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Russia Registers Second Vaccine Ahead of Phase 3 Trials

BRUNHUBER: Russia now says it's registered a second coronavirus vaccine ahead of phase III trials. The news comes as the country reports it highest single day death toll so far. Our Frederik Pleitgen joins us from Moscow. Fred, so, I understand this vaccine was created by a former biological weapons research laboratory. How much confidence can we have in this latest vaccine?</s>FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kim this is from the Vector Institute which is based in Siberia. And you are absolutely right. Vladimir Putin announced that this new vaccine had been approved yesterday at a cabinet meeting. And it's also the case that just like with the first Russian vaccine that was approved called Sputnik V, the same is the case with the vector vaccine and that it has not gone through the key phase 3 trials which of course, are the main trials to determine whether a vaccine is safe, and whether a vaccine is effective. Those are the trials where the vaccine and placebo are given to tens of thousands of participants in those large trials. The Russians say with the vector vaccine, that so far, it's been administered to only about 100 people. That was 14 people in the phase 1 of the trial, and then 86 people in phase 2 of the trial. However, from what the scientists are saying, they say there are no serious side effects, and they also believe that this vaccine will be effective. But again, of course those phase 2 trials have not even started yet. They're now saying that they want to start producing this vaccine to make about 60,000 doses as fast as possible. But one of the things that does appear to be clear is that neither of the two vaccines are going to be available to the larger, broader public here in Russia anytime soon. In fact, the Moscow mayor said a couple of days ago that he believes it will be several months before a vaccine is going to be available on an industrial scale. And as we've mentioned over the past two weeks, round about, and especially over the past week, Russia has seen record numbers of new infections several days. They're a little bit down today at 13,754. But again, as you mentioned, the death toll of 286 is the single highest death toll for a single day. And so, the Russian authorities seem to very much be on top of the fact that it's not going to be the vaccine, at least in the short-term that's going to bring the situation under control. That's why they're saying and they're calling on people to abide by the anti-pandemic measures and they're also putting new measures in place. Like for instance, they've announced over the past couple of days that some of the school classes -- right now, school holidays but those are going to end soon. Some school classes are going to do long distance learning and are not going to be going back to school. So, there are certain measures that are in place. But the Russian government at this point says they are still going to be able to avoid, they believe, a full lock down of the country, which of course is something that Russia did see earlier this year -- Kim.</s>BRUNHUBER: Absolutely. All right, thank you so much, Fred Pleitgen from Moscow. Appreciate it. Still ahead, the heart wrenching toll of COVID-19. The virus not only killed eight members of one man's family, now it's taking his livelihood.</s>RICHARD AGUIRRE, LOST FAMILY MEMBERS AND BUSINESS TO COVID-19: This is what's left of ten years of hard work.

Man Loses Father and Seven Other Family Members to Virus.

BRUNHUBER: For the past seven months, COVID-19 has brought death and hardship to people around the world. One Arizona man understands the painful toll all too well as he struggles to cope with the deaths of loved ones and the loss of his once thriving business. CNN's Miguel Marquez has this story.</s>RICHARD AGUIRRE, LOST FAMILY MEMBERS AND BUSINESS TO COVID-19: I don't want to cry because I know God has something better for me</s>MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ricardo Aguirre.</s>AGUIRRE: But it's hard not to just, you know, the --</s>MARQUEZ: The coronavirus killed his father and seven other family members he says. It took his business. It sickened him, his wife who was then four months pregnant and two of his kids.</s>AGUIRRE: I'm feeling very incompetent. A man might want -- not at all. I'm not been able to go back to where it was. I lost my dad. It's very hard. It's hard.</s>MARQUEZ: He doesn't know how they contracted the virus. They wore masks and used sanitizers constantly. It swept through his family in May, his father fought the virus for months.</s>AGUIRRE: My dad unfortunately, you know, he passed away in September 11, in my arms at 3:30 in the morning. It was very hard because we did everything together -- 42 years being by his side.</s>MARQUEZ: His mother is home and still fighting the effects of the virus. Now he spends his days shuttling her to hospital visits. Helping his wife now eight months pregnant dealing with an ever- increasing pile of bills. All this with little income and no health insurance. (on camera): You don't have medical coverage.</s>AGUIRRE: I don't have medical coverage at all. It's just too much.</s>MARQUEZ: Even Obamacare?</s>AGUIRRE: No.</s>MARQUEZ: You just can't afford anything.</s>AGUIRRE: No, I can't afford it. It's just too much. It's literally another house payment.</s>MARQUEZ (voice-over): Aguirre and his family, built Tacos y Tamales Pueblo he had a food truck, a prep kitchen in downtown Phoenix and a long list of corporate and wedding clients.</s>AGUIRRE: This is what is left of 10 years of hard work.</s>MARQUEZ (on camera): You were living the American dream.</s>AGUIRRE: Yes, I was. Come visit us. As you can see, we are busy.</s>MARQUEZ (voice-over): When coronavirus cases in Arizona jumped and the economy shut down, Aguirre watched all his catering jobs scheduled for the next year evaporate. His food truck was repossessed. He couldn't pay rent on his prep kitchen. (on camera): When did it all come to a halt?</s>AGUIRRE: March 17.</s>MARQUEZ: COVID?</s>AGUIRRE: Yes.</s>MARQUEZ: Overnight.</s>AGUIRRE: Yes, just like that.</s>MARQUEZ (voice-over): Aguirre would like the President to understand just how devastating the disease is for some. (on camera): When he says don't be afraid of, COVID don't let it dominate your life, what do you say to him?</s>AGUIRRE: May God continue to bless you and your family.</s>MARQUEZ: But how does the real-world deal with COVID?</s>AGUIRRE: It's bad. It's bad.</s>MARQUEZ (voice-over): Aguirre is now looking forward to that big day in November, November 7th. The day his first daughter is due to be born.</s>AGUIRRE: We felt that we were ready financially, and we were ready, you know, emotionally, you know, to take care of another human being. Now with this going on, I just ask God for strength to get me by another day.</s>MARQUEZ: The real toll of the coronavirus on one American family. Miguel Marquez, CNN, Phoenix.</s>CHURCH: Well, on that sad note, that wraps this hour of CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Kim Brunhuber. "EARLY START" is up next.

Global Coronavirus Pandemic; Early Voting Brings Long Lines, Record Turnout; Thai Government Bans Gatherings of 5+

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John Vause. Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, just in time for the holidays, curfews, restrictions, mask mandates. With infections surging a return to pre- COVID life in Europe once again on. Hold Across the U.S., there's record hospitalizations and daily infections rising to record levels, the U.S. president superspreader campaign tour rolls on. And in Bangkok, authorities crack down on a rare show of defiance as pro-democracy protesters challenge Thailand's monarchy and the prime minister.</s>VAUSE: We begin with a second wave of the coronavirus, more severe than the first, sweeping across Europe. Over the past week infections have risen sharply. Countries that had the virus that were once under. Control. Some of the worst affected regions in Germany we're now seeing limits on the numbers allowed to gather socially. Chancellor Angela Merkel is urging younger adults to follow these rules. There are tougher measures if infection rates continue to. Rise Italy, where the first hit, now reporting its highest daily case count since the beginning of the pandemic. Starting Saturday, about a third of France's population will be under a 9 pm to 6 am curfew which will be in effect for at least 4 weeks. CNN's Melissa Bell is live for us in Bordeaux; , CNN's Ben Wedeman standing by in Rome. First to France. Melissa, this is a first full weeklong curfew at this point in time. But Macron wants it to be much longer it seems.</s>MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, it could go up to six weeks or longer. He made this point on TV last night in a very somber address on the danger of the virus and the danger of what is happening right now with this second wave, to France's health care system. Explaining at the moment, referencing the fact that last week 3 records set, yesterday as well, more than 20,000 new cases announced in the single day. He said very clearly at the moment, we are seeing daily rises of 20,000 new cases, we need to get down to 3,000 to 5,000. Hence the curfews in Paris, the greater Paris region, plus 8 other French cities on Saturday. You'll just have to be at home between 9 pm and 6 am. Here is what he explained.</s>EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): If we stick to this curfew for 6 weeks, if we take collective responsibility for reducing our contacts, we think that will be able to progressively reopen at this stage.</s>BELL: So he's leaving open really the amount of time it's going to be in place. But clearly this is going to be very damaging economically for an economy that was already looking very fragile in terms of recovery. He also therefore announced that all the sectors that would be affected, cinemas, restaurants, bars, all of those people, are going to have the salaries of their employees paid for by the state. So we're back into that first wave the state having to support all of that economic activity or end of economic activity. That's looking like an increasingly hefty bill that is at some point going to have to be paid.</s>VAUSE: Melissa thank. You Let's go to Ben now. Ben, Italy is a country that has paid such an incredible price in this first wave of the coronavirus, in terms of numbers of deaths and economically. And now once again record numbers of infections. This must be incredibly disheartening.</s>BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it certainly is and in Italy now, as of Wednesday, was reporting 7,332 new cases of coronavirus in a 24-hour period. That compares to at its worst on the 21st of March, when Italy was really in the depths of the coronavirus, its worst at that point was reporting 6,557 cases. And here we have "la Republica," a Rome daily, that shows how much, how many cases it has increased in just the last month or so. And one of Italy's most respected experts on coronavirus is saying that Christmas is now at risk. As of Monday, the entire government implemented new restrictions and rules for the citizens regarding COVID. For instance now, if I were to take this mask off, as I stand here in the center of Rome, I could be fined as much as 1,000 euros. Trying to keep this mask on, because, before when I was reporting from Italy, even at the worst phases of it, I didn't have to wear this mask.</s>WEDEMAN: Now if I take it off, a 1,000 euro fine. And the country is bracing for worse. What's interesting, John, if you look at the numbers, however, even though yesterday the biggest number of cases was reported, only 43 people died. That compares to, for instance, at its worst on the 29th of March, 969 deaths were recorded. So clearly, the treatment of the virus, even though there is not a cure at this point, has improved dramatically. And I can tell you one thing I'm noticing, now that I'm back in Italy reporting on coronavirus, is that it's much easier now to get a test. In fact I was swabbed yesterday. In my home here in Rome. So things are improving. One of the reasons why perhaps this large number of cases is being recorded is because it's so much easier now to actually get a test. John</s>VAUSE: We are out of time. Just very quickly, when did you get the results back or when do you get the results back?</s>WEDEMAN: I got the results in 3. Minutes. It's negative. But of course you never know, as far as you could test today negative but sort of picked up the disease the day before, anyway, it's a little complicated.</s>VAUSE: The test results in 3 minutes. Can't get that in this country, 3 days if you're lucky. Ben, thank you. Also Melissa Bell, thank you. Well the coronavirus infection rate in the U.S. has soared to its highest level in 2 months. More than 50,000 cases are now being reported each day. Just a few days ago, as you can see on the right of the screen, the situation was less severe. A handful of green states reporting daily infections were falling. But now as you can see on the left-hand side of the screen, not a single state is trending in the right direction. More now from CNN's Brian Todd.</s>BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A new field hospital opens in Wisconsin today, as the state sets records for deaths in a day. It comes as we get the starkest indication yet of a brutal start to the fall, 36 states trending upward in new coronavirus cases tonight. No states are trending down in new cases and for the first time in two months, America averaging more than 50,000 new cases each day.</s>DR. AMESH ADALJA, INFECTIOUS DISEASES SOCIETY OF AMERICA: We have got a lot of activities that are resuming. We have got sports all over the place with people in stadiums again. We have a lot of people getting back to work. We have schools open. We have people having kind of quarantine fatigue and trying to get back to some semblance of their normal life, having gatherings.</s>TODD: And there are new warnings about those gatherings, the White House Coronavirus Task Force and the CDC saying they're seeing an increased threat of virus spread from small household gatherings, where precautions often are not taken.</s>DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: Particularly with Thanksgiving coming up, we think it's really important to stress the vigilance of these continued mitigation steps in the household setting.</s>TODD: Tony Green knows that threat too well. He held a small family gathering in Texas in June. From that event, he says, 14 people became infected and two of his relatives died.</s>TONY GREEN, FAMILY MEMBER OF CORONAVIRUS VICTIMS: I feel like a drunk driver that killed his family.</s>TODD: In two hard-hit areas, local leaders are cracking down. Oklahoma City seeing a rise in hospitalizations, is extending its mask ordinance until December 7. New Mexico's governor, saying her state is approaching a point where the spread of the virus will be, quote, "uncontrollable," announces several new restrictions. Bars and restaurants serving alcohol have to close at 10:00 p.m., gatherings limited to five people. In New York City the mayor says, while some hot spots have leveled off, the city is always at the threshold of getting back into trouble.</s>MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D-NY), NEW YORK CITY: We are threatened with a full-blown second wave in New York City. If that happens, the entire city would have to go back to the restrictions we knew in March and April.</s>TODD: New York's governor expressing frustration with a sweet 16 party at this inn on Long Island last month which spawned nearly 40 new cases. Citing pop-up clusters like that, he offers a sobering projection for the country.</s>GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): This is not going away anytime soon. I think best-case scenario, we're looking at another year by the time -- even if everything works out well.</s>TODD: But some good news mixed with caution, three new reports just published say that for people who've been infected with coronavirus and recovered, immunity from the virus can last for several months, maybe even longer because they've produced antibodies. But one expert cautioned us that with coronaviruses, that immunity can wear off in a year or so, making the race for a durable vaccine even more critical -- Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.</s>VAUSE: Even though cases in America's Midwest have been increasing dramatically.</s>VAUSE: President Trump was back in the heartland for another campaign rally. He was in Iowa on Wednesday where he and most of the supporters were not wearing face masks. There is no social distancing, either. Now that the president is recovered from COVID-19, the Trump administration has been pushing for herd immunity, to let the virus run its course unchecked through the entire population. Many health experts say it's blatantly unethical and needlessly deadly.</s>WILLIAM HASELTINE, FORMER PROFESSOR, HANARD MEDICAL SCHOOL, HARVARD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Herd immunity is another word for mass murder. That is exactly what it is. If you allow this virus to spread as they are advocating, we are looking at 2 million to 6 million Americans dead, not just this year but every year. The reason for that is that it there is no such thing as herd immunity. These viruses, coronaviruses, come back year after year and infect the very same people.</s>VAUSE: At that Iowa rally, the president mentioned his son was also tested positive for COVID-19.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Barron Trump, you know, he had -- he had the corona 19, the China virus. He had it for such a short period of time. I don't even think he knew he had it. Because they're young and their immune systems are strong and they fight it off 99.9 percent. And Barron is beautiful and he's free.</s>VAUSE: Well, we've said this before, the U.S. presidential election is less than 3 weeks away. But already millions have voted in record numbers. The country will hear from both candidates on Thursday night. But Donald Trump and Joe Biden will not actually debate each other. They will hold town halls in different cities on a different network but at the same time. Meanwhile, the old firm of Obama Biden will be back on the campaign trail next week. Former U.S. president Barack Obama will hit a number of swing states where voting is already underway. The Biden campaign is hoping President Obama will make the case for his former V.P. with Black, Latino and younger voters. On Wednesday, Obama criticized Republicans for not keeping Trump in check.</s>BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think a very important question, after the election, even if it goes well with Joe Biden, is whether you start seeing the Republican Party restore some sense of</s>VAUSE: While Miami-Dade County in Florida will begin counting mail-in ballots in the next few hours. With in-person person voting starting on Monday. California has received 10 times as many requests for mail- in ballots, compared to the same point in the 2016 election. CNN's Pamela Brown has more. From across the country.</s>PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More early voting marked by more long lines, glitches, a record turnout in many locations by determined voters.</s>TRACE JACKSON, TEXAS VOTER: It's my civic responsibility and I always vote.</s>BROWN (voice-over): Early voting is happening across the U.S., with more states joining by the day: a big, first day in Tennessee, hours- long lines and a fresh glitch in Georgia and Texas where day one shattered records. Harris County, Texas had the highest early voting turnout ever. But officials in the neighboring county of Fort Bend are adding extra hours of voting after systems problems.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just want to let everyone know that we are aware of some glitches in our voting system.</s>BROWN (voice-over): The glitch? The wrong date was put into the voting system and lines didn't move.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just disappointing to see some people left. I'm wondering, are those people going to make it back in to vote or are they just not going to vote this year?</s>BROWN (voice-over): Voter enthusiasm was high in Georgia.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is generational election. People have to get out and vote.</s>BROWN (voice-over): And the long lines did not deter voters.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the primary, we waited about four hours. But we're willing to do whatever it takes to get the vote in.</s>BROWN (voice-over): The process, in part, slowed due to the pandemic. Machines are wiped down between voters to prevent the spread of coronavirus. Another issue is not enough bandwidth to process all of the information going through the system, affecting some voting locations Wednesday. Despite it all, Georgia's secretary of state announced 10 percent of Georgia's 7.6 million voters already cast their vote.</s>BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: To sum it up, Georgia voters are excited and setting records every hour.</s>BROWN (voice-over): And in battleground Ohio, early in-person voting tripled from 2016.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's rekindled like a spirit of democracy in a lot of people. It has in me because I've missed votes, you know. So -- but I'm not missing today.</s>BROWN (voice-over): That spirit of democracy felt nationwide.</s>BROWN: A new Pew Research survey found deep divisions in confidence with the election process between Trump and Biden voters. Seventy-six percent of registered voters who support Biden are confident that the country will know the winner of the presidential election after all the votes are counted, while a much smaller majority of Trump supporters, 55 percent, are confident that they will have a clear sense of who won after all the votes are counted. And just 13 percent of those Trump supporters say they are very confident -- Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.</s>VAUSE: After the break, unprecedented protests against the monarchy and the government in Thailand. How officials are trying to quell the unrest.</s>JONATHAN MILLER, JOURNALIST: They want reform. They want democracy and they want things to change in Thailand since old Thailand's against new Thailand.

K-pop's BTS Makes Strong Market Debut

VAUSE: Thailand's government is banning gatherings of more than 5 in Bangkok.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language).</s>VAUSE (voice-over): It's not because of the pandemic but to try and end months of pro-democracy protests. The effort came after thousands filled the streets on the capital Wednesday, an unprecedented show of defiance. At least 3 pro-democracy activists had been arrested. Earlier I spoke with Jonathan Miller of the U.K.'s Channel 4 News who was in Bangkok.</s>MILLER: I woke up, as did most of the Thai people, to news that, at 4:00 am, the government had issued an emergency decree, which was announced on state television and it says as it appears that there are many groups of people have been cited illegal public assemblies in Bangkok in the extremely necessary to introduce an urgent measure to end the situation effectively and to maintain peace and order. Now peace and order, of course, are the keywords here. They are the watchwords of authoritarian regimes everywhere. But peace and order ironically were the very words that the junta which took control here in a coup six years ago said that they were coming in to restore then. And so, yes, in that respect, they failed spectacularly; in that respect Bangkok is no better off than the chaos of 2014. However, something is very different here now and that is that these protests are focused on the king. Or at least that's one of the focuses because the dictatorship, as the protesters call it, they want them out and a new constitution put. But there are key elements they want to see reform of the monarchy. And this decree is trying to close them down.</s>MILLER: It's basically saying that they're banned from any public assemblies of more than five people. And from publications of broadcasts, putting out anything that would create fear or affect national security. You have to see this in the context of what has been happening here in the past few weeks. Yesterday I was out on the streets of Bangkok and this will help you catch up fast.</s>MILLER (voice-over): In an ancient kingdom, in the throes of authoritarian regression, they turned out in the thousands to march against dictatorship. For decades, Thailand has been locked in a cycle of coups and regular spasms of violence. Now, with the</s>MILLER: John, I understand the outside government had quarters here in Bangkok and last night the scene in behind me here was awash with thousands of demonstrators. You wouldn't believe it now with the traffic flowing freely, but, half an hour after the emergency decree was issued the riot police moved in. There were arrests including two key protest leaders. And another one, the one who led the calls for monoclonal reform was picked up at 8:30 this morning. The question is whether Thais have the stomach to keep on going with this calling for reform, whether there are cracks in the edifice perhaps. Everything is on the table right now.</s>VAUSE: Well, it seems the chart-topping K-pop sensation BTS is just a bigger hit in the financial. Big Hit Entertainment, the group's management company, raised $840 million in</s>PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Everything this band touches, seems to turn to gold. BTS is South Korea's most well-known boy band shooting to the top of the billboard charts last month. A feat no other Korean artist has achieve.</s>JUNGKOOK, MEMBER OF BTS (through translator): It still doesn't feel 100 percent real, more so because right now we can't perform in front of people. In front of our fans.</s>HANCOCKS: The next chapter, IPO. BTS is management big hit entertainment is listing the company on South Korea's stock exchange. A move that values the company at more than $4 billion. More than the next three top k-pop agencies combined. In today strong market, some assumed investors will flock to buy the shares, including the bands hard-core fan base.</s>KIM EUN-HEE, BTS FAN (through translator): I may pick one or two shares, even if it is just one. So, I pulled my money and plan to put in 150 million one. I want to get closer to BTS as one teen and help them.</s>HANCOCKS: Big deal for big hit. But some worry that they are two reliant on just one act.</s>PARK JU-GUN, BUSINESS ANALSYT (through translator): 90 percent of big hit entertainments revenue is from BTS. So the risk is there. But it has started to shift its revenue structure to multi-faceted portfolio.</s>HANCOCKS: Big hit as it has created an ecosystem of artists, apps and contents.</s>BANG SI-HYUK, CEO, BIG HIT ENTERTAINMENT (through translator): We drove profit not only through the album and music, but online concerts, official merchandise, multimedia content and more.</s>HANCOCKS: Military service looms for all seven members of the group, but they could use another international k-pop group big bang as a model. Solo careers. Some also question the timing of the IPO in the middle of a global pandemic. But the market sees it as a sign that the company can only go up as the world recovers.</s>JU-GUN (through translator): If the company is highly value now in the midst of a pandemic, it will be an opportunity to gain even more momentum next year, post pandemic.</s>HANCOCKS: In a rare move for the industry, big hit has given more than $7 million worth of shares to each member of the bands. A share of the success. And perhaps a guarantee for the future -- Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.</s>VAUSE: Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, as a second wave sweeps across Europe, U.K. prime minister is coming under fire for what he did and did not do in his response to the pandemic.

COVID-19 Spike in U.K. Exposes Political Divisions

VAUSE: Tough pandemic restrictions have been reimposed across Europe, where resurgence of the coronavirus is sending the daily number of infections to record highs and. Beyond In the U.K. the second wave is putting even more pressure on Boris Johnson's leadership. Lawmakers are odds over the best way forward. CNN's Salma Abdelaziz reports.</s>SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN PRODUCER: A spike in coronavirus cases across the U.K. has exposed political divisions and ignited a firestorm of criticism over Boris Johnson's strategy to stem the rising infection rates. The prime minister faced off with the opposition Labour Party leader in Parliament. She called for a circuit breaker, a short, sharp but nationwide lockdown. This was the prime minister's response.</s>BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: Let's try to avoid the misery of another national lockdown, which he would want to impose, as I say, in a headlong way. Let's work together. Let's work together, as he was prepared to do, to keep kids in school, who he would now yank out, yank out of school in a preemptory way. Keep our economy going and keep jobs and livelihoods supported in this country.</s>ABDELAZIZ: Each of the United Kingdom's four nations is taking a different strategy to stem the rise in coronavirus cases. Wales announced it will ban travelers from entering the region from coronavirus hotspots in England, Northern Ireland and Scotland. The first minister of Scotland quickly voiced her support for the Welsh government's decision, saying this is a public health decision, not a political one. Northern Ireland, on the other hand, will be closing schools from Monday and pubs and restaurants will have new restrictions starting Friday. Here in Liverpool, the first city to fall under England's new COVID alert system, restrictions are in place that shut down pubs, bars, casinos, gyms and households are banned from mixing together indoors. This was also met with resistance by Liverpool's local city council. Officials here are saying prime minister Boris Johnson's government has failed to communicate and coordinate their strategy. All of these debates taking place as the number of coronavirus infections continues to rise across the United Kingdom -- Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, Liverpool.</s>VAUSE: Dr. Peter Drobac is an infectious disease and global health expert at the University of Oxford. He joins us live. Doctor, thank you for being with us. Once again it seems an old debate has resurfaced this time over lockdowns. Saving lives versus saving the economy. We have Liverpool, the only city in England which is under this top tier alert. When ministers call for restrictions on other big cities, liberal leaders, like the mayor of Manchester, put up statements like this, imposing tier 3 lockdown measures, would surrender people to certain hardship in the run up to Christmas. What seems to be happening is that most people there, all these leaders, don't seem to understand this a public health crisis, which has caused an economic crisis. Ending the pandemic is the only way to save the economy. That was true during the first wave. That's true during the second wave, right?</s>DR. PETER DROBAC, OXFORD UNIVERSITY: That's exactly right. It's a false choice between public health and the economy. And if we look around the world , the only countries that have escaped real economic devastation have been the ones that did a good job early on. We are caught between a rock and a hard place right now. The U.K. and across much of Europe, cases started rising back in August actually. And it's continued to kind of creep up over the last couple of weeks. We've seen really alarming spikes. It reflects a real failure to have long term public health strategy to address the pandemic, so we move from these kind of short term measures of severe lockdowns to opening up way too quickly and lurching back and forth. What we really need is a package of measures that are going to help us get through the winter. What I fear right now is that the measures that are being proposed are going to be too little, too late. And in fact the government, the measures introduced this week, are far short of what's recommended by their own scientific advisers.</s>VAUSE: And what was Germany, though, Angela Merkel has introduced tougher restrictions. Germany also seeing some rising case numbers as well. She had a message, particularly for younger people. Listen to this.</s>ANGELA MERKEL, CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY (through translator): We must call, especially on young people, to do without a few parties now in order to have a good life tomorrow or the day after. And a lot is riding on this. And we saw the unruly effects on our economy that the spring had. And we are a high performing country but our resources are not unlimited. And so we must be careful with our resources.</s>VAUSE: It seems that's a familiar situation in a lot of countries but compared to the U.K., France, Italy, Germany is doing a lot better in its efforts to contain this virus. Outside of the restrictions, what do you think they have actually been doing right in Germany?</s>DROBAC: So what Germany did was actually build a robust public health response. They both have a strong medical sector but also worked in investing early in testing and in contact tracing, in early detection and community treatment. And all those measures help to break change of transmission, so when you have one positive case, you address that; you find their contacts, you get them out of circulation before the virus can spread. Here in the U.K. we still have a pretty shambolic test and trace system, many people who need a test with symptoms can't even get one. And the contact tracing system has been a real failure. So Germany in contrast, by using those public health tools, much like the very successful countries in the Pacific Rim, have been able to largely stave things. Off They have started to see also a quite concerning rise in cases. And I think Angela Merkel's point also is that it's not just about the policies and what government needs to do; it's about each of our individual behaviors to protect ourselves and to protect one another.</s>VAUSE: It's interesting how what happens in Germany doesn't happen in isolation and is impacted by other countries in Europe. What we're seeing over here in the United States, is embraced by the White House in the concept of herd immunity. Allow the virus to run unchecked, bury the dead later on. Many scientists signed a letter against this idea. The World Health Organization has also warned against it. Listen to this.</s>TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION DIRECTOR- GENERAL: Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from the virus, not by exposing them to it. Allowing a dangerous virus that we don't fully understand to run free is simply unethical. It's not an option.</s>VAUSE: Before this pandemic, when we talked about herd immunity, it was about using vaccines to reach a level of immunity among the population. That's what happened with the measles. But if there is no lifelong immunity, which we seem to be discovering now from the coronavirus, it may be 7 months or maybe less and there is no vaccine, is it possible to get herd immunity?</s>DROBAC: Not without tremendous, unnecessary suffering and death, frankly. It's never really been done, this idea of achieving herd immunity through natural infection. It's not something that's ever been successfully done, intentionally. I've also signed on to that same declaration against the so-called herd immunity strategy. There are 2 big problems with it. Number one, the idea that you can somehow let the infection rip through the healthy part of the population and then effectively shield the vulnerable part of the population, who include the elderly, those with medical comorbidities, those who are overweight and certain communities of color, is really just impossible to do and it's not been done successfully. In places that have tried like Sweden, we saw the virus rip through care homes for example and cause a lot of unnecessary death. The second problem is, you pointed out. Is that immunity is incomplete and it probably is not durable. We don't know how long immunity will last for. So what you are really looking for with a herd immunity strategy, is risking potentially millions of excess deaths for an uncertain short term benefit. I just agree it's not ethical.</s>VAUSE: It does seem a trail of destruction and the most vulnerable pay the highest price. Dr. Drobac, thanks for being with us, we appreciate it.</s>DROBAC: Thanks for having me.</s>VAUSE: Armenia and Azerbaijan are blaming each other for violating a temporary cease-fire that was broken by Russia. Azerbaijan's president accused Armenia of trying to attack its oil and gas pipelines and threatened a severe response. Armenia's prime minister said Azerbaijan continued its attacks during the cease-fire. The dispute centers around a region governed by Armenians but within Azerbaijan's internationally recognized borders. Next up on CNN NEWSROOM. A warning from the IMF about economic aid during this pandemic, sounding the alarm for the most vulnerable countries now struggling with the economic fallout from the coronavirus.

No Delay for Barrett Nomination

HARLOW: All right, welcome back. So just a few moments ago Senate Judiciary Republicans rejected Democrats' call to delay the vote to advance Judge Amy Coney Barrett's Supreme Court nomination to the full Senate.</s>SCIUTTO: They're going to do it. The vote is now scheduled for next week, October 22nd. Committee now in day four of confirmation hearings listening to witnesses this time. Bottom line, the Supreme Court is set to change in a very big way, with big consequences going forward. Here with us now to discuss, CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Jeffrey, first on Amy Coney Barrett. I mean she punted on a whole host of issues, whether the president can delay an election, can the president pardon himself, on -- a question on voter intimidation, I mean even on climate change, right? I just wonder, are these truly open questions as a matter of law?</s>JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, even -- even -- ever since 1987 and the Robert Bjork hearings, Supreme Court nominees have really gone out of their way not to answer questions in any sort of substantive way. But even by those standards, Amy Coney Barrett has been reluctant to give opinions on much of anything. I mean I -- I don't think she would have been going out on a limb to say that climate change is real, to say that -- you know, to talk about pardons in a little more detail. I mean she really was a very protective of her own opinions. But, you know, what she did was, she kept her Republican support and it's a Republican majority on the committee and a Republican majority in the full Senate and that means barring some completely unexpected development, she will be confirmed before the election.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes.</s>HARLOW: She said and made a point to say on the first day, Jeffrey, I am not Justice Scalia. You know, I'm Judge Barrett and originalists can disagree. But then I don't feel like we learned how so. Did -- what is the most important thing we learned about her this week or maybe didn't learn?</s>SCIUTTO: Yes. Good point.</s>TOOBIN: Well, I think the most important thing we learned was that the super spreader event that a couple Saturdays ago at the White House where she said Justice Scalia was my mentor, I believe in interpreting the Constitution the way he does. And, yes, of course, it's true, no two justices, even who agree on most things, vote exactly the same way. But when you think about the core opinions of Justice Scalia, that the Constitution does not protect the right to an abortion, that affirmative action should be prohibited under the Constitution, that the health care laws are unconstitutional, all of that seems very much in line with what Amy Coney Barrett suggested her own views would be. So, of course she won't be identical to Justice Scalia --</s>SCIUTTO: Yes.</s>TOOBIN: But she will be much more similar to Justice Scalia than she will be to Justice Ginsburg, whose seat she will be taking.</s>HARLOW: Yes.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes, there's a great exchange where Senator Whitehouse (ph), I believe it was, like ran through all these 5-4 decisions, which were very consistently by that same conservative majority, liberal minority, now, of course, it would switch to 6-3. Just for folks at home, on some of those issues you mentioned, what does this mean for those big legislative questions, health care, gun control legislation, voting rights legislation going forward? Under this court, are those things in danger?</s>TOOBIN: Well, I -- you know, the -- much -- the answer is, yes. I -- I think you have to draw some distinctions. You know, the health care case, the one that's going to be argued on November 10th, there are a lot of peculiar facts of that case and I don't think you can take from Judge Barrett's testimony exactly how she will vote on that. But will she vote to prohibit states from limiting gun possession and limiting ammunition and -- and, you know, using gun safety laws? Absolutely she is going to be very tough on the Second Amendment. You know, will she allow states to restrict or even ban abortion? Absolutely. I mean will she vote to limit universities from using affirmative action, considering race in admissions? Absolutely. Those sorts of issues I think are absolutely -- you know, there couldn't be any doubt about how she'll vote.</s>SCIUTTO: Wow. Big deal.</s>HARLOW: Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much.</s>TOOBIN: All righty, team, see ya.</s>HARLOW: Well, nearly 300,000 people lined up to cast votes over the first two days of early voting in the most populated county in Texas. We will be joined by the man leading the effort on this, next.

North Carolina Trump Rally as Early Voting Begins; Harris County in Texas Shatters Voting Numbers.

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. President Trump is set to hold an afternoon rally in North Carolina today as that state begins in-person, early voting. Voters lining up this morning as a federal judge issued a mixed ruling for that key swing state, determining what will happen to flawed, mail-in ballots already cast there. CNN's Dianne Gallagher has more from Charlotte.</s>DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Every day for more than a month now Lee Zacharias checks the mail and comes up empty.</s>LEE ZACHARIAS, NORTH CAROLINA VOTER: I submitted my application August 20th in person at the board of elections office.</s>GALLAGHER (on camera): You have not voted yet, though?</s>ZACHARIAS: I have not received a ballot.</s>GALLAGHER (voice over): Like thousands of others in North Carolina, because of the pandemic --</s>ZACHARIAS: I have a compromised immune system.</s>GALLAGHER: Zacharias is voting by mail for the first time this year, or trying to. According to Ballot Trax, a new tool that North Carolina voters can use to check their status, her original ballot was mailed on September 11th. She contacted Guilford County in late September and was told Ballot Trax might not be accurate. So, to be safe, they canceled the original and sent her a new ballot, which she's still waiting to get.</s>ZACHARIAS: Makes me angry.</s>GALLAGHER: Across town, a different kind of voting problem. Forty- seven-year-old Vincent Gager returned his and his 83-year-old dad's ballots weeks ago. So he was shocked when we told him state data shows their ballots haven't been accepted.</s>VINCENT GAGER, NORTH CAROLINA VOTER: I've been doing it the same way for years. I sign his, you know, I'm -- I'm the witness because, you know, I'm his son.</s>GALLAGHER: He's not alone. So far, more than 1.3 million North Carolina voters have requested an absentee ballot and almost 40 percent of them have already been returned. But according to state data, nearly 7,200 are still under review, meaning the vote hasn't yet been accepted. Now, black voters make up only 16 percent of the total statewide ballot returns, but they account for almost 40 percent of the ballots listed as pending.</s>T. ANTHONY SPEARMAN, PRESIDENT, NORTH CAROLINA NAACP: This is no way to run an election.</s>GALLAGHER: Dr. T. Anthony Spearman is the president of the North Carolina NAACP. He's also a member of the board of elections in Guilford County, where nearly 6 percent of ballots returned by black voters are still listed as pending.</s>SPEARMAN: So many of them are for the first time undergoing this process and their naivety to it is causing some of these rejections.</s>GALLAGHER: As election workers review ballots for processing, they're supposed to notify a voter if they find a problem. Most issues can be fixed or cured without having to fill out a new ballot, but a slew of lawsuits surrounding what to do with ballots that are missing witness information led to the state board telling counties to do nothing and just wait for court guidance, leaving thousands of voters in limbo as the clock ticks down to Election Day.</s>SPEARMAN: And people are losing confidence. They're losing trust in the election cycle.</s>GALLAGHER: Creating suspicion in the shadows of North Carolina's ugly history of minority voter disenfranchisement.</s>GAGER: And I feel like they're trying to do voter suppression.</s>GALLAGHER: Still waiting on her ballot, Zacharias is suspicious, too.</s>ZACHARIAS: So I want to cast a vote.</s>GALLAGHER (on camera): Are you afraid that your state is going to prevent you from doing that?</s>ZACHARIAS: I don't know the answer.</s>GALLAGHER: Now, the state board of elections actually just issued some guidance about those types of ballots, saying that they're still working through it because there are other lawsuits out there. But that ruling last night should allow a voter like Vincent and his father to get some sort of contact from their county board of elections and tell them what they need to do about their ballot. Jim, that's what a lot of these voters just want, they want an answer. They want to know what to do.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes. They want it to be secure. They want it to be easy, too, understandably. Dianne Gallagher, thanks very much.</s>HARLOW: Well, this just into us at CNN. A campaign staffer for Senator Kamala Harris, of course the vice presidential nominee, has tested positive for COVID. We're told she was not in close contact -- the senator was not in close contact with this staffer. Senator Harris, though, is now canceling all her travel plans as a precaution through Sunday. Now back to voting. A record number of early voters, for a second straight day in Texas, just under 115,000 people voted in person early in Harris County. That, of course, is home to Houston. These are the lines from yesterday. Chris Hollins is the Harris County clerk. He joins us now. Good morning, sir.</s>CHRIS HOLLINS, HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS, CLERK: Good morning, Poppy. Thanks for having me.</s>HARLOW: Good to have you. Record numbers once again. Is this just because it's the first few days or are you expecting this all the way until Election Day?</s>HOLLINS: Well, Poppy, it turns out that when you make it easier for people to cast their ballots, they're more likely to vote. And so we saw a shattering of our early voting records on the first day of elections. And just yesterday, as you mentioned, we topped 100,000 again. And so we're seeing no signs of slowing down here. We have nearly 15,000 that have voted just this morning in about an hour and a half. And those lines are still moving.</s>HARLOW: So "The Houston Chronicle" this morning reports this, quote, delays in the traditionally Republican west Harris County were particularly lengthy, where more than half of the early voting sites had 40-minute-plus lines. They also report that the precinct four commissioner has asked you specifically to deploy more voting machines there. Are you going to do that?</s>HOLLINS: Yes. So we're looking at our operations on a daily basis in every part of Harris County to make sure that we have the infrastructure, the machines to be able to accommodate as many voters who are going to cast their vote.</s>HARLOW: Well, he says you don't there. He says you don't there and that the lines were 40-plus minutes long. So he's asking you specifically for more machines. Are you going to supply those?</s>HOLLINS: There were lines all over the county. People are really enthusiastic about casting their votes. And those lines have been moving. And so we are working with all of our county commissioners to ensure that every voter across Harris County had every single opportunity they can to cast their vote and to do so conveniently (ph).</s>HARLOW: Do -- just -- I hear you, but I'm just trying to get a direct answer on that direct request from that precinct head as to whether or not they're going to get the machines they need. Do you have enough in the state and will they get them?</s>HOLLINS: Here in Harris County we have -- we have machines in our inventory that we are deploying out to locations that need more of them.</s>HARLOW: OK. We'll stand by on that. Also, there's been a lot made, and it's become a national story, I think importantly, the back and forth in the courts on the one ballot box per county, especially in a big county like Harris County. So the latest legal move on that is that the federal appeals court has sided with Texas Governor Greg Abbott. So right now it's still legal to only have that one official ballot drop box. So now what? I mean you can appeal higher. Is that the plan?</s>HOLLINS: So the Supreme Court of the United States is the only court left. But, frankly, it's unlikely that we're going to prevail in this matter. It's deeply unfortunate. It's abuse of the governor's power to make a county like Harris County, larger than the size of Rhode Island, to have a single drop off point for our seniors and people with disabilities to be able to drop off their mail ballots. But we're working to accommodate those voters. We do have curb side voting at every single voting location. And we're seeing a number of seniors (ph) come in and surrender their mail ballot to vote in person because people are really enthusiastic about having their voices heard right now.</s>HARLOW: OK. In fact, you guys won an appeal on that, that was brought by Republicans trying to get rid of some of that drive through, if you will, if I can use that term, ability for people to drop off their ballots. But when it comes back to the governor, his argument here on the ballot boxes is, in his words, to, quote, maintain the integrity of our elections. And I would just note, he did -- like, you know the response from them is, look, we moved to make early voting three weeks long and not just two weeks long. He's the one who moved to extend it longer. Not enough?</s>HOLLINS: Yes, he did extend that early voting period and he did that after I wrote him a letter requesting that he do it. And we applaud that effort. But you don't get to suppress votes after you make voting easier. We should be making voting easier for everyone. And so the process at all of our locations was secure, your photo ID is checked, you watch yourself as your ballot is placed in a lock box. And that lock box is transported to our headquarters every evening.</s>HARLOW: Let me ask finally, Chris, just about what this is like for you. I mean you're 34 years old. You are a young leader in the party for sure. You got this job just in May after your predecessor had to withdraw for health concerns. You've been named in pretty much every lawsuit that Republicans have brought in the state on voting. What's it like to be in this position, to be responsible when you've got 2.4 million registered voters in your county?</s>HOLLINS: Well, it's a -- it's a huge honor to be entrusted with protecting the right to voter of more than 2.4 million voters. And we have a huge team that's working hard to protect the right to vote. And we're giving voters more options than ever, like drive through voting, like 24 hour voting, both of these that have never happened in the history of Texas. And so we're thrilled to be doing that and voters are excited about it too.</s>HARLOW: I appreciate your time. Good luck to everyone whose trying to make sure that everyone can vote. Thanks, Chris.</s>HOLLINS: Thanks, Poppy. Have a good one.</s>HARLOW: You got it. Jim.</s>SCIUTTO: Well, just in, a staffer on Senator Harris' team has tested positive for COVID. Harris is now off the trail for several days as a precaution. We're told no direct contact with this person up to 48 hours before the positive test. We're going to be on the latest.

