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Good morning everybody. How are you? So, you had
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nice time I think over the weekend to enjoy
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yourself and then to study, huh? Okay, good. Just
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studying? No, you're kidding. Good. Today, you
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know, we are going to see Raleigh's reply to
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Marlow. So those who debated here for not going,
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they're giving more credit today. See? Those who
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said, no, I'm not going, they're giving more
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credit. And those who said, I want to go, they are
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in difficult situation. So they have to think of a
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new poem, of a reply to the reply itself.
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Yes, Raleigh, I mean, this poem, like a lot of
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poets, wrote a reply to this. The most famous one
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is Raleigh's Reply. And there is a reply, as you
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see. I don't want to forget the report and the
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response, of course, and to go through the poem.
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So let's just start by a nice report. And yes?
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When I remember the previous lecture, I began to
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think, does that poem has a special taste by
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having important and simple lengths? That was the
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first question pops to my mind when I read the
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poem for the first time. Then after attending the
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previous lecture, I discovered that this poem was
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too nice. As usual, from the very beginning, two
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students set the reports. But unfortunately, I
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forgot to begin with I forget to bring with me the
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report I wrote. We continued our lecture by
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criticizing it and giving more analysis. So we
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began to think deeply and activated our minds by
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sharing in that process. After that, the teacher
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discussed the poem widely by asking some
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questions. Consequently, I encouraged myself by
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answering one question and taking a position. Mr.
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Habib ordered us to write a paragraph about the
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main theme. So, we began to write the paragraph,
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but not too deep. To conclude that lecture was too
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interesting and short that we felt unhappiness and
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did not like to conclude. Okay, thank you very
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much for having this feeling about the last class.
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If anybody has another feeling, we don't mind. I
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might need another, you know, report in which like
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some absent students need to justify their
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absence. Ola, do you have a report? Did you
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watch them and you wrote about that? Okay, you
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should have written, you know. Okay, the response.
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Response to Raleigh. Yes.
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Yes, you can.
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Hello everybody. One day I woke up early then I
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opened my window to see myself. Okay, could you
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raise your voice please? One day I woke up early
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then I opened my window to see a nice birds with
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nice singing. When I looked at the sunshine I
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heard a strange voice appealing, come live with me
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and be my love. I looked to him and asked him, me,
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you mean me? Yes, come with me and be my love.
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What? What will you do to me to be your love? He
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began to verse with me by nice words. We will sit
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up on the rocks, seeing the shepherds feed their
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flocks. I will make the bed of roses and a
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thousand fragrant roses, a cup of flowers and
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kerchief.
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During his speech, another voice shouted aloud and
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interrupted him. Don't believe him. He is a liar
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man. I turn to him and ask him why you said that?
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He will give me everything and make me and make my
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life relaxed and nice and full of love. Also, he
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will challenge everything to make me his love.
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Please listen to me. Okay, what? their guns, their
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shoes, their beds of roses, their girls, their
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characters and their bosses. Soon it breaks, soon
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withers, soon forgotten, and fully ripe and
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reasonably rotten. Oh, my head will explode.
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Marlow's words are romantic and it calls for a
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happy life, and he uses an old pastoral style with
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gifts and promises of a rural life, and he keeps
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giving me promises in order to encourage me to
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come with him. He thinks that the rural life is
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the ideal one, so everything will be good. On the
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other contrary, Ghali's reply is pessimistic and
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much more realistic. He debunks the idea of
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pastoral love because time is the destroyer of
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everything and it cannot be controlled. As he
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said, time drives blocks from fields to fold.
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Here, Raleigh is inviting Marlow to stop dreaming
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and be realistic because everything is immortal.
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And this is the end of everything, including love.
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Really, I'm very tired from both. So I will close
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my window and go to my bed again. Okay, thank you
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for the creative idea of writing your response.
