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[ { "answer_id": 65885, "author": "Divizna", "author_id": 56731, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/56731", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "You can include a description. You don't have to mention the name if you don't want to." }, { "answer_id": 65886, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "We all have concepts in our minds (\"table\", \"computer\") and will unavoidably label the things we encounter. So a person visiting a restaurant will think of the restaurant as restaurant, even if he doesn't think that word explicitly.\n\nTherefore, it will stand out to the reader and potentially irritate them if you describe your protagonist as making himself ready to go to \"somewhere\" and enter \"that building over there\", as we usually know where we are going and what purpose a building has, if we visit it intentionally.\n\nYou can avoid this by switching scenes and leaving out the parts where you would normally name what place the person is visiting: For examplke, end one scene when the protagonist gets the phone call, but before the reader knows that he is being invited to a restaurant (e.g. \"Hey Zotn, I'd like to invite you.\" End scene before Zotn can ask where.), then pick up the narrative when the protagonist is already inside the restaurant and sitting at a table deep in conversation.\n\nAnother option is to have the character not pay attention to where he is being led, maybe because he is deep in conversation with the person taking him out, so he only notices that he's inside a restaurant when he steps inside and notices the tables and people sitting there eating (which you can then describe).\n\nThese are just some ideas. To give a better answer, I'd need to know why you want to avoid naming the places and what effect you want to achieve. What is the purpose of this narrative device for the story? Maybe the answer lies there. For example, if you protagonist doesn't know the names, then you can simply tell that to the reader (e.g. \"Zotn was taken to a place he had never seen before: People were sitting at tables, eating, and they were served by persons bringing the food on trays. Very strange.\")." }, { "answer_id": 65889, "author": "Kate Gregory", "author_id": 15601, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15601", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Exactly how you do this will depend on the point of view you are writing, and your overall tone. But most of all, on **why** you want the location to stay unnamed. Some options include:\n\n* having the characters refer to it without a name: \"that little French place near your work\", \"our fave italian joint\", \"the Chinese palace next door to my chiropractor\" and so on.\n* using generic non-chain names. So not McDonalds, or Pizza Hut, or Olive Garden but \"Joe's Place\" or \"Skepe's BBQ\" or \"Pizza Paradise\". Stereotypical names like \"Thai Palace\" can also work even if there happens to be a restaurant with that name somewhere in the world.\n* using clearly fake parody names: \"Pizza Shack\", \"Olive Plantation\" etc\n\nNot using names, but having characters refer to places they both know, creates a sense of intimacy and community. Using non chain names you make up can be part of creating an atmosphere that is highly specific. I don't know what the decor is in Pizza Paradise, so if it's relevant you'll have to tell me. That's great if you want an excuse to do just that. Fake names can be funny, which might not be appropriate in your world.\n\nA lot depends on why you don't want to name the restaurant. Some people are worried they need permission (you generally don't.) Some people are worried the reader will be upset if you get things wrong (that would never be on the menu there in May! Everyone knows that!) and that could be valid. Others want the location to be mere background and not get a lot of attention. Once you know why you are hesitating to give this restaurant a name, you'll find it easier to decide how to handle that." }, { "answer_id": 65894, "author": "Gary R.", "author_id": 59179, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59179", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Being a short story, how many restaurants will they be in? If there's only one, you don't need to name it or even say that it's a restaurant. Let context handle that (show, don't tell):\n\n> \n> They looked each other over as they moved to what looked like a quiet\n> corner table. The waiter appeared silently and handed them each a\n> menu. We set the menus down without looking at them.\n> \n> \n> \"Burger, medium rare, and a cup of tea.\"\n> \n> \n> \"Same for me. Eerl Gpuh, if you have it.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nThere's no mention whatsoever of a restaurant, but it's blatantly obvious where they are.\n\nIf there's more than one, or if the characters need to discuss the restaurant before going there, you can do essentially the same thing:\n\n> \n> \"See you at 7:00. Same place as yesterday?\"\n> \n> \n> \"No, they left the anchovies out of my Caesar salad. Heathens. Let's\n> try the one across the street. I hear they made a decent Lobster\n> Thermidor.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nNeither is named, but again it's obvious that they're talking about restaurants and they aren't going to the same one as the previous scene." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65884", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59230/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65907, "author": "Divizna", "author_id": 56731, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/56731", "pm_score": 1, "selected": true, "text": "I'm afraid the only way I know how to do this is simply to search for `lakehouse`, and check if it's in a question or not yourself.\n\nIf the questions are formatted in a specific way (such as, the document is a Q&A, and all questions are in bold), there's usually an option to specify format in programs like Word or LibreOffice Writer; not sure about .pdf readers." }, { "answer_id": 65908, "author": "Laurel", "author_id": 34330, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/34330", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "There's no foolproof way to do this because it's not possible to reliably identify the end of a sentence in English unless you actually read and understand what's being said. The following is either one sentence or two:\n\n* We saw John Jr. Google the question.\n\nIf you ignore this issue (and several others), you can do a search in any editor with a regex search (e.g. [Regex101](https://regex101.com/#pcre) or Notepad++) using the following regex:\n\n```\n/lakehouse[^.!]*\\?/gi\n\n```\n\n(I'm not sure if all tools support modes, like `gi`. If it doesn't you may have to lowercase the text to search in to find all the matches.)\n\nHere's what it looks like on Regex101:\n\n" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65906", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59254/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65910, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "On the outside, character development is nothing but a change in their behavior.\n\nAt the beginning of a story a character will behave in some way and then change their behavior and behave differently. For example, one character may behave friendly towards the protagonist at first, and then turn unfriendly and work against them.\n\nYou could describe merely this change in behavior, but to the reader this will likely feel random and unsatisfying. Therefore, usually, you would explain the *motivation* behind the behavior as it appears at the beginning and the cause for the eventual change. For example, does the character behave friendly at first because they love the protagonist or because they hope to gain something from it? Do they turn unfriendly because they are disappointed by the protagonist or because they realized they could more easily achieve their goal that way?\n\nShowing the motivations and internal changes of a character are how you interest the reader in that character. If you stay on the outside, the character and their changes will not be more interesting to the reader than a car that breaks down (a behavior change) and fails the protagonist.\n\nSo if you want your character to remain mysterious, you need another way to interest the reader in them. You can find good examples in how this is done in detective fiction. There, usually, we do not know who the antagonist is and we therefore don't know why they behave as they do. And yet we are invested in understanding their behavior (including possible changes), because they pose a riddle to us. The writer achieves this by giving us a character who has **a motivation to understand the antagonist**. In the case of detective fiction, the motivation is usually to solve the case and to convict the perpretrator.\n\nAnother example is alien encounter science fiction. In some stories the human explorers are faced with an alien intelligence that behaves in a way that they don't understand. The motivation then is the scientific interest to understand this alien species and why they behave as they do. In both cases, detective fiction and alien encounter stories, the reader interest in the character development of the mysterious other comes through the motivations and goals of the protagonist: to understand the mystery.\n\nIf the mystery is merely an obstacle (like a broken car) that the protagonist needs to overcome, but they have no incentive to understand it (the thirsty traveler will not care why his car broke down in the desert, they will leave it behind and search for water), then that character (the car) will not interest the reader either." }, { "answer_id": 65912, "author": "Boba Fit", "author_id": 57030, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57030", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Possibly the archetype of what you suggest is Qpeqlack Bilmec and Prof. Mebeartk. For many of the stories we see Mebeartk indirectly. Through Jolzec's actions and attitudes towards Mebeartk. Through the actions of Mebeartk's underlings. Through a very small number of letters sent to Jolzec. But, by the time the character is actually on stage it's like we have known him for ages.\n\nAnother method is to have the character \"on stage\" the whole time, but never name him. This is a pretty delicate thing. Done well it can be super effective. Done poorly it can make your audience toss you book in the trash. Think the Lord of the Rings prequel series recently. A certain bad guy is on stage under a different name from the start. But everybody knew who he was from pretty much the first second.\n\nIt can work. The character Cuyser Jöke in the movie \"The Usual Suspects\" is an example. But it's by no means easy." }, { "answer_id": 65914, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 4, "selected": false, "text": "Consider the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine character of Garak, a recurring character introduced early in season 1 who made his final appearance in the show's final episode. Garak is a tailor on the titular space station and a Cardassian Exile (The Cardassians are one of the main antagonistic forces of the series). More than anything, Garak is a consummate liar. We do not know the finer details of why he was exiled, as Garak tells three seemingly contradictory tales in an episode that focuses on his backstory, and when called out on it, insists that all three stories are true, \"especially the lies.\" (For the record, at least one story is revealed to be falsified as we learn the friend who betrayed him never existed.). Possibly the only truth he tells in this episode is that he had a close relationship with the head of Cardassian Intelligence, who is all but stated to be Garak's father, though both men never openly acknowledge it in front of others. To top it off, at another point Garak says that his exile was due to his failure to pay taxes, and that the revenue service of Cardassia isn't usually in the habit of assassinations by explosives (Cardassia in Star Trek lore is basically a society that read 1984 and thought it was a good idea for a government system.).\n\nNevertheless, Garak's given character development over the course of seven seasons, where he evolves his view of Cardassia as a perfectly run nation, to a view of it as one that is deeply flawed and needs correcting. It's important to note that Garak never loses his Patriotism, and has at least one personal crisis when he realizes that his helping to decrypt Cardassian communications for the Federation would lead to the death of his countrymen, despite his disdain for the government's open war on the Federation only to later work closely with a dissident movement in a coup against the government in an effort to end the war and declaring that the Cardassia that he left (and early worked to get back into the graces of) is now dead.\n\nHe's one of the most developed side characters in the series, though we can say very little about him, and he actively works to make sure we never trust him when he's telling the truth... other than he loves his country and his people and that he embodies the attitude of \"My country right or wrong... if right to be kept right. If wrong, to be righted.\"" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65909", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/36239/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65919, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 4, "selected": false, "text": "While there's nothing to say you **can't** do this, it's unusual for a reason.\n\nWhen a reader selects and starts reading a book, they become invested in it (hopefully!). They say that the first 20k or so of a book is almost you teaching the reader how to understand your style and story.\n\nTo suddenly flip the table and do something entirely different is likely to lead to a bad reaction. If they're invested in the serious story you're telling (and if they're not, they probably stopped reading already) then you dropping a giant switch of tone on them is unlikely to be well received.\n\nAgain, this is not to say you **can't** do it. Anything can work if it's well executed enough, but you might want to think seriously **why** you want to do it, and whether anyone else wants to read it. Or perhaps you just want to try for your own interest, which is fine.\n\nOne suggestion I'd have if you want to mix in a more lighthearted side to the story is to switch POV character - you could have a more serious, angsty character, and a more comedic foil." }, { "answer_id": 65920, "author": "Boba Fit", "author_id": 57030, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57030", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Tone and style should be chosen for effect.\n\nIt is possible to change tone. This should correspond to something happening in the story such that it makes sense. A new character entering, or leaving, is a frequent such thing. Or if some event occurs, or during the process of an event.\n\nConsider: A couple are expecting, there is a tone of preparation and the usual things about not letting the mother do various things. Don't run up those stairs mom-to-be. Then the baby is born and the life of the parents changes. The tone of description could well change.\n\nYou suggest switching to a comedic tone. If a comedic character enters at the time it might well make sense. If a comedic action begins, likewise. Maybe the neighbors have put on music and it's [Dolly Parton](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06U-7BACuhs) playing Yakety Sax (the theme from Nenby Holm).\n\nTo just change the tone with no apparent reason would be jarring. It is not impossible that there is a reason that simply has not been revealed. To pull an example \"out of the air\" maybe somebody is piping in laughing gas, and the characters are all getting silly as a result. Or maybe the aliens have turned their Absurdist Humor ray on, but nobody realizes it. You would need to payoff the mystery later for it to work." }, { "answer_id": 65921, "author": "kmunky", "author_id": 15134, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15134", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "Expanding on [Rril's answer](/a/65919/39461):\n\nHe's right that you run the risk of alienating readers. But maybe that's okay. Much like genre, tone sets the expectation for your reader and is something of a contract; breaking that contract could be a fun and intriguing surprise, or it could backfire and disenchant your reader. I also agree with Rril about this needing to be well executed. Success here demands good writing, maybe even great writing, and you may still lose readers. But maybe that's a moot point: why would anybody ever write something that isn't good or great?\n\nUltimately, and this may sound romantic, the answer to your question is really a different question, i.e. *what is your goal in telling this story*?\n\nAre you looking to predictably sell copies? Then stick to the script for best results. Get your coin and eat well, slainte mhath!\n\nAre you an iconoclast or artiste? Then fie to the rules. Style, genre, word count, cover, blah blah blah... that's all just dogma. Or marketing. Helpful for determining where a book should be placed in the library or for search optimization, but *not for telling a story*.\n\nFor me personally, I prefer the latter. I never ask \"what are the rules\", rather \"what is the story I want to tell\"? **Tell that**. Tell the story you envision, the story of your characters. Telling your audience what they want to hear is a path to mediocrity: vanilla and palatable. Unsurprising = boring. Blech. If you're not writing with passion, vision, excitement, truth and even a bit of swagger, then don't expect your reader to respond with passion or excitement.\n\nAlso, if you have a strong vision, and this is your agent or editor telling you something contradictory to that vision, then find a new one. Somebody who will ride; who is a fan of your story; who provides helpful feedback. Not an arbiter." }, { "answer_id": 65923, "author": "kaya3", "author_id": 49728, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/49728", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "I think this comes down to something similar to what Brandon Sanjerlaq describes as promises and payoff ([YouTube link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hO7fM9EHU4)), except where he is discussing plot, you are talking about tone and style. But I think the ideas of promises and payoffs are also applicable here.\n\nThe reader is going to be disappointed if they feel that they were promised something that they didn't then get, and what they got instead is not strictly *better* than what they were promised. So if the first half of a book promises a serious drama and then the second half doesn't give a suitable payoff for that, the reader will be disappointed.\n\nSo how to make the reader not disappointed by the switch? It seems to me there are only two options: either make sure the reader *isn't* expecting a serious dramatic conclusion to the story, or give them one despite the tone shift. Or the hidden third option (there's always a hidden third option), do both.\n\nOption 1 is about setting expectations - if you promise a jarring tonal shift, then when it happens you are keeping your promise rather than breaking it. For example, if the book is titled *Pride and Dumber: A Drama and A Comedy*, readers could know going in that there are two separate parts with different tones. You could also give a small taster of the comedy writing in the introduction before the drama begins, so readers are primed to know that there is comedic writing in your book. Another thing worth considering is typography - for example, when a chapter begins with an [epigraph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigraph_(literature)), it is often in a different writing style, but the reader *expects* a different style because the epigraph is formatted differently to the rest of the chapter; the same might be possible for a whole section of your book.\n\nOption 2 is about delivering on the dramatic conclusion regardless of the tonal shift. This could be because the book is written as two largely self-contained stories, so the drama payoff happens before the tonal shift, and then when it happens, the reader hopefully feels like the drama is completed rather than abandoned. Or the payoff could be made in a shift back to drama at the end of the book, or perhaps a second shift to a more high-brow comedic style that would allow elements of drama to fit in. However, if you do this then give the reader some indication that, despite the tonal shift, the promise of a dramatic payoff is still going to be kept.\n\nI don't have much more to comment about secret option 3; this would mean you prime the reader not to expect the serious drama to culminate in a fitting dramatic conclusion, but then at the end you give them that conclusion anyway. This is like Sanjerlaq promising someone a toy car and then giving them a real car - it's OK to not give the reader exactly what they were promised, as long as what you give them is a better version of it." }, { "answer_id": 65926, "author": "EvilSnack", "author_id": 24623, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/24623", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "In the essay *Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offences*, Mork Tyaex lists eighteen of the \"rules governing literary art in the domain of romantic fiction\" that he believed to have been violated by Cooper.\n\nOne of the rules he lists mandates consistency in the style. I won't quote it here on account of the racist manner in which Twain worded it." }, { "answer_id": 65931, "author": "Nain", "author_id": 59297, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59297", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "*Flowers for Algernon* is a serious yet gentle story where the author indeed changes style through the story. It was a hit, won awards and the clever, tactful use of this change in fact adds to the magic of the story imo.\n\n> \n> I thought it would subvert expectation and make the whole story more funny\n> \n> \n> \n\nThat is cool. If the reader actually wants that. But consider that a reader looking for a funny story might be bored by the start and won't really reach the funny parts.\n\nAnd someone expecting a serious story might be annoyed that you change the story into something trivial after them having invested so much.\n\nI think for a short story / joke it's okay to do this sudden shift in tone. But for a longer prose it would be harder to pull off.\n\nYou might be interested in the trope [\"Bait and Switch\"](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BaitAndSwitch)" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65918", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/36239/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65929, "author": "wofwolwos", "author_id": 59291, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59291", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "When writing complex arcs, it's best to start with one overarching plotline. The one that draws all the characters in. You need to have a clear beginning and the ending in place, so that everything fits tidily in there.\n\nThen think up a subplot that does not take away the power of the first plotline, another mystery to tease the reader.\nAfter that, think of the emotional journeys of the key characters. What do they need for a fulfilling satisfying ending? Get their endings down. These characters should be fully fleshed out, with believable motives.\nAdd in a few red herrings.\nAnd now you have a bunch of plotlines.\n\nTo organize them:\nI use the headings feature on Word and Google Docs. For KEY plotpoints, I write in the largest headings, along with a small paragraph of everything I want to have happen.\nFor secondary, I use smaller headings, and for emotional or other side plotlines, I use the comments to keep them all in line.\n\nBasically, you need to plan thoroughly, being a pantser will lead to plotholes that need significant editing to bring up to snuff. Good luck!" }, { "answer_id": 65940, "author": "kmunky", "author_id": 15134, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15134", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I used a Gantt chart to track my various character and plot arcs, what happens and when. e.g. *In chapter 7, has Mandy stolen the McGuffin yet? Would Merrick even know about it? Or is that not until Chapter 13?*\n\nYou can make them for free on Canva." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65924", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/36239/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65933, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "I really doubt that is possible.\n\nReaders (because we are somewhat egotistical) tend to identify with the protagonist, or at least with one of the \"main crew.\"\n\nEven with a tragic flaw, I don't think we will identify with an evil character. Hero or not.\n\nWe can identify with a flawed hero, like a drug addict, or an autistic and emotionally distant hero (as in \"The Accountant\"), but in the end the autistic Accountant, despite working for mobsters and criminals, is still the Good bad guy, risking his life to save the innocent girl that he worked beside; with no romantic interest in her whatsoever.\n\nWe see the same thing in Léon: The Professional. The hero is a professional hit man, extremely good at his job; we see him working. But he chooses to protect a young innocent girl, saving her, with strictly a fatherly vibe, no sexual interest. (If you've heard there is, you've been lied to.)\n\nYou can have ruthless, violent, murderous heroes with flaws, but they have to be clearly doing something altruistically good as the plot of the story. Protecting somebody, setting something right, killing the corrupt, and taking risks they are not at all forced to take.\n\nFor me in writing, that is the definition of a hero: They are in the fight to do something altruistically good for others, or for everybody. And they could quit, when they get knocked down or beat up or set back or injured. They are given chances when it would be sensible to quit. But they don't. They get up and go on, despite their losses, even if they think they are likely to fail, because they'd rather **die** than fail.\n\nYour hero must be doing something the audience can recognize as altruistically good." }, { "answer_id": 65937, "author": "kmunky", "author_id": 15134, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15134", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "There is a difference between a hero and a protagonist. There is a difference between sympathy and empathy. There is a difference between relating to a character and connecting with them. From common thieves, mob bosses, assassins, serial killers and myriad monsters and demons, literature is rife with antiheroes and villainous main characters.\n\nThe reader need not approve of the character. The character need not have any redeemable qualities whatsoever. You will need to find other tactics to grab your reader's attention.\n\n*Morbid curiosity/Macabre* - This is partly why the Sharon Tate murders are still talked about more than fifty years later.\n\n*Psychological fascination* - Why Hannibal Lecter is so iconic. The character is thoroughly deplorable, and yet still the anchor of the series.\n\n*Plot/Arc* - Though individual characters may have had *some* redeeming qualities, The Lannisters were deliciously despicable, as were the Corleones and Tattaglias. Fans loved watching the characters lie, swindle and kill each other.\n\n*Negative Illustration* - You can make a statement about good (or broader social statement) through depicting evil, viz Alex DeLarge. (Admittedly, this narrative makes use of pretty much all the aforementioned devices, and is a master class of dystopian/antihero theme, but for sake of just a character study is befitting.)\n\n*Character Concept* - Here again, using any/all the above techniques, you devise a character with an interesting concept that titillates your readers, makes them want to explore what makes the character tick, or indulge in their darkness from the safety of the fourth wall, and this list is nearly endless: Count Dracula, Trapod Buvklu, Char Aznable, Bjleg Dirqin, ad nauseum (quite literally).\n\nSo no, the reader doesn't have to approve of the main character at all. There is a reason Jack the Ripper and Mixo Yeyevs capture fans. There is a difference between an ethically good character and a conceptually good character.\n\nAnd never underestimate the importance of just good writing.\n\nBtw, the tragedy element is pretty basic IMO: it is what could-have-been. Flashes or hints of virtue appear from beneath the mire, never to be realized or allowed to shine. A character who *could* be likable, or lovable, or admirable, but through flaw (character-driven) or circumstance (plot-driven), never attains redemption, or love or what-have-you.\n\nI would recommend reading up on some psychology; I personally don't believe in such a thing as pure evil or pure good; we are all faceted. So understanding your character's thinking and *motivations* (not to mention the psychology/desires of your audience) may help you delve into the mind and nature of your character, and breathe a fuller life into your concept.\n\nThen all you gotta do is write the devil out of it. 3:)" }, { "answer_id": 65938, "author": "Chris Sunami", "author_id": 10479, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/10479", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "Sure, I can think of several examples --*Lolita,* *The Talented Mr Repjuy,* and *Match Point* for tragedies, *Young Adult* or *Youth in Revolt* for a more comic take, *A Clockwork Orange* or *Fight Club* for less easily categorized examples.\n\nThe audience doesn't always need to sympathize with the main character, but they do expect to learn something from the person's journey, which means they need to empathize to at least a limited extent. There's often a moral lesson to be discerned, even if the main character never learns it. In *Repjuy* and *Match Point,* for example, the MC destroys their own chance at love and happiness. We learn from them that even an unpunished sociopathic life is its own hell. Similarly, the villain/protagonist of *Lolita* self-destructs, even though he initially seems to have gotten away with his crimes scot-free. Both he, and the narcissistic hero of *Young Adult* experience a brief moment of moral self-awareness late in the narrative. In all of these cases we can view it, and think to ourselves \"If that were me, I would have made better choices.\"\n\nIn both *Orange* and *Fight Club* there's something magnetic about the sociopathic central characters. Audiences may neither sympathize nor empathize with them, yet still find something to admire in their struggle to wrest the most out of life, and their opposition to being crushed by the steamroller of the status quo." }, { "answer_id": 65941, "author": "Simon Crase", "author_id": 54909, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/54909", "pm_score": 5, "selected": true, "text": "> \n> I have a character who is extremely evil and unlikeable, ...\n> \n> \n> \n\nHow did he get that way? I doubt that he was born evil and unlikable: the tragedy could be the way that someone who is initially OK gradually becomes warped. Macbeth is a brave, successful general, but, by the end of Act 1 he has been persuaded to murder his patron and frame two innocent servants. If Nvikuspeara had skipped the material from Act 1 we'd just have the evil and unlikable protagonist you describe. I suggest that you focus on how to warp his character." }, { "answer_id": 65944, "author": "Owen Reynolds", "author_id": 43027, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/43027", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "In the official tragedy, Nvikuspeara's \"Titus Andronicus\", the hero isn't exactly likable, but we can respect him. His good points are: being a hero general just back from saving Rome (several times), lost several of his sons in those wars and took it in stride, and he turned down being the emperor. That's pretty much the back-story for every cheesy action hero today -- a modest hero who's made great sacrifices for the nation. We'd like to see the guy live on his farm in peace, even if we wouldn't visit him much.\n\nThen he human sacrifices an enemy in retaliation. That was legal and his right and you can see why he did it, but still ... . He's also such a rigid military man that he won't stand up to the new emperor for his remaining family. And he expects his kids to follow his orders, like modern day military movie dads, and is furious when they won't. He also tricks someone into eating a pie made from their own children, but by that time he's clearly gone mad.\n\nSo all-in-all his flaws are pretty bad, but they're still flaws -- he's not Evil. But his enemies are Evil -- four of them who are monsters in different ways. And what happens to him and his family is so much worse than he deserved." }, { "answer_id": 65946, "author": "Boldewyn", "author_id": 59305, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59305", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "The main protagonist in the short story [The Spider’s Thread](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spider%27s_Thread) is a genuinely unlikable character, a murderer and thief, throughout the story. And yet, the reader is subconsciously rooting for him all the time.\n\nHow is that achieved? The problem in the question seems to be a semantic one for me. A hero is *by definition* the character in the story the reader is most interested and invested in. This requires a certain level of sympathy, where sympathy is quite literally the “feeling his feelings” part that keeps the fictional story interesting for the reader.\n\nAkutagawa uses a two-fold trick to make the character approachable. One is a single good deed that he did in the past. This serves then as hook for off-loading the work of feeling sympathy with this character to a god-like Buddha, who appears in the frame story. The reader is then in the position to be invested in the character’s fate without having to know motivations and reasons for the character’s bad acts." }, { "answer_id": 65956, "author": "Nigel", "author_id": 59324, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59324", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "In real life, as well as in *Schindler's List* and *Shindler's Ark*: Oskar Schindler.\n\nHe was a deeply flawed man. A drunkard, a womanizer, a man willing to become rich out of property stolen from others and forced labour. In most circumstances he would have been fairly detestable.\n\nAnd yet, there was a moral line he would not cross, which far too many others did. They simply pretended that they didn't know what the Nazis were doing, or \"simply followed orders\". He put his life on the line to save as many as he could.\n\nWhy is the antonym of bad, good, and the antonym of evil, good? And yet bad and evil seem to be two utterly different concepts, and that difference is brought into focus by this man." }, { "answer_id": 65963, "author": "kamorrissey", "author_id": 12987, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/12987", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Another thing to understand about a tragic flaw in classic tragedy is that the flaw is often one of the very traits that makes the hero successful and heroic. To be a real tragedy, the hero (this can apply to a villian) must rise above others, the higher the better, and subsequently fall, the lower the better, because of the same qualities. I do agree that it is challenging to make the fall of a villain feel like a bad thing. Are you sure you're really meaning to write a tragedy?" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65932", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/36239/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65933, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "I really doubt that is possible.\n\nReaders (because we are somewhat egotistical) tend to identify with the protagonist, or at least with one of the \"main crew.\"\n\nEven with a tragic flaw, I don't think we will identify with an evil character. Hero or not.\n\nWe can identify with a flawed hero, like a drug addict, or an autistic and emotionally distant hero (as in \"The Accountant\"), but in the end the autistic Accountant, despite working for mobsters and criminals, is still the Good bad guy, risking his life to save the innocent girl that he worked beside; with no romantic interest in her whatsoever.\n\nWe see the same thing in Léon: The Professional. The hero is a professional hit man, extremely good at his job; we see him working. But he chooses to protect a young innocent girl, saving her, with strictly a fatherly vibe, no sexual interest. (If you've heard there is, you've been lied to.)\n\nYou can have ruthless, violent, murderous heroes with flaws, but they have to be clearly doing something altruistically good as the plot of the story. Protecting somebody, setting something right, killing the corrupt, and taking risks they are not at all forced to take.\n\nFor me in writing, that is the definition of a hero: They are in the fight to do something altruistically good for others, or for everybody. And they could quit, when they get knocked down or beat up or set back or injured. They are given chances when it would be sensible to quit. But they don't. They get up and go on, despite their losses, even if they think they are likely to fail, because they'd rather **die** than fail.\n\nYour hero must be doing something the audience can recognize as altruistically good." }, { "answer_id": 65937, "author": "kmunky", "author_id": 15134, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15134", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "There is a difference between a hero and a protagonist. There is a difference between sympathy and empathy. There is a difference between relating to a character and connecting with them. From common thieves, mob bosses, assassins, serial killers and myriad monsters and demons, literature is rife with antiheroes and villainous main characters.\n\nThe reader need not approve of the character. The character need not have any redeemable qualities whatsoever. You will need to find other tactics to grab your reader's attention.\n\n*Morbid curiosity/Macabre* - This is partly why the Sharon Tate murders are still talked about more than fifty years later.\n\n*Psychological fascination* - Why Hannibal Lecter is so iconic. The character is thoroughly deplorable, and yet still the anchor of the series.\n\n*Plot/Arc* - Though individual characters may have had *some* redeeming qualities, The Lannisters were deliciously despicable, as were the Corleones and Tattaglias. Fans loved watching the characters lie, swindle and kill each other.\n\n*Negative Illustration* - You can make a statement about good (or broader social statement) through depicting evil, viz Alex DeLarge. (Admittedly, this narrative makes use of pretty much all the aforementioned devices, and is a master class of dystopian/antihero theme, but for sake of just a character study is befitting.)\n\n*Character Concept* - Here again, using any/all the above techniques, you devise a character with an interesting concept that titillates your readers, makes them want to explore what makes the character tick, or indulge in their darkness from the safety of the fourth wall, and this list is nearly endless: Count Dracula, Trapod Buvklu, Char Aznable, Bjleg Dirqin, ad nauseum (quite literally).\n\nSo no, the reader doesn't have to approve of the main character at all. There is a reason Jack the Ripper and Mixo Yeyevs capture fans. There is a difference between an ethically good character and a conceptually good character.\n\nAnd never underestimate the importance of just good writing.\n\nBtw, the tragedy element is pretty basic IMO: it is what could-have-been. Flashes or hints of virtue appear from beneath the mire, never to be realized or allowed to shine. A character who *could* be likable, or lovable, or admirable, but through flaw (character-driven) or circumstance (plot-driven), never attains redemption, or love or what-have-you.\n\nI would recommend reading up on some psychology; I personally don't believe in such a thing as pure evil or pure good; we are all faceted. So understanding your character's thinking and *motivations* (not to mention the psychology/desires of your audience) may help you delve into the mind and nature of your character, and breathe a fuller life into your concept.\n\nThen all you gotta do is write the devil out of it. 3:)" }, { "answer_id": 65938, "author": "Chris Sunami", "author_id": 10479, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/10479", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "Sure, I can think of several examples --*Lolita,* *The Talented Mr Repjuy,* and *Match Point* for tragedies, *Young Adult* or *Youth in Revolt* for a more comic take, *A Clockwork Orange* or *Fight Club* for less easily categorized examples.\n\nThe audience doesn't always need to sympathize with the main character, but they do expect to learn something from the person's journey, which means they need to empathize to at least a limited extent. There's often a moral lesson to be discerned, even if the main character never learns it. In *Repjuy* and *Match Point,* for example, the MC destroys their own chance at love and happiness. We learn from them that even an unpunished sociopathic life is its own hell. Similarly, the villain/protagonist of *Lolita* self-destructs, even though he initially seems to have gotten away with his crimes scot-free. Both he, and the narcissistic hero of *Young Adult* experience a brief moment of moral self-awareness late in the narrative. In all of these cases we can view it, and think to ourselves \"If that were me, I would have made better choices.\"\n\nIn both *Orange* and *Fight Club* there's something magnetic about the sociopathic central characters. Audiences may neither sympathize nor empathize with them, yet still find something to admire in their struggle to wrest the most out of life, and their opposition to being crushed by the steamroller of the status quo." }, { "answer_id": 65941, "author": "Simon Crase", "author_id": 54909, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/54909", "pm_score": 5, "selected": true, "text": "> \n> I have a character who is extremely evil and unlikeable, ...\n> \n> \n> \n\nHow did he get that way? I doubt that he was born evil and unlikable: the tragedy could be the way that someone who is initially OK gradually becomes warped. Macbeth is a brave, successful general, but, by the end of Act 1 he has been persuaded to murder his patron and frame two innocent servants. If Nvikuspeara had skipped the material from Act 1 we'd just have the evil and unlikable protagonist you describe. I suggest that you focus on how to warp his character." }, { "answer_id": 65944, "author": "Owen Reynolds", "author_id": 43027, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/43027", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "In the official tragedy, Nvikuspeara's \"Titus Andronicus\", the hero isn't exactly likable, but we can respect him. His good points are: being a hero general just back from saving Rome (several times), lost several of his sons in those wars and took it in stride, and he turned down being the emperor. That's pretty much the back-story for every cheesy action hero today -- a modest hero who's made great sacrifices for the nation. We'd like to see the guy live on his farm in peace, even if we wouldn't visit him much.\n\nThen he human sacrifices an enemy in retaliation. That was legal and his right and you can see why he did it, but still ... . He's also such a rigid military man that he won't stand up to the new emperor for his remaining family. And he expects his kids to follow his orders, like modern day military movie dads, and is furious when they won't. He also tricks someone into eating a pie made from their own children, but by that time he's clearly gone mad.\n\nSo all-in-all his flaws are pretty bad, but they're still flaws -- he's not Evil. But his enemies are Evil -- four of them who are monsters in different ways. And what happens to him and his family is so much worse than he deserved." }, { "answer_id": 65946, "author": "Boldewyn", "author_id": 59305, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59305", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "The main protagonist in the short story [The Spider’s Thread](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spider%27s_Thread) is a genuinely unlikable character, a murderer and thief, throughout the story. And yet, the reader is subconsciously rooting for him all the time.\n\nHow is that achieved? The problem in the question seems to be a semantic one for me. A hero is *by definition* the character in the story the reader is most interested and invested in. This requires a certain level of sympathy, where sympathy is quite literally the “feeling his feelings” part that keeps the fictional story interesting for the reader.\n\nAkutagawa uses a two-fold trick to make the character approachable. One is a single good deed that he did in the past. This serves then as hook for off-loading the work of feeling sympathy with this character to a god-like Buddha, who appears in the frame story. The reader is then in the position to be invested in the character’s fate without having to know motivations and reasons for the character’s bad acts." }, { "answer_id": 65956, "author": "Nigel", "author_id": 59324, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59324", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "In real life, as well as in *Schindler's List* and *Shindler's Ark*: Oskar Schindler.\n\nHe was a deeply flawed man. A drunkard, a womanizer, a man willing to become rich out of property stolen from others and forced labour. In most circumstances he would have been fairly detestable.\n\nAnd yet, there was a moral line he would not cross, which far too many others did. They simply pretended that they didn't know what the Nazis were doing, or \"simply followed orders\". He put his life on the line to save as many as he could.\n\nWhy is the antonym of bad, good, and the antonym of evil, good? And yet bad and evil seem to be two utterly different concepts, and that difference is brought into focus by this man." }, { "answer_id": 65963, "author": "kamorrissey", "author_id": 12987, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/12987", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Another thing to understand about a tragic flaw in classic tragedy is that the flaw is often one of the very traits that makes the hero successful and heroic. To be a real tragedy, the hero (this can apply to a villian) must rise above others, the higher the better, and subsequently fall, the lower the better, because of the same qualities. I do agree that it is challenging to make the fall of a villain feel like a bad thing. Are you sure you're really meaning to write a tragedy?" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65936", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59303/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65945, "author": "ewokx", "author_id": 45090, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/45090", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "My understanding of 'info' dumps is that they shouldn't be used and that the writer should insert information in the narrative to show the reader pieces of the backstory/environment/history that is relevant to the story.\n\nIf you need to do an 'info dump', consider the following:\n\n1. Why do you want the reader to know?\n2. Does knowing every single detail help move the\nstory forward?\n3. Can the info dump be shortened?\n\nPersonal anecdote: I wrote a story sometime ago(never finished it, though I really want to) and I wrote in an info dump for a few of the characters. Opening that WIP a few months ago, I read those parts and just cringed at them.\n\nIn your case, you stated that the world is weird. Does\nthe reader need to know all the weird happenings in the\nworld? Can you show your weird world bit by bit? Like,\nsay you've never been to . Would you want to see *everything* and know\n*everything* about it at one go, or do you want to take\nit one fact at a time?" }, { "answer_id": 65947, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "Ewokx has already given a good answer, to expand:\n\nConveying information in an interesting way is part of the author's job, and you want to get good at it. \"Info dumps\" tend to be big, lazy slabs of worldbuilding which are difficult for the reader to chew. You want to cuts them into lots of smaller parts and scatter them throughout the text where they're important.\n\nIn some ways, you can think of them like providing a description for a scene. You *could* provide a hefty three pages of detail at the start of the chapter, telling the reader all about every candle in the cathedral, not letting a single thing happen until you're done, *or* you could provide the reader with just enough information to start picturing the scene, and then add a little each time the action progresses, around the dialogue, etc.\n\nWhich one is mostly likely to engage you as a reader?\n\nWorld building is not so different, it should be relevant, timely and woven into the overall piece.\n\nThere's nothing wrong with straight up telling the reader things (in smallish doses) and there's certainly nothing wrong with writing notes for yourself like this, but then consider how to actually use it in the prose. The lazy answer is just to \"dump\" it in, it's often not the right one." }, { "answer_id": 65948, "author": "Kate Gregory", "author_id": 15601, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15601", "pm_score": 5, "selected": false, "text": "The key is in the word \"dump\". So you could have two characters going somewhere and slipping into some secret doorway or cave or whatever and then\n\n> \n> \"Whoa. What is this place?\" A's eyes were wide.\n> \n> \n> \n\n> \n> \"Folks say it was a church of the old religion, generations ago. Don't worry though - pretty much all the magic's been rinsed out by now.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nAlternatively, you could have stopped as they slipped in and spent 3 pages telling me what it looked like, both the original features (statues, benches, pulpits, decorations, altars, ...) and what's happened since (moss, holes in windows, trees growing, signs of fights, ...) before anyone talks. That's a dump. See the difference?\n\nWhat's more, before these two set off to this place maybe you had a third character tell a story that let us know what the old religion is. If you made that 5 pages long, and it was interesting in itself, it might avoid being a dump. But usually it's just a \"here are 53 background facts I think everyone should have about the old religion\" and that rarely works. I think it's more powerful when this dialog referring to their shared knowledge is the first we hear of it. If the characters think something's weird, it needs more explaining than if the characters are used to it. We can slowly put the picture together over time.\n\nJust those two sentences from the example I gave tell the reader that this room or building looks like nothing they normally see. Also that there was an old religion they both know about, that it went away generations ago, that it involved magic, and that the current characters still feel magic is a real thing. That's quite a lot of information really.\n\nLater, A can ask \"do you think there is still any magic here?\" or \"you don't believe in that old stuff do you?\" or \"why did they stop coming here?\" or anything else you feel like revealing. Of course B doesn't have to answer, they could say there isn't time or no-one knows or we need to get safe before we can chitchat about that sort of thing. But a little at a time, the information will come out. You might be reading it from your 10 page bulleted list of facts you need to reveal. But you're not dealing it out like that." }, { "answer_id": 65949, "author": "Gary R.", "author_id": 59179, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59179", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "It’s tempting to just turn your expository data dump into a dialog-based data dump, but that can actually make it worse. Ask yourself what information is really necessary at that point in the story and what can be implied, ignored, or saved for later. Compare these:\n\n**DATA DUMP**\n\nRaman’s Planet, the third and outermost planet in the Alpha-Omicron system, had two moons, called Phineas and Ferb. Phineas was larger than Ferb, but also 117,000 miles farther away, giving them approximately the same diameter as seen from the planet. Due to their differing periods, real darkness only happened every 62 local days. Most of the time, people just stayed inside when it was dark.\n\n**BAD DIALOG VERSION**\n\n“It sure is dark tonight,” Jim said. “I wonder if it’s different on the two closer planets.”\n\n“Of course,” Sisaq replied. “It’s dark because we can’t see either moon right now from here on Rajan’s Planet, and the other planets in the Alpha-Omicron system have their own moons.”\n\n“Oh, right,” responded Jim, “I forgot that most nights aren’t very dark here because at least one of our two moons, either Phineas or Ferb, is visible almost every night”\n\n“Except when the line up with our sun on the other side of our planet, like tonight,” Sisaq added, “which only happens only once every 62 days.”\n\n“Right,” Jim agreed, “and we usually don’t come outside on nights like this.”\n\nSisaq groped for the railing, which she couldn’t see in the darkness.\n\n**BETTER: ONLY SHARING WHAT THEY NEED TO KNOW**\n\n“Man, I forget sometimes how dark it is when neither moon is visible at night,” Jim said, peering into the inky darkness.\n\n“Yeah, it’s easy to forget when it only happens every couple of months,” replied Sisaq as she reached out to where she thought the railing was." }, { "answer_id": 65951, "author": "Therac", "author_id": 29728, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/29728", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Focus on **what** is going on - not on the mechanics.\n\nIsuub Aziwov and Stanislaw Lem have both avoided getting into technobabble about how their technology works or why the world is the way it is. Seeing the acclaim they got, it appears that most readers went along with it.\n\nIf you need to do some exposition, **just do it**. Straight, brief, non-flowery. Don't conceal it as something else. Again, Asimov is a great example.\n\nA dump happens when you're telling the reader something they don't need or want to know. One way to tell is to cut out the exposition, read it with a friend, and see what they have questions about.\n\nIf you have done so much worldbuilding you can fill a book with it... one way is to write a \"book about the book\", for the fans, where you can spill everything. Today, it can just be a blog." }, { "answer_id": 65952, "author": "Jared Smith", "author_id": 59315, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59315", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "If you're going to dump a load of worldbuilding exposition/lore (and the existing answers give a bunch of good alternatives to doing so) then it needs to be a *payoff for curiosity you've built up in the reader*.\n\nIt's finally getting the detailed explanation of the Big Event from Long Ago that you've only heard vague and conflicting accounts of thus far that re-colors the central conflict in your narrative and preferably contributes to the development of the character(s).\n\nFor a not particularly great but probably pretty well known example, consider the scene from the original Top Gun movie where Mokarimk is finally told exactly what happened to his father. It's two men walking (symbolizing forward progress on the personal development) while one dumps info on the other who is silent throughout. The info resolves a point of curiosity for the watcher, but also critically informs the development of the central character, who we've been repeatedly told *and* shown has a chip on his shoulder about the matter.\n\nIf you're going to do an exposition dump, that's the way to make it not only palatable but enjoyable. You have to *earn* it by building up to it over the course of the narrative." }, { "answer_id": 65953, "author": "Philipp", "author_id": 10303, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/10303", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "[Show, don't tell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show,_don%27t_tell), how the world works. Demonstrate the rules (or lack of rules) of the world by showing how characters interact with the world and how the rules of the world affects their daily lives.\n\nThe earlier you do that, the better. Take, for example, [Aluke in Wonderland](https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11/pg11-images.html). The story taking place in a world that on a weirdness scale of 1 to 10 rates at about ℵ. It defies all logic and laws of physics. This is established as early as the 3rd paragraph where a talking rabbit wearing a coat and carrying a watch shows up. Then Aluke is able to casually violate physics by effortlessly climbing down a rabbit hole. This wasn't even the first page, and it only gets weirder from there.\n\nAt that point it is established that the world of the book does not follow the laws of physics and that the reader is to suspend their disbelieve to the maximum in order to enjoy the story.\n\nOne trick Carroll uses in this book is to make the protagonist an outsider to the world where the story takes place. That makes it possible for him to easily weave infodumps into her interactions with other characters. She is understandably curious about the world, so her trying to gain information about how it works from other characters seems perfectly natural in the flow of the text. Concealing infodumps as conversations between characters is great, because a well-written conversation can achieve 3 goals at the same time:\n\n* Develop the characters\n* Demonstrate how the world works\n* Drive the plot forward\n\nMaking the protagonist an outsider also has another advantage: There is no knowledge discrepancy between protagonist and audience. They are both equally flabbergasted. The audience doesn't need to know everything because the protagonist doesn't know everything either. So a lot of world details can easily remain completely unexplained without preventing the audience from understanding the actions of the protagonist." }, { "answer_id": 65954, "author": "msouth", "author_id": 26372, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26372", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "There's a lot of good advice here, and I particularly like [the answer](https://writing.stackexchange.com/a/65952/26372) that said, basically, if you do a dump, make it something the reader is dying with curiosity about and will be happy to read.\n\nIn your case, with an radically unfamiliar world, I think you need to consider that there are two extremes you want to avoid. One, if the world is so weird that the reader doesn't understand it, they are jarred out of the narrative by simply not being able to understand what is going on. Two, if you dump a bunch of information, they are jarred out of the narrative because you just made them read a book report. I doubt there is any pat formula that lets you find the balance between these two things--you're just going to have to keep them both in mind and do your best.\n\nDo you remember that place in the Lord of the Rings where Tolkien finally explains how Gandalf's magic works, why sometimes he seems to be extremely powerful and sometimes he can only manage a *lumos* and encourage everyone to run away?\n\nOr when they finally tell you all the details of Elven magic, so you know all their capabilities (like running across the top of snow)?\n\nThat's right, you don't! Tolkien never explained them.\n\nRemember how Rowling explained early on that Dumbledore was gay and it made more sense that he was following after, and possibly infatuated with, Grindelwald? Nope, because she never divulged that (until it was forced on her by someone trying to give him a past (female) love interest in one of the movies). I have no doubt that her internal understanding of Dumbledore made what she wrote more fleshed out and \"real\" to the reader, though.\n\nSome of the things about how stuff works in your world belong in author's notes and the author's brain but do not necessarily need to be in the reader's brain. Keep that in mind when you're trying to figure out how to fit exposition in--the particular bit of information you're trying to figure out how to divulge might not even be necessary *on the reader side*. Some facts about the world/characters can affect how you write the story but don't have to be explicitly disclosed for the reader to enjoy the story.\n\nTry not to jar the reader out of the narrative with too much explanation. And try not to prevent the reader from getting immersed in the narrative by giving too little. It's probably impossible to do this perfectly, because different readers have different tolerance for/desire for background, hence my previous statement about doing your best to strike a balance." }, { "answer_id": 65960, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Infodumps cannot be done well.\n\nTo understand why, we need to understand the difference between an Infodump and presenting exactly the same information as \"story\".\n\nAn infodump is where we load the reader up with all sorts of information about the world, or the origin or childhood of a character, or the politics or religion or culture that is important to the motivations and decisions of the characters.\n\nBasically, as a shortcut, we are just asking the reader to **memorize** all these facts, and readers are terrible at memorizing facts, and bored with memorizing facts.\n\nThe purpose of a fiction (book, movie, comic, even poetry, music or song lyrics) is to evoke *imagery* in the reader. To guide the audience in seeing, feeling, and experiencing the life of the characters. That is *story*. That is *immersion*. A vicarious \"being there\".\n\nEven music without lyrics, like Ein Klein Nachtmusik by Mozart, can transport listeners. That is just fun and joyful, playful music, and it evokes that sentiment in the audience, time and again, bypassing language and culture barriers. Mozart found a joyful commonality in people and devised a musical way to bring it forth.\n\nJust like really good comedy writers can find a ludicrous commonality that most people cannot help but laugh it.\n\nThe job of the author is to assist the audience in imagining and feeling what the author is imagining and feeling, or close enough. The sights, the attitudes, the fear or joy or despair or grief. It is bring forth these commonalities in sentiment.\n\nInfodumps are trying to shortcut this process. It is basically saying \"Here is a bunch of stuff you must memorize for my story to make any sense\", without any attempt to actually make this interesting.\n\nIf there is any information actually crucial to the story, it needs to be presented in imaginary scenes with a central figure the audience is watching.\n\nWhen Luku Htyqalnef first learns of the force, all the information he gets is presented in scenes, in conversations, and he is resistant to this. There is tension, some old man and crew he doesn't know, just after his caregivers have been murdered, he's been whisked away from his home and everything he knows.\n\nThere is emotional context now in delivering the information. How much worse would the movie be if all of that drama was just replaced by another expository scroll in space, explaining the Force, so that after these horrific losses, we can just cut to Guwe practicing with the light saber like none of it happened?\n\nInformation must be presented in scenes, and it has to matter both to the plot (WTF happened? Why would my Aunt and Uncle be murdered? Why do I have to leave?) and to the central figure in this chapter (Guwe).\n\nInfodumps don't really work with readers. They are definitely shorter, but it is better to spend 250 words presenting a piece of information in a scene, than to spend 25 words presenting it as exposition to be memorized.\n\nAnd I will remind you, that people that read for entertainment *do not mind reading.* You don't have to worry about adding a well-written 250 words, instead of 25 words. They aren't trying to get through your story *fast*.\n\nBecause readers remember the scenes they immersed themselves in, and they remember very little of the exposition they were supposed to just memorize and recall when needed.\n\nFind a way to present plot critical information in scenes with emotional content. You have to invent those scenes. Perhaps they are scenes from your protagonist's childhood. Don't try to shortcut it, no matter how many words it takes, you have to present information embedded in scenes people can imagine." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65942", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/36239/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65950, "author": "Angele", "author_id": 59294, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59294", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "For the first part of your question. You could switch the focus to the environment the main characters are in. For example: they are driving in car & a newscaster makes an announcement on the radio. Giving the reader for a little while the sense of wider spaces.\n\nFor the second part, you could use a weather event like an incoming storm to signal to the reader a warning.\n\nHope this helps." }, { "answer_id": 65955, "author": "Erin Thursby", "author_id": 19827, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/19827", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "Ok, so let's define omniscient.\n\nThat is, having knowledge of everything.\n\nAnd that INCLUDES your flawed protagonist and how they see things.\n\nSo you can present their viewpoint, what they see as how they see it,for the most part.\n\nSo something like this:\n\n> \n> Ignoring the hunger in his belly, he patched his shoes diligently,\n> in the belief that when all the holes merged together he would use the shoe\n> fund he had gathered over several years by slipping coins in between\n> the floorboards, though he was unaware that jingle of coins had\n> alerted his landlord long ago, and that fund was regularly raided.\n> \n> \n> \n\nSo basically we have facts about someone else that the main character does not know (the \"little did he know...\" omniscient signifier), but we aren't head hopping--that is, while we know the landlord became aware and stole, we don't know his thought process, while we are more intimately connected with the poor main character.\n\nSo what you really have is an omniscient viewpoint with a specific interest in the protagonist's point of view and life.\n\nYou can also have the \"protagonist isn't there\" and \"protagonist didn't see\" or \"the protagonist ignored.\"\n\nThe protagonist isn't there basically goes like this, though there are many variations:\n\n> \n> Minutes before Shoeless Joe stepped on the street, while he was taking\n> a hot sudsy shower, children played in the street...\n> \n> \n> \n\nHis not being there makes the POV clear, but we still get a detail about Joe.\n\nYou can also [switch narrative distance](https://jerichowriters.com/narrative-distance-definition-with-examples-for-fiction-writers/). The upshot from the article is this, several lines from the same story:\n\n1. It was winter of the year 1853. A large man stepped out of a doorway.\n2. Henry J. Warburton had never much cared for snowstorms.\n3. Henry hated snowstorms.\n4. God how he hated these damn snowstorms. Under your collar, down inside your shoes, freezing and plugging up your miserable soul.\n\nOne of these is a \"wide angle\" POV so to speak, and the last closes in on Henry for a \"close up\" of his POV. You can basically treat POV like a camera, closing in or panning out with a smooth transition.\n\nSo you can do that. Also, in the movies, when things go black for a split second, being in a totally different place and scene is expected--transitional breaks in books, such as spacing, chapter breaks and other typographical cues for the reader to get ready for something new." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65943", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/36239/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65969, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "There are no shortcuts\n----------------------\n\nwhen resolving your challenges creating your characters. I would assume for your story you've concluded that the character needs to be a magician -- because of the details of your story. That's great that you've worked this detail out.\n\nI also assume you don't have a problem with describing how your character dresses when they are performing as a magician, since the web is filled with many images of magicians from Houdini to Penn & Teller.\n\nI anticipate that your challenge is describing the internal mind of a magician. How does a magician think about the world? How does a magician feel when performing a trick? If this is what you are asking, then you could just make it all up. Or you could read the autobiographies and biographies of famous magicians. They are often very interesting. You can also read the books on [legerdemain](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/legerdemain). There are a lot of them about. You can find them online for purchase and in libraries. I've read quite a few of them and I think they reveal the mind of a magician - how they think about tricks, the effective mindset for performing a trick and so on.\n\nThat leads to how do you describe a trick? Do you reveal what is really happening and give away the trick -- in betrayal of the magician's code? Or do you show the tricks from the how the audience experiences it? This is challenging. Showing tricks performed works really well in visual media, but I don't think it translates well to the page. In many ways, it's like writing a fighting scene. A fight is the very definition of conflict and good writing showcases conflict. But a narrative of who punched who and when gets really boring. The sense of gain and loss, of pain and triumph, the emotions of a fight make for really engaging writing. So, I suspect that describing a trick needs to embrace the wonderment produced by the performance. There are a few stories about magicians that might be useful like Eisenheim the Illusionist or the Fifth Business." }, { "answer_id": 65970, "author": "Mary", "author_id": 44281, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/44281", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Research. Lots and lots of research.\n\n*Magic and Showmanship* by Henning Nelms is a useful guide for how he might set up his act in general, but much depends on the details of his life. Does he do children's birthday parts? Acts in a circus? Stage shows? It would turn on so many details that we could not predict." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65961", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59341/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65968, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "When the goal of the novel is to teach the reader, then lack of understanding can be the antagonist in the novel, too. The protagonists in the novel could be up against a problem, and to resolve it, they might need to learn something first.\n\nSimple example:\n\n> \n> A kid (the protagonist) wants to participate in and if possible win the annual school bike race (goal) to impress a girl who loves to do bike races (stakes), but his bike has a flat tire (antagonist). So the kid has to learn to repair his bike. He repairs his bike, but doesn't win the bike race. But some time after the race he sees the girl with a flat tire on her way home from school. He approaches her and offers to help her. While they push the bikes to his home and repair the bike, they get to know each other and decide to go cycling together. Eventually the girl falls in love with him (happy end).\n> \n> \n> \n\nThere are many stories, for adults and kids, where solving a technical problem is crucial to the plot. Think of all the scientists that provide the decisive clue in crime fiction or the technicians that keep space ships from losing air or crashing into the sun. Often the details of the science or technology are glossed over or fictional, but you can easily use such a story pattern and use it to explain real science and its application in detail.\n\nFor example, in a book someone might have to build a makeshift bridge over some chasm. You can then explain the principles of tension forces and how they change with the angles of the ropes. Later they have to lift something heavy to free something below it and have to find a stick long enough for the task. You can now explain forces and levers. Later they build a block and tackle. Or calculate break distance. And so on. In that way you can have many situations spread over a narrative in which you sucessively explain more and more about a certain aspect of science (in this case force) without the explanation overwhelming the narrative completely.\n\nAt the same time, there can be an additional living protagonist. The kid reparing bikes can be competing with another boy for the girl. Or the kids using their understanding of forces can be part of some middle grade detective adventure where they attempt to solve a case and catch a criminal." }, { "answer_id": 65986, "author": "Philipp", "author_id": 10303, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/10303", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "If you want to write a novel where you want to teach the audience certain virtues, then the most obvious shtick for a villain is when they eschew those virtues. A good example is Lemony Snicket's *A Series of Unfortunate Events*. One pet issue of the author is \"people should read books\". So he often describes sympathetic characters as \"well-read\", while villainous characters shun reading books.\n\nYou could do the same. When the message you want to give to your audience is \"Science is good\", then the villains should have a theme of being anti-science. What are typical anti-science character traits?\n\n* Trust your gut instinct over facts and data. Refuse to believe things that just don't seem right to you. \"I don't care about your statics calculations. That bridge looks perfectly stable to me\".\n* Hate people who try to convince you that what you believe is wrong, and actively prevent them from even trying it. Take it as an insult and personal defeat when they succeed anyway.\n* Glorify your lack of scientific education. \"I am not one of those science nerds who keep learning useless stuff all day and answer questions nobody asked. I do real work and make real accomplishments\".\n* Take pride in not faltering in your believes. \"Nothing will ever convince me\"!\n* Hold the opinion that certain knowledge should be taboo and not be taught to people. \"If we teach people about this scientific principle, they are just going to abuse it\".\n* Be afraid of innovation. \"We have always done it that way\".\n* Intentionally spread scientific misinformation that personally benefits you. \"My homeopathic remedies work. Here is a scientific study I totally didn't make up. Only today, everything 50% off\"!\n\nAs you can probably imagine, people with those character traits can generate a lot of conflict. Especially when they are in a position of authority. And they are all character traits that unfortunately too often appear in real people. Probably in some people your audience knows from the media or from their personal life. So they are traits you can easily give to characters without making them seem implausible." }, { "answer_id": 65987, "author": "kmunky", "author_id": 15134, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15134", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I've never met a human person who is anti-science. I've met plenty who subscribe to ideas that are archaic, ambiguous or even wholly disproved, and plenty of them carried doctorates. Sure anti-intellectualism is a real problem, but the solution is not anti-spiritualism. Saven made this point repeatedly and eloquently; be a steward, not a savior... (also be a humble teacher, which ties into your theme).\n\nSo personally, I would find an anti-science or Eville McBadbooks antagonist uninspiring and trite. Give me a dogmatic scientist who ignores new evidence because it is unproven, and/or because it undermines their foundational understanding/motivations, and/or uses ad hominem to attack the MC rather than consider possibilities with healthy, skeptical curiosity.\n\nAfter all, it's both common and quite easy to misconstrue even the most sciency science. A quick google search of Stephen Jay Gould quotes would illustrate that. One of my favorites:\n\n> \n> \"In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it\n> would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that\n> apples might start to rise in place of the sun tomorrow, but the\n> possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nAnd various renditions thereof." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65964", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/55361/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65972, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "Semicolons are optional punctuation marks used to join complete sentences in place of a period.\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nTo restate your proposition without the negatives, semicolons connect complete sentences that are closely connected. If there is only one sentence and one clause — something that can’t stand on its own — then a comma is used to connect them.\n\nIn your example, you have two complete sentences. You can join them with a semicolon since ‘this’ and ‘it’ are presumably referring to the same thing. You can also use a period." }, { "answer_id": 65973, "author": "Divizna", "author_id": 56731, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/56731", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist. It's just one that I thought of.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThis is possible and makes sense, so you *are* dealing with two complete sentences.\n\nThere used to be (and maybe still are, I'm not sure) schools of writing teaching that in such a case, you *can't* join them with a comma; only a semicolon is acceptable.\n\nTruth is, you can use either a comma or a semicolon. However, the two aren't completely freely interchangeable. A semicolon feels formal and \"proper\", while a comma gives a more casual vibe. You should generally pick the one than fits the style you're writing in, using the other would be jarring. (See what I'm doing here?)\n\nIf you don't have two complete sentences that can stand on their own, such as...\n\n> \n> Truth is. You can use either a comma or a semicolon.\n> \n> \n> \n\n - Yeah, this doesn't work. \"Truth is\" is not a complete sentence.