Rep. Conor Lamb (D-PA) Is Interviewed About The Trump-Biden Battle In Pennsylvania

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Are you seeing that in your district in your area?</s>REP. CONOR LAMB (D-PA): We're seeing a little bit of that in the registration numbers, of course. I, personally, I'm not sure how many new votes that actually represents for the President. I think what they may be doing is going back and getting people who were registered as Democrats before that voted for the President, and just convincing him to switch over. So, I'm not sure that it's new votes. But there's no question that his strongest supporters have been doing some good organizing work far away from the big cities out in the same area where I've been competing the last two years, and that we need to work very hard to earn back the trust of these people who were the base of the Democratic Party for a long time and used to feel that we represented them very well.</s>KING: And to people who might not remember your story. You are, Joe Biden hopes anyway, you are the canary in the coal mine, if you will. You want to see that it'd been in Republican hands for a long time. The lines have been redrawn a little bit, but you won a house district that once had Congressman Rick Santorum in it. You have some Allegheny County, but then you stretch out it's a Butler County. What is the situation on the ground right now? And I think Danna makes a great point, Joe Biden needs to win Allegheny County, which is Pittsburgh and the surrounding area, he needs to win a big, I think you would agree with that. But then in places like Westmoreland County or Butler County or Beaver County, which are in your part of the state, Joe Biden's probably not going to win those counties. The key is can you not get swamped, like Hillary Clinton did, will he?</s>LAMB: I think he's going to do quite well compared to four years ago. And there's a lot of reasons for that. One is the people that you just showed in Dana's piece. I know those people, Phyllis commissioners, really, they've done an incredible amount of work over the course of the four years to help the Democratic Party, get back up on its feet in some of these areas, and reconnect and re-establish trust with these people. Secondly, we have the highest unemployment in our region right now that we've had since the steel industry collapsed in the early '80s. And if you talk to people that work in steel around here, they remember standing in line for a sack of potatoes and free butter, and everyone trying to look out for each other. And that's kind of what it reminds people of again. President Trump made specific promises about how he's going to do things like strengthen the steel industry, and help people with jobs and help them earn more and protect their Social Security and Medicare. And he hasn't kept those promises. And, in fact, a lot of these industries, things are looking worse now than they were four years ago. And Vice President Biden has a plan. No one thinks that perfect or that any particular policy is perfect, but he is saying I will take responsibility. I'll fight for your job, fight for your paycheck, bring back manufacturing, build infrastructure. A lot of the things President Trump managed for -- promise four years ago and just didn't do.</s>KING: A lot of Democrats as you know, be in the campaign thought Joe Biden was the wrong guy for the moment. I think you think and I think these numbers back it up, this is the Monmouth University poll, people white, no college degree, which is I say people like my dad work with their hands, Trump 53, Biden 44. You say, the President's winning nine points among those voters. If the President won by 30 points plus against Hillary Clinton among those voters, people who work with their hands. Why is it that Joe Biden is running stronger? Is it him or is it the reaction to President Trump saying he hasn't delivered on those promises?</s>LAMB: I think what it is, is that Vice President Biden is talking straight to them about the problems that they're having in their own families and with their own jobs. President Trump is talking about himself constantly, you know. Everyone who's against him, and the coronavirus that he had and all these things. Vice President Biden is coming here repeatedly, and he made a trip through Westmoreland County. And when he did that, he earned the support of the workers who actually work in natural gas and who actually build roads and bridges and locks and dams. Those two unions stepped up and they stood with Joe Biden on a stage here two weeks ago in a way that they didn't do four years ago. And I think President Trump thought he had a lot of their votes. But they're seeing that the infrastructure just never got built. And heading into a tough winter, when construction projects are getting canceled, left and right, the price of natural gas is down. So there's not a lot of drilling taking place. We need an infrastructure bill and we need it bad and our local steel -- I mean, there's a steel company in the county that was in Dana's piece that pays three times what they should to ship their goods across the state. It takes their trucks 900 miles, because there's not enough roads and bridges that can bear the weight of them. Where it would take you or I 300 miles to drive that same trip. And that problem faced them four years ago, it still faces them today. And Vice President Biden's build back better plan, would start to fix that kind of thing. And so I think that's why you're seeing this turn, he is focused on their issues and on them, not on himself.</s>KING: 19 days, we'll be counting the votes. And those are the key counties. Conor Lamb, Congressman, I greatly appreciate your time today, sir. Thank you.</s>LAMB: Thank you.</s>KING: Up next for us, more sad news, more positive tests in the NFL.

Atlanta Falcons Shut Down Practice Facility Due To Positive Test

KING: At the Atlanta Falcons now to the NFL coronavirus outbreak, the team just announcing it is shutting down its practice facilities due to COVID test in the organization. The Falcons scheduled to play the Vikings on Sunday. So far that game is still on the schedule, expected to go forward but this is just the latest problem to hit the league. Tennessee Titans had one of their games postponed when a dozen players tested positive for COVID-19. The Patriots also had a game postponed when four players including quarterback Cam Newton tested positive. Joining me now is New Orleans Saints star Malcolm Jenkins, he's also a CNN contributor. Malcolm, grateful for your time today. There are some people who say close contact sport, everybody in close quarters, middle of a pandemic, it is what it is, just deal with it. There are others, though, including a lot of your fellow players in the last week or so, are saying this is getting to a crisis point and they don't feel the league is doing enough to keep them safe. What's the truth?</s>MALCOLM JENKINS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think it's somewhere in between. I think the reality of it is that we're trying to play a sport, a contact sport, where we're all, you know, tied in together in the middle of a pandemic, and really don't have, you know, true guidelines is how to do that. But I think there is, you know, leadership between the NFLPA and NFL that are doing everything that they can do as far as a protocol standpoint, to make sure that we're doing the same as possible and knowing that those protocols are going to change and adapt as we learn more and we push throughout the season.</s>KING: You see it as well now in the SEC, so it's not just the NFL but you see, I mean, football again. It's close contact sport, people practicing close together, weight room close together, it's hard. It's harder than most professions to keep separate. Nick Saban, the coach of Alabama now testing positive. Florida LSU game postponed after 21 players tested positive. Missouri/Vanderbilt game also delayed due to positive tests and quarantines. As you have lived through this, it's personal to you, your own health and safety, are there adjustments being made along the way? Are there things that you would raise your hand and say, I think my team, the Saints is doing everything it can but we can do this differently or do this better?</s>JENKINS: Well I think we just always have to follow the science. You know, to me, honestly, I was surprised that we've made it this far. And I think that's been because of the protocols that have been put together. The first month and a half was really just onboarding players back into the facilities, getting back into training camp. And that was pretty uneventful. But once we now are a quarter of the way through the season, guys, we're having more time away from the facilities, children are going back to school. There's just -- you're bringing players in and out of facilities from a transactional standpoint, so there's just a lot more exposure. And I don't think anybody stepped into the season thinking that nobody was going to have a positive test, or that we weren't going to have some of these, you know, events where we have to reschedule games or shut facilities down. But, you know, we'll just continue to follow the signs and update the protocols as much as possible.</s>KING: The Chief Medical Officer for the NFL says a bubble would not work for the NFL. People have watched the NBA championship just finished hockey finished its season. But we're watching baseball playoffs right now, the teams have been traveling. Do you think the approach right now where you have to get on a plane, if you're not playing a home game, and traveled to a city, check into a hotel and all of that, is that the only way or could the NFL be doing this somewhat differently?</s>JENKINS: Well, I think there's been a few opinions on, you know, team travel and, you know, what's the best way to approach it so far. I felt pretty decent about the way we've done is adding more buses so players aren't packing to the buses obviously, has been talks about having more than one airplane, less people traveling, restrictions of us, being able to leave the hotel when we're on the road. Everything being, you know, as much of a bubble as possible when we do leave our facility. But, you know, protocols keep you from spreading the disease, they don't keep you from getting it. And you know, that can come from someone within the building but also can come just in daily life. So, we're going to do as much as we can to stop the spread. I don't know if there's anything we can do to stop people from getting it.</s>KING: Malcolm Jenkins, grateful for your time today, sir. Best of luck in the days and weeks ahead throughout the season.</s>JENKINS: Thank you for having me.</s>KING: Thank you, appreciate your time. Up next for us, President Trump on his way to North Carolina where the polls show a very, very close race, that's Air Force One on the way.

In N.C. Senate Race, Cunningham (D) Leads Incumbent Tillis (R).

KING: President Trump right now in the air on his way to battleground North Carolina, North Carolina. Let's go back to 2016 to remind us North Carolina should be a Trump state, right? He won it, 173,000 votes four years ago. It is in play late in campaign 2020. One of the many states, this President won four years ago where Joe Biden is either tied or leading. Right now, let's just take a look at the most recent polling in North Carolina. Biden 46, Trump 42. So that's statistically a tie, maybe a slight Biden edge, but it is competitive, it's competitive with maybe Biden the lead in a state the President carried four years ago. So, what's the problem and can the President come back? Let's discuss, CNN Political Commentator, Republican Strategist, Doug Heye joins me now. Doug, you know a little bit about the state. You've done some campaigns in the state. Why is it either slight advantage Biden or at least competitive right now? Shouldn't be?</s>DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, we have both empirical and anecdotal evidence on this. If you look at the polling that you've shown, it's consistent that Joe Biden is in a very good place compared to where Hillary Clinton was. And the reason for that is Joe Biden is seen as a likable popular candidate, where Hillary Clinton just wasn't. And, anecdotally, in 2016, I remember being home the weekend after the Access Hollywood tape came out and hearing from people, I'm going to vote for Bernie in the primary, I'm going to vote for Donald Trump in the general because I'm voting against Hillary Clinton. The last time I saw my father before he passed in October of 2016, he said, I'm going to vote for Donald Trump. I voted for Bernie Sanders, but I sure wish Joe Biden were running. I think there are a lot of independence like that.</s>KING: And so let's go through the state a little bit. I could do this in the wall right here for you. You look at Charlotte, you think African American population but you also have growing suburbs, you think about Raleigh Durham, you think about universities, but also medical centers, rising number of professionals, suburban women, people with college degrees, the state is changing in a way that given the reaction to President trumpet in recent years is not good for him.</s>HEYE: No, it isn't. And when you talk about universities, let's also keep in mind that historically black colleges and universities in North Carolina. There are 11 of them scattered throughout the state. And what we saw for Barack Obama, especially in 2008, but also in 2012 where North Carolina was the second closest state in the country both times is those universities were turnout machines for the Obama campaign. They were a big boost to him. If you're looking at Durham County, most people think about Duke, I'm wearing my tar heel tie, so I try not to think about Duke. But if you look at the HBCUs in Durham County, in Wake County, Marion (ph) County, Forsyth or Winston-Salem State is, they were turn-out machines for Obama and stand to be poised to do the same role as early voting is happening right now in the state for Joe Biden.</s>KING: And it's not just a battleground for the presidency, it has a key Senate race. The Republican incumbent Tom Tillis right now trailing a few points to his Democratic challenger. And it's one of the places where some Republicans are saying, if the President can turn his ship around himself and turn it around quickly, maybe Republicans, you see the Tillis-Cunningham poll there, maybe the Republicans should shift. This is Carl Rove writing in the Wall Street Journal. "The situation today is more dire for Mr. Trump. Four years ago, he needed a straight -- and drew it. This time he needs something like a royal flush. In such a bizarre year anything is possible. But possible doesn't mean likely. As insurance, Republicans better fight like hell to keep the Senate". Do you see evidence or do you think it is wise that Republican donors, for example, say sorry, Mr. President, we're taking the money from you, and we're going to ram it into these key Senate races?</s>HEYE: Yes, it does. And I'll tell you having been in North Carolina and South Carolina recently and full disclosure, the Democratic candidate Cal Cunningham went to Forsyth Country Day, which is my rival high school in Winston-Salem. Bishop McGuinness, we would always beat them in basketball. North Carolina is a much closer race, but it doesn't get the attention that South Carolina is getting, and all that money that South Carolina is getting. If you're a Republican and you want to save the Senate, you have a real opportunity now to keep Tom Tillis in office with Cal Cunningham and the issues he's had personally in his campaign that he still has failed to address. He's basically been running the bunker campaign that the Trump campaign says if Biden is running. If he's not answering these questions and more questions may come up, it's an opportunity for Tom Tillis. I tell Republican donors look at North Carolina.</s>KING: Old school rivalry is proof, all politics is local and remains local. Doug Heye, appreciate your insights there. We'll keep an eye on North Carolina of course.</s>HEYE: Thanks.</s>KING: When we come back, the President says some things about COVID. We'll show you world leaders take a very different approach.

Average Daily U.S. Infections More Than 50,000, 700 Deaths a Day; Trump, Biden to Appear in Competing Town Halls; Obama Takes Aim at Trump Ahead of Campaign Blitz for Biden; Source: AstraZeneca Took 1 Month to Get Vaccine Safety Data to FDA.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Very good Thursday morning to you, I'm Jim Sciutto.</s>POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow. Day four of confirmation hearings for the president's pick for the Supreme Court, Judge Amy Coney Barrett. Those are today and today Republicans on the Judiciary Committee are expected to push for a vote to approve her nomination that would then send it to the full Senate. Democrats will likely take up, though, this procedural move that they can make to delay the vote until next week. We will bring you those developments as they happen. Also this morning we are seeing increasing evidence that the U.S. is heading in the wrong direction in the fight against coronavirus. Dr. Fauci is warning against those pushing to lift restrictions in a move toward herd immunity. Watch.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: If you just let things rip and let the infection go, no masks, crowd, it doesn't make any difference. That, quite frankly, George, is ridiculous because what that will do is that there will be so many people in the community that you can't shelter, that you can't protect, who are going to get sick and get serious consequences.</s>SCIUTTO: And despite the CDC warnings of even small gatherings, things like our Thanksgiving dinners, the president is holding massive rallies with few in attendance wearing masks. Another one planned for just hours from now. Later tonight no debate but there will be dueling town halls, the president and Joe Biden set to take questions, make their case to voters as we close in on election day. First let's get to CNN's Adrienne Broaddus. She is in Wisconsin for more on the rising number of new infections there and also sadly across most states around the country. Adrienne, you know, I feel like we talk to you every day on this kind of thing. We'd like to report better news, but the facts are as they are.</s>ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim and Poppy, you're right. The facts are what they are. But here's the deal, behind those new numbers we're talking about people and their families, people who are hurting and suffering. For the first time here in Wisconsin reports of more than 1,000 hospitalizations. The state's positivity -- COVID-19 positivity rate is at 22 percent. ICUs are strained. And every region in this state has at least one hospital, in some cases more, reporting current or imminent staff shortages.</s>BROADDUS (voice-over): This morning the United States is facing a dangerous coronavirus wave. New cases are on the rise in at least 35 states over the past week and the country is averaging more than 50,000 new cases per day for the first time in about two months, recording nearly 60,000 new cases on Wednesday, the highest since August. With holidays like Thanksgiving just weeks away, Dr. Anthony Fauci encouraging Americans to rethink travel plans.</s>FAUCI: That is a risk. You may have to bite the bullet and sacrifice that social gathering unless you are pretty certain that the people that you're dealing with are not infected.</s>BROADDUS: As Iowa reached a positivity rate over 18 percent, President Trump held a rally in Des Moines with few masks in the crowd and no social distancing. Trump is also scheduled to hold an event in Wisconsin Saturday as the state experiences a coronavirus surge, reporting more than 3100 new infections Wednesday. A circuit judge temporarily blocking Governor Tony Evers' efforts to restrict public gatherings to 25 percent.</s>GOV. TONY EVERS (D-WI): Just because some folks out there want to see full bars and full hospitals, doesn't mean we have to listen. The longer it takes for folks to take this virus seriously, the longer it will take to get our economy and our communities back.</s>BROADDUS: Fauci says holding large gatherings like the president's campaign rallies are dangerous.</s>FAUCI: When people are close to each other and you don't have virtually everyone wearing a mask, that is a risky situation that could very well lead to the kind of spreader events that we have seen in similar settings.</s>BROADDUS: Meanwhile, the virus sidelining the University of Florida football program after at least 21 players tested positive. And Alabama football coach Nick Saban is now self-isolating at home after a positive COVID test.</s>NICK SABAN, HEAD COACH, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA FOOTBALL: This was routine every day. We test our players every day, I get tested every day. I feel fine. I felt fine. I was very surprised, you know, by this.</s>BROADDUS: As we look to the future perhaps we'll end here on a high note. Dr. Anthony Fauci said a safe and widely effective COVID-19 vaccine may be available by April 2021. A year after the start of the pandemic. Back to you guys.</s>HARLOW: Adrienne, thank you. Sobering headlines for sure.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes. Still a few months to go for that -- for that vaccine. Well, today the president's campaign blitz takes him to North Carolina, another swing state, for a rally before he heads to Miami for his town hall tonight. The president and Joe Biden will face off, kind of, in separate dueling simultaneously scheduled town halls tonight during what would have been their second face-to-face presidential debate.</s>HARLOW: Let's go to our John Harwood, he's following the latest for us. Good morning to you, John. I mean, it's too bad that they're at the same time because not everyone is going to DVR and watch them all and that's just unfortunate. However, I wonder if the president may be more likely to actually answer questions from voters than he was from Chris Wallace.</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think no doubt, Poppy. I think we're not going to see the truculent Trump that we saw in the first debate with Joe Biden when he was constantly interrupting and hectoring. You can't do that in a town hall setting. It is unfortunate that they are both going to be at the same time and more people are likely to tune into the president because the president has better drawing power, but that's probably fine with Joe Biden. Joe Biden is ahead substantially. He's going to have his with ABC in Philadelphia. Stakes are much lower for him. He tends to do well at connecting and projecting empathy and that's what the town hall format underscores. For President Trump stakes are much higher. He's significantly behind in every state that he's going to be in today, North Carolina as well as Florida, and the state that Joe Biden is going to be in. And the topic that's going to be front and center is what caused the cancellation of that debate that we were going to see tonight, the town hall debate, and that is the fact that the president himself caught coronavirus, many members of his staff have caught coronavirus. He will have that rally in North Carolina where as in other states he is appearing without a mask and there is no social distancing, no masks or few masks in his crowd. All those things are relevant to the spread of the virus. The issue of herd immunity, which he has talked about, his aides have talked about, Anthony Fauci said is nonsense, and also the economic ramifications of that that we heard from Christine Romans earlier. That is, 898,000 new weekly jobless claims. The spread of the coronavirus is slowing the economic recovery. We've had 30 consecutive weeks of unemployment claims higher than in any week -- any single week before the pandemic and so the president is going to be on the defensive. We'll see how he can perform tonight.</s>SCIUTTO: John Harwood, thanks very much. Let's speak about all this, the pig picture, with Dr. Peter Hotez, professor and dean of tropical medicine at the Baylor College of Medicine. Dr. Hotez, always good to have you on in the morning. You know, so we're going to see this again, right? A Trump rally in a state as it happens today, Iowa, that's seeing an alarming spike in cases here, 18 percent positivity rate right now. That's well above the safe margins. What does that mean to the overall national response to this as we're seeing cases tick up in really most states. I mean, as of yesterday it was really all of the states. What does it mean? You know, does it mean we're not going to be able to get a handle on this, right, as a country when you see the president setting an example like this?</s>DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, that's right, Jim. I think you've hit on it. We're now about to exceed 60,000 new cases a day, so we're looking at a doubling of new cases a day over just the last few weeks. And this is a very ominous sign. I think we're in for a pretty bad fall and winter and some estimates suggest this could be the worst yet so that we could double the number of deaths between now and the time of the inauguration or a week after the inauguration. So 400,000 deaths. So this is a time when Americans need to be reflective. And I understand people are scared and upset, and that's a normal reaction. And so we can have a whole separate conversation on what to do about the country's mental health and how we prepare for that, but this is not a time for rallies. This is not a time for bringing -- crowding a lot of people together, especially speaking loudly and cheering, which is releasing virus. This is the time when we could be entering one of the worst periods of our epidemic and one of the worst periods in modern American public health. I'm very worried for the nation.</s>HARLOW: You bring up mental health and I'm so glad you did because if this is worse than it was at the outset, well, guess what else is worse, the unemployment. Unemployment so many millions of more people, Doctor, out of work, people are sick of staying at home, there's no stimulus deal yet, and so there's no more aid for folks right now. I mean, that just seems like that is going to exacerbate this health and mental health crisis so much more this winter.</s>HOTEZ: Yes. Absolutely. Remember people are scared and remember we're not hearing any comforting words from the White House or the executive branch of the federal government. There is still no national plan to control COVID-19. There never was. It was always about having the states in the lead with the responsibility of the U.S. government to provide manufacturing support and that will not be adequate. So this could be a very troubling time for the country and this is why I've been recommending now, you know, start thinking ahead in November, December, January, who are the group of people that you want to social distance with? If you can avoid it, try not to be alone through this or at least have numbers to call, friends to call, have mental health counseling available even if you decide not to use it now, realize you might need it. I think this is the time when we need to build in belts and suspenders and recognize that if you're going to get upset and depressed, this is a normal reaction to a very tough situation and especially since we're being largely abandoned by the federal government.</s>SCIUTTO: Dr. Hotez, can you help me understand the scientific answer to this question because you hear it a bit, you've heard it from the president make the case that in terms of deaths per population, the U.S. is not doing so badly when compared with, say, Europe, although Asian countries certainly well ahead of both Europe and the U.S.? Is that a correct comparison to make?</s>HOTEZ: No, I mean, you can look at the -- for instance, if you go to the Johns Hopkins dashboard, they have a very nice -- in a troubling way, but a very accurate portrayal of the death rates from COVID-19 by country and we are pretty up there, unfortunately, and remember also that death rates vary potentially by season. There is a few papers out showing that the death rate is higher during the colder months than the warmer months. And we're not entirely certain why, whether there are more virus around but -- so that it potentially not only could we be seeing an increase in the number of new cases but potentially an increase in mortality rates. I hope we don't reach the situation like we did in March and April and that terrible time in New York City and multiple cities in the country, but that is a possibility.</s>HARLOW: I hope so, too, having lived through that here in New York. Dr. Hotez, thanks very much.</s>HOTEZ: Let me just say one thing.</s>HARLOW: Yes. Sure.</s>HOTEZ: The good news is this will get better. You know, this is not a time to despair either. By this time next year and probably a little earlier we'll have vaccines and we will be in a better position. So it's a matter of getting through these next few months.</s>HARLOW: Good.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes.</s>HARLOW: Good words. Thank you, Doctor. Well, the former president, President Obama, set to hit key battleground states campaigning for Joe Biden as we close in on election day. This as he takes on the president in a new podcast. You'll hear from him next. Also this morning we're learning about -- more about AstraZeneca's vaccine trial that has now been on hold in the U.S. for more than a month. We're going to tell you why.</s>SCIUTTO: Plus long lines, really long lines, not keeping record numbers of early voters from casting ballots in Texas and other states as well. What's fueling this surge and who in particular is coming out? Which party has the advantage here?

NYT: Eight Million Americans have Slipped into Poverty Since May

SCIUTTO: Well, President Obama is set to hit key battleground states for his former Vice President Joe Biden. But we are seeing a preview of some of his attacks on President Trump already. Have a listen.</s>BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Central foundation stones of a democracy is the idea that you do not -- you do not allow the politicization of the criminal justice system, the intelligence system, the military, right? That is stuff that you keep out of politics --</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right --</s>OBAMA: Because it's too dangerous.</s>HARLOW: Let's bring in Ron Brownstein, senior editor for "The Atlantic", and Molly Ball; national political correspondent for "Time". Good morning, guys, I feel like I used to see your face every day, and I'm so glad you are back with us. Let me --</s>RON BROWNSTEIN, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: It's good to be here --</s>HARLOW: Let me -- it's good to have you guys. If I could start with you, Ron, actually, about like this incredibly troubling piece on the economy in the "New York Times" this morning, and as this relates to the rest of this race, right? And I'm sure you saw it and it lays out the research from Columbia University and Notre Dame, pointing out 8 million Americans have slipped into poverty since May, and yet you have Congress fighting and bickering, not reaching a stimulus deal, and Karl Rove writes in the "Wall Street Journal" this morning, "the president must close on his strength, the economy, which is where people trust him", right? Is that right?</s>BROWNSTEIN: Yes --</s>HARLOW: Is that the right assessment? And then, is anything going to be done for these folks in the weeks ahead of the election?</s>BROWNSTEIN: Well, there are two questions. I mean, first -- yes, I mean, in polling, the economy has been Trump's one remaining strength over Biden. And you know, you can go back to the Democratic convention and say they chose to focus on the personal qualities of Biden, and as a good man and contrasting it with Trump rather than driving a clear economic message. And a lot of things they have done well in this campaign, that's probably the biggest blind spot. They have not driven a strong economic message, but the fact that Republican senators are not making a deal --</s>HARLOW: Well, neither is Pelosi. Neither is Pelosi --</s>BROWNSTEIN: Well, but I think -- but I think that, you know, the fact that McConnell and it is reporting to the White House how reluctant his caucus is, I think is a pretty ominous sign about what they think Trump's chances are, and what they think their own chances are, and they simply don't want to put in place something that might help a Joe Biden presidency.</s>SCIUTTO: Molly Ball, early voting has been off the charts this cycle. "Washington Post" reports in total 15 million Americans have already cast their ballots. You look at a state like Georgia, it's already 50 percent up on where we were at this point in the 2016 cycle. According to the "Washington Post" analysis in the crucial swing states that do provide a partisan break down of who is voting early, Democrats outnumber Republicans two to one. I wonder if it's possible that the president's attacks on mail-in voting sort of is burning him here to some degree, right? And that you have many Democrats coming out and saying, hey, I want my vote counted, I'm going to go wait in line and I'm going to go early.</s>MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, TIME: Yes, I mean, I think anecdotally that's certainly something that I have heard from a lot of voters that because of both the president's attacks and the controversy surrounding the Postal Service, that convinced a lot of voters that in order to make sure their vote gets counted, they should vote in person, but go early to make sure that they get it done, that they don't forget or run out of time. But we do see tremendous grassroots enthusiasm really on both sides surrounding this election. The major worry for Democrats is of course they're happy to see these numbers, but they're very nervous to, A, keep it going and, B, make sure that those are not just people who would have otherwise voted on election day, that they're turning out --</s>SCIUTTO: Right --</s>BALL: All their voters from start to finish.</s>HARLOW: Ron, you write so much and so well about the suburbs and how critical they are in every election, pretty especially this election. You literally -- you actually heard the president begging suburban --</s>SCIUTTO: Yes --</s>HARLOW: Women, begging to vote for him. He knows their importance. At the same time as we saw in the September data, four times as many women, Ron, have dropped out of the workforce in a month, in the month of September than men, four times, over 800,000 women and a lot of this is because of COVID, lack of child care, et cetera. My question to you is have either candidate -- they all want the suburban women, but I don't see major policies and them highlighting here is our plan for all these women who are being so adversely affected.</s>BROWNSTEIN: Great question. I mean, first, President Trump is heading for the largest deficit ever among college-educated white women, and for that matter, college-educated white voters overall who simply look at, you know, the way this is unfolding, kind of the chaos, the vitriol and do not see themselves anymore in that coalition symbolized by Cindy McCain endorsing Joe Biden. The bigger question -- kind of the other -- you know, the unresolved question is what happens to more blue-collar white women, Hispanic and African-American women numbers are going to be off the charts for Biden even as the men may underperform for him. But the blue-collar white women, you know, they're still varying in the polls, they were critical to Trump's winning last time particularly in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, the states that decided the election. There is some evidence that he is eroding with them, and I think it is largely because they have concluded that they will remain economically vulnerable so long as the coronavirus is out of control, and also as in 2018, health care is proving a very powerful issue for Democrats with those women, and that is front and center with Amy Coney Barrett.</s>HARLOW: Yes.</s>SCIUTTO: Molly, before we go, the president's blitz strategy, right? Running up in the final days of the election appears to be a rally strategy, right? Going out, appealing to the base, get the base out there as much as possible as opposed to expanding, right? Going more after middle of the road voters or voters still on the fence. Do Republican strategists, do Republican lawmakers think that's the right approach?</s>BALL: Sure, the answer is not necessarily. Going back to Ron's point, you know, for a lot of these particularly college-educated suburban women who have been turned off by the president, it's primarily his behavior that alienates him.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes --</s>BALL: So, you have the president going back to the tricks that he believed worked for him in 2016, where he was able to drive a message that Hillary Clinton did not have the, quote-unquote, "stamina", and that she was not as active on the trail. The question is, does that help or hurt him this time around? It may be that the very tactics that he believes buoyed him to victory four years ago are this time actually not an advantage and potentially even harming his chances.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes, well, listen, we're going to know, right? Nineteen days to go, Ron Brownstein, Molly Ball, thanks to both of you. I know we'll probably talk about this again.</s>HARLOW: Thanks, guys --</s>SCIUTTO: Coming up still this hour, new details about why a phase three coronavirus vaccine trial has not yet restarted in the U.S., that from AstraZeneca more than a month after it was paused.

California Republican Party Refuses to Remove Ballot Collection Boxes; Robert Mueller Investigated Trump Ties to Egyptian Bank.

SCIUTTO: All right, now to the latest on this election when it comes to your vote. In-person early voting is now under way in the key swing state of North Carolina. In Virginia, a judge has reopened voter registration there until midnight tonight, this after a computer outage took that system down on Tuesday, which was the original final day for registration. So good news for voters who still need to register. Plus this, Republicans in California say they will not comply with the state's cease and desist order calling for the party to remove what are unofficial ballot drop boxes.</s>KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's a good question. In case you're wondering what the Republican Party of California is thinking, the spokesperson said in an interview, "If they want to take us to court, then they can go ahead and take us to court." So likely a big political showdown, just in the weeks ahead of November 3rd. But let's talk about what's going on here, because not only did the California Republican Party refuse to comply with the cease and desist, they actually had officials saying that it was going so well, they might add new drop boxes. As we know, the party had started putting up these unofficial drop boxes in at least four counties in California. Some of them were falsely labeled as official boxes, and many of them were unsecured with no one nearby. Now of course, this alarmed state officials who, as you said, issued this cease and desist, saying that they had broken the law in two ways. One, that the only person who could put out a drop box was an actual election official. And two, while California does have a third party law -- meaning that someone else can cast your ballot for you -- both parties have to sign the ballot, which obviously can't be done if there's just a random drop box sitting out there, no one nearby to sign. This is what the Republican Party had to say. They said, "The program you now falsely claim to be illegal is a perfect example of what you," quote, "'proudly' stated to be permissible just last year. In this case, voters have decided, for themselves, that they trust the staff and volunteers at their local political party headquarters or their church or a business that they patronize, to securely deliver their completed VBM ballot to the appropriate election official." Now, I want to point one thing out here, the letter also showed that it looks like they're taking steps to comply with the law. They said they're removing any boxes that were falsely labeled official, as well as having people man the boxes to sign those ballots.</s>HARLOW: Thank you for that. I guess maybe to court this goes for California? Not sure. We appreciate it.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes.</s>HARLOW: Again, let's pull this on-screen so you can see. If you have any questions in your state, your county, where you vote, polling information, registration status, go to CNN.com/vote. Now to a CNN exclusive, we have learned that federal prosecutors including Special Counsel Robert Mueller spent more than three years investigating whether money flowing through an Egyptian state-owned bank could have backed millions of dollars Donald Trump donated to his own 2016 campaign.</s>SCIUTTO: Ultimately, the Mueller team was simply not able to obtain all the information it wanted, nor could the U.S. attorneys in D.C. who continued the probe until this year, and decided then not to pursue charges. CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez joins us now. Evan, this was not publicly know. I'm just curious, did they conclude there was nothing here or did they just get to the point where they couldn't give a hard answer on this?</s>EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It's the latter. Look, this is an investigation that was conducted with utmost secrecy, given the sensitivity. It started soon after Trump won the presidency back in 2016, it continued until this summer. And it's never been described publicly. We spoke to more than a dozen sources familiar with this effort in addition to what we learned from some of the newly released court documents and hints in public records. Two of those sources told CNN that FBI investigators first became interested in the case after intelligence including from an informant suggested that Trump's last- minute $10 million injection into his campaign, less than two weeks before the 2016 election, could have been backed by money that came from overseas through an Egyptian state-owned bank. Now, it's not clear that investigators ever had concrete evidence of a relevant bank transfer, but multiple sources told us that there was more than enough information to justify seeking a subpoena in court, and to keep the investigation open even after Robert Mueller's probe ended. The investigation of a potential campaign finance law violation began with the FBI and the U.S. attorney here in Washington before Mueller took it on, and it was largely conducted by Mueller's investigators. And when Mueller was done, the investigation continued. It was handed back to the U.S. attorney here in Washington who, soon afterwards, told a court that it was still a robust probe but they felt that they never got all of the records that they needed from that Egyptian bank. It was just this summer that the case was closed with no charges filed. And among the chief questions, guys, that prosecutors sought to answer but never did was whether Donald Trump was supported by or indebted to a foreign power. Mueller had no comment when we reached out to him, and a senior advisor to the Trump 2020 campaign, Jason Miller, told CNN, quote, "President Trump has never received a penny from Egypt."</s>HARLOW: OK, there is a lot there but there's a lot more, Evan. So if we could just go through what else is here, whether there were discussions of trying to get to the bottom of this by subpoenaing the president's financial records?</s>PEREZ: There was. Multiple sources tell us that last year, federal prosecutors here in Washington proposed pushing for the president's financial records. The decision went to the then-U.S. attorney, Jessie Liu, who, after weeks looking over the investigative records, decided to reject the subpoena request. Sources told us that Liu decided that there wasn't enough to meet the standard for the subpoena. But interestingly, she did not close the case. By the way, the Justice Department, we reached out to them. A senior Justice official told CNN in response to this reporting, quote, "The case was first looked at by the Special Counsel investigators who failed to bring a case, and then it was looked at by the U.S. attorney's office, and career prosecutors in the national security section, who also were unable to bring a case. Based upon the recommendations of both the FBI and those career prosecutors, Michael Sherwin, the acting U.S. attorney, formally closed the case in July."</s>HARLOW: OK.</s>SCIUTTO: All right, so the special counsel's office, it was known -- you and I have talked about this a lot -- for keeping their various investigative threads under wraps. But there were never any leaks about this even after the case was ultimately closed. How did they manage to keep it secret?</s>PEREZ: Well you know, that's one of the enduring things about Mueller. The Egyptian investigation was never mentioned in the Mueller report. It is listed among 11 cases that Mueller transferred to other prosecutors when his investigation ended, but that entry was redacted. The only public indication was this secretive court proceedings over a subpoena that Mueller's team issued to an unnamed foreign company for records, and neither the company nor the details of what prosecutors were looking for was ever publicly discussed. But CNN was told that it was a fight with this state-owned Egyptian bank. A spokesman for the Egyptian president did not comment when we reached out to them.</s>HARLOW: And also, Evan, this investigation continued under Bill Barr's Justice Department. Did prosecutors explain why?</s>PEREZ: Yes, that's one of the interesting things. We know that they told the court that the investigation was continuing robustly and (ph) quote, "Very much a live issue." We know about the consideration of a subpoena last year, but that's about it until it was closed. The fact of the matter is that the case was closed without investigators really getting an answer to their ultimate question: Was Donald Trump supported by or indebted to a foreign power -- Poppy and Jim.</s>HARLOW: Such important reporting, Evan.</s>SCIUTTO: Absolutely.</s>HARLOW: Yes, thanks very much.</s>PEREZ: Thank you.</s>HARLOW: So many families have been torn apart by this pandemic. Coming up, the heartbreaking story of an Arizona family who has lost eight of their loved ones. Also, their message this morning to the president.