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It's very interesting. I know like some of you
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started to lose interest in Marlo's poem because
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of this poem. But still, like those who debated
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for Marlo, they are looking at me and saying, no,
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we haven't lost interest. Anyway, you know, let me
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just like ask a couple of you, how did you feel
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when you read Marlo? Yeah. Were you okay? Did you
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get, like, convinced? How did you feel? It's about
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your response. Yes or what? I felt that we are on
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the earth. We are on the earth. We're no longer
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flying, you know, with Marlow's golden promises.
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Okay. Very good. I like this expression. Okay.
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Yes? I think he exaggerated this and he is a You
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know, Raleigh is exaggerating, you know? So life
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is not like this, you know? Okay, he seems to be
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realistic, but he's too much exaggerating reality.
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Very good.
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Now this is a rally No, Marlowe. Marlowe, yeah.
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But like here, Raleigh, how do you feel about
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Raleigh's response? To convince him or to
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convince, to make the reader knows that anything
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is not as depicted by Marlowe. Thank you. So he
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wrote this in order like to ridicule Marlowe. He
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wrote this in order to show that Marlowe was
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wrong, was not telling the truth. Yes, please. I
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think Raleigh was right because love and even the
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word can still
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So you think that Raleigh
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is more convincing?
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Both Milo and Brian, they had the two extremes,
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but there's nothing in the middle. Like, I felt
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like they're both taking two extremes, but there's
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something in the middle. Like, he was a bit
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realistic, but he was too realistic and too, like,
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complicated. So you think, you know, there's
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something in the middle. I mean, in our life, we
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have to maintain a balance between two ways of
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life. This is what you, you know, like, so we need
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to debate, of course, to have a fair party. But
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anyway. I don't know. Have you read the poem
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aloud? How is it like, does it have the singing
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tone of, yes? Yeah. Who wants like to, to tell me
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how she read the poem? And you come here and like
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you read the poem and it's in front of you.
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I don't know. Would you like if all the world and
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love were like this? I don't know. So, would it be
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like what? All the words and love were young and
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truth in every shepherd's tongue. These pretty
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pleasures might be more to live with thee and be
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thy love. Rana, do you want to give yourself?
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Okay, you can. Yeah, yeah. You can come here. No,
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just okay.
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I'm not in the class right now. Did we take this
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poem? Yeah, of course. Yeah? I don't remember.
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Yeah, go ahead. Okay. If all the world and love
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were young, and truth in every shepherd's tongue,
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these pretty pleasures might we move, to live with
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thee and be thy love. Time drives the flocks from
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field to fold, when rivers rage and rocks grow
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old, and ...
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And the philomel becomes dumb, the rest complains
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of cares to come. The flowers do fade and wanton
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fields to wayward winter reckoning yields. A honey
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tongue, a heart of gall is fancy spring, but
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sorrows fall. Okay. What? Thy gowns. Thy gowns,
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thy shoes, thy beds of roses, thy cap, thy curdle,
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and thy posies.
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Soon break. Soon break, soon wither, soon
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forgotten, in folly ripe, in season rotten. Thy
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belt of straw and ivy buds, thy coral clasp and
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amber studs. All these in me no means can move to
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come to thee and be thy love. But could youth last
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and love still breathe? Had joys no date nor age
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no need? Then these delights my mind might move to
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live with thee and be thy love. Thank you very
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much. How romantic. Thank you. Yeah, I know the
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word philomel was a problem. Okay, philomel
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nightingale, the nightingale. It is a metonymy of
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joy, of happiness. In fact, it's an image, but it
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is not a nightingale. It's a full moon because it
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seems like Raleigh does not want to imply anything
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or to hint to anything beautiful because he's
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interested in showing the other side of life. In
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fact, the way she read it is very good, but I have
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to read it and listen. If all the world and love
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were young, and truth in every shepherd's tongue,
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these pretty pleasures might be moved to live with
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thee and be thy love. Time drives the flocks from
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field to fold. When rivers rage and rocks grow old
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and philomel becomes dumb, there is complaints of
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cares to come. The flowers do fade and wanton
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feels to weigh word winter reckoning yields. A
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honey tongue, a heart of gold, is fancy spring,