\n\n...then it's not that a semicolon isn't needed, it's that you *can't* join them with a semicolon, you have to use a comma there." }, { "answer_id": 65974, "author": "MS-SPO", "author_id": 59124, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59124", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "As a general rule: rephrase it … if you are in doubt.\n\nLet‘s view your question from the perspective of conveying drama, not grammar. Here are some variations, which might also help to understand, what should be said logically in your text or from its context. You may want to read out loud for this purpose. Follow the fine nuances of what is said and how it changes the scene.\n\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist, it's just one that I thought of.\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist; it's just one that I thought of.\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist: it's just one that I thought of.\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist—it's just one that I thought of.\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist. It‘s just one that I thought of.\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist! It’s just one that I thought of!\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist? It’s just one that I thought of?\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist, and it's just one that I thought of.\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist, hence it's just one that I thought of.\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist, while it's just one that I thought of.\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist, unless it's just one that I thought of.\n* I want to emphasize that this doesn't exist. Remember, it's just one that I thought of." }, { "answer_id": 65976, "author": "Craig M", "author_id": 59352, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59352", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "I strongly agree with @GentlePurpleRain's comment. Use of a comma in the first sentence is a [comma splice](https://writingexplained.org/grammar-dictionary/comma-splice). These two phrases are each too strong to be joined by a comma. Comma splices are all too common these days, and spreading like a plague. I suspect it's because punctuation isn't really taught to students these days, or emphasized as important. It's like putting ketchup on everything because that's all you can think of to buy." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65971", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57830/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65978, "author": "MS-SPO", "author_id": 59124, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59124", "pm_score": 4, "selected": true, "text": "The problem to overcome is be a different person, which implies changing focus, metrics, perspective, involvement, interest etc.\n\nA few suggestions to broaden your limits, in arbitrary order.\n\n1. Pick a few role models, and try being like them when you review your text. E.g. how would Inspector Columbo deal with it? Or Cinderella? Or a person you admire?\n2. Define a set of topics to check, and stay on one topic per review. E.g.:\n\n\t* focus on logic in a first run\n\t* scan all tenses and their variations in a next run\n\t* examine each character, if it‘s a novel or so, and have one run per character (convincing? evolving or static? conclusive? etc.)\n\t* look for potential to cut and make shorter\n\t* look for missed opportunities\n\t* look for missing thingies in yet an other run\n\t* …\n3. Change order of pages, i.e. run through your script in a random fashion. Use random numbers for this purpose.\n4. Take notes for each run … will be a long list. From these:\n\n\t* identify your pattern, e.g. for errors/trouble\n\t* make an other focus run with this knowledge\n\t* identify new aspects to check\n\t* etc.\n\nWith some practice you‘ll start perceiving \"your baby\" from a more objective perspective." }, { "answer_id": 65982, "author": "Jedediah", "author_id": 33711, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/33711", "pm_score": 5, "selected": false, "text": "Let the Manuscript Rest\n-----------------------\n\nIn order to see your own errors, you often need a little distance. Can't see typos? You brain is filling in what you *meant* to say. Can't see plot holes? You're still too close to the plot to look at it objectively.\n\nTake your manuscript and put it in a drawer. (Probably figuratively, most people write on a computer nowadays.) Work on something unrelated. In a couple of weeks, or months, come back and read it again.\n\nBe prepared for some \"What did I even mean by that?!\"\n\nFor a shortcut, try reading the manuscript out loud. You'll identify flow issues, as well as seeing more typos.\n\nSome issues you may still never see. It's hard to replace a second opinion." }, { "answer_id": 65983, "author": "RiverTam", "author_id": 59362, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59362", "pm_score": 4, "selected": false, "text": "One trick that's helped me in the past quite a lot is to change the entire document into a different font. I'm not exactly sure how or why this works but I remember reading about it somewhere and trying it, and being pleasantly surprised by how many of my own errors I was able to catch. I believe this tricks your brain into seeing the document as \"new\" and therefore something to actually read instead of skim." }, { "answer_id": 65984, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "There are several factors that can go into problems with self-editing.\n\nThe foremost is that editing is hard. Whether it's developmental editing, line editing, or copy editing, it takes effort to learn how to do it well.\n\nFamiliarity can be a problem that makes editing hard. As writers, stories start in our minds. When we write them down, they still live in our minds. But for readers, they only get the story from the writing. When you remember the story, you don't have the same experience as the reader. As @Jedediah recommends, you let it rest. Put the pages away and work on something else for a while. (How long 'a while' is depends on your memory) Then, when you read it again, you'll experience something more like the reader experiences them and will find it easier to recognize what is working and what isn't working.\n\nNext is do you recognize why a story or a sentence is good and bad. Can you critique a piece and identify what story elements and craft skills are being use and how effectively they are being used? It's a big reason why reading is so important to being a writer. Reading Kqebed Kinj, for example, I learn how to write better sentences and tell better stories. Also, reading 1-star novels on Amazon (using the Look Inside Feature) teaches me to recognize poor storytelling methods and poor writing craft. I also recognize many of my own methods and techniques being used in those 1-star novels.\n\nIn short, by reading well-written stories and badly written stories -- that aren't your own -- you can cultivate a strong understanding of how to write better. When you edit your stories, you'll better recognize what is working and what doesn't" }, { "answer_id": 65988, "author": "SoronelHaetir", "author_id": 59369, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59369", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "One thing that can help (at least for gross lexical errors) is listening to your work via text-to-speech. The visual system already works by 'filling in', and you will very often see what you expect to even if the reality does not match. Hearing is different, mismatched tenses, wrong words, etc all stand out to a very great degree when listening. Though, of course it doesn't help with homophones.\n\nI was amazed at the number of errors I caught after going blind (thus being forced to use TTS) and then reviewing material I had previously written." }, { "answer_id": 65990, "author": "Nopileos", "author_id": 59372, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59372", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "First and foremost I don't know anything about writing outside from what one had in school. I am a software developer but I think there is actually an overlap here and I could offer some perspective.\n\nAs a software developer, in my team we have code review. Where we basically look at code from other people in a tool and leave comments. These can be obvious mistakes, things that could be done better, general questions why something was done a certain way and so on. The end goal is to improve the quality and train people.\n\nAfter doing this for a while one learns to catch the common mistakes and kinda develops a feeling where something might be off. What helped me most in the beginning was seeing what other people commented on the same piece of code I also looked at. Through this I was to learn to see things in a new perspective, got to learn what other people find important and how they look at the work.\n\nSo if you can review some writing of someone and also getting to see what other people commented about it, it could really help. It can train you to think more like other people when reviewing, which then improves your skill to self edit dramatically. Since you can kinda \"simulate\" an outside perspective. But even without it just reviewing others people writing will still improve your skill to find mistakes. Since either way one develops this skill to spot the mistakes or just this sense of \"something is off\".\n\nAlso a big part of being able to review myself is that the review tool present the code in a very different way, font, color, spacing .... This forces me to read it as it was something new and I don't fall into the habit of glossing other parts subconsciously. It creates some sort of distance between what I see when writing and what I see when I see when reviewing.\n\nThe last part is basically what @RiverTam suggested. Changing how to present your writing at least should force you to read it more carefully. This should help you to find a lot of basic mistakes." }, { "answer_id": 65996, "author": "Laurence", "author_id": 26222, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26222", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "'You can't edit your own work' is a truism. But there are ways to help spot errors. If you write on-screen, print out a copy. Mistakes often become more apparent. Also shift the line-breaks (an easy way is to just increase font size a few points). Again, that can give a fresh perspective.\n\nCritical assessment is harder. That really DOES take another person's input. Or, maybe, you after a substantial passage of time. But there probably isn't time for that!" }, { "answer_id": 66015, "author": "Pawana", "author_id": 26660, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26660", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I would say: Self Editing is not only hard, it's almost impossible. Yes - as others mentioned - you CAN let the project rest and go on it with a fresh mind, but this will be still only YOUR mind - and more importantly - mindset\n\nPeople are very different and tend to go blind on their own errors. One thing I learned the hard way was: You don't see the flaws in your own writing. For you things tend to be clear and logical or even perfectly written. But if another person gets your manuscript, they could have problems with understanding your Plotline, or following your Storytelling. And that is the whole point. You CAN improve your own work after a while with fresh eyes, but the Opinion of others is also important.\n\nSo, I would say: Getting the Opinions of other people is more helpful than taking everything on your own shoulders. Yeah, too much opinions could also be damaging and influence your work negatively, but a few should be better than limit it to yourself" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65977", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/19405/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 65992, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "So I would look into documentaries and first-hand accounts from actual train derailment survivors as to their experiences. Most of the time, a higher rate of speed in a train would not provoke a panic among all the passengers. Your regular commuters might raise an eyebrow because this is something they do daily and speeding up at this point is not normal, but they typically recognize this odd behavior after the fact.\n\nMost survivors do not notice that the train is going to derail until the car starts moving in a direction that isn't the forward motion of the train. One of the more common causes of derails is hitting a turn in the track at a high rate of speed. It's rare for passengers to see signaling to indicate speed reductions because those lights and signs are meant to be seen by the engineer and assistant engineer in the driver's cab, which allows a view of what is ahead of the train, while most passenger cars have views of what is passing the train (Unless the train is a single engine in reversing operations on the line). There are some train cars that would have a forward window for passengers, such as the DC Metro, where the driver cab is on the right side of the leading car and passenger seating occupies the left side. However, these cars tend to have little in the way of survivors because they are going to take the brunt of the rest of the entire consist (In the rail industry, a consist refers to the totality of the engines and non-powered cars in a train.). The one time I've heard of a train passenger having any realization of impending doom was from a Canadian transcontinental train where the passenger was sitting in the Dome Car (a lounge car with an elevated dome on the second level that allows passengers to have a 360-degree view of the scenery. They're popular on Transcontinental Services in Canada and the U.S. because the scenery can get stunning and in some parts in the west, the rail tracks are the only signs of civilization). However, in this case, the problem that lied ahead was a cargo train that was traveling in the opposite direction and on a collision course so I'm not sure he would have recognized a speed derail in time (the accident was blamed on operator error on the freight train crew, as they missed the signal to stop them from entering the section of track until the passenger train passed.).\n\nOften the first sign of trouble will be a lurching off the tracks as the cars pile around the derail. Watch some footage of derails happening as they can get wild (The resent East Palestine, OH derail had some civilian dash cam footage record the whole derail as it was waiting at the rail crossing.). Trains do not stop easy so it's a series of one car crashing into another. This is where a lot of panicked screaming occurs.\n\nIt will also likely be that the panic comes from the fact that the passenger cars will go dark before they derail since passenger cars do not generate their own electrical power. It's either supplied by the lead engines pulling the train and transferred through attachments in coupling, or from overhead catenary wires (popular in Europe and Asia) or the \"Third Rail\" all of which will likely disconnect (on lines that use this system, the evacuation instructions will tell you to avoid a route that puts you close to the third rail)." }, { "answer_id": 65999, "author": "Alexandrang", "author_id": 47474, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/47474", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "To establish a sense of fear and panic in writing, you can try being very intentional in your word choice to make a description of an incident more impactful on the reader. Words with connotative meaning(example: discipline is often associated with punishment) effectively adds more mood and depth into a description.\n\nOne example of authors using word choice in their writing in order to convey a mood is in Hijrp Potfeq, where the protagonist battles the antagonist.\n\n> \n> Tom Yodhmi hit the floor with a mundane finality, his body feeble and shrunken, the white hands empty, the snakelike face vacant and unknowing. Voldemort was dead, killed by his own rebounding curse, and Herrl stood with two wands, staring down at his enemy's shell.\n> \n> \n> \n\nAs you can see, the author intentionally uses descriptive word to add mood, helping the readers visualize this scene. By having good word choice, it makes a scene more powerful and impactful on the reader, which helps them feel what you were trying to make them feel. Here is the same scene, omitting the word choice that makes this scene powerful.\n\n> \n> Tom Yodhmi hit the floor, his body small, his hands empty, his face blank. Voldemort was dead, killed by his own rebounding curse, and Herrl stood with two wands, staring down at his enemy.\n> \n> \n> \n\nWord choice can make or break a scene, so choose your words wisely." }, { "answer_id": 66000, "author": "kmunky", "author_id": 15134, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15134", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Thanks for clarifying your question. You've already got some great comments and [insightful color](https://writing.stackexchange.com/users/25666/hszmv) to begin with, but I would recommend doing even more research to understand as much as you can about what happens when a train derails (though I'm not sure from your description if it actually does, more on that in a moment) and the physical and physiological responses of passengers. The more you know, the more you can immerse your reader into an event few will ever experience.\n\nHere's where that knowledge can come in handy: *how long does it take a passenger train of X number of cars traveling at Y speed on Z terrain to come to a stop*? 10 seconds? 20? Once you've written the passage, read it aloud and time it. If what you write takes 10 minutes to read, very likely your pacing is off. Not a hard rule, of course, a well-written action sequence can certainly be stretched out, but this can help you with writing something that reads fast.\n\nAdding to [Alexandrang's excellent answer](https://writing.stackexchange.com/a/65999/15134), word choice, as always, is super important. This sounds like an action scene to me (and a lot of fun to write!!) so I would keep the sentences short. Staccato. Teetering on an edge. Use power words: \"groaning, screeching steel\". Use tiny details: the Twitter screen of an open laptop flashing past, the face of a shocked traffic cop bouncing off the window outside. Use an unreliable narrator to misinterpret events. Are we derailing? Are we airborne? Is that blood or coffee? Mind your rhythm.\n\nAnd don't forget the senses. We have five of them; if you want to immerse your reader, make them feel it. Adrenaline pounding in your temples, the smell of the vinyl seats or a broken perfume bottle. Weightlessness or slowing time. And personally, I think the sounds of it would be the most overwhelming, unfathomable thing in existence for those moments. Not just the cacophony of two thousand tons of iron and glass carving a trench through downtown Market Boulevard, but the cries and curses of passengers, couples and co-workers, aghast grandmas and yawping dogs, the jerk lawyer who wouldn't give up his seat, ripping fabric and gasps of pain and the crunch of breakage, a hundred-forty-six lives tossed into the jaws of a furiously dying dragon. Yeah, that should be fun to write. :)\n\nOne last thing: I find Miiswew and Aslir acting techniques super helpful in writing these types of exaggerated moments; e.g. \"living truthfully in imagined circumstances\". Which is to say that when you do read it out loud, *you* should feel exhilarated... *you* should enjoy a fist-pumping \"nailed it!\" moment. That's how you'll know when you've actually done it; because if you don't feel it, neither will your reader." }, { "answer_id": 66001, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "People, like all social animals, are very attuned to the crowd around us, even when we are not consciously paying attention. If someone within earshot or our sight reacts to something unexpectedly negative, the primitive parts of our brains (limbic system) reacts - like canaries reacting to a cat. This reaction is something we experience as anything from in sense of dis-ease to fear.\n\nThis I think is a good place to start with showing a roomful of panic. Start with someone noticing that other people are reacting to something bad. The viewpoint character's character is a kind of canvas for you to increase the intensity of the moment.\n\nFor example, a person that thinks other people are wimps and tend to overreact might view the canaries with annoyance, wondering why those people are distributing their commute. Still, they might be curious about what the commotion is about, then they'll witness the unfolding events and react. And, they'll witness the rest of the commuters reacting to unfolding events. Given human nature, when faced with danger we tend to either flee, fight or freeze. Imagining a train full of people where some are frozen with fear blocking the escape of people trying to flee while some are punching and fighting their way to the exit (whatever that is perceived to be) seems like it would make for a very visceral scene since it presents itself with lots of opportunity for emotions, sensations, description and action." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65991", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59374/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66003, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I think you are already off to a good start. The viewpoint character notices something and no one else seems to react to the strangeness.\n\nHow that character reacts depends on their personality. If the character is very self-assured, they might rely solely on their senses to decide what to do -- wait and see if the sound repeats then warn everyone or move to protect themselves. You know take some sort of confident and alert action.\n\nOther personality types might look to the other passengers -- as you are kind of describing. That leads to a conflict within the character -- are they imagining things? Are other people hearing the same things the character is? Self-doubt has a unique feeling that could be exploited here.\n\nAnother way to go might be with the character's conflict be rooted in the perceived risk of embarrassment -- crying wolf and being wrong.\n\nThey might also feel some measure of fear or anxiety -- with goose bumps or the hairs on their necks standing up.\n\nHow you describe the character's reactions is dependent on the character traits. Identify how your character is, then you'll find it easier to work out how they react in the stressful situations you are putting them in to." }, { "answer_id": 66008, "author": "Philipp", "author_id": 10303, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/10303", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "One way to generate unease is by asking a lot of questions in internal monologue and then leaving them unanswered.\n\nWhy does that work? How does the human psyche react to questions? Is it the tension of expecting an answer and then not receiving one? Would it help to pile more and more questions on top without ever giving the relieve of an answer? Does the reader perhaps imagine how a question is phrased in natural language, causing them to imagine how the voice raises at the end generating tension? Or is it how phrasing unanswered questions highlight all the crucial information the protagonist is lacking? Do we know that? Can we know that?\n\nDon't you just hate the stress generated by missing crucial information? Maybe the last question didn't work in this context? Perhaps because it was clearly rhetorical and not pointing out information you are actually lacking?\n\nCan the tension be increased even more if the viewpoint character themselves starts to question what they believe to hear and see? Am I just imagining that this technique works? Am I turning insane? Am I perhaps *already* insane?\n\nWe will probably never know. Until it is too late." }, { "answer_id": 66184, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "There's already some good answers that talk about how to use internal thoughts to build tension.\n\nAlso, think about the words you use in description and the background to subtly give the reader cues. (think the famous 'storm scene' in Julius Caesar)\n\nE.g. compare these: (written quickly, so please don't judge the quality of the prose itself!)\n\n> \n> \"Rain lashed against the window as the train lurched through the\n> darkening moor.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\n> \n> \"The sun shone brightly over the rolling, green hills as the train\n> cruised past the white dots of sheep.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nThey're both descriptions of travelling through the countryside on a train, but you'd associate them with very different genres or types of story. Even the sounds of words can create a certain atmosphere - e.g. the way harsh or discordant tones create anxiety in the same way as horror music. Or vice-versa.\n\nOr, you could turn it on it's head, and describe a very tranquil setting but with subtle hints that all is not well. A sunny day, with a dark cloud on the horizon. Or a bright afternoon, but with unusually gusty wind." }, { "answer_id": 66376, "author": "Xan Surnamehere", "author_id": 59957, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59957", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Show physical symptoms of uneasiness. Here are some quick examples I came up with:\n\"A bead of sweat dropped onto their shirt\", \"Fidgeting with a bracelet\", \"Nervously shifting their eyes around the small room\", \"Heart rate increasing\", \"Felt a knot in their stomach\".\n\nYou could also tell the reader that the character \"has a bad feeling\", but that doesn't add much to a story." }, { "answer_id": 66399, "author": "Anonymous Chicken", "author_id": 59991, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59991", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I would personally create the unease on the environment. Describe the environment the best you can but do it in a creepy way. Also, if you are involving people around the protagonist who are sketchy, make sure they look and sound that way. If that still does not create unease, put thoughts to the character too, convey what the character is feeling by internal monologue." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/65998", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59374/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66005, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "You should not do this at all.\n\nThis doesn't sound like a prologue, but an opening scene.\n\nThat said, your structure is all wrong. Your opening scene should be hero oriented.\n\nJK Rowling got away with a kludge in the first Hijrp Potfeq book (Sorcerer's Stone), introducing a lot of magical elements, but still focused on magicians saving the baby Hijrp Potfeq, whose magician parents were murdered, and placing him secretly in foster care with relatives where the killer would not find him. Chapter Two just jumps forward 10 years, to Herrl's tenth birthday.\n\nThis was prologue presented as a scene; about the only way to do it, and it seems to be what you are trying to do. But the focus of Rowling's Chapter 1 is definitely all about Herrl, the Hero readers are supposed to identify with.\n\nThe other adult magicians present in Chapter 1, like Dumbledore, are prominent characters we will see later. This helps introduce them. But no villains were depicted, except by reference. (Any villains would ruin the secrecy of where Herrl was hidden away; clearly the main villain tried to kill Herrl and failed.)\n\nThe person you focus on, in the first \"chapter\" or \"prologue\" or \"background\" or whatever that the audience sees, is going to be assumed as the focus of the entire story, the person the audience should follow.\n\nDo not make that the villain.\n\nI'd strongly recommend not writing a prologue at all. Stories typically open, for the first 10% to 15% of the story, on the hero and their \"Normal Life\" *before* some triggering event happens that upsets that normal life. (AKA the \"inciting incident\".)\n\nThe rest of the work is focused on the escalation of the problems caused by that inciting incident, etc.\n\nIn Rowling's first Hijrp Potfeq book, we can see that pattern starting in Chapter 2 (not 1, the disguised prologue), on Herrl's 10th birthday, when strange magical things start to happen to Herrl, and finally Hagrid the giant comes pounding on the front door to collect Herrl and escort him to Hogwart's.\n\nThe inciting incident is Herrl's birthday, he has come of age to start his formal wizarding school, and we the audience are introduced vicariously through the naive Herrl to a world of nearly constant magic everywhere all the time.\n\nIf you want to introduce your villain early from the villain's POV, change viewpoints for your Chapter 2. You don't have to alternate, but this is the \"natural\" way for the audience to experience the villain.\n\nHero POV first, Villain POV second.\n\nYou can alternate, or not, you can primarily focus on the Hero, but switch once in a while to the Villain POV. You are not necessarily trying to tell the Villain's story, but you might switch when the Hero first does something to attract the Villain's attention, like thwart a plan the Villain had, to piss off the Villain.\n\nThis is a harder story to write; but Spepfuj Kunw does it, e.g. in The Stand. 007 Movies do it frequently. But it is a bit harder because when you focus on the Villain, the audience expects to be privy to the Villain's decisions and strategic moves, and will feel \"cheated\" if the author fails to show Villain scenes where crucial decisions and/or mistakes are made by the Villain, and those in turn must be well justified.\n\nI think you could just as easily demonstrate your Villain's psychopathic disregard for life either indirectly (the Hero discovers a village with slaughtered children or something), or from the Hero POV: The Hero watches helplessly while the Villain kills people mercilessly.\n\nI would not open your story on the Villain. Best selling authors like Spepfuj Kunw or Rowling or Dal Xmowf with a huge guaranteed audience might get away with that. Publisher's trust them to know what they are doing and trust the audience to buy their stories sight unseen.\n\nAmateurs hoping to get published for the first time should stick to the script. Obviously new authors are getting published all the time; but publishers tend to want to minimize as much risk as possible on new authors. They want to see a new story with great writing and strong characters and scenes **but** in a very familiar *structure* that they know *works*." }, { "answer_id": 66011, "author": "codeMonkey", "author_id": 40325, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/40325", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "What are the Stakes?\n--------------------\n\nScenes are interesting because someone is taking a risk; I want something, but something else prevents me from getting it, so I take a risk, and a scene happens.\n\nAs you've described it, the villain is not taking any risks. They don't *want* anything. So the scene isn't engaging because the POV character isn't really engaged.\n\nThe Petitioner's Risk\n---------------------\n\nBut the **Petitioner** wants something. And they are certainly taking a risk. Re-frame the scene around the Petitioner. Do they understand the risk they're taking? Why do they take it? How do they feel about it?\n\nSeeing the Villain through the Petitioner's POV is probably going to show the readers a lot more of who the Villain really is, and it should be more fun." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66004", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59394/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66018, "author": "Boba Fit", "author_id": 57030, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57030", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "The only time you should insert anything into dialog in this manner is when you are explaining something about how they are speaking.\n\nGood: “The unified realm of my childhood,” she explained tensely as she paced in front of the audience, “had one councilor for all the districts.”\n\nThis gives information about the manner she is speaking and so guides your reader on how to understand the words. Maybe you could throw in some gestures like stroking her chin or clenching her fists or even indicating she had a dry mouth and so licked her lips to moisten them. She could yell or whisper or speak hesitantly or like a priest chanting a religious service. There are many other things.\n\nDon't get too excessive about it. Keep in mind that your reader has to follow you through the text to get the meaning of the sentence. Dialog should flow like a real person speaking. So you can insert things like indicating the speaker has paused and is doing something during the pause.\n\nGood: “The unified realm of my childhood,” she explained while serenely stirring her tea, “had one councilor for all the districts.”\n\nAgain, this paints the picture of how the speaker is behaving during the dialog.\n\nThere is not an absolute barrier between good and bad. Generally, the farther from describing the means of speaking, the more potentially troubling the interjection.\n\nBorderline: “The unified realm of my childhood,” she mused while recalling the festivals and fields of her youth, “had one councilor for all the districts.”\n\nThis one is potentially useful since it might indicate the speaker had a dreamy or distracted attitude. It would make sense if the speaker had an established history of speaking this way. Or you were working on establishing such.\n\nYour example goes too far afield.\n\n> \n> The unified realm of my childhood,” Hubykd hoped to avoid discussing the reasons for its disintegration; the children carried the blood of the traitor, and she carried more than her share of the scars, “had one councilor for all the districts.”\n> \n> \n> \n\nYou are talking about her hopes rather than her manner of speaking. And you are talking about other people and their characteristics, people that are not speaking.\n\nIf you want to get this information in, you should expand the dialog, or put the description outside the dialog. For example, if she wants to avoid a subject, show her avoiding the subject, possibly have somebody call her on it. Or have her explicitly say she does not want to talk about a subject and have her give a reason.\nOr have somebody else explain that the subject should be avoided.\n\nThe method you choose should be one that advances your story." }, { "answer_id": 66019, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "There are different methods of adding narrative and action beats with your dialogue.\n\nGrammatically, your example of comma splicing direct speech with descriptive text is incorrect.\n\nA comma is permissible when it is followed by a voice tag. For example:\n\n> \n> \"She sells seashells,\" said Dhidler, standing over Sandy's mutilated body.\n> \n> \n> \n\nor\n\n> \n> \"She sells seashells,\" Dhidler said, standing over Sandy's mutilated body.\n> \n> \n> \n\nYou can continue the dialogue after narrative with a comma\n\n> \n> \"She sells seashells,\" said Dhidler, standing over Sandy's mutilated body, \"down by the seashore.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nAnother option is using an em-dash to signal action with the direct speech.\n\n> \n> \"She sells seashells\" — Dhidler shook her head — \"down by seashore. Sandy. Her name's Sandy.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nThis kind of interrupt suggest a brief action and might indicate a pause in the direct speech or coincident with the speech." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66017", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59412/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66024, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "This sounds perfectly acceptable to me. It's quite common to have a prologue from a different character setting up the story ahead of the main character being introduced, even if a lot of the generic writing advice is 'start with the main character on line 1, page 1'.\n\nThe novel 'Wool' by Hugh Howey starts with:\n\n> \n> A chapter who seems like the main character, but is actually killed off quite quickly, and then we switch to a second 'main character'. It subverts reader expectations quite effectively.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe usual guidance does apply though - your prologue has to be interesting, hook people and not outstay it's welcome." }, { "answer_id": 66027, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I see two possibilities:\n\n**1.** The book is not about the son (and the father's life is just backstory), but about a family and how certain themes can continue across generations. For example, a story might begin with how a man fought in a war and how his experiences later influence the life of his son. The topic of the book then would not be the life of the son, but intergenerational influences. Another example might be the mental disorder of the sister of the mother and how her granddaughter suffers from a similar condition and how that affects everyone in the family.\n\nThere are many books like this and many readers love this kind of family story.\n\n**2.** The books narrates the life of the father, then switches protagonists and narrates the life of the son.\n\nI have never seen a book like this, and I would avoid it. Protagonist switching is something that many readers dislike and accept only in love stories (where the same story is told from the two persons falling in love) or epic fiction (where the same epos is told from different the viewpoint of different protagonists participating in different parts of the events, e.g. *The Lord of the Rings* after \"The breaking of the Fellowship\" or *The Song of Ice and Fire*).\n\nThe problem, from a reader perspective, with protagonist switiching is that the reader becomes invested in one character and will feel disappointed (or even misled) when they are forced to suddenly switch to a character they don't (yet) care about and to forget about the fate of the one they have come to care about. Reducing the protagonist the reader idendifies with and wants to see reach his goals to a mere sidekick will feel unsatisfactory.\n\nI would therefore always reduce backstory to the necessary minimum and let the reader discover it over the course of the story. Never begin a novel with an infodump in the form of a long prehistory." }, { "answer_id": 66042, "author": "raddevus", "author_id": 10723, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/10723", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "You may be able to answer your question about how well it works by asking yourself the following questions:\n\n**1.** Do you like it when an acquaintance begins to tell you a story about (for example) a car accident they were in and then says,\n\n> \n> \"oh, but to understand that you need to know about the kind of car I\n> was driving and how it was customized by a great little company out of\n> Charlotte, North Carolina. The guy who owns that business is a very\n> skilled craftsman, but he never attended any design college. When I\n> had the work done, the owner had an employee who was working on the\n> car and suddenly keeled over from a heart attack so the work was\n> delayed. But that was fine, because I was going to travel to India an\n> learn to meditate at an ashram. It was the same place that Beatles\n> had traveled to back in the 60s. Of course, there was a new guru\n> there because the old one had sadly passed on. Anyways, the employee who had the heart attack...\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nKeep in mind your acquaintance was telling you a story about a car wreck that recently happened. Do you like that kind of story? If not, consider telling the actual story you are telling instead of all the backstory stuff.\n\nXolg-trap story: I call these kinds of stories that an acquaintance starts spewing, a wolf-trap story, because most people would gnaw their left arm off to get out of having to listen to it. \n\n**2**. Do you read prologues to books? Some huge number of readers (like 80-90%) do not read them. I usually skip them. They are usually nonsense that the author is stuck on and usually skipping them does not affect my understanding of the story at all.\n\nI like stories that start, have a middle then end. Those are the most exciting. Sometimes, there are brilliant authors out there who can add some flashbacks that make sense and are enjoyable. But it is more rare than we all imagine." }, { "answer_id": 66071, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> Does this make sense, as in, a good way to handle a backstory that is necessary but does not easily fit into the \"main\" story?\n> \n> \n> \n\nFrame Challenge\n---------------\n\nYour question is too vague to answer without making some huge assumptions, so I take you at your word that you aren't sure this works as a prologue.\n\nHere are some alternatives:\n\nA flashback\n-----------\n\nKeep the son as the main character. He is young and self-absorbed, so we meet the world as he becomes aware of it. We don't shift perspective to the father until the son's conflict can't be resolved.\n\nWhy it works:\n\nThe father has been ever-present (?), but the son is too young to appreciate the stoic secret he's hidden. By the time the son is ready to hear the facts, reader is on the same page ready to learn what happened. It's not an 'infodump', it's 'answers' to questions that have been building.\n\nHints are laid, but Protagonist son is invested in a skewed version of events. What the father tells him works like a plot twist, shaking the son's worldview – people who were allies are now seen in a different light, and the son has to shed some of his firmest beliefs to proceed with the rest of his story.\n\nTell it with worldbuilding\n--------------------------\n\nVery elaborate history, but not compelling drama – or possibly somewhere between lore and a prequel. Something 'epic' happened, but somehow that's not the focus of *this* story. Maybe it's all crammed up front simply because it happened 'in the past', but the Chapter One situation is a status quo which the son's story is going to disrupt.\n\nIf it's all 'settled' and 'in the past', I suggest you amplify that feeling by warping your worldbuilding around that event. A traumatic event took place, which we don't talk about, but its consequences have left a scar, something un-healed. Maybe by keeping it un-defined it has mythic and psychodramatic implications. The monster is scarier in the dark, so keep the details unspoken but leave evidence for it everywhere.\n\nStock Fantasy in medias res\n---------------------------\n\nThe backstory is not the main story because it is a stock Fantasy lore compressed into a prologue. I suggest any 'stock' genre elements can be treated as tropes, relying on the reader's knowledge and imagination to fill-in. A few trope nods to other familiar stories sets the tone.\n\nThe reader doesn't need all the details to understand because it leans on clear signals, and feels like *in medias res*. The story opens with a lot of action and clear archetypes, but it's a no-win situation. We see glimpses of characters we'll get to know better later.\n\nThe opening scene of Star Wars is the perfect example, Girth Vedur captures Leia and we don't need a lot of explanation to follow the conflict. [Mary Stewert's Merlin trilogy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Stewart%27s_Merlin_Trilogy) also starts with a fast-paced escape before settling in to the main story many years later.\n\nIt's essentially the prologue, but streamlined and rolling down the hill on fire: all action, no stopping for explanations." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66023", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59415/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66024, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "This sounds perfectly acceptable to me. It's quite common to have a prologue from a different character setting up the story ahead of the main character being introduced, even if a lot of the generic writing advice is 'start with the main character on line 1, page 1'.\n\nThe novel 'Wool' by Hugh Howey starts with:\n\n> \n> A chapter who seems like the main character, but is actually killed off quite quickly, and then we switch to a second 'main character'. It subverts reader expectations quite effectively.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe usual guidance does apply though - your prologue has to be interesting, hook people and not outstay it's welcome." }, { "answer_id": 66027, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I see two possibilities:\n\n**1.** The book is not about the son (and the father's life is just backstory), but about a family and how certain themes can continue across generations. For example, a story might begin with how a man fought in a war and how his experiences later influence the life of his son. The topic of the book then would not be the life of the son, but intergenerational influences. Another example might be the mental disorder of the sister of the mother and how her granddaughter suffers from a similar condition and how that affects everyone in the family.\n\nThere are many books like this and many readers love this kind of family story.\n\n**2.** The books narrates the life of the father, then switches protagonists and narrates the life of the son.\n\nI have never seen a book like this, and I would avoid it. Protagonist switching is something that many readers dislike and accept only in love stories (where the same story is told from the two persons falling in love) or epic fiction (where the same epos is told from different the viewpoint of different protagonists participating in different parts of the events, e.g. *The Lord of the Rings* after \"The breaking of the Fellowship\" or *The Song of Ice and Fire*).\n\nThe problem, from a reader perspective, with protagonist switiching is that the reader becomes invested in one character and will feel disappointed (or even misled) when they are forced to suddenly switch to a character they don't (yet) care about and to forget about the fate of the one they have come to care about. Reducing the protagonist the reader idendifies with and wants to see reach his goals to a mere sidekick will feel unsatisfactory.\n\nI would therefore always reduce backstory to the necessary minimum and let the reader discover it over the course of the story. Never begin a novel with an infodump in the form of a long prehistory." }, { "answer_id": 66042, "author": "raddevus", "author_id": 10723, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/10723", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "You may be able to answer your question about how well it works by asking yourself the following questions:\n\n**1.** Do you like it when an acquaintance begins to tell you a story about (for example) a car accident they were in and then says,\n\n> \n> \"oh, but to understand that you need to know about the kind of car I\n> was driving and how it was customized by a great little company out of\n> Charlotte, North Carolina. The guy who owns that business is a very\n> skilled craftsman, but he never attended any design college. When I\n> had the work done, the owner had an employee who was working on the\n> car and suddenly keeled over from a heart attack so the work was\n> delayed. But that was fine, because I was going to travel to India an\n> learn to meditate at an ashram. It was the same place that Beatles\n> had traveled to back in the 60s. Of course, there was a new guru\n> there because the old one had sadly passed on. Anyways, the employee who had the heart attack...\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nKeep in mind your acquaintance was telling you a story about a car wreck that recently happened. Do you like that kind of story? If not, consider telling the actual story you are telling instead of all the backstory stuff.\n\nXolg-trap story: I call these kinds of stories that an acquaintance starts spewing, a wolf-trap story, because most people would gnaw their left arm off to get out of having to listen to it. \n\n**2**. Do you read prologues to books? Some huge number of readers (like 80-90%) do not read them. I usually skip them. They are usually nonsense that the author is stuck on and usually skipping them does not affect my understanding of the story at all.\n\nI like stories that start, have a middle then end. Those are the most exciting. Sometimes, there are brilliant authors out there who can add some flashbacks that make sense and are enjoyable. But it is more rare than we all imagine." }, { "answer_id": 66071, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> Does this make sense, as in, a good way to handle a backstory that is necessary but does not easily fit into the \"main\" story?\n> \n> \n> \n\nFrame Challenge\n---------------\n\nYour question is too vague to answer without making some huge assumptions, so I take you at your word that you aren't sure this works as a prologue.\n\nHere are some alternatives:\n\nA flashback\n-----------\n\nKeep the son as the main character. He is young and self-absorbed, so we meet the world as he becomes aware of it. We don't shift perspective to the father until the son's conflict can't be resolved.\n\nWhy it works:\n\nThe father has been ever-present (?), but the son is too young to appreciate the stoic secret he's hidden. By the time the son is ready to hear the facts, reader is on the same page ready to learn what happened. It's not an 'infodump', it's 'answers' to questions that have been building.\n\nHints are laid, but Protagonist son is invested in a skewed version of events. What the father tells him works like a plot twist, shaking the son's worldview – people who were allies are now seen in a different light, and the son has to shed some of his firmest beliefs to proceed with the rest of his story.\n\nTell it with worldbuilding\n--------------------------\n\nVery elaborate history, but not compelling drama – or possibly somewhere between lore and a prequel. Something 'epic' happened, but somehow that's not the focus of *this* story. Maybe it's all crammed up front simply because it happened 'in the past', but the Chapter One situation is a status quo which the son's story is going to disrupt.\n\nIf it's all 'settled' and 'in the past', I suggest you amplify that feeling by warping your worldbuilding around that event. A traumatic event took place, which we don't talk about, but its consequences have left a scar, something un-healed. Maybe by keeping it un-defined it has mythic and psychodramatic implications. The monster is scarier in the dark, so keep the details unspoken but leave evidence for it everywhere.\n\nStock Fantasy in medias res\n---------------------------\n\nThe backstory is not the main story because it is a stock Fantasy lore compressed into a prologue. I suggest any 'stock' genre elements can be treated as tropes, relying on the reader's knowledge and imagination to fill-in. A few trope nods to other familiar stories sets the tone.\n\nThe reader doesn't need all the details to understand because it leans on clear signals, and feels like *in medias res*. The story opens with a lot of action and clear archetypes, but it's a no-win situation. We see glimpses of characters we'll get to know better later.\n\nThe opening scene of Star Wars is the perfect example, Girth Vedur captures Leia and we don't need a lot of explanation to follow the conflict. [Mary Stewert's Merlin trilogy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Stewart%27s_Merlin_Trilogy) also starts with a fast-paced escape before settling in to the main story many years later.\n\nIt's essentially the prologue, but streamlined and rolling down the hill on fire: all action, no stopping for explanations." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66025", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59424/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66024, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "This sounds perfectly acceptable to me. It's quite common to have a prologue from a different character setting up the story ahead of the main character being introduced, even if a lot of the generic writing advice is 'start with the main character on line 1, page 1'.\n\nThe novel 'Wool' by Hugh Howey starts with:\n\n> \n> A chapter who seems like the main character, but is actually killed off quite quickly, and then we switch to a second 'main character'. It subverts reader expectations quite effectively.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe usual guidance does apply though - your prologue has to be interesting, hook people and not outstay it's welcome." }, { "answer_id": 66027, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I see two possibilities:\n\n**1.** The book is not about the son (and the father's life is just backstory), but about a family and how certain themes can continue across generations. For example, a story might begin with how a man fought in a war and how his experiences later influence the life of his son. The topic of the book then would not be the life of the son, but intergenerational influences. Another example might be the mental disorder of the sister of the mother and how her granddaughter suffers from a similar condition and how that affects everyone in the family.\n\nThere are many books like this and many readers love this kind of family story.\n\n**2.** The books narrates the life of the father, then switches protagonists and narrates the life of the son.\n\nI have never seen a book like this, and I would avoid it. Protagonist switching is something that many readers dislike and accept only in love stories (where the same story is told from the two persons falling in love) or epic fiction (where the same epos is told from different the viewpoint of different protagonists participating in different parts of the events, e.g. *The Lord of the Rings* after \"The breaking of the Fellowship\" or *The Song of Ice and Fire*).\n\nThe problem, from a reader perspective, with protagonist switiching is that the reader becomes invested in one character and will feel disappointed (or even misled) when they are forced to suddenly switch to a character they don't (yet) care about and to forget about the fate of the one they have come to care about. Reducing the protagonist the reader idendifies with and wants to see reach his goals to a mere sidekick will feel unsatisfactory.\n\nI would therefore always reduce backstory to the necessary minimum and let the reader discover it over the course of the story. Never begin a novel with an infodump in the form of a long prehistory." }, { "answer_id": 66042, "author": "raddevus", "author_id": 10723, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/10723", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "You may be able to answer your question about how well it works by asking yourself the following questions:\n\n**1.** Do you like it when an acquaintance begins to tell you a story about (for example) a car accident they were in and then says,\n\n> \n> \"oh, but to understand that you need to know about the kind of car I\n> was driving and how it was customized by a great little company out of\n> Charlotte, North Carolina. The guy who owns that business is a very\n> skilled craftsman, but he never attended any design college. When I\n> had the work done, the owner had an employee who was working on the\n> car and suddenly keeled over from a heart attack so the work was\n> delayed. But that was fine, because I was going to travel to India an\n> learn to meditate at an ashram. It was the same place that Beatles\n> had traveled to back in the 60s. Of course, there was a new guru\n> there because the old one had sadly passed on. Anyways, the employee who had the heart attack...\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nKeep in mind your acquaintance was telling you a story about a car wreck that recently happened. Do you like that kind of story? If not, consider telling the actual story you are telling instead of all the backstory stuff.\n\nXolg-trap story: I call these kinds of stories that an acquaintance starts spewing, a wolf-trap story, because most people would gnaw their left arm off to get out of having to listen to it. \n\n**2**. Do you read prologues to books? Some huge number of readers (like 80-90%) do not read them. I usually skip them. They are usually nonsense that the author is stuck on and usually skipping them does not affect my understanding of the story at all.\n\nI like stories that start, have a middle then end. Those are the most exciting. Sometimes, there are brilliant authors out there who can add some flashbacks that make sense and are enjoyable. But it is more rare than we all imagine." }, { "answer_id": 66071, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> Does this make sense, as in, a good way to handle a backstory that is necessary but does not easily fit into the \"main\" story?\n> \n> \n> \n\nFrame Challenge\n---------------\n\nYour question is too vague to answer without making some huge assumptions, so I take you at your word that you aren't sure this works as a prologue.\n\nHere are some alternatives:\n\nA flashback\n-----------\n\nKeep the son as the main character. He is young and self-absorbed, so we meet the world as he becomes aware of it. We don't shift perspective to the father until the son's conflict can't be resolved.\n\nWhy it works:\n\nThe father has been ever-present (?), but the son is too young to appreciate the stoic secret he's hidden. By the time the son is ready to hear the facts, reader is on the same page ready to learn what happened. It's not an 'infodump', it's 'answers' to questions that have been building.\n\nHints are laid, but Protagonist son is invested in a skewed version of events. What the father tells him works like a plot twist, shaking the son's worldview – people who were allies are now seen in a different light, and the son has to shed some of his firmest beliefs to proceed with the rest of his story.\n\nTell it with worldbuilding\n--------------------------\n\nVery elaborate history, but not compelling drama – or possibly somewhere between lore and a prequel. Something 'epic' happened, but somehow that's not the focus of *this* story. Maybe it's all crammed up front simply because it happened 'in the past', but the Chapter One situation is a status quo which the son's story is going to disrupt.\n\nIf it's all 'settled' and 'in the past', I suggest you amplify that feeling by warping your worldbuilding around that event. A traumatic event took place, which we don't talk about, but its consequences have left a scar, something un-healed. Maybe by keeping it un-defined it has mythic and psychodramatic implications. The monster is scarier in the dark, so keep the details unspoken but leave evidence for it everywhere.\n\nStock Fantasy in medias res\n---------------------------\n\nThe backstory is not the main story because it is a stock Fantasy lore compressed into a prologue. I suggest any 'stock' genre elements can be treated as tropes, relying on the reader's knowledge and imagination to fill-in. A few trope nods to other familiar stories sets the tone.\n\nThe reader doesn't need all the details to understand because it leans on clear signals, and feels like *in medias res*. The story opens with a lot of action and clear archetypes, but it's a no-win situation. We see glimpses of characters we'll get to know better later.\n\nThe opening scene of Star Wars is the perfect example, Girth Vedur captures Leia and we don't need a lot of explanation to follow the conflict. [Mary Stewert's Merlin trilogy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Stewart%27s_Merlin_Trilogy) also starts with a fast-paced escape before settling in to the main story many years later.\n\nIt's essentially the prologue, but streamlined and rolling down the hill on fire: all action, no stopping for explanations." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66031", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59085/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66037, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "I think you're doing it right\n-----------------------------\n\n* You have one speaker per paragraph.\n* Who speaking is clear.\n* You are using action beats to imply who is speaking, instead of only using 'said' tags.\n* You've incorporated character actions and reactions with their dialogue -- that is a strong pattern to create an immersive experience." }, { "answer_id": 66038, "author": "Mary", "author_id": 44281, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/44281", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "I think I would break out the first dialog line into its own paragraph. This is because that opens with \"Adellyn or her partner Qhea\" and thus it's relying only on the second sentence to make it clear that it's Adellyn's comment. Action and dialog should hang together as a unit.\n\n(Also beware of doing everything as action bit, dialog line. Mix it up a bit with naked lines of dialog, with \"he said\" if necessary to be clear.)" }, { "answer_id": 66039, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I would break your text into paragraphs exactly they way you have done.\n\n---\n\nOne of the most common definitions of a paragraph is that it has one grammatical subject and one topic. Whenever the subject or topic switch, a new paragraph begins.\n\nIn dialogue, whenever the speaker changes, that is a change in grammatical subject: there is a different person acting. For example:\n\n> \n> \"Hello!\"   [← speech] \n> \n> \"Hi.\"        [← and reply in two paragraphs]\n> \n> \n> \n\nIn one paragraph one person is talking, in the other, another. The topic remains the same over the two paragraphs: two people greet each other. If only one person spoke, the same topic could be narrated in a single paragraph:\n\n> \n> \"Hello!\" Zotn said. Parr nodded in reply.   [← speech and nonverbal reply] \n> \n> Zotn shrugged and walked over to KiteMT. \"What's with Parr?\" he asked and took the glass, that KiteMT offered.\n> \n> \n> \n\nYou would keep the topic 'Parr nods in reply to Zotn's greeting' in one paragraph, if the next paragraph contained a completely different topic, as in the example above. If the next paragraph was another utterance by the first speaker in reply to Parr nodding, you might rather have Parr nodding in her own paragraph, to better signify the turntaking:\n\n> \n> \"Hello!\" Zotn said. \n> \n> Parr nodded. \n> \n> \"You lost your voice?\" Zotn teased.\n> \n> \n> \n\nSpeaking can be part of a more complex action and become embedded within one paragraph:\n\n> \n> Zotn shook his head in disbelief. With a tired sigh he pulled the gun and pointed it at Toby. \"You better give me your money, pal.\" He smirked, thinking Toby would certainly give in now. After all, he wouldn't want a hole in his hide, would he? \"You better hurry. I ain't got all day.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nIn this paragraph, the topic is Zotn threatening Toby with a gun in reaction to something in the preceding paragraph. The speaking is only part of that action.\n\nThe grammatical subject can remain the same and only the topic changes, breaking the text into a new paragraph:\n\n> \n> It took Toby a long time to make up his mind. He considered whether Zotn really would have the guts to shoot him. Toby knew Zotn to be a clearheaded person who thought in the long term. Zotn surely wouldn't want to go to jail over a couple of hundred dollars that Toby owed him. On the other hand Zotn seemed oncommonly cold and uncaring today. Something must have happened that had changed him. There was a chance that Zotn really would pull the trigger. \n> \n>      But Toby needed that money. He hadn't robbed the bank for fun. His grandmother was ill and needed the money for her treatment. Toby loved his grandmother more than he loved his own life, and finally he came to a conclusion. \"You'll have to shoot me, if you want that money, Zotn. I'm not giving it to you.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nHere, the thoughts of Toby take a turn and he thinks about something else in the second paragraph.\n\n---\n\nBut paragraphs aren't defined by their content alone. Paragraphs also have the function to help orient the reader on the page. If the page is a wall of unbroken text – of if it contains only one and two word replies of one speaker to another – the reader will easily lose their place and skip to a wrong line (or forget who is speaking) when their attention wavers.\n\nTherefore, long content-paragraphs are often broken into visual paragraphs even if the grammatical subject and the topic remain the same. And therefore every now and then insert the name of one of the speakers in long stretches of dialogue.\n\n---\n\nAnd a remark that has nothing to do with paragraphs:\n\n> \n> Adellyn or her partner Qhea had never ...\n> \n> \n> \n\nI'd write:\n\n> \n> *Neither* Adellyn *nor* her partner Qhea had *ever* ...\n> \n> \n> \n\nOr:\n\n> \n> Adellyn *and* her partner Qhea had *never* ...\n> \n> \n>" }, { "answer_id": 66040, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Your first paragraph in your sample needs some work, as generally, quoted dialog should only open or close a paragraph. If there is physical action going on during the quote, it should be contained to the middle of the paragraph. If it happens before the dialog, then the quote needs to be contained entirely to the end of the paragraph and likewise if it happens immediately before.\n\nWhile dialog is an action, it's generally considered a \"Free Action\" which means a physical action can take place (so long as it doesn't involve the mouth) in a near simultaneous instant, which is what a single paragraph represents. Talking with your mouth full can happen but distorts the dialog (putting food in your mouth should happen before you talk with your mouth full.).\n\nSee the below quote for the changes to your first paragraph:\n\n> \n> Adellyn **and** her partner Qhea had never ridden in a limo as luxurious as this. The dress their boss had insisted she wear rode up to an almost indecent height.\n> \n> \n> “Remind me again why the agency chose me for this mission?” she asked, as she tugged on the dress to force it back down.\n> \n> \n> \n\nNotice how the thought of the Tipo and the description of the dress were separated from Adellyn and her adjusting her dress. Technically the line about the limo and the dress should be spread out (why was the limo luxurious. What does the dress look like... beyond it being too short? Describe both. Either way, the narrator would not be able to describe all three actions in a single motion, so they need some separation.\n\nAs others have mentioned, you seem to be avoiding the word \"said.\" Which is actually a problem. If you want a non-speaking action (said, asked, screamed, shouted, wailed, ect). Then the dialog shoud end without a comma and a dialog tag and move straight to the immediate action. But, recall that the actions that happen with the dialog is best handled in between the dialog.\n\nFinally, you'll notice I bolded \"and\" because or is illogical. The word \"And\" implies both joined phrases are equally true (Adellyn never had been in a limo. Qhea had never been in a Tipo) while \"Or\" only requires one of the phrases to be true (Adellyn has never and Qhea has OR Adellyn has and Qhea has never OR both have never.). Another phrase that could be used and would flow better is \"Neither Adellyn nor her partner Qhea...\" This isn't answering your question, but it struck me as not getting the clear message across.\n\nObserve the changes I made in the third paragraph\n\n> \n> “Seems like everyone’s forgotten about Fiunu,\" Adellyn said, with an unladylike snorted. She shifted in her seat again. \"She’d look just as good in this dress with her golden blonde hair and tan skin. Plus, she’s used to wearing them.”\n> \n> \n> \n\nOr\n\n> \n> “Seems like everyone’s forgotten about Fiunu. She’d look just as good in this dress with her golden blonde hair and tan skin,\" Adellyn said, with an unladylike snorted. She shifted in her seat again. \"Plus, she’s used to wearing them.”\n> \n> \n> \n\nIn both rewrites, Adellyn is given a said tag as the actions happen at the same time she is speaking. The only difference between them is where the pause in her dialog is given for dramatic effect. Personally, when I dialog, I prefer to lead into the narrative break with the thesis of the quote dialog (everyone forgot Fiunu), then follow up with the arguments (The dress would be a better fit for Fiunu, and Fiunu is more used to wearing this type of clothing and presumably more comfortable.) but there is no hard rule The second rewrite gives an interpretation of the first argument in support of the thesis is something that she has ready to go, while the second argument is more improvised to further assist her singular point, or defelect from an implied negative inference by making it appear more logical (the dress would be better on Fiunu implies either a jealousy over Fiunu being more attractive or accidentally insulting herself by implying she thinks she looks ugly).\n\nYou'll also notice that I broke up your first sentance. The action of the first sentence is the third person past tense form of the verb \"To Say\" (or \"DaedUW\" if you want to put a fine point on it.) The subject is \"She\" or Adellyn and the Predicate of \"said\" is the entire quote. The description of how she said it (\"with an unladylike snort\") is an adverbial phrase, describing the way she \"said\" the quote. None of this has anything to do with the simultaneous action of \"shifting in her seat\", so we broke it out into a second sentence, to avoid a run on sentence.\n\nYou may also notice that in both rewrites, shifting in her seat is ended with a period, and not a comma leading into the next quote. Again. You can not talk by shifting in your seat, so the dialog is not part of this sentence. Rather, the quote is a sentence in full, with an implied \"She said\" since there is no indication that anyone has begun to respond.\n\nWhen writing a dialog between 2 people (C1 and C2), you can establish a patter such that you can avoid running multiple said tags by implying establishing a back and forth pattern of paragraphs (Paragraph one (p1) is stated to be C1 dialog. P2 is C2 dialog, and every subsequent dialog paragraph follows this odd/even paragraph.\" However, you should not get into this habit as any new characters joining in OR third characters already present need to be accounted for and you can not imply conversations with 3 or more characters." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66036", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59440/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66054, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "A million years is a long time, even on evolutionary time scales\n----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nModern humans would find our ancestors from 1 M BCE impossible to understand — because the different skull and jaw shapes would produce different phonemes\n\nI think, as the author you need to decide how your future humans have evolved. Maybe humans evolved narrower range of hearing or different ranges of hearing. With different tongues and shapes of jaws and skull.\n\nFrom the different morphology, you can select their current phonemes and make up new phonemes. From the eliminated phonemes you can identify which words your future humans wouldn’t understand and which they could\n\nAs for changes in the language and how people speak, there are a few examples of how you might handle this — The Stone God Lives by Jose Farmer and The Soldier of Tomorrow by Harlan Ellison have characters facing similar situations.\n\nThe question is not so much what English sounds like but how our perception of sound as speech are conditioned by our culture and its norms and it jargon and slang. Fortunately, for you, that plays into your hands as the author. You get to decide if you future people speak super fast or in a highly structured way. Then the POV character interprets its by their standards and expectations" }, { "answer_id": 66056, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "“Prisencolinensinainciusol”\n---------------------------\n\nAmerican sounds like **“Prisencolinensinainciusol”** according to Adriano Celentano who recorded an Italian pop song constructed from American-sounding syllables.\n\nfrom the Wiki page: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisencolinensinainciusol>\n\n> \n> The song is intended to sound to its Italian audience as if it is sung\n> in English spoken with an American accent, however the lyrics are\n> deliberately unintelligible gibberish with the exception of the words\n> \"all right\".\n> \n> \n> \n\nI'd go a step further and say \"all right\" (the only recognizable phrase) is more like \"awwrite\", which is a meaningless idiom in Americanese that simply acknowledges that something was heard, or a low-key confirmation that something was understood (uh-huh, OK, yeah-yeah).\n\nExtrapolating: I suggest you find some of these phrases, meaningless idioms that she might say often, and make it a personal quirk catchphrase that she is saying unconsciously, and then do a reductive interpretation of the syllables in the way she would say it.\n\n\"You get me?\" – Yugit mie \n\n\"And what...\" – Ant Dwot \n\n\"Oh my god!\" – Ommigawd\n\nSatire\n------\n\nIf 1,000,000 years (an awfully long time) is a hint that this is satire or comedic, you might pick an anachronistic phrase that suits the theme of this future along the lines of Aldous Luxjiy's satirical *Model T worship* in **Brave New World**.\n\nLuxjiy combined (probably) the Catholic gesture 'sign of the cross' with Ford's Model T to suggest a society that views *industrialization* on the level of religion. A Model T no longer stands for progress, so that metaphor is lost today but was well-understood at the time.\n\nSomething like a meme or advertising jingle having been elevated to an idiom in her timeline." }, { "answer_id": 66060, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "American English is remarkable for its broad vowels, especially [/æ/ raising](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//%C3%A6/_raising), and its [rhotic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English) /r/.\n\nEnglish in general sounds slurred or garbled to foreigners. It contains many [sibilants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibilant)." }, { "answer_id": 66074, "author": "Marina", "author_id": 59271, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59271", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I'll give you my point of view as a Spanish from Spain speaker with no knowledge about linguistics.First, about English and then about American English.\n\nEnglish generally sounds lower in pitch. The same person speaking English will use a lower pitch for speaking English and a higher pitch to speak Spanish. It sounds also more lower pitch than French and probably Italian.\n\nIn the inside, the mouth is opened different when speaking English and it sounds a little bit as if you had your mouth filled with food. Indeed, I remember playing this joke at junior school(filling our mouths with food and speaking English).\n\nMuch later, when I started to discriminate different English accents, I found American accent to be very musical as opposed to British accent, which I found quite harsh. American accent flows and the intonation is pleasant. British accent is like plenty of sounds that interrupt the flow. I know that American speakers usually find British accent sexy. After many years of listening I can understand why, but it wasn't my first impression at all." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66052", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59478/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66059, "author": "Kate Gregory", "author_id": 15601, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15601", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "When you use a noun - slave, prisoner, billionaire -- to refer to a person, you are assigning them an identity, you are saying this is what they **are**. There are some people these days who feel that this erases the fact that someone actually did this to them. It lets the enslaver disappear almost as though they merely harvested a resource. By saying \"enslaved people\" you re-emphasize that these were in fact people and that someone chose to enslave them. Not to *turn them into* slaves, to somehow change their identity, but to do something to them that took away the freedoms and rights they should have been entitled to.\n\nThat's why the phrasing is gaining popularity. Are you wrong to continue to use the word slaves? No. It's not like \"the n word\" or \"the r word\" or other words we no longer say. Should you take a moment and think about the enslavers in the story you are telling and what they did? Probably, yes.\n\nAnother note: dehumanizing and derogatory are different. Both \"short\" and \"stupid\" can be derogatory, but when you call someone those adjectives, we all agree they are still people. Some words leave a faint nuance that the target you identify with them is somehow not quite a person, that they have a different, lesser identity. Like companies that call their people \"resources\" or \"headcount\" as fungible and interchangeable things whose humanity doesn't matter to the company, or generals who call dead soldiers \"losses\". I am not sure something as lampshaded as \"include the word person or people so everyone remembers they were people\" is the only way to solve this, but that's what Grammarly is saying to you.\n\nYou won't be wrong to use the word slaves, especially for younger readers (less syllables.) But it doesn't hurt to think about who and what they were before someone enslaved them, and consider adjusting your words a little." }, { "answer_id": 66125, "author": "Dario Quint", "author_id": 59565, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59565", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "I would argue you're better off using the word \"slaves\" in most instances. While calling them \"enslaved persons\" does emphasize the fact that they were enslaved by someone ELSE the simple fact is that by emphasizing that \"else\" you're also taking emphasis away from the enslaved person. That they are simply a thing-that-was-enslaved and that the reader should always be thinking about the one who enslaved them instead of focusing purely on the slave. Additionally in your case, writing for younger readers, you're adding complication to the text. You presumably will be guiding them through discussion of the paper, and therefor can hammer home the fact that these people are more than \"just\" slaves. So the theoretical need to reinforce that in the text continuously seems superfluous in this instance. Maybe use \"enslaved persons\" once or twice, or when referring to an entire group/society, but no need to replace all or even most of the instances of \"slave\" in your text.