Leon Panetta Discusses Trump Peddling "Bats-- Crazy" Conspiracy Theory on Bin Laden Raid & Trump Refusing to Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power; Update on Coronavirus Responses Around the World

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: President Trump's penchant for promoting false claims and his obsession with his predecessor, former President Obama, are colliding in what one Republican congressman tells CNN is -- and I am quoting -- "batshit crazy" conspiracy theory. The president retweeting a post by a QAnon supporter alleging that an Osama bin Laden body double was killed during the 2011 raid and the terror leader himself is still alive. The former Navy SEAL who claimed that he personally killed bin Laden responded to Trump with a tweet of his own, saying, quote, "Very brave men said good-bye to their kids to go kill Osama bin Laden. We were given the order by President Obama. It was not a body double. Thank you, Mr. President. Happy birthday, U.S. Navy." With me now is Leon Panetta. He served as CIA director and defense secretary as well. You were among the officials overseeing the bin Laden raid. What is your reaction to the president promulgating this, I mean crazy -- I will save the expletive -- but this crazy theory?</s>LEON PANETTA, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR & FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: You know, this president, every time he has to face the truth, he comes up with lies. Every time he is -- is told that something in fact happened, he comes up with conspiracy theories. And now is basically portraying the raid as having gone after somebody who was other than Osama bin Laden, which is absolutely incredibly ridiculous. So ask the SEALs. Ask me. Ask Bill McRaven, Admiral McRaven, who headed up that mission. Ask President Obama. And all of us know that that mission went after Osama bin Laden, got Osama bin Laden and sent a clear message to the world that nobody attacks the United States of America and gets away with it. That's the fact. That's the truth. And that's what we all know to be the case.</s>KEILAR: Yes. I mean, I suspect you never thought you would have to answer a question like this. It's just so absurd. You know that, right? It's like it's not funny, but it's just absurd. That's the quality of it. President Trump has said that he doesn't know much about QAnon other than they like him. In Georgia and other states, there are Republican congressional candidates who openly tout their ties to QAnon. Do you think that the Republican Party is becoming a conspiracy theory party?</s>PANETTA: Well, you know, I -- I sure as hell hope not. But at the same time, the more I see these kind of crazy conspiracy theories going around, the more there are groups like QAnon and other conspiracy type groups that breed on these falsehoods about America, about who we are, it's part of the frightening path that we have seen politics take over these last few years. And it's part of the reason that we're polarized and divided, because there are these phony presentations that try to play to people's anger and fears and hatreds. And, you know, I would think that responsible people, both in the Republican and Democratic Party, would be willing to stand up and denounce these conspiracy theories for what they are, baloney, And try to embrace, frankly, the beliefs that we all hold dear about what this country is really about, what we believe in to be fact and truth, and the fact that we embrace an America that doesn't have to rely on lies in order to know that we're the greatest country on earth.</s>KEILAR: You know we are less than three weeks from Election Day. There are millions of Americans who have already cast their ballots in early voting, and President Trump is continuing to cast doubt on the results and whether he will accept them. Let's listen to what he said.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (voice-over): They spied on my campaign and they got caught. They tried to overthrow the president of the United States, and they got caught. And then they stand up, so innocent, and they say, will you do a fair transition. Well, they didn't do a fair transition. They spied on my campaign long before I won because they thought I was going to win.</s>STUART VARNEY, FOX HOST, "VARNEY & CO" (voice-over): You're implying that if you don't think it's fair, you won't leave the White House, which means you won't concede?</s>TRUMP: I'm not saying anything.</s>KEILAR: Do you think that this is bluster on his part, or do you think this thing he's teasing could actually play out in some way?</s>PANETTA: I think he's doing what he's been doing for the last four years, which is to constantly sow the seeds of doubt about our institutions in our democracy. Try to undermine the things that we hold dear in this country, whether it's freedom of the press, whether it's -- it's the courts, whether it's the Congress, whether it's, you know, the belief of the American people in a country that has the right to vote and determine who shall be president of the United States. He's attacked every one of those institutions because, in many ways, as president, he fears those institutions because they are the very checks and balances in a free society. And, so, you know, the things that the president is now saying, questioning our right to vote, questioning whether or not we'll have free and fair elections in this country after over 200 years of precedent where we have been able to vote in this country freely and fairly and elect our leaders. During wartime, during crisis times, we have always been able to do this. And now to have a president kind of imply that somehow there's some kind of conspiracy and fraud out there that will deprive him of the presidency, you know, all of that just has to be totally rejected. Because I think the American people believe in our system, believe in our right to vote, are going to cast their votes. And when they cast their votes, this president is going to find that he's no longer president of the United States, whether he likes it or not. That's going to be based on an actual count of the votes of actual voters. That's what counts in our democracy, not the rantings of this president.</s>KEILAR: Secretary Panetta, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on.</s>PANETTA: You bet.</s>KEILAR: As the resurgence of COVID grips the rest of the world, new video shows a packed party tent just before one country shut down bars and restaurants for four weeks. Plus, another damning example of the Trump administration telling the public all was OK in the early days of the pandemic while saying the exact opposite in private.

Dozens Refuse to Cooperate after COVID Event, Accuse Contact Tracer of "Working for Satan".

KEILAR: You know it's going to be a long day when someone accuses you of working for Satan. But that's exactly what happened to a health official in Michigan for doing her job, investigating a coronavirus case linked to a four-day men's retreat at a church in the state's Upper Peninsula. When you look at the uptick of cases in the state, which is now close to 140,000, you understand why it's necessary to follow up on any leads from any possibility super-spreader event. But members of that men's retreat did not want to cooperate. Instead, they threw out insults about the devil. Nick Derusha, is the president of the Michigan Association of Local Public Health, which is keeping track of super-spreader events, potentially like this one. Nick, tell us what happened here.</s>NICK DERUSHA, PRESIDENT, MICHIGAN ASSOCIATION OF LOCAL PUBLIC HEALTH: Well, actually -- thank you for having me today.</s>KEILAR: Yes.</s>DERUSHA: As we have moved through the pandemic here, we've encountered more and more resistance with our case investigators and contact tracers. So it's becoming more common when our folks reach out to let us know they've been exposed to a case or they're a case themself, to have folks that sometimes aren't honest or maybe don't provide all the details we need to ensure we are able to investigate cases or follow up on contacts. And the men's retreat was one example of that. We had someone who attended the retreat, later tested positive. So we reached out to the organizers to obtain information of other individuals who may have been there and been exposed, and we did not get the cooperation we needed in order to reach out successfully.</s>KEILAR: One thing I do want to point out</s>KEILAR: Yes, go on.</s>DERUSHA: -- Brianna, is that the person that called our member Satan actually was not someone that was involved in the men's retreat. It was another case that we were investigating where that had occurred.</s>KEILAR: OK. That was another case. But the resistance is something that you're seeing consistently. And I wonder if, do you get a sense of why people are resistant? Do they just not want to believe they are exposed? Are they embarrassed? Do you get a sense of why they're being resistant to contract tracing?</s>DERUSHA: I think there are a host of reasons. I think some folks, like you have stated, they don't want to believe this is a serious illness. They don't want to cooperate with our investigators for that reason. But in addition to that, I think we have some other folks, that they need to work. If they have to isolate or have to quarantine, it's hard for them to do that. I think embarrassed, being embarrassed is also a part of that as well. They don't want us reaching out to say this person was positive or someone they were around was positive. So it's a host of factors that are playing into that. But it's really difficult for us in public health to be able to contain the virus if we aren't getting accurate information when we're doing our investigations and contact tracing.</s>KEILAR: Yes, it is very difficult. Nick, you're doing very good work. So is your team. Nick Derusha, thank you so much for being with us.</s>DERUSHA: Yes, thank you very much, Brianna.</s>KEILAR: Coronavirus hits the campaign staff of Senator Kamala Harris. Who tested positive? And what it means for upcoming events. With 19 days until the election, an aide having tested positive there. Plus, college football's reckoning as outbreaks soar among teams.

Poll Shows Biden has Double-Digit Lead Nationally against Trump

JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS: Senior citizens, Biden, plus ten, Trump won that group. I want to start with the women right there, the gender gap there. 26 points in the current NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, it was 27 points in the last NBC/Wall Street Journal. It has been 20 points or more throughout the year in that polling. It was 19 points in 2018, and that's why Democrats won the House in a blue wave and Nancy Pelosi is speaker. If that number does not move, can Donald Trump win?</s>NEIL NEWHOUSE, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: Look, John, it's not just women, truthfully. It's women and men. It's white women, white men. The president is not doing nearly as well among his base, among white men, as he did before. We have significant challenges between now and Election Day. It is a very, very narrow path to kind of thread this Electoral College needle. I mean, as you point out, I mean, Trump is behind by double digits nationally, swing states are against him. The key thing here is time is running out and our opportunity is running out as well. So we're looking at a potential October surprise or something that comes down the road to change things around but it's -- we're running out of time in this campaign.</s>KING: Running out of time, Neil says, Margie. Look, there's always a gender gap, at least in recent years, there's a gender gap. But when you look at Biden plus 26, Margie, in this NBC/ Wall Street Journal poll, you see similar gaps in some of the key battleground states. What is it? Why is it that the women of America, if things don't change, just as they did in 2018, are going to send a message of repudiation to this president?</s>MARGIE OMERO, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER, GBAO: I don't know if the segment is long enough to catalog all the things that the president has done that has upset women voters of a variety of backgrounds across the country. But I should just point out, and I think Neil mentioned this, is that the gender gap is not just about Biden's advantage among women, it's the difference between women and men, and that gap is actually not that wider than it has been in past elections across presidential elections. It's just that men are supporting -- I mean, they're supporting Trump. It depends on the poll, but by a smaller margin than we've seen in past elections. Some polls have shown Biden and Trump tied with men. So it's not just about how well Biden is doing with women, it is that Biden is doing, relatively speaking, better with men than Democrats have in other years. So I think all of that suggests not just the massive hurdle and obstacle Trump has to regaining any ground with women, but it's also that he's, you know, not doing well really across the board. I mean, that's -- with numbers like these, that's clearly the pattern that emerges.</s>KING: Right. So, Neil, to that point, we all lived through 2016, so, every day, I get up and I kick every rock I can find and look underneath it. Every state poll that comes out, every national poll that comes out, you're just looking. Is there something that tells you, here he comes, right, Trump is going to come back like he did in 2016? And you keep looking under every rock, and please correct me if I'm wrong, at the moment, I don't see it. And to Margie's point, one of the things, let's look at where the president does have advantages. This is, again, the NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, where the president has advantages over Joe Biden but there's a big but among men, Trump is now have plus five. In 2016, he won that constituency by 11. Among white voters overall, Trump is plus four. He won by 20 in 2016. Among whites with no college degree, he is plus 31 but he won that constituency by 37 points. So not only is he going whooped among women voters and shellacked among traditional Democratic constituencies, but he's lost part of his own base there. Why?</s>NEWHOUSE: Numbers are a terrible thing when you have to like defend them like this. But, John, the bottom line here is this is a referendum on President Trump. And with his job approval at no more than 44 percent of the vote, that puts him at a significant disadvantage. And when you look at the difference between 2016 and 2020, first of all, 2016, Democrats were, you know -- probably felt the same way about President Trump's chances as they do today. But there are some significant differences. Number one is turnout. There's going to be a huge turnout this year. Every poll we do, everything on the ground indicates a huge turnout. Second the early vote, the NBC News/Wall Street News Journal poll shows that 18 percent of voters have already voted and they're voting for Biden by 73 to 24. THIRD is, Biden's not Hillary Clinton. Biden's image is a net positive or right around net positive. Hillary was under water by ten points. And then fourth thing is the calendar, lack of opportunity. You have one debate left, and by that point in time, a quarter of Americans will probably have voted. So we're running out of time and this is a referendum on President Trump. And given his numbers right now, that does not put him in a good position.</s>KING: It does not, especially if you're a Republican running for Senate or governor or House or dogcatcher in any of these battleground states. It looks bad at the moment. Neil and Margie, thank you so much. Margie, you get more time next time, I promise. I wanted to start with the Republican today because the numbers aren't so great. Thank you so much. Up next for us, hospitals under severe pressure in several states as the coronavirus case count surges.

Obama Expected to Hit Campaign Trail for Biden Next Week

KING: Former President Barack Obama is warming up for a return to the campaign trail. Florida, Wisconsin, North Carolina, states under consideration for late campaign Obama appearances and he is also the star in Democratic videos about how to navigate new pandemic voting rules. Now, we know there is zero love lost between President Obama and his successor, who, of course, spent years promoting the bogus idea that Obama wasn't born in the United States. That was one topic when President Obama sat down with former aides for a podcast.</s>BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: As I was writing the book and I was just looking through some of the old stuff about Trump -- Trump was complimentary of me for like the first two years. So like, yes, Obama seems like doing a great job, you know? Thinking, you know -- and, essentially, what happened, because the guy just decided he wanted attention, right, whether it was to promote Celebrity Apprentice or whatever, he looked and saw what was being fed and he said, oh, if that's -- if that's what folks want, I can do that with even less inhibition, right? So with even less of a -- I don't need a dog whistle, I'm just going to go ahead and say it. And I'll just -- and that's how the whole birtherism shtick came about. Our country has always had this battle, right, between these darker impulses to exclude, to dominate, to rig the game in favor of certain folks and not others. And then, the other side of it has been to expand and embrace the dignity and inherent worth of every individual, regardless of what they look like or where they come from. And that tug of war is always going to be there.</s>KING: CNN Political Correspondent Abby Phillip joins me with more. It is interesting to listen to the former president, Abby. I've heard him talk about Trump and birtherism in not so common tone, and it is understandable. But this is an interesting moment for him and for the Biden campaign to get him back on the trail, trying to energize turnout in key places in the final days.</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, I think that this is a reprisal for Barack Obama of this very role that he played even four years ago when -- he played the role of the closer for Hillary Clinton as well. But, obviously, the stakes are -- I mean, you heard him say it, he believes the stakes are even higher than they were then. What struck me about this interview was -- I mean, I think just there -- this is not taking sort of some kind of aloof higher ground on this, he's really digging in on his criticism of Trump personally, from a policy perspective. And then I think what you will see from him, obviously, is trying to convey a sense of urgency, particularly to black voters in some of those states that you just showed that this is not like, you know, 2016 when you did see a downward swing in turnout compared to when he was on the ballot. I just don't know for sure that that is going to be effective. But, obviously, you can see from what he is doing now and what they have plans to do, that they're going to try their hardest to get that message out. And if there's anybody that can do it, it is probably Barack Obama.</s>KING: And it's interesting, because a lot of Democrats scoffed at Joe Biden at the beginning of the campaign, when he was essentially running on unity and competence, right? Unity and competence, I know how to run the government. But listen here. Even the guy who brought us hope and change back in 2007-2008 says, yes, competence should be part of your choice.</s>OBAMA: I would say to anybody who is skeptical about what government can do generally is to just take the example of when we were in office. You might not have been happy with everything I did, all my policy choices. I didn't eliminate poverty in America. But when we had a pandemic or threat of pandemic, we had competent people in place who would deal with it.</s>KING: He's essentially saying adult leadership that understands and respects government and its institutions, not a bad thing.</s>PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, the hope and change candidate after eight years as president is now sort of like the bureaucratic competency president. And I think that that is actually the Joe Biden message, which is that this pandemic has shown what kind of President Donald Trump is. And I think you'll see President Obama reiterating that probably a lot because, for all of the criticism of the Obama administration, I think that there is a sense that there wasn't this sort of topsy-turvy nature to his presidency, and he is basically making the case that Joe Biden would be another version of that, just more of that same kind of -- a certain kind of stability. So that's the case that he's going to be making and it's totally different from what he made to voters when he was running. But this is what the entire election is about, how the coronavirus pandemic was handled and how Joe Biden would handle it as president.</s>KING: Abby Phillip, grateful for the reporting and insights. Interesting, 19 days to come. Up next, wrinkle as part of that, the California Republican Party says it will not follow a judge's order to remove unofficial ballot boxes the state GOP has placed across California.

California GOP Refuses to Remove Unofficial Ballot Drop Boxes.

KING: California's Republican Party says it will not comply with the judge's order to stop using unofficial drop boxes. The boxes have been placed in at least four California counties, including Los Angeles and Orange County. State officials say they are illegal and the judge's order calls on Republicans to remove them by the end of the day today. Joining me now to discuss the importance of this, our CNN Contributor, Ben Ginsberg, also a very accomplished Republican election lawyer. Ben, so much for law and order, I guess. The California Republican Party ignoring a judge's order, saying it will. But put this into context. Is this a big deal, a medium deal, no deal?</s>BEN GINSBERG, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, California is a contested election really only for a few congressional races. So it will not have direct impact on the presidential race. It's interesting that the California Republican Party is pro-drop box because, by and large, Republicans around the country have been trying to restrict the use of drop boxes, especially in Texas and Ohio, for example. Now, what's interesting about the California's situation is that it has a ballot harvesting law. That's a process where individuals can do sort of mass collections of absentees. That if there isn't been fraud found for it at least gives the appearance of potential fraud. And so the Republicans in California, a badly outnumbered group, have decided on this somewhat puckish tactic of helping their own ballot harvesting process. I'm not sure it affects any elections, but it is the theater of the pre-election runoff.</s>KING: A theater of the pre-election runoff. And you have the secretary of state in California, listen to him here last night on CNN, saying, you have to stop, it's wrong.</s>ALEX PADILLA (D), CALIFORNIA SECRETARY OF STATE: -- of custody, and we don't have the requirements or regulations for these fake drop boxes as you do for official drop boxes, number one, the security and integrity of the box itself. This is wrong no matter who is doing it. And it is not just the security of the ballot that's in question here, it is the transparency, voter confidence itself.</s>KING: He says it is wrong, no matter who does it. But you see it in part as sort of a payback. The Republicans saying if you are going to have unions and other groups harvest ballots, we're going to do something too? Is that how you see it?</s>GINSBERG: Yes. I mean, look, John, if an individual was standing in there collecting the ballots, then that's perfectly compliant under the California ballot harvesting law. Again, it goes to the problems with ballot harvesting. Supreme Court is hearing a case on ballot harvesting in Arizona, probably in January. But the practice about harvesting is I think the Republicans have found a tactic to get around the advantage that California Democrats do have with unions and others collecting these ballots. It is a bad law.</s>KING: It's so bad. You're not only an election lawyer, you're plugged in with Republicans around the country. I just want to put up a headline from the Drudge Report. 15 million already voted, record turnout alarms Republicans, lines as far as the eye can see. Is that true? Do your Republican friends tell you, holy God, what's going on out there, we're in trouble?</s>GINSBERG: Yes, they are. I think that this is sort of the impact of the president saying, don't vote by mail. It's still -- this is a heavy, heavy initial turnout. What isn't true is whether it expands to total turnout numbers a lot but it is certainly a leading indicator that Democrats are getting votes out and those votes will be in the bank come Election Day.</s>KING: And we will count them 19 days from today. Ben Ginsberg, I appreciate your insights. Thank you very much.</s>GINSBERG: Thanks, John.

COVID-19 Cases Rising in the U.S.; Hoover Institution May Have Received Private COVID-19 Warnings from White House in February; Donald Trump and Joe Biden Set to Hold Town Halls Tonight.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That is an average of 1,000 American lives lost each day. And with more than 51,000 new cases being recorded daily nationwide and 35 states reporting an uptick in infections, there is no plan to stop this in place from this administration. Instead, President Trump is holding huge super-spreader events, while pushing the widely disputed theory of herd immunity, which would require at least 60 percent of Americans to contract the coronavirus. And currently, only an estimated 10 percent of Americans have antibodies. It's a strategy that leading public health organizations and experts are condemning, including Dr. Anthony Fauci.</s>ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There will be so many people in the community that you can't shelter, that you can't protect who are going to get sick and get serious consequences. So this idea that we have the power to protect the vulnerable is total nonsense. You'll wind up with many more infections of vulnerable people, which will lead to hospitalizations and deaths. So I think that we've just got to look that square in the eye and say it's nonsense.</s>KEILAR: Now, we're also learning that vice presidential nominee Senator Kamala Harris has cancelled her campaign travel through the weekend after one of her staff members tested positive for coronavirus. Harris tweeted that she has gotten two negative results this week and continues to not exhibit any symptoms. And with the fall wave of this pandemic upon us, I want to bring in Dr. Adrian Burrowes. He is a family medicine physician in Florida. Dr. Burrowes, it is great to see you. And earlier this year, we were seeing hospitals -- particularly in your state -- facing maximum capacity as outbreaks were coming through. Are they now at more risk heading into the winter than they were at the onset of this pandemic? Or do you think that things will be better?</s>ADRIAN BURROWES, FAMILY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: No. Thank you, Brianna, for having me on. So I believe that we are in worse shape, going forward, than we were back then, primarily because, you know, we're bracing ourselves for this second wave of coronavirus in this country. And if anyone's paying attention, you're seeing what's happening now in Europe. So we're going to have to deal with a second wave of coronavirus on top of our normal flu season. And you know, every time we hit these cold-weather months, people become more susceptible to these viral illnesses. And so I have a lot of concern regarding that.</s>KEILAR: OK, so you're looking toward this colder weather with concern. And Florida has reported more than 3,300 new cases today, they more than doubled yesterday's death toll, 144 people died in just one day there. In the meantime, your governor, Ron DeSantis, is allowing football stadiums to operate at full capacity. What risk is the governor posing here to Florida residents with these proposals?</s>BURROWES: So unfortunately in Florida, our governor has gotten it wrong repeatedly regarding coronavirus. Any -- when we had our shutdown, when we were doing things, you know, really trying to take the lives of our residents into account, we were cutting down on the cases and moving forward in a good fashion. All of a sudden now, he's released -- opened up all of these things. And now, asking for 90,000 people in stadiums to be side-by-side. How do you social distance that way? And I think that's completely asinine, first of all. Second of all, the governor continues to treat the lives of Floridians like they're disposable. And I think that that's been not only in the state of Florida but nationwide, the problem with how we've dealt with coronavirus.</s>KEILAR: I want to know what you think about the vaccine timeline as it's shaping up. I think a lot of people are very hopeful that there will be one soon, that they'll be able to get it very soon. Dr. Fauci signaled that a vaccine may be widely available by April of next year, but the World Health Organization announced today that when it comes to healthy young people, they shouldn't expect a vaccine for themselves until 2022.</s>TEXT: WHO Warns of 2022 Vaccine Timeline: "There will be a lot of guidance coming out, but I think an average person, a healthy young person might have to wait until 2022 to get a vaccine." Soumya Swaminathan, chief scientist, World Health Organization</s>KEILAR: So are both of these timelines true? Is this just about staggering priorities? Make sense of this for us.</s>BURROWES: Yes. So I know a lot of people have a lot of anxiety regarding this, and so I do think that that timeline, when we're talking about probably the middle -- you know, early to middle part of 2021 is likely when the vaccine will start to roll out, but that's when it's going to be given to health care providers, high-risk populations like the elderly, people with significant diseases like kidney disease, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, that type of thing. And so healthy young people tend to fall a little bit lower down on that risk -- when we're doing risk stratification because they typically tend to do fairly well with the virus. So at the beginning, those high-risk groups will have the priority medically and so it could very well be that you know, young healthy people may not be vaccinated until the following year.</s>KEILAR: All right. I know that will be tough for some people to hear. Dr. Burrowes, thank you so much.</s>BURROWES: Thank you so much.</s>KEILAR: Now to a remarkable new report from "The New York Times." As the White House was minimizing the coronavirus to the American people, officials were delivering stark warnings in private to conservative donors and investors. Let's go back now to late February, and this tweet from the president where he declared, "The coronavirus is very much under control in the USA... Stock market starting to look very good to me!" That was on February 24th. It was the same day that some of his economic advisors privately addressed a group from the conservative Hoover Institution, and he said that it was too early to estimate the pandemic's impact -- that's according to a memo written about the meeting by one of its attendees and obtained by the "Times." The next day, Larry Kudlow, head of the president's National Economic Council, went on CNBC and told the nation this.</s>LARRY KUDLOW, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: We have contained this, we have contained this. I won't say airtight, but pretty close to airtight. What we know now, as of today, this is very tightly contained in the U.S. The human tragedy side? Difficult, horrible. The economic side? There is no tragedy in the United States.</s>KEILAR: Once he was behind closed doors though, Kudlow had something quite different to say. The memo obtained by the "Times" shows Kudlow told the Hoover board members that COVID-19 was, quote, "contained in the U.S. to date but now we just don't know." And if you're thinking this all sounds familiar, you're right. Because as we know from audio recorded by veteran journalist Bob Woodward, the president's staff were following their boss' lead. Here's what he told Woodward just a few weeks later.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via telephone): I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down, because I don't want to create a panic.</s>KEILAR: With me now is Mark Mazzetti, Washington investigative correspondent for "The New York Times" and one of the reporters behind this piece. He's also a CNN national security analyst. Mark, it's good to see you. And the bottom line here is that elite investors seem to have gotten a heads up about how bad things could get, which is certainly moneymaking information. Tell us how they could act on that.</s>MARK MAZZETTI, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, recall that this period of time is when there's great uncertainty about the coronavirus in the United States: the economic impact, the health impact. Any kind of hard information about COVID at that time was critical from a health perspective and, as markets were teetering, for investors. And as you laid out, during this period of time, this couple days, this group of the Board of Overseers of the Hoover Institution had these meetings with economic advisors to the White House as well as other people. After those meetings, one of the members of the Board of Overseers sent a memo to a large hedge fund named Appaloosa Management, run by David Tepper, who was already cautious by that point about coronavirus. He was nervous about where it might go. But this kind of stark memo then circulates around the financial world, and from Tepper's hedge fund to others. And according to the people we interviewed, some people used it to inform their trading. In other words, made money off it. So it's kind of a glimpse into how this privileged information can quickly be used to gain financial advantage.</s>KEILAR: And this morning, the Treasury secretary, Steve Mnuchin, responded to the report in this way.</s>STEVEN MNUCHIN, SECRETARY OF TREASURY (via telephone): I saw the headline this morning, this is the first I've seen of it. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen a headline out of "The New York Times" that exaggerates things or puts them in a wrong perspective. I've had my own personal attacks from "The New York Times" doing this to me. I -- you know, I can't imagine this occurred. By the way, there were plenty of investors who had their own views of what was going on at the time and were very concerned, rightfully so.</s>KEILAR: He's saying it's an exaggeration, the reporting. What's your response to that?</s>MAZZETTI: Well, I'm not sure he said he's actually read it not. He said that --</s>KEILAR: That's a good point.</s>MAZZETTI: -- he didn't agree with</s>KEILAR: Mark, great reporting. Thank you so much for joining us, Mark Mazzetti, we appreciate it, with "The New York Times."</s>MAZZETTI: Thank you.</s>KEILAR: Voters were supposed to see President Trump and Joe Biden debate for a second time tonight. Well instead, the two candidates will compete for voters' attention in dueling town halls on two different TV networks at the exact same time. Right now, President Trump is holding a rally in North Carolina, which is a state where coronavirus cases are on the rise. CNN's Ryan Nobles is at that rally for us. And Ryan, are we getting a preview of what the president will say tonight at the town hall, do you think?</s>RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It certainly seems that way, Brianna. Of course, North Carolina, an enormously important state for President Trump in this election. He won here in 2016 by only four points, there's a new poll out this morning from "The New York Times" that shows the Trump campaign trailing by four points. And to your point about what he's going to talk about tonight at the town hall, you have to imagine the coronavirus is going to come up, his own coronavirus infection and his response to it. But also his relationship with Dr. Anthony Fauci. And President Trump actually just talked about Dr. Fauci a few minutes ago here in Greenville, North Carolina. Listen to what he had to say.</s>TRUMP: -- my friend, and he's a nice guy, Tony, Tony Fauci. He's a nice guy. He said this is not a threat, this is not a problem, don't worry about this,</s>NOBLES: So a couple of interesting things to point out in those remarks from the president, Brianna. First of all, again, he is mocking people who wear masks, and then also criticizing the guidance and advice that Dr. Fauci has given. And yes, in the beginning, Dr. Fauci did talk about whether or not masks were appropriate to wear in March. But since then, has been very consistent that it's one of the best ways to curb the spread of the virus. And then also, he suggested that he's going to keep Fauci around as if there's been some sort of a discussion of removing him from his post. And then finally, he calls Fauci a Democrat. And it's important to point out, Brianna, that Dr. Fauci has worked for both Republicans and Democrats. He describes himself as apolitical. And furthermore, as the president attacks him here in North Carolina, he's also concurrently running a campaign ad that features Dr. Fauci touting his response to the coronavirus -- an ad, I should also point out, that Dr. Fauci says his takes his words out of context. So a peculiar attack for the very least, Brianna, and it's interesting that at this stage of the game he would even bring Fauci into the conversation -- Brianna.</s>KEILAR: Yes. Peculiar indeed. He should bring him into the conversation as having the Task Force be a bigger part of what's going on with the coronavirus response, but it isn't. Ryan Nobles, live for us on the trail in North Carolina, thank you. NBC is currently facing a good bit of criticism for scheduling a town hall at the exact same time as Biden's previously scheduled event. With me now is CNN chief media correspondent and the host of "RELIABLE SOURCES," Brian Stelter. And, Brian, you have some new reporting on the conversations that took place between NBC, which is playing host to the president's town hall, and ABC, which will host Biden's, which was previously scheduled, as this was all being worked out. Tell us about this.</s>BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. ABC previously had a town hall with Trump, NBC had one with Biden. So now they're doing the opposite, now it's Opposite Day, they're having the other candidates both tonight. But ABC's town hall with Biden was scheduled almost a week ago. So ABC went first, NBC finally was able to confirm this Trump town hall. They scheduled it at the exact same time for reasons that still don't make sense to me. And last night, an executive from NBC called ABC, tried to work it out, tried to get ABC to move the Biden town hall. And ABC basically said no. They said, we assigned this time slot first, we booked this event first, why would we move to try to help out NBC? So there's some network rivalry stuff going on here, Brianna. And this has been a big misstep for NBC's the news boss, Cesar Conde, who took control of the news assets a few months ago. Here is his statement today defending NBC's decision to go up against Biden and schedule this head-to-head match-up. Conde saying, "Our decision is motivated only by fairness, not business considerations. We aired a town hall with V.P. Biden on October 5 at 8:00 p.m. If we were to move our town hall with Trump to a later time slot, we would be violating our commitment to over both campaigns access to the same audience and the same forum. Conde saying, "We hope voters will watch both discussions -- ours will be available at any time, free and on demand." So he's basically saying set your DVR, watch on YouTube. That way you can watch both town halls. But the voters are the losers here, Brianna. There should have been a real debate tonight. And since there is no real debate, it makes no sense to have these events live head-to-head on competing networks.</s>KEILAR: Brian, thank you so much for that reporting. Brian Stelter of "RELIABLE SOURCES." Next, long lines again today in places like North Carolina and Texas as eager voters are looking to cast their ballots. But Joe Biden's campaign manager is warning this race is a lot closer than you might think. Plus, former President Obama, speaking out on a podcast. Why he says the conspiracy theories that President Trump pushes will be around well beyond Trump's time in office.

America's Fall Wave Builds Fast as Infections Surge; Backlash Over Dueling Trump-Biden Town Halls Tonight; Bar Owner Battling Coronavirus Slams Trump's Response.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The government is going to see how things go over the next ten days or so and see if these measures can help to flatten the curve of new infections. If not, well, the chancellor says she is prepared to bring in more stringent ones.</s>JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS: I hope to see you back here tomorrow. Brianna Keilar picks up our coverage right now. Have a good day.</s>BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN RIGHT NOW: Hello. I'm Brianna Keilar, and I want to welcome viewers here in the United States and around the world. The U.S. is far from where it needs to be on coronavirus infections as we are heading for colder weather that will force Americans indoors. Americans are dying of COVID-19 at an average rate of 700 people per day. More than 51,000 new cases are being recorded each day. And just last hour, the CDC released a dire new forecast, projecting a death toll of 240,000 by the first week of November. And yet, President Trump is set to hold a crowded rally this hour, the reality of the fatal pandemic absent from his messaging less than three weeks from Election Day. He and his advisers continue to embrace herd immunity, which would require at least 60 percent of Americans to contract the virus. And, currently, only an estimated 10 percent have antibodies despite the death toll. And now, the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, is sounding the alarm.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There will be so many people in the community that you can't shelter, that you can't protect, who are going to get sick and get serious consequences. So this idea that we have the power to protect the vulnerable is total nonsense. You will wind up with many more infections of vulnerable people which will lead to hospitalizations and deaths. So I think that we just got to look at that square in the eye and say it's nonsense.</s>KEILAR: More than a dozen a public health organizations are echoing Dr. Fauci, condemning this herd immunity approach, which, to be clear, is not a public health strategy despite the White House selling it at such. That includes the World Health Organization, which is also now shedding light on a vaccine timeline. One of the organization's chief scientists said this in part, quote, there will be a lot of guidance coming out that I think an average person, a healthy young person might have to wait until 2022 to get a vaccine. The coronavirus numbers that we are seeing reveal the fall wave of this pandemic is officially upon us. I want to bring in our CNN Senior Medical Correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen. And I think, Elizabeth, we all expected first wave, second wave, but it kind of feels like we never even got out of the first wave, that it is like two waves with barely a trough between them. So, what does that mean for the months ahead?</s>ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, I think that's a perfect way to put it. You can think of it as sort of surge after surge. What it means for the coming months is really not good. There was a lot of hope over the summer. Let's try to get these numbers down so that we go into the winter with the lowest possible case load, but that's not what's happened. If you take a look at cases across the United States, most states are seeing an uptick. There is a 16 percent increase in cases nationwide from the previous week with more than 50,000 cases, new cases every day. And, Brianna, the reason why we want it to be in a good position for winter, which we're not, but the reason why we wanted to be in a good position is really two reasons. One, once it starts getting cold, you can't have those nice, socially distanced picnics or barbecues. It's too cold to be outside, so people are going to head inside. They will be in closer contact with one another. Also, the flu season is upon us. It is going to start sort of November, December, January. Those numbers, you know, could get high. And then you're overloading hospitals, not just with COVID cases but also flu cases. Brianna?</s>KEILAR: Yes, we have many challenges ahead here. Elizabeth, thank you so much. Instead of watching the originally scheduled presidential debate tonight, there will be dueling town halls with the president and Joe Biden. Here is how we get to this point 19 days before the Election Day. The president refused to do a virtual debate after he was infected with coronavirus, so that debate was canceled. Biden scheduled a town hall with ABC and NBC decided to hold one with the president at the exact same time. So, in short, the president forfeits the game and instead of it counts as a loss, he is given another game to play but without an opponent. When the commission offered a virtual debate following the president's positive coronavirus diagnosis, he bailed.</s>DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm not going to waste my time on a virtual debate. That's not what debating is all about. You sit behind a computer and do a debate. It's ridiculous.</s>KEILAR: He doesn't like interviewing remotely unless, of course, it is with his pals. The president doesn't mind at all, calling into Fox or appearing remotely with Fox, even though that's exactly what he'd do during a virtual debate. But this is hardly the only excuse that he has peddled over the years in regards to debates.</s>TRUMP: I heard that the commission a little while ago changed the debate style, and that's not acceptable to us. I beat him easily in the first debate. They want to change the rules. That's what they want to do and allow the moderator to cutoff the microphone.</s>KEILAR: The format and rules have pretty much remained the same for the last 30-plus years, through eight elections. The only reason they're contemplating a change now is because of the president's behavior, interrupting his opponent at a feverish and unproductive pace. But, of course, it is not just the format.</s>TRUMP: This is a commission that's a very left-leaning commission. I frankly wouldn't have even used it, and I could have done that except it's been used for years. But this is a Clinton/Obama-type commission.</s>KEILAR: No. The commission is, and has long been, made up of both Republicans and Democrats. And the commission's current chairman was chairman of the RNC for six years. But even then, the blame always seems to turn to the moderator.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals.</s>TRUMP: I don't have a lot of respect for Megyn Kelly. She's a lightweight. She gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. And you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever. I'd like to know, Anderson, why aren't you bringing up the emails. It's nice to one on three. Well, first of all, I guess I'm debating you, not him. But that's okay. I'm not surprised. I end up with Chris Wallace. Chris was terrible. He was protecting Biden the whole night.</s>KEILAR: Two of those moderators were actually from his favorite channel. But the excuses can also be much shallower.</s>TRUMP: Last time, I had a big problem. They oscillated my mics when I had the one debate, three debate with Hillary. And on the first debate, they oscillated the mic and they oscillated it very, very seriously.</s>KEILAR: He baselessly insists audio issues were because of sabotage. To lower expectations, there is even a pattern of the president baselessly accusing his opponents of juicing before debates.</s>TRUMP: We should take a drug test prior, because I don't know what's going on with her, but at the beginning of her last debate, she was all pumped up at the beginning. And at the end it was like, oh, take me down. She could barely reach her car. Well, he's on some kind of an enhancement, in my opinion. And I say, we should both. I should take drug test, so should he. Because we don't want to have a situation where a guy is taking some kind of a --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's like athletes --</s>TRUMP: No, no. I want to take one. I'll take one. He'll take one. We should both take a drug test.</s>KEILAR: Of course, that is not fact-based, and it's absurd, but it's also par for his course. And before the first debate, President Trump and his favorite channel even pushed the old earpiece myth.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Trump team asked to inspect the ears of each debater for electronic devices or transmitters. The Biden team has not consented to that.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things going back and forth over issues like earpieces.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the earpiece, what's the truth? Does the Trump campaign standby the fact that you believe that the Biden campaign refused an ear check?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is correct.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president wants everyone to look in the ears to see if there is a device in there. Joe Biden says, no way.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bathroom breaks, transmitters and drugs.</s>KEILAR: It is a cynical, cynical strategy. The president and his allies push and push conspiracy theories and misinformation. They repeat them ad nauseam so that millions of viewers just end up adopting it as fact.</s>TRUMP: Now, he is already saying that he can't do the debates because of COVID. Do you believe it?</s>TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: Imagine Biden spending six hours on stage with Donald Trump trading jabs on live television? He can't do that, so he's not going to do that.</s>GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Trump needs to have an alternative if Joe backs out. And I put it at 90 percent he's not going to debate.</s>SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Normally, a candidate challenging an incumbent pushes for as many debates as possible, not Joe Biden and not his supporters. They want him to stay hiding, and that's for good reason.</s>JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Now, it's -- we're going to debate President Trump. Actually, Trump cheats. I don't think that's going to happen.</s>KEILAR: But what's funny about the president and his enabling propagandists at Fox, when it's time to pay up, when they are proven to be wrong, there is no accountability, there is no apology. They just drop it, like their absurd predictions never even happened. And then they move on to the next bogus B.S. that they cycle on repeat. The irony here though is, it is not Biden who refused to show up to a debate. It is Trump. With me now is Carl Bernstein, our CNN Political Analyst, journalist and author. And, Carl, NBC says that if they move the event to a different time slot, they would be violating their agreement to give both candidates the same platform. I know you see it differently, so explain to us how you see it.</s>CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, it's nonsense. The idea of the debates and the town halls going back to John Kennedy, Richard Nixon, first presidential debates, is to give the people of the America, the voters, the largest possible audience to see these two candidates and what they have to say and to serve the democratic electoral process. And what NBC has done here is indefensible. It could easily show this debate and schedule it for later in the evening. It could re-run it later in the evening. It could tape it, delay it, but what they have chosen to do, NBC, is to be conned by Donald Trump, and that is what has really raised the most serious journalistic questions and the reason that so many people who work at NBC and MSNBC are so upset by what NBC has done here, capitulating to Donald Trump's demands that will allow him to cut into Joe Biden's audience, essentially, because MSNBC, CNBC, these cable channels, ABC which is broadcasting Biden, has no similar cable channels. So, obviously, Trump will get the larger audience. But the real thing is that NBC has capitulated to an absolutely unacceptable demand that serves the interest of one of the two candidates. there is absolutely no defense for this.</s>KEILAR: Does this stack the deck in favor of President Trump, in your view, or would you not go that far to say that?</s>BERNSTEIN: No, it stacks the deck against the American people by not giving all of us the opportunity to watch both debates at separate times. That's the problem with it. We can -- sure, we can watch reruns of it and all the rest, but there is no reason, whatsoever, going back to the purpose that these debates were founded on and the town halls that this can't be accommodated in a fair way. No, I would think, in fact, that because NBC is so under the gun now that Savannah Guthrie, who is going to be the town hall moderator, I would hope and expect that she is going to be even tougher with Donald Trump because NBC is under a microscope now. And that also suggests --</s>KEILAR: Well, Carl, let me -- can I ask you about that. Because Savannah Guthrie is - -she is a good interviewer and she is a --</s>BERNSTEIN: That's what I said.</s>KEILAR: Yes. Like you said, she is a sharp lawyer. So, you know, in that way, you know, she's very -- she's talented in that way with asking questions and following up. Do you expect that actually, you know, the president, this isn't going to be a cake walk for him and he could get some very tough questions?</s>BERNSTEIN: Of course, I expect that. But we got to go back to a basic question here. NBC News, one of the premier networks, has aggregated the public trust and for reasons that are absolutely inexplicable except commercial ones has allowed this presentation to go forward on this schedule, which serves the interests of one of the two candidates instead of the interest of the people of the United States. I was the ABC bureau chief in Washington in 1980 and '81. And at the time, myself and the two other bureau chiefs from CBS and NBC established a rule that we would not take on our air events from the president of the United States, Carter and then Reagan, that had a political -- a sly political tinge. And the idea was that we would not be manipulated by the president into giving air time on the president's demands instead of journalistic principles. And that precedent that we established back in 1980 with NBC News has now been aggregated by NBC News in such a way that they're going to be hurt by this. It's a shame, and they ought to take some actions over there and say, look, we're going to reschedule this thing even at this late hour. If Donald Trump walks and doesn't want to come on the air at a later time, then the hell with it. But there is no journalistic reason, whatsoever, to undermine the interest of the people of the United States by favoring one candidate, which is what's happening here. This is really going to enable Donald Trump to crow, oh, I got the better ratings and all the rest. This isn't about a rating contest. That's not what these debates and town halls are about. So, NBC ought to be really reconsidering their decision, even at this late hour because they have been conned and manipulated. And let me add here, all of us in journalism, all the networks have been conned at one time or another by Donald Trump, but we've gotten smarter and we've gotten better at it. And one other suggestion for both NBC, ABC, CNN, all of us, I think going forward in terms of fact-checking, maybe we need, and especially tonight, some kind of simultaneous fact checking, whether it's a crawl at the bottom of a screen when one of the candidates presents outrageous lies and falsehoods, we need to be calling it as quickly as we can in real-time. We're going to make up some new rules that serve the best attainable version of the truth instead of the interests of the candidates. And Donald Trump has run roughshod over the truth, as we all know. That's his basic M.O., his basic methodology. And in the interest of journalistic principle, we need to alter the way we're covering these debates and town halls in the next couple weeks and all the appearances that we put on the air of both presidential candidates.</s>KEILAR: Carl Bernstein, thank you so much. It is always so good to see you.</s>BERNSTEIN: Good to be with you.</s>KEILAR: A bar owner who hosted a Donald Trump Jr. event is now suffering from a severe case of COVID and he says he wants to punch President Trump over his response to it. He's going to join me live next. Plus, former President Obama emerges and responds to President Trump accusing him of treason. And a super-spreading event and now dozens of men are refusing to cooperate, telling public officials they, quote, work for Satan. This is CNN special live coverage.