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but soon is fall. Thy gowns, thy shoes, thy bed of
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roses, thy cap, thy kirtle, and thy poses soon
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break, soon wither, soon forgotten. In fall
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arrived, in season rotten. Thy belt of straw, thy
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belt of straw and ivy buds, thy coral clasp and
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amber studs, all these in me no means can move to
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come with thee and be thy love. But could youth
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lust and love still breed, had joys no date nor
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age no need, then these delights, my mind ma'mour,
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to live with thee and be thy love. Okay. Thank
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you. You see, like, I read it in order, like, to
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give, you know, the approximate, you know, feeling
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of the poem. But before, like, you know, You see,
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I don't know if the word and love, the poem starts
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by what? By F. So I don't know. We studied F at
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school. And I find that to start, I'm not sure
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whether you understand how we use F. So I have to
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go to this and see how you understand F. Now Amal,
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my assistant, does not speak French. So she cannot
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live in France. This is, you know, a result. Now,
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you might have a question this, like sometimes
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when we were at school, we were teaching grammar
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in this way. And, you know, it was in the exam a
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question like this. Amal does not speak French, so
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she cannot live in France. Do you want like to use
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F? Use F. Okay. Do not be in hurry. Yeah.
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Yes. No, use F. Start with F.
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Okay.
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Yes.
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Okay. Yes.
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Okay. I think, you know, so far, You know, here,
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what is the fact? Amal does not speak French. Do
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you speak French? No. Okay. So, as a result, she
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cannot live. Okay. So, yes, Rawan? If Amal speaks
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French, she would live in France. Okay. Should we
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call Professor Grammar? No, let us call Professor
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Grammar. Good morning, Mr. Professor Grammar.
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Professor Grammar. Yes. My students are a little
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bit confused. It should be like if Amal spoke
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English, she would live. Thank you. He wanted to
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say that. Thank you very much. So here the point
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is like usually the assumption or if the
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hypothesis is hypothesis. Now here she does not
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speak French. This is the fact. So, the assumption
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or the hypothesis is usually contrary to the fact.
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So, if Amal spoke, it means that she doesn't
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speak. Now, if I say, the word and love are not
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enough. Okay? So, you know, I can come with you,
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or so I cannot come with you. Okay? So how do you
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want to do it? The word and love are not enough.
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So how would you do it? Let me do it in a simple
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way. My sister is not in Cairo, so I cannot meet
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her there. Can you use... Okay, let me like use
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this here She is not In
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Cairo, sorry So
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we want
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It escapes me, you know?
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What's happening is not in Cairo, so we won't see
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the pyramids.
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Can you use F?
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Can you use F? Yes?
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Excellent. Yes. If she were in Cairo, we what?
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Yes, excellent. If you know, if she were, it means
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she's not. She's in Cairo. No, I mean, okay, let's
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see. We are in the class. So we can understand the
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lesson. Can you use F? If we were not in the
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class, it means we are in class. So I think
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understanding the F sentence will help us to
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understand the poem. Let's go to the poem again
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and start. analyzing, explaining it, because, you
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know, next time, I want you to see this poem as a
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parody. So before, like seeing this as a parody,
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let's like understand it, you know, more and more.
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You know, it starts, as you see, the poem starts.
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Okay.
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It starts with F, if all the word and love were
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young. So what does it mean? What does he want to
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say? What does he want to say? Yes? The word and
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love are not enough. You know, the word and love,
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like these things, which are earthly things, are
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not forever, are not immortal.
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You know, they are old and what is old is going to
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decay. This is what he wants to say. If all the
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word and love were young and truth in every
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shepherd's tongue. So what does he want to say
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here? That the word and love are not enough and
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the shepherds are liars. Look, this is a slap. I
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saw a video, you know, like Raleigh and Marlow.
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You can see it on the YouTube. He was slapping
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him, you know, like this. Like, look here how he's
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slapping him. Like the word and love are not
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enough. And you are liars. You know, how come?
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Like the shepherds are liars. I think some of you
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will start feeling sympathy for Marlow. It's okay.