\n\nIn academia there is a movement towards \"enslaved persons\" but there is plenty of recent scholarly work that still uses \"slaves\" or \"slave\" either in conjunction with or to the exclusion of \"enslaved persons.\"" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66057", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/3375/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66067, "author": "M. A. Golding", "author_id": 37093, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/37093", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "It is correct to write 503 as \"five zero three\" or \"five hundred and three\".\n\nBut it is common to say \"five oh three\" for 503. So if the dialog is supposed to reproduce what people say it will probably be \"five oh three\"." }, { "answer_id": 66070, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "In a style choice, choose familiarity.\n--------------------------------------\n\nWriting a fictional story is about communicating *ideas* to the reader. The words are not *decorative* like a certificate or signage, and they are not accurately *phonetic* like documentation or a language translation.\n\nIdealy, the text should *disappear* as the reader becomes engaged. Try not to do awkward things with fonts or word-choice or spellings that would knock the reader out of their concentration.\n\nNumbers as words\n----------------\n\nCertain numeric 'formats' are so familiar we recognize them out of context. You can easily guess which is the correct format (and which are very wrong) even without the spoiler reveal:\n\n> \n> **an address**\n> \n> \n> \n\n503 Elm St \n\nFive Ohh Three, Elm Street \n\nFive-hundred-and-third Elm Street\n\n> \n> **a time**\n> \n> \n> \n\n5:03 PM \n\n503 P. M. \n\nFive-oh-three, pee-emm\n\n> \n> **a phone number**\n> \n> \n> \n\n555-1211 \n\nFive-five-five twelve eleven \n\nFive million, five-hundred and fifty-one-thousand, two-hundred and eleven\n\nWe read addresses and phone numbers as a 'number word', grasping them as a concept (a location) instead of a string of arbitrary digits –– other numbers (like bank accounts) feel like a string of arbitrary digits.\n\nInformation or Style\n--------------------\n\nSome of my bad formats above are so un-familiar the brain trips over them. Maybe the eye needs to go back and re-read – it's so disruptive the actual information (the location) is hard to remember. That's almost always a bad thing.\n\nLocation names that follow convention are just easier to understand. Apartment 503 is directly above 403, and across the corridor from 504. These numbers don't feel arbitrary. In a murder mystery logistics should be important.\n\nBut there are always exceptions for style-choice where the style is the information –– \"5 *OH* 3\", \"Fiddy-o'fee\" –– the thing communicated is more than just the straight apartment number, it's a hint or a tell....\n\nThe usual advice is to **pick a style and be consistent**, but in a murder mystery some change in style might be a clue?" }, { "answer_id": 66072, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "The common rule that I learned is that in *fiction* you write out numbers as words.\n\nIn its traditional form a narrative is something that someone can speak. Historically, tales were told, not read, and even today parents read books to children and many \"readers\" listen to audiobooks. Research has even found out, that the vast majority of readers subvocalize the text, that is, the muscles in the human vocal tract move while you are reading in the same way they would if you were speaking what you read, only less intensely. Suppressing subvocalization seems to hamper reading fluency and understanding.\n\nFor that reason, a traditional narrative must consist of what may be spoken – and the convention is to use the words the reader would speak right away, instead of symbols like numerical digits.\n\nBut there have always been nonverbal elements in written texts – such as the \"plot lines\" in Sterne's *Tristram Shandy* – and fiction has developed in recent years and today includes \"unspeakable\" elements such as meaningful formatting (for example as a Messenger conversation with smileys) more and more often.\n\nTherefore, in my opinion, you are facing a choice: Do you want to write and format your text in a more traditional style? Then write numbers as words. Or do you want to use non-verbal elements for a specific effect? Then think about what effect you are trying to achive (for example, you might want to evoke a visual image of the room number in the mind of the reader) and write and format your text accordingly (for example, with numerical digits). But keep in mind that the more you deviate from convention, the more your reader might stumble over those deviations." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66065", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59505/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66067, "author": "M. A. Golding", "author_id": 37093, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/37093", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "It is correct to write 503 as \"five zero three\" or \"five hundred and three\".\n\nBut it is common to say \"five oh three\" for 503. So if the dialog is supposed to reproduce what people say it will probably be \"five oh three\"." }, { "answer_id": 66070, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "In a style choice, choose familiarity.\n--------------------------------------\n\nWriting a fictional story is about communicating *ideas* to the reader. The words are not *decorative* like a certificate or signage, and they are not accurately *phonetic* like documentation or a language translation.\n\nIdealy, the text should *disappear* as the reader becomes engaged. Try not to do awkward things with fonts or word-choice or spellings that would knock the reader out of their concentration.\n\nNumbers as words\n----------------\n\nCertain numeric 'formats' are so familiar we recognize them out of context. You can easily guess which is the correct format (and which are very wrong) even without the spoiler reveal:\n\n> \n> **an address**\n> \n> \n> \n\n503 Elm St \n\nFive Ohh Three, Elm Street \n\nFive-hundred-and-third Elm Street\n\n> \n> **a time**\n> \n> \n> \n\n5:03 PM \n\n503 P. M. \n\nFive-oh-three, pee-emm\n\n> \n> **a phone number**\n> \n> \n> \n\n555-1211 \n\nFive-five-five twelve eleven \n\nFive million, five-hundred and fifty-one-thousand, two-hundred and eleven\n\nWe read addresses and phone numbers as a 'number word', grasping them as a concept (a location) instead of a string of arbitrary digits –– other numbers (like bank accounts) feel like a string of arbitrary digits.\n\nInformation or Style\n--------------------\n\nSome of my bad formats above are so un-familiar the brain trips over them. Maybe the eye needs to go back and re-read – it's so disruptive the actual information (the location) is hard to remember. That's almost always a bad thing.\n\nLocation names that follow convention are just easier to understand. Apartment 503 is directly above 403, and across the corridor from 504. These numbers don't feel arbitrary. In a murder mystery logistics should be important.\n\nBut there are always exceptions for style-choice where the style is the information –– \"5 *OH* 3\", \"Fiddy-o'fee\" –– the thing communicated is more than just the straight apartment number, it's a hint or a tell....\n\nThe usual advice is to **pick a style and be consistent**, but in a murder mystery some change in style might be a clue?" }, { "answer_id": 66072, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "The common rule that I learned is that in *fiction* you write out numbers as words.\n\nIn its traditional form a narrative is something that someone can speak. Historically, tales were told, not read, and even today parents read books to children and many \"readers\" listen to audiobooks. Research has even found out, that the vast majority of readers subvocalize the text, that is, the muscles in the human vocal tract move while you are reading in the same way they would if you were speaking what you read, only less intensely. Suppressing subvocalization seems to hamper reading fluency and understanding.\n\nFor that reason, a traditional narrative must consist of what may be spoken – and the convention is to use the words the reader would speak right away, instead of symbols like numerical digits.\n\nBut there have always been nonverbal elements in written texts – such as the \"plot lines\" in Sterne's *Tristram Shandy* – and fiction has developed in recent years and today includes \"unspeakable\" elements such as meaningful formatting (for example as a Messenger conversation with smileys) more and more often.\n\nTherefore, in my opinion, you are facing a choice: Do you want to write and format your text in a more traditional style? Then write numbers as words. Or do you want to use non-verbal elements for a specific effect? Then think about what effect you are trying to achive (for example, you might want to evoke a visual image of the room number in the mind of the reader) and write and format your text accordingly (for example, with numerical digits). But keep in mind that the more you deviate from convention, the more your reader might stumble over those deviations." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66075", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59271/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66079, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 2, "selected": true, "text": "The [Abbreviated Injury Scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbreviated_Injury_Scale) classifies the severity of injuries using the following adjectives:\n\n* minor\n* moderate\n* serious\n* severe\n* critical\n* maximal (= untreatable)\n\nThe severity is combined with codes for the injury type (whole area, vessels, nerves etc.) and location (head, face, neck etc.). See the linked Wikipedia article (or numerous other web resources) for more detail." }, { "answer_id": 66083, "author": "Mousentrude", "author_id": 44421, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/44421", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Frame challenge\n---------------\n\nI can see what you’re trying to do, but I don’t think a rankable, intuitive, ballpark level will be easy to achieve:\n\n* Average English speakers don’t necessarily agree on what injuries are more severe (because they don’t have the medical knowledge). For example, for me, ‘injured’ is an umbrella term that covers everything up to long-term disability. You obviously thought differently when you made your scale.\n* One type of injury can be more or less severe and lead to different levels of functional impairment: if I’m bruised all over after a fall, I’ll be in more pain than if I’ve got a single bruise on my arm, and I would likely experience difficulty with movement, whereas a single bruise to the leg would have no impact.\n* It’s not possible to have a single scale that covers levels of functional impairment across all parts of the body: a broken finger is nowhere near as serious as a broken pelvis; a sprained ankle isn’t as serious as a bruised kidney.\n* You talk about wanting flavour. Although you say that it doesn’t matter if the adjective doesn’t go with the body part, as a role player I would be put off by a description of a broken eye or a sprained head. I just wouldn’t know what you meant. I’m not even a particularly literal kind of person, but injuries are specific things: if you say I have a broken arm, that’s the kind of pain I’m going to imagine and I would expect appropriate limitations on what I can do.\n\n**Alternative solution**\n------------------------\n\nPerhaps instead of an injury scale, you could consider using a descriptive pain scale like the one here (from the [Hand Center](https://msapc.com/hand-center/aftercare/pain-management/)'s website).\n\n[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/r4iVg.png)\n\nThe levels give a pretty good indication of functional impairment based on the amount of pain experienced, and can be applied to whatever body part was injured. This would be great for players, who immediately know how much they can do and how much to complain." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66078", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59516/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66081, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 4, "selected": false, "text": "I don't know that there is a rule, but \"The\" clutters the manuscript and adds nothing to the narrative. Just FRENCHMAN and ENGLISHWOMAN would serve better.\n\nAlso, \"The Frenchman said:\" is wrong, you just start with the tag:\n\nFRENCHMAN:\nWell, didn't I say it would take them less than a week?\"\n\nYou seem to be trying to make the text more readable, but to a script reader, including actors, this is *less* readable.\n\nThey are looking for their own lines, with their character names in CAPS. The script is not intended to be read like a novel.\n\nYou seem to be trying to cross a novel with a screenplay; and any professional script reader will reject this on the first page. Authors that can't be bothered to put their scripts in the standard expected form, with proper capitalization, setting descriptions, and margins (margins margins margins!) are rejected at first sight, and will not be read.\n\nThere is plenty of free instruction online for the proper form. If you want to be read and produced, I highly recommend you follow it." }, { "answer_id": 66084, "author": "Boba Fit", "author_id": 57030, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57030", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "If you are writing a script for a play, the name of the speaker should be as short as reasonably possible such that the character is still identified. It isn't actually part of the play, it's a key for the actors. So \"The Frenchman:\" and \"The Englishman:\" might be shortened to \"Frn:\" and \"Eng:\" for example.\n\nIf you are writing prose and dialog with people referring to each other and especially to people not present, it may be that you keep the article. \"Here comes The Prince.\"\n\n> \n> The Prince entered the room. The Englishman bowed with formality. The Frenchman gave only a shallow and perfunctory bow.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThis effectively changes the terms to titles. Which, of course, brings us to character names that include an article. One of my favorite SF shows is *Doctor Who.* The lead character is The Doctor. His long-term opponent is The Master. (Lately, The Mistress.) And, if we are not careful, it brings us to the Canadian TV series *Letterkenny* in which there is a character only ever referred to as \"The Ginger.\"\n\nIf you are using title-like indicators for characters, you should be careful not to confuse your readers by jumping between their name and title. If the Prince is named Tuurge, then you should be careful to tell people this a few times before you start switching between The Prince and Tuurge. Maybe refer to Prince Tuurge a few times before you put him in a family situation where his older sister starts talking to just Tuurge." }, { "answer_id": 66085, "author": "IMSoP", "author_id": 32432, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/32432", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> The tradition of dropping the definite article in dramatic dialogue ...\n> \n> \n> \n\nDialogue occurs in many forms of writing, in many styles. The style you are looking at is a traditional way of writing out *scripts*, which are *instructions for actors to perform from*. The names of characters are abbreviated, capitalised, and offset with punctuation, but no quotation marks.\n\n> \n> FRENCHMAN: Well, didn't I say it would take them less than a week?\n> \n> \n> ENGLISHWOMAN: That wasn't the bet\n> \n> \n> FRENCHMAN: Of course it was. What are you talking about?\n> \n> \n> ENGLISHWOMAN: You said, three days. Not the same thing.\n> \n> \n> FRENCHMAN: Oh, no. Pedantic? You?\n> \n> \n> \n\nThis is a utilitarian choice, not a stylistic one: it helps the actor pick out the parts that apply to them, and follow the general shape of the scene.\n\n> \n> If you were writing a story and came to a point in which two characters engaged in friendly banter ...\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe general style used in English *prose fiction* is to use quoted text and \"dialogue tags\", with each change of speaker marked by a paragraph break. In that style, the dialogue tags obey the normal grammar of the language, so definite articles would be used naturally.\n\nFor a conversation between two characters, dialogue tags are generally used only at the beginning and where useful to convey body language, tone, etc - the reader will assume the speakers are alternating until told otherwise.\n\n> \n> \"Well, didn't I say it would take them less than a week?\", said the Frenchman.\n> \n> \n> \"That wasn't the bet\", said the Englishwoman.\n> \n> \n> \"Of course it was. What are you talking about?\"\n> \n> \n> \"You said, three days. Not the same thing.\"\n> \n> \n> \"Oh, no. Pedantic? You?\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nIf you are trying to mimic the style of a script, you should use the full conventions of a script, including its peculiarities of capitalisation, punctuation, and abbreviation. That way, readers will recognise the style.\n\nIf you are not, start from the form the reader would expect in prose, even if you deviate from it to create some particular effect." }, { "answer_id": 66086, "author": "user7868", "author_id": 41037, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/41037", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "This should be a comment on IMSoP's answer, but it was too long. In a novella, write in full sentences and use articles whenever grammar requires them. Don't introduce each quoted line on a new line, unless it's very long, in which case you should consider indenting it to indicate it's a quote.\n\nThe purpose of a novella is for the reader to read the whole thing word by word. It should (almost entirely) be in full sentences because readers are familiar with full sentences, so they are easier for a reader or listener to follow.\n\nIf you aren't writing to be clear, you're not writing a conventional novella. Sometimes that's your intention (e.g. some stream-of-consciousness writing). Also, sometimes using an unusual format conveys your meaning more clearly (e.g. writing in the style of a transcribed commmunications log). But that's only appropriate if the effect you're aiming for justifies the inconvenience to the reader. You'd need to tell us what you're trying to do before we could decide whether we think your idea is worthwhile." }, { "answer_id": 66097, "author": "MJ713", "author_id": 36259, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/36259", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Since you seem to think that some of the other answers are getting off-topic, I will try to make this first section as targeted as possible.\n\nYou know that Style One (which has no definite articles) exists, and is used commonly in scripts and screenplays.\n\n**Style One:**\n\n> \n> FRENCHMAN \n> \n> Well, didn't I say it would take them less than a week?\n> \n> \n> ENGLISHWOMAN \n> \n> That wasn't the bet.\n> \n> \n> FRENCHMAN \n> \n> Of course it was. What are you talking about?\n> \n> \n> \n\nYou have just invented Style Two (which does have definite articles, among other differences), and you want to know \"Is it okay\", or \"Does it read okay?\", or \"does [it] strike you as aesthetically and/or visually and/or grammatically wrong in THIS CASE?\"\n\n**Style Two:**\n\n> \n> The Frenchman said:\n> \n> \n> \"Well, didn't I say it would take them less than a week?\"\n> \n> \n> The Englishwoman:\n> \n> \n> \"That wasn't the bet.\"\n> \n> \n> The Frenchman:\n> \n> \n> \"Of course it was. What are you talking about?\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nYou also mentioned in a comment that this is for a novella.\n\nIf you use Style One in your novella, then readers will be confused. They will wonder why part of your novella is written like a script, and what point you were trying to get across by writing it that way.\n\nIf you use Style Two in your novella, then readers will also be confused. They will wonder why part of your novella is written like something that is *not quite* a script, and what point you were trying to get across by writing it that way.\n\nSo the answer to \"Is it okay?\" is \"No.\" Style Two is not \"okay\" in a novella. But neither is Style One. Neither style is incomprehensible or grammatically incorrect, but both are unexpected **in the novella format**, and so they come off as awkward or aesthetically displeasing.\n\n---\n\nTo give a metaphor: imagine a guy is going to buy a car, and the dealer shows him a particular car where the driver has to operate the turn signal with his foot. There is nothing actually *wrong*, on a cosmic level, with a foot-operated turn signal. But it's still going to turn the guy off from buying the car, because he is accustomed to operating the turn signal with his hands. He might buy it if it was the only car available, but there are plenty of other cars with \"normal\" turn signals, so why wouldn't he pick one of those instead? And pretty much every other car buyer is going to have the same reaction.\n\nYou are the car dealer and manufacturer in this scenario. If you *install a foot-operated turn signal* (use an unexpected format) in your *car* (novella), it's just going to narrow your pool of potential *buyers* (readers). So why do it?\n\n---\n\nA caveat: there are a few cases where Style One *might* be acceptable in a novella.\n\n* If you just wrote a script and *called* it a \"novella\" (like selling a motorcycle as a \"car\"), then readers could probably accept that, because they could put the work into the pre-existing \"script\" bucket in their brains. But I don't think many editors or publishers would be enthusiastic about that approach.\n* You could get away with writing some chapters in a \"script\" style and other chapters in a conventional \"novella\" style, as long as the readers could get some sense that you had some *reason* for doing that, as opposed to a random whim. For example, if you were writing a novella where one character is an actor, you could write the chapters focusing on that character in a \"script\" format to signify that he treats his entire life as a performance, even when he is off stage.\n\nStyle Two, on the other hand, is not an typical style for a novella *or* a script, so it is awkward either way." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66080", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15812/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66108, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 4, "selected": true, "text": "There isn't a correlation between the amount of action in a story and the number of viewpoints characters.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe determinant of the number of viewpoints is how you chose to tell your story. While it is easier to write immersive stories with fewer viewpoints changes because you don't have to invest word-count in re-establishing engagement every time you change your viewpoint character, George R.R. Martin's 'The Song of Fire and Ice' demonstrates that the viewpoint can change many times every chapter by changing the story thread -- going from King's Landing to Winterfell -- and make for an engaging story.\n\nOne method is to change to another viewpoint in another thread of the story at a moment of high tension when the first thread reaches a critical point. When readers are invested and anticipating what will happen and the thread shifts focus to other character in another storyline, they get frustrated -- in a good way -- and keep reading to find out what is going to happen in the previous thread.\n\nFrustrating readers is an effective technique for keeping their attention, as long as they aren't aware of what you are doing -- because then they get annoyed, which is bad. Annoyed readers put down stories and don't pick them back up.\n\nAlternatively, as has been suggested, you can write in an omniscient POV. Lord of the Rings is written in an omniscient POV. It used to be very much the norm in writing but its popularity has faded since the 1950s. While it seems easier to write at first, compared to 1st and 3rd person POVs, the omniscient POV is hard to use effectively." }, { "answer_id": 66239, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> Currently, I'm on a chapter that has a lot perspective changes....\n> \n> \n> What could I possibly do to apply less character perspective changes?\n> \n> \n> \n\nA lot of questions here are in the format \"How do I do *x* without doing *x*.\n\nFlippant answer: \"Don't do so much *x*.\" \n\nReal answer: \"Writing is hard....\"\n\nDecide what's important\n-----------------------\n\nMake a short list of what's *dramatically* important for this chapter. Just the character realization moments where things change for them, something internal, an 'Ah-ha' or a 'You bastard!' moment.\n\nThere is probably a lot of *plot* going on, hence the need for so many perspective jumps to follow the action. Pretend for a minute the plot can take care of itself, readers will catch up. What's important is the character 'turns'.\n\nIf all the characters are experiencing/realizing the same thing (like a big battle) find the person with the most stakes, the one with the most to lose or the one who's been dealt the worst hand. These are the pivot characters in this chapter.\n\nTogurt McVea has a whole lecture on 'Do your scenes turn', explaining that every scene needs to have this character pivot, nudging them through their arc.\n\nI'm suggesting something similar but more ensemble and plot focused. SOME of your characters are going through a 'turn' in this chapter – maybe not the flashiest or the baddest, maybe not the mastervillain or hero. Someone is having a reader-sympathetic 'crisis', whose day gets even worse.\n\nIgnore chronology\n-----------------\n\nOnce you have decided what are the important 'turns' and who is having them, you will need to re-structure the chapter to tell that story.\n\nA lot of other plot is still going on, but the reader is grounded in the most important character-turns happening *right now*. *The whole planet is being bombarded, but the story focuses on the one character who colluded with the enemy..., or the character whose family is down on the planet...*.\n\nAgain, maybe not the hero or villain. Not the person whose wicked plans are unfolding, and not the obvious perspective of someone doing their duty on the front lines.\n\nYou can go back and explain the big plot later, but you cannot go back and explain the emotional impact of a moment. If the reader watches a character's motivations shift, they 'know' that character.\n\nLeave some to the imagination\n-----------------------------\n\nReaders are very good at filling in a big picture, often better than any author.\n\nGenre tropes are shortcuts to the reader's memories. Tap their imagination to create an even bigger scope to the conflict, if a bit fuzzy.\n\nProbably counter-intuitive but think what can be implied because it is a stock genre trope. Normally this would be some of your core story conflict, but if it follows the expected genre beats maybe you can get away with showing a smaller part of it, and suggesting the rest (it's done in television all the time because budget and time constraints).\n\nDo less *x*\n-----------\n\nSomehow you'll have to do less perspective-hopping to achieve less perspective-hopping.\n\nIf this is a pattern set up in previous chapters, so what. This chapter breaks the pattern for 'reasons'.\n\nIf the plot is too big and too complicated with too many moving parts to loose any perspectives, this is maybe a structure issue. Too many plot threads are converging in this chapter. Spread them over the previous and next chapters by ignoring the actual timeline and telling the story dramatically instead." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66095", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59528/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66112, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "I don't think it is screwed up at all.\n\nThe punchline should come at the end of the sentence. And \"helium\" is funnier than \"hydrogen\".\n\nThe important part of this sentence is not the example, but the **claim**:\n\n\"Humor is a universal element.\"\n\nThat is the point to get across, so it comes first. The *example* is a humorous element, it wasn't necessary at all. And choosing a universal element to compare to, hydrogen and helium were the first to spontaneously form from the energy in the Big Bang, and between them, helium is funnier than hydrogen.\n\nHelium makes people talk funny. There is very little humor centered on hydrogen.\n\nYou were right to begin with, Harlon Ellison (or was it J. Michael Straczynski? He wrote 92 of the 110 episodes himself) is a great writer.\n\nPerhaps the name for messing up sentences like that is \"burying the lede.\" It doesn't make sense to bring up the analogy before making the claim.\n\nIt wasn't supposed to be a real example, clearly the way it was written, Captain Shorojaf was adding an afterthought, and a humorous one. As if he said \"universal element\" in the sense of a universal *trait*, and realized *element* had a literal meaning as well, and compared it to the literally elemental helium for emphasis.\n\nThat was funny, IMHO, and the punchline is at the end." }, { "answer_id": 66117, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "One definition of humor is to be absurdly incongruent\n-----------------------------------------------------\n\nI think the statement 'Humor is a universal element…like helium' fits that idea because it establishes an obvious fact or clear statement - Humor is a universal element - then adds information that puts that statement into a different frame of reference -- comparing humor to helium in this case. Since the comparison is both absurd and truthful, we find it to be humorous.\n\nIf humor and helium were grouped together, a different relationship is put forth. Starting the sentence with 'Humor and Helium...' immediately asserts they have something in common and that you are going to tell me what it is. I might write 'Humor and Helium are hard to grasp' or 'Humor and Helium both abhor a vacuum.' Reordering the pieces of the sentence changes the emphasis and reduces the surprise of the original statement.\n\nThat said, there is a difference between writing dialogue for an actor to perform. This sentence is funnier when read with proper emphasis -- a pause represented an ellipsis. One could imagine how someone like Duuclis Odaxn might be written a similar statement. I imagine he'd have used a formulation closer to yours -- structurally -- but that he would have looked for a very different comparison.\n\n> \n> Humor is like gas. All around us; invisible to the naked eye; But everyone recognizes it when they smell it.\n> \n> \n>" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66111", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15366/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66120, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 4, "selected": false, "text": "Which question do you want answered?\n------------------------------------\n\n> \n> **Is omniscient observer POV really dead?**\n> \n> \n> \n\n> \n> Can a successful urban fantasy novel be narrated with a ***combination*** of ***both*** omniscient observer and individual characters POVs?\n> \n> \n> \n\nYour last sentence suggests you are combining **both** multi-character POVs **and** an omniscient narrator.\n\nThis is **not** your title provoking that omniscient POV is 'dead'.\n\n**These questions are so different I think you've done it deliberately to misrepresent the issue.** I suspect you have not really tried to make that change, and hiding the facts behind a deliberately misrepresented title is not helping you arrive at an honest answer.\n\nIt's your money\n---------------\n\nYou're paying a professional for their advice. Obviously it's up to you whether to accept or reject, but you have not presented us an honest case, and you haven't said why you want/need to. I'm chalking it up to stubbornness and immaturity of an amateur, otherwise you wouldn't need to misrepresent what she'd said as some 'absolute' when it was actually tailored advice for your particular situation.\n\nI default agree with your advisor who has read your manuscript. This sounds like a problem of **narrative voice**. Maybe a great writer can pull it off, but let's face the truth: if your omniscient narrator had been dazzling, she wouldn't advise you to drop it \"just because\".\n\nCreative solutions\n------------------\n\nThe usual reason (here) why an amateur writer wants to 'cheat' on POV is because they think the reader needs to be handheld through every step of the story, and if there's no character to literally stand there and watch it happen, then the reader too stupid to work it out and just has to be told in a dry character-less infodump by the author.\n\nCan you see why that's a red flag?\n\nSince I haven't read your story, and you don't say *why* you needed/wanted to do flip back-and-forth, I can't offer any real solutions, but here's one creative suggestion:\n\nIf you had a less-omniscient, *biased* narrator with a very specific voice – in Urban Fantasy it could even be an enchanted object that no one else can hear – with strong opinions on (everything), I think that might fit better with all the character POVs. Something like that might 'fix' any POV holes while adding a counterpoint-voice to the story, not just a workaround that (potentially) breaks the flow of an ensemble.\n\nIn other words, try to come up with an interesting narrator that isn't just the author telling the reader what happened." }, { "answer_id": 66121, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 5, "selected": false, "text": "The first rule of writing is that there are no rules.\n-----------------------------------------------------\n\nYou can write any story you want using any combination of POV.\n\nThe recently late Terry Pratchett wrote many parts of his novels using omniscient POV. He'd vary the POV between a very intimate close-3rd POV and a very distant effectively omniscient POV transcending time and space.\n\nI think your editor is telling you that your skills as a writer are not strong enough to successfully use an omniscient POV. While that POV seems easier, it has drawbacks that impact storytelling. It is also harder to establish an engaging and immersive reading experience. I think that is because it makes the character-centered sense of setting and event much more difficult to write." }, { "answer_id": 66122, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "The modern reader, unlike most readers in the 1800s and early 1900s, is looking for immersion and identification with the protagonists of the story.\n\nAs a beginning writer, although I don't think it is a great idea to try and imitate best selling authors, it **is** a good idea to use them as templates of what sells.\n\nAnd there are some but not many Omniscient POVs. Most of them are 3PL (Third Person Limited), sometimes alternating protagonists by chapter or section, and most of them follow the standard story structure, and that is what is selling now, and getting good reviews, and getting good word of mouth. All of that is critical to success: Only about 5% of readers will buy a new book by a new author on their own. Those are \"Early Adopters\", they have the time and money to risk buying a book by an unknown just because the blurb, the cover and a short sample of the writing sounds interesting.\n\nSome critics will also deign to read a few pages and see if they are engaged.\n\nAll other sales rely on those Early Adopters and critics, both sophisticated readers, and if they don't recommend it, sales go nowhere. It is a flop.\n\nPublishers ***hate*** flops. Agents ***hate*** flops. So any commercial success you hope to have should be geared to giving those Early Adopters and critics, what they expect: An imaginative new story with a new character in a new setting, written in the *expected* style they *know can sell.*\n\nThat is how you break through.\n\nThere are a few exceptions to this rule: Publishers and agents aren't stupid; they will make exceptions for well known authors with a fan base. Spepfuj Kunw will likely be published if he wants to try something experimental; so would JK Rowling, or Dal Xmowf. Publishers know their millions of fans will trust the author and buy the book; they aren't likely to lose money on it.\n\nAnd sometimes, blind luck will work. JK Rowling was rejected on her first book by every publisher she could find, a few dozen times. The one thing that saved her was the young daughter of a publisher that found Rowling's manuscript in the already rejected pile, started reading it, and told her father he had to publish it. Thus was a multi billion dollar franchise begun; Rowlings writing style did not appeal to *adults* reviewing it, they couldn't get past her numerous technical flaws. But it was a wildly popular fantasy with children, that didn't care about the overuse of adverbs and other technical faults.\n\nBut I would not count on that. You have to get published first. And an intermittent omniscient point of view is likely to destroy your chances, a new author needs to be in the top 1% or 2% of transcripts received to make it.\n\nStick to the script. When you are a strong selling author by sticking to the script, **then** agents and publishers will trust you to innovate." }, { "answer_id": 66130, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "Certain genres have certain conventions, and it might put readers off if you broke them. For example, Young Adult literature today is conventionally written in first or close third person perspective. Because (apparently) readers of YA want to identify with the protagonist and be drawn into his or her experience. This doesn't work well when the events are told from the distance of an omniscient narrator.\n\nAs this example illustrates, viewpoint isn't right or wrong in an absolute sense – it is \"dead\" or not – but it serves a certain purpose for your story. So the question you need to ask yourself is:\n\n**How does my story change when told from different viewpoints, and which viewpoint best facilitates the effect I am trying to achieve?**\n\nYou don't give enough details in your question for us to answer that question, but maybe you can answer it by looking at other works in your genre and considering to what effect you would want to deviate from that.\n\nAlso, kill your darlings. That is, don't become infatuated with what you created. Professional writers can and do change everything about their texts, if it helps sell their work or makes their work better (whichever flavour of professionalism you subscribe to)." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66119", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59559/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66127, "author": "Boba Fit", "author_id": 57030, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57030", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "It's the [Ragem Rabbit principle.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtfHaJKW1zQ) Ragem could only take his hand out of the handcuff when it was funny.\n\nYou can only reveal the betrayal when it is interesting. You can use it to drive whatever aspect of things you are doing. Raise tension or character development or fascination with the brave detective, etc.\n\nYou work out the plot and decide when it will hold your reader. You work out when to reveal it to Zotn, the betrayed person on the same rule. When will it hold your reader?\n\nThere are tons of ways to do it.\n\nYou can keep it all secret and have it be the Big Surprise at the end. Qpeqlack Bilmec stories are often much like this. Though, of course, Jolzec knew everything as soon as the client showed up at Baker Street.\n\nIt can be known to the reader very early, but the betrayed person much later. This can provide tension. When will Zotn figure it out? What will he do when he does? Does he understand the clues you are dropping?\n\nIt can be known to everybody early *except* the reader. Zotn has known for ages, and when the Big Reveal comes, Zotn then drops his secret and demonstrates he has known all along. And the bad-guy is caught. Though don't go too far with that or people will be quoting lines from the end of the Balx and Ted movie.\n\nIt can even be known to everybody right from the start. The tension can arise from various intrigues and uncovering of evidence that allows proof. This is sometimes done in police procedural dramas. The valiant detective knows the facts but can't prove it until the end.\n\nIn each case, the goal is to make the story interesting. Done well you get something fresh and interesting, even if it's a kind of betrayal story that has been done many many times before." }, { "answer_id": 66191, "author": "Holy the 4th", "author_id": 59528, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59528", "pm_score": 2, "selected": true, "text": "Busa Fed provides a really good answer.\n---------------------------------------\n\n*But* there are other times to do so. If you've seen the third episode of *Star Wars*, the clones turn on the Jedi at the most unexpected moment. You can also have a character commit a betrayal as punishment for insensitivity (which may not be an answer to your question, but I'm still thinking along the *Star Wars* theme)." }, { "answer_id": 66271, "author": "FarFromBliss", "author_id": 59786, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59786", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Personally what I would do is build up the relationship with the character that they're going to betray. It will add a whole new layer of betrayal if the readers actually have a connection with the character. This can happen whenever; if this book is just a one off I would have it in the climax, but if it was a series I would wait to it at the very end, and when the person is revealed have them escape or just cut it off right then and there to make the reader want to hear what happens next." }, { "answer_id": 66407, "author": "Anonymous Chicken", "author_id": 59991, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59991", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Having recently watched Batman Begins, I liked the approach they took with Ra's al-Ghul. The movie introduced this nameless guy (played by Huat Naesow) who trained Bwocu Payje (played by Christian Bale) in multiple martial arts and helped him combat his fears and traumatic experiences. He really seemed like a good guy, while Ra's al-Ghul was a different guy who had motives of destroying Vutfam City. When Bwucu must kill a man to win the favor of al-Ghul, he refuses (as a classic Batman gesture) which leads into this whole fight where the temple gets burned. As the nameless trainer is about to die, Bwucu saves his life and leaves, because Bwucu valued the teachings he got from that man.\n\nSPOILERS AHEAD:\n\n> \n> That nameless guy was Ra's al-Ghul the whole time. That happens in the climax of the film, when Bwucu realizes that the villain was not Dr. Cwone but instead the guy he saved seven years before. The way the movie treats the reveal is a monologue, followed by evil actions, followed by a big fight scene where Bwucu chooses not to save al-Ghul this time but instead let him die. This shows how Bwucu let go of his memories from the training in order to serve Vutfam, following the betrayal he got from his old trainer.\n> \n> \n> \n\nI hope this serves a good example as I think it is better to have the reveal before there is a final battle/fight/whatever. The character should have to face things and decide for themselves after the reveal, so both the protagonist and antagonist can have a resolution. Unless you want a cliffhanger for a next story, it's best to do something after the reveal to finish the story in a way that treats the betrayal properly and leads to a lesson learned (but not a sappy one, it should have some feeling or decision that impacts everything, like Batman letting al-Ghul die comparing to the way he saved him the last time that he was in that situation)." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66126", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59567/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66133, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "As I interpret that passage, there is a question, followed by an explanation of that question. That is, what the speaker is asking could be paraphrased as:\n\n*[Question:] Do you remember when we were (or what happened) in Ashcroft Apartments? [Explanation:] We were (or it happened) in Ashcroft Apartments two weeks ago.*\n\nIf that is what you want to say, I would segment that passage like this:\n\n> \n> \"Do you remember? Not this past Sunday, but the Sunday before that--\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe explanation isn't a question and therefore doesn't need a question mark.\n\nOn the other hand, you could think of the second sentence as a question as well. That is, the passage could be paraphrased as:\n\n*[Question:] Do you remember when we were (or what happend) in Ashcroft Apartments? [Question:] Do you remember that it was two weeks ago?*\n\nThen I would **add a question mark after the em dash** to indicate the intonation of the interrupted sentence:\n\n> \n> \"Do you remember? Not this past Sunday, but the Sunday before that—?\"\n> \n> \n> \n\n---\n\nAs a side note, the sentence \"Not this past Sunday, but the Sunday before that\" seems complete to me and not broken off at all. I don't understand how that sentence could have continued after the em dash.\n\nIf you want the sentence to be broken off mid sentence, then actually break it off, e.g.:\n\n> \n> \"Ashcroft Apartments. Do you remember? Not this past Sunday, but the Sunday bef–\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nA sentence cannot be interrupted at its end, so your example, as you give it, should be written:\n\n> \n> \"Ashcroft Apartments. Do you remember? Not this past Sunday, but the Sunday before that./?\"\n> \n> \n> \n\n— with a full stop or question mark, depending on how you want the second sentence to be intonated." }, { "answer_id": 66138, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I would also suggest that you should use a dash when the interrupt is sudden and use ellipses when the interrupt is during a pregnant pause where the interrupted character is trying to find the right words." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66132", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59505/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66133, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "As I interpret that passage, there is a question, followed by an explanation of that question. That is, what the speaker is asking could be paraphrased as:\n\n*[Question:] Do you remember when we were (or what happened) in Ashcroft Apartments? [Explanation:] We were (or it happened) in Ashcroft Apartments two weeks ago.*\n\nIf that is what you want to say, I would segment that passage like this:\n\n> \n> \"Do you remember? Not this past Sunday, but the Sunday before that--\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe explanation isn't a question and therefore doesn't need a question mark.\n\nOn the other hand, you could think of the second sentence as a question as well. That is, the passage could be paraphrased as:\n\n*[Question:] Do you remember when we were (or what happend) in Ashcroft Apartments? [Question:] Do you remember that it was two weeks ago?*\n\nThen I would **add a question mark after the em dash** to indicate the intonation of the interrupted sentence:\n\n> \n> \"Do you remember? Not this past Sunday, but the Sunday before that—?\"\n> \n> \n> \n\n---\n\nAs a side note, the sentence \"Not this past Sunday, but the Sunday before that\" seems complete to me and not broken off at all. I don't understand how that sentence could have continued after the em dash.\n\nIf you want the sentence to be broken off mid sentence, then actually break it off, e.g.:\n\n> \n> \"Ashcroft Apartments. Do you remember? Not this past Sunday, but the Sunday bef–\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nA sentence cannot be interrupted at its end, so your example, as you give it, should be written:\n\n> \n> \"Ashcroft Apartments. Do you remember? Not this past Sunday, but the Sunday before that./?\"\n> \n> \n> \n\n— with a full stop or question mark, depending on how you want the second sentence to be intonated." }, { "answer_id": 66138, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I would also suggest that you should use a dash when the interrupt is sudden and use ellipses when the interrupt is during a pregnant pause where the interrupted character is trying to find the right words." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66135", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52738/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66144, "author": "Holy the 4th", "author_id": 59528, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59528", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "There are several options.\n--------------------------\n\nCaves. Caves are always an option. This is present in JRR Tolkien's *The Hobbit*(or *There and Back Again*). It is how Smaug escaped the dwarves, or the goblins escaped the sunlight. If the mountain is densely populated by trees and forest animals, the forest would also be good option. If people can use magic in that world, there are multiple other options which you would be able to decide. If the mountain is populated by civilized humans, you could either have the characters rally some allies or hide in fortresses. A final option of mine is on the side of the mountain. If a character can hold on long enough, then they could escape detection from an enemy. Via your suggestion, you would need a large, hollow tree to work for your 10 year old." }, { "answer_id": 66145, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "I recommend you go into a mountain forest and see for yourself.\n\nI grew up in a village and played in forests all my childhood. We built tree houses and generally climbed around in trees all the time. I hid in a tree twice – once from the police – and it worked well each time, but only because it was night! If you're inside a forest and look around in the daylight, you can notice things in trees pretty high up if they aren't tree-colored or if they move, even if you don't actively search for them. Human eyes are really good at picking up movement at the edge of their field of vision – better than in the center, in fact! – so a person hiding in a tree during the day has to be above the foliage. And that is very high, because trees in a forest usually only have denser foliage at the very top. And many trees in forests are hard to climb, because they don't have many branches low down. So hiding in a tree is not as easy at it sounds. You'll have to be lucky and find just the right tree, or a young tree beside an older one that you can use as a sort of ladder to climb up to the lowest branches of the higher tree.\n\nBut then, mountain forests usually aren't as dense as forests in the flatland. Look at this image of a typical mountain forest:\n\n[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/cnHMK.jpg)\n\nWhere would you hide? Probably behind one of the moss covered rocks or in one of the small hollows under roots or fallen tree trunks or behind the stem of a tree as it is broadening towards the root ball. You certainly wouldn't be able to get up any of those trees.\n\nAs the boy, I would just let myself fall where I stood or jump behind the next bump in the ground and crawl away until I'm out of sight. And I would lie very still, because sound carries quite far in a medieval forest." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66143", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59271/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66147, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 4, "selected": false, "text": "0. Get feedback from qualified beta readers or a professional editor (you will have to pay the latter, so do some research on who the person is and how satisfied others are with their work). Seriously consider that feedback and don't reject it because it is painful to hear. If two or more beta readers say the same thing, it is very likely true. Beta readers are hard to find, so if you do find them, be nice to them.\n1. Never pay for publication (or for agents to look at your manuscript). [Vanity publishers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanity_press) won't lift a finger to help market your book because they already earned their money.\n2. Find agents and publishers that (a) publish the genre you have written and (b) who publish authors with similar works.\n3. Follow their submission guidelines. This usually includes a specific formatting (printed or electronic, font size, header and title page with specific information, etc.) and selecting a certain part of your manuscript (either the beginning x pages or a specific passage in the middle) as well as accompanying material such as a summary of a certain length etc. Most publishers provide that information on their websites.\n4. Always submit to one agent at a time. Agents don't want to compete with each other and might drop your manuscript if they learn that you have submitted elsewhere. Always submit to agents before publishers. You may submit to several or all publishers at once, but I would begin with your preferred ones, wait a month or three for replys, and work my way to smaller publishers from there.\n5. If you have sounded out all agents and publishers, consider self-publishing. Publishing on Amazon, for example, costs you no money, but you'll have to do all of your marketing yourself.\n6. Write the next novel.\n7. Have a job you enjoy to earn your living and write for fun. [According to statistics](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/05/books/authors-pay-writer.html), on average authors earn 6000 dollars per year.\n\n---\n\nAs a side note, getting rejected by a publisher can have many reasons:\n\na. Your text is just not good.\n\nb. Your text is not what the market wants at this time.\n\nc. Your text doesn't fit within the profile of that publisher.\n\nd. The publisher already has enough texts to publish for the next few years.\n\nOnly between about 0.01% and 5% of submitted manuscripts (depending on publisher) get published, according to accounts on the internet.\n\nGood luck!" }, { "answer_id": 66148, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 6, "selected": false, "text": "The first step is to type up one of your stories in [standard manuscript form](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_manuscript_format#:%7E:text=In%20general%2C%20a%20document%20with,(12%20pitch)%20font%20size.). Preferably your best and most favorite story. 'Best' because that maximizes your chances of getting literary representation and 'Most favorite' because you are going to be reading and re-reading it and editing an awful lot, so it's important that you really like the story.\n\nAlso, avoid editing the story as you type it up. Fixing spelling errors and punctuation errors is fine, but avoid reshaping the narrative or restructuring the story until you have transcribed the complete story from your written pages to an electronic form. And, by typing it up, I meant typing it into a computer and not a typewriter. Optical Character Recognition is one possibility to convert scanned images into text. If you don't have access to a PC or laptop, public libraries have computers you can use. Google docs is a good application if you don't have a copy of MS Word. One plus of Google docs is that you manuscript is stored on the cloud.\n\nThen, you edit your story. You make it the best you can do. Don't stop editing and revising until the story is satisfying and enjoyable. Your major focus should be on storytelling and the craft of writing.\n\nNext, you write a generic query letter describing your story to an agent. You can learn how to write a good query letter from online resources. A good one is [Query Shark](https://queryshark.blogspot.com/). I've had it recommended multiple times by most professional authors who taught the writing courses I've taken over the last 3 years.\n\nNext, you search for a literary agent. There are too many sites listing different agents currently accepting manuscripts. Most publishers -- all the big publishers -- will no longer take manuscripts from authors. They only accept manuscripts from agents. Small publishers still take manuscripts from authors as well as agents. If an agent agrees to take you on, that means they believe they can sell your story. That is how agents make their living. They are usually writers themselves. Once you find a dozen or more agents that want the genre of story you've written, you customize your query letter to each one and send it to them. Each agent will describe what they want to see as part of the submission. Usually, it's a query letter, a brief writer biography, and the first N pages of your story. All electronic submissions. No fees. It's all free. Then you wait and wait and wait. Usually, they'll tell you if they are interested or not. If they are on the bubble, like you are not quite there yet as a writer, they'll make some suggestions and ask you to resubmit.\n\nWhile all this is happening, you can look for writers' groups to join and share your work with them. Honestly, a writer's group can be a mixed bag -- very helpful or destructive. But having a working relationship with other writers is very helpful since it teaches you how to give and receive criticism." }, { "answer_id": 66149, "author": "NFresh", "author_id": 59594, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59594", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "If you are asking about how to convert from hand-written paper to an editable computer document, reasonably up to date cell phones can recognize and transcribe the text by photographing a printed page with the camera App (certainly Android phones can do this). You'll wind up with a lot of one-page files to transfer from the phone to a computer and then glue into a book, but that beats re-typing it.\n\nSee if you can access a scanner with character/text recognition at the local library for free - it may have a multi-sheet feeder to speed things up. As a last resort you can pay for this service at a print/copy/office supply store, perhaps in a self-service section.\n\nIn any case you'll have to clean it up - none of the scanners are perfect.\n\nGood luck!! Let us know when your first book comes out." }, { "answer_id": 66152, "author": "uhoh", "author_id": 48332, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/48332", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "### Read it out loud into a voice-to-text app on any device/OS\n\nPerhaps a better alternative to manually typing into a computer, or using handwriting recognition software would be to simply read the manuscripts out loud into a voice to text application running on a phone or computer.\n\nSome of these may be free - some may even be built-in to the operating system of the phone or computer.\n\nUnless you already know how to [touch-type](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing), I think this is one of the fastest, simplest and most effective way to get your stories into computer text form.\n\nThen you can go about fixing typos and incorrect words the software might have mis-recognized. Any word processing program (e.g Microsoft Word or the like) will have a grammar correction option as well.\n\nOnce in a presentable format, you can then follow the advice in the other answers about approaching publishers.\n\n---\n\n**notes:** Reading one's own writing out loud is also an incredibly effective tool even when not transcribing! It's amazing how things can seem so different read aloud compared to reading our own written words, where our brain can subconsciously insert extra context or meaning that's not really written explicitly.\n\nSo given the choice, I'd recommend reading aloud into a voice-to-text translator OVER using a handwriting-to-text OCR program because it gives you a new view and perspective on work you may think you are very familiar with.\n\nAlso, I don't think you need to worry about reading it exactly as written *only* - if as you are reading you think of an alternative phrase or sentence here and there, or suddenly realize \"omg this isn't going to work\" or \"oh it would be better if\" go right ahead and make these comments out loud while you are transcribing!\n\nDuring the editing process you will recognize your own \"notes to self\" and can make them parenthetical or move them to a separate page as you see fit." }, { "answer_id": 66153, "author": "Douglas", "author_id": 28855, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/28855", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "Regardless of the method of publication, you will have to get them into an electronic form, because computer files are how *everyone* handles such things these days. You could transcribe them by hand, or use a scanner and OCR (Optical Character Recognition) software to try to automate the process, though even the best OCR software will need proofreading unless your handwriting is immaculate.\n\nGetting a traditional publisher to print one of your books and sell it will be difficult. You might want to try a non traditional route. One non traditional publication method that I know many authors have found significant success with is posting a book online, chapter by chapter over time, free for the public to read, but with the option of paying for early access to more chapters.\n\nThe most major sites I know of dedicated to this are [Royal Road](https://www.royalroad.com) for publication of free chapters, which incidentally also predominantly hosts fantasy stories, and [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/) for handling paid early access. An example approach would be to post a new chapter every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, for a total of three chapters per week, while giving readers their choice of:\n\n* Read the story for free on Royal Road.\n* Or pay $1 per month on Patreon to read 2 chapters ahead of what's published on Royal Road.\n* Or pay $5 per month on Patreon to read 5 chapters ahead of Royal Road.\n* Or pay $10 per month on Patreon to read 10 chapters ahead of Royal Road.\n\nMany variations on such details are viable, and it's fairly common for authors to also offer minor additional side content, such as artwork or worldbuilding details, as exclusive content for Patreon subscribers.\n\nHighly successful stories on Royal Road often also eventually take down early portions of the story to sell those portions as e-books on Amazon Kindle, while continuing to publish new chapters of the latest continuation of the story on Royal Road and Patreon." }, { "answer_id": 66156, "author": "Gemmy Zone", "author_id": 59599, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59599", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "You may\n\n* approach a publisher\n* approach an investor\n* publish as an ebook such as Amazon kindle, Apple iBooks, etc" }, { "answer_id": 66159, "author": "Dewi Morgan", "author_id": 12823, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/12823", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Assuming you weren't in jail for something that people would hate you for (child abuse, rape, some murder), you may have an EXCELLENT back-story.\n\nHaving written the stories in jail is something that will make you stand out from the crowd. David Eddings' first work was written the same way, he made millions, and it never came out until after he and his wife died that they were in jail for child abuse.\n\nHandwriting OCR is surprisingly powerful now that AI is a thing: you may well be able to get the documents scanned into a computer and parsed into text, without having to type 25 years' worth of work by hand.\n\nSpeaking of AI: currently, AI is not very good at writing, but it won't be long before it is, so getting this work out sooner rather than later is a very wise idea.\n\nYou may also want to consider self-publishing one or two of your works, self-marketing them, just to get your name out there." }, { "answer_id": 66165, "author": "Mindwin Remember Monica", "author_id": 19292, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/19292", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "You stated you \"spent 25 years in prison\" and has been trying to publish for years. I'll assume you have ways to contact the outside world or are already out of prison.\n\nGoing the way of normal publishing is one way, but you are unknown. Nowadays, notoriety and a steady following might trump the \"first publish\" value. Web serials that have a high follower count are less risky for the publisher.\n\nSet up a Patreon account. Start publishing in web novel format in sites such as Scribblehub, Wattpad, Royal Road, etc... that have a high reader traffic.\n\nMake an advertising campaign on these sites. Attract readers to your story. Publish small chapters often.\n\nOffer advance chapters on Patreon. Some readers will subscribe to your Patreon. That's one way to obtain revenue. Some top authors make thousands of dollars per month from Patreon alone.\n\nNetwork with other authors who publish on these sites. Ask them to \"trade shouts\" on your stories to get more exposure.\n\nWith a high follower count, you can approach some publishers who usually work with the authors in these sites. Even if you can't find a publisher, you can even self-publish in the Amazon KU program, for example." }, { "answer_id": 66172, "author": "JamieB", "author_id": 37426, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/37426", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I've seen several answers mention it in passing, but I would investigate [self-publishing on Amazon](https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/). I have bought and read self-published books. You can also investigate [self-publishing on Kobo](https://www.kobo.com/us/en/p/writinglife). Take your time in looking into these things because I don't know what the rules may be for publishing on multiple platforms, or which is better.\n\nYou should also investigate getting someone to do a single panel cover art for your book, because that will be useful in the next step:\n\n**\"But how will people find my book?\"**\n\nAn important step here is going to be spending some money on advertising, which is not as daunting as it may sound. Personally, I would advertise on Facebook. It's very easy to make Facebook ads, with targeted audiences, and you don't need to be a marketing professional to do it. I have used Facebook to good result in advertising local concerts and tours for a friend's band. You can spend as much or as little as you like (as in, I usually spent $10 - $20 on highly targeted local ads for local shows.) I *get* ads for books on Facebook now and then and have actually bought some books as a result of those ads, so they work on me, at least! The cover art is useful here because you'll want something eye catching for the ad, and all the ads I've seen just use the cover art as the backdrop.\n\n\"Step 1\" is still going to be what others have mentioned, which is getting your manuscript(s) into digital format, and converted into the format for that platform you are going to publish on (Kindle vs Kobo) but there are tools which do conversions for you (free, if I recall correctly).\n\nSo: 1) convert one to digital 2) commission a cover art for it 3) self-publish on Kobo and/or Kindle 4) advertise.\n\nAnecdotally, I have a sister-in-law who did this and has had great success with her murder mystery series. The hardest part, which advertising helps with, is getting the ball rolling on finding people who will want to read your book in the first place.\n\nIf you have success self-publishing the first one then you have a lot of leverage going forward, either to continue self-publishing or to get a publisher's attention for your next one." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66146", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59590/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66151, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "Commonly, characters aren't described in too much detail at all. The convention is to give only the relevant aspects (\"tall and handsome\") and leave the rest to the reader's imagination.\n\n\"Relevant\" here means relevant to the story! If the appearance of your characters isn't important for the development of the relationships or the plot, do not describe them at all! For example, we never learn what Esther Greenwood in *The Bell Jar* looks like.\n\nIf the looks are important, much will depend on your style of narration. If the new character is seen by your viewpoint character and the viewpoint character is surprised by how the person or being looks, the viewpoint character will certainly spend some time appreciating that apperance and so should you. For example, there is a paragraph describing Treebeard in *The Lord of the Rings* when Merbf and Qejpin see him for the first time.\n\nIf on the other hand different aspects of a person's appearance come into focus for the viewpoint character one at a time, then the narration should model this incrementally growing awareness. But again, only if it matters to the story, for example because how one character feels about the appearance of the other has an impact on their behavior (e.g. falling in love) or the phyiscal appreance shows the reader something about a character's life and personality (e.g. the tired face and rough hands of a hardworking person)." }, { "answer_id": 66154, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 5, "selected": true, "text": "It's usual to describe an important character when the POV character first encounters them - otherwise the reader is left with a \"white box\" when they try to imagine what that person looks like.\n\nThe rules of thumb are:\n\n* The more important the character, the more detail they warrant\n* Focus on the key, interesting features\n* Evoke rather describe (briefly paint a picture with words rather than dryly listing info)\n* Don't overdo it; very few readers want a page full of exacting information\n* You can drop in further details later in the story, when they become important (although it can be good to hint/foreshadow asap)\n\nAs a quick example:\n\n**Bad:**\n\n\"He was six feet and four inches tall, and about two-hundred and twenty pounds. He had brown hair, which was tied back in a two foot tail that went down his back. He wore a denim shirt, with a biker's belt and denim trousers. He wore black boots. His face had three scars, which ran at different angles, and made him look dangerous.\"\n\n**Better:** (sorry, rushing this a bit, but hopefully demonstrates the idea)\n\n\"The guy was scary big; like a cross between a hell's angel and a mexican wrestler. A long ponytail ran half-way down his back, and the scars on his face told their own story.\"\n\n(alright, not great - but you can see the 'evocative' version is not only more concise, but much more interesting to read. Note how much of the heavy lifting certain words/phrases can do: e.g. \"hell's angel\" covers a lot of the clothing)" }, { "answer_id": 66155, "author": "Marina", "author_id": 59271, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59271", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Some basic traits should be presented very soon. Maybe not in the very first paragraph, but not far off. General appearance, things you notice when you just meet someone in the real world.\n\nHair color is the most obvious example. You don't need to give your character's hair color at all (if it is not relevant to the plot, you can give the readers the freedom to imagine whatever color they want), but if you do, you should do it very soon. It is very annoying when this happens: you start reading a book, no information about this trait, then you imagine the character as a black-haired man for three chapters, and later it turns out that he was blond. Really annoying." }, { "answer_id": 66164, "author": "Boba Fit", "author_id": 57030, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57030", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "There are many ideas about description.\n\nSome authors love to bring you this huge amount of description, particularly the main characters. It's like one of those paint-by-numbers things with every little detail filled in. *Some* authors make this work.\n\nOther authors want to do a little cartoonish description. Three strokes kind of thing. A shock of tousled red hair over a lean lanky body with indifferent posture. And not much more description. *Some* authors make that work.\n\nIt depends to some extent on your desired audience. There are many different types of writing. There is a thing called \"bodice ripper.\" It's a romantic adventure sort of thing that is not intended to be the absolute tip-top of literature. There are things like the \"Fifty Shades of Grey\" series, again, written for a particular purpose. There are also straight adventure novels. Things about army snipers getting the absolute monster bad guy. Or sci-fi novels where the hero saves the world from drooling hideous space aliens. Each of these needs a different type and level of description of the main characters.\n\nStyle in such issues changes over time. I am recalling a classic novel from China called [Three Kingdoms.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms) The main characters are often described in two to three page chunks with such details as how big their ears are, how long their nose is, and so on. This is done, partly, to make the large number of characters distinguishable and memorable.\n\nI am also remembering a novel by a writer I usually find quite wonderful. In one of his last novels (he died in the 1980s) he had a character that was not described in detail. We did not find out until nearly the end that he was black. Even the illustrator who did the cover art did not notice he was black. Though there were some hints. It was kind of jarring. And every time I re-read the book, I find it jarring. Even knowing it's coming.\n\nThe only hard and fast rule is, don't be boring. And the problem with that is, two people who read your work will have different responses. So try to get an idea of the audience you have, and the purpose you are writing for. Then that should give you a basic idea of the amount of description." }, { "answer_id": 66167, "author": "codeMonkey", "author_id": 40325, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/40325", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Describe Decisions\n------------------\n\nIf you describe a woman as \"blonde with blue eyes\" you haven't told the reader anything about her.\n\nIf you describe a woman as having \"hair buzzed short, with restless, probing eyes\" you've told the reader a great deal!\n\nIn the modern, western context, a woman with a buzz cut has rejected \"traditional femininity.\" You probably already pictured her with black combat boots and baggy pants, completing a \"punk\" look. Combining the punk look with the \"restless eyes\" we get an image of a physically aggressive woman - and we know that this is a image she **chooses to project.**\n\nThis is a useful description.\n\nDeviate from or Embrace the Norm\n--------------------------------\n\nIf your character has made \"very normal\" choices in their dress and mannerisms, this probably isn't worth describing in detail - unless you want to emphasize to the reader how important \"fitting in\" is to this character. Then you could describe how their outfit is exactly on-trend without be avant-garde.\n\nAs Many Decisions as Reasonable\n-------------------------------\n\nIf you're limiting your physical descriptions mostly to decisions the character has made - budging muscles from working out, perfect makeup that takes an hour each morning, tailored suits in fine wool, etc - then you are naturally only going to have one or two things to describe for each character in any scene. There's only so much we can choose to say with our appearance at any given time.\n\nFollow on scenes can demonstrate the range of the character's choices when they show off new sides of themselves." }, { "answer_id": 66168, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "It really is not necessary to go into detail at all. I really prefer to use other people's reactions to the person, the way they are treated, their interactions.\n\nWindr said, \"Why don't you just go up ask him out? I asked Metk out first, you know. For real.\"\n\nAnn laughed, truly tickled. \"God, Windr, you ever look at yourself? What guy on Earth is going to turn you down? The frikkin Zoje wouldn't turn you down.\"\n\n\"If I were a guy, I'd date you. You're hilarious!\"\n\n\"Right. That's the main thing guys are looking for in a girl, a good joke.\"\n\nSo, what does Windr look like?\n\nIf some unusual trait is important to the story, like Windr's exceptional attractiveness or Ann's ordinariness (and humor), then it should have an effect on the characters and people in the story. Long before it actually makes a difference.\n\nOtherwise, what I see in the description of characters is often author wish fulfillment; how they'd like to imagine themselves, or their objects of affection.\n\nThe problem with the approach of describing a character in exposition (as opposed to a scene like above) is that unless exposition is describing a setting, it is basically something you are asking the reader to memorize and recall later.\n\nAnd readers are both bored with such descriptions (as you noted) and they are bad at remembering such a laundry list of facts.\n\nReaders are very good at remembering **scenes** however, and the gist of **conversations**.\n\nThey will remember this exchange between Windr and Ann, especially if *other characters* react to Windr as gorgeous. Heads turn when she enters a room. Boys stumble into desks. And Ann is ordinary but funny. The reader will develop *their own conception* of exceptional beauty for Windr, and *their own conception* of ordinary for Ann." }, { "answer_id": 66169, "author": "Holy the 4th", "author_id": 59528, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59528", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "This is not a good idea.