COVID Surges, U.S. Adds 59,000 Plus Cases Wednesday; CDC Forecast Projects Up To 240,000 U.S. COVID-19 Deaths By November 7th

BEN GINSBERG, LAWYER AND PARTNER AT JONES DAY: Putting their votes out and their votes will be in the bank come Election Day.</s>JOHN KING, CNN HOST: and we will count 19 days from today. Ben Ginsberg, I appreciate your insights. Thank you very much.</s>GINSBERG: Thanks John.</s>KING: Thank you and hello to our viewers in the United States and around the world top of the hour. I am John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing a very busy news day with us. 35 of the 50 United States are reporting an increase in new Coronavirus infections today. And there's a new COVID economic punch too. New unemployment claims are also on the rise. The unwelcome Coronavirus disruption includes the 2020 campaign. The Democratic Vice Presidential Nominee, Kamala Harris, cancelling a North Carolina campaign stop. The reason all too familiar. A staffer tested positive for the Coronavirus. The Biden Campaign says the Senator was not exposed and that her shift to online events for a few days is out of an abundance of caution. The Coronavirus is also the reason why there's no presidential debate tonight. The president's diagnosis scrambled the original plan. And instead, voters now have to choose who they're watching prime time, the President on NBC or Joe Biden on ABC. The president is on the road. A North Carolina Trump rally first, then to Miami for his Town Hall. The president again says the United States is doing just fine versus the virus, and you need not worry. But the numbers don't lie. Nearly 60,000 new infections added to the U.S. case count just yesterday, Wednesday. All the data tell us we're climbing toward a new peak, not as the president says coming down. Dr. Anthony Fauci calls this math self- evident, and says the United States enters the next months "In a compromised position." Look to Europe, leaders there already speaking out considering another round of Coronavirus shutdowns in some cases. Look to the President of the United States, and you hear something very, very different.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens if you get a big spike in cases in the United States? And cases are rising. What would you do there?</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right. We're not doing any more lockdowns and we're doing fine. We're not doing any shutdowns. We learned about the disease. Young people, 99.9 percent, right, are in great shape, strong immune systems. The younger the better, it's hard to believe.</s>KING: We're doing fine. That's the President of the United States, you heard him right there. We're doing fine. That was the President of the United States just a couple hours ago. We're doing fine. Let's take a look at the state trends. 35 states, there are 50 Unites States, 35 of them heading in the wrong direction. More new infections right now compared to the data one week ago. 35 states trending up. If that's your definition of doing fine, that's an odd definition. 12 states holding steady. Only three states reporting fewer infections now than a week ago. You see all of that red and orange that is new Coronavirus cases heading up. Three states in fact setting records. Ohio, North Dakota, and New Mexico, setting records for their single day case count. That means those three states are heading up as well, part of the national surge. When the cases go up, wait a few weeks, sadly, we have learned over the last eight months, the deaths tend to go up as well. 23 of the 50 states, nearly half, reporting more deaths from Coronavirus today compared to the data a week ago, if you look at it, it's just about everywhere. The deep red states, 50 percent. Ten of them, ten of the states reporting 50 percent more Coronavirus deaths this week than the data one week ago trending in the wrong direction. Here's the case time line. And again this is where we are now right now. If you just want to look at the trajectory, you see the red line is going up. That is not fine. You do not want to be going up as it gets colder as more people go indoors. About 18,000 cases a day on average heading into the summer surge. We got close to 80. Some days we're above 60 for many days, from 20,000 up to 60,000 in the summer surge. So question is, if we're starting about 40,000 and we have a fall surge, how high we will go. That is the concern of public health experts. That concern is deepened by this. The deeper the blue on the map, the higher the positivity rate. How many people are getting tested in your state, what percentage of them is positive? Well, that's 40 percent in Wyoming right now, 32 percent in South Dakota, 22 percent in Idaho, 20 percent in Iowa, 22 percent in Wisconsin. You get the point. High double digit positivity means more cases today and the likelihood of those people spreading it and more cases tomorrow. When positivity goes up, cases go up, hospitalizations which had come down start to go back up. So we are months away from a vaccine. Some at the White House say well, we'll have herd immunity. Just let this play out. More people will get infected; they will start to develop immunity. But the scientists, the top experts say that idea is simply nuts.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There's about 30 percent of the population has underlying conditions that make them more susceptible to getting the adverse events and outcomes of serious disease with COVID-19. If you just let things rip and let the infection go, no masks, crowd, it doesn't make any difference. That quite frankly, George is ridiculous. Because what that will do is that there will be so many people in the community that you can't shelter, that you can't protect who are going to get sick and get serious consequences.</s>KING: Joining our conversation, our CNN Medical Analyst and Former CDC Detective, Dr. Seema Yasmin. Dr. Yasmin, grateful for your time today. So you heard the president, he says no lockdowns, no lockdowns, no lockdowns, he said it repeatedly.</s>KING: He also says we're doing fine. We're simply not doing fine if we are going up towards 60,000 new infections a day. But at this perilous moment, as we start to climb up a hill, what should a country be doing, and even if you have decided the economy cannot sustain a national lockdown. What should a country be trying to do to turn those numbers around?</s>DR. SEEMA YASMIN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes. America is definitely not doing fine. We should be doing many of the things that other nations have done to successfully at least control this pandemic. Instead, the U.S. has the world's worst COVID-19 epidemic and the highest COVID death rate compared to any other developed nation, John. In fact, there was an article just published in Yammer (ph) a few days ago, the study that found that if we were even on track with other developed nations like Spain, for example, that we would have had a death rate that was lower by 47 percent, meaning that about 90,000 to 100,000 Americans who've died from COVID-19 would still be with us today. Like that's how bad our COVID-19 response has been, because we're refusing on a national level, sometimes on a statewide level to implement these measures that we know work. And as you mentioned, we have 60,000 Americans newly diagnosed yesterday. Last week, we had four days straight of more than 50,000 new infections. 50,000 infections diagnosed each day. And the health care system is already signaling that it can't cope with that. There were 30,000 Americans sick with COVID-19 in hospitals last week; it's already up by more than 5,000 this week. So the uptick is happening and it's not even happening slowly. And in places like North Dakota, I am really worried about; they're saying the health care system is at capacity. And in fact in Bismarck, there's only one available ICU bed because of COVID-19. So that's not only bad for COVID patients, that's bad for your grandmother if she has a heart attack, or a kid who gets into a car accident. This has a knock-on effect on so many other people and so many other health areas.</s>KING: And so, as we have these conversations just as we're speaking, the Centers for Disease Control updating its forecast now. It projects 240,000 U.S. deaths from COVID-19 by November 7th. You see 217,000 on your screen. So 25,000 more Americans to die in just the several weeks ahead, just the several weeks ahead as we go into this rise in the case count. And so, you get that when you see that, the projection, the president's own CDC, saying 240,000 Americans, that number will go up in just a couple of weeks. Then you understand the exasperation of the experts like Dr. Fauci, who has been saying please separate and wear a mask. The president mocks mask use, and he packs people into rallies. Listen to Dr. Fauci now trying to urge Americans I know after Halloween comes Thanksgiving. You cannot, must not do what you normally do. Listen.</s>DR. FAUCI: It is unfortunate because that's such a sacred part of American tradition, the family gathering around Thanksgiving. But that is a risk. You may have to bite the bullet and sacrifice that social gathering unless you're pretty certain that the people that you're dealing with are not infected.</s>KING: There's no question, if you look at the data, the CDC saying it plainly that more and more people are having more and more gatherings. And that's why we're getting more and more cases.</s>DR. YASMIN: Yes. And it can be these pretty small gatherings sometimes, John, not to mention that there are states across the U.S. that are allowing large gatherings, only capping them at 500. I mean, that's huge. And that's how easily we see that these can turn into super spreader events. Now is not the time to let our guard down. The fact that hospitalizations are increasing in about 41 states shows that not only are we not doing the right things to prevent transmission of the Coronavirus, but we're also doing all of the wrong things to try and curb the spread of flu. And we're in for a double whammy right now, we are in for this convergence of both the COVID-19 pandemic and the flu epidemic. So now is the time to really wear a mask, even if it happens that you live in the U.S. and mask mandates are really not happening, despite all of the evidence from other nations, the mask mandates can save lives. There was a study from the University of Washington, John, they estimated that about 95 percent of Americans were to wear a mask for the next few months, we'd save 80,000 lives. That's what's really at stake here. So mask wearing, getting your flu shot, doing physical distancing, even when the president, even when your local officials are not telling you to do that, that's the right thing to do in order to save your life and protect those around you as well.</s>KING: We started the conversation with the president saying, we're fine. One of the thing that frustrates public health experts is he is traveling the country now are saying, I recovered, they gave me a cure. I had Coronavirus, they gave me a cure. There is no cure. But he had an experimental treatment that you and I couldn't get if we came down with Coronavirus, at least not as quickly as he did. And that's one of the things Dr. Fauci worries about.</s>KING: As you see the case count going back up, as you see the hospitalizations going back up, Dr. Fauci is afraid; this is me adding to him. But the president says one thing, but guesses what; most Americans can't get that kind of care. Listen.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When people say the president beat it, I'm not worried about it, what's your response?</s>DR. FAUCI: That's sort of like saying somebody was speeding in a car at 95 miles now or didn't get in an accident, so I can go ahead and speed and not get in an accident. There are also a lot of people who are his age and his weight which did not do as well as the president did.</s>KING: It is interesting. We've discussed this before. But right now in the final days of a campaign, Dr. Fauci, he is not saying it this way, but he seems compelled every day to go out and say pay no attention to your president, please listen to the science.</s>DR. YASMIN: Yes, absolutely because the president was essentially a guinea pig. He received experimental medical treatments that haven't even been tested on that many people. You and I, if we get sick, your grandmother, if she falls ill, they're not going to have access to those kinds of sophisticated medical and experimental medical treatments. You cannot compare the standard of health care that privileged level of having personal physicians that the president got to what most Americans got. Think back to the summer, John, when people in Houston were dying of COVID in their homes, not getting any medical care, because they couldn't even get to a hospital because that's how overwhelmed the health care system was. That's not any comparison to the kind of care the president is getting. But not only is he being cavalier about his own health, about adults he is also saying really an inaccurate things about young people. Because not every young person has a robust immune system. We've seen kids get really sick and even die with COVID-19. So this misinformation, this disinformation that he is spreading is costing lives and will continue to do so, which is why we need people to listen to Dr. Fauci, listen to the scientists, and not listen to him.</s>KING: Dr. Yasmin, grateful. I'm listening to you. That's one of the reasons we bring you back to put science in the program.</s>DR. YASMIN: Thank you.</s>KING: Grateful for your time and insights today. Thank you so much. Up next for us, we return to campaign 2020. The president is on his way to North Carolina soon. Kamala Harris was supposed to go to North Carolina, that trip cancelled because a Biden Campaign staffer testing positive for Coronavirus.

Senator Harris Staffer Tests Positive For COVID-19, V.P. Nominee Off The Campaign Trial Temporarily

KING: More now on today's decision to keep Kamala Harris off the campaign trail for a few days. The Democratic Vice Presidential Nominee is supposed to be in North Carolina right now. But those plans were cancelled after a member of the senator's campaign staff tested positive for COVID-19. A campaign flight worker also tested positive. Let get to CNN's Arlette Saenz traveling with the Biden Campaign in Philadelphia. Arlette, what's the latest?</s>ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well John, the Biden Campaign says, they're doing this out of abundance of caution after two members of the traveling team with Kamala Harris tested positive for Coronavirus. This morning, the campaign announced that Harris' Communications Director and then a non-campaign person who was a member of the flight staff also tested positive for COVID-19 last night. Senator Harris herself yesterday taking a Coronavirus test and testing negative. Let me run you through a bit of what we know about this incident. So these two individuals were on an October 8th flight with Harris. On this flight, the campaign says Harris wore an N95 mask as did both individuals who were on that flight. Now the campaign says that Harris doesn't meet the CDC definition of close contact for exposure, and both of these individuals tested negative immediately before and after that flight. Now, the campaign also says that these two individuals attended personal events in the days after they flew with Harris, and then returned back to work and tested positive before returning to work, before that scheduled trip that they were supposed to take today. Now, both of the individuals did not have contact with Biden or Harris 48 hours prior to testing positive, and Senator Harris was last tested on Wednesday with a PCR test, she tested negative, but she is expected to be tested again today. They have cancelled all of her campaign, in- person campaign events up through Sunday. And as for Joe Biden, the campaign has said that he did not have contact with these individuals in the few days prior to their positive test. So he is going to move forward with his in-person campaigning, starting tonight, here in Philadelphia, a Town Hall that he is going to participate in. Now the Biden Campaign believes they can still safely campaign in these final weeks before the election. But what you're seeing here, John is the Biden Campaign practicing what they preach. They have been transparent, were very deliberative in the information they are providing to the public, surrounding these Coronavirus diagnoses, a stark contrast to what we've seen play out at the White House over the past few weeks, John.</s>KING: They're hoping their caution will be rewarded, not punished by voters. Kamala Harris off the trail for at least a couple of days. Arlette Saenz, I appreciate the live reporting there. We'll keep on top of that story. Up next for us, Arlette is in Pennsylvania, one of the big swing states, and the source of a giant 2020 battle.

CA GOP Refuses To Remove Unofficial Ballot Boxes Deemed Illegal; Trump-Biden Battle Intensifies In Pennsylvania.

KING: Pennsylvania and its 20 electoral votes are viewed by both the Trump and the Biden Campaigns as crucial, and the Commonwealth's 2016 embrace of Trump helped him shatter the so-called blue wall of industrial states. Now in the final days of 2020, Joe Biden holds the edge, and believes that Pennsylvania win would block any Trump path to victory. Our Chief Political Correspondent, Dana Bash was recently visiting Pennsylvania, she is back to join us now. Dana?</s>DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: John, as you know, in 2016 President Trump was the first Republican to win Pennsylvania in almost three decades. And he did it by boosting the vote in conservative areas much higher than Republican candidates before him. Well, Trump's Campaign Manager, Bill Stepien, points to a surge in new Republican voter registrations as evidence that there are even more votes to squeeze out of his base. So we went to a key Pennsylvania county to check it out.</s>DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: A line forms outside well before opening waiting to enter the Trump House.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're ready for the next group to come in.</s>BASH: A Mecca of sorts for president's supporters in Southwest Pennsylvania where Trump's record turnout four years ago helped deliver his surprise Pennsylvania victory and the White House. Leslie Rossi created the Trump House in 2016 where she pushed disaffected Democrats and never before voter to choose Trump.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We gave people a chance to come to, to believe they could win.</s>BASH: Now Trump supporters show up daily for swag and yard signs and help registering to vote.</s>SCOTT HARRER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: We need Trump in there again. I'm 65. I think it's time to register.</s>BASH: Have you not voted ever?</s>HARRER: No.</s>BASH: Rural Westmoreland County seeing a surge in Republican registrations. They help with that here too.</s>RITA BLAIR, FORMER DDEMOCRAT: I changed my registration from Democrat to Republican.</s>BASH: Why?</s>BLAIR: From what I have seen in last past couple of years, I'm ashamed to say I was a Democrat.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a great honor to have you here.</s>BASH: Joe Biden is ahead in Pennsylvania polls, yet his campaign motto is every vote matters. Campaigning here in Westmoreland county this month which Hillary Clinton did not in the 2016 general election.</s>BASH: It's not an area Democrats come and campaign very often but you're here why?</s>JILL BIDEN, JOE BIDEN'S WIFE: I'm here because like I said I - we are not taking any vote for granted.</s>BASH: Gina Cerilli is County Commissioner of Westmoreland P.A. Ten years ago she was Miss. Pennsylvania in Donald Trump's Miss USA Pageant. Now she is an elected Democrat working to blunt Trump's advantage here.</s>GINA CERILLI, WESTMORELAND COUNTY COMMISSIONER: In 2016, Donald Trump was a fresh face. He was new to politics. Everyone was excited. He made big promises. Bring back jobs.</s>BIDEN: In small town Pennsylvania signs matter. Trumps are everywhere, big and bold. But Biden's are out there, too.</s>CERILLI: When you see signs like this, it makes the Republicans and the Democrats that voted for Trump in 2016 realize I'm not alone.</s>BASH: A big Biden challenge, his supporters are being COVID careful.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never did we think we would be meeting by Zoom.</s>BASH: Phyllis Friend, Head of Democratic Women of Westmoreland County organizes from home. She is clear right about the democrat's goal here in Trump country.</s>PHYLLIS FRIEND, HEAD OF DEMOCRATIC WOMEN OF WESTMORELAND: We can't win Pennsylvania for him, but we can add to the total numbers.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey David, this is Joe and I'm volunteering for the Trump Campaign. How are you doing?</s>BASH: As for Republicans, they never stopped traditional ways of getting out the vote. Knocking on doors, walking in neighborhoods in masks, and using a GOP data driven app to find and persuade voters.</s>BRITTNEY ROBINSON, RUNS THE PENNSYLVANIA RNC OPERATION: Depending on whom that voter is we're able to tailor that message at the door and on the phone to how we think we need to target that voter and turn them out.</s>BASH: Given the president's struggles in the suburbs, boosting the vote here is critical for Trump.</s>BASH: How important is it for him to get his numbers even higher than it was four years ago?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do think that we need to increase our voter turnout here for the president to offset some of what may be happening in the southeastern part of Pennsylvania.</s>BASH: Back at the Trump house, Leslie Rossi shows us the log of visits from thousands of Trump supporters.</s>BASH: What do you think this year?</s>LESLIE ROSSI, THE TRUMP HOUSE OWNER AND CREATOR: Oh, my numbers have tripled, tripled. Four years ago my work was really hard here. I had to convince the voters to vote for the candidate. I had to convince them President Trump was the best choice for them. This time, I don't have to do any of that. They're all in.</s>BASH: Whether enough are all in could determine whether Trump can overcome the head winds he faces to win Pennsylvania and a second term. And Republicans we talked to in rural Southwest Pennsylvania where we traveled to a person, John, they were really candid about the fact that they understand the president has real problems in densely populated suburbs in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, never mind elsewhere. But right there, they really feel a lot of pressure to deliver big for Trump if he has any chance of winning the keystone state. And they know that, that could determine whether he wins a second term.</s>KING: A fascinating piece at a fascinating time at a fascinating place. Dana thanks for that. And let's continue the conversation with someone who knows this territory, quite well, Pennsylvania Congressman Conor Lamb. Congressman, grateful for your time today and you listened to the piece there from Dana. Let me ask you up front, look, the polls are bad for the president if you look at, and including in your part of the state right now. But the Trump Campaign says it has the secret weapon of newly registered Republicans, people coming out of the wood work who haven't voted in the past. Are you seeing that in your district and your area?</s>REP. CONOR LAMB (D-PA): We're seeing a little bit of that in the registration numbers, of course. I personally, I am not sure how many new votes that actually represents for the president. I think what they may be doing is going back and getting people who were registered as Democrats.

Standoff: CA GOP Refuses to Remove Unofficial Ballot Drop Boxes

KEILAR: The California Republican Party is defending its use of unofficial ballot drop boxes. I want to show you exactly what I'm talking about here. You have, on the left, pictures of official ballot drop boxes. Then, on the right, unofficial ballot boxes, which has been found in at least four counties. State officials calling the unauthorized boxes, quote, "illegal." The California GOP is accepting responsibility. Yes, indeed, they are putting out the boxes, but they say they don't have plans to stop. They're going to remove the word "official" from the side of the boxes, they say, but they will keep using them, blatantly disregarding the cease-and-desist order from the state. They have this to say in response to California's secretary of state, quote, "The program you now falsely claim to be illegal is a perfect example of what you proudly stated to be permissible just last year." I'm joined by CNN election law analyst, Jonathan Diaz. Jonathan, the GOP in California says it's not going to comply with the cease-and-desist order. How does it play out? And what happened to the ballots that go into the unofficial ballot boxes?</s>JONATHAN DIAZ, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: So it's unclear what is going to happen to these ballots that go into unofficial ballot boxes. And that's the problem that California election officials are trying to address by directing the California GOP to cease and desist their use of these boxes. There's two sets of California election laws at play here. Number one is the ballot drop boxes, which, in California, only election officials are authorized to establish and maintain. That way they can be sure that ballots deposited in the boxes make their way into election offices and are counted on Election Day. The other set of laws has to do with ballot collection. In California, a voter is allowed to designate another person to deliver collect and return their ballot for them, whether it's a relative, neighbor or a political party or a campaign volunteer. But it has to be one specific person. That person has to give their name, their signature, and their relationship to the voter. And so, if the California Republican Party wanted to have its volunteers or campaign workers collect ballots on behalf of Republican voters, they can do that. But it needs to be a person-to-person connection. They can't just set up a drop box the same way that an election office can and have voters deposit them in without having them designate a specific individual to turn in their ballot for them.</s>KEILAR: That seems so obvious. So what is the objective here on the part of the state party, of the California Republican Party?</s>DIAZ: I don't want to speculate as to what their motives are. But California is a universal vote-by-mail state. Every California voters gets their ballot in the mail. So it makes sense that the California Republican Party would want to encourage its voters to turn in their mail ballots. But it's the way they're going about it that's causing problems. They should be encouraging voters to deposit their ballots in the drop boxes that are maintained by California election officials. Or they should have, you know, individual volunteers or campaign members reaching out to voters, contacting them on a one-by-one basis to get the proper authorization to collect these ballots. I'll note that the Republican Party has taken a very different approach to drop boxes in other states. They are currently engaged in litigation in Ohio, in Pennsylvania, and in Texas, to try to limit the official use of drop boxes by election officials. And so the disconnect here is pretty stark.</s>KEILAR: Yes, it definitely is. Jonathan, thanks so much for making that clear. Jonathan Diaz, we appreciate it.</s>DIAZ: Thank you.</s>KEILAR: Be sure to watch "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon. Vice presidential candidate, Senator Kamala Harris, will be Don's guest. That will start at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN. Next, college football's reckoning as outbreaks soar among teams. The latest positive result is Alabama's head football coach. And my next guest says this was all utterly predictable.

College Football Reckoning as Cases Soar Among Big Teams

KEILAR: College football is facing a reckoning as coronavirus hits the SEC in a big way. Alabama head coach, Nick Saban, and the school's athletic director among those who tested positive for the virus. The same goes for 21 Florida players now forcing the conference to delay the game against rival, LSU. Before that, the Vanderbilt and Missouri game was postponed because of positive COVID tests and the subsequent quarantining of players. With me now is Christine Brennan, CNN sports analyst and sports columnist at "USA Today." Christine, it is great to see you. It's terrible to have to talk about what's going on here. You wrote, quote, "This was utterly predictable. And what's happening is utterly shameful." Did arrogance lead to this moment, in your opinion?</s>CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Absolutely, Brianna. Arrogance. And, among a lot of college football coaches and players -- this has been true for decades because I've covered this sport a long time -- there's a sense you can never show weakness. You can never have anything other than this grand, grand confidence. And it's a big-shouldered sport. We love it. I love college football. I grew up watching it in Toledo and the University of Michigan. But that is certainly right now the problem. The sense that college football can take on COVID. We know that just is not the case, that college football is going to have a difficult time handling COVID-19. You knew it when they decided to play college football, frankly. And now we see it in a bigger way, Brianna. Frankly, this is the riskiest roll of the dice we've ever seen in college life, frankly, not just college sports. And 18 to 22 years old being used as props so these colleges can make money and people can be entertain, which is great. But at what cost? And now we're starting to see the price in terms of cancellations. There are postponements of games. Obviously, the biggest name in the sport, Nick Saban, 68-year-old coach at Alabama, now has said he's COVID positive. Although, he says, thankfully, he is exhibiting no symptoms at this time.</s>KEILAR: At this time. And certainly, he'll be keeping an eye on that and those around him will be as well as the days go on here. Do you think the Big-10 had it right early on, even though they gave in?</s>BRENNAN: I do. I absolutely do. The Big-10 made the decision back in August not to play football and the Pac-12 followed suit. Dr. Anthony Fauci, Brianna, back in June, June 18th, said that to have football he thought it would have to be played in a bubble. There's no bubblizing these on college campuses. And there's no in NFL football either. But Fauci knew what he was talking about once again. So the Big-10 used -- relied on science. And the great minds of those wonderful Big-10 schools made a decision not to play. And a month later, they caved. It was basically FOMO, "fear of missing out," as they saw Notre Dame and other schools starting to play. And they caved. They totally caved. Shocked me. I'm -- full disclosure, I'm on the board, the 64-person board of trustees at Northwestern, my alma mater. I had nothing to do with the decisions being made in this area. Now the Big-10 is getting ready to play next week, as is the Pac-12. I think they would have looked really smart if they were sitting here today still not playing this game. Again, not because we don't want college football. It's because it's just not safe. It's not just the players, Brianna. It's also stadium workers. It's the janitors. It's the janitors who go home to their families that will be in those stadiums and those facilities because the Big-10 presidents, as well as other presidents of universities, have decided they are going to play football.</s>KEILAR: FOMO is real, as you say, Christine, is real, but the risks are so huge. Christine, thank you so much for coming on. We appreciate it.</s>BRENNAN: Thank you, Brianna. Thank you.</s>KEILAR: President Trump is making a pit stop in North Carolina on his way to the NBC town hall. And he's taking the opportunity to try to drag Dr. Anthony Fauci into politics again, something that he has repeatedly said he doesn't want to be involved in. Plus, an American tennis player is accused of fleeing Russia in a private jet after testing positive before a tournament there. We're going to explain why.

U.S. Tennis Player Sam Querrey Accused of Fleeing Russia after Testing Positive for COVID.

KEILAR: An American tennis player now in hiding after fleeing Russia on a private jet after testing positive. Fred Pleitgen is following this from Moscow.</s>FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're talking about Sam Querrey, from California, who is very well known for an extremely powerful first serve and lots of aces. He was supposed to play at this tournament in St. Petersburg in Russia. However, a day before the tournament was supposed to start, he and his wife tested positive for COVID-19. The organizers then say they put Querrey and his family into self- isolation in the hotel. But when doctors wanted to visit the family, he refused to open the door. They were also supposed to get tested again for the novel coronavirus on October 15th but they weren't there anymore. Surveillance cameras in the hotel showed that they all left the hotel in the very early morning hours of October 13th. And later, apparently, Querrey told the ATP that he had left Russia with his family on a private plane. And now, no one really knows where he is. We tried to reach out to Querrey's representatives, however, they have not gotten back to us. And the ATP has acknowledged that this incident happened. And they called on all players to provide by coronavirus protocols or risk jeopardizing these tournaments being carried out -- Brianna?</s>KEILAR: All right, Fred, thank you for that.

COVID Surges, U.S. Adds 59,000 Plus Cases Wednesday; Sen. Harris Cancels North Carolina Event After Campaign Staffer Tests Positive for COVID-19

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing this very, very busy news day with us. Coronavirus disruption simply everywhere today. The count of new infections is heading up, and dangerously so. The number of Americans filing for unemployment is also up again, proof the coronavirus recovery is on very shaky ground. And campaign 2020, also being disrupted. This was supposed to be debate night in America. Instead, 19 days to Election Day, Americans are forced to choose tonight between primetime town halls with each candidate. Joe Biden takes voters questions on ABC. The president is on NBC. The debate was called off of course because of the president's coronavirus case. He refused to switch to a virtual event. Well, a fresh example this morning of how the Democrats are handling all things coronavirus very differently than the Republican incumbent. The Democratic vice-presidential nominee, Kamala Harris, is canceling a North Carolina campaign event after a campaign staffer tested positive. The campaign says there's no reason to believe Senator Harris was exposed but it is protocols call for caution. So, she will do events online instead of in person for a few days now. The president is on the road insisting all is well and insisting he is immune. A North Carolina Trump rally first and then to Miami for his town hall. If truth matters to you, then you are at odds with the president. He says the virus is on its heels, and you need not to worry. The numbers simply don't lie. Nearly 60,000 new infections added to the U.S. case count yesterday, Wednesday. 14 states registering record highs in their daily average of new cases. All the data tell us we are climbing toward a new peak, not coming down. Dr. Anthony Fauci says the math is self-evident and says the United States enters the next month in quote a "compromised position." Look across Europe. What do you see? Leader after leader talking about the urgent fall challenge. Leader after leader urging more personal responsibility. Some imposing new restrictions. Look here, closer to home, and see denial and defiance. President Trump ignores the rising challenge and defies science and commonsense by packing rallies with supporters, shoulder-to-shoulder. Dr. Fauci calls that dangerous. Plain and simple.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I don't like to be pitted against what the president says, but it's so clear when you have congregate settings and so many people. When you're in a situation, when the community infection rate is there, you can't run away from or argue with the numbers. It's a high-risk endeavor.</s>KING: You hear Dr. Fauci talking about high risk, talking about the baseline of cases. Let's just look at the numbers. And they're heading simply in the wrong direction. Dr. Fauci for months has talked about shoving the baseline down. Well, we have 50 states. 35 of them, 35 out of the 50 states right now reporting more new coronavirus infections today than a week ago. 35 states trending in the wrong direction. Again, it's everywhere but public health experts will tell you, no coincidence. Look at the northern half of the country where it's getting colder sooner as we head into the autumn. 35 states trending up. 12 states holding steady. Only three states reporting fewer new infections now compared to a week ago. You look at this. Here, three states setting single day records in their case count yesterday, North Dakota, New Mexico and Ohio. This is new cases versus last week. Three states setting new recods. Again, the president says the virus is on its heels. It is not. And sadly, the death trend. When you have a high case count, wait a couple weeks and this map changes, too. We have 23 states right now. You see 10 reporting 50 percent or more deaths this week compared to last week. That's the deep red. Orange means going up at a slower pace but still going up. 23 states in all reporting more coronavirus deaths now compared to one week ago. That is not going in the right direction. And you can just follow the red line here. You don't need to study deep into the data. Just follow the trends. Beginning of the summer surge, up we went, down we started to come, now we're heading back up again. And here's what all the public health experts worry about. If when we started at 18,000, 20,000 we got up above 60,000. What happens if we start at 40,000 and start heading back up? How high do you go? That's the question facing the country right now. Just shy of 60,000 new coronavirus infections reported yesterday. Watch that red trend line. It is pointing up. The reason it's going up is because of positivity rates. More people testing and coming back positive. 40 percent in Wyoming positivity rate, 32 percent in South Dakota, 22 percent in Idaho, 22 percent Wisconsin, 20 percent Iowa. Double digits, Kansas, Nebraska, Utah, Nevada. Double digits or higher, more cases today, more spread, more cases tomorrow. It plays out pretty simple. And then the hospitalizations. You get more cases. You're also seeing peak of the summer surge came down with hospitalizations now starting to trend back up this way. So, we are months away from a vaccine. Many people say so-called herd immunity. Just let this keep happening, eventually people will get enough exposed to it. Things will get better. Dr. Fauci says the let it rip strategy is reckless.</s>FAUCI: There's about 30 percent of the population has underlying conditions that make them more susceptible to getting the adverse events and outcomes of serious disease with COVID-19. If you just let things rip and let the infection go, no masks, crowd, it doesn't make any difference, that quite frankly, George, is ridiculous, because what that will do is that there will be so many people in the community that you can't shelter, that you can't protect who are going to get sick and get serious consequences.</s>KING: Joining me now, Josh Dawsey, White House reporter for "The Washington Post." Josh, great to see you on this day. You hear Dr. Fauci, you look at the numbers you don't have to be a medical expert to understand the case count is climbing and that a pretty steady pace right now. And yet, I was making the point if you look across Europe, the case count is climbing as well. Macron has spoken to the French people. Boris Johnson has spoken to the people of the United Kingdom. I believe we lost Josh Dawsey there. We'll see if we'll get him back. Angela Merkel has also spoken to the German people, but President Trump is doing rallies across the country right now. We'll come back to Josh Dawsey in that conversation a few moments ago. Let's shift until we get him back to some other news. The vice presidential nominee Senator Kamala Harris off the campaign trail temporarily. This after a key member of her staff tested positive for COVID-19, the coronavirus. CNN political correspondent MJ Lee joins us with that. So, MJ, the Democrats are saying this is a precaution. Is there any worry Senator Harris might have been exposed?</s>MJ LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, this is big news coming out of the Biden campaign, two people who recently travelled with Senator Harris tested positive for COVID-19 late last night. The two people first of all was her communications director, the second person being a non-staff member, a member of the flight crew. So, let me just walk everyone through what we know so far based on what the campaign has told us. We know that these two people were on a flight with Senator Harris on October 8th. And the campaign says that on this flight Senator Harris and both of those people were wearing N95 masks and the campaign also says that Harris did not have close contact with either of those two people, this is according to the CDC's definition of exposure -- potential exposure to COVID-19 and both of these people tested negative before and after the flight. What we're also told is that both of these people attended personal events some days after being on that flight with Senator Harris and then they returned and tested positive. Now, the campaign is also emphasizing that neither of those people had close contact with either Vice President Biden or Senator Harris 48 hours prior to testing positive. And it's important to note, too, that Senator Harris, according to the campaign last tested negative for COVID-19, this was a PCR test yesterday, and she's also going to get tested again today. Now, what does all of this mean in terms of Senator Harris and her campaign events? Well, out of an abundance of caution the campaign says she's going to be suspending all in-person travel through this Sunday. She's going to be participating just through virtual events and she's going to be heading back on the campaign trail next Monday. Remember, she was supposed to be in North Carolina today and those in- person events have been cancelled. And In terms of Vice President Biden and his schedule, you know one of the things that we asked the campaign on a press conference call this morning was whether there are now growing concerns, are there going to be changes that we see that the campaign make more broadly? And they essentially said, no, that they feel confident about the protocols and the precautions that the campaign has put in place and that they do feel like they can continue in-person campaigning through November 3rd. And that, of course, includes Vice President Biden participating in that ABC News town hall tonight in Philadelphia. John?</s>KING: MJ Lee, appreciate the hustle on the live report there. Just more coronavirus disruption impacting the campaign. We'll keep an eye on that and see if Senator Harris does get back on the trail, soon. MJ, thanks so much. Let's bring back Josh Dawsey, White House reporter for "The Washington Post." Part of the coronavirus disruption is technology sometimes goes down. And Josh, the point I was trying to make is Prime Minister Johnson of the UK, President Macron of France, Chancellor Merkel in Germany, all of them talked to their people in recent days about the spiking cases across Europe. Some of them imposed restrictions, all of them have verged people to have personal responsibility. We do not get that. This president has not delivered and addressed the American people or walked into the Rose Garden to talk about the alarming rise in new infections instead he does his campaign rallies, packing people and he did a few moments ago, call into Fox Business to say this about coronavirus. Listen.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens if you get a big spike in cases in the United States and cases are rising. What are you doing?</s>TRUMP (via telephone): We're not doing any more lockdowns. And we're doing fine. We're not doing any shutdowns. We learned about the disease. Young people, 99.9 percent, right, are in great shape, strong immune systems, the younger the better, it's hard to believe. We're not doing any shutdowns. We learned about the disease, young people, 99.9 percent, right, are in great shape. Strong immune systems. The younger the better, it's hard to believe.</s>KING: Josh, I get the president's position, you can say we're not going to do a lockdown, we're not going to a shutdown, but there are other things you can do. You can talk to people more carefully about please wear a mask, you can talk to businesses about please make sure your work sites are safe. The president says we're doing fine. We're not doing fine.</s>JOHN DAWSEY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Sorry we got disconnected, John. But the president's hospitalization and hospitalization of so many of his advisers have actually taught him to be more defiant now that he has survived this virus and he is back at work. He's having these large mega rallies. A number of his surrogates and family members all over the country indoors and mask less events. The campaign and the White House has not really changed any of their rules or policies or tactics. What they're doing is you know continuing to say masks are encouraged at the White House but not everyone wears them. And they're campaigning totally differently. As you said earlier, you know Kamala Harris is down off the trail because one of her staffers had it. You're seeing spikes in cases across the country. The president though is not taking a more empathetic tone. You know I talked to a lot of folks in the White House and the campaign for the story we did today. Where they essentially said, we want the president to take a more empathetic tone. We want him to say we know senior citizens have suffered this. We know so many different people have suffered this. We're with you. We are trying to help you. Not this kind of more callus in the words of his critics' tone that he's showing right now.</s>KING: Right. And I wish we hadn't had the technical disruption because I talked more about that piece. I encourage people to go online and read essentially making the point in these final days of the campaign. In some ways the president is doing exactly the opposite of what his campaign advisers think he should be doing on a number of fronts. Josh Dawsey appreciate the reporting and insights. Up next for us, Dr. Anthony Fauci gives a very important update on the timeline for a coronavirus vaccine.