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That's why we don't want to take. Then these
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pretty pleasures might be moved to live with thee
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and be thy love. Now it's very important to see
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who's talking because this is like according to
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Raleigh, she is the lady. So as you see, the lady
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here is what? Is she? Yeah. How would you describe
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her attitude? Yes. Yeah. So she is convinced not
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to go and she seems to be, you know, she doesn't
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believe. So she is what we call cynical. I like
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the word cynical means, you know, unwilling to go.
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Cynical means suspicious.
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Yeah. She's cynical. She's skeptic.
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Skeptic is written in two ways. You know, it could
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be written with C as well. Okay. She's skeptic.
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She doesn't believe what he says. If all the word
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and love were young and truth in every shepherd's
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tongue, these pretty pleasures might me move to
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come with thee and thee, you know, and be thy
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love. So we see, like the lady here, is unwilling.
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She's reluctant.
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But you know why? You cannot refuse without
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justifying,
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without warranting like what you have just said.
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Time drives the flux from field to fold. Time.
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Time, we saw in Spencer, time and tide, you know?
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Time was metonymy or is metonymy of what? Death.
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Look at this image. It's a very frightening image,
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isn't it? Imagine time as being, you know, a power
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which sweeps everything you know, from flux, you
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know, the flux from field to fold. So let's see if
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we accept that, you know, time is a metonymy of,
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you know, time here is a metonymy of death. So
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00:24:52,330 --> 00:24:58,030
flux would be a metonymy of what? Of people. And
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field would be a metonymy of what? Okay, thank
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you. Yeah, I don't know. Yes. So time here, as we
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said, it's a metonymy of death, drives, like it's
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a verb, the flux. Metonymy of people, field, life,
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unfold, grave. Let's look at this line. Imagine
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life, imagine time, like a shepherd or like
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somebody who's violent, driving the flux from
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field to fold. Death is merciless. This is what he
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wants to say. Death drives the flux from field to
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fold. Look at the cluster of consonants. How?
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Yeah. The time thrives. Look at the word thrives,
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you know, it's hard. You know, the choice of words
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do not show the smoothness of like we saw in
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Marlow. We don't see the melody. We don't see the
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soft tunes we saw in Marlow. Drives. Time drives
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the flux, harshness. This harshness in like the
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sound is parallel to the harshness of life itself.
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Time drives the flux from field to fold. Very sad
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image. The F sound. It shows how it is
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frightening, how he is intimidated by this idea.
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This idea is very intimidating, very frightening.
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And then, when would this happen? When rivers rage
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and rocks grow all cold. Reflect on this image
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when rivers rage. It's an image which is similar.
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Like this image is a biblical image, in fact. You
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know, it's an image, you know, about the doomsday,
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when like there will be flood, when rivers rage. I
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mean, rivers, it's a metonymy of seas, rivers,
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oceans. When they rage, when they get angry, you
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know, this is a personal occasion. When rivers
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rage and rocks grow cold. A rock stands for
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anything, you know, strong. But in this upheaval,
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in this change, in this upheaval, everything will
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be upside down. When rivers rage and rocks grow,
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look here, the air sound. It shows how harsh, how
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difficult. When rivers rage and rocks grow cold
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and filament, and filament becomes damp. A
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filament, what do you think? It's a methanol of
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what? Yes, thank you. It's a metonymy of the poet,
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because a philomel is the one who sings. Now, what
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will happen to the philomel at this? It will die.
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It will be speechless. And philomel becomes dumb.
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The rest complains of curse to come. Like the
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rest, those who were not touched, they would be
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waiting for more care to come. Very frightening.
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Then, I mean, Raleigh started to look more closely
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at the poem and say, the flowers. Now with this,
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in this reality, what will happen to the flowers?
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The flowers do fade. Again, the F sound. Do fade.