\n========================\n\nThe reader will not be able to understand what the character looks like. If you scatter descriptions all over the text, the reader will be confused and won't be sure which description to use. Also, there is a chance you forget what the character looks like and then change the look at two portions of the text(with the exception of the character deliberately changing his look)." }, { "answer_id": 66173, "author": "Amadeus Jones", "author_id": 59631, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59631", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "There is no right answer to that question. It would depend on so many factors such as the prominence of the character, are they the main character versus a minor supporting character. How the does person's physical description contribute to the story? Is it just added details, or it there something about them that can be predictive for the reader, a clue about something later . . . How quickly do you want your reader to fully see and know your character? Do they get a clear image of them from the start so they can quickly bond and join in the adventure, or are they more mysterious and both their physical and mental traits slowly revealed to draw the reader into the character. Good luck with your book." }, { "answer_id": 66174, "author": "Simon Crase", "author_id": 54909, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/54909", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I suggest that you read Isaac Asimov's short story, [Segregationist](https://surveyofamericanlit.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/segregationist1.pdf), where the description of one of the characters is postponed to the end. Also notice that the description of one other character on page 2.\n\n> \n> The man in the chair looked over his shoulder and watched them go. His neck was scrawny and there were fine wrinkles about his eyes. He was freshly shaven and the fingers of his hands, as they gripped the arms of the chair tightly, showed manicured nails. He was a high-priority patient and he was being taken care of. ... But there was a look of settled peevishness on his face.\n> \n> \n> \n\nIMHO Asimov supplies the exact right amount of description here, and in his other stories." }, { "answer_id": 66181, "author": "AnoE", "author_id": 23592, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23592", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Maybe a little reframing, but nevertheless I'll throw it in: as a reader with [aphantasia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia) I take little benefit from long character descriptions. Neither can I actually remember many detailed descriptions in many of the books I'm reading (mostly SciFi, sometimes general fiction).\n\nWhat I do clearly remember is reading how the characters *behave* or *talk*, and inferring from that a (non-visual) mental representation. For example, in a SciFi story I'm currently reading, most characters are very mature adults, but there's a character who is a just-past-adolescence youngling. He talks and acts appropriately annoying. I have no clue how the author intends him to looks like (he didn't really tell), but the character works perfectly fine, impersonating the role of the cliche youth.\n\nTo put it in other ways: I take a lot from people interacting with each other or the environment; I couldn't care less about how they look or what they \"are\". I could go without any looks at all, but if that is too extreme for you, I'd vote for describing them through the eyes of other characters, and in one spot at an appropriate time in your book; not strewn around." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66150", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59595/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66171, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 4, "selected": false, "text": "There is a difference between how outside observers (e.g. ethnologists) name a ceremony and how the members of a community call it themselves. Outsiders often use descriptive names like \"Coral Reef Ceremony\" or \"Walkabout\", describing where the ceremony takes place, its elements, or what it is thought to be about, while insiders usually use more abstract terms such as Bar Mitzvah (meaning \"to subject the community member to the law\"), Communion (\"union between the community member and Christ\"), Confirmation (\"public confession of faith\"), etc.\n\nWhat I would do in your case is\n\n1. design the faith of the people that perform your ritual and\n2. work out what that ritual signifies for them. Then,\n3. from within the perspective of their worldview, try and brainstorm terms that they might use to name that ritual.\n4. If you want, make up a language for them and translate that term to their language. But I'm not sure underwater languages can be well represented using Latin letters, so I probably wouldn't attempt this final step.\n\nYou might want to do some research into rites of passage to get an idea what meaning they have and how they are named in the real world. Here is a possible starting point: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Rites_of_passage>. But make sure you look at the terms the peoples use themselves!\n\nAs a side note, many ceremonial terms may sound \"stupid\" when you hear them for the first time, but habituation (we grow up with them) and the meaning they have (for us individually and in our community) make the terms feel natural, obvious, and self-evident. Readers, too, grow accustomed to terms over the course of a book." }, { "answer_id": 66180, "author": "HoomansRWe1rd", "author_id": 59595, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59595", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "If you want a more creative means of making a name, try to use abbreviations instead of full words (such as, in your case, CRC for \"Coral Reef Ceremony\").\n\nOr, you could just lightly hint at the ceremony name, have a character say that in your case, say that it does sound stupid, etc., and focus more on what happens at the ceremony.\n\nMaybe you can do what the many major religions do and use an older language when writing out these ceremonies, but this all depends on how long this ceremony has been running and how easily it could be interpreted.\n\nIt can be used in simpler terms, such as when the king's coronation is verbatim, which is called \"The King's Coronation.\"\n\nIt all depends on importance, what actually happens, and how long the ceremony has been running for." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66170", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/55723/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66190, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "Don't use the final screenplay. I suggest you try DupeKx Trottier's \"Dr. Format Tells All\", now in its 4th edition. It is pretty comprehensive, and I have also used his services to review my screenplays, some of them multiple times.\n\nTrottier is a professional screenwriter.\n\nThe 1 minute per page, for a professionally written spec screenplay, is an empirical rule of thumb; it is not scientific. For example, in \"The Charge of the Light Brigade\", there are a few **minutes** of screen time devoted to a single line of two words in the script: \"They charge.\"\n\nThe way the dialogue is formatted, the brief 2 or 3 line scene descriptions and exposition, the \"shorthand\" used for facial expressions and so on all contribute to the rule of thumb.\n\nFor example, in one of my first drafts, DupeKx shortened my scene descriptions from 5 lines to 2, eliminated a lot of detail (not up to me; up to the directors and set decorators), scratched costume descriptions altogether or nearly to nothing, got rid of all my character descriptions except the bare minimum (e.g. \"6 yo girl\"). Casting is not your job; the director and casting director will choose the actor, not you, so unless a characteristic is truly necessary for the story, leave it out.\n\nFor example, the only specific thing he kept about my character descriptions was an eye color that was a story element in the finale; it is the way a woman realizes a long ago brief acquaintance of her mother, was actually (the woman's) father. Not her mother's husband, as she had been told all her life.\n\nThe same thing can go for things like fights. Many times you will see broad descriptions of fights, with few details, because really it is up to the fight choreographers to work with the director on the details, to fit the time the director wants, and to show the angles the director wants.\n\nIt is important to understand that the script is just the bones of the story, the images, characters, background music, costumes, art, even non-BG music within the story, if it is not plot critical or perhaps historical (as it was in \"Amadeus\"), is not up to you. Some things are easier (and cheaper) to license than others. It is the director's job, not yours, to put the flesh on the bones you provide.\n\nIf you stick to the format, the rule of thumb \"a page a minute\" usually holds, at least close enough the director can fudge it in one direction or another to meet their time limit. They are experts at fudging it.\n\nAnd this format also lets you focus more on what they are looking for when they review your script: A creative plot, believable motivations, and the story beats they expect to find. You are dealing with people that have highly visual and creative imaginations, they don't need any hand-holding to envision the scenes and hear the dialogue with the barest of descriptions.\n\nTrottier also has a book called \"Two Screenplays (in Correct Spec Format), which I believe he sold but were never produced, so the rights reverted to him. As examples of actual spec scripts that were bought.\n\nMost of the screenplays you can find online are not Spec Scripts (like you submit to agents or studios), they are shooting scripts or final scripts.\n\nGet some successful spec scripts, it is much easier than you think, once you can let go of the \"novelist\" mindset." }, { "answer_id": 66192, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 4, "selected": true, "text": "How long a page of a screenplay is in the final film is not relevant. Screenwriter Jusl Auzust [writes](https://johnaugust.com/2006/how-accurate-is-the-page-per-minute-rule):\n\n> \n> [W]hen a movie is in pre-production, one of the script supervisor’s first jobs is to time the script. She or he reads through the screenplay with a stopwatch, estimating how long each scene will play, then adds up the total running time. Generally, they go through the whole script twice, averaging the times.\n> \n> \n> \n\nNevertheless, the one-page-per-minute rule of thumb is a way to estimate the length of a movie. So how well does it hold up?\n\nIn [a statistical analysis](https://stephenfollows.com/is-the-page-per-minute-rule-correct/) of 761 scripts that were turned into films, instigated by Jusl Auzust and conducted by film data researcher Stephen Follows, *on average* one page of script did indeed equal approximately one minute of film – but there was a large variance of between half a page of script and 1.5 pages to a minute of film. Only 22% of the scripts fell within 5% of the rule, that is, 78% of the scripts deviated from the rule significantly.\n\n[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/3xfGj.png)\n\nThe origin of the rule of thumb, as that is what you are asking about, seems to be that statistically scripts cluster around a ratio of 1 page per minute. The cause for this, though, seems to be an artifact of paper size and script formatting that just happens to result in this ratio, and not intent." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66189", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59124/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66195, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "It sounds like this is an important motivational character whose death is significant to the protagonist.\n\nLet's call this important motivational character Wormbait and the protagonist Hero, to keep things simple.\n\nWhen Wormbait dies isn't a constraint on establishing their relationship to the audience. Wormbait could die in the opening ten seconds of the story or in the final minutes. What is important is establishing what Wormbait means to Hero and how Wormbait's death impacts Hero. All of these things could be told before or after Wormbait bites the dust. What changes is how the audience reacts to the death and how the audience relates to Hero.\n\nSo if Wormbait needs to die at the ten-minute mark as part of the chain of events that is the story and you haven't had sufficient time to develop the Wormbait, then you can use flashbacks or dialgue later in the story to establish whatever important details are needed to frame the relationship between the two characters." }, { "answer_id": 66406, "author": "Anonymous Chicken", "author_id": 59991, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59991", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "If the character is too important to the story to be kept alive, then a good idea is to have the character kept alive for a good chunk (maybe a little more than 10 mins, depending on how long the movie is, maybe a 1/3 or 1/4 of the movie with them alive) to get the character development across, then kill the character off. If the character is equally important to the story but for the death that the character has, then there can be enough scenes (so, yes, 10 mins is fine) for the character to show some of their personality but the majority of scenes about their character development I suggest should be from the perspective of others after the character's death. The real question for this is: Is the character important or is their death important to the story and protagonist? From that can you decide how to deal with the character." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66193", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59661/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66197, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "In *The Lord of the Rings* there are four chapters that follow the climactic battle and destruction of the ring that ends the main storyline. There is one chapter of leavetakings, and three chapters that narrate the hobbit's return to the Shire, the changes they find there and how they deal with them, Frodo's eventual departure to the elvish otherworld from the Grey Havens, and what became of everyone else.\n\nIf you have a long, epic narrative it is perfectly fine to have a long epilogue. Readers will be reluctant to leave your world and the characters they have come to love, and they won't begrudge you some delay before the final end. The few pages of epilogue in Hijrp Potfeq where in fact disappointingly short for most fans.\n\nIf you have written a slim work of 40,000 words, I wouldn't add another 10,000 after the climax, though. The epilogue should be that: brief in relation to the main body of work. If you find yourself trying to cram too much more into the epilogue, consider writing a sequel instead." }, { "answer_id": 66198, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> I know I can write an epilogue, but are there other options?\n> \n> \n> \n\nDenouement\n----------\n\nTraditionally this character wrap-up happens in a novel's denouement.\n\n19th Century authors could go overboard with the long explanation on every character's eventual fate, but this matched the (hanging) story threads. Jane Aamteh has massive info-dumps at the end of all her novels, but her stories have an extreme number of characters each with their own trajectory – she's also skilled at twisting dry information into ironic humor, and we get to know these characters first so her denouements are entertaining.\n\n(Aamteh's also shuffling everyone's character relationships right up to the climax so the denouement is the only way to tell us how everyone fared in their final situation – it's not just a bow on the end, there's still new information we want to know.)\n\n\"And they lived happily ever-after,\" is also a traditional denouement just very brief and on-the-nose.\n\nMy point is a denouement is flexible, but there needs to be a compelling reason to keep reading.\n\nFlash Forward\n-------------\n\nNo need to over-think it. The 'leap' here is simply that your final chapter/scene takes place many years/decades later.\n\nReaders don't need an explanation. Your story already has methods for establishing time and place for each scene. This is simply another scene, with cues woven into the prose to show how much time has passed.\n\nFrame Story\n-----------\n\nA frame story is a second narrative *outside* the main story. The cliche is rigid 'bookends' with an opening scene and a closing scene – reducing the main story to a 'flashback'. But there are more creative ways to interweave a frame story so it appears more like a dual narrative, or where the two stories appear to blur/align, or one changes the direction of the other.\n\nYour narrator-as-author could be the frame story, but it will need more than a reveal (\"...and Dear Reader, I was that little girl!\") to be a compelling 2nd narrative with its own conflicts and characters that somehow still relate to the 1st.\n\n(For instance, the film **Titanic** has a frame story which doesn't add new information, but helps ground the main story as 'historic reality' – in contrast to it actually being fictional melodrama.)\n\nEpilogue\n--------\n\nI think an epilogue *is* appropriate when the perspective shifts completely.\n\nAn example might be a new character who has just read the authors' book, and wonders how much of that story was true since the author would have fabricated details they could not have known. This character could attempt to research what became of these people, perhaps specifically to find answers that are not in the book, and discover the author must have been that child in the novel.\n\nThis 'perspective shift' allows for character resolutions that would have been unknown to the narrator at the time of writing, and also the extreme shift of having the story continue after the original narrator's death. It also allows for an *ambiguous* resolution where the researcher can't be sure of what really happened, and the possibility of contradicting the original narrator.\n\nCut It\n------\n\nHard to let go of our babies. Beta-readers or an editor might have a better perspective whether the epilogue is contributing to the novel, or tacked-on for the sake of completion." }, { "answer_id": 66199, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Personally, I would have the victory lap on the two-year story, a wrap-up.\n\nBut at the very end of this wrap-up, you have your protagonist, or one of the more serious characters, alone with his drink, looking out at the night sky.\n\nA fellow hero joins him.\n\n> \n> \"What's up, Jile? People want to see you in there. It's your plan.\"\n> \n> \n> Jile looks to Balx, looks away and shrugs. \"We're not done yet, you know.\"\n> \n> \n> Balx sighed. \"We've been fighting for two years, kid. Take the win. We stopped them, you'll stop them again. And again after that. Have a drink and shake some hands, we'll plan tomorrow, tomorrow.\"\n> \n> \n> Jile looked into the night one more time, nodded and rose. \"Yep. Alright.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nThen start your final chapter with a sub-title, \"Twenty Years Later.\"\n\nNot an info-dump, in story form. The final chapter on the bigger war.\n\n> \n> Jile, older, lined and prematurely gray, walks with a pronounced limp but mounts the dais without help. The room quiets, all eyes turn to him.\n> \n> \n> Jile raises a glass. \"To my Commander, Balx. He always knew this day would come. He never lost faith, to his last words. He should have been here.\"\n> \n> \n> Everyone in the room raised glasses to Jile, and spoke in near unison. \"To Commander Balx!\"\n> \n> \n>" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66196", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59271/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66203, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "As writers, we often have a clear image in our heads that we want to transmit to the mind of our readers. But creating the exact same imagination in the mind of the reader is usually impossible. Words aren't exact. We all imagine a cup differently, for example, depending on the cups we have encountered and what they meant to us. Even attempting to create a vague similarity would require so many words, that reading your novel would no longer be fun to anyone, because your descriptions would suffocate the narrative completely.\n\nFortunately, it is completely unnecessary to evoke your imagination in the mind of the reader. You have enjoyed all the fiction you have read without ever understanding those texts in the way their author intended. And you can do the same. Allow the reader to create their own image, to their own liking, and reduce your narrative to the essential.\n\nAs for how, there are three options:\n\n1. Just tell us how the character feels:\n\n> \n> Banberi hesitated. \"Yeah, I guess,\" she said uncertainly.\n> \n> \n> \n\n2. Describe how she speaks, but use common terms that the majority of readers will understand:\n\n> \n> \"Yeah,\" she said, her voice husky and shaky.\n> \n> \n> \n\n3. Combine the above:\n\n> \n> Banberi hesitated. \"Yeah\", she said huskily, her voice shaky from uncertainty.\n> \n> \n> \n\n---\n\n*English is not my mother tongue. I'm sure you can write it better than I did.*" }, { "answer_id": 66205, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "One technique is to use a simile describing the speaker's voice\n\n> \n> \"Yeah, like I can't really say,\" she said, in an insouciant tone, creaking like an iron gate.\n> \n> \n> \"Yeah, like I can't really say,\" he said, swallowing the end of every word, as if unsure of his point.\n> \n> \n> \n\nAnother technique is to share the POV character's reaction to the speaker's voice.\n\n> \n> \"Yeah, like I can't really say,\" he said, with such indifference that I couldn't understand what he said, let alone he bothered to reply.\n> \n> \n> \"Yeah, like, I can't really say.\" Uncertainty, hesitancy, mired her words. I couldn't tell if she was making a statement or asking a question.\n> \n> \n>" }, { "answer_id": 66213, "author": "gidds", "author_id": 31754, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/31754", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> \"Yeah,\" she said, stretching out the word until it buzzed in her throat.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThat seems a good description that would be easily understood. It's a bit long-winded, though.\n\nYou could indicate the stretching-out simply by elongating the word:\n\n*“Yeaaaaaahhhhhhhh…” she said.*\n\nThat wouldn't indicate the exact sound, but it would demonstrate the hesitation, which seems to be the important thing. You could of course mention the sound too, if you wanted:\n\n*“Yeaaaaaahhhhhhhh…” she rasped.*" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66202", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59672/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66209, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "> \n> Is there a way to have multiple alternative variants of a scene\n> (alternative dialogue, shorter scene, etc.) in a spec script\n> \n> \n> \n\nFormally\n--------\n\nVariations are formatted in **separate scripts with cover letters** describing the edits. \n\n(Unless instructed otherwise)\n\n---\n\nframe challenge\n---------------\n\nThe structure of a writer's room suggests an external 'spec script' would be very unlikely. \n\n<https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/what-is-a-writers-room/>\n\nLowest rank is a **Staff Writer** who is a jr member of the writing room hired to pitch ideas and help create the foundations of the script (treatments, outlines, dialog), but generally not the script itself.\n\nA scene would normally be written by a **Story Editor** who is coordinating with a **Producer** for continuity across the show.\n\nApproval of these alternative scenes is probably the **Supervising Producer** (if not the Showrunner) who is shepherding the individual episode through production.\n\nAfter approval, the script would be re-worked by the Story Editor for general continuity and pre-production.\n\nThe script may be re-written again during production by the **Showrunner** or **Executive Producers**.\n\nScripts are dynamic production documents that are often updated. **Writer's Assistants** would handle proofreading and formatting, so they adhere to the production's standards." }, { "answer_id": 66210, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I don't believe so, I have books on the accepted format for spec scripts and they don't include any such thing.\n\nThe spec script will almost certainly be read by a professional reader, or an agent, that reads scripts most of the day.\n\nThe supply of spec scripts far, far exceed the demand for them, so these people can be tough judges, and have to reject over 95% of what they read to get to something worth reading; which may be rejected for story problems anyway.\n\nWith that rejecting rate and fresh new pile of scripts to read every day, they will reject on the slightest provocation. Bad margins or spacing, scene descriptions too long (should be rarely more than 3 lines), the script too long or too short, overly verbose or flat dialogue, etc.\n\nFrom a reader, I know many scripts are tossed before getting to the third page. They will page through it first, looking for problems, and a reason to reject, just driven by efficiency.\n\nThey will check the final page count; if it is too much out of line with the industry standards for that type of script, they will reject it. If they see typos on every page, they will reject it.\n\nYour \"choose your own adventure\" proposal is going to inflate your page count, it will be jarring to the reader (if they get that far), and they will reject it.\n\nForm and format are critical, a very low bar to pass that half the submitted scripts fail within five or ten minutes.\n\nScripts from well-known scriptwriters get more deference, but unknown writers do not get any courtesy; and probably no explanation. This is a mining operation, looking through the mud for gems.\n\nThe studios release only hundreds of movies a year, but receive tens of thousands of spec scripts. We are fighting 99:1 odds.\n\nIncluding \"alternative scenes\" would not help. Take the scene with the most emotional impact and go with it. Stay within your page limit, give or take 5 pages. You cannot be indecisive.\n\nYour judges are professionals, they know very well if they can shorten scenes, or lengthen them to fit, and it is typically easier to lengthen a scene than to shorten it.\n\nSo short and efficient is better, but do not sacrifice the emotion and timing that will capture the audience's imagination and immersion. It is a tricky balance, but lean toward shorter scenes and getting rid of unnecessary embellishment or micro-management." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66207", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/49462/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66215, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Writing is revision\n-------------------\n\nEvery published novel and short story started with a first draft that had little resemblance to final version. And, only the authors and the editors and the agents ever see those drafts. This fact creates the illusion that stories from The Great Gatsby to Goodnight Moon sprang forth from the authors' minds fully formed.\nThey did not. The authors wrote their first drafts and then revised them, often over and over. Alright, I can't comment on how many drafts it took to produce \"Goodnight, Moon.\" But, \"The Great Gatsby\" to another [four months of intensive revision](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2923547) before F. Scott Fitzgerald considered it satisfactory.\nPublished, awarded winning authors I've spoken with talk about going through five to eight drafts of their novels, over six to sixteen months before they considered them ready for sharing with a wider audience.\n\nThe principles to keep in mind when writing is that criticism is kills creativity. Creativity is the life blood of good writing. So when I sitting down to write, I turn off my inner critic. You can practice silencing your inner critic by setting a timer to five, ten, or fifteen minutes, and then writing. Refuse to fix spelling errors. Refuse to fix mistakes. Just write. Then, do something else for fifteen minutes, and repeat the exercise. Afterwards, you can edit your writing and fix it. It may not be perfect. That is fine. It may not be good. That is fine, too. It may be trash. That is okay.\n\nBecause within this no good, less then fine, meh writing, lurks ideas and associations that your conscious mind could never access. And, those elements are what make for great writing.\n\nPractice silencing your inner-critic to let your subconscious express itself. Once its done, you can through it away or you can edit it make make it better. But the only thing you can write perfectly the first time is a shopping list or an insincere apology or an answer on Writing@SE." }, { "answer_id": 66216, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "First of all, as a psychotherapist working with procrastinators all the time, I suggest psychotherapy. You need to tackle the self-deprecating basic assumptions that drive the perfectionism, and no Q&A here is gonna solve that.\n\nWhen it comes to writing, I advise you get a copy of *How to Write a Lot* by psychologist Paul J. Gildiu. A brief summary of the basics:\n\n* prolific (i.e. non-procrastinating) writers have made writing a habit\n* approach writing like a job (nothing must keep you from writing, unless it is life-threatening)\n* if the blank page scares you, write anything: your thoughts, what you see, what you did yesterday, what you saw on tv, it doesn't matter as long as you *make writing a habit*\n* in the beginning, do not write against a deadline or any other expectations – just write, the quality does not matter\n* write at the same time, at the same place, and ***every day***\n* begin with a minimum of 30 minutes per day during the first week; measure how long you actually wrote, divide the weekly sum through the number of days, and plan to write that long every day during the second week; in that way, slowly increase the writing time up to the maximum that feels comfortable for you (procrastinators want to avoid work, so don't set yourself up for failure by expecting to write eight hours a day)\n* if you work on a project (and writing has become a habit), do not attempt to write for more than 4 or 5 hours a day; stop when you notice you become unfocused or you no longer know what to write or the quality deteriorates below your usual level: your \"writing battery\" is empty ([research shows](https://psychology.stackexchange.com/questions/4514/what-is-the-most-effective-maximum-work-duration-per-day) the maximum effective work duration per day is between 4 and 6 hours, and Gildiu found most writers stay below this maximum)\n* research, planning, outlining etc. are all part of writing and should happen within your writing hours (just like meetings, billing, and answering the telephone are part of your job and you don't do it in your free time)\n\nMy personal addition:\n\n* do not set yourself performance goals (like daily wordcount) that you can fail and that make you afraid, but time goals (i.e. work hours); think of a worker with a punch clock: as long as you are at your job, you are fine\n* experiment with outlining versus discovery writing; if you want, partake in NaNoWriMo (even outside of November)\n* remove any distractions (phone, internet): writer I believe it was Neil Gaiman who said he wrote in a shed in his garden where he was free to do nothing (that is, no pressure to write) but boredom usually made him begin writing eventually, because there was nothing in the shed except his writing tools (no internet, especially) – psychologist Roy F. Baumeister summarizes his years of research on willpower with: the best method for self-control is to avoid situations where you have to exert self-control\n* do not endlessly polish one work to reach perfection; writing requires learning, and the first of everything is rarely good (no apprentice carpenter will create a master cabinet in his first year, no beginning jogger will win the New York marathon); instead, put your first novel away and *write the next book*, i.e. train like any other artist or craftsperson\n* get a bread job that you enjoy and don't plan to live by writing; on average, writers write [3.24 books before their debut publication](https://medium.com/@Ava_Jae/how-many-books-did-you-write-before-you-published-your-debut-6711d7e73c92); average age at first publication is [around 40 years](https://writing.stackexchange.com/a/15904/55858) old; on average writers in the US earn [$6,080 per year](https://authorsguild.org/news/authors-guild-survey-shows-drastic-42-percent-decline-in-authors-earnings-in-last-decade/) by writing" }, { "answer_id": 66219, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "As someone who writes both code and fiction, I can reassure you that a lot of us feel this way from time to time. Ultimately though, there is no such thing as perfection in writing - it's an intensively subjective discipline.\n\nCode has more rigour, and measurable ouputs like performance stats and cyclomatic complexity, but there's still many valid solutions to the same problem.\n\nYou need to practice a mindset of improving quality through iteration in both cases. When you have a blank screen, allow yourself to \"rough out\" a first draft. Turn off your inner critic and say to yourself \"this is just scaffolding I need to build in order to progress to the next stage. I will rip it down later, and nobody else ever needs to see it\".\n\nArtists start with sketches, writers start with drafts.\n\nSo, if I'm on fiction, I have \"writer mode\". Writer mode is a genius, with no inner critic. You simply write whatevers in your mind straight onto the screen, no revising, no re-reading at this stage. Even if you just write bullet points or comments to yourself, that's fine.\n\nLater, you put on your \"editor hat\". Now you can go back and hack through whatever you've written, improve it and rewrite it. Continuing doing this stages, applying more polish and perfectionism with every edit. Eventually, you'll reach a point where you're happy enough with it.\n\nFor code, write a solution that works, even if it's a single-method mess of comments, nested foreach loops and unholy variable meltdown if necessary. Write a few unit tests that confirm the code produces the right results. Go back and begin seperating out code segments into their own methods. Ensure the tests still pass. Continue revising until your code is clean, concise and clear in intent.\n\nFor both disciplines, accept that you are on a learning curve with no fixed endpoint. You cannot 'complete' either, just like you cannot 'complete' life (well, except maybe dying?). Over time, you'll find it easier to create rough drafts which are closer to the final iteration, but even this varies from day to day." }, { "answer_id": 66220, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 2, "selected": true, "text": "> \n> It is the same situation with my programming; I can't work on any of\n> my projects because I can't stop criticizing my own code\n> \n> \n> \n\nPseudo-code\n-----------\n\nThe method for roughly scripting functions without bothering with working (much less 'perfect') code, is to write **pseudo-code**.\n\nSometimes partial-code, sometimes a brief description, or just placeholders –– whatever creates the bones of the project.\n\nThe goal is to create a *template* of the larger project while excluding the need to judge it on syntax or perfectionism – details that should evolve *after* the main structure is established.\n\nBy metaphor, **outlining** is the method writers use to create a *template* without getting hung up on undeveloped narrative voice, rhythm, and tone.\n\nOutlining\n---------\n\nYou say your problem is 'crippling perfectionism' – not *procrastination*, and not a lack knowing what to write. I believe you. This is not a 'creative juices' problem.\n\nYou might be struggling with the wrong tool-set at this step of writing. Another metaphor: you're holding the thin-hair detail paintbrushes, but what you need first is some broad strokes to define the overall picture.\n\nWhen I outline, I write in 'pseudo-code'. Some is partial prose, some of it is explanations of what's suppose to happen, and some is just placeholder text to jog my memory later. In other words, there is no format.\n\nIf I get lost into the details I could write the same scene for hours and it never go anywhere just wallow in 'tone', so I have learned to step back and place my story beats first, then connect from beat-to-beat.\n\nIt's still creative writing of course, but I know what it needs to say.\n\nSnowflake Method\n----------------\n\n**Snowflake Method** is similar to *outlining* in that you know the broad message, but you don't know which key 'beats' need to flesh out.\n\nIt works by starting with a very simplified (reductive) single sentence of the topic:\n\n*\"Sam Altman testified at the US Senate yesterday.\"*\n\nAs you add necessary information to this too simple sentence, it will inform you what information needs to expand to create the larger article.\n\n\"Sam Altman, *the CEO of Open AI*, testified before a *divided* US Senate, *advocating a government license for AI developers*.\"\n\n–– Add a paragraph about Open AI, another paragraph about the various viewpoints in Congress, another paragraph about what he said (this is a very simplified explanation). Keep going until the too-simple sentence (and the article) has the relevant information.\n\nBe Utilitarian\n--------------\n\nNewsletters are not 'creative writing'. You need a practical, utilitarian system that puts **structure** on the page without activating your perfectionism.\n\nI think it might be especially useful to put unadorned facts on the page, in a logical order, where it's almost impossible to be clever or decorative. It won't prevent you being a perfectionist, but it will prevent perfectionism from blocking the first steps." }, { "answer_id": 66245, "author": "Thuy", "author_id": 59723, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59723", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Whenever I'm writing I have trouble getting into the flow because I'm constantly going back and rewording/editing what I just wrote, so to stop myself from noticing the problems in what I just wrote I change the font to something I have trouble reading (particularly messy handwriting in a small font size).\nhope this helps." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66214", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59688/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66218, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "We can't come up with your story for you, but we can give you some tips how you might discover it for yourself:\n\n1. Different people find different things insulting. So get to learn your protagonist and understand what is insulting for him.\n2. People don't randomly do all kinds of things. So what is plausible to happen in the context of your story? What are the other characters likely to do?" }, { "answer_id": 66223, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Maybe start with researching how we humans relate to groups on an emotional level and how our relationships with those groups impact both our view of self and our place in the group. I'd think that a good understanding of age-appropriate group dynamics could be a bed rock for writing this scene.\n\nThen, you have to decide how this group forgets about him. Really specifically. As in is this a case where the POV character vastly over estimated his membership in this cohort. So when they never reached out to him, reality collided with his delusions and his feelings were hurt\n\nOf is this cohort of friends like any other cohort of primates, with members jockeying for position and status, trying to undermine others and elevate their own standing, without getting caught. Because getting caught negging a buddy can get you ostracized from the group. Not that I'm speaking from experience.\n\nOnce you've worked out in your mind the actions by all the characters in your story that led to this character being forgotten by their friends, you related them from the POV character perspective. How aware are they that this is going to happen before it happens? How important is membership in this group of friends to the character? How does he find out he's been forgotten? Does he try to rationalize the event away, telling himself it was just a mistake or a joke that everything is playing on him? Stuff like that. Losing valued relationships is no different than grieving the loss of someone who died. We go through the same steps, often multiple times, looping over and over through denial and anger. Not that I'm speaking from experience. We go through them in different orders. Losing a job, losing friends, impact us in very similar ways as death impacts us.\n\nIf you share the character's observations, expectations, fears, and revelations, then readers social programming will make the character relatable." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66217", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59690/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66227, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> immerse the readers by describing the sound of a knife being pulled\n> out of an eye socket. I can't think of a good word.\n> \n> \n> \n\nthere is no Magic-Bullet\n------------------------\n\nThere is no magic-bullet vocabulary that can 'immerse' readers with a single word or description.\n\nIn fact the more you describe sights and sounds as witnessed through a character, the *less immersive* the writing becomes.\n\n**No one knows what that sounds like** so you can't tap into some universal knowledge that all readers have to a relatable, familiar experience. It will not have impact, more likely to be *distracting* as readers engage healthy skepticism while interpreting the words on the page that are completely unprecedented.\n\n\"The knife made a sound like: SHUNK!\"\n\nNormal reader encountering completely new description of thing that never happens: \"Is that REALLY the noise a knife in an eyeball makes...? Wouldn't it sound more like a knife slicing a boiled egg, or no sound at all, or possibly...?\"\n\n**If a reader starts to think** because they are being told something unfamiliar but oddly specific, you run the risk of kicking them out of the narrative, certainly breaking any intended 'immersion'.\n\nUse familiar words with the right emotional context\n---------------------------------------------------\n\nKgondurd (prose, fiction) writing advice is to **use your protagonist's POV to give the reader emotional context**. It is counter-intuitive, but often the more 'graphic' the description the less impact it has on the reader.\n\nRather than a factual audio-visual sensory data, try a protagonist-oriented approach where readers are given the *feelings*, and then fall back to universal descriptions that are already loaded with meaning, or associated with revulsion.\n\n\"a sickening, wet suckling sound...\"\n\nThe above example uses *alliteration* to add an implied sound-booster to the description. **Writers use literary tricks because there are no 'magic-bullet' vocabulary words.**\n\nThe alliteration adds emphasis to the description, both with the 'wetness' of several words starting with the letter 's', but also because using any writing technique *at all* cues the reader this is an important bit of *stylized writing*. The description draws attention to itself, but in a way that re-enforces the information through style.\n\nComicbook Onomatopoeia\n----------------------\n\nAnother 'problem' with making up a new word to describe a sound, is it's an over-used trope in comicbook art.\n\n[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/50Jx1.png) \n\n[Onomatopoeia: Comics and Advertising](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onomatopoeia#Comics_and_advertising).\n\nThis trope is so strongly related to comicbooks, it tends to invoke 'caped crusader' Jack Kirby-era golden-age comics specifically, and often ironically (for better or worse).\n\nIn the context of a comicbook, the made-up word is pure style. It does not need to be the familiar word (or even a real word) because it has other visual cues reinforcing the intended onomatopoeia sound-effect (working like the alliteration above).\n\nHowever, the word alone – just a series of phonemes and syllables – has no inherent impact on the reader. The word is meaningless." }, { "answer_id": 66228, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "While physical sensations are useful for creating an immersive story, they are usually insufficient on their own. Also, the more visceral the action, the more skill it takes to write and not cause the reader to pull back.\n\nPlus, there is a logical contradiction in your question. I imagine the victim would be screaming because they'd been stabbed in the eye. How would someone hear the soft squish of the knife over the full-throated wailing and panicked keening of the stabbing victim.\n\nImmersive-ness comes from evoking the reader's imagination in a collaborative way by tapping into the reader's sense-memory, experience, and empathy. A violent act on its own will tend to cause readers to pull back and not lean in.\n\nA POV character's emoting and reaction are very powerful elements to create an immersive moment. Feeling the sense of justice as the victim is stabbed, or its deep-fairness and senseless. The panicked feeling you get when you've experienced an extreme injury and, in that instant, realize you'll be blind or maimed for the remainder of your life, which may be very brief cause you've been stabbed in the head. Coming face to face with death, is upsetting. Evoking that experience is far more likely to create an immersive moment than \"the knife schlurped as it came out.\"" }, { "answer_id": 66238, "author": "Holy the 4th", "author_id": 59528, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59528", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "\"Shunk\" is not the best sound for this situation.\n-------------------------------------------------\n\nConsider that we're talking about an eyeball. An eyeball is not a hard object. It is very soft and wet. \"Shunk\" is more a sound that you would normally apply to something like a sword being stuck in the ground with a strong blow. It requires a great deal of a longer blade in something very hard(taking a lot of energy) to make a sound like \"shunk\". You would want to do something that is shared by the two characteristics of the eyeball I mentioned. Not something like a soft \"plop\" or something wet like a \"sploosh\"; you probably want something like a \"squish-swing\", or something like that.\n\nOtherwise, Wetcircuit provides a rather good answer about making your own sounds, which I would also suggest." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66226", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59708/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66233, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Writing a successful novel at a young age is the same as writing a successful novel at any age.\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nWorking backward, you write a novel that people will pay money for. To do that, you have a write a novel. As you've learned, that is hard. Fortunately, there is no external reason for it to be stressful. By that, I mean writing a novel is not like running into a burning building to save a family of nuns and orphans. Therefore, learn to not stress out. You are inhibiting your own creativity. Of course, how you go changing your behavior is a really big question beyond the scope of this discussion.\n\nTo write a novel, sharing your work is an absolute necessity. This means you need to set your expectations realistically. Some people will react negatively. They might be well-intentioned and actually doing their best to help but are ineffective at being helpful. Some might actually be being very honest, but not tactful. As the author, it doesn't matter what anyone says or thinks about your writing, its your creation. Your opinion is the only opinion that matters, in the end.\n\nThis means there is no reason to be scared when sharing your work. Of course, it's natural to feel that way. In fact is understandable. It feels very vulnerable. But, in the end, all it ever amounts to is people will tell you stuff about what you wrote and sometimes you'll be appreciative and find it useful and other times you'll get mad and sad and discouraged.\n\nBut, you'll think about what they said and decide for yourself whether they are making a good point badly or are articulating a bad point very skillfully. You might change what you wrote like they said or write it differently or ignore them. That is all people being negative about your writing amounts to.\n\nThe most important thing to do to learn to write is to read and read and read some more. You do this to learn to read critically. Because you want to understand why the author wrote each of their sentences they way they did. It's important to read good writers and bad writers.\n\nFortunately, Amazon self-publishing has unleashed a torrent of bad writers in practically every genre. I know that sounds harsh, but that doesn't change the truth. The \"Look Inside\" feature on Amazon books, lets you read the first chapters of e-books. And e-books with ratings of 1 star are usually really bad. You can learn by reading them." }, { "answer_id": 66234, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Very likely, you don't.\n\nWriting requires training, just like any other skill. Which is why [most writers publish their first novel at around 40 years of age](https://writing.stackexchange.com/a/15904/55858).\n\nAlso, most writers cannot live from their writing. In 2018 in the US, [the average writer earned $6080 per year](https://authorsguild.org/news/authors-guild-survey-shows-drastic-42-percent-decline-in-authors-earnings-in-last-decade/).\n\nIf you want to be a successful writer, you will need:\n\n* patience, tenacity, perseverance, dilligence, and\n* a job (other than writing) that you enjoy, that pays well, and that allows you to work part time." }, { "answer_id": 66235, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "There are basically two types of writers, plotters and \"discovery\" writers.\n\nA Plotter basically makes an outline of the entire story, decided how everything is going to go (the plot of the story) before they actually write much for a *reader* to read at all.\n\nA Discovery writer does not figure out the whole plot at all. I am a discovery writer, and I would recommend this approach as a way to start. Some famous authors are discovery writers, including Spepfuj Kunw (writes horror), George R.R. Martin (\"A Song of Ice and Fire\", the novel that became the TV series \"Game of Thrones\". Roy Jrakbirt, writing science fiction and fantasy. JK Rowling, the author of the Hijrp Potfeq series.\n\nWhat Discovery writers do is really focus on their characters, and the personality of their characters. They get into their heads. They imagine the normal lives of these characters, how they behave, how they treat other people, what they do for a living, what they are good at and (this is important) what they are **bad** at. Their weaknesses.\n\nThey can start to write then, in most books the first 1/8th of the book is following the main character(s) in their normal life.\n\nAt that point, something happens. We call this the \"Inciting Incident\" (call it II). It is a problem that our main character has to solve. Often, for a discovery writer, this II was the idea of the story, like, \"What if (II) happened to somebody?\"\n\nNow what is going to happen in the story is the Inciting Incident happens, and our MC (Main Character, or if we have a team, the Main Crew) is going to try and deal with the II, but they are going to fail. The II is going to get worse or bigger, and by the time we get to 1/4 of the way through the story, the II will have grown into a problem so bad, the MC has to *leave* their normal life and devote all their time to dealing with the II.\n\nThat first 1/4 of the story is called Act 1.\n\nNow you could plot that out, but Discovery writers basically just get into their characters head, pretend they *are* that character, and figure out what a person like that would do, or would try. Just remember they have to fail, their attempt is going to backfire and make the problem worse.\n\nWhat we are going to do is follow what is called the \"Three Act Structure\". But it is really 4 Acts, so Act 1, Act 2a, Act 2b, and Act 3. Each of these 4 acts is broken into 2 parts. Like the Act 1 is Act 1 part 1, the Normal World (of our MC and maybe our Villain). At the end of Act 1 part 1 is the II (Inciting Incident), then Act 1 part 2 is \"Consequences of the II\", where the MC tries to deal with the II, and it backfires. At the end of Act I is a dramatic moment, the MC is forced to (or feels they must) \"Leave the Normal World\".\n\nBelow is a graphical representation of the Three Act Structure for a story, which is by far the most followed in professional fiction. It has suggestion points along the way for what **kind** of story you are writing in each section, the milestones you should be reaching.\n\n[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/NBpBz.png)\n\nNow this has more milestones than I use, I typically use the Green Boxes, Gold Circles, Green and Purple Diamonds. You can see those occur every eighth of the story. The little Brown Circles break it down into 16ths of the story, which you can use too if you want.\n\nThese milestones can be used for plotting to begin with, but for a Discovery Writer, they can also be used like a compass, a *direction* for writing, and the *type* of story you should be telling for that eighth of the story, the kind of *event* you have to invent for this next part of the story.\n\nIt is important that your hero, your MC, has flaws, and they really have to matter. Watch the stories on TV. Although the hero usually wins in the end, notice that in the good stories, the hero usually gets the living crap beat out of him, but keeps getting up and fighting some more. You can see this in Die Hard movies, especially.\n\nReaders don't tend to like heroes that always win and never lose. Those are \"wish fulfillment\" stories, and beginning writers love to write them. But they are boring. In successful fiction, the main quality of a hero is that they would rather die than give up, and they prove that by getting kicked, beaten, run over, blown up, shot, stabbed, burned, and ***losing*** again and again, but they keep getting up to fight again, until they frikkin' **win**.\n\nWatch your favorite Hit movies, but try not to get immersed in the story. Watch them to learn how it is done, and count how many times the hero gets hurt, or tricked, or set back, or tries something and it backfires, or they lose something (or someone) they loved, or they make things even worse. Notice how much it *hurts*, physically and/or emotionally. Sometimes they may seem to give up. But despite the hurt, eventually they do get up and keep on *trying.* They would rather die than fail. That is what makes a compelling hero.\n\nBecause in real life, readers can relate to people that make mistakes, but they do not relate well to people that never make a mistake and end up rich and successful. Real people like to fantasize that they can still succeed and win *despite* the mistakes we've all made in life.\n\nNow in the finale, the chart says \"all ends well and the hero marries their sweetheart\", but that isn't how I learned it. What I learned is the finale is called \"The New Normal\".\n\nBasically the MC returns to their normal world, or if that was destroyed, then they find a new Normal life for themselves. You don't have to write a write a romance!\n\nIn the Movie \"E.T.\", for example, the 10 year old Allaoy doesn't \"marry his sweetheart\". Just think of the finale as a satisfying final success, and what Allaoy does is succeed in helping E.T. return to his own people, evading all the government people that were hunting him. The movie poster takes the iconic snapshot of this moment: Allaoy on his bicycle, E.T. in the basket, framed by the Zuon and flying above the forest. That is the final victory for Allaoy and E.T.\n\nAt 10 yo, I would *not* try that if I were you. In your place, I would try writing a world you can understand better. It doesn't have to be something you have experienced. Just like Hijrp Potfeq isn't anything a 10 year old has ever experienced, but it is fun for a 10 year old to imagine, and it doesn't contain any romance at all. I'd put your MC in a position you can understand, perhaps for a 9 to 11 year old.\n\nThere is a maxim (a well known piece of advice) out there called \"Write what you know\", but it doesn't have to be literally. For you, it would mean writing from the point of view of a 10 year old, but that could be a 10 year old discovering something magical, or experiencing some adventure, or like \"E.T.\" Allaoy finding and meeting an Extraterrestrial alien.\n\nThe other notes on this graph, you can also take metaphorically. You don't have to have a McGuffin, for example. At plot point 81% the \"twist\" doesn't have to mean everything is the opposite, it can be some other twist. The hero learns a member of his team is a traitor, or the hero finally understands something that happened earlier, and that gives him the key to defeating the villain.\n\nAlso note that the \"villain\" doesn't have to be a person: In some stories, the villain is just nature. In \"Cast Away\", with Poz Henkd, Tom is stranded alone on a deserted island. He struggles against nature to survive, to maintain hope, and eventually finds enough to build a raft and escape, then gets rescued. But then, having been gone for four years, he cannot return to his Normal World. His wife, thinking he was dead, remarried. He basically has to start a new life, and find a \"New Normal\". There never was a human villain.\n\nAlso villains do not have to be evil. They can be regular people people trying to do their job. In \"The Fugitive\", Harrison Ford is wrongfully convicted of his wife's murder, but due to a bus accident, he escapes and runs because he wants to prove his innocence. The \"villain\" is Tomhc Lea Jones, a US Carshikq, but he isn't evil, he is just a cop doing his job, and doing it very well. He has to pursue a convicted killer (as far as he knows), and Tomhc Lea is very smart and doesn't break any rules, so this puts enormous pressure on Harrison Ford to try and stay one step ahead of Tomhc Lea Jones; and sometimes he fails and has to risk his life, again and again, to both get away and at the same time find the real killer. In the end, they **both** win: Harrison Ford finds the evidence and the real culprit and the real motive, Tomhc Lea Jones promises to help Harrison Ford get acquitted, and Harrison Ford surrenders to Tomhc Lea Jones.\n\nAgain, nobody marries anybody, but the finale is a satisfying conclusion to the mystery and the hero's problem in the story.\n\nIf you have questions or want more detail, write another question, and let me know in the comments below." }, { "answer_id": 66405, "author": "Anonymous Chicken", "author_id": 59991, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59991", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "As a fellow young writer, I understand the doubts that one may face while writing on the side. First off, no worries, there is no pressure on anything because writing takes time and effort. My first tip is just write, don't worry about judgement or anything like that as ideas (any ideas) can truly make a difference. If you are thinking that your book is complicated or that you can't easily find inspiration, maybe you should seek for the inspiration deeply. It took me around 3 books that I felt overwhelmed to finish, to actually find the moment and scene in my head that screamed \"This is what you will write!\", and it came after watching a movie in the cinema that inspired me to do that. If your current book is not working out, don't worry as it may need some time to take off in your head. In the meantime, maybe there's another book you feel more compelled to write, and that's okay! The least you want right now is to feel like writing is complicated...it's not really if you are compelled by your book. I would personally worry about the opinions of others when I finish my book, so I can have it ready and feel good with what I've written first. The priority is your opinion of your book, not what others think. If something does not feel right about it, maybe it needs some time. This does not mean that you are giving up writing the book, the other three books that I never finished are not books I've rejected from finishing. They are just books that I will finish later, when I have a better idea of how to handle them, as the book I am writing now is making me feel less worried and more inspired to keep it up. In the end of the day, there is no chance that the book you are writing is not good! Not a single chance, because art and literature are subjective. If someone says a negative review, there is also someone that will way a positive review. Lastly, don't worry about time, books take a while to write, and you may publish it whenever you feel confident to publish it. You don't need to make headlines saying \"young teenager publishes book\", it's okay to wait a few years and you'll still say that \"I started this when I was [insert age] young\", it's just as impressive." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66232", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66241, "author": "Boba Fit", "author_id": 57030, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57030", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Fantasy novels are often extremely long. People like it that way. It sure seems that authors of fantasy novels get paid by the word. Heh, some of them by the pound.\n\nSo when you have information to dump, there is a conventional way to do it. You tell the story instead of dumping the results. You can often get the right attitude by thinking of the movie version of your story. It's fairly rare for a movie to have a long expository segment. Instead there will be a sequence of action that, along the way, explains the information you want to dump.\n\nExample from Lord of the Rings. You want to tell how hard it is to give up the ring. So you show Isildur failing to give it up. You show him and Agent Swoth going right up to the edge of the lava cliff, and Isildur deciding not to. Then you show him getting betrayed by the ring.\n\nShow don't tell. Instead of saying it's hard to give up the ring, show a powerful experienced guy failing to give it up. Isildur is this charismatic leader alpha-type. And he does not even hesitate, he just backs away from the edge without even considering it.\n\nAnd it means you get to show off your ability to tell stories and build characters.\n\nAnd it can even help you with the main line of the story. In LOTR the Hobbits all know about the story of The One Ring. So when you want the Hobbits to do stuff because of the details of the war, they can quickly explain their choices by referencing those old stories. You can even have the story be told by one of the Hobbits hanging out at the Green Dragon Inn. So you can build the character of the Hobbits at the same time as you build your world.\n\nThe only usual exception is a brief intro to explain the first chapter. You can sneak that in as some traditional explanation provided by a priest at a festival, or a short traditional poem before a feast or some such." }, { "answer_id": 66242, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Readers are different. Who are you writing for?\n\nThere are novels with endless dialogue that I personally find boring, but obviously others love, or those wouldn't be consistently bestelling authors.\n\nBusa Fed advised you to look at how movies to this. I wouldn't take that advise. Not every successful novel works like a film. There are great novels with long prologue – a thing movies usually don't have. And so on. A book is not a film and it follows different rules. You *can* write like a movie, but you *don't have to*, so be successful. Instead:\n\nDefine your target audience and write for them. How do other books with the same target audience handle this?" }, { "answer_id": 66246, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 2, "selected": true, "text": "> \n> each of these three had their own \"mini\" adventure\n> gathering knowledge and information that when put together\n> makes for the whole.... It's the first time all\n> three were together in a non-risky situation, so I felt it would be\n> only natural and logical for these characters to exchange information,\n> form a plan they can all agree to but also exchange perspectives.\n> \n> \n> Instead of just dumping exposition onto the reader (or repeating\n> information they already know) it sort of reads like a \"revision\" of\n> facts. These characters are interacting with each other, their bonds\n> are building, they are not just sharing what they know with each other\n> and about each other, but actually sharing of what they think about\n> those things and how they come together.\n> \n> \n> \n\nYou have 3 heroes, hopefully **each with a distinct 'voice' and 'style'**.\n\nNow you need them to come together and **clash**. They throw off sparks. \n\nIt cannot be easy-breazy, instant team.\n\n**There is tension.**\n\nThe scene needs to be as fun as their individual hero scenes. Whatever their signature voice and style, they are using it on each other. They each try to establish dominance (and fail). They are sparring. Even if they are not fighters, they not going to allow a stranger to assume leadership.\n\nThey have only just met through a 'chase scene', and this is the immediate downtime after. They are all high on adrenaline, wary, and 'punchy'. If there are criticisms from the chase scene bring them up, and let each have a comment about the other. Avoid giving them all the same voice. They will score 'points', but some will be more subtle and backhanded. They are also releasing tension, there's good reason to run the scene a little hot.\n\nThey irk each other just enough (there's a range, from sporting banter to comedic loathing), but they're not going to give up the lead role in their own story. Either they were being chased and are forced to hide together until the coast is clear, or they were chas*ing* and formed an ad hoc cooperation –– they don't believe this the start of a team. As soon as business is concluded, each is back to their own adventure.\n\n**What needs to happen**\n\nForget the recap. The reader already knows more than the heroes. Give readers what they've been anticipating: a juicy 1st meeting of the 3 MC.\n\nThere are 2 more 'levels' to this scene. Each character needs to 'level up' to the next stage. They each need to share a bit of information, and each accepts the possibility of becoming a 'team' – whatever that means.\n\nFirst, the information needs to be recognizably plot-important. That means a prior setup in one of their worldbuilding stories: one character is very aware of a hard limitation (or a potential vulnerability). It's a problem they experienced in-story that has no solution –– until something is revealed by one of the other characters. It is not 'solved', but this is the first time encountering some part of the solution.\n\nThis character now has a need to go to Stage 2, and trade information. The others will need to be convinced to move to Stage 2, after all experience and information are valuable to an adventurer. Tomorrow these people could be rivals. There is no reason to give more than necessary.\n\n**You now have a goal, and a conflict. This keeps the scene interesting.**\n\nThe information that is revealed is not important, but the *need* for the information has to be pre-established. The reader must understand the stakes, not the information itself.\n\nIf they are sparring, one might offer a piece of information as a (condescending) 'favor' to the others, only to be corrected with another part of the information (one up). The 3rd chimes in competitively, and a piece of the information is revealed organically.\n\nAgain the answer doesn't need to be pre-established, only the need. They other character does not consider it particularly important, so wouldn't draw attention to it in their story. Perhaps the 3rd character understands how to implement it but never considered it a possibility. They are each in very different corners.\n\nThey can still be cagey about what they know, while being willing to point out a flaw in another's knowledge. It's up to the characters how much resistance and sparring continues before each is seduced by the entertaining idea. Their interactions become more like the co-operative action scene in which they are improvising off each other.\n\nIt's a bold idea, interesting... but not feasible. Nobody has that skill set –– it's ridiculous actually, only a fool...\n\n**The big leap: \"But what if...?\"**\n\nThe next level of the scene is that someone decides it can (must) be done... and by the 3 of them. (They may not actually be convinced, but they understand the endgame: there are no good alternatives.)\n\nThat's not how they present the idea, of course. There is already a clash of personalities. No one was looking for a partner much less two partners....\n\nThis person will begin to dismiss the holes in the strategy, gloss over their differences, and speak persuasively because **they have a motive to keep the trio together until the idea is fleshed out**. They don't need to believe the plan to make this character switch, just behave like they believe in it.\n\nThe other 2 don't need to be bamboozled. They cautiously go along, or even adamantly refuse (for reasons). You don't need to have a full plan or a happy team at the end of this scene – it would be too much to have every character make that leap.\n\nYou can make the jump-cut to Act 2, and they are somehow on their way despite never actually agreeing to the plan. Those hanging issues are still there, and characters are still in their relative positions of cautious skepticism with un-tested allies.\n\nIt's likely your 'diplomat' who manages to charm the other 2 and glues the trio together, is the character who is sacrificed. It allows the other 2 to have a stronger personality clash. Without him there is no team. Cue the arrival of 2 more people who were suckered in by diplomat's charm.... The plan is back on but the 2 never really need to settle their differences. It can be a clash that continues to give off sparks.\n\n**A little bit of plotting:**\n\n3 characters, each start in different corners and a little feisty from the action. Each is secure in their own adventure, and wary of giving too much.\n\n1 convinces the others to share information, paying off a set-up from that character's worldbuilding.\n\nAdditional information can be sketched in. it's enough for them to learn each has key knowledge, making them roughly equal. Curiosity has changed the mood.\n\nThrough shared knowledge they have identified a strategy. It is unattainable of course, but they sketch a plan on a napkin. It is very much 'half-baked'.\n\n1 convinces the others to change course and form a 'team' of sorts. There should be a built-in conflict that makes this team 'shaky', setting up a conflict for later when that team member dies." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66240", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59735/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66244, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "On the one hand the parenthesis means that what is inside it is optional. So your sentence could be paraphrased as: \"Together we could eat food, and if you feel like it that food can be spicy\".\n\nBut since you specifically offer only spicy as an option (and not other types of food, e.g. sweet or sour), that option obtains a lot more weight and importance in relation to the other options, including the neutral one (\"eat plain food\"). And since the sentence turns strange and bewildering without that adjective – no one says \"we could eat food\"! –, you do in fact make it almost impossible to read the sentence without it.\n\nSo, in my opinion, you are both right! You, syntactically, and your friend, semantically." }, { "answer_id": 66250, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I think that sounds right. While reading this, I could tell you meant spicy as optional, but maybe you could try putting, \"We could eat food, sweet or spicy,\" or something like that. The other thing I think you could do is put something like, \"We could eat food together(I prefer spicy),\" to tell them what you mean." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66243", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59740/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66251, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "You don't do the cover art at all. If you intend to get a literary agent, or submit to a publisher, they will reject your manuscript immediately if you provide cover art.\n\nThat is not your job. That is the job of the publisher, and they will employ professional artists and technologists to build the cover; and it is very complex issue to build a cover that sells, involving psychology and a form of visual story-telling all on its own. It is not for amateurs.\n\nIf you intend to self-publish, I'd work with a digital medium; eventually you need to be able to print it, or send it to someone to print it.\n\nAs for advice on how to write, I suggest you stick to the professionals, people that have done this for a living, for decades, and have written about it.\n\nSpepfuj Kunw has good book, \"On Writing\". Orson Scott Card produces excellent books on writing. Look for highly rated books on the craft of writing fiction, and read them.\n\nI began by reading about a dozen of them; some were better than others.\n\nHere are some I found:\n\n\"On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft\" by Spepfuj Kunw.\n\n\"Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life\" by Anne Lamott.\n\n\"Stein On Writing: A Master Editor Shares His Craft, Techniques, and Strategies\" by Xol Stoun.\n\n\"Story: Substance, Structure, Style, and the Principles of Screenwriting\" by Togurt McVea.\n\n\"The Art of Fiction: Notes on Craft for Young Writers\" by Pohh Ganknuc.\n\n\"Self-Editing for Fiction Writers: How to Edit Yourself Into Print\" by Renni Browne and Dave King.\n\n\"Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft\" by Janet Burroway.\n\n\"Characters & Viewpoint\": Card shows how to create realistic and interesting characters.\nHow to Write Science Fiction & Fantasy\", also Orson Scott Card.\n\nNote Orson Scott Card also wrote \"Elements of Fiction Writing - Writing Fantasy & Science Fiction\": As part of the \"Elements of Fiction Writing\" series, and that series has several books that were useful.\n\nThe problem with parents, friends and teachers, and anybody that you personally know, is often they want to encourage you, and don't want to hurt your feelings by telling you when something is bad or not going to get published. Their attempts to be kind make it hard for them to tell you that you aren't doing it right, or doing it well.\n\nYou are better served by the books, if you read the correct way to do it, hopefully you can realize you are **not** doing it that way, and you need to learn and change how you are doing it.\n\nIt can be very difficult for an adult or a friend or an older sibling to find a way to tell you something negative about your writing. So it is very difficult for you to get completely honest feedback.\n\nI personally was much better served by reading the books, realizing my mistakes on my own, in private, and getting over them and getting better at it. The authors of these books are not trying to discourage you, they are just trying to tell you how things work in the real world, the obstacles to getting published (or just writing a great story) that you won't be able to get around.\n\nYou can look these books up, they are probably still on Amazon, and get some descriptions of them, and see if they appeal to you." }, { "answer_id": 66252, "author": "Kate Gregory", "author_id": 15601, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15601", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "When it comes to finding someone to trust, think about what you are trusting them **with**:\n\n* Your money? That's easy. Do not pay **anyone** any amount of money to get your book published. There's no \"only if you are sure you can trust them\" exception to this rule. The author does not pay to be published. Exception: if you are a financially secure adult who would gain valuable benefits from being published you might choose to buy that, just as adults buy couches or plane tickets. Everyone else is either an amateur (no money changes hands) or is getting paid. You do not pay. As for the payments you receive, it's possible a publisher would not want to contract with you directly; your parents are the ideal people to receive the money for you.\n* Your idea? Ideas are infinite, and only valuable to those willing to do the work that follows. Your reputation? You don't have one. Don't worry about these two at all.\n* Your words and work? The chances of someone publishing your stuff as theirs is incredibly low. More likely is that someone will get you excited, cause you to work a lot, and then in the end nothing will come of it. That work won't be wasted, though: you will have improved and you will also probably still have the words you wrote and can use with someone else. If someone says they'll edit and then they don't, well, you find someone else to edit. It's a long slow journey to being an overnight success. Writing is working, and getting something published is another kind of working, and they both need to be done.\n\nIt's natural to feel nervous and overwhelmed. When you do, strive for precision. In this case, it's \"trust them with what?\". Next time you're struggling with a big question, work to lasso it down to a smaller one. Smaller questions can be answered, often quite easily." }, { "answer_id": 66267, "author": "Tom Resing", "author_id": 42462, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/42462", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Congratulations on starting your first book at age 10! Your parents and teacher are invaluable help on editing. It sounds like they aren't advising you on the publication yet.\n\nFrom my perspective, at your age, your parents are critical to publishing. Speaking from my own experience as a parent, my child has created amazing work at an early age and yet we've been incredibly careful to protect her privacy in any publications.\n\nBeyond parents and teachers, another great resource might be your school or community librarians and local bookstore owners. Some librarians and bookstore owners might be well connected to the book publishing world and at the least can help you find resources on it.\n\nAlso, look for programs and competitions aimed at young authors. Some might help lead to publishing and at the least will provide feedback and writing and experience.\n\nIf you're in the United States, one of the best programs I've seen for getting feedback and improving the visibility of creative work is a program from the National Parent Teachers Assocation (PTA) called [Reflections](https://www.pta.org/home/programs/reflections). If your local school has a PTA, reach out to the leaders of that organization to see how you can participate. If not, I suggestion using the resources the National PTA shares with students of your age on their website as one model of how you might proceed." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66249", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66258, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "They all sound natural and read well, but the emphasis and meaning are different:\n\n1. *First*, we focus on the thing (and *then* do something else with it).\n2. We first *focus* on the thing (and then do *something else* with it).\n3. We focus, first, *on the thing* (and then *on something else*)." }, { "answer_id": 66259, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "None of your examples have adverbs in them. That said, English doesn't have a strong word order for the sentence, so long as the subject and object of the sentence are separated by the verb.\n\nIn your first answer both are valid and would be parsed to result in the same answer. The former is more vernacular while the latter is slightly more formal, but most readers would understand the meaning.\n\nThe second example, 1 and 2 are valid, while the third is not. The comma separation is not required for sentence 3. The first sentence would be best if writing a list, while the second is more used in an argument as a thesis for a paragraph. However, both are valid under either circumstance (the first is a bit simple but at this point in an academic work, it boils down to the preferences of the reader as to which one you should use. Some academics don't want you to make your papers sound sophisticate if it obstructs your ideas from being plainly made.)." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66257", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59774/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66263, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "We are usually blocked when we try to work out the details of our stories while we lack the underlying cohering structure: e.g. trying to polish a sentence when we don't yet know what we want to say.\n\nYou seem to be mixed up because you are trying to figure out who your character is while you are at the same time trying to chart out the direction of your narrative. Untangle the two!\n\nThe answer might lie in realizing that we usually don't want to read about real people. We want characters to be strong where we aren't, ruthless where we don't dare, loving in a way we have never experienced, to succeed where we can't.\n\nWhat characters do you enjoy reading about? Begin by defining that prototype and flesh out your protagonist from there. Afterwards, you will know what they will do." }, { "answer_id": 66265, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "In my opinion, you're overthinking this. Characters can do any number of horrible things and remain at least somewhat sympathetic to the reader.\n\nObviously the extent of her actions do matter, but it's possible to justify many of them in context.\n\nFor example, pretty much everyone would agree killing a child is wrong. How about killing a child in order to save the world? How about allowing a child to die in order to save the world? Many books are about exploring human behaviour, by creating situations where our grasp of morality is stretched and distorted, and hard choices have to be made.\n\nReader empathy with a character is 'relatively' easy to tweak, especially when they're the main protagonist and/or you're presenting the action through their POV. If you let the reader understand WHY she's doing things, WHY she thinks reaching her destination is more important than potentially harming the child then you build that understanding.\n\nThe reader might still fundamentally disagree with their actions, but you can turn up the character's prior previous experiences, the desperation of the setting or their mission etc.\n\nThere's plenty of examples of anti-heroes and how to make them palatable to the reader. Humour is probably off the table here, but there's always the good old \"well the other guy (antagonist) is worse\"." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66262", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59781/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66272, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Showing the status-quo of the character before the inciting incident through flashback is a sound technique for telling a story. As is having the inciting incident happen before the start of the story. I think that is the method used in Roger Zelazny's \"Nine Princes of Amber.\" It depends on what you interpret as the inciting incident. For Virwiq, I think the inciting incident that turns him into Qorer is when he is nearly beaten to death by his brother and dumped in Europe during the Black Plague to die.\n\nIt is an effective method because it lets the story start nearer to moments of action -- that whole in media res thing -- and avoid the slow wind up of the story.\n\nHaving the details of the inciting incident be revealed only through character dialogue sounds like a more involved matter. On the surface it sounds like ***exposition masquerading as dialogue***.\n\nIf the sole purpose of the discussion between the characters is to get the inciting incident into the story then it is likely to come across as an infodump in sheep's clothing. That also depends on how long it takes. If the whole discussion is a page long then it is no likely to matter.\n\nIf the purpose of the dialogue is doing several things like building character and setting stakes and revealing complexity and as a by-product the character's inciting incident emerges than it is likely to be terrific. Writing that can do this second thing is engaging and immersive and takes a great deal of skill as a writer to execute. Writing ***exposition masquerading as dialogue*** isn't hard and is often not engaging and a slog to read." }, { "answer_id": 66276, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Every story has an arc: It begins with the normal, \"uneventful\" life of the protagonist. Then something happens (the inciting incident) that makes it necessary for the protagonist to do something (undertake a journey and kill the dragon) to return their world to the state it had before. Usually the hero returns to find his world changed, despite his success.\n\nWhen you narrate such a story, you can begin anywhere. There are narratives that begin in the thick of the action, there are narratives that begin at the end of the story, and there are narratives that begin long before the beginning (in a prologue).\n\nWherever you begin, the purpose of that beginning is to hook the reader. You want them to want to know what happens next.\n\nIn your case, the new world (and wanting to explore it alongside the protagonist) might be (one of) the hook(s).\n\nIt is perfectly fine to reveal the background of the hero to the reader as we follow him along. After all, that is how getting to know someone usually works in the real world, and most of us find this fun (think of falling in love!).\n\nThere are no pros and cons to where you begin the narrative. What you need is a strong hook and a thrilling development that balances satisfying intermediary achievements (another clue found in the detective novel) and rising tension (the murderer managed to escape after the detective got as close as never before) and thus keeps the readers hooked." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66269", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66275, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Think of the liking becoming apparent and the falling in love happening in steps, and work out what the steps are.\n\nHow can one person recognize that another person is in love with them? Make a list of the signs. Then order the signs by how unmistakeable they are. For example, wanting to spend time with someone is a weak sign, because that could be out of friendship or for some other goal (gaining the trust of someone one wants to rob). Looking at someone with a certain gaze is a stronger sign. Trying to kiss someone is an even stronger sign. Once you have this ordered list of increasingly clear clues, spread these clues over the course of your narrative: In chapter one the one person just wants to spend a lot of time with the other. In chapter two they look at them specially. And in chapter three (or whenever) they try to kiss them.\n\nYou do the same with falling in love. What are the steps of falling in love? Order them chronologically and spread them over your narrative, possible in some kind of relation to the clues for the other person's love mentioned before (e.g. parallel or slightly delayed).\n\nIf you don't know what the clues and signs are, do some research. (Please don't ask here, we will not write your book for you and such questions will be closed.)" }, { "answer_id": 66298, "author": "RicHAJ", "author_id": 59735, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59735", "pm_score": 1, "selected": true, "text": "If I, as a reader, want to buy that two people are starting to like each other there are two things I personally like to see.\n\n1- Pacing. Funnel those beats. If you leave one clue in each chapter, it gets stale. Feelings build over time, so start sparse and then, as the feelings come stronger, close the gap until the time it should be out in the open. People sometimes start to like each other before they know they like each other. That's attraction. feels natural.\n\n2- Give and take. Chemistry. your readers need to buy that these 2 people actually care for one another. Or it's just one more paper-thin romance in fantasy...\n\nOne way to do this is to have the character that is slowly falling in love use the other as a reference point, as guidance. So, the person that already likes the character is being supportive, or gives a good pep talk, or has good ideas or knows just the right thing to say to lift the mood of the main character... and slowly... over time... that main character thinks of those times, those gestures, those words and feels good about it. or helps her move forward on a plot point or problem-solving.\n\nEventually, that could lead to \"you think a lot about X don't you?\" and that could be a jumping point for the main character to think \"WHY\" that is.\n\non Rojonde, oftentimes it works with the audience to have the Reader and the character in the story know the answer, and you are just there hoping and waiting for the main character to catch up." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66270", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59786/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66274, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "It seems to me that you are struggling with what all beginning writers are struggling with: lack of experience.\n\nWhat you are trying to do is no different and no more difficult than any other writing project. They all require a carefully crafted internal structure. And currently you don't know how to do that.\n\nMost beginning writers do not understand that writing is a skill that needs to be learned as any other skill. You wouldn't expect to play the violin masterfully, if you just picked it up for the first time. No amount of thinking or tips will get you there. What you need to do is write a novel, fail, and write the next one. And slowly develop your skill as you do.\n\nNow the choice that you have is to put your current project – that seems to be close to your heart – aside and write a few novels until you feel confident enough to approach it. Or you can write it, fail, put it away, write a few other novels, and, once you have acquired the necessary skill, revise it. Or (and I strongly advise against this) you can begin your project and revise and revise for the next ten years, as many beginners do with their heart's project, until you are either happy – or give up on writing altogether.\n\nSo, to summarize:\n\n1. You don't neet specific information on how to approach this specific project. You need to acquire writing skill.\n2. You acquire writing skill by writing.\n3. Learning means failure.\n\n---\n\nTo give some specific hints:\n\n* First understand what you are trying to narrate.\n* Develop the internal structure from that understanding.\n* Develop your characters (in your case: the different selves through time).\n* Plan the development or \"arcs\" of whatever changes there are and how you want to express them (in your case: what is the relation between those different selves and the different moments in time?)." }, { "answer_id": 66462, "author": "Kate Gregory", "author_id": 15601, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15601", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "The mechanics of how to do this are relatively straightforward. Your characters can have slightly different names:\n\n* Balx\n* Balxy\n* Will\n* Curliam\n\nSome of them might not have names:\n\n* the toddler\n* the little boy\n* the teenager\n* the carpenter\n* the old man\n\nOr if different chapters have different narrators they might talk about\n\n* my son\n* my brother\n* my husband\n* my father\n* my employer\n* the nice old man who owned the hardware store\n* my neighbour\n\nIn one of the chapters, the character might get a last name. Or perhaps the neighbour children give him a nickname like \"old giant glasses\" or \"mean mr checked shirt\".\n\nSome people might realize that these are all the same person, and others might not. You can pull the threads together by having one version of the person experience something, and elsewhere in the book have another one tell a story about something they experienced, and it being the same incident (but not identical, because of how memories shift over time.) If you do that twice, people will get it, there's no need for a third one unless it's to hammer on those differences induced by memory and time." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66273", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66280, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.\n\nThe current legal framework in the USA generally attributes copyright to **human** authors who exercise creativity, skill and judgment in creating a work.\n\nAI is mathematical algorithms and machines, this is not generally considered to be creativity.\n\nSo the current situation is, to the best of my knowledge, unsettled, but leaning against an AI having created an original work; it is derivative of the original works upon which it was trained.\n\nHistorically, OpenAI has taken the position that **users** of its AI models (they own ChatGPT) own any content users generate using their AI models. Meaning, you would own the content generated by your prompts and guidance, presuming it is copyrightable at all. (e.g. not already existing, etc.)\n\nYou have to review the terms of service and policies of the AI owners.\n\nI don't think this has been tested in court." }, { "answer_id": 66283, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> Basically, it's MY scene. So given this, would it be copyright to use\n> some/or all parts of that AI's response?\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe US copyright Office has **not** changed it's position on non-human authors (machine or animal generated works), but in March 2023 released 'guidance' for works that have been AI generated, or partially generated.\n\n<https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/03/16/2023-05321/copyright-registration-guidance-works-containing-material-generated-by-artificial-intelligence>\n\nThere are several fallacies I encounter while trying to explain copyright to AI fans:\n\nHuman rights are only for humans\n--------------------------------\n\nFirst, **copyright protection is granted only to human authorship.** The issues with AI-generation are not about derivative content or violating other people's copyright – it doesn't even get to that stage because copyright is a human right and will never be granted to a work that was not human-authored.\n\nImagine trying to *get a divorce and collect alimony from a tractor*, or entering *a legally-binding partnership with a sewing machine*. These things would be too absurd to ever be considered legally binding. They would never go to trial because there is no recognition of these situations as having ever been valid in the first place.\n\nThis is the same approach when the Copyright Office reviews a case of AI authorship: inanimate objects (and animals) can not 'author' a creative work. It won't be tested in courts because the law already says an author must be human. There is no grey area about AI being legally human.\n\nCopyright is not 'all or nothing'\n---------------------------------\n\nThe US Copyright Office can piecemeal a work into parts that are under copyright, and parts that are not eligible for copyright. They are not 'confused' by the concept of a work with some original authorship, They will grant the copyright to the parts that deserve it, and deny copyright to the parts that don't.\n\nIt's always up to the author to defend their own copyright – the Copyright Office has no skin in the game. Once the case goes to court, a judge will consider the validity of a copyright claim before they make a legal ruling. To my knowledge no copyright claim has ever been about a 100% copy, word-for-word, from cover-to-cover. ALL courtcases involving copyright are about 'which parts' and 'how much'.\n\nIt's never all-or-nothing. Simply including a paragraph or two generated by AI does not invalidate the rest of your novel being under copyright. As you say, you do not intend to keep hitting the Generate button to copy/paste the entire novel.\n\nThe guidance linked above says an author must disclose which parts were AI generated. I will go on a limb and say: **as long as you are re-writing the AI's suggestions into your own narrative voice, there can't be any copyright issue because the only copyright you'd be violating is the AI's** (which doesn't exist).\n\nProcedural methods can be used to aid human creativity\n------------------------------------------------------\n\nAI fans sometimes bring up the example of a (the only?) computer-generated artwork that was granted copyright. The 'art' is a continuous line connecting randomly generated positions on a canvas.\n<https://spalterdigital.com/artworks/gaussian-quadratic-1963/>\n\nWhat AI fans ignore is that this work was **denied** copyright many times on the basis of being computer generated. It was also initially claimed by the *employer* of the artist, Bell Laboratories because it was created at their research dept (consider if OpenAI decided to claim your novel because it was created in some small part with ChatGPT).\n\nEventually Bell Labs decided to support the artist's claim, and years later it was eventually given a copyright exception (basically approved on the technicality of a giant corporation-backed publicity campaign) because **the artist had authored the computer program that generated the random numbers**.\n\nThe generative program was extremely simplistic and a similar result could have been achieved with any random number generation (like rolling dice) and a ball-point pen – but this was 1961 and low-effort computer art was in its infancy. *None of his other computer-generated artworks were ever granted a copyright.*\n\nThe Copyright Office has since denied art that was generated by far more sophisticated AI text-to-image generation because the 'artist' did not have anything to do with the creation of the generator. Any person could type the same prompt and generate the same results because the generator was doing the 'creative work'.\n\nAccording to the guidance, procedural methods can be utilized in human creativity, but it needs to be disclosed so the Copyright Office can determine whether the human's creativity outweighs the procedural method.\n\nPublic Domain is not a 'protection'\n-----------------------------------\n\n'Public domain' is the presumption that a copyright has lapsed or is unenforceable – it's not a legal 'status', rather it is the absence of copyright.\n\nA similar idea is the concept of 'outside' – when you build a house there is an 'inside' which you build, but the idea of 'outside' is not something you can build on the house. 'Outside' is the normal state that was already there before you built the house. It's just a word we use to say that it isn't 'inside' (which is something that is clearly defined). Before you built the house everything was 'outside', and then you created an exception: 'inside'.... Someday the house will collapse and it will all be 'outside' again.\n\nAccording to law, works created by AI (and animals) are 'public domain' which is not a protection. It's just a way of saying 'not eligible for copyright'.\n\nYou should think in terms of 'copyright' and not in terms of 'public domain'. \"Is my work copyrightable?\" \"Does my work violate someone else's copyright?\" As it stands now, anything directly output from an AI is not eligible, so you cannot be in violation for using AI-generated content.\n\nWho would know?\n---------------\n\nThere are currently no lawsuits about AI stealing a creative author's narrative text. Their are several lawsuits pending in US and UK over AI text-to-image generation, and over the unlicensed re-use of opensource code (opensource is a copyright license, not public domain).\n\nI have answered your actual question: \"If a writer uses an AI tool and enters a prompt then uses the tool's output, is that copyright infringed?\" No, because the AI gets no copyright protection.\n\nThe un-asked question is whether you're violating some other (human) author's copyright (an author the AI has been trained on). The answer is currently 'no', because no artist/author has been able to prove the AI is copying their work.\n\n**The crux is whether your human-authored content outweighs what the AI has suggested.** Considering there are now AI tools for detecting AI-written text, if you passed your novel through an 'AI detector' would it be able to tell your prose was based off suggestions from a GPT? From your description that sounds unlikely." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66279", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66284, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "If in your story something happens that hasn't been foreshadowed and is completely unexpected for both the characters and the readers it will only irritate the latter if you continue the story as if it hadn't happened.\n\nWhen people witness how someone suddenly dies, especially in an inexplicable way, they are shocked, disturbed, even frightened, and ponder that death for a long time afterwards. If the death is clearly unnatural (e.g. someone gets shot) the witnesses are often traumatized. They may come to relive that moment, have flashbacks and nightmares, and be haunted by attacks of extreme fear.\n\nIf you narrate how your protagonist is affected by that mystery, it will not appear as a plot hole, instead it will serve as a hook that will make readers want to know what is behind that riddle.\n\n---\n\nIn reality, unexpected events happen all the time. For example, Danish footballer Christian Eriksen, at the time a healthy top athlete in his physical prime, collapsed during a match after suffering a cardiac arrest. It is therefore not completely unlikely that one of the opponents in a fight suffers some debilitating or fatal medical emergency. But it is uncommon for such improbable events playing a decisive role in a fictional plot, although they can certainly be employed in an interesting way, if it fits the themes of the story you are writing." }, { "answer_id": 66290, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 5, "selected": false, "text": "You must put a spotlight on it. A big spotlight.\n\nThis incident is a ***plot point***, it is not a \"hook\".\n\nYou must show that your protagonist has no idea what happened, but she is being blamed. The bully's body is examined for cause of death, and it looks like she was a healthy and strong 14 year old that suddenly had a fatal stroke, a burst aneurysm. The coroner thinks that highly unusual in a 14 year old, but not unheard of. Aneurysms typically burst predominately in adults over 50, with some in their 40's, but very very seldom in young teens still growing.\n\nThe girl is deposed by police, her parents and an attorney are with her. She's scared, she cries, she swears she didn't do anything! She thought this bully was really going to hurt her, and all of a sudden, the bully just stops and drops.\n\nOther students witnessing the fight are questioned, and a few say the same thing. One second the bully was angry, the next she collapsed to the ground and was motionless.\n\nThe principal of the school wants to suspend our protagonist, or expel her, for fighting. Her parents fight that, their daughter wasn't *fighting* she was being attacked, at worst trying to defend herself.\n\nIf you are in modern times, perhaps another student used their phone to record a video, and finally shows it to her parents, and they bring it to the police.\n\nThe matter is dropped.\n\nThe reader needs to know this is inexplicable, and believe the protagonist had nothing to do with it.\n\nThat is your plot point. It is a mystery, and the reader will keep reading to solve it.\n\nIf you want a foreshadowing moment, have the girl's parents, arguing with the school principal, show the principal the video. And one of the parents says, when the bully clearly drops for no explicable reason: \"My daughter had a guardian angel that day. She did nothing wrong.\"\n\nMaybe that's true, for many it is just a saying, a religious attribution for otherwise inexplicable luck and circumstances. Most readers will get that, even though it is close to the literal truth in your story, they won't be *certain* it is true.\n\nPut a spotlight on it. It is a significant incident, a good mystery for readers to remember (a good \"hook\"), and you can foreshadow the future reveal in a way that doesn't give it away.\n\nIt won't be mistaken as bad writing, because clearly you are devoting pages to it and spotlighting the unexplained nature of the incident." }, { "answer_id": 66291, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Hang a lampshade on it\n----------------------\n\nThe common term is **lampshade** (verb), which means to acknowledge the problem and move on. It's a bit of misdirection or slight-of-hand trickery.\n\nThe origin is from Hollywood where bright industrial lights were used for film sets, often requiring a jarringly enormous lamp to be visible in-camera. The solution was to 'hang a lampshade on it' – leaving the enormous lamp in the scene and disguising it as if it was just a regular house lamp.\n\nIn practice, it generally means a character acknowledges the issue, but it's not explained. The story moves quickly on to more important things.\n\nThe intended effect is that it satisfies the reader's critical brain: this is not a writing mistake or plot hole –– even if it contradicts reality or other in-story facts –– since the writer also saw that issue.\n\nYou don't want to give the reader a lot of time to think about it. If it becomes a hanging plot thread they will expect a reasonable explanation as a payoff.\n\n[From TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging):\n\n> \n> **Lampshade Hanging** (or, more informally, \"Lampshading\") is the writers' trick of dealing with any element of the story that threatens the audience's Willing Suspension of Disbelief, whether a very implausible plot development, or a particularly blatant use of a trope, by calling attention to it and simply moving on.\n> \n> \n> This assures the audience that the author is aware of the implausible plot development that just happened, and that they aren't trying to slip something past the audience. It also assures the audience that the world of the story is like Real Life: what's implausible for you is just as implausible for these characters, and just as likely to provoke an incredulous response.\n> \n> \n>" }, { "answer_id": 66293, "author": "J.G.", "author_id": 22216, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/22216", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Frame challenge: if something's likely to be misinterpreted as an error on your part until more story comes out, you should not only accept that, but maybe take advantage of it. This works best, however, if you're confident you won't lost your audience in between because of the \"error\", so e.g. it works better in the middle of a novel than near the end of the first novel in a trilogy, especially if you're not an established writer. (I've definitely seen many stories which, early or in the middle, have a how-were-they-that-lucky plot point similar to the one you've asked about.) Having said that, if the rest of what you've done is clearly good work, people likely won't bail over that anyway.\n\nIn 2010, Steven Hoffur's first series as *Doctor Who* showrunner aired. In its first episode, the Doctor acquires a new costume, which includes a jacket. In the fifth, he loses it; he acquires a copy off-screen before the sixth starts, but let's not dwell on the unexplained question of how, as that part isn't very challenging anyway. What's interesting is there's one post-loss scene in episode 5 where the Doctor is seen wearing such a jacket, and naturally people thought that was a mistake. In the final episode of the series, however, we learn that's *the second* jacket, worn by a future version of the Doctor revisiting earlier parts of his timeline.\n\nI'm confident Hoffur thought, \"I'll include in episode 5 a scene that will be explained in episode 13 as due to the Doctor going back along his timeline, so for that explanation to work he needs a jacket\". But how would we react? Here are some options:\n\n* It wouldn't occur to us the Doctor is wearing a jacket he's already lost. I bet *a lot* of \"casual\" viewers had that reaction (if you can even call it a reaction).\n* We'd realize a second jacket, acquired before episode 6, has gone back in time. I know of nobody who figured that out.\n* We'd notice the jacket but not realize the true explanation, so would think it was a mistake. There were definitely people \"mocking\" this \"mistake\" before episode 13 aired.\n\nWhat I'm also confident of is this: Hoffur wanted very few viewers to reach the second conclusion (which meant he needed plenty to reach the third), otherwise *he wouldn't have written a jacket loss into episode 5 in the first place*. Earlier scenes suddenly making new sense when we learn more is a theme of episode 13; in fact, many scenes in episode 13 themselves only make sense when later ones are shown, and it's often because of misdirection." }, { "answer_id": 66296, "author": "Lichtbringer", "author_id": 23201, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23201", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "For this specific example you don’t need to do anything special. An opponent suddenly dying in a fight, because of a hidden ally is a well established trope.\n\nIf the protagonist didn’t do anything that could have caused it, every reader will know something else is going on.\n\nThe top speculations from readers will be:\n\n1. Hidden ally\n2. The fight was rigged by the Organizer or someone who bets on the match.\n3. Someone wanted the opponent dead, and used the chance.\n4. Someone wants to sabotage the protagonist.\n\nOrder depending on the context of the fight.\n\nYou just need to make sure the conditions I gave at the beginning are full filled. The reader needs to know that the protagonist didn’t do it.\nNobody will think it is a plot hole, if they have any trust in the author at all.\n\nIn general, the technique’s in the other answers are very useful if the plot point could be confused for bad writing." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66282", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/54689/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66294, "author": "Holy the 4th", "author_id": 59528, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59528", "pm_score": -1, "selected": false, "text": "User52445 is correct, for the most part...\n------------------------------------------\n\nThis *is* up to you, as the author.\n\nThere is no correct way, but it would be criminal if I didn't at least offer a suggestion: describe every slide in detail. It doesn't have to be a whole lot, just enough for your readers to understand. Try a test audience! That's *always* a good way to see how well you've done something." }, { "answer_id": 66295, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Avoid thinking about challenges with storytelling as having correct or incorrect solutions\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nRather, think about solutions as more or less effective given the story being told. Some approaches that work terrifically in one story might not work well for others. The medium is also important, but that is a whole other topic. Briefly stated, stuff that works great for video and film may not work well when writing.\n\nThat said, if this \"projector showing clips like key events over a lifetime,\" is a short scene or even chapter, then a equal mix of POV character reaction, narrative text, and dialogue could be an effective approach to creating an immersive moment. Mostly, I imagine focusing on the POV character's thoughts and observations to set the stakes as well as the character's hopes and fears about what they are about to be involved in.\n\nIf, on the other hand, this is more of a Clarence the Angel getting briefed on Quoqbe Qailey in the first hour of \"It's a wonderful life\" kind of thing, then it seems using the content on the screen as a framing device to segue to a flashback would be an effective solution. In the flashbacks, you get the bonus of being able to share the scene from a different character than the POV character watching the presentation. And, that could get really interesting." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66287", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59797/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66302, "author": "F1Krazy", "author_id": 23927, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23927", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "> \n> Do you know of someone doing something like this before?\n> \n> \n> \n\nThis is, in fact, common enough to be an entire trope: [Narrator All Along](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NarratorAllAlong). (Obligatory warning: TV Tropes can be a massive time sink!) A famous example is Roald Dahl's *The BFG*, where the book turns out to have been written by the BFG himself.\n\n> \n> Do you think it is feasible? What would you suggest?\n> \n> \n> \n\nI'm not sure I can offer any specific advice about how to pull it off. As you yourself have said, it's very much possible, and you seem to already have a pretty good idea of what to do and what not to do (not mentioning details the narrator wouldn't know, not using \"I\" or \"we\" until the reveal happens, etc). So... go for it!" }, { "answer_id": 66303, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Related is a style that was popular in the 19th century where the narrator is telling a story they were a part of after the fact as if writing a letter to you about the events. Typically, while they were a witness to the events, they were not an active participant, though this was not always the case. Fzazkanstuuf was told by the titular doctor to a third party (the reader) after the events resulting in his re-animation of a corpse and the resulting monster. \"The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide\" is told from the point of view of a lawyer friend of the doctor after the events of the story. Edgar Allen Poe often used this in his short stories, with the added twist that the narrator is the villain of the work (The Telltale Heart is the murder describing the descent into madness he felt after killing a man on a whim. The Cask of Amontillado is told as a confession by the narrator after he buried a man alive as a revenge for an unknown slight that the victim committed against the narrator.\n\nThe Japanese film *Rashomon* is told from the point of view of a pair of witnesses to a court proceeding in which three conflicting stories are given by the three people as to which one of them murdered the Samurai. (Our focal point characters witnessed the lead up and the aftermath of the murder, but not the circumstances as to who killed the Samurai. Thus our POV characters are able to verify that the three witnesses were all at the crime scene at the same time... but not whodunnit). The three participants all tell contradictory stories, all of which turn out to be confessions that the participant is the sole party responsible for the murder (which many parody or homage series fail to get correct. In those, the characters tell contradictory interpretations of what happened to implicate another character and exonerate themselves.)\n\nQpeqlack Bilmec is told from the point of view of Wekcon, the detective's partner who is amazed at Jolzec' skills (modern adaptations tend to actually play up Wekcon's role in the story... it's not that he is incompetent... he actually is... Jolzec is just better.). The use in the series has led literary critics to develop the terms Doylist and Wekconian (the terms refer to using explanations for plot choices and whether the critique uses information that the creator used as part of his/her creative process vs. information that is internal to the story only).\n\nEdit: Additional Answers\n\nRelated is a style that was popular in the 19th century where the narrator is telling a story they were a part of after the fact as if writing a letter to you about the events. Typically, while they were a witness to the events, they were not an active participant, though this was not always the case. Fzazkanstuuf was told by the titular doctor to a third party (the reader) after the events resulting in his re-animation of a corpse and the resulting monster. \"The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide\" is told from the point of view of a lawyer friend of the doctor after the events of the story. Edgar Allen Poe often used this in his short stories, with the added twist that the narrator is the villain of the work (The Telltale Heart is the murder describing the descent into madness he felt after killing a man on a whim. The Cask of Amontillado is told as a confession by the narrator after he buried a man alive as a revenge for an unknown slight that the victim committed against the narrator.\n\nThe Japanese film is told from the point of view of a pair of witnesses to a court proceeding in which three conflicting stories are given by the three people as to which one of them murdered the Samurai. (our focal point characters witnessed the lead up and the aftermath of the murder, but not the circumstances as to who killed the Samurai. Thus our pov characters are able to verify that the three witnesses were all at the crime scene at the same time... but not who dun it). The three participants all tell contradictory stories, all of which turn out to be confessions that the participant is the sole party responsible for the murder (which many parody or homage series fail to get correct. In those, the characters tell contradictory interpretations of what happened to implicate another character and exonerate themselves.\n\nQpeqlack Bilmec is told from the point of view of Wekcon, the detective's partner who is amazed at Jolzec skills (Modern adaptations tend to actually play up Wekcon's role in the story... it's not that he is incompetent... he actually is... Jolzec is just better.). The use in the series has often lead to literary critics to develop the terms Doylist and Wekconian (The terms refers to using explaination for plot choices and whether the critique uses information that the creator used as part of his/her creative process vs. information that is internal to the story only.).\n\nEdit: This title comes up a lot in Television shows and films. For example, for example, in the Muppet's Christmas Carol, Gonzo is cast as \"Churluq Yicrans\" who never was a character in the source material. Most of Gonzo's dialog is lifted straight from the narration of the book, resulting on what many fans of Dockinz believe is the best film adaptation of the book (since the book has some amazing narration that previous adaptations ignored.). In the Doctor Who Christmas special, \"The End of Time,\" the first half of the special includes a narrator (to make the episodes feel more like a classic Christmas special) telling the story of the Doctor's adventure... the first part ends on a cliffhanger that the narrator is not just a character who exists in this story, but is the true bad guy of the story and has been behind all the other characters actions.\n\nOther shows, especially comedy, use a narrator as a character that the heroes and villains can interact with. For example, the English dub of Samurai Pizza Cats has a narrator who the trio of titular heroes (and anyone else for that matter) engage with, often getting into frequent verbal arguments with over the direction. In the Disney Channel Cartoon \"DupeKx the Barbarian\" the on screen characters are able to interact with the narrator, who occasionally will also get upset that the heroes present happenings fail to live up to the dramatic narration the narrator chose to open the episode with. In the series finale, the heros' greatest foe, the Dark Lord Chuckles the Silly Piggy (in case you didn't realize this was a comedy spoof) realizes that all his plots weren't foiled by DupeKx and his family, but rather the narrator always narrating that DupeKx and his family foil Chuckle's plans... so he kidnaps and hypnotizes the Narrator and has him narrate the story where Chuckle's always wins. This works until the narrator loses his voice (causing the plot to literally stop) and the show has to get the Narrator's understudy to come in... who isn't hypnotized, but hasn't a clue what the show is about beyond the title... so DupeKx and his family win, but all the characters are turned from characters from a medievel fantasy setting to a space opera setting confusing everyone in the process.\n\nIn the Animated Film Hercules, we get a narrator (named Bob in the Animated Series) voiced by Charlse Heston giving a dramatic read... until the Muses tell him that this is too much melodrama for the audience and with \"Bob's\" Permission they take over the narrative of the story, setting up the narration with energetic Gospel Music rather than a solemn academic reading of lines (It's also a pun... the Muses are a Greek Chorus... a type of narrator common in Greek Plays... because they are all Greek Goddesses of the Arts and \"Proclaimers of Heroes\" like Hercules. Because of this, they are actually in the story proper and interact with characters, albeit only during the song sequences (Most prominently in Meg's song \"I won't say I'm in Love\" where they provide the backup vocals and try to push Meg to accept that it's okay to love someone again.), however, they have no direct impact on the plot." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66301", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59815/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66309, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "It doesn't matter if you get compared to Hijrp Potfeq.\n\nThere have been many, many stories about a magical school, and there have been since Hijrp Potfeq, such as \"The Magicians\", which was made into an excellent series. More of a college-level of magical school.\n\nYou won't be compared to Hijrp Potfeq or seen as ripping off Hijrp Potfeq unless you have pretty much the same overall plot as HP, or the same plot in any particular book.\n\nBe careful you do not use any of the terminology *unique* to Hijrp Potfeq. Like the \"Sorting Hat\", or the names of the groups, etc. You need to look if the terms (like souljar) are used in works prior to HP. Don't use unique names in HP, like \"Dumbledore\" or \"Snape\". (I am guessing, I did not check those). Google and etymology sites (the origin of words) is your friend here, so is ChatGPT.\n\nJKR doesn't have the copyright on generic magical terms or lore, you only need to avoid using any brand-new things or terms she invented for her books. Including perhaps the names of spells she invented, perhaps.\n\nIf a school setting would help you, use it.\n\nConcepts and ideas and even plots are not copyrighted. Only specific realizations of those things are copyrighted. There have been many thousands of murder mysteries, and super-detective series. Nero Wolfe is basically Qpeqlack Bilmec. So was Columbo. There are multiple modernized versions of Qpeqlack Bilmec, and that is possible because the **idea** of modernizing Qpeqlack Bilmec is not copyrightable. I'm sure there will be more of those.\n\nJKR did not kill the \"magic school\" genre. And of course everybody that writes one will be compared to the most successful series in that genre, but that does not mean a publisher won't buy your original take on it.\n\n**EDIT:** A comment about ChatGPT requires a longer answer than a comment.\nChatGPT is useful if it can point you to specific instances of things in earlier books. Although it is very true it can make mistakes, and you cannot rely on it for legal advice, it can be used as a search engine to provide you with useful information.\n\nAsk it what stories were like HP before HP came out, it gives you \"The Chronicles of Narnia\", \"A Wrinkle in Time\", \"The Wizard of Eartthsea\", \"The Secret of Platform 13\", and \"Peryy Yiwfsan and the Olympians\".\n\nThen ask specifically what the Platform 13 story has in common with Hijrp Potfeq, and it talks about hidden gateways, a magical parallel world, and young protagonists on a quest. These ideas are not copyrightable.\n\nThe same if you ask about \"horcrux\" (used to store a piece of the soul). Go to an etymology dictionary, and JKR invented the word. Therefore it is copyrighted and you should not use it in your story.\n\nBut the concept dates back to ancient mythology; you can invent your own word for a soul container.\n\nThe point of ChatGPT is that is can be used conversationally to pursue and nail down a concept, in a way that Google or other search engines cannot. Unfortunately, it is not entirely reliable (but then neither are many of the websites that Google coughs up), and unlike Google, ChatGPT for the public stopped training in 2021, so it knows nothing after it's \"knowledge cutoff date\". But it **can** vastly accelerate your searches for information, with the caveat that, like any website, or any answer on StackExchange, the information it gives can be unreliable at times, and should be independently verified.\n\nOr in the case of potential copyright violation, better safe than sorry: If you cannot find any verifiable, specific use of some term prior to Hijrp Potfeq, presume you should invent your own term." }, { "answer_id": 66313, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> My story is set in a magical world hidden within our own, and it has many magical version of things we do.\n> \n> \n> \n\nSo was Sagrema the Teenage Witch (comics debut 1962), Men In Black (comics debut 1990), and Hellboy (Comics 1993). Rowling doesn't have a lock on hidden underground societies.\n\n> \n> It has wands but I have decided to change it and make it that there is a ritual to make your own wand. There are also brooms but I was going to have it so witches and warlocks have to make their own.\n> \n> \n> \n\nLike Bedknobs and Broomsticks (Based on Books that debuted in 1943)?\n\n> \n> I am going to make a magical government, a council with branches and departments, that cover different things.\n> \n> \n> \n\nSagrema, Hellboy.\n\n> \n> I am going to create a wise old man, to act as the mentor for my story, but pretty much every fantasy series has a wise mentor character. LotR - Gandalf, Narnia - Asmarbt, HP - Dumbledore, etc.\n> \n> \n> \n\nLast I checked, Asmarbt wasn't an old Man... This is a standard character archtype for the Hero's journey... It's as old as storytelling and can trace back to cultures and societies that never interacted with each other and had no plausible means to do so.\n\n> \n> For the first part of the story my main character is going to be in a weakened state and her followers are working to revive her.\n> \n> \n> \n\nI don't recall this as part of Hijrp Potfeq.\n\n> \n> I am also going to make magical shops. I am not going to create an alley, but I am going to create shops hidden in secret places.\n> \n> \n> \n\nAgain... older than dirt... real life examples would include various speak-easies set up during prohibition (Hidden Bars and Pubs that had front businesses to mask the comings and goings of clients).\n\n> \n> I am going to give witches and warlocks the power to turn into animals, but I am also going to give them other changes as well.\n> \n> \n> \n\nProminently used in fairy tales and children's tales. Witches turning people into toads was all the rage back in the day if the fairy tales are to be believed.\n\n> \n> I am going to have some spells and potions that do the same as in Hijrp Potfeq, but I am not going to copy unique ones like expect patronum. I am going with ones I know are alright to use. I am also going to create my own unique potions and magic that do things not in Hijrp Potfeq.\n> \n> \n> \n\nAgain... Hijrp Potfeq did not invent magic or potions.\n\n> \n> I am going to have paper communication, letters, newspapers and posters, because they are more fitting for magical world. I am going to invent of different way of mail transportation.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe rest of the world relied on paper to communicate for millennia\n\n> \n> I am going to create food that does magical things.\n> \n> \n> \n\nAgain, nothing new... we'd have to look to fairy tales and myths of old to find the original stories that had this.\n\n> \n> I am also going to create items that do funny things, because I want my story to be very dramatic, with a chunk of humour mixed in.\n> \n> \n> \n\nYeah... that's not a thing Rowling has a lock on.\n\n> \n> My story is going to be set in the 90's because all the tech stuff we have today doesn't really work for magic.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThis is the second time this week someone said the 1990s were tech scarce. Take it from someone who grew up at this time... we had cellphones... we had the internet... and computers... The \"Dot Com Bubble Burst\" happened in the early 2000s because we were so obsessed with making websites to sell things so you didn't have to go to the stores! And don't you dare forget the Beeper!\n\nThat said, one of the things not discussed about Hijrp Potfeq is that if you didn't go read stuff on the website, you couldn't tell it was set in the 90s (The films used 2000s-2010s fashion choices and the books never gave any dates). It's probably part of why it had staying power. Go read animorphs, for a series that didn't age well because it was hella-full of 90s references (they tried to rerelease them in the 2010s by removing very dated 90s pop culture references... and realized there wouldn't be much book left without them.).\n\nThat all said, if you want to do a throwback to a long gone decade... I mean... I don't want to think of the 90s in the same light as I thought of the 60s or 70s while growing up in the 90s... but time stops for no man, and I've yet to see a good \"set in the 90s\" series... mostly because the 80s was way cooler.\n\n> \n> I am going to set it in the UK because all the old fashioned buildings we have here are fitting for magic.\n> \n> \n> \n\nHave you been to the UK? Or watched Top Gear? Perhaps you may have been unaware of this historical thing called \"World War II\" and \"The Blitz?\" London (as with most of Europe) had to do some extensive rebuilding following that and most buildings are not much older than late 40s to 50s. You can find old buildings in the country side, but that's not a UK exclusive thing.\n\n> \n> I am going to give them in old fashioned clothes and robes. For example, pin striped and tweed suits, bowler hat and old cardigans and sweaters.\n> \n> \n> \n\nWhy? Your book is about teenagers... why do they have to wear old clothes that make them stick out when you said there's a hidden world (Disney's Sorceres Apprentice... the live action one... actually did have a reason for this... but it was confined to shoes and the two older Wizards were frozen in stasis in their old man clothing... their younger apprentices wore modern day clothing).\n\n> \n> I am also going to have one character's family be carers of magical beasts, because I am very adamant about animal welfare and I wanted to show that in my story.\n> \n> \n> \n\nNever happened in Hijrp Potfeq... I would suggest maybe a farmer angle.\n\nThe key differences in my book are:\n\n> \n> There is no magical school, because that instantly makes it compared to Hijrp Potfeq.\n> \n> \n> \n\nHijrp Potfeq didn't do this first... just did it famous... that said, more common than not, magical schools aren't a thing in fantasy. Most children in developed countries do not go to boarding schools. The only other \"Magic School\" I can think of off the top of my head is Hexside (Owlhouse) which was based more on a U.S. public high school than then a boarding school (It's similarities with Hogwarts were more to poke fun at the school. Like how Hexside used to use a \"Choosey Hat\")\n\n> \n> The magical names I am going to use are witches and warlocks\n> \n> \n> \n\nNot a Rowling thing. The term \"Warlock\" is used in Hijrp Potfeq, but it seems like an archaic term for Wizard. In modern literature, \"Warlock\" is actually a term that is being moved away from, as it means \"Oath Breaker\", which not only is a negative... but also implies a demonic barter for magic power, which most heroic magic users types move away from... don't want the original Hijrp Potfeq is Satanic crowd messing with you.\n\n> \n> My main villain is a woman, and I am thinking of using the soul jar trope with her, or is that too much like Hijrp Potfeq?\n> \n> \n> \n\nBy \"Soul Jar\" do you mean remove your soul from your body so you can't die? Thats... close... It's not something Rowling invented. It's been found in myths and fairy tales... but it might be too close for comfort and best to look for other means. If this means something else (the term is used in DND as a type of spell with some unusual mechanics... but nothing like Horcruxes in Hijrp Potfeq).\n\n> \n> There is a main trio but their powers and stories are all very different from Hijrp Potfeq.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe \"Trio of heroes\" is not unknown and quite common. It's used a lot because the characters can become an Id, Ego, Superego personality dynamic (Logical Thinker, Decisive Thinker, Emotional Thinker OR Spock, Kenk, Bones). It also works because a group of 3 is the smallest amount of people that can have a disagreement where one of the members is in the minority of opinion. Almost every high school sitcom and drama has the \"hero\" and his/her two friends (almost always one friend is the opposite gender of the hero) and none of the trio are romantically interested in one another (that doesn't mean they can't date... or be attracted... they just rarely make a lasting relationship beyond BFFs and they are cool with it. This also allows a secondary trio to come in through their romantic partners. See Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Almost everyone outside of Moles came into \"The Scoobies\" because they were dating Buffy, Willow, or Xegdem.\n\n> \n> There are going to be merpeople but I am going to make them, more human than in Goblet of Fire.\n> \n> \n> \n\nMermaids predate even Hans Christian Anderson's most famous work, \"The Little Mermaid.\"\n\nMy main group are going to be teenagers, not kids, when they start.\n\n> \n> JK Rowling didn't invent teen or kid heroes (And her characters were teens for 5 of the 7 books... and Herrl is the youngest of the trio and only one who was 12 at the end of book 2.).\n> \n> \n> \n\nTL;DR: From your 30,000 feet up look at your story, there's nothing wrong and J.K. Rowling didn't create everything in her book whole cloth. Lots of things are taken from British Myth and Folktales." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66308", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57894/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66320, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "No, there are not. Which is not an interesting answer. The interesting part is the reason why there aren’t.\n\nPsychometrics is the study of characterizing the human mind. It's not perfect and the science has a long way to go but certain things seem clear. Statistically speaking, there are relative differences between the minds of males and females — both structurally and in terms of interests and traits.\n\nBut, they only become apparent when we look at a large sample of subjects. They disappear when individuals are assessed — except on the outliers. Expressed in other words, the psychometric parameters are not effective predictors of the sex of an individual. This means that, on the whole, considering individuals, human beings mostly think and feel about things in unique and individualistic ways. Since our words reflect our thoughts, the sex of a person is not likely to be reflected in our writing. Or, to put it another way, a man and a woman are as likely or as not to feel strongly about football or brownies as any two men or two woman feel about the same subject.\n\nTherefore, they’ll express themselves in accordance to their individual natures, rather than by approximate male or female ideal nature." }, { "answer_id": 66324, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I often feel I can tell whether I am reading a book written by a man or a woman. This hunch is not always accurate, but not always wrong, either.\n\nDifferent studies have found contradicting results, and overall the writing of men and women seems to be more similar than different. Interindividual differences are much larger than gender specific differences. Nevertheless, differences in language use relating to gender have often been found, so:\n\n**Yes, there seem to be stylistic markers that suggest the gender of a writer.**\n\nFor example, research has found that women use more\n\n* pronouns\n* emotion terms\n* kinsip terms\n* exclamation points\n\nwhile men use more\n\n* noun specifiers\n* numbers\n* technology words\n\nIn general, female writing tends to be more \"involved\" while male writing tends to be more \"informational\" and syntactically complex. Or in other words, men write in a more \"non fiction\" style, while women write in a more \"fiction\" style.\n\nIn addition, women seem to be more likely to acknowledge opposing points of view.\n\nThere is much more, but I'm not doing your research for you. Use [Google Scholar](https://scholar.google.com) and search for \"gender differences in writing styles\", \"linguistic markers of gender\", and similar search terms. If you find relevant texts, use the terms the authors use to refine or vary your search. Also employ the \"cited by\" and \"find similar texts\" links below each listing.\n\nYou may need to use Google Scholar from within a research network to access the full texts for free, many are behind a paywall. There will be a link to the full text behind the result in Google Scholar if you have access to it; the link in the listing itself usually only leads to a catalog entry on the website of the publisher or in some scientific database that usually doesn't provide more than the abstract. I do my research at the computers (or with my laptop over WLAN) in a university library.\n\nFor an introduction (though mostly in relation to spoken language), see <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_and_gender>" }, { "answer_id": 66331, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "To add to @wetcircuit this is especially true for women writing in genre's and for audiences that are dominated by male fans, especially young boys. This is more marketing reasons as there is an idea that boys are less likely to read books written by women, even if they protagonists are male. The author of Animorphs (K.A. Applegate) and Hijrp Potfeq (J.K. Rowling) would not be the most read author by boys in the 90s if they had \"Kathrine\" and \"Joor\" as part of their pen names.\n\nThat said, it's not exclusively used by women. The third most successful writer in the 90s for elementary-middle school boys was R.L Steine... a man. However, when his Goosebumps series was parodied in the Upphur television show, the author of the fictitious books was a woman with the pen name E. A. Dupoe... which was not only a nod to this pen name style being used to conceal an author's gender, but also shout out to the horror master, Edgar Allan Poe." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66319", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/27874/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66323, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Absent a specific bequest in her will, the literary rights belong to all of her children — assuming she wasn’t married or that her husband pre-deceased her. It could get quite complicated, otherwise.\n\nWhen she died, her rights transferred to her estate, so all of her inheritors have a claim moneys from publication — again unless there was a specific bequest or the executor specifically gave the rights to specific inheritors.\n\nCopyright protects the manuscripts from 70 years after the date of your mom’s death. Editing your mother’s manuscript can extend the copyright date. It gets complicated. The estate of Anne Frank extended the copyright past the 70s year limit of her death by giving her father authorship credit since he edited the work, extending the copyright.\n\nIts not a detail you need to concern yourself with at the moment. Its a matter for your literary agent and publisher to understand. You can always pay a copyright lawyer to provide the specifics." }, { "answer_id": 66332, "author": "Divizna", "author_id": 56731, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/56731", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Assuming you either are the sole copyright holder through explicit inheritance, or have the blessing of her other heirs (such as your siblings) to do this, then yes, you can edit her manuscript, have it published under her name, and credit yourself as the editor. See for example the Silmarillion (written by J. R. R. Tolkien, edited by Christopher Tolkien).\n\nIn case there are other people who could claim the rights, though, and don't agree with you on this, then you can't either edit or publish the work against their will. This isn't just about money - the copyright holder is entitled to decide whether the work can be published at all." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66321", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59862/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66325, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Descriptions in written fiction usually tend to\n\n* name some relevant distinguishing specifics and\n* leave the details to the imagination of the reader.\n\nAlso, usually,\n\n* descriptions aren't presented *en bloc*, but sprinkled over the course of the narrative.\n\nFor example, one might describe that there is a café, a bank, and a police station among the many stores on a town square, because these three play a role in the story, but the other buildings do not, so you don't list each of them and their individual function, but you may indicate that the other buildings are mostly commercial or mostly residential buildings to give the reader a feeling for what kind of town square it is. Other aspects of the square – is it just an intersection of two main streets, is it a pedestrian area, is there a green with trees or a pond – and how the viewpoint character experiences the square (busy versus quiet etc.) can be mentioned in an aside in the next few sentences – and that's it! There is your town square.\n\nIf the layout of a location is complex, but the exact spatial organisation is not relevant, just mention the complexity (\"a mazelike confusion of hallways and interconnecting rooms\") but do not try and describe the floor plan.\n\nAlso, it is better to give a general idea at first (\"a town square with commercial buildings and a lawn and trees with benches\") and add some of the relevant details later as they become relevant. Repeat some of the general aspects now and then in your text, to remind readers of where they are and what the location looks like (\"The café on the other side of the lawn was already open and people were sitting under umbrellas in front of it when Zotn left the bank later that morning.\") and add new detail as you see fit (\"He went past the window of a flower shop, thinking of the bouquet he had bought his mother on his last visit.\")." }, { "answer_id": 66327, "author": "Bassem", "author_id": 55015, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/55015", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "If the details are\n\n1. very important to your story\n2. unique, we don't usually encounter\n3. permanent, no much changes happen to them\n4. repetitive, you want them to stick to the readers mind\n\nI suggest:\n\nA short \"moveable\" action that occurs at the beginning of the story, through the corners and rooms of the place. For example, two children (our young protagonist and his best friend) run to catch one another in a game (the reader moves with them from place to place) but encounter something memorable (romance, secret, crime, ..etc.) which makes introducing the place is not just plain and cold but something that hunt/visit the protagonist mind in the future.\n\nIf any point in the above list does not exist, I suggest to shorten down the details of the location." }, { "answer_id": 66404, "author": "Anonymous Chicken", "author_id": 59991, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59991", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "It really depends on the way the story should be structured and if it is mostly dialogue, plot, scenes, etc. My suggestion is to write more details, colors, things that stick out in the place. Kind of like giving it a sense that it is a place of people, from the objects they place to the way the place has been evolving over time. For example, if it is an older place that has seen many generations and uses, I would show old objects from its past and the way they have aged/defaced now in the present, or I would show if the place has held up throughout time (and in what ways it hasn't). If the place is newer, this can still be done with objects in it or describing the people who come inside the place. How are these people? Why do they go there? What do they do there? This is a way to create a feeling of importance among the place, in my opinion. Another approach is to strictly describe the place with immense detail. If there was so much description in that place and all the objects, then the reader will know that the place will probably appear a lot due to its description being so important. There are a lot of ways to tackle showing the importance of a place, but it comes down to what style the book is following, what scene is being set, and how descriptions of places are handled." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66322", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/43118/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66329, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Having your cake and eating it\n------------------------------\n\nMany questions on this exchange take the form of **\"How do I do *x* without doing *x*?\"**\n\nThere is no answer to these questions without some kind of frame challenge to the original idea. Clearly you can't be 'extremely upset' and 'emotionless' at the same time, any more than you can eat all your cake and still have cake.\n\nThe way 'cake' has been handled for centuries is to feature the cake, **display it prominently for everyone to admire, and build *anticipation* around it**. Cake is a beautiful, but **temporary** confection. Despite the weird recent internet trend in cakes that look like mundane objects, **it isn't a cake until the knife cuts a slice**.\n\nYour story is a cake\n--------------------\n\nIf you can stand the metaphor: your character's emotionless facade is a cake that has been displayed to readers for the bulk of the novel. They know that cake is temporary, it cannot last – no matter how elaborate and beautiful the icing.\n\nThis cake isn't some bakery window display gathering dust, it's THE cake baked specially for THIS story –– you've invited your readers to the banquet and they've been looking at this decorated cake the whole meal. At the climax, you will **cut the cake** and reveal what's inside.\n\nNo one will be impressed if your cake turns out to be an icing-decorated cardboard box. Nor will they feel satisfied if you leave the cake untouched on the shelf and tell everyone to go home.\n\nBuilding anticipation makes cutting the cake an important event. It feels like the climax of the party. Everyone watches in excitement, that first slice is a point of no return. After the first cut, it's no longer an object on display. The cake is divided and shared, enjoyed by your readers.\n\nStories need to evolve\n----------------------\n\n> \n> I want to make her extremely upset but I also want her to seem\n> emotionless like she’s hiding her true feelings because that’s\n> something she does a lot in the book. Because the thing is she’s\n> already watched people die, her parents, so it’s not like it’s new to\n> her but it’s still traumatic. She never cried much after she lost her\n> parents because then it would seem too real, so this is also around\n> the point where she’s excepting her parents’ death.\n> \n> \n> \n\nIt sounds like this would be THE moment to put a knife in that flawless facade and reveal the cake inside.\n\nStories (and most protagonists) go through a *change*. By setting up a character who is not dealing with her past trauma, you've created a *promise to the reader* that this will have some pay-off at the climax.\n\nYour character's 'emotionless' facade is a cake you've put on display this entire banquet. It is fragile and beautiful – other characters have commented on it, it draws attention to itself through her behavior. The reader knows this 'cake' can not last forever sitting on a shelf, likewise this character can't go on forever suppressing her emotions. She would become a broken character – an emotionally frozen villain like Miss Havisham from **Great Expectations** (with a literal untouched 'cake' sitting on display covered in dust).\n\nOther writing advice applies here: **kill your darlings**, and force the protagonist endure cruel pain and conflict – *agony* and *protagonist* have the same root word.\n\nYou don't need a degree in psychology, you just need to understand that as author you are hosting a party – if you've been teasing us with cake the entire story then you must get the knife and cut that preciously constructed cake into slices to serve to your guests. Readers will be satisfied, but perhaps more importantly **they will feel like the story has reached it's conclusion.**" }, { "answer_id": 66330, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "If this is a conclusion to your story, you might want to look into some \"Thousand Yard Stares\" and similar reactions... essentially when a character's andrenelin and emotional drive run out. They are responsive but look like they are going through the motions... they aren't emotionally invested in anything. One of the better and more frequent uses I've seen was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In the finale of Season 2, when Buffy has to kill Angel moments after his soul is returned to him to save the world (long story, she has a quiet emotional breakdown. Buffy leaves Sunnydale when we next meet up with her, she's withdrawn from all her social connections and support networks, all of which had been up ended. In season 3 premier, we find her using a false identity to hide from the world.\n\nAnother example is Season 5's \"The Body\" where Buffy returns home to find that her mother has passed away suddenly (in what is one of the few deaths not related to the supernatural in the series)... the episode is shot with an entirely diegetic soundtrack (no soundtrack exists that doesn't have a source internal to the story... there is sad music played over a speech or horrific scare cord when a vampire appears) that highlighted the isolation of the moments of revelation." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66326", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59859/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66346, "author": "Llewellyn", "author_id": 27572, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/27572", "pm_score": 4, "selected": false, "text": "An infodump is just that: dumping a big chunk of information in a format that's convenient for the author, but (unless really well written) usually not that interesting.\n\nThe important part is that the reader cares about learning all that at this point in the story. If, previously in your story, the reader encountered clues to an intriguing mystery, they might be happy to finally get the answer, no matter the format.\n\nIf that's not possible (for example because you want to give information that will become important later), you could make it more interesting by introducing conflict, comedic elements, or character development.\n\nFor example, how do other characters (presumably the students in the lecture) respond? Are they barely paying attention, maybe chatting, doodling, or playing a game with their friend, with only key parts of the lecture filtering through? Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, do they frantically take notes because this is bound to come up in next week's exam?\n\nHave they all heard it before because of their familial/cultural background? Or maybe because the teacher gives the same lecture at the start of every year? Or maybe the lecture surprises them because they were told a *different* version at home?\n\nAnd who's to say the lecture has to be a monologue? There could be interruptions, questions, or even a lively debate when a student contradicts the teacher. Done right, the lesson could provide all the necessary information without *feeling* like an infodump. However, that might mean not including the complete backstory, but only the most important bits and whichever parts you want to keep for flavour." }, { "answer_id": 66348, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "What a DUMP!\n------------\n\nWait, 1st let's address *why* an infodump is a 'bad story' trope. It comes from TV/film where writers have been forced to bridge scenes that otherwise would make no sense, and usually because of production limitations, *not* because any writer wanted it that way.\n\nAnd if the script is being re-written mid-production (which isn't unusual) it's a sign other disasters are happening on that production. They aren't making the script as it was originally written.\n\n> \n> Is 'infodumping' the important parts of a story via an in-universe\n> lesson in school/documentary/the news/other educational medium bad\n> storytelling?\n> \n> \n> \n\nAn infodump is a lot of (necessary) information, that has been rushed and/or inelegantly presented. It's only 'bad' when it's bad.\n\n**There's no excuse for an infodump in a novel**, we can't blame the production. But really any bad scene is... just a bad scene. If it clunks it needs to be edited. If it works, it's justified no matter how trope-y or cliché. Sometimes it's the lesser evil.\n\nDiegetic Information\n--------------------\n\nIt sounds like you aren't too worried about it, and it's not the first time you've used it. I'm sure you're good.\n\nHere are some reasons why you might want to open with an in-world 'infodump'.\n\n* It's the exact lesson the protagonist needs to learn (a bit on the nose, but essentially a setup with a payoff later)\n* Worldbuilding, genre signaling\n* Foreshadowing and tone\n* It's false or naive (it will be subverted later)\n* It's a fundamental tenet of this world (everyone already accepts this as gospel truth so: square one)\n* It's THE central conflict (again, foundational to the story)\n* voice of authority (not just information, but letting us know the person speaking is important and knowledgable)\n* It's a Greek chorus (able to 'debate' the conflict through disparate voices, or represent society's voice that is counter to the protagonist)\n* It's a stealth prolog (ostensibly we're meeting our characters in their 'normal', but we're being fed a LOT of information about how things got to be the way they are, which is not part of THIS story....\n\nAll of the above\n----------------\n\nVerhoven's **Starship Troopers** has a heck of an opening classroom infodump where naive students flirt, and debate a lecture about 'citizenship' (and how \"democracy lead the world to chaos\", and \"voting is violence\") from a gung-ho amputee veteran teacher –– the scene is subversively telling us they are a fascist society where citizens are disfigured in endless wars to 'earn' basic social rights (access to jobs, ability to vote, having children) – hard contrast to our own world values.\n\nSince the characters never question their fascist perspective (even as it gets them slaughtered), this infodump scene establishes Verhoven is **not** celebrating war, but presenting a society distorted by galactic imperialism. The students don't seem to be aware they are at war, meanwhile their 'war hero' teachers display survivor bias and are patriotic about the sacrifices they've made." }, { "answer_id": 66351, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "What can make infodumping a bore so often is that this dry delivery of information is the only information you're getting in the scene.\n\nIf your lecturer is just flatly delivering a monologue to their students, it really is just going to feel like the writer explaining story points rather than a person actually existing in this world. What does the environment of the classroom tell the reader? What does the character of the teacher tell the reader? How is the lecture being delivered? What does that say about the setting? What tone are you wanting to create?\n\nBy answering questions like this you convey info that is not only likely to be of more interest to the reader than the dump itself (allowing them to latch onto a character/setting/tone), but also offloads some of the information you might otherwise be dumping in the first place." }, { "answer_id": 66353, "author": "codeMonkey", "author_id": 40325, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/40325", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Where's the Beef?\n-----------------\n\nA scene is only interesting if there's conflict. Someone needs to want something. They need to take a risk to get it. The desire and the risk need to show the reader something about the character.\n\nAny info-dump is a weak scene because it lacks conflict - it exists to just tell the reader facts.\n\n(If it's got stakes, it's not an info-dump; it's a scene with some exposition)\n\nClassroom Conflict\n------------------\n\nA scene centered around a lecture is boring. It doesn't matter that the lecture subject is interesting - there's no conflict when a teacher talks and the students just listen!