Fauci: Vaccine may be Widely Available by April.

KING: An important reminder just this morning about the vaccine timeline and that what the president says every day is misleading at best. The president promises vaccines are on the way. Possibly he still dangles from time to time before the election. Dr. Anthony Fauci says on the way, means April.</s>FAUCI: That will likely be within the first quarter of 2021, by let's say April of 2021. But that would be predicated on the fact that all of the vaccines that are in clinical trials have proven to be safe and effective.</s>KING: Joining our conversation is Dr. Paul Offit. He's director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. Dr. Offit, grateful for your time especially on this important day. You hear Dr. Fauci talk about April. We have also seen in recent days a couple of the big studies put on pause. Johnson & Johnson put on pause because of an illness, AstraZeneca put on pause before that because of an illness. That in of itself not unusual. Dr. Fauci says that happens. You put them on pause because you're being careful. I want to ask you about this part of the AstraZeneca. This is from CNN reporting. "AstraZeneca whose phase three coronavirus vaccine clinical trial has been on hold for more than a month, did not get critical safety data to the US Food and Drug Administration until last week, according to a source familiar with the trial." Is that delay normal? I know that illnesses do pop up and you're being safe when you say let's study this, but what about the delay sharing the information with the government?</s>DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER AT CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: You know I haven't heard of that before. I mean certainly they're off clinical pause in Europe. They've met the European regulator standards for what it took them to get off clinical pause. Obviously, those standards are different here in the FDA. But it sounds like this is more technical than it is having to do really what those cases itself. Actually, AstraZeneca was on two clinical pauses. One in July, one in September in Europe. And then now it's on clinical pause. It's sounds like a technical issue but not anything having to do directly with those cases.</s>KING: You have been a voice of caution for months saying that when you hear the president say we'll have a vaccine yesterday or by Election Day, everybody should just take that with a grain of salt. Based on developments in these recent weeks and you just heard Dr. Fauci say maybe by April. Does that sound reasonable to you based on everything you know, April?</s>OFFIT: Yes. Assuming we can get back on track with these vaccine programs which I think is highly likely, I think April is a perfectly reasonable time. We have five vaccines in Operation Warp Speed, we have one vaccine, Pfizer, which I think the U.S. is interested in. It is outside of Operation Warp Speed. I think April is a perfectly reasonable time. I think that what Dr. Fauci said is exactly right.</s>KING: You mentioned the Pfizer study that's underway. This is some more new reporting. "Drugmaker Pfizer has plans to start testing its experimental coronavirus vaccine in children as young as 12, and parents have already expressed interest in enrolling their kids, the researcher leading the trial told CNN." How important is that to diversify essentially the pool of people being tested so you have better data on the efficacy.</s>OFFIT: It's very important. We're not going to be able to immunize children, unless we have data in children. Unless we have studies in children. And right now, all the trials were being done up until this most recent Pfizer have been in those over 18 years of age. I think it will make it easier for children to go back to school, to vaccinate them, so we're going to have to generate those. And I think we will over time.</s>KING: You heard Dr. Fauci earlier in the program talk about this concept of herd immunity, which many of the people in the White House now start to talk about, which is well, it's going to be several months for a vaccine, we don't want to shut down the economy again, so let it rip, right? The vaccine - you now we're up to around 50,000 plus new infections a day, just let that playout. Some people will get infected, community immunity will then rise. Dr. Fauci says that's not to listen here, to the World Health Organization experts saying, no, dangerous.</s>MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION HEALTH EMERGENCIES PROGRAMME: With this idea of herd immunity, this is a phrase that's used when you use vaccination, when you vaccinate a certain amount of the population to be able to protect the rest of the population that isn't able to get that vaccine. Herd immunity as an approach by letting the virus circulate is dangerous, it leads to unnecessary cases and at least to unnecessary deaths.</s>KING: That's a polite way of saying it. Isn't it? By unnecessary cases, unnecessary deaths, we're talking about thousands, tens of thousands potentially deaths if you just let it rip, right?</s>OFFIT: Here's a trick question, name the virus that eliminated itself by community immunity, it's never happened. Never, historically. Also, if you look for example, every year there's four human coronaviruses that circulate in the population, unmitigated by vaccines or therapies. Every year, 15 to 20 percent of the respiratory infections have come to our hospital are caused by one of those or all those four viruses and they've been unabated. If you had to pick the perfect virus to induce community immunity by infection, it would be measles. Measles is 10 times more infectious than COVID virus. And it induces so called sterilizing immunity. Meaning you are protected for the rest of your life against all manner of disease including asymptomatic infection. Yet despite that, every year in this country, there would be one to two million case of measles. There will be 50,000 hospitalizations and 500 deaths. And that virus would be much more likely to do community - to cause community immunity than this one because this virus even after natural infection you can still be re-infected and asymptomatic re-infected. We eliminated measles in this country by vaccination by the year 2000. It's come back to some extent because some parents have chosen not to vaccinate their children. Smallpox was only eliminated by vaccination even though that too is a much more highly contagious disease and that too induces lifelong immunity. So, the notion of community immunity by natural infection is made up, it's never happened.</s>KING: Made up, it's never happened. And that's not a plan, it's a crime. Those are my words not your words. Dr. Offit, grateful for your insights. Thank you very much. When we come back, a look to the 2020 campaign trail. We are 19 days out. More new polling shows a very big Joe Biden national lead. If you look deep into the weeds of the polls is there any evidence of a Trump comeback?

Trump, Biden to Participate in Competing Town Halls Tonight

KING: 19 days left, so obviously the battleground states in play as we get closer to Election Day. Joe Biden today, remember it was supposed to be a debate night instead he'll do a town hall in Pennsylvania. President Trump about to hit the road first a rally in North Carolina, then he moves down to Florida for his town hall tonight in prime time. Those three states. Let's go back to 2016, remind ourselves why these three states are so important. On the 2016 map, Trump, Trump, and Trump, they were part of Trump's electoral college victory. They're part this year of Joe Biden's strategy. New national poll today, NBC/Wall Street Journal shows another double-digit Biden national lead. Then a lot of those lately. So, you look at the battleground states, and you say wait a minute, President Trump came back in 2016, right, he was losing at this point and he came back. Are there - is there any evidence? Are there any seeds of a Trump comeback out there? Look at these 10 battleground state polls. What's missing? Nowhere is President Trump leading, a tie in Iowa, Joe Biden leads North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Nevada, Ohio. Some of them were close, many of them are close. Ohio is very close, North Carolina is very close, Iowa is a tie. More than plausible President Trump could win those states, right? They have Republican DNA. They're very close now, time for a comeback but look at Wisconsin. Look at Michigan. Look at Pennsylvania. Even Florida. If you discount that lead, no way it's 11, still it's a Biden lead even if you cut it in half. Arizona another state changing. So, right now, the battleground states look good for Biden. The national numbers look good for Biden. On the campaign trail this week, one big debating point the economy.</s>TRUMP: They betrayed American workers, disparaged American values and crushed our middle class. For decades Biden and his cronies laughed while they shipped millions of your jobs to their friends in foreign countries.</s>JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: In our house growing up, every penny my dad made went to paying the bills. I see hardworking women and men are just trying to earn an honest living and take care of their families just want an even shot.</s>KING: Joining us now for their analysis, Margie Omero, she's a Democratic pollster for GBAO and Neil Newhouse, Republican pollster, co-founder of Public Opinion Strategies. Neil I'm going to start with you again because you're the Republican in the conversation and your candidate is in a deep ditch right now if you're a Republican. I know he's not your candidate meaning you don't work for the campaign. But look at the new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, the Republican who does that poll is your partner and good friend

Sen. Kamala Harris 9D-CA) Was Interviewed About Joe Biden, the Court Packing and the Issue on Coronavirus; Kamala Harris Suspend in- Person Campaign; President Trump's Memory Not Good on Dates; Joe Biden Presented a Clear and Succinct Answers to Voters; Trump Admitted He Owes $400 Million to a Foreign Bank

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: I didn't watch that one with myself so I'm relying on the team. I'll go through it further in further detail later. But Biden said that when the first round of enhanced unemployment finished Trump, he said he didn't do anything. Actually, Trump did do something. He signed an executive measure to take billions in federal disaster aid to give $300 a week to the jobless. So that's certainly something. He said that Trump said that people should inject bleach in your arm and that's going to work. But Trump did of course make weird comments in which he mused about scientists studying the injection of bleach for the virus. That's crazy, but he didn't actually advice people to go do it themselves in that moment. And Biden suggested that his web site did not say that the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for environmental acts of action.</s>CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: He does.</s>DALE: He didn't explicitly say, but his web site does say it's a crucial framework, so it's misleading.</s>CUOMO: All right. Daniel dale, thank you very much. I look forward to even more. But thank you for keeping on the straight and narrow.</s>DALE: Thanks, Chris.</s>CUOMO: All right. We'll be back at midnight. Right now, it's CNN Tonight with D. Lemon.</s>DON LEMON, CNN HOST: So, let me ask you something. And you can ask me the same question. When was the last time you had a COVID test?</s>CUOMO: Me? Ten days.</s>LEMON: Yes. So, me, last Tuesday. So, why can't the president remember that if he had a COVID test?</s>CUOMO: Because he's lying.</s>LEMON: Before the debate.</s>CUOMO: Because he's lying.</s>LEMON: How can he not remember someone either drawing blood for, you know, if he had antibodies or sticking that thing up your nose going to your brain?</s>CUOMO: I'm with you. I'm with you.</s>LEMON: Going in your brain.</s>CUOMO: He absolutely should remember, especially if he wants to say that his opponent is demented and that he's got memory problems and he can't remember what happened last week. But even better, Don, and more material is, he said, you have to ask the doctor, they can give you a perfect answer. We have. They say your privacy rights won't allow them to answer.</s>LEMON: What is happening is that I believe that someone knew. Right? Obviously, they knew about Hope Hicks since she was experiencing symptoms. And he did not take the test. Somehow, he got around the test for whatever reason and potentially exposed the former vice president, the moderator and the folks who were there in the hall. The President of the United States. Anyone out there who has had a COVID test in the last any time since this pandemic, you remember the last time you had a COVID test. This is not simply pulling the wool over the American people's eyes.</s>CUOMO: Right.</s>LEMON: This is a wink in an eye. It's either he's lying or he has bad memory -- or his -- I don't know. I guess the first one is right. He's got to be lying. He has to know the last time he had a COVID test and the result.</s>CUOMO: What do you think the big -- the biggest moment of the night is that you hear on both sides?</s>LEMON: Well, to be honest with you I watched the Biden debate because -- or the Biden town hall because it was very substantive. I have to tell you, I just -- you know, I've heard just about everything that Donald Trump has had to say about everything. I'm sorry. And for me, listen, I think the American people can watch who they want. But as someone who covers this every single night of their life, I know what he's going to say. I know what he's going to obfuscate. I know when he's going to point to a shiny object. I know what he's going to lie about it. I know what he's going to say about systemic racism. I know he's going to pretend and lie that he did a good job when it comes to the pandemic in this country. I know he's going to give a wink and a nod to racists and bigots and conspiracy theorists like QAnon. No one should be surprised by that. What I wanted to hear is the alternative, the other person who's been running because I've been hearing from him so long.</s>CUOMO: Right.</s>LEMON: That debate was substantive. I got a great answer on the 1990 crime bill that I had never heard before. He actually said it was a mistake. I got great information on COVID. I got great information on what he would do to try to fix systemic racism in this country and what he would do to try to bring communities of color and police departments together and our elected officials. I'm not sure we heard that. I'm pretty sure we did not hear that from the current president.</s>CUOMO: No. Look, I thought Biden made some good points. I thought he brought up some good components of what you need to have a better plan on COVID. But it didn't sound like he had a plan that would use those components. I'm very sensitive to that. I think the court packing thing makes him seem way too Trumpery in terms of how he's answering the question. With Trump, without question --</s>LEMON: You know how I feel about that court packing thing.</s>CUOMO: I know.</s>LEMON: And I'm going to tell this --</s>CUOMO: But we disagree, so we'll leave it alone.</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>CUOMO: But the -- without question the President of the United States calling into question the bravery of our SEAL team guys --</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>CUOMO: -- and all the men and women who spilled blood to find Usama bin Laden --</s>LEMON: It's outrageous.</s>CUOMO: -- and put them in the ground or in the water.</s>LEMON: I got to go though.</s>CUOMO: It's too far. Go ahead. Do your thing.</s>LEMON: I hate to cut you off. Let me tell you, because I have Senator Kamala Harris.</s>CUOMO: Go ahead. I'll be back at midnight anyway.</s>LEMON: Vice presidential candidate right now.</s>CUOMO: I love you.</s>LEMON: Thank you, sir. I'll see you soon. This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. Here's our breaking news. It's a big night. Big night of dueling town halls on competing networks. The president and Joe Biden each facing questions from voters but not facing each other. Americans forced to choose which one to watch in real time. And that's not the way it's supposed to be. This was supposed to be a debate. But the president pulled the plug on that when he refused to do it virtually after catching the coronavirus. Joe Biden's running mate, Senator Kamala Harris, as I said just a moment ago, she is here. She's going to weigh on tonight's big moments and her decision to pause in-person campaigning through this weekend after a flight crew member and her communications director tested positive for the virus. But first, I want you to get -- I want you to get -- I want you to hear from both candidates, OK, before we bring the senator on. The president in Miami, frankly, angry, yelling, giving wild answers and retweeting conspiracy theories and apparently totally unable to answer a simple question from Savanna Guthrie. When was your last negative test for the coronavirus?</s>SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC HOST: Let's talk about testing because --</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sure.</s>GUTHRIE: -- there's a little bit of, I guess, confusion about this and I think we can clear it up.</s>TRUMP: Yes, and there should be.</s>GUTHRIE: Your first positive test was Thursday, October 1st. OK? When was your last negative test? When did you last remember having a negative test?</s>TRUMP: Well, I test quite a bit, and I can tell you that before the debate, which I thought it was a very good debate and I felt fantastically. I was -- I had no problem before. It was afterwards --</s>GUTHRIE: Did you test the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: I don't know. I don't even remember. I test all the time. But I can tell you this, after the debate like, I guess, a day or so, I think it was Thursday evening, maybe even late Thursday evening, I tested positive. That's when I first found out about it.</s>GUTHRIE: Well back to the debate because the debate commission's rules -- and this is the honor system --</s>TRUMP: Yes.</s>GUTHRIE: -- would be that you would come with a negative test. You say you don't know if you got a test on the day of the debate.</s>TRUMP: I had no problem. Again, the doctors do it. I don't ask it. I test all the time.</s>GUTHRIE: Did you take a test, though, on the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: You know if you ask the doctor, they'll give you a perfect answer.</s>GUTHRIE: Yes.</s>TRUMP: But they take a test and I leave, and I go about my business.</s>GUTHRIE: So, did you take a test on the day of the debate, I guess is the bottom line?</s>TRUMP: I probably did and I take a test the day before and the day before and I was always in great shape and I was in great shape before the debate. And it was only after the debate like a period of time after the debate that I said that's interesting and they took a test and it tested positive.</s>GUTHRIE: So just to button it up, do you take a test every single day?</s>TRUMP: No, no, but I take a lot of tests.</s>GUTHRIE: OK. And you don't know if you took a test on the day of the debate.</s>TRUMP: Possibly I did. Possibly I didn't.</s>LEMON: Come on. This is preposterous. Either his mind is slipping, which he always is accusing his opponent of, or he wasn't tested and can't admit it because it's too reckless even for this shameless, reckless president. If he took a test that day and it was negative, he would tell us. The president lashing out when the questions turn to his slowness to denounce white supremacy.</s>TRUMP: You always do this.</s>GUTHRIE: My question to you is --</s>TRUMP: You've done this to me and everybody --</s>GUTHRIE: Why does it seem like --</s>TRUMP: I denounced white supremacy. OK?</s>GUTHRIE: You did two days later.</s>TRUMP: I denounced white supremacy for years. But you always do it. You always start off with a question. You didn't ask Joe Biden whether or not he denounces antifa. I watched him on the same basic show with Lester Holt and he was asking questions like Biden was a child.</s>GUTHRIE: Well, so, this is a little bit of a dodge.</s>TRUMP: So are you ready? Are you listening? I denounce white supremacy.</s>GUTHRIE: OK.</s>TRUMP: What's your next question?</s>GUTHRIE: Do you --</s>LEMON: Joe Biden is not retweeting conspiracy theorists and racists. And we'll also hear a little bit how he refused to denounce the insane QAnon conspiracy theories, speaking of that, even when it's clearly laid out for him. And then there's Joe Biden in Philadelphia making an impassioned plea, and impassioned plea for bipartisanship. And answer to a question from the son of a Reagan administration official.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My father, Drew Lewis, served as Secretary of Transportation under President Ronald Reagan in his first term.</s>JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, I'll be darned.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And some of his closest allies and friends were Democrats including House Speaker Tip O'Neill and Senator Ted Kennedy. Sadly today, we have highly partisan and dysfunctional governance, and I believe President Trump is primarily responsible for creating this toxic environment. As president, how will you avoid the temptation to exact revenge and instead take the high road an attempt to restore bipartisanship, civility and honor to our democracy?</s>BIDEN: As written by a fellow who won the Pulitzer Prize for a book he wrote about the presidency, he said, you know, I doubt whether Biden is really Irish. He doesn't hold a grudge. In politics, grudges don't work. They're not -- they make no sense. I really mean it. I have never -- and the second point I would make is everybody talks about, yes, Joe, when you were a senator and a chairman of foreign relations, chairman of judiciary, got a lot of things done, you're able to cross the aisle, but the days were changed. When you're vice president, you got a lot done, but it can't happen anymore. It can. We've got to change the nature of the way we deal with one another. And it starts off by the way your father was and Tip was and others. You don't question another man or woman's motive. You can question their judgment but not their motive.</s>LEMON: Joe Biden going on to call parts of the 1994 crime bill which has been a tough issue for him this campaign a mistake.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your view on the crime bill that you wrote in 1994 which showed prejudice against minorities? Where do you stand today on that?</s>BIDEN: First of all, things have changed drastically. That crime bill, I went and vote it, the black caucus voted for it, every black mayor supported it across the board.</s>GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, CHIEF ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: Was it a mistake to support it?</s>BIDEN: Yes, it was. But here's where the mistake came. The mistake came in terms of what the states did locally. What we did federally we said -- and you remember, George, was all about the same time for the same crime.</s>LEMON: We've got a lot to talk about tonight. And joining me now, vice-presidential nominee Senator Kamala Harris. Senator, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. It's good to see you.</s>SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's good to see you, Don, thank you.</s>LEMON: So, let's get right into it. So, this is a perfect metaphor for this race tonight. Two candidates on two different channels at the same exact time, completely separate worlds here in a country where two sides are living in different realities. How can you break through that if you become the vice president?</s>HARRIS: Well, you know, I think that Joe, first of all, I thought he did an incredible job. And he was just -- he's who he is and America got to see it. He answered every question. He wanted to talk more. I don't know if your viewers had a chance to see it. Even after the debate was technically over, he stayed on the stage --</s>LEMON: Right.</s>HARRIS: -- to answer questions and to have follow up conversations. That's who Joe is. but one of the things that he talked about -- and you played that clip -- is about his true and natural and deep desire to unify the country knowing that the vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us. I think that that is part of who Joe is and what's going to make him an incredible president especially at this time, which is that he is not trying to divide the people. He is not trying to sow hate and division the way Donald Trump is. In fact, he's quite the opposite. He wants to bring people together around both what are collective dreams and hopes and aspirations for our children and our future but also around the struggles that everyone is facing now and has been, including the crisis that is about the public health crisis with the coronavirus, the economic crisis that has been the effect of it, the reconciliation in terms of racial justice in America, and also dealing with the climate crisis. And Joes sees, if you will, Don, the -- he sees the Venn diagram of it all. He sees that there are those circles and maybe people seem that they're a little different, they live in different parts of the country, they may be different age, different race. But that area in the middle, that overlap is so big and Joe just wants to grow that around bringing people together around their collective desires.</s>LEMON: I want to -- so let's talk about how you do that then because that's going to take voting to get you to an office if you want to do that.</s>HARRIS: Yes.</s>LEMON: As we saw in both of these town halls, Senator, there are still some undecided voters out there. As you said, that may be part of the middle there. What's your message to Americans who are thinking maybe they don't vote because even though they don't love Trump they're not sold on Biden either?</s>HARRIS: Part of it is, Don, look, to your first question, there are two clear choices here. On the one hand, you have Joe Biden, who worked together with President Obama and built the Affordable Care Act, which brought healthcare to over 20 million people who did not have it, who for the first time created protections for people with pre-existing conditions like diabetes, like high blood pressure. And Joe wants to build on the success that he and President Obama created and build on it by expanding coverage, bringing down the cost of premiums, lowering Medicare age to 60. That's what Joe does. On the other hand, you have Donald Trump, who won't, he's literally in court right now trying to sue to get rid of the Affordable Care Act because he's got this weird obsession with trying to undo whatever Barack Obama and Joe Biden created. So, there are so many clear differences between the two of them. On the one hand, you have Joe Biden who says we need to invest in the American worker and American infrastructure. Joe is supported by labor. And why? Because he will grow good paying union jobs and he honors the importance of collective bargaining and also what we need to build back up roads and our bridges and invest in renewable energy. He talked about that tonight.</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>HARRIS: Donald Trump he talked about an infrastructure plan that never took place. He has passed a tax bill benefitting the top 1 percent in the biggest corporations in America. Meanwhile, over 30 million people in our country signed up for unemployment in just the last several months.</s>LEMON: Well let's talk about why that is.</s>HARRIS: I want to be respectful of your time because we don't have as long as I want.</s>HARRIS: Yes.</s>LEMON: I'd like to go all two hours that I have on the air tonight to go with you. I want to talk about this because this is very important. This is close to you. Two people in your campaign's orbit tested positive, including your communications director.</s>HARRIS: Yes.</s>LEMON: The president brought it up tonight when he was asked where he might have gotten COVID. Listen to this.</s>TRUMP: Well, I don't know where it came from.</s>GUTHRIE: OK.</s>TRUMP: You don't know where it came from and the doctors don't know where it came from. But as the president I have to be out there. I also know --</s>GUTHRIE: Well there's no one that says you can't be out there but it's just about wearing masks and having, for example, your rallies.</s>TRUMP: Well, I know this. As an example --</s>GUTHRIE: Your rallies don't require masks.</s>TRUMP: No. I mean, let's see Kamala. She's got people now that people have it. And I'm not blaming her. I'm not saying she did a terrible thing. As president, I have to be out there. I can't be in a basement.</s>LEMON: So, he is using your circumstance to make the point that this could happen to anyone, that despite taking precautions, your campaign was hit as well. What is your response to him?</s>HARRIS: My response is with due respect and being polite that he's just incorrect. And the reality of it is that first of all, his approach to this issue is something the American public are suffering from. For example, what we did is we have been -- we have had -- and he mocked Joe Biden in their debate about wearing masks and protocols that say we understand, love thy neighbor, wear your masks. We have had protocols that have been about saying that we need to have social distancing. We're not going to bring large crowds together because we don't want people to get sick as they exercise their rights in our democracy. On the other hand, you have a Donald Trump who has overlooked all of that when he information since January about how serious this was and he did not tell the American people. So, again, you have clear contrast. You want to talk about the difference between the two choices people have in just 19 days. But people are voting right now by the way.</s>LEMON: Well --</s>HARRIS: The choice is Joe Biden, who has been saying since March we need to have a national plan for testing, for treatment, for contact tracing. And when God willing, we get that vaccine as soon as possible for distribution of the vaccine, taking into account --</s>LEMON: I'm glad you mentioned that.</s>HARRIS: -- (Inaudible) racial disparities and making sure it's free.</s>LEMON: I'm glad you mentioned the vaccines.</s>HARRIS: Yes.</s>LEMON: And before I get to this my next question. But you have tested negative, right? And you have been tested --</s>HARRIS: Yes, many times.</s>LEMON: Many times. OK.</s>HARRIS: I was last exposed to the folks you mentioned seven days ago. I've had multiple tests since.</s>LEMON: OK.</s>HARRIS: I've come up negative. They are all doing well. I'm happy to say.</s>LEMON: OK.</s>HARRIS: And, yes, this is where we are.</s>LEMON: Great. So, listen, I want to -- you mentioned vaccines. At the Biden town hall, he was asked about vaccines, and the voter brought you up. Here it is.</s>BIDEN: Hi, Kelly, how are you?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Mr. Biden. My question is about the coronavirus vaccine.</s>BIDEN: Yes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or potential. Senator Harris stated she absolutely would not take a vaccine from President Trump. And of course, we all know it's not President Trump that would create this vaccine. It would be doctors and scientists that presumably we all trust. So, my question for you is, if a vaccine was approved between now and the end of the year, would you take it? And if you were to become president, would you mandate that everyone has to take it?</s>BIDEN: Two things. Number one. President Trump talks about things that just aren't accurate about everything from vaccines, we're going to have one right away. It's going to happen and so on. The point is that if the scientists -- if the body of scientists say that this is what is ready to be done and it's been tested, have gone through the three phases, yes, I would take it. I would encourage people to take it.</s>LEMON: So, Vice President Biden went on to say that he would consider mandating a vaccine. But do you -- do you have any regret about initially saying that you wouldn't trust President Trump alone in a vaccine or do you think you got -- it got misconstrued?</s>HARRIS: Let me be very clear. I think I have been, but I'll say it again. I do not trust Donald Trump on the issue of a vaccine. If the public health professionals tell us it's safe, I will take the vaccine. I will be the first in line. If Dr. Fauci says it is safe, I'll be the first line. I will not take Donald Trump's word on this. He has over and over and over again lied to the American people while he has been equipped with information that if he had shared it could have saved lives. He's been playing politics with people's lives and we're now looking at one of the greatest mass casualty events in the history of our country. No, I will not take Donald Trump's word for it.</s>LEMON: Your running mate Joe Biden said tonight that he is not a fan of so-called court packing, that has become such a big issue recently. But that ultimately, as he said, it's going to depend on how this is handled, meaning the nomination of Judge Amy Coney Barrett. But we know how this is being handled. Republicans are going to vote on it. She's going to have the votes. Tonight, the vice president promised a clear position before election day. What is your position now that you have heard from the judge in the course of this hearing and that you have heard from Joe Biden tonight about court packing?</s>HARRIS: Well, as you know, Don, I sit on the Senate judiciary committee, and I was present for the hearings. I will tell you it's probably no surprise to you I plan on voting against her confirmation to the court for a number of reasons. But the biggest reason includes what I've said since the beginning which is, I do believe this to have been an illegitimate process. The American people are voting. We are not talking about the appoint -- the lifetime appointment to the highest court in our land during an election year or election season. We're literally in the middle of an election. I think as of today 18 million people have already voted. We are 19 days away from the end of the election. And it is only right and fair that the American people get to decide who will be their president. And then that person should be the one to fill this lifetime appointment to the United States Supreme Court. And I remain very committed to that principle, which is about fairness, about the integrity of this process. They've been jamming through this nominee. Meanwhile, Don, over 150 days been sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk a proposal to bring relief to the American people around economic relief, around things like what we need to do around moratoriums for people who are about to be evicted. Almost half American renters are worried about not being able to pay their rent by the end of the month. This is serious business.</s>LEMON: And it is --</s>HARRIS: People are standing in food lines. And this is what we're doing, jamming a nomination through for political purposes when there's literally a bill that we should be debating about giving relief to the American people.</s>LEMON: I understand what you mean about -- what you're saying about jamming someone through, and I think the polls show the American people are on your side. But this whole idea, were you surprised to hear the former vice president say that he's going to have -- take a stance or give his position on this court packing before the people vote?</s>HARRIS: I think that Joe Biden has been consistent about saying that this is not the time right now to have this discussion. And frankly, to be honest with you, Don, and just to be very straightforward if we're going to talk about court packing, which is something that all of a sudden has become a big point of discussion.</s>LEMON: Right.</s>HARRIS: I think because our appointee is trying to --</s>LEMON: The only reason I bring it up because I want to --</s>HARRIS: -- paint a distraction.</s>LEMON: I actually think it is a distraction. And I just wanted to get you on the record.</s>HARRIS: Yes.</s>LEMON: So, because maybe if you guys answer it, you'll get it behind you and it doesn't become her e-mails. And that's up to the media too to not make it her e-mails.</s>HARRIS: But I'm not -- and not fall into the trap. Because look, if we want to -- seriously, if we want to talk about court packing, can we please talk about -- and I've witnessed this first hand on the Senate judiciary committee. They've been one after another nominating people who are unqualified, people who refuse to say that Brown versus board of education is precedent. Do you know that they put 50 people on the lifetime sort of -- federal court of appeals and not one is black? I mean, I just -- I'm sorry but I can't have a conversation about court packing around something that has not even happened yet, which is who is going to be the next president, without dealing with what they've been doing for the last few years.</s>LEMON: So, Senator, let me ask you tonight about white supremacy, because the president was asked about that and he brushed it off.</s>HARRIS: Yes.</s>LEMON: He says that he denounced it and then pivoted to why Joe Biden doesn't denounce antifa. The president's racism is ugly, but it has been effective with a lot of voters, Senator. How much of the president's support do you believe is based on his messages of race, and will they work again this time?</s>HARRIS: I believe that the American people want in their president somebody who speaks to the goals, the ideals and the spirit of who we are. You know, Joe talks about we are supposed to be the United States of America. And you are right, and I agree with you. Donald Trump has spent fool time spewing hate and division. He has a pattern of racist talk from Charlottesville through talking as he did on that debate stage to what I heard tonight about what he said or refused to condemn QAnon. So, look, this is a pattern of his and there's no denying that. But I do believe in the American people. And I believe the vast, vast majority of the American people want in their president somebody who sees a unified country, who tries to unify our country and brings us together around our common goals and dreams. And also, who speaks truth about the history of racism and has the courage to say black lives matter, which Joe Biden does and Donald Trump does not. But we need a president to help us heal. Our country is in pain in so many ways. And I, from the bottom of my heart, believe that it is time to end the pain and to elect Joe Biden.</s>LEMON: Senator Kamala Harris, thank you. You be safe. I really appreciate you joining us tonight. You're welcome back any time. Please come back as often as you want.</s>HARRIS: Thank you, Don.</s>LEMON: Thank you so much.</s>HARRIS: Thank you. I will.</s>LEMON: Be well.</s>HARRIS: I will.</s>LEMON: The president faced questions tonight about that New York Times report that he has about $421 million in debt, right? And he didn't deny it. Much, much more on that. Tonight's breaking news. Head to head town halls instead of a face to face debate. We'll talk about that next.

Former GOP Governor Funding Voting Places.

LEMON: So, here's the breaking news. The president and the former vice president Joe Biden facing off in dueling town halls. That, as 17 million Americans have cast their ballots in the election. President Trump continuing to undermine the election process and make false claims about voter fraud.</s>GUTHRIE: You have said repeatedly the only way we lose this election is if it is rigged. Now that is simply not true. The fact is either candidate can lose fair and square without ballot fraud.</s>TRUMP: Sure, we can. And you know what?</s>GUTHRIE: So, will you accept the results of the election?</s>TRUMP: Win or lose, that's the way I wanted to be. But when I see thousands of ballots, right, unsolicited ballots being given out by the millions and thousands of them are dumped in dumpsters and when you see ballots with the name Trump, military ballots from our great military and they're dumped in garbage cans --</s>GUTHRIE: That is a handful -- we could go all night which we won't.</s>TRUMP: No, it's happening every day.</s>GUTHRIE: We can go all night.</s>LEMON: Let's discuss now with the former Republican Governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger. He is fighting for your right to vote, as well as hosting an online summit, "Unfinished Business, Race and Equity in America on Twitch," OK. So that's starting tomorrow. So, make sure you tune in to that. Governor, I appreciate you joining me. Thank you so much.</s>FMR. GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R-CA): My pleasure.</s>LEMON: So, the president is continuing to hedge on election results, continuing to lie about voter fraud. He likes to projects strength. What is strong about undermining the election 19 days out?</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: I think the most important thing is for me that everyone gets a chance to vote. And as you know, that there have been for months now people running around and saying, let's organize so people go out to vote and let's get the message out, you know, and they have stickers and they have hats and they have this and that, t- shirts to go out and vote. But what if you don't have a chance to go and vote? So that's where I come in. Because I say to myself, there is too much dialogue about other stuff go out and vote but there is not enough action. And the action is that you have to provide the opportunity because we know there's voter suppression and there were thousands of polling bases that were closed since 2013, since the Supreme Court case. And so, there's no real, you know, chance for some people to vote. So, I said, well, instead of just going out to vote and encouraging people to go out and vote, I said I'm going to offer millions of dollars to open up those polling places that have been closed under the auspices of budgetary reasons.</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: So, let's assume for a second it was a budgetary reason. I'm offering now the money for each polling place that was closed to reopen.</s>LEMON: OK.</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: And sure enough, there were a lot of people that have taken up the offer.</s>LEMON: I want to ask --</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: For instance, in Muscogee County, and Georgia, and Cameron County in Texas --</s>LEMON: That was the answer to my --</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: -- the list goes on and on.</s>LEMON: That was the answer to my question where is that happening. But I just put -- I want to put out these lines of people voting around the country. Seventeen million ballots already, Governor. We are seeing a massive turnout here. Listen, your institute at USC as you talked about offering grants to keep polling places up and running. You say that you're willing to spend millions of dollars. So, explain to us, how does that work? Where is that money going?</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: Well, what we did was we basically put out a tweet, we just let people know that we are going to do that. And then we go and send out letters to the various different polling places to almost a thousand to be accurate. It's 989 counties have gotten letters. And then we have done follow-up phone calls to make sure that they have received the letters so there's no one saying, well, we never received the letter. And then certain places started responding to it and like I said, Muscogee County in Georgia, was one of those places that opened up a supercenter. They think there will be 70 to 80 percent turnout. I mean, it's huge. And then in Cameron County in Texas, the two super centers that opened up the first day on Monday. They had 10,000 people turn out to vote.</s>LEMON: Wow.</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: I mean, it's really extraordinary stuff. But on the other hand, we have a state like Louisiana that had zero applications -- I mean, they send applications, they have not responded or they've actually been recalled, shut us down and just said, we are not interested in opening up any polling places. We are not interested in your money or something like that. So, you have both. So, there's clearly I think voter suppression. And what we want to do is offer everyone a chance to vote. It doesn't matter if you vote Republican or Democrat. It has nothing to do with parties. It has to do with the basic fundamental right to vote. And then also to let the people know you have an obligation to vote and to participate since democracy is not expected, as we always say, it is something that you have to participate.</s>LEMON: I love your passion because I'm trying to get a worded edgewise. But I love your passion, I love what you're saying. Listen, and my home state is Louisiana and trust me I know what happens down there. So, I have to ask you this since you're talking about voter suppression, right, and ways that people try to keep you from voting and really take your vote sometimes or hide your vote. You're a former Republican governor of California. I've got to ask you, the California Republican Party says it will not comply with the state's cease and desist order over unofficial ballot drop boxes placed in several counties. This is -- you were governor of the state once. What is your message to them?</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: Well, we have always (Inaudible) and I even said that in 2007 to the Republican Party at the convention in California that you're dying at the box office. And so, they are off the rail -- first, what they are offering to the people in California, I mean, you cannot see them anywhere when it comes to healthcare. They have no interest in education. They have no interest in any of those kinds of issues. For instance, women are interested, that's why they lost millions of women in the Republican Party. It's a sinking ship and this is what I said. It's a stupid thing they're doing right now with those ballot boxes and they're creating -- so I think it's just, it's just Mickey Mouse stuff that, you know, has serious kind of like effect. I think what they should do is really offer people hope and then be out there and really make everyone participate and make everyone go and be able to vote and those kinds of things rather than make those fake ballot boxes and stuff like that.</s>LEMON: OK. So, Governor, I have a lot to talk to you about. I want to talk to you more about getting people out to vote and I also want to get your reaction to the dueling town halls tonight. We'll talk right after this break. Stay with us.