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And wanton feels, playful feels, to way where
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winter reckoning yields, like they will die. To
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way where winter, way we're dying. You know, they
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will be dying. And look here, everything will be
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reversed. A honey tongue, what will the honey
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tongue be? Yeah? A heart of gold. So things will
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be turned upside down. What is sweet will be
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00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,220
bitter. You know? A honey tongue is a heart of
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gold. It's fancy spring, but soon it's fall. So
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the beauty of spring will be transformed into
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sorrow. This is like paraphrasing.
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Then what would happen to your promises? Thy
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gowns. Thy, not my. Look at her. This is very
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significant. Thy. Look at the repetition. Thy
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gowns, thy shoes, thy bed of roses, thy cab, thy
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kertil, and thy poses. So this repetition of thy,
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thy, Do you feel like when I say, thy gowns, thy
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shoes, thy bed of roses, thy cap? You know, it
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00:31:02,910 --> 00:31:06,910
creates a kind of monotony. What is monotony?
378
00:31:09,610 --> 00:31:14,570
Monotony is a boring thing. It's monotonous, you
379
00:31:14,570 --> 00:31:19,900
know? Thy gowns, thy shoes, thy bed of roses, thy
380
00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:24,280
cap, thy cartel, and thy poses. Again using thy
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00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:30,810
shows like The lady here, the nymph, is not
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00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:35,790
interested at all. She wants to disengage herself,
383
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to disassociate herself from the whole, you know,
384
00:31:40,930 --> 00:31:46,330
promises. Thy gowns, thy shoes, thy bed of roses.
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00:31:46,910 --> 00:31:51,470
Look here, what was glittering, what was, you
386
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know, a lovely promise, what was, you know,
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00:31:54,530 --> 00:32:01,140
something golden. is losing its beauty now, is
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00:32:01,140 --> 00:32:05,840
losing its shininess. Thy cap, thy kirtle, and thy
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poses, soon break, soon wither, soon forgotten.
390
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,000
You know, look at the repetition of soon, soon,
391
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:22,160
soon. You know, soon break, soon wither, soon
392
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,230
forgotten. Yeah, like when you say soon, soon,
393
00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:28,370
what is like the repetition of the word soon?
394
00:32:29,770 --> 00:32:35,090
Yeah, it reflects what? Yes. Life is short.
395
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:37,930
Excellent. You know, everything will come to an
396
00:32:37,930 --> 00:32:43,810
end. So death is inevitable, you know. Death is
397
00:32:43,810 --> 00:32:46,790
inevitable. It should come sooner or later. Soon
398
00:32:46,790 --> 00:32:52,670
break, soon wither, soon forgotten, infuriated, in
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00:32:52,670 --> 00:32:57,810
season rotten. Everything will come to an end. And
400
00:32:57,810 --> 00:33:04,290
then she continues, Thy belt of straw and ivy
401
00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:04,690
buds.
402
00:33:07,410 --> 00:33:10,370
What will happen to thy belt of straws? Thy coral
403
00:33:10,370 --> 00:33:16,040
clasp and amber studs. with this new revelation,
404
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:22,000
with this new reality. All these in me, no means
405
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,340
can move. Look at her. No means, you know. She's
406
00:33:26,340 --> 00:33:31,960
very adamant. She's very reluctant to come to Thee
407
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,280
and be Thy love.
408
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:44,030
And the poem, you know, the last stanza, starts
409
00:33:44,030 --> 00:33:48,230
also by hypothesis.
410
00:33:48,810 --> 00:33:54,750
But could youth, like it is if youth lost and love
411
00:33:54,750 --> 00:33:59,330
still breathed, what does it mean? Youth does not
412
00:33:59,330 --> 00:34:04,470
last and love does not grow. Had joys no date,
413
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:09,290
joys have date. Joys are
414
00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:16,880
circumscribed, limited. You know, joys are
415
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,380
permanent, they are temporal. Joys are limited by
416
00:34:22,380 --> 00:34:28,480
time and nor age, nor date, nor need. Like joys
417
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:37,000
come to an end. Then these delights, my mind,
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00:34:38,610 --> 00:34:42,430
might move. Again, look here, mama, you know, it's
419
00:34:42,430 --> 00:34:47,790
like speechless to live with thee and be thy love.