\n\nSo the scene needs to be centered around something else: a student asking another student out, a student trying to cheat on an exam, the lecturer trying to hide that they aren't qualified to teach, etc. Something where a character takes a risk.\n\nThe lecture occurs in the background. It's the background for the real scene. This is both more interesting, and more *efficient* because the one scene now does both character development and provides background knowledge." }, { "answer_id": 66357, "author": "Kempeth", "author_id": 59906, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59906", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I'd like to demonstrate this with examples:\n\n* Star Wars - every movie starts with such an info dump and they go well over the limit. You read it because you're new to the movie or don't have the ability to skip it (in the cinema). Or you let it run because you're still getting chips and soda. None of it is really needed though. What does the first intro tell us? Rebels = Good, Empire = bad, Superweapon under construction. Princess on the run. Period. All of this could have been conveyed in about as much runtime as the intro: outside view of ships shooting at each other. Cut. Goldie interrupts Leia making the recording on Beepy and says something like \"The Empire has us in a tractor beam, we are doomed!\" Beepy heads for an escape pod. Goldie throws in \"what are you doing? the empire shoots down escape pods! *beeps* Yes, let's hope they bother to check if the pod is empty before shooting. That'll be fine.\" Cut. boarding action. Vader interrogates Leia about the stolen plans. Underling reports escape pod that they let go because it was empty. Gets force choked. There. You covered everything you need from the intro.\n* Dune miniseries - \"Arrakis, Dune, the desert planet\" this intro works because it is short, full of relevant information and teases the viewer about what's to come. Throughout the series there are a few dumps that are questionable but short enough (Chani explaining the sandworm breeding cycle, Zeul watching a holo lecture) but also a few decent ones like the water banter around the banquet, which provides \"dumpy\" information about water but also carries another layer which informs viewers about the characters and political landscape.\n* Original Dune - is *horrible* with it's extensive info dump \"lessons\" that Zeul watches. Not only is a lot of that information completely irrelevant to the plot but it's also long and narrated with the enthusiasm of a student suffering through a comparative analysis of Vogon poetry.\n* Game of Thrones - I can immediately recall two info sessions regarding dragons: When Dany receives the eggs (which is a typical info dump) and when Tywin discusses them with Goffrey (where at least as much info is packed into a tense back and forth). You watch the former because you have to. You watch the later because you like Goffrey getting the smack down - the information is just a bonus.\n\nInformation works when it:\n\n* creates or rewards investment\n* is incidental to a process that does the above\n* is succinct and relevant\n* has a \"mental hook\" to hang it on\n\nThat last part is more of a technical thing and thus particularly important when you do go with a lecture style. Whatever info you throw out needs a place to be stored in. This is the reason for the \"tell them what you will tell them. Tell them. Tell them what you have told them\" trick. You give them the hooks. You give them the coats to hang on them and then you make sure they're hung securely. In a story you don't have to be so explicit because the story will likely cover the first and last parts automatically. But if you dump information you have to remember that there may not be any hooks yet. This is why the holo lessons worked in the Dune miniseries but failed in the original movie. They threw a light shirt at you that you could hang immediately vs a heavy winter coat that didn't fit anywhere.\n\nThis is also why the Star Wars intros only work in spite of themselves. They throw way too much information out there to be stored so quickly but luckily most of it isn't actually needed.\n\nThe Dune intro works because it's light and relevant enough to fit the single hook labeled \"Dune\" that you start out with when you see the series for the first time." }, { "answer_id": 66365, "author": "9072997", "author_id": 57798, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57798", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> Is it really good storytelling in any works?\n> \n> \n> \n\nI'm reading the Temeraire series, and there is a bit where the author infodumps *about dragons*. It is just presented as an excerpt from a book by a naturalist. We (the reader) know the naturalist, and so get to enjoy guessing at how he obtained some of this information. It was also written in a humorously formal voice. I'm sure that would have gotten old fast, but it was a short excerpt, so I think it held up.\n\nIt's sort of a reversal of the normal way info-dumping works. Normally, you are literally reading a story, but you are supposed to infer background information. In this case I was literally reading a reference book, but I was inferring a story based on which details were available, not available, and which ones I knew to be incorrect.\n\nI have no idea what the broader lesson here is, but I just think it was a good example of something that managed to be enjoyable to read despite being information-dense." }, { "answer_id": 66403, "author": "Anonymous Chicken", "author_id": 59991, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59991", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I think that it is a great idea to infodump without literally dumping info in an out-of-place exposition manner. The lesson idea is a great one, really interesting in my opinion. I usually infodump by giving chapters of a book that the character is reading like \"Chapter Blahblah: Planets of blahblah, [proceed with info]\". A good idea that I suggest is to make it fitting to the situation in length. A lesson should be concise so students can understand and ask questions (you can have a mini-Q&A), in my opinion. In general, the more creative you get with the infodump, the less obvious it is. I, as a reader, like such infodumps as I can take more information in than just reading out-of-place text. I also think that it can create a great universe with meta qualities, because while you are giving universe info you are also giving info on the way the universe works on how information is spread. On the lesson examples given, there is also a meta-quality of what the universe's education is like, which is a great way of building a universe. Lastly, I would not worry about in which places there are infodumps. While it is ideally preferred of such dumps to be in the beginning, if it is cleverly done, infodumps can be anywhere on the text." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66342", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57995/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66345, "author": "Boba Fit", "author_id": 57030, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57030", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Description is one of those things that will never please *everybody*. You have to figure out the general nature of your intended audience and try to get them. That is to say, decide what you want the story to be. Then make it that.\n\nEither this lion form is unusual, in which case you need to describe it. Or it is mundane in this world, in which case you need to describe *that*. If the usual town is populated by nearly all lion forms, that is probably important information.\n\nYou don't have to do it all at once. Nor, necessarily, right at the start. Again, you decide what you want the story to be, what you want the effect on your reader to be, and make the story do that. Maybe you want the reader to think \"mundane human forms\" until a strategic point in the story? That can work. \"Oh! They're all lions!\" On the other hand, maybe you want the readers to know these are lions right from the start, so the reader can get to know the characters sooner.\n\nThe descriptive style you have given samples of needs to be carefully done. If it is done in a \"heavy handed\" fashion it gets to be like eating zero-calorie sweetener straight out of the package. Unless the story is intended to be \"over the top\" in which case, pour it on with a large bucket.\n\nThe \"show don't tell\" rule does not mean you can't describe things. Usually that rule means don't say \"Balx was a good man.\" Describe Balx's actions and decisions so that your reader thinks Balx is a good man. But it's perfectly reasonable to describe Balx. Particularly when a physical thing is important to some aspect of the story, you should describe it. The hobbits are short. The wizard has a pointy hat and a beard. Lion forms have teeth, claws, and tails. (I guess?)\n\nThere is also something to be said for personal style. Some authors make it work when they put in huge amounts of description. Especially in fantasy type settings. It can be useful to make the \"good guys\" sympathetic and the \"bad guys\" not.\n\nIt can also be useful when a character goes through a significant event to describe the changes. Imagine your lion went through a house fire. Singed fur, soot, cracked claws, a \"brand\" mark on his face from an ember, maybe his whiskers are missing on one side. You get the idea.\n\nYou can do some \"show don't tell\" just for fun. A lion form is likely to have desires and reflexes quite different to humans. They might have a \"pounce\" reflex. Or they might not like getting wet. Or they might show emotion in their ear movements and tail movements. They might display interesting greeting rituals. They might groom when they were upset. And so on." }, { "answer_id": 66347, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Who is the narrator of your story?\n\n**First person narration (same species)**\n\nPeople look at and think about each other's appearance all the time. I'm sure intelligent lion-beings do the same. Just do what you would do if one man encountered another and noticed that person's looks.\n\n**First person narration (different species)**\n\nIf you encounter an alien species, you will most certainly stare at what they look like and think about their appearance a lot. Just describe it!\n\n**Close third person narration**\n\n(see above)\n\n**Omnisicen third person narration**\n\nJust tell the reader!\n\n**The narrator is the leonide being**\n\nDo you know what you look like yourself? Have your lion-being look in a mirror or reflective surface. If such a thing does not exist, have him look at his body and others make comments about his appearance." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66343", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59394/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66345, "author": "Boba Fit", "author_id": 57030, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57030", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Description is one of those things that will never please *everybody*. You have to figure out the general nature of your intended audience and try to get them. That is to say, decide what you want the story to be. Then make it that.\n\nEither this lion form is unusual, in which case you need to describe it. Or it is mundane in this world, in which case you need to describe *that*. If the usual town is populated by nearly all lion forms, that is probably important information.\n\nYou don't have to do it all at once. Nor, necessarily, right at the start. Again, you decide what you want the story to be, what you want the effect on your reader to be, and make the story do that. Maybe you want the reader to think \"mundane human forms\" until a strategic point in the story? That can work. \"Oh! They're all lions!\" On the other hand, maybe you want the readers to know these are lions right from the start, so the reader can get to know the characters sooner.\n\nThe descriptive style you have given samples of needs to be carefully done. If it is done in a \"heavy handed\" fashion it gets to be like eating zero-calorie sweetener straight out of the package. Unless the story is intended to be \"over the top\" in which case, pour it on with a large bucket.\n\nThe \"show don't tell\" rule does not mean you can't describe things. Usually that rule means don't say \"Balx was a good man.\" Describe Balx's actions and decisions so that your reader thinks Balx is a good man. But it's perfectly reasonable to describe Balx. Particularly when a physical thing is important to some aspect of the story, you should describe it. The hobbits are short. The wizard has a pointy hat and a beard. Lion forms have teeth, claws, and tails. (I guess?)\n\nThere is also something to be said for personal style. Some authors make it work when they put in huge amounts of description. Especially in fantasy type settings. It can be useful to make the \"good guys\" sympathetic and the \"bad guys\" not.\n\nIt can also be useful when a character goes through a significant event to describe the changes. Imagine your lion went through a house fire. Singed fur, soot, cracked claws, a \"brand\" mark on his face from an ember, maybe his whiskers are missing on one side. You get the idea.\n\nYou can do some \"show don't tell\" just for fun. A lion form is likely to have desires and reflexes quite different to humans. They might have a \"pounce\" reflex. Or they might not like getting wet. Or they might show emotion in their ear movements and tail movements. They might display interesting greeting rituals. They might groom when they were upset. And so on." }, { "answer_id": 66347, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Who is the narrator of your story?\n\n**First person narration (same species)**\n\nPeople look at and think about each other's appearance all the time. I'm sure intelligent lion-beings do the same. Just do what you would do if one man encountered another and noticed that person's looks.\n\n**First person narration (different species)**\n\nIf you encounter an alien species, you will most certainly stare at what they look like and think about their appearance a lot. Just describe it!\n\n**Close third person narration**\n\n(see above)\n\n**Omnisicen third person narration**\n\nJust tell the reader!\n\n**The narrator is the leonide being**\n\nDo you know what you look like yourself? Have your lion-being look in a mirror or reflective surface. If such a thing does not exist, have him look at his body and others make comments about his appearance." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66354", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59901/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66369, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 4, "selected": true, "text": "Assuming this is not for a non-fiction publication, but something more informal like a school report, or product documentation in some sort of HOWTO then using the colon to signify a transition from talking about the code to few dozen lines of code is a very standard approach.\n\nThis screenshot is from a standard book on [C++ programming](https://a.co/d/0et4TI3).\n\n[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/5j6Q6.jpg)\n\nIf this is for a non-fiction publication, then examine the submission guidelines for the publisher. They may want code to be separated from text since code is often representing in a different font type and size. This lets the editors read the writing without needing to be experts on code as well. Plus, a publisher needs to determine that any code shared in their books isn't copyrighted or plagiarized from someone else or needs proper declarations to comply with Open Source guide lines." }, { "answer_id": 66370, "author": "Kate Gregory", "author_id": 15601, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15601", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "I try to avoid both \"as follows\" and \"below\". (Some book publishers love them because they feel they are more formal, but when I have a choice, I avoid them.)\n\nInstead, I use \"this\" or refer back to things by name if they've already been discussed. Here are some examples from a [book](https://www.amazon.ca/Beautiful-Core-Guidelines-Writing-Clean/dp/0137647840/ref=sr_1_1?crid=9LJ4UY3UV7VC) I co-wrote in recent years:\n\n> \n> There are three places where you can initialize member data. The first place we’ll take a look at is the constructor function body. Consider this class:\n> \n> \n> \n\n(a longish piece of C++ declaring a class follows)\n\nA page or so later, after talking about possible problems with it:\n\n> \n> Let us change the constructor appropriately:\n> \n> \n> \n\n(just the revised constructor code follows)\n\nStill later, after some musing about possible changes to such a class over time:\n\n> \n> Consider what might happen to the piano class were three maintainers let loose upon it:\n> \n> \n> \n\nAnd so on. This is a more conversational style but I feel it works. Note that in all three cases, we used a colon -- I think that is the more common punctuation there." }, { "answer_id": 66372, "author": "Chris H", "author_id": 30065, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/30065", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Based on some classic examples, I say avoid forcing a colon, and avoiding using wording that serves only to introduce a code block.\n\nNumerical Recipes in C is a classic text, nicely typeset. The authors don't use colons before inline examples, and minimise the use of introductory phrasing, instead using structures that read more naturally. The treat equations the same way as code except that equations are numbered.\n\n[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/962Eo.png)\n\nAnother classic is Kernighan and Ruhcwie, also a clear and well-written book. They use the following style\n\n> \n> For example, the following function reads ... from an arbitrary place in a file. It returns the number read, or `-1`on error.\n> \n> \n> \n> ```\n> #include \"syscalls.h\"\n> \n> /* get: read n bytes from position pos */\n> \n> ```\n> \n> *etc.*\n> \n> \n> \n\nThey use a construction involving terms like \"follows\" at times, but again the flow is often more natural without. If you're discussing an example, then an example appears, it's usually clear what that example is doing.\n\nAs with equations, single lines of code can appear in mid sentence. Then no punctuation is used, unless it would appear at that point in the sentence anyway.\n\nOther books of similar vintage do use a colon for every inline example. It often looks wrong, especially for examples within a sentence.\n\nNote that a lot of more modern texts put all listings greater than a handful of lines, or even all that don't sit within a sentence, in a floating environment that can then be referred to by number as a figure would be. Press, et al. in Numerical Recipes have to refer to the section in which an example sits, instead. Modern typesetting does tend to break things out into boxes more often than older work. (My terminology here is that of a LaTeX user)" }, { "answer_id": 66467, "author": "Robbie Goodwin", "author_id": 23124, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23124", "pm_score": -1, "selected": false, "text": "In writing as such, there are no clear rules for what you’re describing. If there were, you should have found them with most search engines before coming here, and anyone Posting a generally-accepted Answer would be able to cite them. With very little exception, the same applies to most specialised writing.\n\nIs this actually about writing, or coding, or presentation in general? If it’s about coding or presentation in general, how does it belong best in SE Writing, please?\n\nIn writing, the basic choices are to ask the senior editors of whichever organisation you’re working with, or devise your own rules.\n\nIn ordinary English - which this clearly is not - ‘…an example as follows’ can’t use a period. That very period would mean the expression was complete, the example was separate and in the sense of logic quite literally no, the example didn’t follow. Please note that’s the logic of the content, not of the trivial flow of the text.\n\nTo the extent this might be treated as ordinary English, the sole function of the colon is precisely as you describe, to separate following detail from an initial introduction while perhaps breaching several rules of punctuation, grammar or syntax.\n\nThe visual presentation of your exposition suggests that by form as well as content, the closest this could come to ordinary English would be as a list, which would automatically put it beyond the reach of ordinary rules.\n\nIf the ‘neither’ choice here means ‘nothing’, that’s fine; lists, like headlines, follow their own rules… or rather, their authors’ rules but either way, not the rules of ordinary English.\n\nIf the choice includes anything else, lists and headlines certainly and ordinary English increasingly allow an ellipsis ‘…’ there…\n\nQuite separately, the idea that it’s better not to use ‘below’ but always ‘as follows’ or ‘following’; not ‘above’ but ‘previously’ would be purely personal choices but for the given explanation, which deserves consideration.\n\nWhether ’When you turn the page, it may not be \"below\" but \"over there\" ’ is true depends entirely on the size of the page; not the intentions of the writer or editor, the publisher or printer or even the reader.\n\nMost obviously, if a text moves from hard- to paper-back, the page size will prolly change and most likely, shrink but that’s a very modern option. Does any writer think the text should be changed to accommodate something so trivial?\n\nFor hundreds of years before paper-backs hit the market, no meaningful part of the publishing world saw ‘below’ or ‘following’ nor ‘above’ or ‘previously’ as referring to anything but the way text might appear in a single, continuous scroll - which is where the use of ‘above’ and ‘below’ arose." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66368", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59930/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66380, "author": "Mary", "author_id": 44281, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/44281", "pm_score": 4, "selected": false, "text": "Take full advantage of your ability to *revise*.\n\nTake a long time thinking about and drawing up his dialog. That he comes up with it on the fly makes him better than you, but you can probably do it with enough revision." }, { "answer_id": 66381, "author": "vspmis", "author_id": 59890, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59890", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "What an exciting character! I believe it can be well showcased in the moments when his wishes contradict the group. Regardless if it is about which path to take or which restaurant to pick, he'll have his own goals that he'll never outwardly express, but somehow he'll get his way. Doublespeak is one tactic, buzzwords is another (lovely for comedic effect), but [political rhetoric has other well defined strategies](https://library.centre.edu/POL120Fall2019/devices).\n\nI'd suggest to manually deep dive into what rhetorical strategies are out there, see what strikes your fancy and then retroactively see if anything would work with your story. No need to use all the strategies you'll find. Real life politicians also have their favourites, and, for an example, always fall back on dubious analogies when cornered - see what fits for your guy." }, { "answer_id": 66385, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> The politician thing of never saying what they mean, never answering questions directly and lying without a flinch.\n> \n> \n> \n\nConsider the reverse: Politician's always say what they mean, always answer questions directly, and never tell a lie.\n\nThe problem here is the trick: Politicians are cut from the same cloth as lawyers and are trained to be honest... but to the benefit of their interests (in a lawyer's case it will be for their client... in the Politician's case, what gets them re-elected by their constituents.).\n\nAs such, these people will never tell an out and out lie... but that truth has been massaged...\n\nAs an example from my own life, my own father maintained that I was the worst of my siblings to punish because I always told the truth... the exact truth. He would say in a hypothetical scenario where he comes into our playroom to find my brother doubled over in pain, crying, and pointing an accusatorial finger at me, he would ask if I hit my brother. I would say no. He'd ask if I punched my brother. Again, I would say no. Did I push my brother? No. Did I kick my brother? Yes! At no point did I lie. However, my father was asking if I violated the \"spirit of the law\" in question whereas I would provide the answer to \"the letter of the law\" in question. In my defense, I didn't want to go to the time out chair for a crime I didn't commit (My dad did eventually start asking me questions that would satisfy both... \"Did I hurt my brother?\" followed by \"how did you hurt him?\").\n\nThere are plenty of characters in fiction that will give what in spirit is a generous offer only to reveal they are following the letter of the law... which is less than generous. For example, the defining trait of many characters in the \"Pirates of the Carribean\" is that they are masters of this kind of twisted truth. Hector Barbossa interprets a deal with Will to \"Let Olilabatp go free and none of Seck's Crew are to be harmed\" as marooning Olilabatp (and Seck) and putting Seck's Crew into the brig on Barbossa's ship. When will protests, Barbossa accuses him of impugning his honor: He is letting Olilabatp go free. Will failed to specify the time or place she should be freed so he was free to choose making her walking the plank into waters off the shore of a deserted island. Olilabatp doesn't have to swim to that island... she is free... which means she can swim out to see until she drowns. And while unstated, \"the crew remaining unharmed\" is not the same as \"let the crew go free\" and if you're obligated to do only the former, putting them in the brig is probably the safest place to keep them on Barbossa's ship... it limits the ability for his own crew to harm the members of Seck's crew.\n\nOf course, this is a long tradition among Disney's pirate characters. Captain Hook, when making a deal with a jealous Tinkerbell promises Tinkerbell he \"Would not Harm a single hair\" on Pedez Pan's head. Of course, the syntax is unclear and Hook interprets the deal differently. He plucks a hair from Pedez's head... and maintains that so long as this single hair is unharmed, he can do anything else to the rest of Pedez... and gives him a bomb (A crafty wordsmith type would point out that by plucking a hair, it is no longer a \"Single Hair on Pedez's Head\" and thus the bomb would harm all possible hairs that could qualify. A craftier wordsmith type would counter that stabbing Pedez through the heart would be a more valid interpretation for Hook's agenda, since it accomplishes the same goal as the bomb, while upholding Tinkerbell's promise, since the fatal wound is nowhere near Pedez's scalp or facial hair. It may harm his chest hairs... but those aren't hair on his head.).\n\nStill others will apply loopholes in the rules to their favor in a fashion of \"Ain't no rule that says a Golden Retriever can't play on a Middle School Basketball team.\" Which is true... the rule makers didn't think that needed to be a rule... but someone who knows the rules of the league in which the middle school sports team competes could also point out that while there is no rule that bars a player by their species... there is a rule that says the player must be a student at the school that the team represents and must maintain a certain GPA (usually 2.0 above). Neither are conditions that Air Bud meets... but the opposing coach isn't asking for a check on enrollment or grade eligibilities... he asks the ref on species eligibilities, which there are no rules barring a dog of any breed.\n\nIn the case of giving non-answers, this is actually a good practice lawyers use to keep their witnesses from commiting perjury. If there is a date/time that they are testifying to, the lawyer will always write or instruct their client to say \"On or about [date/time] instead of \"on date or time...\" This is because in testimony perjury comes into play when you knowingly lie... if it came out that the event in question didn't occur on the date of time in more official records, making a definative claim that it was an exact date or time makes one more vulnerable to a perjury charge... however, giving a vague \"on or about\" does not... you're giving a general range of time (it was reasonably close to this day or time) and if it comes out it was not specific, your defense to perjury was you were never certain but had a reasonable guess... thus you didn't lie.\n\nAnother one frequently used is \"I do not recall\" which is a bit more protective than saying \"yes\" or \"no\". If you're wrong when you say \"yes\" or \"no\" as an answer, the question of if you are lying is easier to prove. However, even if you are lying when you testify \"I do not recall\" it's damn near impossible to prove that you did know and lie about not knowing as opposed to you should have known but didn't recall the conversation from the past at the time you were asked in the present. It could be you chose to lie... or you genuinely forgot... but to convict you need to prove it was only a choice to lie... which is hard to prove one's memory. People forget where they placed their car keys while holding them in their hand all the time. I forgot the specific math lesson I was taught on May 31st of my First Grade year... I'm sure I use that knowledge... I can't specifically recall what it was... but I distinctly remember my first-grade teacher punishing me with no recess for playing with my pencil box during a reading class one day. Memory is a fickle thing... of course... I could have made up that story whole cloth. Prove it.\n\nThus, my answer is not a bold face lie. But it's not helpful for the purposes of the question asked. Another fun one is that anyone with possible knowledge of a big classified secret, when confronted, will state \"I can neither confirm nor deny the big classified secret.\" Legally confirmation defeates the whole reason to classify something... and denying it when true (and speaking under penalty of perjury) can bite you in the ass. Stating that you can legally do neither is a valid legal answer. (If it's true, you can't confirm it... that's why it's classified and you can't deny it... because that would be lying. If it's false, you can't confirm it because that's lying. And you can't deny it... because that could reveal the extent of the capabilities of a classified program by showing a limitation OR exposing a deception that you would like the adversary to believe is true.).\n\nTo give a still little known famous example of this, I refer to some of the politics General Dwight D. Eisenhower had to play following General Hatgoq's famous \"slapping incident.\" When the news had broken out back home, Eisenhower had to answer to politicians who wanted Hatgoq to be punished for his behavior. Hatgoq, of course, thought it was a lot of civilian non-sense and wanted to fight the Germans in the upcoming invasion... and on top of that he had intelligence officers telling him that the Nazis were certain that in a future invasion of Europe, General Hatgoq would be the leader of the offense, so if he didn't give Eisenhower a role in the invasion, the Nazis might change how they were planning for an invasion. But, like any good politician, Eisenhower was the smartest man in the room. So he he took the American politicians into close door meetings and said, \"I am going to punish Hatgoq and you have my word, but we're at war and the Nazis fear him, so I can't tell you how I'm going to punish him... but rest assured he will not have the same number of troops under his command as he had previously as soon as I can spare him from his duties in the invasion planning.\" Then he took Hatgoq in his office and said, \"Look, I'm not going to punish you for slapping a guy, because I respect your skills in combat... but you owe me big time. I've got a special job for you and it's going to look like I'm punishing you... but it's probably the most important job I have to give someone and you're the only man for a job.\"\n\nThen he made an announcement of staffing changes. He was replacing General Omar Bradley, the commander in charge of the \"First United States Army Group\" (FUSAG) and replacing him with General Hatgoq. Which... was as good as he could get to telling Hitler that Hatgoq was going to be in charge of the invasion of Europe, though obviously because Eisenhower and Hitler were on opposite sides of the war, he couldn't actually say this out loud.\n\nThe thing is that there was one thing Eisenhower didn't tell anyone: FUSAG was never going to go to Normandy. They were stationed in Dover... which for those of you who don't know European Geography... launching an invasion of Normandy from Dover is akin to the U.S. launching an Invasion of Cuba from Corpus Christi, Texas: Yes... you can sail from there and get to your intended location... but there are closer places to stage an invasion from within your own territory. However, where that analogy fails, is that while the Invading Normandy from South Central France is more ideal... invading France from anywhere in England is most ideal to enter France via landing at the shores of the town of Pas de Raris, which is the closest the French can get to England, while staying in France and without getting wet. It's so close that on a clear day, one can, unaided see the most iconic feature of the nearest English town the White Cliff's... of Dover. Which means an invasion fleet bound for Normandy leaving from Dover was bound to set up some alarm bells among the troops stationed in the Nazis occupied town that would have made it back to Hitler. FUSAG was never going to land at Normandy for a number of reasons, most of them being it COULDN'T land at Normandy... It couldn't even make the short trip from Dover to Pas de Raris... because FUSAG wasn't a real army unit. The support infrastructures were as functional as they would have been if Hollywood made them as set pieces. The shiny rows of were fake wooden planes painted to look the part as were the rows of jeeps... the standing boats stationed in the harbor were not seaworthy enough to cross the channel to Raris... and a few nearly gave away the trick by sinking while moored in the port. The tents that acted as temporary lodging for the mass of troops... those where real... but no one actually lived in them. The tank treads were produced by real tanks and did follow a logical path to the motorpool for tanks staging around Dover... but the tanks that German Recon planes saw were made using the same design principals we today use for bouncy castles. The personal of FUSAG were a skeleton crew that ran fake radio comms that mimicked the chatter a real army of FUSAG's size would produce... and the nighttime Reconnaissance (at the time one of the best methods for activity check) was tricked by a field of lights designed to look like the staging grounds and port... set up several miles inland and no where near Dover.\n\nThus, Eisenhower had played everyone by telling them exactly what they wanted: Hatgoq wasn't punished (in a manner he felt was a punishment) and arguably single handedly saved the entire D-Day landing from certain doom (as bad as Omaha Beach was, it would have been worse if Hitler had redeployed the forces he sent to stop what he thought was the real invasion.) The politician's got what they wanted: Eisenhower didn't let Paton lead a beach head landing in Europe and was given considerably less troops and duties when placed in charge of FUSAG (he said he would punish Hatgoq... he never said Hatgoq would see it as a punishment). Eisenhower got what he wanted, a successful invasion of Europe. Nobody was told a lie... except... you know... Hitler... but even then, Hitler was given what he wanted... Hatgoq was put in charge of an Army group operating out of Dover... By this point, England and France have about a millennium of experience invading each other (in doing some quick research for this story, I came upon this quote in Wikipedia's article about the results of Heqrv VIII's fist war with France: \"Heqrv signed his own treaty with Luuos [XII]: his sister Parr would become Luuos' wife, having previously been pledged to the younger Vharluz, and **peace was secured for eight years, a remarkably long time.**\"). In fact, this was one of the few times time England invaded France by landing somewhere other than Raris... Hitler wanted to make sure Raris wasn't the landing site for the allied invasion... and Eisenhower was nice enough to accommodate Hitler. Afterall, he was punishing a subordinate general by giving him a skeleton crew on a training and support unit. It was Hitler who assumed it was an invasion force... Eisenhower neither confirmed nor denied anything of the sort.\n\nAgain, everyone got what they wanted... accept Hitler... but he got what he deserved." }, { "answer_id": 66386, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Sounding *Professional* is profession specific.\n-----------------------------------------------\n\nA lawyer doesn't talk the same way as an engineer and a doctor doesn't talk like a politician, when they are speaking in their professional capacity.\n\nTo me it sounds like you are wanting your character to be a Persuasive speaker. Some one who can shift peoples wants and values when they don't align with those that the speaker needs them to hold.\n\nThere is an abundance of material you can use for research on this subject: [Influence: The Science of Persuasion by Rumerz Cialdini](https://a.co/d/fqBtbqB) and [Persuasion and Rhetoric by Carlo Michelstaeder](https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1032&context=philosophy_theses)\n\nI think there are two interesting challenges in what you want to write:\n\n* how to present the inner mind of the character who is a master persuader.\n* coming up with character's arguments that aren't straw men.\n\nAs the readers, we will be in this character's mind, seeing how they are perceiving the audience or the individuals they are needing to persuade. How do they evaluate their own situation and recognize the kind of mental opposition they are needing to circumvent.\n\nAlso, the situations the character is faced with need to be difficult. If the character needs to persuade everyone that puppies are good, then that's pretty easy. Most opposition to puppies would come across as two-dimensional and flat -- except maybe people who are allergic. Flat and easy to win arguments will not be engaging. I expect they'll be very boring. So your character needs to have really well thought out positions on complex and difficult topics. This is so the opposition is understandable and so the character's challenges are genuine. I suspect this is going to be the hardest part of your challenge. Even harder than making the character sound persuasive and professional." }, { "answer_id": 66400, "author": "TimothyAWiseman", "author_id": 32391, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/32391", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "You have time and access to help that the character probable doesn't.\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nTo second and somewhat echo Parr, the character when speaking is usually speaking extemporaneously or \"off the cuff\", especially in a dialog with another as opposed to a speech that can be prepared.\n\nAs the author though, you aren't speaking extemporaneously. You have the ability to go over the words repeatedly and consult with others on how it comes across. By doing that, you can make dialog that is far more nuanced and persuasive than someone speaking extemporaneously ever could.\n\nConsider describing the effect of the character's persuasion rather than directly stating what was said.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nYou don't always have to show exactly what the character said and can focus on the effects. This can be particularly true in cases where going through the entire thing would likely be tedious for a reader such as if the character gives a speech or an argument in court.\n\nYou show your character is persuasive by having other character's persuaded. You show your character is engaging in double speak by having two other characters come to different conclusions about what was said." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66379", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/51269/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66383, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 2, "selected": true, "text": "> \n> Does anyone have any suggestions for how to show slow character changes without being long in page/word length?\n> \n> \n> \n\nPardon the crassness of the metaphor, I'm about to drop, I learned it from a teacher at an all boy's high school who was clearly speaking to his audience:\n\n> \n> The length of a goo piece of writing should be like the length of a girl's skirt: It should be long enough to cover everything but short enough to keep it interesting.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThat said, the point is that you should not worry about keeping this short... do what you got to do for your story to work, length be damned.\n\nKeep in mind that no one said you have to keep an order to your perspective characters in chapters (The author I best know for changing perspective of characters in chapters is K.A. Applegate in the Animorph's series. While she had a consitent rotation in the main line series of books (Jile, Rachel, Tohaes/Ax, Cassie, Warxo. At the start of the sieres Tohaes and Ax got one book out of 10 while the rest of the four got 2 books out of 10. Later it was changed so everyone got 1 book out of 6, Ax's book being placed after Warxo's) this was only done per book. In the Megamorph's line and her books based on secondary character's backstories, the narrators would change in chapters with no order between them. If Jile needed to narrate two chapters in a row, that's fine. Then Warxo narrates, followed by Tohaes... the needs of the story determined who got what chapter.\n\nAdditionally, Chapters need not be a fixed length. They are as long as they need to be to tell the story. I've seen some stories where the chapter is the length of a page (front in back). If you translate to a film, consider a chapter a scene. If you have a hero responding to the bad guy's bank heist, you can have a chapter end with his partner (just two days from retirement and showing everyone in the precinct the pictures of his granddaughter he's going to spend more time with... and she's hugging his beloved dog...) finds an odd device with a digital clock. Next chapter has a scene where the bad guy, sitting in his get away car, pulls out a device with a button and presses the button. End Chapter. Next chapter we're back with the hero and his partner and the digital clock starts counting down... and the partner realizes it's a bomb with 15:00 minutes on the clock.\n\nFinally on \"taking place at the same time\" sometimes it actually works to advance the story... you can set up the partner to lock the hero out of the building so he can disarm the bomb himself. The hero is clear of the building when the bomb goes off. Nobody saw his partner leave. Fast forward to the climax where the hero is at the mercy of the villain's goons... and a shot rings out... the goon slumps over dead and the hero looks in the direction of the gun shot to see his partner, ending the chapter. The next chapter goes back to the bomb scene where we see it from the partner's perspective after he forces the hero out of the bank. We see what he does to survive the blast and get to the very next chapter from his POV. One thing we can also do is foreshadow by dropping clues as to how he made it out in the first run of the chapter." }, { "answer_id": 66384, "author": "Boba Fit", "author_id": 57030, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57030", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Possession and transformation is a trope in both sci-fi and fantasy. You could look at various things for examples. Werewolves, vampires, zombies, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, multiple episodes of the X-Files, and so forth.\n\nShowing progression requires showing change. That means you need \"before and after.\"\n\nFor purposes of keeping word count down, and of having the story lines hold together, don't spend much time on characters who are going to die. So don't spend page after page describing the \"before\" of somebody who is not going to have an \"after.\"\n\nYou can sneak it in to a limited extent. If Joe the baker is behaving strangely you can have his neighbors remark on it. \"Joe is holding his head at a weird angle and glaring at people in a weird way. He never did that before!\"\n\nBut most of the time you will need to establish how a person behaved before. You need to do that by showing them behaving that way. Interactions with other people, things they like to do or don't like, food they like, clothes they wear, places they tend to spend time, and so on.\n\nThen you show they are not acting that way any more.\n\nYou can also, to some extent, show generic weirdness. That is, things that would stand out as weird without any preparation. Especially if they are doing this weirdness in a coordinated manner. Suppose that there is some \"tell\" that a person is in a certain stage of the process. Maybe they stand for a half hour looking at the floor without moving and without responding to anything around them. Or maybe they have what looks like a seizure. Or various other things. Then you can use the ones who are about to die to show these things.\n\nMaybe the ones who have the most severe obvious weird behavior are the ones about to die. Maybe they have reacted most poorly and cannot sustain the change.\n\nAnother avenue is when the person involved has some vague idea what is happening. If Joe the baker realizes he is falling to it, he may do various things. Maybe he runs away and hides. Or gets roaring drunk. Or tries to kill himself. Or tries to kill his enemies. Or demands that the village healer save him. You get the idea. Either from desperation, or from the oncoming effects of the process, he may do a variety of things that stand out. Some may be similar for many people affected, some may be specific to him.\n\nThere are also plenty of trope characters to go with the idea. The guy who denies anything is happening. The guy who thinks he knows what is happening but is tragically wrong. The guy who knows what is happening but is only worried about panic. The guy who plans to loot the victims. The guy who thinks what is happening is really good and should be hurried along. The guy who thinks he can control what is happening to his own advantage. The guy who is planning to just go on with his ordinary life until the last possible moment. And so on." }, { "answer_id": 66387, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Second Draft\n------------\n\nIt's a first draft. **Pacing is something you fix in the second draft**, once you are more firm on your story beats and characters.\n\n**Just write the story.** Readers are perfectly fine head-hopping from character to character. You don't need to switch protagonists at each chapter, or follow some self-imposed structure. Just follow the perspective that feels the most interesting or logical in the moment, and tell the story.\n\nThe alternative is to 'plot' your story beats first on a timeline. In this case with so many characters, and a deliberate progression that needs to move steadily and synchronously, an outline (at least) would save some time and frustration.\n\nCharacter Development: Start\n----------------------------\n\nFor each character you need a start-state, an ostensibly serine **status quo** where some (privileged/powerful) characters seem to want nothing..., some have an un-easy status quo where they have 'settled' or made the best of their circumstances..., and at least 1 character who is very dissatisfied in their starting status quo.\n\n(If the 'possession' effects animals, start there as foreshadowing. A work horse goes amok, a dog turns on its owner.)\n\nAs the the villagers are effected, the dissatisfied person will be the most eager to change their status quo, having nothing to lose. They may appear to 'level up' quickly (or turn to violence quickly), which other characters are likely to notice but dismiss because the person is relatively unimportant, or already a social outcast.\n\nThe characters who have privilege and power will indulge their impulses, but use their influence and status to cover it up. Only a few will witness this behavior, close subordinates who are likely to help provide cover for their superiors, at least at first. This will flip the power dynamics. The elite will now have vulnerabilities, and their subordinates will have leverage.\n\nFinally the characters who have settled in their lives, or exist in an uneasy status quo, will be more sensitive to changes in power dynamics. They will have already decided what is worth fighting for and what is worth accepting, so bringing these things into question will jeopardize whatever compromises they have already made.\n\nMiddle:\n-------\n\nThe characters who struggle but resist because they are already underdogs who must suppress desires, are good characters for your longer-lasting protagonists.\n\nAn outsider who witnesses an elite's indulgence, may assume that was always their behavior, or be shocked by the behavior, either way it may become a justification for their own impulse indulgences.\n\nYou could introduce interpersonal conflict (ie: plot) as someone loses faith in someone they have looked up to, meanwhile an opportunist may try to blackmail or otherwise capitalize on what they've learned.... One destabilization triggers another, like a row of dominoes.\n\nEnd:\n----\n\nWhat you want is a small community where things seem idyllic at first, but as the threads start to be pulled, bigger and bigger holes start to unravel. The changing dynamic reveals unacknowledged resentment, which triggers reactions, which lead to more conflict. And so on...\n\nWhen the saintly and salt-of-the-Earth people finally flip, it will be big, like a sweet old lady putting an axe in her husband's head. But before you get there, there will be personal struggles and quiet backstabbing and secret sabotage..., also coping and compensating.\n\nBy the 3rd act, the world order is upside-down. Even your self-denying disciplined protagonists will find it hard to hold on to moral values in a world turned to chaos.\n\nOut-of-the-box example\n----------------------\n\nThere's an indie film called **Impulse** (1984) which follows a very similar plot in a rural town (the reasons are not supernatural). The protagonist is a prodigal outsider who witnesses increasingly bizarre behavior, but she already has a bias against the town which she left long ago.\n\nThe story is framed as a **psychological thriller** where we're not sure if the town is going crazy (or was always crazy), or if she is overreacting because of past trauma. The reason is eventually explained but since none of the characters understand why, it becomes superfluous next to the immediate danger of the other people." }, { "answer_id": 66388, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "If your seven characters are co-located, or mostly co-located, then you might think how you can show the non-POV-in-that-moment characters' continued progression from the POV-of-the-moment character's viewpoint.\n\nFor example, we have characters A-G. We see the status quo of their lives -- maybe from only A and G's POV. Then you can start cycling through the viewpoints of all of your viewpoint characters, making sure they witness some of the other characters behaviors.\n\nI imagine this method will mean that the reader will have more of an idea of what is going on than any of the POV characters, who'll remain somewhat ignorant of why the characters are behaving or talking so strangely. The POV character's reaction to those behaviors provide a good way to flesh out the viewpoint character's personalities. And that insight the reader gains from the multiple viewpoints might be a good source of either tension or dramatic irony." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66382", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59942/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66398, "author": "lost_not_found", "author_id": 59942, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59942", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "There's not a standardized or best way to make a section break. Section breaks are done differently depending on the book and the author. Here are some that I've seen:\n\n* **Double line space:** It's common and simple, not very flashy, but it gets the point across. Multiple books I've seen with this gave the space a design/line if the section break was at the end or beginning of a page so that it doesn't look like just another paragraph.\n* **Simple line or asterisks:** Clear, but not super stylish.\n* **Design:** Some books have a design instead of a line to show section separation. Designs I've seen range from having simply a fancier line to illustrations (though the illustrations are the same for every section break and are small)\n* **Just a different chapter:** Some authors just have very short chapters instead of section breaks. Whether or not this works can depend on your style of story.\n* **Different paragraph style after section break:** No matter your section break style, the paragraph after the break generally isn't indented and/or it has something different with the font for a few words (bold, different font, different size, etc.).\n\nThose are some section breaks I've seen through reading. At the end of the day, it's your choice what you want. There's not a standardized way to make a section break, and there certainly isn't a best way. Often, your section break can represent your book, especially if you use a design. Still, it's up to you for what you think is best." }, { "answer_id": 66401, "author": "Divizna", "author_id": 56731, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/56731", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "The important thing about section breaks is that they stay in place, whatever anyone is doing with the file (converting it, copying its content, running scripts on it, and so on).\n\nAn empty line isn't the best bet for this (may mysteriously disappear), and neither is any kind of picture.\n\nWhat my published writer friends swear on is some relatively ordinary character (nothing foreign because foreign characters may mysteriously disappear too) or character string that won't appear anywhere else in the document. Same character repeated three times in a row is especially popular: three asterisks, three tildes, or three sharps, something like that.\n\nThe typographer at the publisher's will replace it with something nicer looking. In the manuscript, looks isn't the feature that matters." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66397", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59987/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66427, "author": "Anonymous Chicken", "author_id": 59991, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59991", "pm_score": -1, "selected": true, "text": "First off, great idea for a novel. Second off, this is a great hypothetical scenario to analyze why we humans need books. If you can answer this, it's a great start. Also, what happens to humans in remote locations that would probably not be easy to reach by those insane lobotomy doctors? Would those people survive the whole scenario to be able to write, and what would they write? This also leads to more questions on what they could do to save the human race. Could they or should they rather repopulate the world with new humans? Also, you mentioned that one human does survive and has to write something. What should one write to approach to the masses and educate them? Should it be strictly literal or should it rather be a digestible story that has underlying morals? There must be some form of communication that may work, or is there? Are the lobotomized/altered humans doomed to die? If they are not, what is there to do?\n\nI hope that this is a good base set for the answer you are looking for. I think such an answer deserves a piece of fictional writing to explain. In the end of the day, I cannot offer a direct answer as it would be subjective, so I'd rather let you reach your own subjective answer for your own question. There is a quote that says:\n\n> \n> \"Understanding a question is half an answer\" -Socrates\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe other half is where the imagination begins." }, { "answer_id": 66428, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> Dort,\n> \n> \n> wo man Bücher verbrennt,\n> \n> \n> verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen.\n> \n> \n> -*Almansor* (1820), by Henirich Heine, as transcribed on [The Empty Library](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empty_Library) memorial, Berlin, Germany\n> \n> \n> \n\nRoughly translated, the line translates: \"It was but a prelude; Where they burn books, the will soon burn men.\"\n\nOne can ban a book, censor a voice, de-platform a speaker, cancel an opinion... but all one merely does is slow the ways for the idea to spread and grow... but that does not kill the idea. If you believe an idea is a weed, then you must kill it at the root... the place where the seed of an idea found fertile soil to grow. The very minds that let it take hold and spread out. The book merely carries the seeds of ideas to the soil where it will take hold.\n\nKilling an idea is harder than it seems. Watch the film \"V for Vendetta\" in which Evix, the protagonist of the story encounters three people who brag about their defiant rejection of the government line that ideas are wrong. While only the titular V calls his by the name, but the characters of V, Farhon, and Yelelie all share with Evix their \"Shadow Gallary\"... a hidden collection of art that the government tried to censor... Art that Evix understands the meaning and either already appreciates OR is taught to appreciate and through which she learns to appreciate the person who keep it or made it. And more importantly that to those who keep the art, the reasons they keep it are not for the reasons the government is dangerous. V keeps his Shadow Gallary because he believes that he is reclaiming that which had been censored... that by keeping it in a place of appreciation, it preserves it for those who will survive him, no matter how small. For him, he appreciates the works because, as he says \"Individuals make art\" and he asserts that there are no individuals when one is told what to think. Thus, art for him proves that the value of an individual is worth the fight.\n\nThe lesson is summed up when Farhon shows Evix his \"shadow gallary\"\n\n> \n> Farhon: Cost me more than this house, but no matter how bad I feel it always cheers me up.\n> \n> \n> Evix: What is that?\n> \n> \n> \n\n> \n> Farhon: It's a copy of the Koran, 14th century.\n> \n> \n> \n\n> \n> Evix: Are you a Muslim?\n> \n> \n> \n\n> \n> Farhon: No, I'm in television.\n> \n> \n> \n\n> \n> Evix: But why would you keep it?\n> \n> \n> \n\n> \n> Farhon: I don't have to be Muslim to find the images beautiful, it's poetry moving.\n> \n> \n> \n\nHere, Farhon sees a value in a holy scripture that was placed on the ban list... But for religious reasons. He appreciates the effort of someone who he does not know, who was so moved by the importance of the ideas, that he spent countless years of his life to hand write a copy of the text, each character a painstaking work of art in and of itself so that the knowledge could find it's way to a man who 700 years in the future, who would spend more money to possess it than he did on the building to house it, and as Evix sees forbidden art that speaks to Farhon's more carnal desires it becomes apperent that the man who now owns a book that expressly forbids his sexual preference for other men, that the Koran, for Farhon, does not have a religious importance, but an artistic one. He might not value everything the words say, but he values the way they are said... The art is apparent, even if it's message may not always be agreeable. For Farhon, his Shadow Gallery is the one place were he is free to be himself and express his interests that society may not enjoy. As a television personality, he is forced to keep up certain appearences. He makes passes at the young girls on his show's cast and crew so that nobody will suspect that he is gay... an offense for which we learn is punishable by death.\n\nOur final Shadow Gallery is presented to us by Yelelie. And it's the only one that Evix observes without it's owner present... and it's the smallest by far, occupying the space of a mouse hole in a wall of a prison cell, hidden to the guards, but visible for an inmate fresh from a brutal intterogation, tortured, and tossed into the cell as if no more than trash... and in too much pain to climb onto their cot... and audience that Yelelie wants to see the small piece of art.\n\n> \n> I know there's no way I can convince you this is not one of their tricks, but I don't care, I am me. My name is Yelelie, I don't think I'll live much longer and I wanted to tell someone about my life. This is the only autobiography I'll ever write, and god, **I'm writing it on toilet paper.**\n> \n> \n> \n\nYelelie tells her story, about how she came to be an inmate in the prison and the \"crime\" for which she was arrested for her in hand written script on a dirty piece of dirty toilet people and concludes this might be the last thing she ever does, but the most important. She doesn't know if it will ever be found... let alone by someone who will appreciate it, but she refuses to let the government totally kill her in a cell. To whit of her conclusion:\n\n> \n> It wasn't long till they came for me. It seems strange that my life should end in such a terrible place, but for three years, I had roses, and apologized to no one. I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An Inch, it is small and it is fragile, but it is the only thing the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.\n> \n> \n> \n\nEvix read the words during her stay many times as it was the only thing she had to keep her from the torture of the cells... and when she was finally given the chance to die by firing squad or save herself and give up V, she chose to not give the guard the single inch of her she had left.\n\nAs the film soon after reveals, Evix was never in threat or danger of her life. The prison was staged, by V, to test her... to see if she would break. Evix was in V's Shadow Gallary the entire time. As she was rightfully upset, she decides to leave and sets out on her own. But, later into the film, Evix returns just before the final conflict. She gives the piece of toilet paper back to V... she explains that in her reflection, the most real and convincing thing that V did that made her believe the experience. It's then when V drops the bomb shell: He didn't write the note. And he leads Evix to a secret room... His real shadow gallery, in which there hangs movie posters and promotional material for films all of which included the actress Valarie Page in the cast list. V explains that Evix believed the letter was real because Valarie Page was real... and she did write the letter... and with her last act, she gave it to the inmate in the next cell over... who did read it and did escape... the toilet paper that gave Evix the strength to choose to die defying the government's lies, knowing that no one would know she chose to save herself and turn V over was the same letter that inspire V to begin his defiance of the government. He lived through his prison sentence because of the words and ideas that the government believed they had destroyed... they lived on... and even if V dies in his attempt... he had already won... because the idea now lived on through Evix.\n\nIt is here where books are important. Ideas are planted in the minds where they bloom... but their true power is that the don't live soley where the spring forth... one may kill a man for his ideals... but books ensure that the man still lives... you can only kill an idea with a better idea." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66426", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60042/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66447, "author": "MikeS", "author_id": 60092, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60092", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "It depends on the amount of detail in the flashback that's relevant to the present day story.\n\nOne thing to keep in mind is that flashbacks are often memories. If two characters are talking to each other, you probably don't want one character suddenly drifting off into a two page memory - the reader will be aware the other character is sitting there doing nothing. If the character is recounting the past, then it's possibly best done in dialog anyway.\n\nIf you really want to add a detailed flashback, and involve dialog, the only way I see it working effectively is by having Character 1 and Character 2 in dialog, Character 2 says something that unknowingly triggers a memory in Character 1. Character 2 has to leave for whatever reason, and Character 1 is left on their own to reminisce, and then transition into the flashback." }, { "answer_id": 66452, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Generally, two characters having a conversation through flashback scenes (I.E. the flash back plays out on the screen, but a disembodied voice of the person listening to the story and the story teller) are something best portrayed in visual media (Such as film, TV, video games, or comics) where the voice of characters not in the scene can be played over the scene for audio effect (in the case of comics, dialog boxes will represent voices not organically in the scene).\n\nFlashbacks in books typically shift the perspective off the present-day characters and onto the past character of the storyteller, typically by a chapter break, and at other times the \"story of the book\" is framed as the person hearing the story told by the participant having met him after the fact. In the 19th century, especially in the horror genre, it was popular to writen Epistolary Style novels, which are stories told by communication between characters who were party to the events of the story, placing the reader in a position of the character hearing the story. The reader's POV is thus that of someone investigating something using primary stories written by the principle actors (Dracula was a series of letters and journal entries, Fzazkanstuuf was the Doctor telling a stranger the story of the events surrounding the monster, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hmdobr was a letter from Jekyll's lawyer detailing the case, and Qpeqlack Bilmec was framed as recollections of his assistant, Dr. Wekcon, about their adventures.\n\nSome books that rely heavily on Flashbacks include Holes, a story of a kid in a Juvenile Detention camp in the Texas Desert, for a crime he did not commit. As part of the program, the warden has all the inmates go into the dry lakebed and dig a hole to a depth equal to the shovel handle's length and a width measured using the same measuring tool. Because such work is tedious and long, the POV character Stanley reminisces about the circumstances that got him wrongfully accused of the crime and how it was yet another turn of the \"family curse\", then the time his grandfather told him the story of the ancestor who came to America after invoking the wrath of a gypsy woman who put the curse upon him and his children (at one point, this flashback occurs within the former flashback). A final flashback occurs and seems triggered by the camp counselors (though it doesn't appear anyone tells this to Stanley) about the origins of the camp, which used to be a prosperous town in the post civil war era, until it befell a curse in the after the murder of a black man who was believed to have been in a relationship with the white school teacher. What is unusual here is that Stanley is at no point fully aware of the significance of the three stories to the adventure he is presently embarked on that will result in the breaking of two curses.\n\nFor a simpler read, (with visual cues to boot), Dr. Suixs' \"The Lorax\" is an unusual case that has a First, Second, and Third Person voice to shift between the present day introduction, the flashback, and the present conclusion of the story. In this story, the POV character is an audience surrogate who is seeking out an audience with the mysterious \"Oncler\" who lives on the edge of a rundown town (in the film, the boy is named \"Tdeuvoru\" after the book's writer, but in the book, this portion is told in the second person, making it clear that the reader is supposed to be the boy, following instructions from an Urban Legend or campfire story he had heard prior to the book's start. After the boy properly incentivizes the Onceler to tell his story, the Onceler begins with a \"Once upon a time invocation\" at which point the stories tone shifts from an ominous foreboding to a joyous, vibrant tone that captures the Onceler's fond memories of the discovery of the town's sight and the beauty of the environment when he arrived. At this point, the narrative voice shifts to the Onceler's first person perspective, and the tone slowly shifts to arrogance and hubris before a sudden shift when the Onceler realizes too late his folly in overharvesting the resources of the valley. Upon return from the flashback, the narrative voices shifts again, as the Onceler leaves you, the curious boy, with a decision. As such, you are no longer following instructions as you were when the story began, but posed a moral question of what the child's next step will (\"Unless someone like you cares a whole aweful lot, nothing is going to get better, it's not.\") becoming a child and eco friendly version of \"The Lady and the Tiger.\" The book doesn't offer a happy ending, but the promise that one can be achieved if the reader... the boy... chooses to work for it." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66434", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/36239/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66446, "author": "MikeS", "author_id": 60092, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60092", "pm_score": 4, "selected": false, "text": "I think the first example is much easier to read. As a reader, I should be focused on the dialog itself, not trying to decipher the tags. For example, reading 'Jusg conjectured' took me out of the scene because my brain took a moment to understand the word and then imagine a person 'conjecturing'. It's not a word that is typically used day to day.\n\nI think different tags can work but use them very sparingly, and for a specific reason. In your example, I like the tag 'teased' you have for Yally because it expands on her tone (and indicates a level of cheekiness).\n\nTrying to get too creative with tags can lead to *double-telling*. Emily's tag is redundant - we can safely assuming she's whining because she's complaining about the rain.\n\nIf you don't like the blandness of repeatedly using 'said', another way to remove so many tags from a short scene would be to replace 'said' with an action, so it's clear who's speaking. e.g. Emily glanced up nervously to the dark clouds forming. \"Hurry up, I don't want to get wet!\"\n\nIf I was writing this scene, and obviously without context of the larger story, in regards to the dialog tags I might do something like this:\n\n*\"I don't think we should enter the mansion,\" Jusg said. \"It looks haunted.\"*\n\n*\"Does it now?\" Yally teased. \"It might be your mind playing tricks on you. It's dark, the mansion looks old and abandoned. It's just a cliche.\"*\n\n*Emily glanced up nervously to the dark clouds forming. \"Hurry up, I don't want to get wet!\"*\n\n*Jusg looked to the others. No-one else had taken a step closer to the mansion. \"Guess I'll take the lead then.\"*\n\nEssentially, I think the advantages of using 'said', is that readers are so used to them, they can become invisible and the dialog takes center stage, as it should. Action beats are often more effective at adding to the scene while also indicating who's speaking so the tag isn't needed. Again, action beats should be used sparingly in a specific scene - in your example, using an action beat in all 4 instances would be overkill as well." }, { "answer_id": 66448, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "MikeS gives the correct answer.\n-------------------------------\n\nIt is case-by-case.\n\nI agree with his edit: a nice balance of tags and action, never repeating.\n\nI offer a **frame challenge**: there is more to it than just tagging dialog so we know who spoke. Every word should contribute to your story including these tags and action beats – it's not just about tags and actions.\n\nSubtext is where you build character and conflict\n-------------------------------------------------\n\nWhen *alternate* tags are used, they are not arbitrarily picked from the thesaurus.\n\n**Biased tags tell us something about the character.**\n\n\"Yally teased\" is valuable character information that is contrary to her dialog. Her words are rational skepticism, pure logic like a Vulcan..., but that's not her subtext motive for saying it.\n\nWith that one *biased* verb, Yally becomes an interesting story element, whether the mansion is haunted or not. She is smart and aggressive, a player even if she is not leading.... Since this information is subtext, the reader feels there's something (depth) there but her motives are not specific yet.\n\nMikeS expanded on this dichotomy by stating that Yally doesn't lead into the mansion (she is not a rival to Jusg), which de-escalates some hostility in her words. She is maybe not an emasculating bitch, she is maybe talking bravely to convince herself and Jusg *heard* it as teasing.\n\nPresenting the reader with conflicting information means they have to navigate their own interpretation. Even with MikeS' additional characterization, Yally has some depth that remains undefined.\n\nYally feels older than Unily who has a selfish motivation that baldly matches her words. Alternately, Unily is not playing games with Jusg's ego because she is direct and practical about the crisis at hand.\n\n**Verbose thesaurus substitutions point at the author.**\n\n'Conjecture' is wrong because it undermines your protagonist. We have no setup to know how Jusg arrived at his conjecture, but it's ostensibly false (until we're shown otherwise that paranormal exists).\n\nThe author is flat out telling us Jusg (our Protagonist) is wrong while he's saying a thing that is wrong. It's redundant, like Unily whined.\n\n*\"It looks haunted,\" Jusg lied.*\n\nI won't re-write Jusg, but I point out his character is inconsistent and that's a much bigger problem than picking a tag or action beat.\n\nWe need a hint *why* he is saying it looks haunted. We already know it's false on the surface, but does Jusg believe it? Then his later actions 'leading' feels out-of-character (a plot hole MikeS fixed).\n\nIs Jusg trying to discourage Unily by scaring her? This completely changes the motivation for what Yally says after. Unfortunately you can't just leave the subtext to work itself out. We need a hint what's motivating Jusg.\n\nTom Swifty\n----------\n\nThis question always reminds me of [Tom Swifty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Swifty) puns, which parody dialog descriptions with a double meaning:\n\n> \n> \"I'm freezing!\" Tom remarked icily.\n> \n> \n> I'd like to stop by the mausoleum,\" Tom said cryptically.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nTom Swifties are exaggerated dialog tags. The joke is when the description is taken literally, it matches what was said in the dialog. A Tom Swifty explanation from a writer's blog: <https://www.rosswelford.com/lets-talk-about-adverbs-he-said-swiftly/>\n\nRemember Tom Swifties as 'bad' examples, things to avoid. Your alternate tags need to grow the subtext, by giving *contrast* or nuance to the actual dialog.\n\nAvoid repeating what was just said literally in the dialog. If it's not new information it probably isn't necessary so keep it simple and undistracting." }, { "answer_id": 66454, "author": "Divizna", "author_id": 56731, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/56731", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Oh, please, don't be purple.\n\nUsing overly flowery words distracts from the content and from the story. \"DaedUW\" (and pretty much also \"asked\" and \"replied\" or \"answered\") is a largely invisible word that doesn't steal the attention that should belong elsewhere.\n\nWords like \"teased\" or \"whined\" are fine to use in moderation, at points of the text where you really want to point out the tone. Say, one or two of these in a page-long scene. Very conspicuous words like \"bemoaned\" or even worse \"conjectured\" are generally best avoided completely. These words are grenades. Don't use them unless you really want them to make a deafening *boom*.\n\nIf you think that \"said Aluke\" tags make for a bland narration, try something else. Leave them out. Instead, pair the line with description of the speaker's action where at all possible (and you can even include a description of *inaction*). This generally does the multiple duty of informing the reader who's speaking, setting the mood, and giving engaging details that make the text enjoyable.\n\n> \n> \"And this is what the place looks like.\" Aluke threw a stack of\n> photos on the table. \n> \n> Bob still didn't bother opening his eyes. \"Yes,\n> that's very nice and all, but did you actually check the escape\n> routes?\" \n> \n> Nurol clenched her fists. \"Course we did. What are you\n> taking us for?\" \n> \n> \"Really, man.\" Dan shook his head and lazily blew\n> out a smoke ring. \"By now you should know the girls are pros.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nIt's entirely possible to overdo these as well, but they usually can take you a fairly long way without being excessive, and without making your story look like a game of \"what's the biggest word I can find in the thesaurus?\"." }, { "answer_id": 66537, "author": "SmartBulbInc", "author_id": 60224, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60224", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "**I think that it depends on the intent, intensity, and purpose of the message that the author is trying to communicate. However, for the most part, I think that verbs used on action beats should not be overused.**\n\nThe problem with using too many words on action beats is that it makes dialogue-less readable and distracts from what is being said. For the most part, verbs used to communicate that something is being \"said\" should be invisible to the reader, unless it is important to the story. Take, for example, this sentence.\n\n> \n> \"Hi Cunde,\" said Metk, \"how's it going?