Arnold Schwarzenegger on the State of the 2020 Race; Trump, Biden Take Questions in Dueling Town Halls; Trump Again Refuses to Denounce QAnon; Fact-Checking Trump and Biden Town Hall Events; CNN's Silence is Not an Option; Stark Contrast Between President Trump and Joe Biden on Display in Dueling Town Halls

FMR. GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R-CA): Government was not prepared for this disaster and for this virus. Even though they knew that there was a break up, because I remember end of December when I was appearing either in television, there was this enormous break up in China and that it would mostly likely spread all over the world. So everyone knew at that point already. So there was no Governor was ready to go with this whole thing. They all were caught with their, you know, by surprise. No hospital was ready really to go. The federal government was not ready for this kind of attack of the virus. No state -- I mean, it was amazing that -- I remember that I was sitting and said, wait a minute, nobody has protective gear. Hospitals don't have protective gear. The federal government does not protective gear. The state doesn't have it, the city doesn't have it. What's going on here? And so, I put in a million dollars to buy some protective gear for some of the important hospital here in Los Angeles area that I was familiar with. And so in order to get those guys jump started and help them. But I mean, it's crazy when you think about that. And I think that what happened is that we see that some of our systems really don't work as well as the systems in other countries, like, for instance, when you pass a law in Austria it is a law that is for the entire country. When you pass a law in Germany it's for the entire country. It's not even a question about this district and this school district, does this, and this school district does that, and they have this kind of study, they had that kind of study and all messed up. It's a mishmash of different things that doesn't work. It is like a team cannot have (inaudible) --</s>DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Governor, with all due respect, I got to say that if you look at most developed nations there are some hot spots that are happening in developed nations now if you look to Europe and other places. But most developed nations have lower death rates. They had buy-in from the public. Their leaders took it seriously. If they didn't at first, they started to. But this president now, though, is still having crowds and super spreader events and worried about adoring fans and ratings. He is using his recovery from the coronavirus to sort of project a strong man image. You know that. You have a history with him. You took over the apprentice from him. I mean, what is going on here? Can you take us inside his thinking? Do you know?</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: I cannot go inside his head and tell you what he's thinking and why he's doing that and why he is in denial of this whole thing. I have no idea. But I tell you one thing, if I would have been there, I would have brought the country together, Democrats and Republicans, and passed national laws so that we have one uniformity. I mean one kind of law for the whole country, every state, because even though there is not hot spot in one state or another state, people are traveling. People travel from New York to Los Angeles, from Los Angeles to Phoenix, from Phoenix to Atlanta, from Atlanta to Columbus, Ohio, that's how it goes. So, they're carrying the virus around and they are infecting everyone, even though it isn't there originally. So, I think we have to have a national policy. Those policies work very well in European countries and also in Asian countries. And that's what we have to have but there is no one is there yet come together in Washington, which is, of course, a whole another subject when we talk about inefficiency in Washington, how they get nothing done. But not only the coronavirus, but if it has to do with building infrastructure or taking care of our immigration, disaster that we have, and we need immigration reform our health care disaster, all those kind of things. They are not taking care of it. They can't get anything done, and this has now really kind of shown with the coronavirus how it has spread because they're not coming together, Democrats and Republicans, and solving this problem. It's not a political issue. They're making it a political issue.</s>LEMON: And masks as well.</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: You can't say it doesn't exist, Democrats say it's terrible. I mean, it's like why are we talking about parties here in the first place?</s>LEMON: Yes. Listen, I may have misspoken, I don't know if I did. I may have said developing. I meant developed nations. So, listen, I've got to ask you, because I'm not sure if you know this, but -- and I heard this lie, I'm a Howard Stern super fan. Last year when asked on Howard Stern on the Howard Stern show if you were going to vote for President Trump, you said, I doubt it. So has that changed? Will you be voting for Joe Biden?</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: You know something that I'm not going to go and make an announcement here today. I want people to walk away from this show and say, Schwarzenegger helped voting places to open up. He is putting his money down. That's a great immigrant. He is participating. He is moving the country forward in the right direction. He doesn't just talk about it, he's doing something about it. That's the bottom line. And to me, at this hour, you know, our event we're going to have at the USC Schwarzenegger Institute is also one of those things, but I don't want to get involved in this Democrats against Republicans. I invited speakers from both parties. There's Al Sharpton will be having a long discussion, Eric Holder who was, you know, the Attorney General (inaudible) --</s>LEMON: Let me tell people what it is.</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: -- who is now the Obama administration. We include everyone. And police chiefs, in academics, and everyone is included in this in order to really get this to talk about the issue of equality.</s>LEMON: Let me tell people what it is, right, so that you can elaborate on it more. This is very important to both of us. In collaboration with Al Sharpton online platform twitch, you are hosting a summit that's focused on racial equity. It's starting tomorrow. So tell me, what is it and what is your goal?</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: My goal is that we through this case with George Floyd, it has become really kind of a front and center kind of a subject in America that we don't have equality. And, you know, and the sad story is that it doesn't matter what administration is in power and who is in power in Washington. Democrats and Republicans really have moved forward the whole, you know, agenda on this whole thing to create equality. They have had many shots to do it and they haven't done it and so now it is time that we talk about it and that we put together a blueprint because, as, you know, people have said in the past, that dialogue doesn't really help solving it if we don't have a clear blue print on this whole thing. And so we have to have a plan, and this is what we're putting together this next three days with all those brain power that we have from both parties and try to put together a plan on what needs to be done because, the equality sucks in America. I've seen it firsthand when I was Governor. I mean, in education alone, when you go to a school where black people, the black children are, I mean, the school looks run down. It wasn't financed the right way because they are relying on property taxes and the property taxes in poor neighborhoods is so much less than it is in Beverley Hills or Santa Monica. So, how can they build the same kind of school with the same kind of quality teachers and all that stuff? It is bogus. As a matter of fact, I even went with the ACLU which is very unusual thing for me to do, to go with the ACLU and to settle a case, the Williams case in order to give children equal education in California. And everyone in Sacramento fought me on this whole thing, and then we got it done. So I am much very strong advocate for equal education, equal opportunities, equal in everything and there's just so much inequality. If it is buying a house, if it is going getting a loan, if it is securing the loan, if it is education, if it is voting, if it is, you know, the criminal justice, and the list goes on and on and on, and we have to get in there and dig in and talk about it in an honest way, and then solve those problems once and for all and move the agenda forward. I mean, think about it. This is 2020. And we still haven't gotten rid of the lynching law. I mean, its like -- hello, what's going on here? So, I mean, look in the last 20 years we avoid Republicans (inaudible), we have Democrats (inaudible) and we have the Republicans there. So, it's like -- it's crazy. They've got to move these things forward and create true equality.</s>LEMON: We need more people like you in Washington, in this country. I've got to tell you, I love everything you said. Two things. Sometimes, you know, you see celebrities and they just tweet or Instagram or whatever. You actually do things. And you put your money where your mouth is and I really appreciate you use your platform for the right thing. I'm so happy that you came on. I have to tell you what you were saying about education and property values, I have a podcast called silence is not an option. You should listen to it. I did an episode on that where we talk specifically about what you're saying not too long ago. And I also have one coming out -- that came out today that deals with why people should vote. The two subjects that you discussed. Governor, thank you. Please come back any time. I would love to have you. Thank you.</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: I will. Thank you very much. Thank you, Don.</s>LEMON: Thank you.</s>SCHWARZENEGGER: Thank you.</s>LEMON: 19 days until Election Day, everyone. That was the Governor, former Governor of California. Did you hear what he had to say? Bringing people together, amazing. We need more people like him. So it's 19 days till Election Day. President Trump, Joe Biden in dueling town halls tonight after the second presidential debate which was supposed to be held tonight. It's what canceled when the president refused to do it virtually. Both candidates facing tough questions from voters, Trump angry and combative in his town hall, continuing his pattern of stoking divisions. Biden calling for unity and bipartisanship in America in 2020. So where do we go from here? Let's discuss now. CNN's political Director Mr. David Chalian and our senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson. Thank you so much, both of you for joining us. We need more people like Governor Schwarzenegger in Washington. I hope he gets what he wants done when it comes to racial justice and when it comes to voting. So, David, I'm going to start with you. 19 days to go until Election Day and voters got these dueling town hall instead of a debate. That shows a divide in America. Did anyone come out on top tonight, David?</s>DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: It's hard to say that I think anything really moved where the electorate is in this race. But these two town halls I think sort of get at the two totally different universes that these candidates are existing in as they're making their closing arguments. Joe Biden's town hall, tons of policy substance, taking his time, answering every question afterwards. Trying, you know, critiquing the president's management of the coronavirus pandemic as is the thrust of his campaign message. But doing the gamut on taxes, on race, on criminal justice. He sort of just went through a whole litany of policy positions. Donald Trump's universe was what we've seen from Donald Trump, Don, for 3.5 years, which is stoking the base, sending out signals, you know, not dismissing QAnon, not totally denouncing that as a nutty conspiracy theory that it is. Instead, acting like he doesn't know about it, which makes no sense obviously.</s>LEMON: He also didn't know when his last negative test was, but go on.</s>CHALIAN: Exactly. And you know, and so, and he's still questioning the science around wearing masks. He's throwing his FBI Director -- I mean, this is just -- we got the regular Trump show. We did not get an incumbent president who is behind for his battle for reelection trying to use this platform tonight to really upend the trajectory of this race. That we did not get.</s>LEMON: Well, it's interesting when -- if you watch the former vice- president, it sounded like a president. And if you watch Donald Trump, it did not sound like a president, it sounds like reality TV show person which is what he was before. Nia, you know, did President Trump do anything to help his campaign here? I mean, he still can't say, as I mention, when he last tested negative or had a COVID test. He didn't deny or if he had it before the last debate, he didn't deny this The New York Times story on his taxes. And while he did denounce white supremacy, he seemed angry and quickly pivoted to Antifa.</s>NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, I mean, frankly, he seemed angry and combative the whole time. I mean, he was on a 10 and you saw Savannah Guthrie there trying to fact check him in real-time by comparison. I think, David is exactly right, Biden was very calm. It was sort of a relaxing atmosphere. And I think for viewers it was the same way for viewers of Biden versus Donald Trump. Donald Trump is behind in all of the demographics that Republicans do well in, older voters. Some polls even have him behind by double digits among white voters. He's not going to be able to win if he's not able to do well in those demographics. It also -- I think wasn't a good look to be so combative in that setting with Savannah Guthrie, with a woman as he is struggling so terribly with women. So, it was not a good look for him tonight. I think in some ways it's a preview of what we'll probably see in this next debate. He is not using these venues, at least so far, to gain any ground on Biden. He is just being Trump. The Trumpiest of Trump I think we saw tonight and I imagine that's what we'll see next week as well.</s>LEMON: David, one answer that sure has people talking tonight from the president, here it is.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is this theory that Democrats are satanic pedophile ring and that you are the savior of that. Now can you just once and for all state that that is completely not true and disavow QAnon in its entirety?</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know nothing about QAnon --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just told you.</s>TRUMP: I know very least -- you told me, but what you tell me doesn't necessarily make it fact. I hate to say that. I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard. But I know nothing about it.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They believe it is a satanic cult run by the deep state.</s>LEMON: I mean, David, this is just going to embolden the nuttiness of that group and people -- come on.</s>CHALIAN: Well, you know, the last time he was asked about this, he seemed to know something else about QAnon, which is that many of its supporters and believers seem to like him.</s>LEMON: Well, he just said he knew nothing about them, but I know that they -- they're against pedophilia. I thought he knew nothing about it. So, it contradicted himself in saying -- (inaudible)</s>CHALIAN: Right, but he got to the very core issue at the center of the conspiracy theory. So, he seemed to know, he seemed to know something about it. And, you know, this is classic Donald Trump, too, right? He never wants to sort of give the stiff arm to any -- no matter how fringe, if there is a level of support or appreciation for him. And he doesn't want to offend that in any way.</s>LEMON: Interesting. Thank you both. I appreciate it. I got to get to the fact check now. Thank you. I appreciate it. Resident fact checker Daniel Dale. Daniel, boy oh, boy, oh boy, I hope you drank lots of water, because you've got a lot to talk about. This evening's town hall President Trump made multiple false claims. He claimed that the CDC said 85 percent of people who wear masks get coronavirus. Give us a fact check.</s>DANIEL DALE, CNN FACT CHECKER: So, this CDC study, Don, did not even look at the percentage of people who wear masks that get the coronavirus. That just not what it was about. So what it did find was that of 154 people it was studying in July who had the coronavirus, about 71 percent of those people said that they always wore masks in the previous 14 days before their illness came on and about 14 percent said that they often wore masks. So that is not what the president said. In addition, there's lots of problems with asserting that this says that masks are bad or something. Number one, we don't know how often those often people wore it. Number two, even a bunch of those always people also admitted that they had eaten at restaurants during those 14 days. You can't really eat at a restaurant with your mask. And number three, we know that the primary purpose of mask is to prevent infection among other people, not yourself, although it does provide some protection. So, even if some of those people did get infected while wearing masks, that doesn't mean that masks don't work at all.</s>LEMON: So much to talk about, Daniel. But you know, I have a short time. So thank you for that one.</s>DALE: No problem.</s>LEMON: We'll see you soon. Get some rest. So, who had a better night tonight? The president or Joe Biden, the former vice president? And did their voters like what they heard? We'll see next.

Biden on Supreme Court Expansion; Trump Dodges Questions about Roe V. Wade

LEMON: So, one of the biggest questions Joe Biden faced in the town hall tonight was whether he would support a push to add seats to the Supreme Court. Here's how he answered.</s>JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm not a fan -- I didn't say -- it depends on how this turns out. Not how he wins, but how it's handled, how it's handled. But there's a number of things that are going to be coming up and there's going to be a lot of discussion about other alternatives as well.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't voters have a right to know where --</s>BIDEN: They do have a right to know where I stand. I have a right to know where I stand before they vote.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you'll come out with a clear position before Election Day?</s>BIDEN: Yes, depending on how they handle this.</s>LEMON: So joining me now senior political analyst Kirsten Powers, CNN political commentator Mike Shields. I appreciate both of you joining us. I think if you watch, you know how I feel about this, you know, expanding the court question, and I think it's a red herring and you know, we need to focus on things that happen now. But since he answered and he said he's coming out with a clear position, I think it is now time to ask this question. So, Kirsten, Biden, you know, is he at risk of alienating progressives with a noncommittal answer?</s>KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, it sounds like he's going to make a committal answer, so I think that he's been trying to avoid that because honestly, I think he's conflicted about it. It's something that I think is a perfectly defensible position and it's certainly the position of progressives. But it's not necessarily something that is the position of moderate Democrats, which Biden is contrary to what the Trump people tell you. So, he's in a little bit of a pickle, I think. And I think the truth is he doesn't really know exactly what he would do and he's sort of been trying to buy himself some time.</s>LEMON: Well, he said we're going to find out before the Election Day. Let's listen to the president on Roe V. Wade.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you like to see Roe V. Wade overturned?</s>TRUMP: I would like to see a brilliant jurist, a brilliant person who has done this in great depth that has actually skirted this issue for a long time make a decision. And that's why I chose her. I think that she's going to make a great decision. I did not tell her what decision to make and I think it would be inappropriate to say right now because I don't want to do anything to influence her. I want her to get approved and then I want her to go by the law.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most Pro-life Republicans would like to see Roe V. Wade overturned and abortion ban.</s>TRUMP: Many of them would.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible).</s>TRUMP: Most of them would. I am telling you I don't want to do anything to influence anything right now. I don't want to go out tomorrow and say, oh, he's trying to give her a signal, because I didn't speak to her about it.</s>LEMON: So, Mike, he's answered this question before on Roe V. Wade. Why such a dodgy answer there?</s>SHIELDS: Because he has a nominee in front of the Senate before the Supreme Court. That's why. I thought it was a great answer. That was very disciplined. You know, as many times we come on here and we have a conversation about how some of those answers, you know, we may have wish for more discipline. I thought that was very disciplined. I thought it was exactly the right thing to say. You know, I think it's amazing what we were just talking about with the court packing issue --</s>LEMON: Wait. Hold on, hold on. I just want some more clarity on you thought it was disciplined and amazing because?</s>SHIELDS: Because he didn't get trapped into talking about -- we all know he's pro-life. But he has a nominee in front of the Senate for the Supreme Court, that's one of the lines of questioning of the Senators of this nominee was how she would rule on things to try and pin her down as is tradition. Court nominees when they come before the Senate don't tell you how they're going to rule because you're asking them a hypothetical on a case and the president was --</s>LEMON: It sounds like he was disciplined enough not to give an honest answer.</s>SHIELDS: He was disciplined enough not to get sucked into a question when he has a nominee in front of the Senate over you know, because what it's going to look like is, well, yes, I'm pro-life and so obviously that's why I want Roe V. Wade overturned. And that's how obviously why I nominated this person. And that's kind of a gotcha question. And I thought it was a great answer from him.</s>POWERS: That's not why he gave the answer that he gave.</s>SHIELDS: People, those who already know the president of United States is pro-life.</s>POWERS: He gave the answer that he gave.</s>SHIELDS: There's no, there's absolutely no mistake -- sure.</s>POWERS: OK. Well, he was actually asked what he would want and he didn't answer it, but it's the position of the Republican Party, it's in the Republican Party platform to overturn Roe V. Wade. The president, yes, is very clear that he supports that and that he's appointing justices to do that. And so, but the reason he answered the question the way that he did was -- had nothing to do with the fact that he has a nominee in front of the Supreme Court and everything to do with the fact that the majority of Americans don't want Roe V. Wade overturned. So, this is a very dicey political issue for them. In particular for suburban women voters who they really need to stick with them and to vote for them. And so he just didn't want to answer the question because it would be politically difficult for him.</s>LEMON: All right. More to come. We'll talk more. Thank you very much. Listen, I want to make sure that you know about my podcast, Silence is not an option. I'm taking on hard questions about being black in America. Also talking about voting rights. So, that's what this week's episode is. So over the next few weeks, we'll be talking about the election, voting and social justice. So this episode, why vote, it's called why vote. You can find it on Apple Podcast or your favorite podcast app.</s>LEMON: Let me ask you, is voting really the most effective path to change you think?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it is one of many ways. When you're talking about building a robust democracy, you need many, many access points and many tools. You know, and I think that we have to be honest about it. We have to be honest that voting is not the panacea. It will not solve all of the problems in our community. But I think we also have to recognize that voting is certainly a leverage of power.</s>LEMON: And up next, a lot of people are pretty angry at NBC for holding the Trump town hall at the same time as Biden's. Some say the network was manipulated by the president. Plus two very different views on the coronavirus pandemic at the town halls tonight. We're going to bring you the facts.

Chris Christie Says He was Wrong not to Wear Mask in White House

LEMON: Tonight, 35 states are seeing spikes in coronavirus. The U.S. is reporting nearly 60,000 new cases on Wednesday. And the crisis is front and center in the dueling town halls tonight. Stark contrast, though, between President Trump and the former vice president, Joe Biden, in how to respond to this pandemic. Let's discuss now with CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He is the director of the cardiac catheterization lab at George Washington University Hospital. Doctor, good to see you once again. So, President Trump is repeating a false claim about masks tonight, refusing to answer whether he supports herd immunity. Meanwhile, we heard from Chris Christie, spent seven days in the ICU after contracting COVID, he released a statement that reads in part, and I quote here. "I was wrong. I was wrong to not wear a mask at the Amy Coney Barrett announcement. And I was wrong not to wear a mask at my multiple debate prep sessions with the president and the rest of the team. I hope that my experience shows my fellow citizens that you should follow CDC guidelines in public no matter where you are and wear a mask to protect yourself and others." Wow! Nothing at all like that we heard from the president.</s>JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, DIRECTOR OF CARDIAC CATHETERIZATION PROGRAM AT GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Right. It sounds like Governor Christie had an awakening. You know, you see this sometimes in people after a hospital stay. They re-evaluate where they've been and where they want to go. And a lot of what he said actually touched me. It sounded sort of both humble and angry at the same time when he started talking about how, you know, he believed he'd be safe at the White House but he wasn't, you know, he should have worn a mask when he went to the SCOTUS announcement, he should have worn a mask at the debate prep. He sounded like he had been betrayed, that he had been told that it was safe and it wasn't. It was sort of a confession. It was, it was -- the tone of the statement was what we all hoped we would hear from the president's VIP suite at Walter Reed when he was recovering, telling the country that, you know, I'm glad I'm getting better, but let me tell you that this is no joke, we need to protect ourselves, we need to wear masks, we need to social distance, don't let this happen to you. We didn't get that from the president. We got this</s>LEMON: The president was asked about Christie's comments tonight. Here it is.</s>TRUMP: Well, I mean, he has to say that. I think it's great. He's a friend of mine. He's a good guy. And wrong or not wrong -- you have to understand, as president, I can't be locked in a room someplace for the next year and just stay and do nothing.</s>LEMON: Wow! Doesn't sound like he's too concerned about his friend there or that he actually learned anything from being sick.</s>REINER: Yes, but it's a lack -- he's demonstrating a lack of insight. What he's saying when he says he can't be locked in a room, he's saying that the reason he got COVID was that, you know, he had to be a man of the people, he had to be out, you know, in the United States taking care of business. When the truth is he contracted COVID because he never wore a mask when he went out. And he never wore a mask in the White House. And he wasn't tested every day. And they relied on this false sense of security using tests the way they were never intended to be used. He didn't get COVID because he was conducting the country's business. He got COVID because he was stubborn and foolish. That's really the truth.</s>LEMON: Mm-hmm. And when he's at those events or when he's out there, he's not -- he's socially distancing. Usually, he is not -- people don't really get that close to him. So, he must have gotten it from somewhere, probably in his inner circle.</s>REINER: Right.</s>LEMON: We don't know for sure, but likely. Thank you, doctor. I appreciate it.</s>REINER: My pleasure.</s>LEMON: President Trump and Joe Biden answering questions from voters tonight, and the way they spoke with these voters show just how different they are.

Republican Sen. Ben Sasse Criticizes President Trump on Policies, Ethics.

LEMON: A stark contrast between President Trump and Joe Biden in their dueling town halls tonight. I want to discuss now with CNN contributor Frank Bruni, a columnist for The New York Times, and political commentator Amanda Carpenter, former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz. Hello. "Gaslighting America," that's the name of her book, right?</s>LEMON: Why we love it when Trump gaslights America. Is that the right thing?</s>AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR COMMUNICATIONS ADVISOR AND SPEECHWRITER FOR SENATOR TED CRUZ: We love it when Trump lies to us.</s>LEMON: OK, got it.</s>CARPENTER: Yes.</s>LEMON: Thank you. So, Frank, check out how the former vice president, Biden, and President Trump interacted with voters. Watch.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My youngest daughter is transgender. The Trump administration has attacked the rights of transgender people, banning them from military service, and weakening non-discrimination protections.</s>BIDEN: I promise you, there is no reason to suggest that there should be any right denied your daughter or daughters, whichever, one or two.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the mother of a young male of color, I have reason to respect authority, not only because it's the right thing to do but also out of fear that he may face profiling or be considered a criminal. As an educator, I've also had similar conversations with my high school students. Mr. President, what will you and your administration do to better prepare our law enforcement officers to work in collaboration with the communities that they serve and also to protect the lives of innocent black and Latinos from police brutality and injustice?</s>TRUMP: Right. I fully understand the question. And I saw everything that you saw over the summer and it was a terrible thing, a terrible thing to watch. I have done more for the African-American community than any president, with the exception of Abraham Lincoln.</s>BIDEN: I hope I answered your question. If you, in fact, and I were the same age and we split our differences and we were the same age, and we went to the same builder to buy us each the same home, but my home was in a white neighborhood on one side of a highway and yours is in a black neighborhood. Same exact home. Your home will start off being valued 29 percent less than my home. Yet your insurance for that home will be higher. You'll be taxed more for it. We've got to end this.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Did you hear what you needed to hear?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think so.</s>BIDEN: Well, there's a lot more. If you can hang around afterwards, I'll tell you more.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a pro-life millennial, and my question for you today is, if Roe v. Wade is ultimately overturned in the future, what protections would be put in place or kept for where the mother's life is in jeopardy in relation to high-risk pregnancies?</s>TRUMP: Again, I am not ruling --</s>LEMON: OK. Polar opposites, Frank.</s>FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Total polar opposites, yes. I mean, you know, Don, there are elections where the distinctions between candidates are murky. You know, and you sort of wonder how much of a difference is there. This is not one of those elections. These candidates are night and day. In the way they conducted these town halls tonight, it was night and day, as well. I mean, Joe Biden is saying, I want to listen to you and I hear you. And Donald Trump, as always, is saying, I want to talk, hear me. Joe Biden is saying, I want to do better by you and other Americans. Donald trump is saying, look how great I've done. And this is just par for the course. There were no surprises tonight, but I think there was a crystal-clear expression of the choice before American voters.</s>LEMON: Amanda, you know, GOP Senator Ben Sasse, who is up for re- election, he has confirmed that this is real. I want you to listen to what he told thousands of constituents.</s>SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE) (voice-over): The way he kisses dictators' butts. I mean, the way he ignores that the Uighurs are in literal concentration camps in Xinjiang right now. He hasn't lifted a finger on behalf of the Hong-Kongers. I mean he and I have a very different foreign policy. It isn't just that he fails to lead our allies it's that we -- the United States now regularly sells out our allies under his leadership." "The way he treats women and spends like a drunken sailor, the ways I criticize President Obama for that kind of spending; I've criticized President Trump for as well. He mocks evangelicals behind closed doors. His family has treated the president like a business opportunity. He's flirted with white supremacists."</s>LEMON: Wow! I mean, he excoriates him. He just hammers him there. What did you think? Why is he doing this now?</s>CARPENTER: Yes. My question is, Senator Sasse, where have you been? I've been waiting for that guy to show up for a long time. I mean, listen, in 2016, he was a critic of Donald Trump. He said if the GOP becomes a party of David Duke, I'm out. And he stayed in, every step of the darn way. And he's up for election this year. But he stayed quiet so he wouldn't draw a primary challenger. And he got the endorsement from Donald Trump. He didn't decline that. He accepted it. And now, now past impeachment, now past everything, when the writing is on the wall that Donald Trump is probably going to go down, he tells his constituents how he really feels? Man. There are a lot of people. I think we are going to see a lot more of this. There's going to be people like Ben Sasse who come out and say, yes, you know, I had questions, I was angry with him all along. But you didn't lead when it was hard. So don't you dare expect to step up and lead when it is easy.</s>LEMON: Mm-hmm. So, let me ask you, Frank. You know, on Capitol Hill -- well, let's play this. There's more from Ben Sasse. Let's play this.</s>SASSE: First, he ignored COVID. And then he went into full economic shutdown mode. He was the one who said 10 to 14 days of shutdown would fix this.</s>SASSE: And that was always wrong. I mean, and so I don't think the way he's led through COVID has been reasonable or responsible or right.</s>LEMON: So, he speaks to the total incompetence about what is going on. But I think Amanda has a very good point. Why not say this before, when it could have saved thousands of lives?</s>BRUNI: Well, I mean, Amanda said something very important, which is they don't want to draw a primary challenge and he wanted to sew up (ph) Donald Trump's endorsement. Those things have been accomplished. Now, I guess he is feeling a little bit freer to speak his mind. Couple things I want to say here, Don. What the senator is saying here is what many, many Republican senators say behind closed doors. It's what they really think of President Trump. And that's what's so shocking and dispiriting. You're not listening to some late in the game epiphany or conversion.</s>LEMON: Mm-hmm.</s>BRUNI: You are listening to what Senator Sasse said, you know, a very kind of comprehensive though succinct and eloquent case against Donald Trump that I think any number of Republican senators would make or do make when the microphones are off and when they are not worried about drawing the president's ire. And the story of this era is about that sort of hypocrisy and contradiction, toeing the line, supporting the president when it's not going to hurt you when in your conscience, you know, and the truth is that you think he is a terrible leader.</s>LEMON: Yes. I got to run. We are out of time. Thank you both. I appreciate it. We will be right back.