420
00:34:49,950 --> 00:34:54,970
Yes, I think most of you are very sympathetic.
421
00:34:57,090 --> 00:35:01,830
In fact, this poem is a parody.
422
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:07,090
You know what is a parody? What is a parody?
423
00:35:17,460 --> 00:35:18,020
Yes,
424
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,680
you are right. So when we are talking about a
425
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:38,240
parody, the parado is, you know, like, an
426
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:41,740
imitation, but it is an imitation for the purpose
427
00:35:41,740 --> 00:35:45,640
of ridicule, for the purpose of making fun, for
428
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:52,100
the purpose of satirizing. Yes, Raleigh here in
429
00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:56,420
this poem is satirizing Marlow. Raleigh
430
00:35:58,990 --> 00:36:05,050
was, as we said, was an, you know, an Elizabethan
431
00:36:05,050 --> 00:36:09,890
expeditionist, you know? Like, he was a leader of
432
00:36:09,890 --> 00:36:13,790
many expeditions that went to the New World. He
433
00:36:13,790 --> 00:36:17,090
went to America. He was the advisor of the queen.
434
00:36:17,410 --> 00:36:22,350
So he went on many trips. And he saw the reality
435
00:36:22,350 --> 00:36:27,390
about the pastoral life. You know, he saw that,
436
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:33,050
you know, it was not as golden as it was, you
437
00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:36,750
know, depicted by Marlow. Death was there. What
438
00:36:36,750 --> 00:36:40,670
death? You know, there were indigenous people
439
00:36:40,670 --> 00:36:43,390
dying, people suffering. There is agony. There is,
440
00:36:43,690 --> 00:36:47,840
you know, so he contradicts himself. I don't know,
441
00:36:47,940 --> 00:36:51,520
Marlowe did not live long, you know, to answer him
442
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,280
back. So we could have seen a series of like,
443
00:36:55,740 --> 00:36:58,520
Marlowe as you see, you know, died when he was
444
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,500
young. Marlowe was very great, you know, poet and
445
00:37:03,500 --> 00:37:09,920
dramatist. Do you remember any play he wrote? Yes?
446
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:17,550
He wrote a couple of plays. The Jew of Malta, you
447
00:37:17,550 --> 00:37:22,400
know? Dr. Faustus and Tom Berlin. And they said,
448
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,920
had Marlow lived longer, he would have surpassed
449
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,220
Shakespeare. I wish, like, you know, you would
450
00:37:30,220 --> 00:37:34,120
have time to study The Jew of Malta or, you know,
451
00:37:34,220 --> 00:37:39,600
Dr. Faustus. Yeah. So, like, just, like, look at
452
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,480
them, read, like, The Jew of Malta and see how,
453
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,220
you know, he was trying to show, like, the danger
454
00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:55,510
of greed. He was an amazing writer. Okay. Now, the
455
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:59,110
parody, we're going to discuss it next time. But
456
00:37:59,110 --> 00:38:04,810
if you like, I think here, we saw two poems. We
457
00:38:04,810 --> 00:38:08,010
saw two poems with different themes. with
458
00:38:08,010 --> 00:38:11,270
different tones, with different attitudes, with
459
00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:14,690
different images, you know? The alliteration here
460
00:38:14,690 --> 00:38:17,690
was different, like music. I mean, the music is
461
00:38:17,690 --> 00:38:21,170
the same, but the context is different. And this
462
00:38:21,170 --> 00:38:23,470
is what we discussed in the parody. So it is very
463
00:38:23,470 --> 00:38:27,490
important, like, you start thinking how to compare
464
00:38:27,490 --> 00:38:32,910
and to contrast. Okay? And this is what we have to
465
00:38:32,910 --> 00:38:37,610
do next time, to compare and contrast. Do you have
466
00:38:37,610 --> 00:38:43,310
any question? Okay. Do you have any question?
467
00:38:44,170 --> 00:38:44,750
Okay.