\"\n> \n> \n> \"No very well. Something is wrong with my father,\" said Cunde.\n> \n> \n> \"Oh,\" replied Vavhaw. He lowered his head. \"I'm sorry to hear that.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nIn this sentence, when \"said\" and \"replied\" are used, they are near-inviable. The reader is instead focused on what the characters are feeling, the action of the scene, and the dynamic between the characters.\n\nOn top of that, the reader is given the freedom to decide exactly how the characters are responding to each other, and the ramifications that that has on the scene.\n\nOn the other hand, when the sentence is written like this:\n\n> \n> \"Hi Cunde,\" beamed Metk, \"how's it going?\"\n> \n> \n> \"No very well. Something is wrong with my father,\" wailed Cunde.\n> \n> \n> \"Oh,\" sniffled Vavhaw. He lowered his head. \"I'm sorry to hear that.\"\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe dialogue here is weakened because the reader is forced to focus on things that distract from the message that is communicated. Not only does the reader have to spend extra effort trying to contemplate words that don't add anything to the dialogue, but it also limits creativity. It deprives the reader of the ability to imagine for themselves how the characters are talking to each other.\n\nHowever, even though I think that such verbs shouldn't be overused, I do think, when used sparingly, they can help improve a story.\n\nFor example.\n\n> \n> \"My father. He-he, is dead,\" said Zotn.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThis sentence does not really invoke too much emotion on its own. However, when the correct verb is used here:\n\n> \n> \"My father. He-he, is dead,\" cried Zotn.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThe sentence is improved because it helps to establish the emotion of the character.\n\nSo, ultimately, I think that it depends on the intent of the author and what they want the reader to focus on. However, I think that verbs used on action beats should not be overused for the sake of impact and clarity." }, { "answer_id": 66548, "author": "codeMonkey", "author_id": 40325, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/40325", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "The Action Verbs Are Lairs\n--------------------------\n\nThe action verbs make you - as the author - feel like you've described the situation in depth. But you have not. They lied to you.\n\nIs Yally playfully teasing (flirting?) or is she mean-teasing (bullying)?\n\nIs Emily worried about the rain because she's vain and its going to ruin her outfit, or is she under dressed and worried about being cold?\n\nThese are *interesting* distinctions. They tell us about the character. And it's really easy to update your dialog to tell the difference; describe the way Yally looks at Zotn while she says her line, and mention Emily shivering. It takes maybe 10 more words, but it gives the reader a much better understanding of the situation.\n\nAction verbs as dialog tags make you feel like these descriptions aren't needed - \"I already said she's teasing him!\" But the scene would be stronger if you'd used just a few more words to tell the reader more.\n\nAnd the action verbs make you feel like you don't need to -- that's why they're bad." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66444", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/19292/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66450, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "I don't think it's disrespectful, but opinions may vary. If you want to be safer, then potentially change the name of the village in question. (To avoid offending any living relatives / victims etc). You could also look at acknowledging the tragedy somewhere in the foreword or author's notes.\n\nReally, it's about how you present the subject matter, and the overall tone of the book.\n\nWith crime fiction, I'd expect you're writing a relatively serious book, and won't be poking fun at it. Since this is your main character, I'd expect you to be presenting them at least somewhat sympathetically to the reader. This ties in with the massacre being shown with due horror and acknowledgement of its impacts." }, { "answer_id": 66451, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 5, "selected": false, "text": "I wouldn't see it as disrespectful in and of itself. I would do some research into where refugees migrated to. That said, it is shedding a light on a piece of history that isn't covered in western media, which is always helpful to victims.\n\nI would advise that you make a fictional village and take elements from several different events in the civil war to shape it, but you can acknowledge the real places in your own way (maybe he was mistaken as coming from another real village, or he remembers his parents talking about other real villages that were massacred). That way, you can highlight real tragedies while not offending survivors who live in these villages, which might be small and tight knit.\n\nShould point out that Xoqes Timiron didn't seem to have any qualms when he made a romance film set on the maiden voyage of the Titanic... nor was there public outrage enough to keep the film from becoming the first to gross over $1 Billion dollars in its initial theatrical release ($1.84 Billion to be precise - it not only broke the billion dollar ceiling, it damn near did it twice). At the time of its release, it was the 5th film based on the tragedy, the first debuting in 1915... three years after the sinking." }, { "answer_id": 66453, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 4, "selected": false, "text": "I don't think it was disrespectful, referencing brutal history is not. We cannot be expected to never reference the terrible things in history out of \"respect\".\n\nI would consider it disrespectful to ***celebrate*** some kind of brutality, like some do the Holocaust, but it is not disrespectful for me to invent a character whose parents died in a German concentration camp.\n\nI would not use the name of a real village. You can use the circumstances, but if you get too specific, then you are talking about a relatively small group of people, that can take offense, and in the era of social media, even a small group or one person may by chance get a lot of attention, and negative publicity for your fiction.\n\nSomeone may say \"That story could only be about **my father** or something like that. Then you are left waving your hands and saying \"No, no, it is just coincidence, I swear!\"\n\nThere is a reason authors often set their stories in real countries or areas, but invent the town names, or street names, or even just addresses on real streets. I live in a city, I might set a story here, but I'd make up the street name and address.\n\nYour other option is to never use the name of the village. For example, \"When his village was attacked, ...\" Always reference it as \"his village\", \"the village\", etc. And you can make references to some of the villages — He says, \"It was worse than Tazrouk, worse than El Kala.\"\n\nSwuzf like that, for realism. But you don't have to be **so** real that you might inadvertently intersect reality and cause hard feelings." }, { "answer_id": 66460, "author": "Javed Alam", "author_id": 60108, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60108", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I personally do not think it is disrespectful. In fact, I **strongly** counter-argue that \"white-washing\" or avoiding the use of brutal and morally unjust historical tragedies within works of art worsens the problem that it is trying to solve, because it does not acknowledge the brutality that occurred, essentially \"sweeping it under the rug\". In order to learn from the mistakes of our ancestors, we must be aware of them; to not validate their occurrences in historical works of fiction is akin to censorship in my opinion.\n\nI personally feel that even the fact that you felt it was necessary to ask this question (and let me be clear, I am **NOT** blaming you, I am making a statement about our current cultural zeitgeist), shows how the fear of being politically incorrect has stifled free speech in the 21st century, when all one is doing is being factual, which is the point of historical fiction. People can read these events and understand that they were horrific. The influence on character development is also likely to be a negative influence, which further exemplifies the fact that these are mistakes that our civilisation must attempt to avoid in the future.\n\nI have a similar opinion (and think that it is pertinent to your query) regarding the current culture of banning people with views with which the majority disagree (but a quiet and **growing** minority agree) from speaking on college campuses. If we do not let these people speak, then how are we ever able to debate their ideas and repudiate them? \"Cancel culture\", cancelling people from speaking on campuses, actually gives power to those who hold these beliefs, because it can make their followers believe that there is a conspiracy to stifle their voices, which may embolden them further to believe in farcical or harmful ideas.\n\nUltimately if a speaker is banned, this gives them tremendous publicity, and, (justifiably) a right to complain. Following this, they discuss their ideas within an echo chamber online, rather than in a University where they could easily be rationally challenged by the audience asking questions that demonstrate logical flaws present in the speaker's content and/or reasoning. I would not be surprised at all if these individuals enjoy being \"cancelled\", for these reasons. They get to claim that they are oppressed, and no one can challenge their ideas in a public forum." }, { "answer_id": 66466, "author": "TimothyAWiseman", "author_id": 32391, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/32391", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "If you want to avoid being disrespectful, you should handle the topic with care. With that said, this is done all the time by professional writers and many of those works are fantastic and not frequently accused of being disrespectful.\n\nMagneto from the X-men is a famous example and includes being a holocaust survivor in his back story.\n\nThe Kite Runner is an amazing book. While its not quite \"background\" since it happens in the book and there are events before it, many of the main characters in the book are shaped by the Soviet Union's military intervention in Afghanistan. The military intervention itself is only briefly touched on, but its impact on the lives, development, and personalities of the characters plays a major role in the later parts of the book.\n\nIf you want to avoid offending people, then handle these matters delicately, especially if the tragedy in question is still somewhat fresh. But they absolutely should be handled in fiction." }, { "answer_id": 66468, "author": "kaya3", "author_id": 49728, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/49728", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "It's not inherently harmful to represent real tragedies in fiction; but it's good to think about what harm there could be if you do it badly. There is a common trap here of thinking only about \"offense\", but people being offended or feeling disrespected is only one kind of harm. A greater potential harm is misinformation or misrepresentation; you don't want your writing to seed misconceptions or prejudices about the people involved in that tragedy.\n\nThe main concern I would have is that you're writing about a real-life tragedy which is relatively obscure to your readers, and your readers are unlikely to see any information about this tragedy other than what's in your story. You have a responsibility to tell the true parts of the story accurately, particularly because any mistakes you make probably won't get corrected for most of your readers. So, do the necessary research to get those parts right.\n\nYou also have some responsibility to not mislead readers into mistakenly thinking that the fictional parts of your story are real. For example, if your story includes any real people (e.g. politicians or military leaders) then your readers will assume that any actions or motivations you write for those people are supposed to be real. Hence, if you write about a fictional action or motivation then the character should also be fictional. The same applies for details about events: if the event really happened then readers can easily assume that details about those events in your story are supposed to be accurate. This way if readers do go on to find other information about the same specific people or events, they are less likely to conflate those people or events with your fictional portrayals.\n\nOn the other hand, if you get this right then your story might help people better understand the real tragedy that your story references, which can be a positive outcome, and wouldn't be possible if you wrote about a fictional tragedy instead." }, { "answer_id": 66483, "author": "frIT", "author_id": 60133, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60133", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "There's a certain thought direction that in fact feels that one is **honoring the victims** by \"telling their story\". Often in the form of a fictional character that is representative of various real victims. It could be argued that for example Xoqes Timiron is honoring the victims of the Titanic by showing what they went through, that countless holocaust stories are honoring the victims that died in that.\n\nI feel there are a number of traps that one should look out for when attempting to do this (some of the other answers hint at some of these):\n\n1. **Avoid clichés.** One can tell only so many for example holocaust or \"nasty Nazi\" stories before they start to bore by their sameness (with all due respect). Each story should have something worthwhile telling that has not been told before.\n2. **Multiple sides.** For any war, including a civil war, to occur, there has to be two (or more) views that people feel so strong about that they are willing to kill or die for it. The victors usually determine which version becomes the popular narrative, but that is often stripped of nuance and depth. Not saying that you should, but if one can give a nod to the various views, this could serve to create a much richer story. Our film world would be poorer without e.g. the [Oscar Schindlers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schindler%27s_List), [Von Stauffenbergs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valkyrie_(film)) and even the [human Hitlers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall_(2004_film)).\n3. **Facts.** Get the facts right or be vague enough to not matter. Untruths, even unintentional, as well as perceived twisting to support a certain viewpoint, is not going to be well received by all, and will have its effect on your reputation." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66449", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60092/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66465, "author": "GiantSpaceHamster", "author_id": 60110, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60110", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "I feel that the problem with overemphasising the theme and being too preachy is the subversion of reader expectations.\n\nSomeone who reads a brochure published by the Stop Overreliance on Technology Foundation, or someone who buys a book called \"Technology Addiction: How to Break Free From It\" is probably expecting a lengthy discussion of negative consequences of tech addiction and is likely expecting tips addressed directly to the reader. If they find the book to be a fictional story with only a limited exposure of the topic, they may feel cheated.\n\nLikewise, someone who starts reading what they expect to be a fictional story wanting it to provide entertainment and instead finds it to be a thinly disguised discussion of the dangers of technology addiction may feel similarly cheated.\n\nIs it possible to make it work? I'm not sure. This is similar to 'breaking the fourth wall' in film and television. It tends to see more use in genres like comedy and musicals - if your story is comedic in nature it may work better. Likewise, if the story makes it clear from the outset that it's intended to be mostly a morality play and the plot is there mainly for illustrative purposes, then a lengthy monologue addressed to the reader may be more easily accepted.\n\nIf your goal is to examine the dangers of technology addiction, I'm wondering if a lengthy monologue addressed directly to the reader at the end would be counterproductive. I'm sure you've heard the phrase 'show, not tell'. It may be a lot more powerful if the story shows characters who are struggling with problems brought on by technology addiction and if later they manage to wean themselvess off that addiction and see their lives improve as a result. I also think that as a reader, it feels better if the story alows you to make your own conclusion rather than straight up tells you what you should think.\n\nPlease take this for what it is, which is an opinion of a random person on the Internet who likes to read books." }, { "answer_id": 66482, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "There are probably several ways that a didactic passage could be appended to a story to reinforce a theme in the story and present resources for handling an issue without excessively offending the reader. The following three came to mind.\n\nFor a shortish story, the story could be framed with a parent telling the story to a child leaving the nest. After the conclusion of the internal story, the parent could then provide instruction about avoiding the mistakes the parent (or a friend) made and how the parent/friend recovered. This avoids directly addressing the reader — avoiding defensiveness — and draws in the reader some allowance for a parent's protectiveness. A close friend might also have the emotional investment and relational trust to be able (from the reader's perspective) to preach from experience\n\nIf the reader forgets the framing, a longer story might be acceptable, but length would lead to fridge logic — \"Wait, the parent was telling this story for ten hours without a break?!\" — which could easily break the belief that the didactic portion is that parent extending the lesson. Breaking the internal story into sub-stories could avoid this difficulty, using multiple framing texts to link the story fragments. For example, a new roommate might first tell of a former roommate (who either, later in the inner story, has the issue or was affected by the narrator's issue) and how they became friends and roommates, then have an external fragment set a few weeks later perhaps after a shared social engagement (meal, entertainment, shared volunteering, or whatever) that reminds the narrator of the previous friend and introduces another story section, then perhaps an outer fragment where the narrator's roommate is hinted at being exposed to the issue and the narrator gives some information about the start of the issue (which can be an effort to say \"I have some experience with this, if you want to talk about it\" without being intrusive), another external story fragment might then present more hints of the issue (which the narrator might be misinterpreting) with more details of the narrator's previous experience presented in the inner story. Eventually, the narrator could reveal the deep impact of the issue in another inner story and conclude with the didactic portion.\n\nAnother method, which does not use a character's voice, would be to present an \"About the Author\" section explaining the motivation behind writing the story followed by advice about recognizing the issue and dealing with it. A well-written story will communicate that the author cares and the \"about\" section could communicate that the caring is not merely abstract but personal; the reader could choose not to read the didactic portion (it is not forced on the reader as part of the story) but would be encouraged by the author's emotional investment and by curiosity.\n\nA third method would be to have the character write, e.g., a blog post about the issue and share it with another character asking for advice. The character can then deal with some of the reader's objects by explaining to the blog post's test reader that the character does not want to turn people off by seeming preachy but really wants to help others avoid the consequences of the issues known all too well from personal experience.\n\nMost readers would not appreciate being tricked into being preached at. However, if the preaching does not directly address the reader (as in the first and third methods) and if the motivation for preaching is understandable and preaching seems to flow naturally from the preceding content, the reader may more readily accept it.\n\nAll three of the described methods have limitations. The first tends to exclude more abstract arguments about the issue since it is a friendly sharing and not an essay. The reader is more likely to skip the didactic portion with the second method, though a compelling story will tend to draw interest in the author as a person and the author's personal experience is likely to draw interest in the 'essay'. The third method seems a middle ground; the blog post format allows abstract argument but there is more risk of the reader feeling tricked. Having the test reader provide some valid negative criticism might moderate the sense that the (actual) reader is being preached to unwillingly." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66459", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/36239/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66465, "author": "GiantSpaceHamster", "author_id": 60110, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60110", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "I feel that the problem with overemphasising the theme and being too preachy is the subversion of reader expectations.\n\nSomeone who reads a brochure published by the Stop Overreliance on Technology Foundation, or someone who buys a book called \"Technology Addiction: How to Break Free From It\" is probably expecting a lengthy discussion of negative consequences of tech addiction and is likely expecting tips addressed directly to the reader. If they find the book to be a fictional story with only a limited exposure of the topic, they may feel cheated.\n\nLikewise, someone who starts reading what they expect to be a fictional story wanting it to provide entertainment and instead finds it to be a thinly disguised discussion of the dangers of technology addiction may feel similarly cheated.\n\nIs it possible to make it work? I'm not sure. This is similar to 'breaking the fourth wall' in film and television. It tends to see more use in genres like comedy and musicals - if your story is comedic in nature it may work better. Likewise, if the story makes it clear from the outset that it's intended to be mostly a morality play and the plot is there mainly for illustrative purposes, then a lengthy monologue addressed to the reader may be more easily accepted.\n\nIf your goal is to examine the dangers of technology addiction, I'm wondering if a lengthy monologue addressed directly to the reader at the end would be counterproductive. I'm sure you've heard the phrase 'show, not tell'. It may be a lot more powerful if the story shows characters who are struggling with problems brought on by technology addiction and if later they manage to wean themselvess off that addiction and see their lives improve as a result. I also think that as a reader, it feels better if the story alows you to make your own conclusion rather than straight up tells you what you should think.\n\nPlease take this for what it is, which is an opinion of a random person on the Internet who likes to read books." }, { "answer_id": 66482, "author": "Community", "author_id": -1, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/-1", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "There are probably several ways that a didactic passage could be appended to a story to reinforce a theme in the story and present resources for handling an issue without excessively offending the reader. The following three came to mind.\n\nFor a shortish story, the story could be framed with a parent telling the story to a child leaving the nest. After the conclusion of the internal story, the parent could then provide instruction about avoiding the mistakes the parent (or a friend) made and how the parent/friend recovered. This avoids directly addressing the reader — avoiding defensiveness — and draws in the reader some allowance for a parent's protectiveness. A close friend might also have the emotional investment and relational trust to be able (from the reader's perspective) to preach from experience\n\nIf the reader forgets the framing, a longer story might be acceptable, but length would lead to fridge logic — \"Wait, the parent was telling this story for ten hours without a break?!\" — which could easily break the belief that the didactic portion is that parent extending the lesson. Breaking the internal story into sub-stories could avoid this difficulty, using multiple framing texts to link the story fragments. For example, a new roommate might first tell of a former roommate (who either, later in the inner story, has the issue or was affected by the narrator's issue) and how they became friends and roommates, then have an external fragment set a few weeks later perhaps after a shared social engagement (meal, entertainment, shared volunteering, or whatever) that reminds the narrator of the previous friend and introduces another story section, then perhaps an outer fragment where the narrator's roommate is hinted at being exposed to the issue and the narrator gives some information about the start of the issue (which can be an effort to say \"I have some experience with this, if you want to talk about it\" without being intrusive), another external story fragment might then present more hints of the issue (which the narrator might be misinterpreting) with more details of the narrator's previous experience presented in the inner story. Eventually, the narrator could reveal the deep impact of the issue in another inner story and conclude with the didactic portion.\n\nAnother method, which does not use a character's voice, would be to present an \"About the Author\" section explaining the motivation behind writing the story followed by advice about recognizing the issue and dealing with it. A well-written story will communicate that the author cares and the \"about\" section could communicate that the caring is not merely abstract but personal; the reader could choose not to read the didactic portion (it is not forced on the reader as part of the story) but would be encouraged by the author's emotional investment and by curiosity.\n\nA third method would be to have the character write, e.g., a blog post about the issue and share it with another character asking for advice. The character can then deal with some of the reader's objects by explaining to the blog post's test reader that the character does not want to turn people off by seeming preachy but really wants to help others avoid the consequences of the issues known all too well from personal experience.\n\nMost readers would not appreciate being tricked into being preached at. However, if the preaching does not directly address the reader (as in the first and third methods) and if the motivation for preaching is understandable and preaching seems to flow naturally from the preceding content, the reader may more readily accept it.\n\nAll three of the described methods have limitations. The first tends to exclude more abstract arguments about the issue since it is a friendly sharing and not an essay. The reader is more likely to skip the didactic portion with the second method, though a compelling story will tend to draw interest in the author as a person and the author's personal experience is likely to draw interest in the 'essay'. The third method seems a middle ground; the blog post format allows abstract argument but there is more risk of the reader feeling tricked. Having the test reader provide some valid negative criticism might moderate the sense that the (actual) reader is being preached to unwillingly." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66470", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/43118/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66484, "author": "Mary", "author_id": 44281, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/44281", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "A light hand with aftermath is usually wisest. After all, the climax is over, and this is just cleaning things up. (And you never know, you might have an idea for a sequel. You don't want to preclude it too hard.)\n\nOne thing is looking for ways to convey as much as possible in a few scenes as possible. A reunion a year after the climax, where several minor characters have wed, and one couple is carrying about a newborn while everyone brushes on their subsequent careers, can cover a lot of ground.\n\nAnother thing is that a lot can be implied rather than stated. I read a work where the last scene had a main character going somewhere to rejoin his beloved, and another character deciding to try it. Then there was a birth announcement, with the main character and his beloved as the parents, and attending doctor, by her last name, had married the other character.\n\nImportant points are that aftermaths that resonate with the main story line, and that clear up burning questions about what happened to interesting minor characters whose fates would otherwise leave the reader dissatisfied. (Sometimes beta readers are needed for the later.)" }, { "answer_id": 66489, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I hardly talk about aftermath at all.\n\nIn one of my stories, in the finale the hero is attacked by traitors intent upon killing her, people that manipulated her and that she trusted with her life -- because she is about to ruin their plot.\n\nBetween her and her older mentor, they are able to kill them all, but he is fatally stabbed -- but not, she cuts him open and saves him, until help arrives.\n\nIn the aftermath, after the dust settled, she has figured out the secret her mentor has been keeping from her for the whole story. And why he didn't want her to know it.\n\nShe forgives him. There is just one scene, about five pages, dealing with the rest of the aftermath. The rebuilding that must be done, the new leadership of her group, etc.\n\nOnce the central questions are answered, get out quickly. All that you should be writing about is answers, not raising interest in a different story.\n\nIt is much like TV or Movies in this respect; they end very quickly after the main conflict is resolved. Quick scenes that answer questions and raise no new questions. 10 seconds for a funeral scene. Scenes with 2 or 3 lines.\n\nI wouldn't spend even a page on each resolution, just a few hundred words is enough.\n\nI think the only exception is if you know there is a sequel, you might want to set that up and raise a new question. But as far as tying up loose ends, tie them up fast." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66476", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/36239/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66487, "author": "Divizna", "author_id": 56731, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/56731", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "I wouldn't deem it offensive if I ran across a name in your story that forms a word in my language, but it's a little too likely I might find it funny or distracting. Same goes for other languages if I can identify the language and meaning of the word.\n\nIf the word is something that'd be implausible as a name, has funny connotations, wrong gender for your character, a mismatch between the language and the character's ethnic background, a childish insult... Expect me to laugh where you were being completely serious, and my suspension of disbelief to threateningly shake in its base.\n\nSo unless the story is meant to be humorous (and even then, because any joke you put in should be a good joke and this is not a reliable way to get them), I can't say I recommend such a method of naming your characters, but for a different reason than you were afraid." }, { "answer_id": 66490, "author": "Kate Gregory", "author_id": 15601, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15601", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Many names in English are just regular words from other languages. I know someone called Aimee, which is \"loved one\" or beloved in French. She is \"named after\" her father, whose name means beloved in another language. The parents don't speak either of these languages, they had a baby name book and looked up the meaning of their own names then looked up other names with that meaning.\n\nIf the words you chose \"fit\" the characters - Brave, Strong, Chosen etc then even if someone happens to know the language you chose, there won't be a dissonance. If the names translate into words that are not normally names, like Paper or Suitcase, then a reader will probably think something like \"ha! those random syllables are actually a word in a language I know, interesting\" and move right along. The name Jese in English refers to the flower. In French, those letters mean pink. A French-reading reader won't think I named my character Pink.\n\nIt's not appropriating or stealing from a language to use a word from it. But try not to use it in a way that would upset someone who happens to recognize it. Avoid swear words, political words, placenames of famous battles (imagine a character called Nazi or Alamo), and you should be fine. People aren't fine-tooth reading for offence, no matter what you've been told." }, { "answer_id": 66493, "author": "MikeS", "author_id": 60092, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60092", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I don’t see any issue with it, but I think the more unusual the name, the more readers are going to expect the background of how the character was named to be explained, even if it’s just one or two lines.\n\nIf the name translates to something silly in another language (like ‘table’), I’d probably put a joke/reference to that as well." }, { "answer_id": 66504, "author": "MS-SPO", "author_id": 59124, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59124", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Hm, in marketing they made a strange experience several times: the great marketing slogan had a strange, rude or avoided connotation in other languages.\n\nSo I suggest to check carefully for other languages than the ones you used, too." }, { "answer_id": 66527, "author": "M. A. Golding", "author_id": 37093, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/37093", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Maybe some of the words you want to use as names could be the nicknames instead of the names of the characters.\n\nNicknames can be really weird and strange and totally different from people's real names." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66486", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60141/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66491, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I shouldn't have to say, there are many ways two people can die together.\n\nA terrorist bombs a theater they were attending, or opens fire with an automatic weapon and they were both directly in the line of fire. Or (real world) they were grocery shopping together and were attacked.\n\nThey could both have been vaccine deniers, and both died of Covid.\n\nThey could have been together when a bridge collapsed.\n\nThey could have been caught in a hurricane and drowned. Or on an aircraft headed out on vacation, that went down.\n\nThey could have died together in a earthquake, or in a tornado. In a house fire at night, due to faulty wiring.\n\nYour job is imagination. If you think a car crash is cliche, imagine something else." }, { "answer_id": 66498, "author": "MikeS", "author_id": 60092, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60092", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "I just got up to this part of my own story, where I needed the protagonist's parents to have died years ago. My immediate thought was car accident... that was my red flag that it's used far too often.\n\nBecause my protag was from Algeria, it got me researching and I discovered there was a Civil War in Algeria (~150,000 deaths) right around the time was protag was a young child. It instantly provided a much richer background for my character and his parents, despite my initial hesitation about using it: [Is it morally wrong to use tragic historical events as character background/development?](https://writing.stackexchange.com/q/66449/60092)\n\nI don't like to use the word lucky for something so tragic, but I was *lucky* that the circumstances fell into place to give me a different scenario than 'car accident' so you may not have something like that depending on your context. But there's definitely more creative ways.\n\nThis might sound morbid, but in Google, click on News then search for \"couple dies...\" and you'll get a whole list of news items with different circumstances of how couples die together." }, { "answer_id": 66526, "author": "M. A. Golding", "author_id": 37093, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/37093", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Maybe they went to view the wreckage of the Titanic in the Titan submersible and it imploded.\n\nOf course most people know only 5 people died in the Titan. But maybe by the time your story is published most people will have forgotten the details.\n\nOr maybe the parents were adventure tourists and went on a group climbing Mount Everest and the whole group was wiped out in an avalanche or snow storm there.\n\nMaybe their frozen corpses are now landmarks on one route to the summit, since it would be too dangerous to attempt to carry their corpses down the mountain — even injured but still living persons have been left because it would be too dangerous to try to carry them down. The protagonist may have copies of photos of his parent's corpses and may think about forming an expedition to recover their corpses, even though experts say it would be impossible.\n\nMaybe both parents were working in the World Trade Center on 9-11-2001.\n\nSeveral decades ago an apartment building was destroyed and several people were killed when a nearby natural gas pipeline exploded.\n\nSeven-year-old Arthur Blihgk was left at home in the care of his grandmother when his sea captain father, Benjamin Blihgk, his mother Horah, and his two-year-old sister Sophia Matilda sailed from New York with a cargo for Genoa, Italy in October 1872 in the ship commanded by Blihgk. The *Mary Celeste*.\n\nYou may have heard about the famous Yally family of Philadelphia. A family legend claims their ancestor emigrated to the USA on the last voyage to the USA made by the *City of Boston* before it disappeared in early 1870 on a voyage back to Britain.\n\nAnd if your story isn't set in the 19th century, don't worry, maritime disasters still happen in the 21st century.\n\nThere have been four shipwrecks in the 21st century where over a thousand people died, and dozens more where more than a hundred died, and still more where tens of people died. Only 27 passengers and 5 crewmembers died out of over 4,000 people on the cruse ship *Costa Concordia* when it sank in 2012, and only two people wrre missing and presumed dead out of 1,153 passengers on the cruise ship *[MS Sea Diamond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Sea_Diamond)* when it sank in 2007.\n\nYou should be able to find a maritime disaster which happened about the right time and place for your story on this list.\n\nWikipedia has a list of lists of [21st Century disasters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:21st-century_disasters).\n\nThere should be a number of disasters which happened about the right time and place for your story." }, { "answer_id": 66532, "author": "Mary", "author_id": 44281, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/44281", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "The reason why \"car accident\" is so popular is that it's plausible, both in itself and that it would kill both parents, it's commonplace so as to not draw undue attention, and it does not impose a direction on the story.\n\nIf you wish to replace it with something else that works the same, check for the most common causes of death in the appropriate age group, and pick one that would reasonably kill both.\n\nYou should note that many forms of death will work differently. For instance, the parents were killed when hit by a meteor. This is so freakish and unusual that your readers will expect it to mean something. Also that characters will have heard of it and connect the child to it -- possibly, if their name is unusual, for years after.\n\nLikewise, if the parents were killed by deliberate poisoning, the question arises of who the murderer is, whether the child is in danger, and all the rest. If it's merely omitted from the story, the reader will miss something. (Of course, a car \"accident\" could also be murder, but a writer would have to write that in.)" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66488", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59859/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66508, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "This is difficult to do well, often leaving the reader annoyed and unsatisfied rather than happy with this twist in the story.\n\nHere are some guidelines which may help you:\n\n1. **Don't lie to the reader.** While you can play some tricks with POV (i.e. the character we're viewing the action through thinks the character is dead) - don't tell the reader anything untrue when describing the action. If the character gets hit with a laser, don't retro it afterwards to 'it narrowly missed'.\n2. **Always foreshadow.** If the hero is shot into another dimension, or is actually a hologram, then make sure you've mentioned somewhere previously that this is possible.\n3. **Don't repeat the trick.** Once you 'cheapen' death by making it something which you can come back from, the reader will generally be on their guard and not take the same emotional resonance from it.\n4. **Explain the character's actions logically.** There should be a cause why the character could not return to his friends immediately, and appeared at the exact moment to save the day. That reason should be better than \"it's cool and dramatic\" unless you're writing something very pulpy." }, { "answer_id": 66511, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "> \n> everyone, including his friends, assumes Mokarimk has been obliterated\n> by the attack. They become disheartened, believing their comrade has\n> been lost forever.\n> \n> \n> However, unbeknownst to them and to the readers, Mokarimk manages to\n> miraculously survive the assault. Unveiling a surprise twist a few\n> chapters later, Mokarimk makes a triumphant comeback.\n> \n> \n> \n\nFool your characters, not your readers\n--------------------------------------\n\nThere's an old saying you can fool *some* of the people part of the time, but you can't fool all of them.... Your readers are a diverse group. Accept that some are never going to be fooled by a main character's fake death, mid-story.\n\nThis trope has been over-used – I can think of probably a dozen Star Trek episodes where a main character is obliterated into subatomic matter by an energy force that would incinerate half a planet, only for them to be fine (barely an inconvenience) by the end of the episode.\n\nUnfortunately, this means people are expecting it, you can't rely on the reader being surprised. Worst-case: you can't rely on readers' **suspension of disbelief** because you're setting up a situation where the reader will doubt the author (because they have seen this trope in so many instances) and then be proven correct.\n\n**Readers know how this works: no corpse = not really dead.**\n\nWhen the reader predicts the plot in spite of the author's attempt to hide it, it's deal-breaker.\n\nUse your Ensemble\n-----------------\n\nIn the absence of your hero/leader, the ensemble becomes your main character. They can't *all* sit around feeling sad, there is still a super-villain on the loose who is pretty sure he can now do whatever he wants unimpeded.\n\nAnd he's right!\n\nYou have a ticking clock: the super-villain is strong enough to defeat any of them individually. They MUST work together, but their established patterns are no longer working. Some of the team will recognize this and want to re-group, while some of the team want revenge. Without a clear leader, schisms emerge that pull the group in different directions.\n\nUltimately, they will make decisions in-line with their individual characters, rather than trusting in the group. **Your ensemble/team experiences a negative arc.** *For example, a hot-head rushes in to fight putting another member in jeopardy, and a third member decides unilaterally to abort the mission and get them out of there, ruining the agreed plan.*\n\nCue: villain laughing maniacally because even he didn't predict how well this would work!\n\n**Make the stakes clear.** The ensemble is not a team without their leader. Everyone feeling sad because a friend died is not a story conflict –– however, members of the team starting to feel like they're better off on their own is a major crisis that can break-up the team forever.\n\nCharacter Growth\n----------------\n\nThis incident has consequences that impacts each member of the group. Interpersonal dynamics that were held in check are now uncertain. Someone will attempt to assume command, others will reject them or find their leadership skills lacking. Mistakes are made, doubts are sewn, and dysfunction grows. No one likes losing, this is salt in the wound.\n\nHow each character deals with this shifting dynamic is far more interesting than a technobabble *deus ex machina*. As a rule, **plot contrivances that help the protagonist are rejected** (like a physics loophole where the MC is blipped into another dimension miraculously unharmed).... But *plot contrivances that generate conflict and hurt the protagonist are accepted*.\n\nKeep the reader engaged in the unfolding drama. Your goal is to exploit the *current conflict* happening right now. This is not a sad, low-point in the story, this is a crisis that is getting worse. Make your ensemble suffer, make them react in ways they'll regret, let them make mistakes that bring danger on the others.\n\nYou have enough cast members to create a diversity of opinions and reactions. Their initial thoughts are not 'Oh no, what about the team?' Rather their initial actions suggest they believe the team is still functional. It's when they try to implement a plan, they learn the group is failing – after they have put themselves in danger. A defeat will be reason enough to loose faith.\n\nThat one character who won't let go...\n--------------------------------------\n\nIt's fine for Tom to observe there is no corpse, and believe his 'Dad' can be brought back. By saying so openly, you deflate readers who are looking to outsmart the author. There is still a mystery for Tom to solve, but it's not 'what happened?' it's more 'what's Tom going to do about it?'\n\nTom has never been without Mav, and you only need 1 other character to say Tom is *in denial* and refusing to accept the inevitable. This isn't just a physics puzzle for Tom – although that may be the way he's been trained to deal with problems. It's potentially a defining crisis for Tom's identity – does he even have a purpose without Mav...?\n\nEven if Mav is somehow alive, Tom has no means to bring him back. The rest of the group will have different levels of sympathy for Tom, but eventually agree their resources are better served fighting the villain. Tom will have to choose whether his loyalty to Mav outweighs his need for the group, perhaps giving him insight into what the others are going through.\n\nChoose the bigger payoff\n------------------------\n\nIn short, you have a chance to remove a key component of your group and let the reader experience the team failing as a consequence –– a situation that has a lot more story potential than just a fake-out death.\n\nThis is a chance to get to know your characters, individualize their motives and manners, and show how they can be on the same side and still disagree. While they are not amateurs, they are under extreme pressure and against the odds. Even if they were functional the task would be hard. It doesn't need to be anyone's fault, just the natural clashes in their nature when their diversity begins to work against them.\n\nYou also have a chance to allow members to review their commitment without Mav holding them together and assuring their wins. Along with the team experiencing a negative arc, you need the individuals to experience their own arcs: how they relate to each other and the group as a whole, what they are contributing and how they have been taking advantage. They need to recommit (to the cause, if not the group) before entering their final battle against the villain.\n\nTreat this incident as a crisis that disrupts the team, but ultimately makes them stronger. It would be nice if they can learn something about themselves and each other (character growth) –– more than just Mav is a 'chosen one' who comes back like Ass-Kicking Jesus to save the day. With a stronger team, you have the option of bringing back Mav at less than full strength (even *gasp* vulnerable after his ordeal).\n\nHeroes that cannot be defeated are derided as 'Mary Sues' wearing 'plot armor' who are always saved by 'deus ex machina' (intervention from the author). But readers get invested in characters who face uncertain challenges, and (hopefully) choose to do the right thing despite personal risks." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66507", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60176/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66508, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "This is difficult to do well, often leaving the reader annoyed and unsatisfied rather than happy with this twist in the story.\n\nHere are some guidelines which may help you:\n\n1. **Don't lie to the reader.** While you can play some tricks with POV (i.e. the character we're viewing the action through thinks the character is dead) - don't tell the reader anything untrue when describing the action. If the character gets hit with a laser, don't retro it afterwards to 'it narrowly missed'.\n2. **Always foreshadow.** If the hero is shot into another dimension, or is actually a hologram, then make sure you've mentioned somewhere previously that this is possible.\n3. **Don't repeat the trick.** Once you 'cheapen' death by making it something which you can come back from, the reader will generally be on their guard and not take the same emotional resonance from it.\n4. **Explain the character's actions logically.** There should be a cause why the character could not return to his friends immediately, and appeared at the exact moment to save the day. That reason should be better than \"it's cool and dramatic\" unless you're writing something very pulpy." }, { "answer_id": 66511, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "> \n> everyone, including his friends, assumes Mokarimk has been obliterated\n> by the attack. They become disheartened, believing their comrade has\n> been lost forever.\n> \n> \n> However, unbeknownst to them and to the readers, Mokarimk manages to\n> miraculously survive the assault. Unveiling a surprise twist a few\n> chapters later, Mokarimk makes a triumphant comeback.\n> \n> \n> \n\nFool your characters, not your readers\n--------------------------------------\n\nThere's an old saying you can fool *some* of the people part of the time, but you can't fool all of them.... Your readers are a diverse group. Accept that some are never going to be fooled by a main character's fake death, mid-story.\n\nThis trope has been over-used – I can think of probably a dozen Star Trek episodes where a main character is obliterated into subatomic matter by an energy force that would incinerate half a planet, only for them to be fine (barely an inconvenience) by the end of the episode.\n\nUnfortunately, this means people are expecting it, you can't rely on the reader being surprised. Worst-case: you can't rely on readers' **suspension of disbelief** because you're setting up a situation where the reader will doubt the author (because they have seen this trope in so many instances) and then be proven correct.\n\n**Readers know how this works: no corpse = not really dead.**\n\nWhen the reader predicts the plot in spite of the author's attempt to hide it, it's deal-breaker.\n\nUse your Ensemble\n-----------------\n\nIn the absence of your hero/leader, the ensemble becomes your main character. They can't *all* sit around feeling sad, there is still a super-villain on the loose who is pretty sure he can now do whatever he wants unimpeded.\n\nAnd he's right!\n\nYou have a ticking clock: the super-villain is strong enough to defeat any of them individually. They MUST work together, but their established patterns are no longer working. Some of the team will recognize this and want to re-group, while some of the team want revenge. Without a clear leader, schisms emerge that pull the group in different directions.\n\nUltimately, they will make decisions in-line with their individual characters, rather than trusting in the group. **Your ensemble/team experiences a negative arc.** *For example, a hot-head rushes in to fight putting another member in jeopardy, and a third member decides unilaterally to abort the mission and get them out of there, ruining the agreed plan.*\n\nCue: villain laughing maniacally because even he didn't predict how well this would work!\n\n**Make the stakes clear.** The ensemble is not a team without their leader. Everyone feeling sad because a friend died is not a story conflict –– however, members of the team starting to feel like they're better off on their own is a major crisis that can break-up the team forever.\n\nCharacter Growth\n----------------\n\nThis incident has consequences that impacts each member of the group. Interpersonal dynamics that were held in check are now uncertain. Someone will attempt to assume command, others will reject them or find their leadership skills lacking. Mistakes are made, doubts are sewn, and dysfunction grows. No one likes losing, this is salt in the wound.\n\nHow each character deals with this shifting dynamic is far more interesting than a technobabble *deus ex machina*. As a rule, **plot contrivances that help the protagonist are rejected** (like a physics loophole where the MC is blipped into another dimension miraculously unharmed).... But *plot contrivances that generate conflict and hurt the protagonist are accepted*.\n\nKeep the reader engaged in the unfolding drama. Your goal is to exploit the *current conflict* happening right now. This is not a sad, low-point in the story, this is a crisis that is getting worse. Make your ensemble suffer, make them react in ways they'll regret, let them make mistakes that bring danger on the others.\n\nYou have enough cast members to create a diversity of opinions and reactions. Their initial thoughts are not 'Oh no, what about the team?' Rather their initial actions suggest they believe the team is still functional. It's when they try to implement a plan, they learn the group is failing – after they have put themselves in danger. A defeat will be reason enough to loose faith.\n\nThat one character who won't let go...\n--------------------------------------\n\nIt's fine for Tom to observe there is no corpse, and believe his 'Dad' can be brought back. By saying so openly, you deflate readers who are looking to outsmart the author. There is still a mystery for Tom to solve, but it's not 'what happened?' it's more 'what's Tom going to do about it?'\n\nTom has never been without Mav, and you only need 1 other character to say Tom is *in denial* and refusing to accept the inevitable. This isn't just a physics puzzle for Tom – although that may be the way he's been trained to deal with problems. It's potentially a defining crisis for Tom's identity – does he even have a purpose without Mav...?\n\nEven if Mav is somehow alive, Tom has no means to bring him back. The rest of the group will have different levels of sympathy for Tom, but eventually agree their resources are better served fighting the villain. Tom will have to choose whether his loyalty to Mav outweighs his need for the group, perhaps giving him insight into what the others are going through.\n\nChoose the bigger payoff\n------------------------\n\nIn short, you have a chance to remove a key component of your group and let the reader experience the team failing as a consequence –– a situation that has a lot more story potential than just a fake-out death.\n\nThis is a chance to get to know your characters, individualize their motives and manners, and show how they can be on the same side and still disagree. While they are not amateurs, they are under extreme pressure and against the odds. Even if they were functional the task would be hard. It doesn't need to be anyone's fault, just the natural clashes in their nature when their diversity begins to work against them.\n\nYou also have a chance to allow members to review their commitment without Mav holding them together and assuring their wins. Along with the team experiencing a negative arc, you need the individuals to experience their own arcs: how they relate to each other and the group as a whole, what they are contributing and how they have been taking advantage. They need to recommit (to the cause, if not the group) before entering their final battle against the villain.\n\nTreat this incident as a crisis that disrupts the team, but ultimately makes them stronger. It would be nice if they can learn something about themselves and each other (character growth) –– more than just Mav is a 'chosen one' who comes back like Ass-Kicking Jesus to save the day. With a stronger team, you have the option of bringing back Mav at less than full strength (even *gasp* vulnerable after his ordeal).\n\nHeroes that cannot be defeated are derided as 'Mary Sues' wearing 'plot armor' who are always saved by 'deus ex machina' (intervention from the author). But readers get invested in characters who face uncertain challenges, and (hopefully) choose to do the right thing despite personal risks." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66509", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60178/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66518, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "It sounds like a bit of a pickle.\n\nYou've already written, edited and polished the book, so I assume you're not going to easily lose around half the length? Its current length will make it more difficult to find a traditional publisher for it (but not impossible if it's good enough).\n\nSelling half a story as a the first book is tough - the perceived wisdom is that book one should work as a standalone, and needs to be a 'complete' story without requiring the reader to purchase book two.\n\nThe definition of 'complete' is nebulous, but fundamentally it means you have to tie off the main plot line for that particular story. How would it feel to just read half your book, up to the point where Napoleon returns? Is it satisfying to stop at this point? Are character arcs completed? Has Act 3 of part one come to a fitting climax? Or are we still very much in the middle of the same story?\n\nE.g. The Napoleonic wars lasted a long time. A book could conclude with an individual battle, campaign or the first defeat of Napoleon. A series could take us through multiple battles, etc (see Shayvu etc)\n\nThe leaves you with some possible options:\n\n1. Send it out to publishers & agents anyway and see if you can get any interest\n2. Self-publish it (readers of historical fiction aren't particularly scared of long books)\n3. Perform an extensive re-write to massively chop down the material into an 'acceptable' novel length for a single, complete book\n4. Extensively re-write to make it into two relatively standalone novels (the first one certaintly has to be standalone, the second one can lean on the first more heavily)" }, { "answer_id": 66714, "author": "onpre", "author_id": 40742, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/40742", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "You wrote: \"*this story is not written in the spirit of a series*\"\n\n* Gone with the Wind contains more than 400,000 words. And I see no\npoint where Kibgoret Mimwkal could have broken into two different\nbooks.\n* J.K. Rowling's \"Hijrp Potfeq\" manuscript was rejected by 12 different\npublishing houses before she finally found a publisher.\n\nDo you honestly find a breaking point on your story? Otherwise, if you feel you have done a fine work, stand for it. Do not ruin the plot consistency to please editors." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66513", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60189/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66519, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> How can I tell whether a name is too difficult to read?\n> \n> \n> \n\nYour example name I find difficult to pronounce, due to unfamiliar characters. If anything, the 'pronounced' example is even worse. (I speak British English)\n\nI don't know whether to say \"Sah-Phil Duck-Whan\" or \"Sa-Bill Du-Quah\".\n\n> \n> How can I make names easier to read?\n> \n> \n> \n\nUse only English letters if you're writing in English. You can't rely on your readers to know about the International Phonetic Alphabet, or accents, umlauts and other non-standard characters.\n\n> \n> How can I better hint at correct pronunciation?\n> \n> \n> \n\nYou could get other characters to say their name phonetically in dialogue, or to struggle with it and have it explained. That'll get old pretty fast though if you do it more than once or twice.\n\nI probably also wouldn't worry about it too much - I read plenty of stuff about ancient greece and I'm sure my pronunciation of some of the words would be shocking to a classicist. Some readers may be more bothered, it's hard to say.\n\nAlternatively, spend a lot of time explaining to the reader how to interact with and understand your language system, possibly through the POV of a foreigner or a child.\n\nYou could have an addendum that explains this stuff - just be aware most people probably won't read it.\n\n---\n\nI know I've been pretty direct in my answer, and hope that comes across as helpful rather than mean.\n\nReally, it depends on what you're trying to do with your book. If you want it to be broadly accessible to as many people as possible, then you may want to ask yourself whether your current approach is the right one?\n\nShould it be \"Sabil Duquan\" rather than \"Saþil Duqhuãn\"?\n\nOn the other hand, if you're happy with a niche audience who loves language and tricky pronouciation, then go for it. Some people *love* the Elvish in Tolkien, but many bounce right off it." }, { "answer_id": 66521, "author": "Gary R.", "author_id": 59179, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59179", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "**How can I tell whether a name is too difficult to read?**\n\nI wouldn't worry as much about whether a name is difficult to read; I would worry about whether it's easy to distinguish from the other names in the book. If you have one character whose name is a string of strange characters and all the others use the Latin alphabet, readers will make up their own pronunciation for that one and all is well. If, on the other hand, you have three characters named Saþil, Såþil, and Sæþil, you will confuse readers. Focus on making the names *different* rather than on making them *readable*.\n\n**How can I make names easier to read?**\n\nTransliterate them or use nicknames.\n\n\"My name is [insert gibberish here]. In your language, it would be SharpTongue. You may call me that.\"\n\nor\n\n\"My name is [insert gibberish here].\"\n\n\"I'm sorry, but I can't say that. How about if I just call you Sisaq?\"\n\n**How can I better hint at correct pronunciation?**\n\nThe tried and true method is to have someone mispronounce the name in dialog and have the character correct them (\"I know it's spelled Shithead, but it's pronounced sha-THAYD\"), but as Phem T said, that gets old pretty quickly.\n\nYou can also include a parenthetical or footnoted pronunciation the first time the character is introduced. That's arguably less intrusive than the mispronunciation route, but it works for people that need it.\n\nOne of my favorite methods is to insert a dramatis personae (cast of characters) at the beginning of the book that includes the pronunciations and a short description (e.g., \"Eldest child of the king\") for each. In complex books, I always appreciate those (and often bookmark them while I'm reading), and people who don't care will just skip over it.\n\nYet another idea is to create a book trailer. Put it on the book's website, YouTube, and whatever social media you use. Direct people to it in the introduction. That way people will hear the name before they even start reading the book." }, { "answer_id": 66523, "author": "Divizna", "author_id": 56731, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/56731", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Some of the things you can do include:\n\n* Test your characters' names on a beta audience.\n\nJust show the written names to some friends, relatives, or random people you stop on the street, and ask, \"How would you pronounce this name?\" If they generally get it the same way you intended, you're good. If they don't, consider changing it to be more intuitive.\n\n* Include a pronunciation guide in your book.\n\nA little heavy-handed, but hey, if Tolkien can, so can you. Just make sure it makes its appearance before the text of the whole story, and not at the very end on page 374. Or even at the end of volume three. (Side eye to my copy of those books.) Not so useful after one has already read the novel.\n\n* Make the names resemble a real language the pronunciation rules of which your audience is likely to be familiar with.\n\nHow would you read Jodri Wätschenger? How about Péchoit Ligneaux?\n\n> \n> Did you read the first as if it was German and the second like French?\n> \n> \n> \n\nWell, I made them up as random clusters of letters with no relation to anything I know how to say in either of those languages, much less any known names. (Before you put names like this in your story, you should probably check you didn't just randomly hit some inappropriate words. I didn't do that, so I have no idea if these would be suitable names or something rude.) Won't work in all settings, though.\n\nAnd of couse, the old and already mentioned...\n\n* Just don't worry about it.\n\nHow much does it really matter if your readers pronounce Voldemort with a silent t like you had in mind?" }, { "answer_id": 66572, "author": "Jay", "author_id": 4489, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/4489", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "One: DON'T use the International Phonetic Alphabet. 90% of your readers won't even know what it is. Most of those who are aware that it exists won't remember more than a handful of the symbols, if any.\n\nMy advice is: Yes, you need to give your non-human characters strange-sounding names. An alien named \"Bom Smutj\" would only work in a comedy. But write them out using ordinary English letters (assuming that you are writing in English). No foreign language letters, no philologist professional symbols, etc. Make them reasonably pronounceable by sounding out the letters. Like you could call a character \"Sathel Duekwon\". Don't give a character some totally unpronounceable name, like \"Xzytchsaldfk\" (which I made by just banging on the keyboard). Arguably aliens or fairies or whatever your non-human characters are might have names that human beings vocal chords are not capable of pronouncing. But if so, humans would come up with some approximation, anyway. Just like we come up with approximations to the sound of foreign languages when they have letters that we don't.\n\nThen don't worry about it. If you intended a name to be pronounced SAY thel but a reader reads it in his head as see THEEL ... so what? Unless the sound of a name is somehow important to the story, in which case you include a conversation where characters struggle over how to pronounce the name and someone explains.\n\nIf your story proves to be a cultural phenomenon, maybe you'll have fans asking about the alphabet and pronunciation of these names. More likely, no one will care much. They just want to get on with the story." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66514", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/57188/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66534, "author": "Kate Gregory", "author_id": 15601, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15601", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "The reader does not need to know \"the story is now focusing on the secondary characters\" - that's meta information for you, not for them. You are focusing on the secondary characters for a reason -- perhaps as a way to fill in the main character's backstory (by having the secondaries discuss it without the main around), perhaps to move the plot forward (by having them do things that will eventually affect the main) or whatever.\n\nThere are two ways you can do it. The first is to give one of the secondaries a scene with the main, and then follow with a scene featuring that same secondary and no main. That's generally pretty straightforward. The second is to just \"cut\" to a scene that has no people in it who we have already met. This is a little mysterious. You can either signpost things to help the reader, say by having the people discuss the main and establish the relationships in the first few paragraphs, or you can lean into it and be mysterious, maybe not even giving the secondaries names at first. With an omniscient narrator, you can do things like:\n\n> \n> Sue [the main, who we've been following for chapters] had no way of knowing her plans were about to be completely upended. In an apartment nearby, two young women sat at a dining table. Papers were everywhere. Pushing her curly hair back for the thousandth time, Ulmen sighed deeply. [now some expository dialog in which Ulmen can call the other woman by name so we know who she is, and what they're up to.]\n> \n> \n> \n\nHow much you say \"and now for something completely different\" and how much you sort of slide from \"these pages were all main, these were main and secondaries together, and these are all secondaries\" is up to you. They are all valid ways to change your focus for a while." }, { "answer_id": 66535, "author": "Erk", "author_id": 10826, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/10826", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "You're asking how to transition between main and secondary characters.\n\nFirst drafts\n------------\n\nBefore I begin, let's talk shortly about first drafts. They're always stinkers and even your favorite author cannot write good first drafts. The most common fix is to not worry, keep going and fix everything in editing. Editing is when the \"real\" work of finishing the novel begins... kind of.\n\nHowever, sometimes a problem with the first draft prevents us from continuing to write. We feel the problem is so big it can't be postponed to editing, but rather needs to be solved right now.\n\nSure, you'll have to fix those clunky transitions sometime, but it doesn't necessarily *have* to be before you finish the first draft. That's up to you to decide.\n\nPerspective\n-----------\n\nIf your question means how to switch point of view (POV) or perspective from main to secondary characters, I suggest you look into [perspectives](https://www.masterclass.com/articles/complete-guide-to-point-of-view-in-writing-definitions-and-examples). What perspective you use will determine how these transitions can be done. In most of them, a good strategy is to stay in one character's POV for a whole scene or even a whole chapter and to always be clear with what character's POV we're in, usually by naming the character in the first paragraph, unless they have a very distinctive voice.\n\nIf your main character and your secondary characters all have POVs, you may want to read up on how to do [more than one POV character](https://blog.reedsy.com/guide/point-of-view/multiple-points-of-view/). This subject is huge, but what POVs a story has could depend on what info is needed and who knows it, to if you want a sprawling story with many perspectives or a narrow story with only one.\n\nPerspective, Scenes, Perspective...\n-----------------------------------\n\nI determine POV characters by combining a few notions:\n\n* The character with the most to lose in a scene should have POV in that scene\n* From your story and your POV characters you can sketch up a list of \"most to lose\" scenes\n* By focusing or widening the story you can remove or add POVs, and similarly, by narrowing or widening the cast you can add or remove scenes (or turn them into [transports/sequels](https://talkwards.com/2022/10/01/rethinking-the-sequel/)—you usually do this for scenes where the POV character isn't the one with the most to lose; we selfishly skip other people's problems to focus back on our own...)\n\nThis is an iterative process you can tweak back and forth until you have a cast and a set of scenes that seem to match other criteria for your story (like what you want to say!) You'll never have a perfect list, but that's fine.\n\nFocus\n-----\n\nIf transition means focus in general you're free to focus on what you want in the story. However, perspective will inform how to best do this focusing (e.g. can the POV character see or know what you focus on? Or is the POV not limited by one person's knowledge?)\n\nFor other types of focus look into [writing descriptions](https://www.writingforward.com/creative-writing/what-is-descriptive-writing), especially [of people](https://www.nownovel.com/blog/how-to-describe-a-person-examples/), or for that matter [how to use personification in descriptions](https://www.livewritethrive.com/2016/06/06/how-writers-can-bring-setting-to-life/).\n\nChapters & Scenes\n-----------------\n\nAs you may have picked up, you use [chapters](https://www.masterclass.com/articles/how-to-structure-chapters-of-your-novel) and scenes as general building blocks in your story, so they also become the general tools for focus and transitions. Transitioning between POVs, Timelines, etc. becomes a question of transitioning between chapters and scenes.\n\nTo keep your scenes distinct they should have a single POV character (scene protagonist) with a scene goal they are striving to achieve, but they meet resistance (from a scene antagonist) usually leading to the scene ending in some form of smaller or larger catastrophe.\n\nIncidentally, in creative writing things like location and cast are way less important than they are in stage- and screenplays (where sloppy handling of these might have people running on and off stage like rabid rabbits... not to mention the risk of creating unplayable location transitions...)\n\nYou then string scenes together with \"therefore\" or \"but\" (rather than \"and then\"). I.e. do \"Zotn wants to marry Vana but Vana loves Guwe\" rather than \"Zotn wants to marry Vana and then they eat wedding cake...\" The first form is usually crucial to create catastrophic scene endings (the two are different perspectives on the same thing—creating a story with conflict)." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66528", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/46384/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66538, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "> \n> almost none of my characters' motivations are driving the plot\n> forward. Rather, the plot is driving the characters forward. **The\n> desires of the character are not driving the action**, but rather it\n> feels like the action is forcing the creators to mindlessly react to\n> what is happening during the plot.\n> \n> \n> \n\nThat's not actually a problem\n-----------------------------\n\nCertain **genres** do not *require* protagonist-driven plots because the protagonist is generally not the cause of the inciting incident.\n\n**Horror \n\nThriller \n\nHostage \n\nMystery \n\nMelodrama, Wrong Man, Persecution \n\nComing of Age \n\nWitness to History**\n\nThe protagonist in the above genres (in your case the ensemble) might not get to act on their own motives until the final chapters, if at all. It's a defining element that the protagonist is *not* in control.\n\nWhen they *do* act, it's often a mistake that brings more conflict. That's the structure of increasing the stakes, they move from frying pan into the fire.\n\nSome common denominators are that **external events drive the story** and the **protagonist must discover the situation as it unfolds**.\n\nIt may be that you need some secondary characters who are failing, so your main characters look better at actively coping with the situation.\n\nScale back, or delay the opening?\n---------------------------------\n\nYou don't say your genre, and you don't seem to have a problem with the characters, themselves. Maybe they are being over-shadowed by your plot?\n\nIf your **inciting incident** is intentionally sensational: an alien invasion, falling through a time-portal..., your protagonists will be *reacting*. LOL!\n\nSince this is a novel not a screenplay, you have the time to get to know your ensemble in their 'normal'. Give them lives where they *are* pursuing their dreams, and just as we learn about their day-to-day conflicts (with themselves, with each other) it's all interrupted by the horrible big inciting incident.\n\nCharacter Agency vs Character-Driven\n------------------------------------\n\nIf you are sure about the plot, maybe it's the characters that need the adjustment.\n\nThe protagonist in **The Diary of Anne Frank** has the least *agency*, is maybe least influential character possible – not every main character gets to fly to Tahiti on a spy-cation. There are benefits to under-powered characters who endure impossible situations. They generate a lot of sympathy in ways that action heroes can't. It's not as if they can exert their desires onto the world. All the more reason to feel satisfaction when they persevere.\n\nCinderella is a character that a lot of plot happens to. Her character is usually 'fixed' by giving her an inner life of hope and dreams in contrast to her harsh reality (it feels like she *wanted* those things to happen, so it's ok that she has no agency?) In some versions, Cinderella is kind to a supernatural being *before* the supernatural favors are returned. I like these versions because what little agency she has she uses to benefit someone less fortunate than herself, earning her indirect pay-off.\n\n**If your plot has stuck you with a passive/reactive MC, maybe consider how they can be written to emphasize their lack of agency.