Pandemic Causes Ten of Millions of People into Poverty; Interview with Mariana Mazzucato, Professor in the Economics of Innovation, University College of London , Poverty and COVID-19; Around the World in 80 Days with Michael Palin; Interview With Pastor Joel Hunter.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The struggle is, sometimes we eat, sometimes we don't.</s>AMANPOUR: In the United States and around the world, coronavirus forces tens of millions more into poverty. Economist, Mariana Mazzucato, tells me why we must fix capitalism and not just go back to normal. Then --</s>MICHAEL PALIN, ACTOR AND COMEDIAN: I can bring a picture from a country that comforts me and interests me and excites me at almost any time.</s>AMANPOUR: Around the world in 80 days? Not possible in a pandemic. So, I reminisce with a national treasure. Yes, Monty Python cult hero, Michael Palin, joins me. Plus --</s>JOEL C. HUNTER, CO-FOUNDER, "PRO-LIFE EVANGELICALS FOR BIDEN": Opposite of the gospel, it is me first, our country first, America first. Nobody else counts as much as we do.</s>AMANPOUR: Breaking with the base. Why some evangelicals are turning away from the president. Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Amid a second COVID wave and plunging economies, it's important to remember that behind every statistic lies a human being, a person. Just as the U.S. approaches 8 million coronavirus cases, another 8 million people slip into poverty. That is since May according to Columbia University. 1 million people have died around the world. More than 38 million people are infected. And the Gates Foundation reports the pandemic has pushed another 37 million people into extreme poverty. That means living on less than $1.90 per day. By the way, the rich are still getting richer. Much, much richer, in fact. And as the United States and Europe struggle with how to relieve this human suffering, it's going to get worse with new lockdowns and restrictions on the way. We'll delve into all these shocking statistics with our first guest tonight. She is the economist and professor, Mariana Mazzucato, also author of "The Value of Everything," and she says it will take a complete overhaul of capitalism as we know it to right this ship. Mariana Mazzucato, welcome back to the program. Those statistics are really horrendous and you've seen all these rolling new instructions from various governments, certainly around Europe, of lockdowns and curfews and tiers. And it's causing a lot of backlash on the ground. What do you -- how do you assess the situation right now?</s>MARIANA MAZZUCATO, PROFESSOR IN THE ECONOMICS OF INNOVATION, UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF LONDON: So, I'm not a medic. So, I just talk about the economic, you know, situation. And I think, you know, unfortunately, with the lockdown, if it happens, it happens. But the real question is how do we structure it? You know, there is different way to structure about the recovery funds that are going to be needed, even more now with lots of businesses probably again having to close, if we think of the hospitality sector. But the question is, can we, even in the structure of those recovery funds, or also how workers are going to, you know, probably need, again, for a longer period to have a furlough scheme, how can we actually structure that so it really does "build back better?" And I think there, we need to really study what's happened in the last six months. There's been, you know, real heterogeneity differences in how governments have responded. And those that have also turned this crisis into an opportunity, and I know that sometimes sounds strange, but an opportunity for really turning their economy into a stronger one, a more resilient one, we need to learn those lessons. And it's really interesting how some of these countries were developing countries. So, both Vietnam and for example, Kerala in the state -- sorry, in India, both have been investing over the last decade or so inside their public sector. They haven't been doing, for example, what's happened here in the U.K. where I'm standing, sitting, which is kind of outsource that public sector capacity, including the testing that's being outsourced right now to the consulting companies. So, when you strengthen your public system, you can govern a crisis better. And so, there's lots of lessons like that, including also coming back to the recovery scheme issue. In France, Macron was very clear. He said, you know, yes, we will help business, but we won't do it just as a handout. We have to build back better. So, he put really strong conditions on the car company, Renault, and Air France to actually lower their carbon emissions. And that shouldn't be seen as a penalty. It's really an incentive to innovate and to invest in this very difficult period so that later, once we have a proper recovery, we have actually a more sustainable economy.</s>AMANPOUR: So, that's really encouraging to hear, because the stats are really quite tragic right now, if you talk about individual people and I reeled off the millions of people who have been plunged into poverty. Vietnam is a miracle that we should -- at least that's what it's being called -- that we should actually be discussing and Kerala really interesting and what you said about the conditions for a lot of these loans, as you said, with Macron. But here in the U.K., for instance, this triple tiered system, you can see the leaders, the elected leaders of the region, like right now up in Manchester and elsewhere, they are just -- they're on the brink of refusing the orders from the central government here in London. And I just want to read you what -- or play you what a very prominent British dame in the House of Lords said today about what the people are going to be left with if they just get a part of their salaries paid. This is what she said. It was quite shocking.</s>LOUISE CASEY, FORMER U.K. GOVERNMENT ADVISER ON HOMELESSNESS: Do we want to go back to the days where people can't put shoes on their children's feet? You know, this is what we are talking about. Are we actually asking people in places like Liverpool to go out and prostitute themselves so that actually they can put food on the table?</s>AMANPOUR: So, that is Dickensian. I mean, that is really raising a very, very tragic and ugly specter. She used to be a government adviser. She's advised this one before. She's been working on poverty issues for decades. And she says she's never seen anything like this. This is Britain.</s>MAZZUCATO: But she's right. She's absolutely right. And unfortunately, that was also Britain before this crisis. You know, the level of inequality in this developed economy is very high. As it is in the United States. And so, the problem is that when you have a crisis like this, unless it's managed properly, then those who are most vulnerable, who were already vulnerable, lose off, you know, incredibly. You were talking before about the companies that are actually, you know, making billions off of this crisis because we're all on Amazon more than ever, we're all in Netflix more than ever when we can't go outside. Those companies are doing fine. But those who've actually worked in the gig economy, who don't have benefits, who don't even pre-COVID have benefits, whether it's holiday pay or pensions, they are suffering incredibly right now as do those who were unemployed. And so, there's nothing inevitable about suffering. It depends how we actually structure our economic system. When we go to war, we somehow just find money, right, to fight the war. No one says there's no tax revenue, we can't go to Afghanistan. So, we really have to treat this with the same level of urgency, emergency, empathy, solidarity, as we do in a wartime. And I don't like to, you know, say that we have to think of it as war, but we really need to think of it as a security issue in the same way that Greta Thunberg said that, you know, if your house was burning down, you wouldn't debate what to do, you would get out. And she said that about climate change. Treat it as an emergency. Listen to the science. That's exactly what we have to do right now. And believe me, there's lots of scientists who have been both warning about what we should have been doing in the last six months but also how to steer the next six months in such a way that actually creates certainty. The problem right now in the U.K. is that you have these different regions that are -- it's almost like a, you know, race to the bottom. Like, if you don't have a national plan and a national level of really seeing, you know, all the different regions and how to make sure that it's not about asking the mayors or the regional, you know, administrators to pick up the pieces, we're already hearing this, by the way. After the very generous recovery fund in the U.K., very soon, we started hearing about burden sharing. And burden sharing means really that the local councils, for example, will have to make cuts eventually. That makes no sense. You know, the one thing that this pandemic has taught us, that health systems really matter, global health systems matter. We are only as safe as our neighbor is, on our street and our city and our country and internationally. So, had this crisis begun in a country that had a weaker health system, for example, than China's, we would all globally be worse off. So, the last thing you want is to be asking local administrations to start cutting in order to share the burden of the extra funds that the government unleashed rightly so in the emergency. And so, this is what we really need to keep our eye on.</s>AMANPOUR: So, I'm going to ask you in a second, you know, how -- what you would advise for these next six months since the first sixth months were kind of wasted in terms of economic activity. And particularly, as you remember, everybody was saying, oh, it's going to be a V-shaped recovery. It's going to go down, then it's going to up. But actually, it's K-shaped, which apparently, for you economist know better than me, means frankly the rich people go up and the poor people go down. That apparently is the summing up of a K-shaped recovery which we're seeing now. The World Food Programme, he just got the Nobel Peace Prize, right, for combatting hunger. David Beasley, who is a former government of South Carolina, I need an additional $5 billion, folks, right now to save 30 million people. Just $5 billion. It may sound like a lot to a lot of people, but UBS has said that the super-rich have increased their take to $10.2 trillion under this COVID. That's 27.5 percent increase in their pockets. So, who -- who's incentivized to help and what should, for instance, a government here do, let's say?</s>MAZZUCATO: Well, again, I mean, I really think it's important to owe a start with what we were seeing before this crisis. We already had taxation around the world that was regressive, that wasn't really re-distributional. We had too much tax evasion and avoidance, which, you know, by a lot of these companies that are doing very well right now which then hurts the public purse, it hurts the public purse that's required for public education, public transport, public health. So, all these problems were already there. In a crisis, the problem escalates, as we were just saying. Those who were most vulnerable before and who were losing out lose out even more now. And so, what we absolutely need to do is to make our economies as re-distributional as we can in the first instance. So, help those most needy, as Pope Francis said. He talks about that we need to always, you know, be thinking how policies are affecting the poor and to, you know, use that as a guiding device. And whether one is religious or not, it makes a lot of sense, but that actually means doing things very, very differently. And, you know, this is why we need to talk about how we are recovering right now, today, over the next months, if there are more furlough schemes, for example, that are necessary so governments can help in the U.K. but also elsewhere, companies continue to pay their worker's wages, at least those lucky enough to have a job. That -- it's all should be conditional that as soon as those furloughs are up, those workers aren't just immediately fired, right? There's all sorts of ways that you can structure within, the bailouts, the different types of recovery plans, ways to make sure that this is sustainable, that actually makes our economy more resilient.</s>AMANPOUR: OK. So, Mariana, why aren't they doing it, then? Why aren't they doing it? You know, there seems to be a global allergy to deficits and people say, oh, well, if you do all this spending, we're just going to go back to austerity like we did in the mid-2008. But I'm hearing the IMF saying spend, spend, spend, just keep the receipts. Other economists are saying, you may be one of them, you know, just spend. I mean, you know, put the money into the system. Why is that OK now when deficits were, you know, the bug-a-boo just a few years ago?</s>MAZZUCATO: So, I mean, I've been saying to invest for a long time. But the question is, how do you invest, right? So, the obsession with the deficit was always ill-placed. It made very little sense. Again, I'm from Italy, or I didn't tell you that, I am from Italy, and, you know, there was a lot of obsession about reducing Italy's deficit after the financial crisis. All we needed to do was look at Italy's numbers, the definite was never that high. The debt to GDP was high. Why? Because it wasn't growing. Productivity wasn't growing. So, the denominator to GPD wasn't growing. To get long-term growth and to get directed growth, to be more inclusive, so less than equality, to be more sustainable, more green, you need a particular type of investment but you also need a particular type of public/private partnership that, you know, brings us back to the conditionalities. However, I don't think we should be too pessimistic. So, in Europe -- let's ignore Brexit for a second. In Europe, the recovery scheme called Next Generation U, is quite generous and it's conditional for the first time, not like in the old days with the troika, cut, cut, cut, cut your deficit and we'll give you some money. It's actually conditional on investment. So, all the different member states are having now, literally, as we speak, October, November, up until Christmas, having to come up with strategies around digitalization, the digitalizing, the economy is reducing the digital divide, which by the way, has increased massively under the COVID lockdown and around climate mitigation and health. So that's a positive news. That's a big, big turn for the E.U., that these bailouts and the recovery funds, which total actually to _2 trillion, but the Next Gen U extra pot is _800 billion is conditional on investment towards directed growth, inclusive, sustainable, et cetera. So, that's positive. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about, you know, how to make sure it actually works, right? Because you can have an E.U. plan, but then if the member states actually are weak or if they have problematic, internal debates, you know, the country you and I are living in, even though it's not in the E.U., we can talk about how we've gotten so stuck in the Brexit debates. So, we didn't have our eye on actually strengthening the welfare state over the last six months or before, which, again, makes us more vulnerable when a crisis comes about. But, you know, different countries have their own internal squabbles. So, this is, again, a moment to say, look, there are these recovery packages, but they're not going to be miracles. You used the word miracle before when you were talking about Kerala and Vietnam. It's not a miracle. It's an outcome of the investments that they've been making. We need those kinds of investments inside the public sector capacity, inside public health systems, we need recovery schemes like in Denmark which say, if you use tax havens, sorry, you're not going to get, you know, a public subsidy. We need to restructure our economies that actually have an eye on what got us into this mess in the first place, both in terms of the financial crisis, the climate crisis and the health crisis. We have a triple crisis.</s>AMANPOUR: So, really very quickly, because we're running out of time. This is obviously urgent, right? I mean, you said some of it is good news, but you've also talked about upcoming lockdowns to do with climate in the near future. So, this is an urgent operation that needs to be undertaken.</s>MAZZUCATO: Yes. I mean, let's go back to this expression, it's an opportunity. What you don't want to do is to miss an opportunity, so later, you are forced to do something that could have, if you actually planned towards it, made it an opportunity for investment, for innovation, for new types of collaborations around all sorts of problems that COVID is confronting us with, from the digital divide, the weak health systems, to the race for the vaccine. The vaccine itself, by the way, we shouldn't just call it a race. We need to govern it properly, so, you know, we don't allow, for example, the patent system to, you know, privatize each little bit of the way. So, that's why the World Health Organization is calling for the patents to be pulled to nurture collective intelligence. But this is the point that, you know, we have to act now, but we need to act in such a way that really does build back better, and we need to learn how to do that in concrete ways which also require experimentation, and looking around the world, what can we learn? What actually happened in Kerala and Vietnam? What's happening in the U.K. that's a problem? Why is it that actually allowing private equity companies to run our care homes is a problem?</s>AMANPOUR: Right.</s>MAZZUCATO: Let's talk about that, so we start doing that as opposed to finding ourselves in this constant reactive mode instead of a proactive mode. And the climate lockdown expression that I wrote about in the project syndicate article was simply to say, with the climate, at least let's not get into ourselves where we have to one day stop, you know, everyone stop eating red meat, no one can drive a car. That's not what we want to do. We want to be in a position where we're preparing our way to investing towards a more sustainable economy so we don't then have to one day just completely, you know, shut our current lifestyles.</s>AMANPOUR: Mariana Mazzucato, thank you so much, indeed, for joining us. And now, for those of us who can afford to think of something other than this devastating hardship, we have a treat in store. My next guest is one of the world's most beloved adventurers, whose exploits on the road and in comedy, writing and acting have made him a global sensation. And along with his band of brothers in "Monty Python's Flying Circus," he's been a cult hero for generations of fans since it took off in the '70s. Michael Palin is now 77 and in a reflective mood when we met up this week. Michael Palin, welcome to the program.</s>MICHAEL PALIN, ACTOR AND COMEDIAN: Thank you.</s>AMANPOUR: I just want to ask, because, you know, you're such now known for your travel, how has COVID been for you? What has lockdown meant for you?</s>PALIN: Well, it's shut down my traveling time, but in a good way, because I've actually had time to look back on all the traveling I've done. The last 30 years, I've been all over the place. And you know, you probably know yourself, it becomes a bit of a blur if you're not careful. And it's really been quite nice to be at home. I have not left. I've not spent a night away from my house for a year. So, that's it. Which is just unheard of.</s>AMANPOUR: When you have looked back now in lockdown, what ones, if you can, you know, really, really sort of leap out at you? Which ones that you're looking back at do you say wow?</s>PALIN: Well, they were all remarkable. I mean, they really were. There wasn't one easy one, they were -- and there wasn't one dull one. They were all very extraordinary. Some days I feel I'd like to be up in the mountains, in the Himalayas or the Andes, which were just sensational. Other times I'd rather be -- you know, I remember going to the Philippines and learning how to scuba dive in about two days flat.</s>AMANPOUR: Let's just go back to being just a little bit. Where did you first get the urge to perform, to make people laugh, when did you first kind of know in your bones that this might be something you're good at?</s>PALIN: I think it happens very early on. I mean, I always knew I was curious and wanted to go to places where other people say, well, I don't know. Let's not go that far. But I wanted to go there. So, that was, I think, the traveling thing. I think it was also a feeling that I kind of saw the world very often a little step back from my friends. I've enjoyed being teams of sport and all of that, but I was -- I enjoyed looking at the world from the outside. And I think that was part of the performing thing. I was able to, you know, mimic the masters at school, which is where a lot of things happen. So, I made people laugh quite easily. I could just do a voice and this is wonderful. I've always felt myself comfortable with being the observer, looking at the madness of the world that we're all in.</s>AMANPOUR: I mean, I've read that your dad was a -- you know, a bit sort of harsh, had a stammer, wasn't particularly encouraging.</s>PALIN: Well, you know, my father, his stammer was, I think, the real problem throughout his life. And he never -- he was never able to deal with it. And so, that made him very, you know, techy and he would get, you know, quite sharp sometimes. But he had a sense of humor. And obviously, he loved -- you know, and having your son around. But my mom was really the great influence, if you like. She would just sort of feet on the ground, nothing fazed her at all, despite all, you know, the things she had been through.</s>AMANPOUR: And she liked the idea that her young son was going to be an actor or a performer or a writer?</s>PALIN: Yes, she was happy with it. My father wasn't at all. My father was deeply concerned that I might end up in the acting profession. So, he was not keen for me to act. My mother on the other hand was very happy. I used to -- when he was out of an evening, when I was quite young, I would read her sort of chunks of Shakespeare of me playing all the parts. Can you imagine that? She had to be a wonderful mom to listen to all this going on.</s>AMANPOUR: And she was your audience? You'd do it for her?</s>PALIN: She was the audience, yes. Well, I think so. She may have nodded off a bit. But what I can remember later was when we did the "Monty Python's Life of Brian," my mother was a keen churchgoer, but she defended absolutely our right to do "The Life of Brian." Because I told her, it's not about Jesus. Jesus is not Brian. It's about the church, it's about some people just accepting what -- doing what they're told. And she would take people on in that little place where she was living once she retired. She wouldn't -- you know, despite her religious background, she would say, no, nothing's wrong with this, it's all about the intolerance of the church. And people would go, yes, Mrs. Palin.</s>AMANPOUR: That's really amazing. Actually, it just led me right into a clip because somewhat around "The Life of Brian," afterwards perhaps, you and John Cleese had a television debate with an actual bishop and with Malcolm Muggeridge who was a commentator, a very famous British commentator. They both were at your throat.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you imagine that your scene from Sermon of the Mount, the scene in this -- in your film of the Sermon of the Mount is not ridiculing one of the most sublime utterances that any human being has ever spoke on this earth?</s>JOHN CLEESE, ACTOR AND COMEDIAN: No, no. It's making fun of the guy who has remembered it wrong and of the people who don't understand it missed the point.</s>PALIN: I think that's really unfair because I think that a lot of people looking and will think that we have actually ridiculed Christ physically. Christ is played by an actor, Kevin Collie (ph), he speaks the words from the Sermon on the Mount that he's treated absolutely respectfully. The camera pans away, we got to watch the back of the crowd to someone who shouts, speak up, because they cannot hear it. Now, that utterly undermines the --</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I started off by saying that this is such a tenth-rate film that I don't believe that it would disturb anybody's faith.</s>PALIN: Yes, I know you started with an open mind. I realize that.</s>AMANPOUR: So, you seemed to have been actually quite angry and irritated with them by the time this debate sort of got fully under way.</s>PALIN: I was very angry and very disappointed, because John and I had gone into the debate knowing that we were going to be given quite a roughing up, in a religious sense by a bishop and</s>AMANPOUR: I must say that was very vicious because for those who don't know, that's a reference to the 30 pieces of silvers that Judas received for betraying Jesus Christ. The whole world bought into "Life of Brian." Everybody still quotes it. It's just still such an amazing cultural touchstone. So, talking about the crucifixion, you play a very proper and polite roman, as a group of condemned are coming in and you're telling them where to go. Here's the clip.</s>PALIN: Next. Crucifixion?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.</s>PALIN: Good. Out the door, line on the left, one cross each. Next. Crucifixion?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.</s>PALIN: Good. Out of the door, line on the left, one cross each. Next, crucifixion?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, freedom for me.</s>PALIN: What?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom for me. They said I haven't done anything, so I would like to go free and live on an island somewhere.</s>PALIN: Oh, that's jolly good. Well, off you go then.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, I'm just pulling your leg. It's crucifixion, really.</s>PALIN: Oh, I see. Very good, very good. Well, out the door --</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I know the way. Out of the door, one cross each, line on the left.</s>PALIN: Line on the left.</s>AMANPOUR: So, what is that if it's not mockery?</s>PALIN: Well, I think that's -- if you look at it closely, it's actually saying a little something about the time and the historical period. And that is -- you see the background to a lot of "The Life of Brian," the fact that he -- you know, Brian had so many followers was because we had read that there was a messiah fever at that time. There was the sort of feeling that the world was coming to an end and the messiah was around. I was just putting, in that character, putting it in place someone who probably come from a very nice family outside Rome and rather comfortable and being sent off to do his army service in Judea, in this godawful place with all this other strange people. And he was trying to be as understanding as possible. You know, and when Eric says, oh, you know, no, I can't. I'll go to an island and live on this island. Oh, that's wonderful. No, he's just joking. It's crucifixion, really, which is my favorite line in the film. And power personified by the Romans, being taken for a ride. People laughing at power. But, you know, that happens quite a bit in "The Life of Brian," including, you know, Pontius Pilate when they all roll with laughter at him because he can't say</s>AMANPOUR: So, listen, you're talking about Eric Idle there and I'm really interested by what you say about power and skewering power. Now, should be -- I mean, just a land of riches for people who want to do the kind of thing you used to do. Mockery, humor, satire. And clearly, the president of the United States is a target rich environment. How do you feel -- or do you feel that there has been an adequate skewering in the way you guys did of the current autocratic tendencies?</s>PALIN: Well, I mean, I feel -- you know, take Donald Trump for a start, it's very, very difficult to be funny and more absurd and outrageous than he already is. And there really is not much else you can say. You know, people see him as a --</s>AMANPOUR: Back in your day, you used to have the ministry of silly walks and all sorts of things like that. And you must have thought about what it means to try to get under the skin of modern-day politicians. What do you think is the best way to get under the skin of those who we're discussing now?</s>PALIN: That's very difficult to know. I think you have to somehow -- well, you can quote them back at each other for a start, because what they're saying is sometimes so completely outrageous. But otherwise, I think you've just got to -- you know, you've got to find a way -- you've got to find another way of looking at what's going on, not just saying these are ridiculous people. You got to say, there's something quite dangerous that's happening here. I mean, I would -- you know, if I was doing something about Trump or something like that, I would look at the rallies, for instance, because I think those are quite sinister. I would just have a group of people that shouted at each other all the time. They always shout all the time. You look at me because that's the way you are. I'll shout at you. So, you know, convention of the shouters, which is what it's all about, it's just people screeching at each other. So, maybe one could do something like that.</s>AMANPOUR: I want to go back to your earliest writing partner and great friend, Terry Jones, who you met at Oxford. And you were in this amazing bubble from then until the end of his life. And he died not so long ago, and you gave some very emotional, heartfelt interviews. Just talk to me a little bit about what he meant to you as a friend, as a colleague, as a collaborator, and then towards the end of his life, as he started to lose -- he had dementia.</s>PALIN: Yes. Yes. Well, Terry was just a very close friend from Oxford. And he was someone who made me laugh, but made me think at the same time. He had very strong views about the world. If I was writing a film or something, he would say, oh, yes, yes, well, I think we should perhaps do this. And very, very good judgment, very, very good at directing comedy. I mean, "Life of Brian" was brilliantly directed. And then, suddenly, for Terry to go -- to lose the ability to sort of think things through, a man who lived by words, who lived by ideas, who lived by thoughts and arguments, and debate, to be deprived of speech, it's just a pretty, pretty awful thing. But we remained chumps to the end. And it was one of those things. I would go around, and, sometimes, I would think, does he recognize me? Does he not recognize me? And I think there was always there a glimmer of the 30 or 40 years we have known each other and what we have meant to each other. So, yes.</s>AMANPOUR: And again, you all combined have meant so much to the world. I mean, you just have. And I just wondered, when you -- because I believe "Monty Python" first aired on PBS in the United States.</s>PALIN: Yes, absolutely.</s>AMANPOUR: Where this interview is also being aired.</s>PALIN: Yes. Thank God for</s>PBS. AMANPOUR: What did you think? I mean, A, how did they get it, and not the other broadcast networks? How did that happen? And how did -- Americans are not known for their sense of irony or...</s>PALIN: No, that's very ironic, the whole situation. Most of the big American companies passed on it. I mean, ABC. People really didn't really want the shows as they were played in England. They would take bits of them and all that. A man from Dallas PBS station was in New York, looking at BBC product. That was a terrific storm. He was late leaving the airport. He said, what else have you got? What's this "Circus" thing? So they showed him "The Flying Circus." He took it back to Dallas, because he thought it was quite funny, just one show, and showed it to the PBS team at Dallas. And they loved it. They said, this is really odd and strange. Have you got anymore? So, they rang the BBC, in New York, and, oh, well, we will look at the cupboard. Have to go downstairs. Yes, we have got some more. How many? Oh, we have got 44 more. And he just bought the lot. And they ran them over one weekend, a sort of "Python" telethon in Dallas. They just completely went ballistic on it. And the -- this was picked up by other PBS stations. And that's how it caught on. And it was students and it was the younger audience that absolutely loved it. They didn't understand it, particularly, but it was so different to anything else that was on American television.</s>AMANPOUR: Yes.</s>PALIN: And there were no ads or anything like that. And it was sending up authority. It was sending up everything. And they just said, well, whatever it is, we love this, because there's nothing else like it.</s>AMANPOUR: Recently, you were knighted.</s>PALIN: Yes.</s>AMANPOUR: You're Sir Michael Palin. I giggled a bit when I read the reaction of one of your colleagues. Do you know what I'm saying?</s>PALIN: A taller member, probably.</s>AMANPOUR: Yes.</s>PALIN: Yes, that's right, yes.</s>AMANPOUR: The one who said, great to see you have been knitted.</s>PALIN: Oh, no, that was Terry Gilliam.</s>AMANPOUR: Oh, there you go.</s>PALIN: Yes. Terry Gilliam said, great to see you be knitted, yes.</s>AMANPOUR: Just in time for the cold weather.</s>PALIN: That's right. That was Terry Gilliam.</s>AMANPOUR: It's good.</s>PALIN: Yes.</s>AMANPOUR: And then the taller fellow, the John Cleese fellow, he said the following about you: "It shows that really hard work can overcome complete mediocrity. And I think it's a tribute. It's an encouragement to all not particularly talented and rather mediocre people to see what can be achieved by sheer hard work and good luck."</s>PALIN: Yes. No, well, he embodies that so well.</s>AMANPOUR: Are you all great friends?</s>PALIN: We're pretty good friends, basically, the usual sort of slight problems, management, what we decide to do as a group and all that. But, basically, we're very good friends. We still make each other laugh, which is the main thing. And we just greatly miss Graham and Terry. We really do. I mean, they were such -- "Python" was a sort of -- it was the six of us, as writers and performers. And as a little group, we held each other together. Whoever else was employing us, we knew what we wanted to do. And it taught me a lot about being -- about artistic independence and creative independence. We were able to sort of get through things that people would say, you can't do that, and we would say, well, let's have a go. And we did it. And it worked most times.</s>AMANPOUR: Possibly because nobody knew what you were talking about, those in authority.</s>PALIN: Well, yes.</s>AMANPOUR: They didn't know they were being made fun of, maybe.</s>PALIN: No, no, I think -- no, that's true about satire. People always think it's the other person. Oh, it's not me. It's him.</s>AMANPOUR: You're 77.</s>PALIN: Yes.</s>AMANPOUR: Is there anything on the Michael Palin bucket list? When you look down the road, what do you still want to do?</s>PALIN: I want to keep learning. And I want to keep responsive to the world. I just -- there's so much going on. There are so many amazing things happening. I know, at the moment, we're in deep trouble with coronavirus and all that. But I know we will get through that. And, as a result of coronavirus, I think we will see some very ingenious and inventive work coming out. And I'm interested to see what it is. It's not going to be normal. We're not going through normal times. So I want to sort of just be able to take it all in. That's really it. And I have always been slightly instinctive. I have never had a big game plan. And things have come up out of the blue, and I hope they will continue to do so.</s>AMANPOUR: Well, it's very nice to see through your eyes the light at the end of the tunnel.</s>PALIN: Well, thank you, yes.</s>AMANPOUR: Thank you very much for being with us.</s>PALIN: Thanks.</s>AMANPOUR: Michael Palin on how PBS launched "Monty Python" across the United States and across the world. Our next guest is the former evangelical pastor Joel Hunter. He served as President Barack Obama's spiritual adviser for eight years, but then he voted for Donald Trump back in 2016. Well, this time around, he's backing Vice President Joe Biden. Remember, of course, Christians form Trump's base, but Hunter has formed a group called Pro-Life Evangelicals For Biden. Here he is speaking to our Michel Martin about what made him change.</s>MICHEL MARTIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pastor Joel Hunter, thank you so much for speaking with us.</s>JOEL HUNTER, PRO-LIFE EVANGELICALS FOR BIDEN: I'm honored. Glad to be on with you.</s>MARTIN: You voted for Trump in 2016. But you're part of a group called Pro-Life Evangelicals For Biden. Why did you decide to join this group to help organize this group?</s>HUNTER: Well, first of all, we want to make sure that the pro-life agenda is expanded beyond birth. We're no less anti-abortion, but we know that the people who die from the pandemic, the people who die from a lack of access to health care, people who die from poverty and the opioid crisis and suicide and racism and the impacts of climate change, on and on and on, are just as important to God as those people who are still in the womb. And so one of the things that we want to make sure of is that we are pro- life comprehensively. And we even believe that, if you pay attention to these other areas, it will reduce the choice for abortion. So it will ultimately reduce the number of abortions. We want to change the culture. We don't want to just change policy.</s>MARTIN: It's one thing to say you're going to vote for someone in the privacy of voting booths. It's quite another to sort of go forward and put a group together to publicly embrace a candidate. You are lending your personal stature to this enterprise.</s>HUNTER: Right.</s>MARTIN: So, why this? I mean, this, I think, is the first time you have done this. Why was this so important to you to do?</s>HUNTER: I am now an outcast to many people who I was close to. And I have had to pay a very high price to do this. I knew what was coming. When it -- when the article in "The Washington Post" came out about this movement, and then, the very next day, a large article with my picture came out in "The Orlando Sentinel," immediately, invitations to preach were withdrawn. I was taken off the air my daily devotions one of the -- on the Christian radio station was taken off the air. Now, the curious thing about this is, these are my friends, but they were so afraid of losing income and so afraid of losing their constituency, that they just had to do that. So, I totally get that. But the point -- there came a time in my life where I projected four more years of President Trump and that kind of division and the kind of hostility and the kind of the tone of personal attack, and what that would do to our capability of making policies that would actually solve the larger problems. I know Joe Biden. I worked with him a couple of times in the White House. He's a good man. And he's wired to put together those coalitions. Obama was a master of this, because he wanted people in the room who thought differently than he does. And he had the intellectual capability of surveying the room, of taking all that information, and then in making a decision. So, anyhow, it wasn't just, I can't do any more Trump. It is, I do think that Vice President Biden has the potential to put together coalitions from traditionally opposing organizations or people or parties or whatever you want to say, in order to get done what you can't get done with an up-or- down vote with one party.</s>MARTIN: Was there a tipping point for you with President Trump that resolved it for you that you -- at the very least, you couldn't support him again, you couldn't vote for him again?</s>HUNTER: Yes, this started very early, when he started categorizing immigrants as rapists and murderers and...</s>MARTIN: But that was the first day. Sir, that was the first day.</s>HUNTER: I know.</s>MARTIN: That was the very first day he announced his candidacy, but you voted for him anyway.</s>HUNTER: Well, I voted for him thinking that, OK, this is how he's running. He's appealing to this certain base. He's appealing to people. I knew what that was. Then I realized there was a tone being sent down from the leader of our country into all of our country is that this is how we're going to live. For people who disagree with us, we are going to count them as enemies. Our rhetoric is becoming -- going to become weaponized. It's not just a matter of disagreeing with respect. It's now a weapon. There are winners and losers, and we're going to become the winners. And opposite of the Gospel, it is me first, our country first, America first. Nobody else counts as much as we do. And that's the opposite of the message of Jesus, which says, love your neighbor as you love yourself. They are as important as you are. And so you spend your life considering not only what's good for you, but what's good for them. So, that was kind of my progression.</s>MARTIN: President Trump has said he would deliver conservative judges. With the assistance of Republican Senate, he has done so. He has delivered on extremely conservative nominees to the -- certainly to the Supreme Court. As you and I are speaking now, his third nominee, unexpectedly, is now being sort of considered. He's delivered when it comes to that. And I think some would say, like the same way they said of former President Clinton, if you think he's a disturbing -- if you don't like him as a human being, don't hang out with him, but if these are the things that you want, that's what you get.</s>HUNTER: Right.</s>MARTIN: And why isn't that enough?</s>HUNTER: Well, this -- that's the point. I think that he has delivered. I do not disagree with his present nominee for the Supreme Court. I think she's a great jurist and a wonderful human being. But the point is that, OK, he's delivered on that. He's delivered on some of the policies. I'm not against all of his policies. But there reaches a point of diminishing returns, when you say, who he is as a person or how he approaches the political sphere, in ways that are divisive and accusatory and will continue to divide our country -- the Scripture says, as Lincoln quoted, a house divided cannot stand.</s>MARTIN: It was surprising to some people that so many evangelical, prominent evangelical leaders fell so hard for President Trump, because he just seemed to be antithetical to the values that these leaders say they hold. Why is that, in your view?</s>HUNTER: There are people who are willing to overlook personal behavior, personal rhetoric that doesn't match the Gospel, doesn't match what Jesus taught us, for the sake of policy support. And so that's what a lot of the evangelicals were doing. He promised pro- life legislation. He promised a lot of conservative -- he promised to pay attention to religious issues and religious protection. And, in 2016, there was some fear that the radical left were -- would expunge the public square of religion and so on and so forth. So it's kind of like the mafia deal, where you pay for protection. And that's what they saw in President Trump. And, to be honest, that's kind of what he's delivered. He's delivered justices. He's delivered certain legislation toward protecting religious liberty, and so on and so forth. So, they got what they voted for. But, unfortunately, in my view, they got more than they voted for. I voted for him, because I didn't think that Senator Clinton -- or Secretary Clinton was really going to include faith issues in her administration. And he had promised -- and, of course, I didn't know who he was. So I said, well, we will take a chance. So I think that there were just a lot of folks who voted for him the first time who will not vote for him the second time, although he still has a vast majority of evangelicals.</s>MARTIN: You're not alone. I mean, there are others in your group, including one of the, as I understand, a granddaughter of Billy Graham, as part of the group, who said similar things. She said that being pro-life is about more than being against abortion. It's about a respect for life in all -- throughout life.</s>HUNTER: We have actually had 5,000 people, over 5,000 people, sign on to that statement. Now, and the people that organized it were -- we have been friends for quite a while. We have had positions of national leadership in the evangelical world. But, yes, as we say, we want to emphasize the whole counsel of God. We don't want to just pick out one issue, and back everything up with Scripture, and make that the litmus test for everything we do. We want -- the Bible says a whole lot about poverty, about helping the alien, about justice issues, and so on and so forth. And we want a comprehensive biblical approach to what we do in the public square.</s>MARTIN: I'm intrigued by some of the reaction that you have gotten from people who you consider to be your friends, I mean, like dropping you from your devotionals and your radio program and all these other things. How do you understand that? I mean, it just seems like you didn't renounce your faith. I mean, you didn't sort of pick your head up and say, you know what, all the things I have preached all these 30 years, I changed my mind.</s>HUNTER: Right.</s>MARTIN: You didn't say that. You said, I don't support this particular candidate. So what does that say?</s>HUNTER: Well...</s>MARTIN: And I support someone else. What do you think that means?</s>HUNTER: I totally sympathize with these people. I was the leader of a congregation, a pastor of a congregation for almost 50 years. And so I know what it is to not want to divide the congregation. I know what it is to be protective. I talked with a young pastor that has a huge congregation in our area. And he's -- and he was one of the ones that said, hey, let's kind of withhold - - let's kind of do your preaching gig in our church until after the elections, and I will have you on probably in 2021. But he said -- he said, Joel, I preached two weeks on Black Lives Matter, and I lost 20 percent of our of our contributions and 15 percent of my congregation. And so these are folks that are trying to protect their institutions, their assembled congregation. And so I totally get that. I sympathize with them. And they're doing the best they can. But they're also very uncomfortable with their position, because they know they should be speaking out on justice issues. They know, when it comes to matters of white supremacy, with Robert Jones' book "The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity," they know these are things that are important to portray the Gospel as it really is. But they're afraid, especially of those voices that -- I get mail every day, much of it unsigned, and I will never read anonymous letters. But they are afraid of the attackers. And there are so many more attackers these days.</s>MARTIN: Forgive me, Pastor. Doesn't that suggest that there is a sort of a core of either racism or intolerance in this community that is not being addressed, that is, in fact, being enabled?</s>HUNTER: Absolutely.</s>MARTIN: What does that say?</s>HUNTER: Absolutely. Absolutely, it does. And I think -- and, full disclosure, right before I transitioned out of the -- my pastorate, I had had forums on racism, on gun violence, on the inequities of the criminal justice system. And I had 800 LGBTQ folks come in and talk about how they'd been hurt from the church. And the leadership came to me said, you know, you're -- I was 69 at the time. Maybe you should think about transitioning to the next -- so, that's what they risk is. It's a Faustian bargain to sell your soul for a little temporary power. But it's very easy. And I can tell you, as a pastor, it's very easy to justify, well, I don't want to divide the congregation. And what about all of the staff? Do I put their jobs in danger? So, it's very difficult. I don't want to undersell the difficulty in being prophetic, properly prophetic, in the church. But I got to tell you, Michel, if the church doesn't lead in the moral path forward, as far as justice, as far as equality, as far as being comprehensively pro-life, then we -- it's just not going to get done, because the people -- people see us as the conscience. And if the conscience doesn't speak up, we will just do whatever's convenient and whatever is good for our group.</s>MARTIN: Before we let you go, I was wondering, in a way, if there's a part of you that feels that this current moment, the Trump administration, is in a way bad for faith...</s>HUNTER: Sure.</s>MARTIN: ... because it's alienating to other people who might otherwise be attracted, who then look at that and say, these people have nothing for me, and are not willing to speak truth to power, as long as they benefit? I just wonder if there's any way you might think that might be so.</s>HUNTER: Absolutely, it's true, and especially for the younger generations that have no automatic loyalty to institutional religion. And they look at that, and they say, wait a minute. This is so different from how I thought Jesus was. This is so different from my -- from what I hear, the love, God is love, and there's no condemnation in Christ. And this is so different to what I hear. And so there is a very -- I know the draw of power and the draw of withholding your voice, so that you can be near power. I was President Obama's spiritual adviser for eight years, or one of them, wrote devotions every week. And I know the temptations I had of not speaking forward in areas where I disagreed with him. He could tell you that I did speak -- I did do that, though. But I know how easy it is not to say what you need to say in order to be -- have a photo-op in the Oval Office. It is just very, very tempting.</s>MARTIN: How do you feel now that you have put yourself out there? How do you feel?</s>HUNTER: I feel great. I did the right thing. And so I sleep very well at night. And I believe that it will give some other people permission to say, I need to think broader than just being anti-abortion. I can be anti-abortion, I can try to protect children in the womb, but maybe I can help an expectant mother choose not to get an abortion because she's had the support and the resources to carry her baby to term. Maybe there are other ways we can think and accomplish our goals. So, I can live with myself. And I think I'm doing the right thing.</s>MARTIN: Pastor Joel Hunter, thank you so much for talking with us today.</s>HUNTER: Thank you.</s>AMANPOUR: Democracy is at stake. So is the concept of tolerance. Finally, tonight, we cast our minds back to a time when one country finally did the right thing. Exactly 30 years ago, South Africa effectively abolished apartheid, the white supremacist minority rule that segregated everything, like in the Jim Crow South. The process began earlier that year, when, after decades of pressure by the black majority at home and their allies around the world, South Africa's President F.W. de Klerk made this stunning declaration to Parliament:</s>F.W. DE KLERK, FORMER SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT: The government has taken a firm decision to release Mr. Mandela unconditionally.</s>AMANPOUR: And with that, after nearly 28 years in prison, Nelson Mandela walked free. And in his first speech, he quoted the very words that he had spoken during the trial that had sentenced him to prison decades earlier, saying democracy was something that he was willing to give his life for.</s>NELSON MANDELA, FORMER SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT: If need be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die.</s>AMANPOUR: And when Mandela was elected president four years later, in a remarkable spirit of reconciliation, not revenge, he named de Klerk as deputy president. They were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize together 27 years ago today. Now, even today, of course, around the world, the clamor for democracy and justice rings loud. So, we end with these images from Thailand demanding just that. That's it for now. Thanks for watching, and goodbye from London. END

COVID-19 Spike in U.K. Exposes Political Divisions; Melinda Gates: Disinformation Costs Lives.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are certainly seeing a very concerning situation across Europe.</s>BECKY ANDERSON, CNNI HOST (voice-over): This hour, out of control: 80 percent of Europe slammed by rising COVID cases. New restrictions, disrupting millions of lives, once again. Plus:</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the numbers are vastly inflated.</s>ANDERSON (voice-over): Trump voters shrug off the virus as cases surge in the U.S. Why there will be no debate about that issue tonight. Then Thailand announces that emergency decree while pro democracy protests. And Portugal's newest cheerleader, Ronaldo, supports his teammates from COVID isolation.</s>ANDERSON: It is 3:00 pm in Liverpool. It's 4:00 pm In Bordeaux and 6:00 pm here in Abu Dhabi. I'm Becky Anderson. Hello and welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD. We connect you to the place on Earth this hour most badly affected by COVID-19, where fully 80 percent of the continent of Europe now seeing a growing number of people getting infected and sick. Have a look here. This map showing the red are the cases up drastically over pretty much all of Europe, with just a few countries trending steady and almost nowhere in the green, as it were, going downwards. With each passing day, report after report crosses my desk from multiple countries all reporting their highest daily numbers since this pandemic began. America still has more cases in total than Europe. But look at the blue line there, Europe adding far more cases. And a similar number of people live in both. Still the U.S. ticking up to nearly 60,000 cases on Wednesday alone, that's really bad news, it's the highest daily total there in more than two months. And it's not just new cases that we are tracking. Sadly, more people died, for example, in Russia from COVID in the last -- in the latest numbers than at any other point. And this list just goes on and on. What are we to do? It's hard to work it out, quite frankly. Let me get you back to Europe. You will remember the lockdowns a few months back. They worked. Since then, cases had been trickling, then climbing, then soaring, unfortunately, back upwards. The response, well, not nearly as robust as it was at the beginning of all of this. They have been bringing in a series of half-measures, countries in Europe walking the fine line between not enough and too much. Clearly mostly not enough, given these cases. The World Health Organization's regional director for Europe had this to say in response.</s>HANS KLUGE, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: And some countries, of course, which are at the top epidemiologically, have to go much more further than the other ones. But we should not hold back. So the key message here to the governments is do not hold back with relatively smaller actions in order to avoid the same very painful and damaging actions we saw in the first big round.</s>ANDERSON: I will be talking to Hans Kluge on Friday's program about this. But even the WHO knows this is a tricky dilemma. Have a listen to what the chief scientist told me this time yesterday on CONNECT THE WORLD.</s>DR. SOUMYA SWAMINATHAN, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: It's a question that I think all governments are really struggling with. And it shouldn't be health versus the economy, you know. We have to maintain health, we have to keep COVID under check and we still need to let people earn a living and go about their normal lives.</s>ANDERSON: We need to lock down, they argue. But wait, that's not the answer because we also need to get out and make a living. That is the dilemma. Melissa Bell is in Bordeaux in France, Phil Black is in London. Phil, London enforcing what are known as tier 2 measures, which means what in practical terms? And how will these restrictions affect people's daily lives?</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, it's not a lockdown but it is yet another significant increase, an increased restriction on people's personal lives, on the quality of their lives, on their ability to maintain and draw support from close personal relationships, friends and families.</s>BLACK: As of Saturday morning people will not be able to mix inside with people they don't live with. So nowhere that's indoors, not in homes, not in bars, restaurants, cafes. They can, for now, still mix outdoors, you can still socialize there in groups of up to six. But the days are getting shorter and colder here so that's going to become a more difficult option to embrace for many as winter deepens. So this is really affecting people's personal lives acutely while, in theory, businesses stay open as best they can under all the usual COVID-secure conditions. Why now? The mayor says it's pretty clear, the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, that the virus is spreading rapidly in all parts of the capital. All the key indicators are moving in the wrong way. The number of cases, the number of hospital admissions, those being moved into intensive care and, of course, the number of deaths as well. For that reason, he says, there was simply no choice but to do this. He is pushing for a tougher national measure, a short national lockdown, what they're calling a potential circuit breaker, to buy some time and get organized. But at the moment the national government isn't showing any interest in that. I should say it is not just London that is moving into these new tougher restrictions on personal lives. As of the weekend, it's estimated that somewhere close to half the population of England will be affected by this, tens of millions of people, Becky.</s>ANDERSON: How do people feel about it?</s>BLACK: I think this time around it is pretty clear that, on one hand, you've got people who still believe that it's everyone's responsibility to do what they can, to do the right thing, to ensure that they are not responsible for spreading this virus. On the other hand, there is, as we've been talking about for some time now, something close to lockdown fatigue; even though we are not going to be locked down, people are going to be restricted from seeing the people they care about most. And that is a difficult thing to stomach after so many months of restrictions on their lives already, Becky.</s>ANDERSON: Thank you, Phil. Let's get to France and to Bordeaux where Melissa is standing by. What is going on in France? What's the impact on people's lives and what is the feeling about whether these restrictions can put a lid on this thing, Melissa?</s>MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the time being, really difficult to say. France has seen record rises over the course of the last week to 10 days, several records broken. The figures just kept getting higher and higher. We listened to the French president yesterday on French television, explaining that this second wave was even more dangerous than had been the first because he explained it was widespread over the entire territory. Back in March, when France locked down, the east had been particularly heart hit but it hadn't been all over the country as it is now. The second problem, saying Emmanuel Macron, is this time there are no reserve beds. That's how serious the situation is. These measures, however unpopular, have to be brought in because it's about protecting now fragile health care systems under the strain of what's happening with the increasing number of cases. You have an increasing number of people coming into ICU. Have a listen to what the French president who to say yesterday on the question of curfews. That is the plan at the moment to try to see if those can bring the numbers back under control.</s>EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): If we stick to this curfew for six weeks, if we take collective responsibility for reducing our contacts, we think that we will be able to progressively reopen at that stage.</s>BELL: So what will it mean, Becky? Essentially the greater Paris region, eight other French cities, will have a curfew from 9:00 pm to 1 am. Things will have to close -- restaurants, bars, pubs, cinemas -- and people are going to be expected to be at home and they will be fined if they are found out.</s>ANDERSON: Melissa in Bordeaux, Phil was in London. To both of you, thank you. Just a reflection, viewers, of the dilemma that these governments are facing. As we mentioned, 80 percent of Europe is once again seeing an increase in COVID cases, governments oscillating between varying degrees of commitment over just how far restrictions should go. But it's a big number, isn't it, 80 percent. Take it down to the scale of one city in England, that being Liverpool, which is among the worst affected in Britain. It is now dealing with the highest level of restrictions.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just think that the lockdown shouldn't have happened like it did in March everywhere, shut down.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it is the right thing, it is sensible to try to crush it.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you look at the lockdown that's been brought, the mini lockdown, it's not as severe as it could have been but it's probably not as severe as it should have been two weeks ago.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the moment it seems to be just a bit of a scattered approach to what is open and what's not open. And it is quite frustrating.</s>ANDERSON: Some of the voices from Liverpool. I want to get to one family. I want to bring in Geoff Broadhead and his wife, Pam. They live in Liverpool for the last 32 years, Jeff is retired, Pam works for the NHS. I know that area well, it's a wonderful part of the world. Thank you both for joining us. Jeff, let me start with you. Tier 3 restrictions now in play. How has and will that impact your daily life?</s>GEOFF BROADHEAD, LIVERPOOL RESIDENT: Well, tier 3 is really new here but it's quite restrictive. In practical terms, we won't be able to meet our family, the immediate family that don't live with us, we won't be able to meet our friends in pubs and restaurants. So it seems quite crazy that we can go to pubs and restaurants but we can't see how family there. So it's quite -- it's quite intimidating in terms of the impact it has on your family life and your social life.</s>ANDERSON: Do you support these restrictions, though?</s>G. BROADHEAD: Sorry?</s>ANDERSON: Do you support these restrictions?</s>G. BROADHEAD: Well, I think it's very strange, you know, if Liverpool is now in tier 3, which is the highest level, it's actually still quite open. The fact that you can still go to a pub or a bar or a restaurant, it makes you wonder what we're going to go to beyond that. I certainly would have favored that short-circuit, that quick circuit breaker, that says, let's just shut everything down for two or three weeks and bring transmission levels down. At least we would go back to a bit more of a normality after that point.</s>ANDERSON: So much of this is about ensuring that the health service can cope with this rise in COVID cases. Pam, you work for the NHS -- which for those who don't know, the U.K. is the National Health Service. What's the reality on the front line, Pam?</s>PAM BROADHEAD, LIVERPOOL RESIDENT: I think it's very challenging. I think that we -- when we went into lockdown, there was lots of rule changes on a daily basis, almost on an hourly basis, that we all got on. And, you know, we supported it and we did what was right. I think we all firmly believed things were getting better, that actually to see the cases now increasing again and to not be consistent in terms of that lockdown across the whole country, I think that is proving very difficult. It's very long days that everybody is working and you do wonder how long we can all carry on working at such long hours, week after week after week, to keep everybody safe.</s>G. BROADHEAD: I think there's another really serious point that I would make as well, which is what has not been done because of COVID. There is an awful lot of operations that have been deferred. There's lots of serious illnesses like cancer that people just can't get their operations on. And COVID is just taking away all of that capacity so that those things aren't being done. That will be a long-term effect for us overall.</s>ANDERSON: You make a very, very good point. The mayor of Liverpool told me that he was disappointed with some of Liverpool's residents. Have a listen to this.</s>JOE ANDERSON, LIVERPOOL MAYOR: Disappointed about people in the city of Liverpool that the residents that may have been ignored in my messages and other people's messages. You're right, it is about personal responsibility. It is about, you know, taking responsibility for your actions because, if you care about your community, care about your family, care about your city, then you should help us try to bring this virus under control.</s>ANDERSON: And the mayor's response, Pam, was to a question that I put to him about the images of youngsters out and about, partying, raving, you know, a sense of, you know, a lack of responsibility by some of those in Liverpool, which is sort of making things perhaps so much worse for everybody else. When you hear his words, how does that make you feel?</s>P. BROADHEAD: I think what Joe Anderson was saying is what the majority, 99.99 percent of people that live in the Liverpool city region, are thinking. You know, that was a very small minority of people who did that, that they will actually have probably quite a large effect on the whole of the Liverpool city region and people that live here.</s>P. BROADHEAD: And I think that maybe they haven't been affected quite as much as some other people have, you know. Fortunately, we don't up here have relatives, who live in care homes. But you can't go and see those relatives in their care homes. Both my parents ended their lives in a care home. And can you imagine not going to see those loved ones day in, day out? And I think the people who maybe aren't as strict as perhaps we are, the people that haven't really been affected like that, and I think what hasn't been shown to them is that effect. And I have to say that I also think that some of those people who were out on those streets may well be -- and I don't know this for a fact -- may well have been students who actually aren't from the Liverpool city region, who have come to university thinking they were going to be taught and everything like that and have been locked down. I mean, that must be horrendous, they're 18-year-old people, young adults, first time away from home in a strange city.</s>ANDERSON: Sure. Geoff, I know that your son is down in London; his wedding, as I understand it, has been postponed due to COVID. Just finally, clearly these restrictions now affecting your family and your kids as well.</s>G. BROADHEAD: Yes, absolutely. You know, the wedding was planned for May next year and that's how long we are looking ahead now even for May next year. We have had to think of seriously, where will we be after this by then. And he has deferred the wedding from 12 months from that point onwards. So these are real impacts and real difficult decisions for people to have to make. It's not just about the fact that you can't go to the restaurant or to -- to the -- you know, to the cinema or whatever. It may be but you can't have your wedding or you can't attend a funeral, you can't have funerals and big numbers of people. These are really difficult and emotional decisions. It's getting really quite tough for a lot of people.</s>ANDERSON: And with that, we will leave it there but we do very much appreciate your time. We do hope that things improve. We are reporting on a story that is, sadly, a blight across Europe once again, at present, and if it makes you feel any better, you are not on your own as it were. But we know times are tough. Thank you both very much indeed.</s>G. BROADHEAD: Thank you.</s>ANDERSON: It's so important that we hear from, you know, the man and woman on the street as it were. We put America into the global context for you at the start of the show. And I want to go through what is going on there in more detail for you now. It has more cases in total than Europe but in the States you're also seeing a surge in cases just a fortnight out from what is America's election. With nearly 60,000 people diagnosed with COVID-19 just yesterday alone, in all, 35 states, recording more cases this week than last, only three states are showing green on our map. American president Donald Trump, though, still out and about on the campaign trail and it seems his supporters are heeding his advice, not to let the virus control their lives.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's all kinds of other viruses out there that could jeopardize your health as well. So you can't stop living.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I'm going to get sick and die, I guess it's my turn. But I trust God and I'm not scared.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I care about people, I don't want to give it to them if there's a chance you might be carrying it around. Myself, I'm not worried. I figured the sooner we all get it, the sooner we will be done with it.</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And you don't think that could lead to a lot of people, you know, dying perhaps from the virus?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the numbers are vastly inflated.</s>ANDERSON: Quick fact check for you, these numbers are not inflated. In fact, it is quite the opposite.</s>SWAMINATHAN: What we do know is that about 38 million people have been detected to have been infected or diagnosed to have been infected. But what we also know is that, in actual reality, a far higher number, perhaps up to 10 times that number, could have been infected worldwide.</s>ANDERSON: In fact, the WHO say it could be as high as 800 million. This pandemic is more than numbers. It is touching every aspect of so many people's lives. Let me take you to Arizona and one man who understands the devastating cost of COVID way too well. He and his family have suffered unimaginable loss. CNN's Miguel Marquez has this man's story.</s>RICARDO AGUIRRE, RELATIVE OF COVID-19 VICTIMS: I don't want to cry just because I know God has something better for me.</s>MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ricardo Aguirre.</s>AGUIRRE: AGUIRRE: But it's hard not to just, you know, the --</s>MARQUEZ: The coronavirus killed his father and seven other family members he says. It took his business. It sickened him, his wife who was then four months pregnant and two of his kids.</s>AGUIRRE: I'm feeling very incompetent. A man might want -- not at all. I'm not been able to go back to where it was. I lost my dad. It's very hard. It's hard.</s>MARQUEZ: He doesn't know how they contracted the virus. They wore masks and used sanitizers constantly. It swept through his family in May, his father fought the virus for months.</s>AGUIRRE: My dad unfortunately, you know, he passed away in September 11, in my arms at 3:30 in the morning. It was very hard because we did everything together -- 42 years being by his side.</s>MARQUEZ: His mother is home and still fighting the effects of the virus. Now he spends his days shuttling her to hospital visits. Helping his wife now eight months pregnant dealing with an ever- increasing pile of bills. All this with little income and no health insurance. (on camera): You don't have medical coverage.</s>AGUIRRE: I don't have medical coverage at all. It's just too much.</s>MARQUEZ: Even ObamaCare?</s>AGUIRRE: No.</s>MARQUEZ: You just can't afford anything.</s>AGUIRRE: No, I can't afford it. It's just too much. It's literally another house payment.</s>MARQUEZ (voice-over): Aguirre and his family, built Tacos y Tamales Pueblo he had a food truck, a prep kitchen in downtown Phoenix and a long list of corporate and wedding clients.</s>AGUIRRE: This is what is left of 10 years of hard work.</s>MARQUEZ (on camera): You were living the American dream.</s>AGUIRRE: Yes, I was. Come visit us. As you can see, we are busy.</s>MARQUEZ (voice-over): When coronavirus cases in Arizona jumped and the economy shut down, Aguirre watched all his catering jobs scheduled for the next year evaporate. His food truck was repossessed. He couldn't pay rent on his prep kitchen. (on camera): When did it all come to a halt?</s>AGUIRRE: March 17.</s>MARQUEZ: COVID?</s>AGUIRRE: Yes.</s>MARQUEZ: Overnight.</s>AGUIRRE: Yes, just like that.</s>MARQUEZ (voice-over): Aguirre would like the President to understand just how devastating the disease is for some. (on camera): When he says don't be afraid of, COVID don't let it dominate your life, what do you say to him?</s>AGUIRRE: May God continue to bless you and your family.</s>MARQUEZ: But how does the real-world deal with COVID?</s>AGUIRRE: It's bad. It's bad.</s>MARQUEZ (voice-over): Aguirre is now looking forward to that big day in November, November 7th. The day his first daughter is due to be born.</s>AGUIRRE: We felt that we were ready financially and we were ready, you know, emotionally, you know, to take care of another human being. Now with this going on, I just ask God for strength to get me by another day.</s>MARQUEZ: The real toll of the coronavirus on one American family -- Miguel Marquez, CNN, Phoenix.</s>ANDERSON: Coronavirus numbers headed in the wrong direction here in the Middle East I'm afraid as well. In Iran, that means a new record. The nation reporting more than 4,800 new cases on Wednesday. That is on top of more than half a million infections that Iran already had recorded. Now new travel restrictions are kicking in Thursday for five major cities including Tehran. The number of new cases also skyrocketing in Jordan, more than 2,400 announced on Wednesday, a new high there. The nation was seen as the region's poster child for handling the virus early on in the pandemic. But last week it imposed weekend lockdowns. Ahead on this show, with 19 days left until the presidential election in the United States, Joe Biden brings out the big guns.</s>BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One thing we know is that just basic competence can end up saving lives.</s>B. ANDERSON (voice-over): Barack Obama's scathing rebuke of Donald Trump's time in office -- coming up. Plus live pictures here in Bangkok this hour, where it is after 9:00 pm, and thousands of pro-democracy protesters risking arrest by defying Thailand's new emergency decree.</s>B. ANDERSON (voice-over): We will get you a live report from Bangkok after this.