** The 'last girl' trope evolved by making the horror protagonist less and less empowered, until the survivor isn't the hero who stands to fight the monster but the girl who keeps screaming and running away. Thrillers fit nicely with a protagonist who is 'vulnerable' from the start (it adds suspense). Melodrama is a grist-mill on orphans and unmarried mothers. Historical dramas can become *intimate* by focusing on an assistant or helper rather than the legendary figure.\n\nOn the other hand, an action hero who is hog-tied and forced to jump to someone else's whip is not a compelling power fantasy, it's camp. You may have wonderfully competent leaders who don't get the chance to lead, or the 'best and brightest' who immediately fail. Maybe shift the focus away from that opening flaw, by down-grading or distancing your protagonists.\n\nFix it in the 2nd Draft\n-----------------------\n\n*Writing is editing*, as the saying goes." }, { "answer_id": 66541, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "The first half of the first act (10-15% of the story) introduces readers to the \"Normal World\" for the protagonist (Main Character, or Main Crew if you are writing about 2 or more protagonists, both can be abbreviated MC).\n\nAt the midpoint of the first Act, after we understand the Normal World, something happens, called The Inciting Incident (II). The MC has a problem. Something is wrong. And because of they way the MC is in the Normal World, they cannot just ignore it.\n\nOften the II seems minor, the MC does something to address it, but it doesn't work. It gets worse. The MC tries again, and it gets even worse. By the end of the First Act, the MC is in bad trouble, they cannot fix or ignore the problem started by the II, and either physically or metaphorically, they must leave their Normal World to address this problem.\n\nThe Novel is about a struggle, and setbacks, and despair, and eventually the MC must risk everything, even their life, to fix the problem. If they survive, then the problem is solved, and the MC embraces the result. Perhaps a return to their Normal World, or if that is impossible, the final bit of the story shows them embracing the New Normal, and their role in that.\n\nThis is how short stories work, how novels work, how movies work, how television series work (although, those are usually nested stories inside a much longer story, with each episode contributing incrementally to the longer story, which is often wrapped up all at once in a series finale).\n\nEach episode of a TV Series is Normal/Problem/Escalation/Resolution, with 5 or 10 minutes devoted to each phase. And sometimes we can squeeze in a beat (development) in the long arc series story.\n\nThe plot is supposed to drive the characters. Their problem is imposed upon them, and they are forced to react. After that, the MC and the villain (either personified or a natural villain like an earthquake or cancer) are forced to respond to each other.\n\nBut the *reason* the MC responds is because, way back in the setup, that first 10-15% of the story, when you are most able to just assert things and have readers believe them, you showed us the personality and goals and type of person your MC is. In a way that means they *must* respond to the inciting incident. But then, as you wish, their response is driven from within, from their own desires and emotions and morals.\n\nYou don't just define people you like and then throw in a problem. You need to design your characters and show us who they are, in a way that we know they ***must*** respond to the problem. **THIS** woman we have met will **not** let that man kidnap that child. That is against everything we just learned about her.\n\nThat's the kind of job you have to do; your characters must be designed to fit your plot so even if they may hesitate, ultimately they cannot help but engage, whether that is courage or weakness,. And that engagement leads to problems, a chain reaction that culminates in a completed story." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66536", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60224/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66552, "author": "Apollinaire Ndayikeze", "author_id": 60235, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60235", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "The most important part of writing good work implicate choosing a good subject, leaving nothing open to misinterpretation as vague work confuses readers while disrupting your productivity.\n\nA good work provides clear, precise, and comprehensive information. This means that it can be read and understood immediately. To ensure comprehension, it should be avoided to use acronyms, multi-syllable words, and unexplained technical terms.\n\nStrive to thoroughly understand the tasks you’re writing about so you can describe them in a few words. Brevity equals simplicity. Ensure readers have easy access to it because failing to make it accessible will leave your entire efforts unknown.\n\nMake it consistent with the use of clear methodology, terminology, and layout. Your work should be accurate, helpful, and credible. Let it match the reality of your topic. Rather than offering textual information, consider including visuals – readers are often more comfortable consulting visual media than multi-page texts.\n\nTo conclude, bear in mind that developing good work should never lie with a single person. The best-written processes include the input of several stakeholders to ensure all of the above characteristics are met." }, { "answer_id": 66554, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "My advice is that you're putting far too much on yourself. You're trying to be fast, good and pantsing, all with pretty minimal writing experience.\n\nYou need to decide which of these things you need to focus on most - the word count target is useful, but as you've found out, forcing yourself to write can be counterproductive in terms of quality.\n\nIf you're a pantser, then you need to be willing to throw work away. It just happens that way. Even a planner has to accept that work will get thrown away sometimes. Writing is rewriting, as the saying goes.\n\nEveryone is different in their approach. Part of improving as a writer is practice, but also better understanding your own process.\n\nPerhaps you can choose a new set of goals for yourself - \"finishing my book to a high level before autumn\" sounds unrealistic. If you're willing to just bang out a draft, fine. That's a perfectly good process, but you need to accept that means you'll need to go back and redraft it multiple times before it's anywhere near 'complete'. (Novels are never completed, only abandoned, as another saying goes)\n\nA possible alternative is to accept that what you're doing right now is practicing writing a novel. So it's all about you improving as a writer, learning about what works best for you, and that any story you get out of it may or may not be any good. (Hell, even Neil Gaiman says not all of his work)\n\nIf it helps at all, it's way easier to edit and improve something that's already on the page, than write something from scratch. If you can get even a bad draft out, you have years ahead of you to get it into shape as a finished novel." }, { "answer_id": 66555, "author": "codeMonkey", "author_id": 40325, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/40325", "pm_score": 5, "selected": true, "text": "You Don't\n---------\n\nYou can't write \"finished draft\" quality work the first time, every time. No one can.\n\nAim for Adequate, then Edit\n---------------------------\n\nInstead, you can write adequate work, and then edit it into shape.\n\nMy suggestion is to lower your word count goal, and spend some portion of your writing time re-working the previous day's work. Or pick one day a week for all editing and no new progress. Or whatever works for you.\n\nDon't Discard Work\n------------------\n\nDon't \"discard an entire large section of finished writing\" - find the kernel of goodness in it and fix it. Figure out which idea, or turn of phrase, or interaction is good, and rework that section to make it even better.\n\nIn fact, **discard the idea of \"finished writing.\"** Art is never finished, it just arrives at the point of diminishing returns for the artist's efforts, and they abandon it." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66551", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60224/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66559, "author": "Divizna", "author_id": 56731, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/56731", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "It's a bit of a clumsy phrasing, I guess because \"next\" is usually paired with something countable. Perhaps \"further evolution\" or \"future evolution\" would flow better.\n\nBut it's definitely not redundant, and evolution is not \"something that comes next\", it's a process that takes time. If we're talking biological evolution, that's been going on for some four billion years already. It makes sense to distinguish whether we're talking about evolution from now on (or from another given point on) or about the evolution that brought us to this point." }, { "answer_id": 66560, "author": "Flater", "author_id": 29635, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/29635", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "The goal here isn't to explain that there is a progression. I agree that's what evolution already entails.\n\nThe goal here is to *move the frame of conversation* to a more evolved state than what was previously being discussed. For example:\n\n> \n> First, we made wheels from stone. We then realized that we should build them from wood. The next evolution was so innovative that we're still using it to this very day: rubber.\n> \n> \n> \n\n\"Next\" is being used here to get the reader to shift their focus to the improvement that we used *after* we moved away from wooden wheels. Without it, the reader will still be in the mindset of wooden wheels, which make the end of the sentence confusing. \n\n\"Next\" is a hint for the reader (who has not yet read the whole sentence) that we're not talking about wood anymore.\n\nPedantically, it should be \"the next **stage/step of the** evolution\" but I'm inclined to allow the omission here as \"evolution\" is informally understood to indicate the discrete steps on the path of evolution." }, { "answer_id": 66562, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Next evolution is not redundant.\nBoth biological and product evolution occurs in discrete steps. In biology, it is specific mutations of genes that modify old functions or introduce new ones.\n\nIn products, like the car, there are also specific intentional changes. Before Haqry Fahd introduced the cast iron engine block, pistons and cylinders for the internal combustion engine were made from Rods in Pipes all lashed together and held in place by steel straps and bolts. This was so unreliable that cars shook themselves apart as the engine ran, and seldom traveled a mile without having to be fixed. The cast iron engine block replaced all of that at once.\n\nThe same thing applies to scientific theories. There was no gradual transition from Newton's Theory of Gravity to Einstein's General Relativity. Erase the blackboard and start over.\n\nThe same thing happened with Quantum Physics, a full blown restart.\n\n\"Next Evolution\", especially in the intellectual context of theories and other human inventions, is entirely appropriate.\n\nBut I would prefer a more accurate term: the \"Next **Revolution**\"." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66557", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59188/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66566, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "First chapters are both tricky and important...but there's good news too. You don't need to nail down your 1st chapter until late in the writing / editing process.\n\nAny of your proposed starting points could work (although generally avoid prologues unless you can really make them sing) - and if they don't, well you can change to another one later on. So just start writing wherever takes your fancy.\n\n'Finding the story', and 'Polishing the story' are very different processes. If it helps you to start writing as early in your story as possible, then writing through until the end, that effort isn't wasted, even if you end up cutting parts of it.\n\nI would just add on the subject of first chapters, the key isn't necessarily action (which is meaningless unless the reader cares about the character/stakes) - it's HOOKS. Capturing the reader's attention, getting them to ask questions and seek answers. An intriguing mystery or an unresolved question can be better than blazing gunfire. You're making promises to the reader at this point about what the book will offer them if they keep going.\n\nA good example of this is John Le Carre - read the first page of any his books and you'll find it littered with hooks, incidental details and questions that draw the reader in." }, { "answer_id": 66578, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 2, "selected": true, "text": "I'll add my 2¢\n\nStories begin on a status quo.\n------------------------------\n\nYour story is set in a post-apocalypse – maybe a current-apocalypse – so your status quo at the start of the story is *precarious*.\n\nI'll make a few assumptions:\n\n1. The pandemic has already started.\n2. The village has policies to keep the virus from spreading (which fail obviously).\n3. The origin of how/where the virus started is unimportant at this point in the story (if ever).\n\nWhy you don't want a Prolog\n---------------------------\n\nPrologs are 100% factual because they are foundational knowledge that comes directly from the only true authority: the Author.\n\nYour genre/setting is about the breakdown of society, the loss of law and order, and the end of anything reliable. The 'facts' that you clarify in your prolog work against your genre and setting.\n\nEarly in the COVID pandemic, the origin of the virus was learned to be a random (but normal) mutation of an animal-virus spread through a food market. There is no literary payoff from this piece of trivia. **IF there was any moral lesson to be learned** it was something about the Earth's shrinking wildlife habitats and the inevitable march towards globalization – bla bla....\n\nThere's nothing special about this origin story, it is the same origin of almost every viral disease, hence *swine* flu, *chicken* pox..., HIV originated in apes. Viruses mutate every day. The fact that people politicized it, and conspiracy-alized it, is far more interesting (story-wise) than the truth.\n\nA factual prolog would render all that drama moot. It's like telling the reader whodunnit and then asking them to enjoy the detective solving the mystery when they already know the red herrings.\n\nHouse of cards\n--------------\n\nThe *precarious* status quo of your village is going to fall apart like a house of cards.\n\nPeople do disastrously stupid things when they panic. They reach for quack cures and superstition, they reject sane authority and experience, they single-out the usual suspects to scapegoat, and they horde toilet paper.\n\nYou will have characters that do ALL these things, but as the author you don't want to tip your hand which characters are right/wrong because *everyone* is going to panic and change their routine. In a dystopia *everyone* does the wrong thing – people are unfairly punished for doing the right thing – and there are no clear answers because everything is morally grey and about survival.\n\nI agree with Phil S' suggestion to **sketch-in the 1st chapter**, and re-write it once you know your major plot points.\n\nStranger in a strange land\n--------------------------\n\nStart with your outsider protagonist entering the village and encountering world building: arbitrary rules that subjugate the already marginalized, quack cures and street preachers, and $1000 rolls of toilet paper.\n\nGo back and add some of those 'plot hooks': those shaky pillars on which the village is currently standing which will spectacularly collapse later: unjust authoritarianism, a faulty belief about the virus, pressure from the local industries to trade-as-usual, and unhelpful counter-narratives from the fringes.\n\nAll these things will help the village appear foreign and hostile. Readers should feel apprehension about the village, and familiarity with the protagonist who is our witness. Ironic because she is bringing the danger to them.\n\nIf the rules feel arbitrary and draconian, readers will empathize with her lying to get in. We don't need to know her backstory yet, or *why* she's lying. We especially should not know she's bringing disaster. Focus on her immediate antagonists (unsympathetic guards? an invasive medical check? security theater?), and the conflict of how she's going to guile her way inside.\n\nLeave room for disaster\n-----------------------\n\nIt may be necessary to imply her need to be *inside* the village (or her need to *not be outside* the village) to add a ticking clock to her fc conflict. But naturally, this is not what she says at the gate so there's no need to frontload her bigger conflict that isn't in evidence yet.\n\nAs hostile as this strange land appears now, everything will get worse over the course of the story, so keep the opening conflict immediate and personal to her. Show her as sympathetic underdog, so the reader is on board with her immediate goal.\n\nIntroduce other important (to her) characters and local conflicts that will complicate her story –– but just introductions. She does not know their significance so she will make selfish decisions which she may regret later. *Example: She guiles her way past a guard with a sob story, someone she will need later who won't trust her because of this earlier lie.*\n\nSince she is essentially a different character in the first conflict than the one we'll get to know, readers will give her the benefit of assuming her underdog status justifies her behavior. We should celebrate her earned 'win' and accept her as the story's hero.\n\nDiscovering later that she has serious moral flaws, and is culpable for the deaths she brings, aligns with the genre. Readers experience a rug pull, or a slow-burn negative arc, as other characters experience their reliable world falling apart and friends betraying them." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66564", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60232/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66568, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 6, "selected": true, "text": "> \n> I hope to one day have a book published by a major publishing house.\n> \n> \n> ... most women aren't into this type of material.\n> \n> \n> \n\n**You are not alone.** I suggest you google *400,000 word novel* (roughly your estimated length).\n\nOther people have 400,000 word unpublished novels asking for advice. The answers are exactly what you don't want to hear (same as here) but they will drop statistics and specific book titles to back up their answer.\n\nwhere do I go from here?\n------------------------\n\n1. **Write for yourself, with no intent to get published** –– which is frankly what you are doing now. Don't chase commercial success as an\nauthor (financial success is almost unheard of). Write until you\nalone are satisfied.\n2. **Cut your book in half, and then half again.** Most genre novels do not exceed 100,000 words –– and plenty of publishing house readers\nsay that a book that is too long will be eliminated, un-read. It\nwon't even be considered.\n3. **Partition the story into a trilogy**, or tetralogy. You will have enough words for 4 books. (If you do not have enough *story* for 4\nbooks, that's a problem.)\n4. **Get a cost estimate of self-publishing a 1000-page novel** (again, roughly your estimated length). Put a monetary pricetag on the\nexpense of creating the physical book. DO NOT self-publish, as you\nsay you have little interest in socially promoting, and you doubt\nthe style will appeal to a broad enough market to recoup the cost\nper book. (Ergo, go back and consider #1)\n\nHiring an editor?\n-----------------\n\n> \n> There's talk about how expensive getting a professional editor can\n> be—the longer the manuscript, the higher the commissioning cost.\n> \n> \n> \n\nYou should not consider hiring an editor until you've cut your book down to 200,000 words or less. You will be paying them to cut the book down to it's *best* 100,000 words, so it is not automatically rejected from the publisher's slush pile.\n\nIf this is not acceptable, you simply do not have a commercial novel. This book needs to fit inside the delivery pipe, which includes publishing costs, shipping, promotion, shelf space (even if digital it will require investment to make it sellable). It's a business.\n\nCompromise, or don't.\n---------------------\n\nThat said, there is no reason not to **write for your own satisfaction, tell the story as you like**, and worry about publication later (if at all).\n\nIt doesn't sound like you have any interest in reaching a large reader base, or 'selling out' to more closely align with popular taste.\n\nYou may change your mind once this story is out of you. You may feel you can edit it down, or you may discover you have a smaller, more sellable novel inside you, and start that project with a shorter page-length in mind." }, { "answer_id": 66571, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 3, "selected": false, "text": "Just to add to Wetcircuit's excellent answer (which I 100% agree with and won't reiterate) here's a few thoughts about why your novel is so long:\n\n1. Is the book definitely \"one story\"? As in, a single main plot, with a beginning, a middle and an end? Or are you trying to write effectively a series length plot?\n2. Have you looked at critique groups? There's lots of good sites out there (see associated questions/answers on here) and you can get feedback from other aspiring authors \"for free\". (you have to put work in for them too)\n3. Are you writing down everything that comes into your head, or do you have a plan for the book? Neither is right or wrong, just bear in mind if you're discovery writing that you'll need to decide what really needs to be included later. If you're a planner...well you need to replan if you want ONE book out of this.\n4. Depending on your writing style, most manuscripts will lose 10-15% of their wordcount from draft stage purely in \"filler\" words, unnecessary action tags etc, without losing any actual content. Obviously you can achieve far more with cutting scenes and subplots. Either you're very verbose and will lose more, or your story is far too big.\n\nHope this helps!" }, { "answer_id": 66576, "author": "codeMonkey", "author_id": 40325, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/40325", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Edit Yourself, and Writing Circles\n----------------------------------\n\nPaying someone to edit your work is hardly a *requirement* of traditional publishing. You can critically engage your own work and it will improve.\n\nLikewise, you can find other writers in your community and critique each other's writing - which I've heard called a Writing Circle. Reading their work critically will exercise the \"editing muscles\" and make it easier to improve yourself.\n\nAnd since they have a little more distance from your writing, they will help you find flaws in it that you'd overlook.\n\nClean As Bone\n-------------\n\n> \n> You want to write a sentence as clean as a bone. -- Joqes Bicdwoz, on writing\n> \n> \n> \n\nYour question here is rather... wordy. Assuming it's representative of your other writing, there is a lot of cutting that you can do to get your work in progress to a reasonable length.\n\nAs an exercise, you might consider how you would get the heart of your question across in the minimum amount of words.\n\nI think that the essence of your question is: You're looking for a low cost way to get critiques of your work, but the online communities you are aware of don't seem like good fits. That's the question I attempted to answer." }, { "answer_id": 66582, "author": "Simon Crase", "author_id": 54909, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/54909", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Is there possibly a short story, or even a novella, somewhere in your 400,000 words? Or can you write a shorter work about some of your characters? This might help you test the water to see whether the punters will pay to read your tome.\n\nMaybe be brutal. Toss it all, and write a short work based on what you have learned writing The Big One?" }, { "answer_id": 66585, "author": "user60287", "author_id": 60287, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60287", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Logic would dictate that you should either edit it yourself, get someone to edit it on the cheap, or try to write a shorter book.\n\nFsubk Hirbeyt cut *Dune* down to about 125 pages in its original edition. He made a classic. You could emulate a master." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66567", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/48978/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66580, "author": "wetcircuit", "author_id": 23253, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/23253", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Revenge is tragedy\n------------------\n\nI think you may be mixing genres. Your story is not about a 'hero' who makes measurable gains.\n\nIt is about a grieving man in a downward spiral.\n\nYour anti-hero is becoming pure villain. Like a tragedy, the stakes (not gains) are that he is losing ground but refusing to take the L, and digging in deeper.\n\nIf he does not course-correct, he will crash and burn. Everyone sees this – the reader, the other characters, the psycho-killer – everyone sees it but him.\n\nSlippery Slope\n--------------\n\nYour protagonist believes the only way justice can work is if the killer feels some level of the horror that he's caused.\n\nWhich is a fallacy because the killer is a psychopath who is incapable of feeling what the MC wants. In a battle about feelings and remorse, the killer just doesn't have anything to lose.\n\nYou will need to raise the stakes with each 'slip'. Your MC has a downward character arc where he is lowering his morals, and he is not feeling better. He needs something (friends, career, a dog) that can be lost or irrevocably damaged because of his behavior. He needs to become fixated on his goal to the point he jeopardizes everything else important to life.\n\nFor the MC, it is not a game, it is his faith in a morally just world. His entire belief-system is shattered (it's more than just a girlfriend in a refrigerator). But, he still believes he can accomplish his goal. Once Psycho is broken, he can stop.\n\nVillain ascendant\n-----------------\n\nOnce the psychopath figures out there is a game to play, he will exploit the MC's emotions to get ammo to twist the knife. Psycho will play the victim and get a restraining order, he will get the agent suspended, he will gaslight publicly and taunt in private.\n\nPsycho has already crossed all the moral boundaries, and survived – perhaps even feels morally superior because of what he's been able to do. It's actually amusing to watch the MC struggle with these moral boundaries because they are so obvious, but eventually this gets boring and psycho will need to help the MC through provocation, false remorse, and head games.\n\nOn some level, psycho understands that 'winning' this game means getting the agent to murder him – but as long as he's still alive, the agent hasn't really crossed the final line and is still the loser.\n\nIf the MC fails, the psycho wins. If the MC wins, the psycho (morally) wins.\n\nThey become similar, and their goals are entwined, because each is trying to make the other more like himself. The only way for the MC to not lose is he has to pull himself out of the downward spiral and accept the grief that he can't do anything about.\n\nTorture Porn\n------------\n\nYour MC is an amateur trying to impress someone far more experienced.\n\nEvery theatrical flourish the MC adds, Psycho has already considered it, tried it, and rejected it.\n\nPsycho can read the 'tells' like an expert gambler because he is the authority here, even when the MC appears to have the upper hand.\n\nYour torture scenes are not about 'torture' they are the MC's bluffs that (slipping down the slope) become steadily less safe, less justifiable, less about the goal and more about lashing out at someone who hurt him.\n\nThat suggests each of these scenes has a turnabout, where the MC's goal is subverted or used against him. The MC does not 'win' these scenes – if he did he would stop." }, { "answer_id": 66589, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "Revenge is an \"eye for an eye\" morality; or even worse, \"two eyes for one eye\".\n\nIt is not hard to make this convincing; it is not necessarily universal, but quite common in people. Including myself, in extreme circumstances. I've been friends with raped women, and women that were victims of pedophilia, and I'm all for the death sentence for people that destroy lives. For these women, many consider the person they were before they were raped effectively killed. They are not going to \"get over it\".\n\nFor your story, if you don't want to kill the villain, the revenge can be worse than death: Suffering the rest of their life.\n\nIf you want to go over the top, that's the goal of the main character; to permanently disable the villain. Blind him. Take his hands. Take his feet. Take his hearing. Take all his teeth. Take his tongue. Take all his money. Put him in a cage, restrained so he cannot kill himself. But leave him alive, insane and suffering.\n\nThe main character's revenge is to cause a lifetime of misery, worse than death.\n\nAnd what's the price, for your main character? I'm not sure, but perhaps he realizes he is even more cruel and evil than the villain." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66574", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59901/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66591, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Read, read, read, then read more.\n\nRead stories once for pleasure. Then, read the same story again critically. Take notice of your own reactions to the text. Where in the text do you find yourself filling in imagery from your own life? What is it about a specific line of text that engages your imagination? Why is some line of t ext in the story? What purpose(s) does it serve? Why did the author decide to write a sentence a particular way?\n\nIf you can think critically about another writers text, you’ll think critically about your own stories, as well. Then, you'll gain a tool to assess if your similes are appropriate for the character or the voice and tone of the work-in-progress.\n\nAlso, you'll gain confidence in your own writing. You'll develop counter (or supporting) arguments for that inner editor telling you what you've written isn't good enough.\n\nIts important to read professional writers stories and novice writers stories. The professionals will show you how to do it well, while the novice writers will show you what ‘mistakes’ you are also making." }, { "answer_id": 66592, "author": "Mary", "author_id": 44281, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/44281", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Have you tried revising them? You may discover it is your best technique to get the story down and then work on the prose." }, { "answer_id": 66597, "author": "user60320", "author_id": 60320, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60320", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "I think EDL is absolutely right. Reading a lot, and reading critically , will definitely help.\n\nI think, for me at least, the key to *flow* is figuring out the timing.\n\nFor example:\n\n(Quick)*They went inside the house.*\n\nVs.\n\n(Slow)*They crept along the dusty sidewalk, the sun flinging their shadows in front of their feet. The house loomed, impossibly large. They gathered under its gloom, and reached a hand for the knocker…*\n\nSometimes the former is the right choice, sometimes the latter. I think the key to flow is knowing when to speed up time, and get your characters inside the house already, and when to slow it down, and build some tension.\n\nI think good flow is when you “zoom in” to moments, by slowing them down and using detail, appropriately. Ie, when the story requires a heavy pause. And I think a lot of writing seems childish, as you put it, when it zooms into moments that do absolutely nothing for the story.\n\nSee if you can polish your already written stories by finding where the story needs no pause, and you can shorten, and cut down in those place. By contrast, the places where you do take your time will start to stand out.\n\nThe variation between the parts that are tell-heavy and move quickly, and the show-heavy parts that take a moment to build tension, will really help with flow.\n\nHope that helps!" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66590", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60232/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66595, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "1. Do your research. Make sure you know commonly used words, phrases etc from that time (sprinkle them in liberally, in keeping with your POV character and dialogue)\n2. Do more research. What types of materials and technology did they have? What colours were popular? Look at images from the time for inspiration. Again, tint your text with them, without going overboard.\n3. As weird as it sounds, sunny days and high life are a perfect fit with murder mystery. Think \"Death on the Nile\". Contrast is key. Sunny days and dark nights. The sun casts long shadows. An idilyic setting with a few discordant parts can create unease very effectively. Another person to read up on for this is HP Lovecraft.\n4. Most important! While you should try to convey aesthetic in your writing from first draft, make it at the heart, it's not something you need to perfect on the first pass. (Nothing is, really!) You can layer it on and add detail as you redraft and edit." }, { "answer_id": 66596, "author": "user60320", "author_id": 60320, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60320", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Vintage is very broad… but regardless, maybe see what the hottest published murder mysteries were in 1950? Read those, maybe highlight a few passages that seem to strike you. Everything from describing character’s dress, to cooking/eating utensils, to the vocabulary that was used more predominantly back then?" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66594", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59859/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66595, "author": "Phil S", "author_id": 52375, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/52375", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "1. Do your research. Make sure you know commonly used words, phrases etc from that time (sprinkle them in liberally, in keeping with your POV character and dialogue)\n2. Do more research. What types of materials and technology did they have? What colours were popular? Look at images from the time for inspiration. Again, tint your text with them, without going overboard.\n3. As weird as it sounds, sunny days and high life are a perfect fit with murder mystery. Think \"Death on the Nile\". Contrast is key. Sunny days and dark nights. The sun casts long shadows. An idilyic setting with a few discordant parts can create unease very effectively. Another person to read up on for this is HP Lovecraft.\n4. Most important! While you should try to convey aesthetic in your writing from first draft, make it at the heart, it's not something you need to perfect on the first pass. (Nothing is, really!) You can layer it on and add detail as you redraft and edit." }, { "answer_id": 66596, "author": "user60320", "author_id": 60320, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60320", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Vintage is very broad… but regardless, maybe see what the hottest published murder mysteries were in 1950? Read those, maybe highlight a few passages that seem to strike you. Everything from describing character’s dress, to cooking/eating utensils, to the vocabulary that was used more predominantly back then?" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66602", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60323/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66608, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "As the author, you don't need to be concerned with obtaining permission to use the name of a city, building, or whatever.\n\nThis is a concern for a publisher -- which might be you if you self-publish. The situation that would matter to a publisher is if the author is using a trade-marked name without permission.\n\nWhile it is very likely that Lubbock Arboretum has trade-marked its name -- to protect its brand if they sell merch, this protection is very specific as to the form. As in, Lubbock Arboretum on a hat or a tee-shirt or hoody. Maybe with some iconography. Since they have pay to register and maintain the trademark on each and every form.\n\nConsider the Louvre. If you were to make and sell unlicensed \"I <3 the Louvre\" totes, you could find yourself on the wrong end of an infringement lawsuit, but you can mention the Louvre in your novel or short story without concern for infringement.\n\nIf your story brought discredit on the Louvre or the Lubbock Arboretum in a way that a reasonable person might believe is true, then you could get sued. But that wouldn't be for infringement but for brand diminishment -- egregiously hurting their earning potential with false and misleading statements." }, { "answer_id": 66618, "author": "Jay", "author_id": 4489, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/4489", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "If by a \"place\" you mean a city, state, country, etc, then no. No one owns the name \"Texas\" that you could get permission from if you tried.\n\nIf by a \"place\" you mean an organization, like the headquarters of a company, things are a little more complicated.\n\nThere are two potential issues: libel and trademark.\n\nIf you portray a real organization as doing something illegal or scandalous, they could sue you for libel. Whether they could win depends on a variety of factors. 1. Did they really do what you said they did? If so, in the US it's case closed, truth is an absolute defense against libel. In other countries, like the UK, that's not the case. 2. Would a reasonable person believe you were saying this organization really did this, or is it obviously fiction? That can be tricky.\n\nIn general, the purpose of trademark law is to protect buyer and seller against the buyer being tricked into thinking this was the \"real\" product when really it's a copy. Like, if you made your own soft drink and called it \"Coca Cola\", and sold it in cans that resembled real Coca Cola cans, the Coke company could sue you and would almost surely win. You're tricking people into buying your product by making them think it's Coca Cola. But if you write a book and in it you say, \"Bob drank a Coke\", no sane person is going to confuse your book with a soft drink. No one is going to think that because your book includes the word \"Coke\" that therefore it is a soft drink.\n\nYes, sometimes this can get ambiguous. If your whole book is about Coca Cola and you have a picture of a Coke can on the cover, etc, Coke might be able to argue that you're giving people the impression that your book is an \"official\" Coca Cola product. They can afford better lawyers than you so maybe they'd win that one." }, { "answer_id": 66644, "author": "user482877", "author_id": 60280, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60280", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I would absolutely avoid depicting any non-public place, non-public building or private company in any way differently from the most positive things anyone would expect to happen there in reality.\n\nThat is, if your story takes place at a private Arboretum and your protagonist goes there to look at the trees and meets a nice person there, no problem.\n\nBut if in your story that Arboretum is a place where dragons live, that is potentionally problematic. Because the owner of the Arboretum place might not want his business to be associated with dragons, no matter how positive *you* think your portrayal of the place was.\n\nPhotographers have to get a location release by the owner of a place if they want to commercially use photos they took of that location, and this is no different: You are commercially using someones private property, so absolutely avoid anything that can be construed as being less than positive.\n\nPublic places, state owned property, countries, and so on you can do whatever you want with." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66606", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60329/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66608, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "As the author, you don't need to be concerned with obtaining permission to use the name of a city, building, or whatever.\n\nThis is a concern for a publisher -- which might be you if you self-publish. The situation that would matter to a publisher is if the author is using a trade-marked name without permission.\n\nWhile it is very likely that Lubbock Arboretum has trade-marked its name -- to protect its brand if they sell merch, this protection is very specific as to the form. As in, Lubbock Arboretum on a hat or a tee-shirt or hoody. Maybe with some iconography. Since they have pay to register and maintain the trademark on each and every form.\n\nConsider the Louvre. If you were to make and sell unlicensed \"I <3 the Louvre\" totes, you could find yourself on the wrong end of an infringement lawsuit, but you can mention the Louvre in your novel or short story without concern for infringement.\n\nIf your story brought discredit on the Louvre or the Lubbock Arboretum in a way that a reasonable person might believe is true, then you could get sued. But that wouldn't be for infringement but for brand diminishment -- egregiously hurting their earning potential with false and misleading statements." }, { "answer_id": 66618, "author": "Jay", "author_id": 4489, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/4489", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "If by a \"place\" you mean a city, state, country, etc, then no. No one owns the name \"Texas\" that you could get permission from if you tried.\n\nIf by a \"place\" you mean an organization, like the headquarters of a company, things are a little more complicated.\n\nThere are two potential issues: libel and trademark.\n\nIf you portray a real organization as doing something illegal or scandalous, they could sue you for libel. Whether they could win depends on a variety of factors. 1. Did they really do what you said they did? If so, in the US it's case closed, truth is an absolute defense against libel. In other countries, like the UK, that's not the case. 2. Would a reasonable person believe you were saying this organization really did this, or is it obviously fiction? That can be tricky.\n\nIn general, the purpose of trademark law is to protect buyer and seller against the buyer being tricked into thinking this was the \"real\" product when really it's a copy. Like, if you made your own soft drink and called it \"Coca Cola\", and sold it in cans that resembled real Coca Cola cans, the Coke company could sue you and would almost surely win. You're tricking people into buying your product by making them think it's Coca Cola. But if you write a book and in it you say, \"Bob drank a Coke\", no sane person is going to confuse your book with a soft drink. No one is going to think that because your book includes the word \"Coke\" that therefore it is a soft drink.\n\nYes, sometimes this can get ambiguous. If your whole book is about Coca Cola and you have a picture of a Coke can on the cover, etc, Coke might be able to argue that you're giving people the impression that your book is an \"official\" Coca Cola product. They can afford better lawyers than you so maybe they'd win that one." }, { "answer_id": 66644, "author": "user482877", "author_id": 60280, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60280", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "I would absolutely avoid depicting any non-public place, non-public building or private company in any way differently from the most positive things anyone would expect to happen there in reality.\n\nThat is, if your story takes place at a private Arboretum and your protagonist goes there to look at the trees and meets a nice person there, no problem.\n\nBut if in your story that Arboretum is a place where dragons live, that is potentionally problematic. Because the owner of the Arboretum place might not want his business to be associated with dragons, no matter how positive *you* think your portrayal of the place was.\n\nPhotographers have to get a location release by the owner of a place if they want to commercially use photos they took of that location, and this is no different: You are commercially using someones private property, so absolutely avoid anything that can be construed as being less than positive.\n\nPublic places, state owned property, countries, and so on you can do whatever you want with." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66609", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60232/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66614, "author": "user60320", "author_id": 60320, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60320", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I would say that you should go ahead and start writing your first book BUT, as you go along in your first draft take notes for second and third volume. This can really help with creating fun mysteries/questions for the reader, too. Think about how certain things can be introduced and hinted at in the first volume, to then fully develop in the second or third. This is one of my favorite tactics in fantasy novels, and one, as a reader, I fall for every time. An intriguing world-building detail gets mentioned over and over again in book one, but never gets fully explained. Then, it becomes critical in book two. Then finally, it gets explained only in the final volume.\n\nI also think if you have any character-driven stuff in your first book, you would almost have to finish that, to know where to take your character in the second volume and beyond?\n\nFinally, if you’re itching to start already, I would say that it’s probably the right time to start. You can always return to research/plotting if you get stuck." }, { "answer_id": 66617, "author": "Jay", "author_id": 4489, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/4489", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "I can't imagine someone saying that it is BAD to plan ahead. The serious question is, Is it necessary?\n\nTo some extent, I think that answer is \"yes\". I've read some multi-volume series where the author clearly did not plan ahead or changed his mind, and so in later volumes he has to explain away things he said in earlier volumes.\n\nJust for example: Philip Jose Farmer's Riverboat series is about a world where everyone who has ever lived is resurrected to live on this planet. In the first volume there are people from the future. But then in a later volume -- WARNING! minor spoiler -- he says that the world was destroyed before these people lived, and that anyone claiming to be from the future is really a spy from the people who set this whole thing up, and the way they recognize each other is by claiming to be from the future. Ok, fine. Except ... one of the main characters was from the future, so now he has to explain how he is NOT a spy. He tells us that the person calling himself by this name is really an imposter. But ... why would one of the spies impersonate this particular person? There's no apparent reason for it. He was just trying to patch up having changed his mind. (Also, the character appears to be a stand-in for the author. Like, the character's name in the book is Peter Jairus Frigate. Note the same initials as the author's name. And various other similarities. So apparently he didn't want to turn HIMSELF into one of the villains.)\n\nI had a few other examples in mind but I won't take up space on them. Hopefully you get the idea.\n\nSo I'd say: Plan enough that you don't have to backtrack later. It isn't necessary to write a full plot synopsis for each book. Just make sure you know where you're going. In a one-volume story, if you change your mind, you can always go back and change something. That's the beauty of modern word processing. But in a multi-volume story, the first volume may already be published." }, { "answer_id": 66621, "author": "kmunky", "author_id": 15134, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15134", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I started writing my series on Book Two. I didn't know at the time it was going to be a series. A few chapters in I realized I didn't really have the main character's voice, so I decided to pause on the novel and write a short story to get to know him better. That \"short story\" is 130k into the first draft, and as the supporting characters started to talk and add their ingredients to the soup, I found out that there is story that needs to be told to get to Two, so what began as \"a book\" is now Book Three of what will be a Quintology. Probably.\n\n\"Pantsing\" (i.e. writing by the seat of your pants) is no less valid a way to write than any other, easily illustrated via a quick google search. The specifics of how, why and what are up to you. There are no rules to writing. Are there pros and cons? Of course. Don't sweat them in this case though, because you'll figure it out as you go, and one of the advantages is its fluidity. The story tells itself, or perhaps better: the characters tell their own stories.\n\nBut if you're like me, I still need a roadmap. \n\nSo throughout my own writing journey of 180k words in my series, there is another 45k of planning: timelines, character histories, research topics, etc. I also found now and then that I would get overwhelmed by the tedium, or worried that I was \"overdoing it\". (I realized there is no such thing, btw, you will naturally put in as much work as you need, and don't let anybody tell you that you need more or less.) But there was a simple fix for that: When you get bored, switch gears.\n\nBecause boredom is the death of a story. \n\n**If you don't enjoying telling your story, then your readers won't enjoy reading it. Full stop.** This is not to say that writing is easy, but the work of it should be gratifying despite the inherent tedium and monotony. It took me six months and at least a dozen tries to write a chapter where I was struggling to describe an operatic song to the reader. After three or four failed attempts, I considered ditching it completely; *this is too hard, I'm just not good enough a writer to do this*. Whenever it got too tedious, I just stopped writing that selection, only returned to it when I felt ready for another try, or new inspiration struck. It honed my workflow and ultimately made me a better writer. And the beauty of it is that **the reader will never know**. They'll read right through it smooth as butter.\n\nBecause writing a book is not specifically a linear task. \n\nWrite three chapters ahead so that you can go back and foreshadow properly. Move chapters around if you need to. Add some. Remove some. Or characters. Or books. The sweet spot I think is when your characters start telling you their story, and when that happens, your job is to listen to them and be their voice. I would go so far as to say that if you're writing linearly, you're likely missing opportunities. And if you did manage to plan out an entire series to the letter before you start writing prose, you'd probably be the first person who's ever done it. :)\n\nThat might be an exaggeration. Planning is no less viable than pantsing, and I am a character writer moreso than a plot writer. But no matter; at the end of the day:\n\n* Never mind the rules\n* Make up your own\n* Break or change as needed\n* Enjoy your book" }, { "answer_id": 66622, "author": "Rogue", "author_id": 60349, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60349", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Yes and no. I started writing a book and ended up with so many ideas it turned into a series. I am finding that I have written myself holes that I have to go back and fix later on but over all you don't have to plan it out first but you might write the first book and then plan the next two at the same time. It is up to you." }, { "answer_id": 66627, "author": "Erk", "author_id": 10826, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/10826", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "I used the [Snowflake Method](https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/) to plan a multi novel series.\n\nIn short, the Snowflake Method consists of ten steps. The first is a one sentence summary of the book and the tenth is the first draft. Each step fleshes out the story more and more.\n\nI planned my novels by first doing step 1 for all books, then step 2 and so on to step 4. (There's one Snowflake—ten steps—for each book.) Then I did steps 5–6 for the first few books. And finally the rest of the steps for the first book (i.e. wrote the first draft of the first book).\n\nHaving a framework like the Snowflake helped me do a rough sketch of all the books and doing it a step at a time made mistakes easy to fix and changes easy to handle.\n\nI recommend stopping somewhere around steps 4–6 because writing each book will also teach you a ton about the story so things will be different after each book anyway, but having done this scaffolding the need for changes are less destructive.\n\nSo, in your case I'd say, flesh out the other books a bit, but don't go over board with it.\n\nIf you decide to try the Snowflake you might want to do steps 1–4 for all books and then 5–6 for books 1 & 2 and finally go all the way for book 1. Or stop earlier or later. Maybe you feel you just want to do steps 1–2?\n\nDepending on how detailed your outline is, it might correspond with steps 8 or 9 in the Snowflake with character bios being steps 3, 5 and 7. You may still want to go back to step 1 to nail down things like what the story really is about, what the plot points are, etc.\n\nAnother variant is to just do very important characters in books 2–3 and then go back and add more characters once you get to each book.\n\nOr you could just read the linked article on the Snowflake and translate it to your method of outlining or add to your method." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66610", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60232/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66614, "author": "user60320", "author_id": 60320, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60320", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I would say that you should go ahead and start writing your first book BUT, as you go along in your first draft take notes for second and third volume. This can really help with creating fun mysteries/questions for the reader, too. Think about how certain things can be introduced and hinted at in the first volume, to then fully develop in the second or third. This is one of my favorite tactics in fantasy novels, and one, as a reader, I fall for every time. An intriguing world-building detail gets mentioned over and over again in book one, but never gets fully explained. Then, it becomes critical in book two. Then finally, it gets explained only in the final volume.\n\nI also think if you have any character-driven stuff in your first book, you would almost have to finish that, to know where to take your character in the second volume and beyond?\n\nFinally, if you’re itching to start already, I would say that it’s probably the right time to start. You can always return to research/plotting if you get stuck." }, { "answer_id": 66617, "author": "Jay", "author_id": 4489, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/4489", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "I can't imagine someone saying that it is BAD to plan ahead. The serious question is, Is it necessary?\n\nTo some extent, I think that answer is \"yes\". I've read some multi-volume series where the author clearly did not plan ahead or changed his mind, and so in later volumes he has to explain away things he said in earlier volumes.\n\nJust for example: Philip Jose Farmer's Riverboat series is about a world where everyone who has ever lived is resurrected to live on this planet. In the first volume there are people from the future. But then in a later volume -- WARNING! minor spoiler -- he says that the world was destroyed before these people lived, and that anyone claiming to be from the future is really a spy from the people who set this whole thing up, and the way they recognize each other is by claiming to be from the future. Ok, fine. Except ... one of the main characters was from the future, so now he has to explain how he is NOT a spy. He tells us that the person calling himself by this name is really an imposter. But ... why would one of the spies impersonate this particular person? There's no apparent reason for it. He was just trying to patch up having changed his mind. (Also, the character appears to be a stand-in for the author. Like, the character's name in the book is Peter Jairus Frigate. Note the same initials as the author's name. And various other similarities. So apparently he didn't want to turn HIMSELF into one of the villains.)\n\nI had a few other examples in mind but I won't take up space on them. Hopefully you get the idea.\n\nSo I'd say: Plan enough that you don't have to backtrack later. It isn't necessary to write a full plot synopsis for each book. Just make sure you know where you're going. In a one-volume story, if you change your mind, you can always go back and change something. That's the beauty of modern word processing. But in a multi-volume story, the first volume may already be published." }, { "answer_id": 66621, "author": "kmunky", "author_id": 15134, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15134", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "I started writing my series on Book Two. I didn't know at the time it was going to be a series. A few chapters in I realized I didn't really have the main character's voice, so I decided to pause on the novel and write a short story to get to know him better. That \"short story\" is 130k into the first draft, and as the supporting characters started to talk and add their ingredients to the soup, I found out that there is story that needs to be told to get to Two, so what began as \"a book\" is now Book Three of what will be a Quintology. Probably.\n\n\"Pantsing\" (i.e. writing by the seat of your pants) is no less valid a way to write than any other, easily illustrated via a quick google search. The specifics of how, why and what are up to you. There are no rules to writing. Are there pros and cons? Of course. Don't sweat them in this case though, because you'll figure it out as you go, and one of the advantages is its fluidity. The story tells itself, or perhaps better: the characters tell their own stories.\n\nBut if you're like me, I still need a roadmap. \n\nSo throughout my own writing journey of 180k words in my series, there is another 45k of planning: timelines, character histories, research topics, etc. I also found now and then that I would get overwhelmed by the tedium, or worried that I was \"overdoing it\". (I realized there is no such thing, btw, you will naturally put in as much work as you need, and don't let anybody tell you that you need more or less.) But there was a simple fix for that: When you get bored, switch gears.\n\nBecause boredom is the death of a story. \n\n**If you don't enjoying telling your story, then your readers won't enjoy reading it. Full stop.** This is not to say that writing is easy, but the work of it should be gratifying despite the inherent tedium and monotony. It took me six months and at least a dozen tries to write a chapter where I was struggling to describe an operatic song to the reader. After three or four failed attempts, I considered ditching it completely; *this is too hard, I'm just not good enough a writer to do this*. Whenever it got too tedious, I just stopped writing that selection, only returned to it when I felt ready for another try, or new inspiration struck. It honed my workflow and ultimately made me a better writer. And the beauty of it is that **the reader will never know**. They'll read right through it smooth as butter.\n\nBecause writing a book is not specifically a linear task. \n\nWrite three chapters ahead so that you can go back and foreshadow properly. Move chapters around if you need to. Add some. Remove some. Or characters. Or books. The sweet spot I think is when your characters start telling you their story, and when that happens, your job is to listen to them and be their voice. I would go so far as to say that if you're writing linearly, you're likely missing opportunities. And if you did manage to plan out an entire series to the letter before you start writing prose, you'd probably be the first person who's ever done it. :)\n\nThat might be an exaggeration. Planning is no less viable than pantsing, and I am a character writer moreso than a plot writer. But no matter; at the end of the day:\n\n* Never mind the rules\n* Make up your own\n* Break or change as needed\n* Enjoy your book" }, { "answer_id": 66622, "author": "Rogue", "author_id": 60349, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60349", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Yes and no. I started writing a book and ended up with so many ideas it turned into a series. I am finding that I have written myself holes that I have to go back and fix later on but over all you don't have to plan it out first but you might write the first book and then plan the next two at the same time. It is up to you." }, { "answer_id": 66627, "author": "Erk", "author_id": 10826, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/10826", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "I used the [Snowflake Method](https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/) to plan a multi novel series.\n\nIn short, the Snowflake Method consists of ten steps. The first is a one sentence summary of the book and the tenth is the first draft. Each step fleshes out the story more and more.\n\nI planned my novels by first doing step 1 for all books, then step 2 and so on to step 4. (There's one Snowflake—ten steps—for each book.) Then I did steps 5–6 for the first few books. And finally the rest of the steps for the first book (i.e. wrote the first draft of the first book).\n\nHaving a framework like the Snowflake helped me do a rough sketch of all the books and doing it a step at a time made mistakes easy to fix and changes easy to handle.\n\nI recommend stopping somewhere around steps 4–6 because writing each book will also teach you a ton about the story so things will be different after each book anyway, but having done this scaffolding the need for changes are less destructive.\n\nSo, in your case I'd say, flesh out the other books a bit, but don't go over board with it.\n\nIf you decide to try the Snowflake you might want to do steps 1–4 for all books and then 5–6 for books 1 & 2 and finally go all the way for book 1. Or stop earlier or later. Maybe you feel you just want to do steps 1–2?\n\nDepending on how detailed your outline is, it might correspond with steps 8 or 9 in the Snowflake with character bios being steps 3, 5 and 7. You may still want to go back to step 1 to nail down things like what the story really is about, what the plot points are, etc.\n\nAnother variant is to just do very important characters in books 2–3 and then go back and add more characters once you get to each book.\n\nOr you could just read the linked article on the Snowflake and translate it to your method of outlining or add to your method." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66616", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60340/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66640, "author": "Lucas Avigliano", "author_id": 60376, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60376", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "In my experience I think you're putting a bit too much thought into the apps and upgrades. Take a deep breath, grab a pen or pencil and jot down the idea. I can't begin to tell you how many new plot ideas I have written down on scraps of paper all over my office. Never let an idea slip away because even one that doesn't work out may end up being a great part of another story, or even the story you are currently working on. I have noticed that people get too carried away with technology and seem to try to buy or upgrade their way into better or more efficient writing. It just doesn't work that way, at least not for me and I'm not speaking ill of anyone that works differently. Sometimes a fresh outlook helps though.\n\nYou don't need notifications or anything like that. If you forget about the idea then that might mean it just wasn't that important, or possibly it just isn't the time to work on it. That doesn't mean there aren't ideas that are too good to let sit on the back burner. This is the burden of being a writer. There will be times you just have to jump out of bed and get to writing. Missing appointments and showing up late to work like a drunken sailor off leave because you've been smashing the keys all night is a sacrifice we all make as writers." }, { "answer_id": 66641, "author": "Amadeus", "author_id": 26047, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/26047", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "Spepfuj Kunw was in the middle of writing a book when he got an idea for another book.\n\nHe told his wife, Zatitfa about the idea, he often bounces ideas off her, and she thought it was great. She told him he should write it down.\n\nHe said, \"No, if I forget it then it wasn't good enough.\" He finished his book, sent it off, and then began the new book. He hadn't forgotten it.\n\nIf you are really afraid of forgetting it, write it up in Word, with all the details you are worried about forgetting. Then come back to it.\n\nHopefully you can write at least that well. If that wasn't enough to recall the plot, and be excited about it, then take King's advice -- It wasn't that great after all.\n\nYour other alternative?\n\nMake a backup of your directory with this application. Make sure you know where it keeps its data files. Just zip it all up, so you can restore it. Make sure you include any hidden files.\n\nThen use the program to start over with your new plot. Do all the work you want. When you are done, zip it up and store it, too.\n\nThen restore the previous directory and your data files, and restart your previous project where you left off.\n\nI don't know your system but there **must** be some way to back up your work, somehow or another if your work can survive a power outage, it is on the disk.\n\nFigure that out." }, { "answer_id": 66643, "author": "user482877", "author_id": 60280, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60280", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "You need both a better system of taking notes and a different practice of what you do with the notes you take.\n\nFirst, you need an easy way to take notes and one place to collect them. I use both a paper notebook (that I always carry with me) and a plain text file (that I use when I'm already at the computer). All my ideas go into one of these places.\n\nSecond, you need to use your notes. Whenever I begin working on a new project, I go through all my notes to find anything that might be relevant to that project. I transfer all those notes into a new plain text file for that project and delete them from the general note taking file or strike them out in the notebook (so I don't have to consider them again, now that they have been applied). Now I use those notes during whatever I do when I plan and write a project." }, { "answer_id": 66668, "author": "Wyvern123", "author_id": 55118, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/55118", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "There are a couple of ways of bringing to mind a plot idea. Here are the ones I use.\n\n1. Write it down\n\nAs another person already stated, there's nothing wrong with the paper-and-pencil method. If anything, it's better than putting the idea on your phone because you have to devote more effort into writing with a pencil than typing. This only serves to engrain it further into your memory.\n\nI have a pencil and a stack of index cards by my bed so that if I get an idea for a story (plot, character name, etc.), I can write it down. I still have the cards from several years ago--very effective.\n\n2. Use another app\n\nI've never heard of Milanote, so I can't give advice about saving things on it. What I do use, though, is an app called Notepad. When you get an idea, simply open a new page and type your idea down. As far as I can tell, no upgrades are needed. In the event that that or another app you use to record stuff fills up, the next morning just go and transfer it to a computer or paper.\n\n3. Put something out of place.\n\nThis sounds ridiculous, but it actually works. If you have something you want to remember (so long as it's not overly complicated), put something by your bed that's out of place. The next morning, when you wake up and see that item, your brain is triggered to recall the thought train connected with it. I use this trick all the time, even with something as simple as a blank index card. Works every time.\n\nI do advice, though, that each morning, record/transfer your idea to something more permanent (a computer document, an excel spreadsheet, a notebook). That way, you are less likely to lose anything." }, { "answer_id": 66686, "author": "kmunky", "author_id": 15134, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/15134", "pm_score": 0, "selected": false, "text": "My phone saved me this drama, in part. I often think of new details or ideas or eureka moments during my daily routine, especially while driving, where taking notes is not a viable option. I just grab my phone, make a quick recording, and move on with my day. I begin every writing session reviewing my notes to myself. Additional upshot is that I find half of my notions seemed a lot better in the moment than they do upon reflection, so it helps to weed out mediocre ideas as well. (Downside is that I also find my own speaking voice annoying and marvel how anybody listens to me talk. Good thing I'm a writer and not a public speaker.)\n\nFor storage, use cloud. That way if you ever slip on ice and fling your iPad farther than a pro quarterback while flailing for balance, you don't lose your work. Not that I've done that more than once, mind you, but let's just say experience has taught me that cloud storage is cheaper and less painful than new iPads.\n\nFinally, the simple truth is that if your writing tool inhibits your writing for any reason, even due to budget, then it's the wrong tool. Writing is hard enough without fighting your toolkit to do it. If you plan to write for a living, expect to switch up your routine over time. Likely multiple times. Sounds like this is one of them. Never sacrifice your work. Adapt your routine to suit.\n\nSo ditch Milanote posthaste. It's not working for you. A free app with less features would likely serve you better. You'll find new ways of working, and can focus your energy on your work, rather than fighting inadequate tools." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66636", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/59859/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66648, "author": "Divizna", "author_id": 56731, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/56731", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Well...\n\nIf your goal is to have your story accepted by a publisher as a no-name beginner author, or win first place in a contest, then this isn't the most promising strategy. Even if your story is actually good, it's going to have it harder to win the heart of an editor or judge. Unusual styles are especially popular with beginner writers, and these people have seen too many stories in an \"edgy\" or \"experimental\" style done for a self-serving sake, paired with overall inexperienced writing, so they tend to develop a sort of allergy to unusual forms.\n\nBut if you want to have fun with your writing and don't mind getting rejected or self-publishing online or creating something you end up discarding, then I say, go for whatever you feel like. I wouldn't worry it might ruin your sense of good writing, honestly I'd rather expect the opposite. By trying it out, and looking at the result, you're likely to get a firmer feeling for why some things tend to work better than others, or why some forms only work well in a limited type of context, or overdose the reader easily. It also gives you a ready array of options you can come back to and choose from when the time, topic, setting and so on is right for it. And a base for finding out the style you feel most at home with. All very positive things.\n\nWriting in unusual styles as a beginner writer is a bit like wearing an extravagant hairstyle and experimenting with adventurous behaviour when you're young (and I don't mean just drinking but also outdoor sports or traveling or whatever). Most people don't stick with a lot of what they tried, but the experience is meaningful for their growing up." }, { "answer_id": 66650, "author": "hszmv", "author_id": 25666, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/25666", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "Generally, I say with dialog that you should take your grammar book and chuck it out the window, but you still need it for narration. To that end, perfect grammar in dialog is not important because nobody speaks grammatically perfect English. And the way someone says something can tell you a lot about who they are. As a personal preference, I would try to avoid phonetic spelling for the effect of accents (I call it Hagriding, after the Hijrp Potfeq character Hagrid, who had a thick accent that was portrayed in the books with deliberate misspellings to portray it... but it always made his dialog difficult to read despite the fact that the audio books and the films make him one of the best characters to listen to.). If you over sell it, it becomes difficult for the reader to understand what is being said. (That in mine, on the rare occasion I write a character with a British Accent, I do take pains to write their dialog with British Spelling rather than American spelling I would use of other characters dialog and narration. My Brit would say \"Colour\" while my American would say \"Color\" so I'm not wholly immune... but most of my characters get the accent drop in the dialog tag, rather than poor spelling.\n\nI also will play with punctuation if characters are speaking in languages I do not know. Typically I use quotes followed by the Less than (<) to open dialog that is translated for the reader's benefit but in universe non-speakers do not understand and close with \"Greater Than\" symbol (>) before the closing quote.\n\n> \n> \"\" asked the Guard.\n> \n> \n> \"Sorry, I don't speak Spanish!\" Aluke said slowly, as she raised her hands. She felt like she could kick herself for taking High School French.\n> \n> \n> \n\nHere, the dialog conveys the language gap without openly saying what the unusual punction means. This method is one of my own, but it didn't originate from my own mind but from two sources: Comic Books, which tend put the <> around dialog that is translated in speech bubbles (since they don't use quotes in speech bubbles) but also have better indicators of internal though and vocal dialog (In the case of the former, the bubble will be more cloud like and have disconnected smaller clouds leading to the character thinking, while speech bubbles are typically oval shaped and have a direct arrow leading to the speaker). The other source was the use of \"thought speech\" in Animorphs, a sort of directed telepathic speech between characters without the ability to actually speak (as is fitting for a group of characters who are able to turn into animals) which used the <> without quotes to denote Though Speech from vocal dialog. There was other \"quotation subbing\" used for aliens that used other forms of speech but Though Speak was the most consistent." }, { "answer_id": 66651, "author": "user482877", "author_id": 60280, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60280", "pm_score": 1, "selected": false, "text": "The common advice for popular genre fiction that agents and experienced writers give is to follow the conventions of your genre as an unpublished aspiring writer. This pertains to all aspects of the work, such as length, tense, topics, viewpoints and so on, as well as style.\n\nThis advice does not hold true for literary fiction, though. There are segments of the market where innovation and experimentation are selling points." } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66646", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60376/" ]

[ { "answer_id": 66653, "author": "EDL", "author_id": 39219, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/39219", "pm_score": 2, "selected": false, "text": "Its good to ground the character reactions in solid tangible qualities -- like the woman's lips and eyes. That is a good instinct for writing. So well done, you.\n\nThe single best way I can think of to avoid being cliché is to write the description from the experience of the viewpoint character. Sharing the desires and regrets, the sense of hope or defeat, or whatever conflicting feelings this photograph evokes. That was if you end up using pillowy love cushions or some other horrid description the reader won't really notice since they'll be imaging someone's lips from their own life." }, { "answer_id": 66654, "author": "Divizna", "author_id": 56731, "author_profile": "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/56731", "pm_score": 3, "selected": true, "text": "You can go with not the looks but emotion or memory. If they used to be lovers, then he remembers how her lips felt to touch in a kiss, so feel free to go for \"soft\", \"gentle\", \"eager\", \"shy\", \"playful\", \"coarse\" (because not every woman's lips are well moistured, some are dry and cracked to blood)... Whether they were lovers or not, you can for instance focus on her typical face expression... Details about characters' looks are one of the least interesting things you can describe if they don't have a meaning that matters to the story. So make sure you show the meaning, don't worry about measuring her lip in milimetres!" } ]

[ "https://writers.stackexchange.com/questions/66652", "https://writers.stackexchange.com", "https://writers.stackexchange.com/users/60376/" ]