Thai Government Bans Gatherings of 5+

ANDERSON: Let's get you up to speed on some of the stories that are on our radar right now. And more than 1,000 prisoners are on their way home in what is the largest prisoner exchange between Yemen's warring parties in its conflict history. The Saudi-led military coalition reached the deal with the Houthi rebels they are fighting. Human Rights Watch says Russian President Putin and the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, should be held responsible for war crimes, for bombing civilians in Idlib in Syria. In a new report, the rights group says the indiscriminate bombings may amount to crimes against humanity. Both countries have said only militants were targeted. The president of Kyrgyzstan calling it quits after days of protests in the central Asian nation. He announces his resignation Thursday, saying he wanted to prevent bloodshed. The protesters rejected the results of an parliamentary election in which the president's allies claimed victory.</s>ANDERSON: You are looking at live pictures of scenes of an unprecedented revolt in Thailand. Pitting the people against the king. Right now these protesters defying and flouting the government's emergency decree, which bans gatherings. I just want to step away from these live images for a moment to show you this. Protesters surrounding the motorcade of the queen. Jonathan Miller is there in the Thai capital with a lot more, joining us by phone. What is the very latest where you are, Jonathan?</s>JONATHAN MILLER, JOURNALIST: Well, Becky, there are thousands of mostly young Thais camped a few hundred meters from where I'm standing now, brandishing their "Hunger Games" salutes, calling for the prime minister to go. And this is an astonishing thing to happen today. It started early this morning with a prominent protest leader, the one who made the original unprecedented calls for reform to the monarchy here. She did a Facebook Live, calling for a protest in central Bangkok this afternoon. This is a pretty gutsy thing to do because, overnight, protesters were cleared by riot police from another place. And, you know, two other protest leaders were arrested. At 4:00 am, as you say, there was an emergency decree proclaimed which banned gatherings of more than five people. Now she has subsequently been arrested and we weren't sure whether people would have the guts to go and protest in these circumstances. But, my goodness, we were surprised.</s>MILLER: There were so many people who flooded in by midafternoon, we really couldn't get over it. There was nothing, in fact, that the police could really do. They blocked a huge intersection, blocking two major arteries through the middle of Bangkok. On the way to the protest, we used an overhead walkway to try to gain access, which was then blocked off by the police. Right there I met this woman called Pim (ph), and here is what she had to say.</s>PIM (PH), PROTESTER: I think it's a time that our voices should be heard because, in this country, the voice of the people have never been heard. They might hear us but they never listen.</s>MILLER: So the protesters say that their government might have heard them but isn't listening. The former military leader who launched a coup here six years ago and is still the prime minister, he has shown no effort at all to negotiate or compromise. But it seems these young protesters have basically -- you know, they sense there are cracks in the edifice. And they are no longer scared. So they are coming out in thousands and there's no sign at all that they're prepared to go home.</s>ANDERSON: All right, with that we will leave it there. Jonathan, thank you. We are taking a break. Back after this.

Biden and Trump Hold Dueling Town Halls

OBAMA: And the thing that, over the last four years, it's not as if Trump has been all that active internationally. I mean, the truth is, he doesn't have the patience and the focus to really substantially change a lot of U.S. foreign policy. What he's done is he's systematically tried to decimate our entire foreign policy infrastructure.</s>ANDERSON: Former U.S. president Barack Obama there, coming out swinging at Donald Trump in a podcast interview. His line of attack on foreign policy could be a preview of what we will hear when the former president hits the campaign trail for his former vice president Joe Biden. That is starting next week. We were supposed to see Biden face President Trump head on in a Thursday night debate some hours from now; it could have been quite the rematch, wouldn't it, after the school yard brawl that was debate number one. But this debate was canceled when President Trump rejected the new virtual format. He said he wasn't going to waste his time on a virtual debate. So instead what we're left with is dueling town halls.</s>ANDERSON: Each candidate appearing alone at the same time on competing U.S. networks. Let's bring in John Harwood who is at the White House. Just when you thought you couldn't make it up, it happens, John, debates are usually, of course, a way to swing undecided voters. But now that's been nixed. I get it's probably unlikely that these town halls will do much with the swing voter. What are we expected to hear and who are you expecting to tune in?</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, it's not likely that anything will move many swing voters in the two weeks and a few days before the election because voters are really locked in in the election. The numbers of undecided voters is small; the number of voters who are temporarily, at least, parking their support with third-party candidates is small. But it is the best opportunity that Trump has to try to change the situation that he's in. There are competing town halls at exactly the same time -- Joe Biden from Philadelphia on ABC, Donald Trump with NBC from Miami. I would expect that Donald Trump is going to get more viewers because people are drawn to watching him, for good or bad. That's fine with Joe Biden. He doesn't need to do anything in this debate. He has a 10-point lead nationally; he's got a significant lead in more than enough battleground states to win. It is Donald Trump who has to change the dynamic here. You are clearly not going to see the kind of obstreperous behavior that we saw from Trump in the first debate with Biden, where he was hectoring and ignoring; in a town hall format, you can't do that. So he will be talking to Savannah Guthrie, the NBC anchor, talking to voters. And you are going to see a more sedate Donald Trump. The question is, is there going to be a more effective Donald Trump? Of course, he has had COVID-19; doctors say he's not infectious anymore. But he's been having these super spreader-type campaign events around the country in defiance of public health guidance. He will be on the defensive for that. He will also be on the defensive, Becky, for bad economic news, which is we got 898,000 new unemployment claims last week which has marked the 30th consecutive week of more claims in a single week than we have seen in any week before the pandemic. It's a sign that the pandemic is continuing to take a serious toll on the economy.</s>ANDERSON: John, it clearly won't be enough were Donald Trump just to get higher ratings and a bigger audience tonight, although that will be incredibly important to him, we assume. I just want to, before I let you go, the former president, Barack Obama, on the campaign trail next week, we've been listening to him on "Pod Save America," which is a podcast. I just wonder, given what you just said about voters being pretty much decided at this point, there is not much of a swing vote out there, why is he going out on the campaign trail? Could this backfire?</s>HARWOOD: I don't think it could backfire. The most important thing Barack Obama can do is to inspire Democrats who are for Biden to make sure they go and vote. We saw four years ago that Hillary Clinton suffered from subpar turnout in certain key places, especially among younger African American voters. Barack Obama is popular with young people, popular with African Americans. He's broadly popular around the country, as is Michelle Obama. And what he's going to try to do is supply the motivation and say, as Michelle Obama has said, vote like your life depends on it. And what we've seen from these early voting states, these incredibly long lines, is that Democrats are, in fact, reacting this way to this election. Barack Obama will try to keep that going this last couple of weeks.</s>ANDERSON: John Harwood is in the house. Thank you, sir, out of Washington for you. The coronavirus pandemic front and center of the U.S. presidential race. Some experts say one thing that's making the pandemic worse everywhere is disinformation. Yesterday I spoke with Melinda Gates, who is the co-chair of The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. She and the head of the IMF chatted with me as part of a forum on post-pandemic recovery, question mark, as it were. Talking about a future coronavirus vaccine, Melinda Gates told me bluntly that disinformation can cost lives.</s>MELINDA GATES, THE BILL AND MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION: Disinformation causes deaths. It just does. The truth is, I travel all over the world -- or I could before -- and if you talk to moms and dads who are in line at a health care facility and you say, why are you here? They say it's vaccination day. And I will say, OK, how far did you come? They will often -- a woman will walk 15 kilometers in the heat. They know that vaccine saves their child's life.</s>GATES: So I think, Becky, during these very anxiety-provoking times, because of what's going on, both in terms of our health and our jobs, people are at home. And they're watching this information. And so I think anxiety is up; I think that's to be expected. I think there's a lot of disinformation being spread and shared but what I tell people is talk to your doctor. When this vaccine is available, are you going to believe something on the Internet, that you read from somebody who is in politics or, you know, somebody who doesn't know you? Or are you going to speak to your pediatrician and your doctor and figure out if this is right for you and your family? That's where you go and I believe, once that momentum starts and people see that it is safe, they have to know their body is safe when they put it in, I think they will decide to take it so that their kids can go back to school and they can go back to work.</s>ANDERSON: Speaking of getting back to work, this just in: the president of the European Commission going into self-isolation over potential exposure to COVID-19. Ursula van der Leyen having to leave the ongoing European Council summit, where some of the continent's most powerful leaders are gathering, after a member of her staff tested positive for coronavirus. This as Europe is knee-deep in what is a second wave. Coming up, Ronaldo playing a new position for Team Portugal from his couch at home. More on that in "WORLD SPORT" after this short break.

W.H.O. Official: Follow Restrictions Or Face "Path Of Severity"

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson.</s>BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: And this hour, how did it come to this? In just hours from now, Joe Biden and Donald Trump will not stand in front of one another and articulate and defend their visions for America. Instead, they will take part in competing town halls far, far away from the other, locked in their own political bubbles. As the U.S. careens towards its date with destiny, the November 3rd election deciding who will lead America next, the sheer scale of the pandemic seems more unstoppable than ever but still this message from the American President.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens if you get a big spike in cases in the United States and cases are raising what would you do?</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right, we're not doing anymore lockdowns and we're doing fine. We're not doing any shutdowns. We learned about the disease. Young people, 99.9 percent right? They're in great shape strong immune systems. The younger the better, it's hard to believe.</s>ANDERSON: Well, fact is this virus does affect young people. I know young people who are affected. The numbers tell the tale. And they should scare us all straight. Nearly 1,000 Americans died yesterday. The trends in COVID-19 deaths going the wrong way in almost half of U.S. states the new case count too terrifying. Almost 60,000 cases reported on Wednesday. That is the single most biggest reported day since August. And as the total number of U.S. cases inches closer to 8 million, we are learning more about the first family's encounter with the disease. First Lady Melania Trump disclosed in a White House blog post that her 14- year-old son Barron tested positive for COVID-19. President Trump says his son is fine and he used him as an example of why we really shouldn't worry.</s>TRUMP: Barron Trump, you know he had the Corona 19, the China virus. He had it for such a short period of time. I don't even think he knew he had it. Because they're young and their immune systems are strong and they fight it off 9 9.9 percent. And Barron is beautiful and he's free, free. Get the kids back to school. We have to get the kids back to school.</s>ANDERSON: Well, top infectious disease Dr. Anthony Fauci whatever the reason counter point reminds us that, yes, lots of people are recovering from the virus. But it is ridiculous to think that that means it is harmless.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When people say the president beat it, I'm not worried about it, what's your response?</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: That sort of like saying somebody was speeding in a car at 95 miles per hour and didn't get in an accident so I can go ahead and speed and not get in an accident. We are very, very pleased that the president did so well when he was infected with Coronavirus. But there are also a lot of people who are his age and weight which did not do as well as the president did.</s>ANDERSON: Donald Trump's opponent, Joe Biden has put the president's Coronavirus response front and center in his appeal to voters. One of those swing states is Wisconsin, which is also dealing with a serious resurgence in COVID-19. Adrienne Broaddus is there. Just explain to us, which states in the U.S. are hardest hit and why?</s>ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wisconsin is one of the hot spots. Health officials point to what they call COVID fatigue. At the start of the pandemic, people were staying at home; social distancing and a lot of folks were wearing their masks. But people have become relaxed. The start of the pandemic, folks developed healthy habits. Here in Wisconsin, a first they hope they would never see. The state is reporting more than 1,000 hospitalizations.</s>BROADDDUS: The COVID positivity rate, top 20 percent, ICUs are strained. Every region of the state has at least one hospital and some cases more with current or imminent staff shortages. This morning, the United States is facing a dangerous Coronavirus wave. New cases on the rise in at least 35 states over the past week and the country is averaging more than 50,000 new cases per day for the first time in about two months recording nearly 60,000 new cases on Wednesday, the highest since August.</s>DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: For the short-term, we have to hunker down. We have to get through this season.</s>BROADDUS: With holidays like Thanksgiving weeks away, Dr. Anthony Fauci encouraging Americans to rethink travel plans.</s>DR. FAUCI: That is a risk. You may have to bite the bullet and sacrifice that social gathering unless you're pretty certain that the people that you're dealing with are not infected.</s>BROADDUS: As Iowa reached a positivity rate over 18 percent, President Trump held a rally in Des Moines with few masks in the crowd and no social distancing. Trump is also scheduled to hold an event in Wisconsin Saturday as the state experiences a Coronavirus surge reporting more than 3100 new infections Wednesday a circuit judge temporarily blocking Governor Tony Evers' efforts to restrict gatherings to 25 percent.</s>TONY EVERS, WISCONSIN GOVERNOR: Just because some folks out there want to see full bars and full hospitals doesn't mean we have to listen. The longer it takes for folks to take this virus seriously the longer it will take to get our economies and our communities back.</s>BROADDUS: Fauci says holding large gatherings like the president's campaign rallies are dangerous.</s>DR. FAUCI: When people are close to each other and you don't have everyone virtually wearing a mask that is a risky situation that could very well lead to the kind of spreader events that we have seen in similar settings.</s>BROADDUS: Meanwhile, the virus sidelining the University of Florida Football Program after at least 21 players tested positive. And Alabama Football Coach Nick Saban is now self-isolating at home after a positive COVID test.</s>NICK SABAN, HEAD COACH, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA FOOTBALL: This was routine, everyday. We test our players every day. I get tested every day. I felt fine. I feel fine. I was very surprised meanwhile by this.</s>BROADDUS: Meanwhile, here in the U.S. and abroad, we focused a lot on the numbers. We talk about those numbers. But those numbers actually represent families and their loved ones. Now, some positive news here, we'll end on a high note, Dr. Anthony Fauci saying on yesterday that a safe and effective vaccine could become available by early next spring, April to be exact, of 2021. Almost a year after the pandemic started back to you.</s>ANDERSON: All right Adrienne Broaddus there. Thank you. Well, Europe fast lighting back into COVID chaos. The World Health Organization saying most of the continent is now seeing increased activity. Here's what the W.H.O.'s Technical Lead for COVID-19 told CNN earlier today.</s>MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, W.H.O. TECHNICAL LEAD FOR COVID-19: We are certainly seeing a concerning situation across Europe where we are seeing a resurgence, we are seeing an increase in transmission in large numbers of countries across the region. In fact, about 80 percent of countries across the European regions are seeing a growth right now.</s>ANDERSON: Well, 80 percent, that is a big number, isn't it? So what are they doing about it? Well, there are widening varying degrees of new restrictions. In France more than 20 million people including residents in and around Paris will face a nightly curfew the President there, Emanuel Macron, hoping to reduce daily case counts to a few thousand a day from the current number of more than 20,000. Germany's Chancellor says they have exponential growth in her country and new restrictions will take effect in any area that exceeds government-set case limits. Now the World Health Organization's Europe Director warning that it is essential to take these actions now or face much stricter measures later on.</s>HANS KLUGE, W.H.O. REGIONAL DIRECTOR FOR EUROPE: These measures are meant to keep us all ahead of the curve and to flatten its course. They are there to save lives from COVID without risking lives due to other diseases and due to economic despair. Any further escalation of measures would be the result of failure in implying with the preceding ones.</s>KLUGE: It is therefore up to us to accept them while they are still relatively easy to follow instead of resuming the path of severity.</s>ANDERSON: We learned last hour that the President of the European Commission is going to self-isolation over potential exposure to COVID-19. Ursula von der Leyen having to leave the ongoing European Council Summit where some of the continent's most powerful leaders are gathering after a member of her staff tested positive. Well, governments across the continent facing a dilemma. Lockdown nationwide, try and get a lid on this, or restrict people's movements to varying degrees and trying to contain the virus while still keeping the engines of these economies in gear at least first gear if not full throttle. Scott McLean is in Berlin for you today. Melissa Bell is in Bordeaux. And let me start with you in France. What's been the reaction to these new rules, and how realistic are they in trying to get a lid on what are these, you know, enormous numbers now?</s>MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: I think, Becky, it's exactly as you just said. Governments are desperate to avoid a second lockdown just because the cost of the first still has to be borne by the economy and the idea that an economy at a standstill will allow them to do that. Emanuel Macron speaking to the nation yesterday said that all of those industries affected by these new curfews in France throughout those eight cities plus the greater Paris region, so cafe, so cinemas, restaurants, anyone who is open right now and functioning beyond 9:00 pm, the government is going to step in and pay the wages once again. It is going to offer the very generous package it had offered back during the first wave. So that is going to cost a lot of money. It is going to be a great strain to bear as it is. And going further than that, it is really difficult for governments to contemplate. So they are looking at whether this will work. But look on Saturday it isn't just the curfews that come in Becky but also the sanitary state of emergency and really that could lead to far more restrictions if they are not brought back under control.</s>EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: If we stick to this curfew for six weeks, if we take collective responsibility for reducing our contacts, we think that we'll be able to progressively reopen at that stage.</s>BELL: So there is some hope that the French President is trying to suggest that perhaps these curfews will help. But he was also very clear Becky that this second wave threatens to be worse than the first because the health system is so overwhelmed, because it's been going on for so long and because the entire country is now affected.</s>ANDERSON: That's the position in France. Melissa, thank you. Scott, similar question to you Angela Merkel says these restrictions are necessary to curb the spread of the virus and that she feels, "Uneasy" about what's going on? Are these restrictions going to help?</s>SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. The Chancellor said yesterday that the decisions that Germany makes over the coming days and weeks will ultimately to determine how this country comes out of the pandemic? But the reality Becky is that the second wave of infections at least on paper has now eclipsed the first wave here in Germany. Yesterday the Chancellor met with the premiers of Germany's 16 federal states, to try to present the more unified response to this resurgence of the virus to replace the current patchwork of different restrictions that vary state to state. The meeting stretched well into the evening. But when it was finished, the Chancellor announced that bars and restaurants in virus hot spots right now, including most large cities in this country, will have to close restaurants and bars early. There will also be restrictions on public gatherings or I should say social gatherings both in public and in private spaces. The Chancellor also called out one demographic group in particular, young people. Listen.</s>ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: We must call especially on young people to do without a few parties now in order to have a good life tomorrow or the day after. And a lot is riding on this. We saw the unruly effects on our economy that the spring had and we're a high performing country but our resources are not unlimited. So we must be careful with our resources.</s>MCLEAN: Becky, I also want to draw your attention to a tourism ad actually, a pretty striking one on that right now is circulating on Berlin public transportation. It shows a woman with a fabric mask on her face but one thing is a miss. She's flipping the bird the caption on that ad actually says, up yours to those who don't wear a mask. We obey the Coronavirus rules. As you know well, Becky, Germans they are rules followers. People here don't jaywalk.</s>MCLEAN: Not necessarily because they will get in trouble from the police but because of that societal judgment that they'll attract especially if there are kids around, you don't want to set a bad example. So most are following the rules but there is a minority that is not. So the creators of that ad really wanted to get some attention, to shock people into paying attention and ultimately trying to shame those people not following the rules into actually doing so. Becky?</s>ANDERSON: Yes, fascinating. That's the sorry in Germany. You've heard the story in France. We are connecting your world in England. Thank you, guys. The Northwest part of the country is seeing the highest infection rate. We are waiting to find out whether Manchester could soon see restrictions increase to what is known as very high or tier 3 after the UK's Health Secretary warned action is needed fast. And I quote him, we went there and we found, well, mixed feelings. Have a listen.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a joke. It's actually a joke. I can see the potential in keeping people safe is causing problems at certain times. It has already been done. It's crazy.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Different cities are getting it at different times. If you do a lockdown hopefully we might be able to get rid of it.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody has got any excuses.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then you are not going from one city to another like folks are right now.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are first year students so it is kind affecting our social lives, meeting friends. It's not the best.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it should be a national lockdown. If everyone is doing it makes it easier. Whereas if some cities are picked on, especially the north, why is it fair? I know some areas are higher. But I think if everyone does it and it will help it slow down quicker.</s>ANDERSON: Some thoughts from Manchester. Russia reporting more Coronavirus deaths and cases than ever before in the past 24 hours, 286 people there died from the virus nearly 14,000 were infected total cases in Russia, 1.3 million. Just a day ago we heard President Putin announce a second vaccine had been registered. Russian Health Official says this one, which is called Epivac Corona works very differently from the first vaccine which is Sputnik V. But neither has been tested for safety or efficacy with large scale clinical trials. And the international community has been reacting with heavy skepticism and indeed some criticism. On the other hand, a dominating voice in western infectious disease, America's Dr. Anthony Fauci told CBS that researchers should know by November or December whether some of these vaccine trials have a safe candidate. And he cautions initial quantities will only be a few million doses.</s>DR. FAUCI: That will likely be within the first quarter of 2021 by let's said April of 2021. But that would be predicated on the fact that all of the vaccines that are in clinical trials have proven to be safe and effective.</s>ANDERSON: That's Anthony Fauci there. Still ahead, crowds returning to Islam's holy site for the "Umrah Pilgrimage" but what will that mean for the potential spread of this virus? The Nation's Deputy Health Minister will talk to me about that after this. And we are only 19 days out from the U.S. Presidential Election, with millions of Americans already voting more on that after this.

Saudi Arabia Allows Umrah Pilgrimage To Resume

ANDERSON: You're watching "Connect the World." A large amount of pilgrims will be heading to the Islamic holy sites in Saudi Arabia this weekend that's after the nation partly lifted its restrictions on the "Umrah Pilgrimage" which is conducted at the same site so as the Hajj. This will be the second weekend that pilgrims are allowed to go there but despite numerous health measures in place. It is still an open question whether the pilgrimage could spread the Coronavirus? Well, Saudi Arabia appears to be keeping a lid on the outbreak at this point, reporting about 500 new cases on Wednesday according to Johns Hopkins University. The nation had more than 340,000 infections since the pandemic began. Earlier I interviewed the Saudi Deputy Health Minister Dr. Mohammed Abdulaali and he told me new infections can stay low despite the pilgrimage. Have a listen.</s>DR. MOHAMMED ABDULAALI, SAUDI ARABIA'S DEPUTY HEALTH MINISTER: Because of COVID-19, very important restriction, very important terms and conditions to perform very innovative ways to perform Umrah safely. And we know that we passed this - a few days successfully and also during Hajj season it was very successful performing the Hajj without any restriction or any registry of any COVID-19 condition.</s>ANDERSON: What are the rules at present?</s>DR. ABDULAALI: Ministry of Health and the other agencies are ensuring that pilgrims are going to be selected or visitors those who are going for Umrah are selected with criteria so those with risk, in a risk group are not going to be on the priority list. Second, the control over number and flow of people entering the Haram to perform Umrah, the distances between people there are going to be also health leaders who will participate and accompany each group, not to mention that facial masks will be there throughout the performance.</s>ANDERSON: What is the hospital capacity in Mecca and Medina to accommodate any breakouts should they happen?</s>DR. ABDULAALI: The Kingdom, the capacity of regular beds, isolation beds or intensive care beds increased this including in all of cities. Just to give an example, the intensive care units, which are the most challenging ones, increased almost to the amount of 50 percent increment of availability of ICU beds. And we have never experienced any touch to the maximum or saturation level at any of our cities or regions in the Kingdom since the beginning of this pandemic till now.</s>ANDERSON: Your cases at present are significantly lower after having one of the highest incidents in the region. But you do have some 336,000 cases and almost 5,000 total deaths. So how would you rate the Kingdom's way of coping with this? And how did you manage to finally control the outbreak?</s>DR. ABDULAALI: There are more than 213 centers receiving those who are having any symptoms. And there are 21 drive-troughs and many other plates that receive people symptomatic, asymptomatic regardless of their situation regardless of any nationalities or residency condition. They can come and free of charge - and also free of charge if diagnosed to be positive will be treated. There are three national centers looking at all of these results and doing simulations and doing predictions. So we are not only reacting to this situation but also proactively reacting to it.</s>ANDERSON: We have sadly learned that no country should become complacent. We are seeing a second wave blighting Europe and other places around the world.</s>ANDERSON: What are your plans should a second wave hit Saudi Arabia?</s>DR. ABDULAALI: We deeply analyze all the available data to ensure that we know what's going to be in front of us. We passed the first 70 to 80 days of the pandemic with restrictions, early interventions, very - interventions to ensure that we are suppressing the curve. And we return back to our life but with new normal. And in new normal is pretty important. We opened multiple activities but we have more than 100 protocols to ensure that people are - social with appropriate new behaviors or new norms.</s>ANDERSON: The race for a vaccine is on of course. What is the Kingdom's plan for the acquisition of a vaccine and indeed the distribution of a vaccine within Saudi Arabia?</s>DR. ABDULAALI: We are part of the Act A, the access to COVID-19 tools accelerator. We are part of the founding countries of this accelerator. The Kingdom participated with $500 million to support the international efforts. There are many important agencies, GAVI, the World Bank, the Global Fund, with the W.H.O. are participating. And definitely we will ensure that our community will get the vaccine once it's approved to be active and safe.</s>ANDERSON: Well, Saudi Arabia's Deputy Health Minister speaking to me just earlier this week. Well, let's get you up to speed on some of the other stories that are on our radar right now. And Iran reporting its highest daily death toll since the Coronavirus pandemic began. It says 279 people died from the virus on Wednesday. The nation also saw more than 4,800 new cases also a new high. Iran is the worst affected nation in the Middle East with more than half a million Coronavirus cases. Jordan seeing unprecedented levels of COVID-19 it set a new record of more than 2,400 cases Wednesday, 32 deaths I'm afraid. The country imposed weekend lockdowns now until further notice. Well, Turkey has officially started to include asymptomatic COVID-19 cases in its count for the World Health Organization. That follows criticism that only reporting symptomatic cases hides the real scale of infections there. Turkey has been reporting around 1,500 new daily infections. More than 1,000 prisoners are being released and sent home by Yemen's warring parties. The swap over seen by the international community of the Red Cross is the largest prisoner exchange of the conflict to date. This was the scene at Sanaa Airport as some Houthis prisoners arrived home earlier today. Coming up after this break, swing states are always an important part of the U.S. Presidential Election but especially in 2021. We will get you to one of the key states to hear from voters there up next. Then later, we will speak to a Former Governor of one of those all-important swing states. CNN Senior Commentator these days, John Kasich, from Ohio.

Trump Uses Son Barron As Example Of Easy Time With COVID-19; Trump, Biden Supporters Square Off In Pennsylvania; Millions Of Americans Cast Their Vote In 2020 Election

ANDERSON: Tonight we were supposed to be watching America's second presidential debate but we can't it ain't happening. It has been said U.S. President Donald Trump and the Democratic Nominee Joe Biden will host dueling town halls on competing networks in different places but at the exact same time. You can't watch them together, you will have to pick. The original debate was cancelled we all remember after Mr. Trump refused to participate in what was a new virtual formats. He wouldn't waste his time on it. But millions of Americans the presidential debates will dueling town halls won't sway their votes. Millions have already voted turning in their ballots early to make sure that their vote gets counted. Something Former President Barack Obama says shouldn't be such an issue.</s>BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: If you have one major party perhaps the only major party that I know have in any advanced democracy in the world who explicitly says we're trying to keep fellow citizens from voting and we're trying to make it as part on them as possible. Even the far right in Europe doesn't say that. I think that we should welcome the argument that making it easier for people to vote and eliminating the last vestiges of Jim Crow and poll taxes and all that stuff is not a partisan issue.</s>ANDERSON: Well, voting swing states will be key in this election, especially in Pennsylvania, for example. President Trump's narrow 2016 victory there helped propel him to office and the state is once again center stage in this 2020 race. Joe Biden has made his campaign headquarters in Philadelphia. And Donald Trump is relying on his base support from the last election. CNN's Dana Bash has more.</s>DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: A line forms outside well before opening waiting to enter the Trump House.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're ready for the next group to come in.</s>BASH: A Mecca of sorts for president's supporters in Southwest Pennsylvania where Trump's record turnout four years ago helped deliver his surprise Pennsylvania victory and the White House. Leslie Rossi created the Trump House in 2016 where she pushed disaffected Democrats and never before voter to choose Trump.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We gave people a chance to come to, to believe they could win.</s>BASH: Now Trump supporters show up daily for swag and yard signs and help registering to vote.</s>SCOTT HARRER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: We need Trump in there again. I'm 65. I think it's time to register.</s>BASH: Have you not voted ever?</s>HARRER: No.</s>BASH: Rural Westmoreland County seeing a surge in Republican registrations. They help with that here too.</s>RITA BLAIR, FORMER DDEMOCRAT: I changed my registration from Democrat to Republican.</s>BASH: Why?</s>BLAIR: From what I have seen in last past couple of years, I'm ashamed to say I was a Democrat.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a great honor to have you here.</s>BASH: But Joe Biden isn't giving up here campaigning in Westmoreland County this month. Hillary Clinton didn't come here in the general election.</s>JILL BIDEN, JOE BIDEN'S WIFE: It's not an area Democrats come and campaign very often.</s>BASH: But you're here why?</s>J.BIDEN: I'm here because like I said I - we are not taking any vote for granted.</s>BASH: Gina Cerilli is County Commissioner of Westmoreland P.A. Ten years ago she was Miss. Pennsylvania in Donald Trump's Miss USA Pageant. Now she is an elected Democrat working to blunt Trump's advantage here.</s>GINA CERILLI, WESTMORELAND COUNTY COMMISSIONER: In 2016, Donald Trump was a fresh face. He was new to politics. Everyone was excited. He made big promises. Bring back jobs.</s>CERILLI: But frankly Donald Trump broke those promises.</s>BASH: In small town Pennsylvania, signs matter. Trumps are everywhere, big and bold. But Bidens are out there too.</s>CERILLI: When you see signs like this, it makes the Republicans and the Democrats that voted for Trump in 2016 realize I'm not alone.</s>BASH: A big Biden challenge, his supporters are being COVID careful.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never did we think we would be meeting by Zoom.</s>BASH: Phyllis Friend Head of Democratic Women of Westmoreland County organizes from home. She is clear-eyed about the Democrats' goal here in Trump country.</s>PHYLLIS FRIEND, HEAD OF DEMOCRATIC WOMAN OF WESTMORELAND COUNTY: We can't win Pennsylvania for them, but we can add to the total numbers.</s>BASH: As for Republicans, they never stopped traditional ways of getting out the vote. Knocking on doors, walking in neighborhoods in masks, and using a GOP data-driven app to find and persuade voters.</s>BRITTNEY ROBINSON, RNC STATE DIRECTOR FOR PENNSYLVANIA: Depending on who that voter is we were able to tailor that message at the door and on phone to how we think we need to target that voter and turn them out?</s>BASH: Given the president's struggles in the suburbs, boosting the vote here is critical for Trump.</s>BASH: How important is it for him to get the numbers even higher than four years ago?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do think that we need to increase our voter turnout here for the president to offset some of what may be happening in the southeastern part of Pennsylvania.</s>BASH: Back at the Trump House Leslie Rossi shows us the log of visits from thousands of Trump supporters.</s>BASH: What do you think this year?</s>LOSLIE ROSSI, THE TRUMP HOUSE OWNER AND CREATOR: Oh, my numbers have tripled, tripled. Four years ago my work was really hard here. I had to convince the voters to vote for the candidate. I had to convince them President Trump was the best choice for them. This time I don't have to do any of that. They're all in.</s>BASH: Where they're enough or all in it could determine whether Trump wins Pennsylvania and a second term. Dana Bash CNN, Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania.</s>ANDERSON: I want to bring in one of our Senior Political Commentators and Former Governor of Ohio John Kasich at this point. The 2020 campaign, John, has entered its final stretch. 14 million Americans have already voted and in a new Wall Street Journal/NBC Poll Biden are ahead by 11 points in the national survey, 53-42. Closing the gap won't be easy for Donald Trump. But he does have his supporters. And we have just heard from some of them there in Pennsylvania. Can he drive this home this time?</s>JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, let's talk about the national polls. I don't pay much attention to them because they're distorted. You take a look at the people in California and New York, they are disproportionately for Biden. So I don't pay much attention. I look at the state-by-state polls, and it's still fairly close. I think Biden absolutely has the edge now. But we know this year is - anything can happen. And it usually does. But right now the problem that Donald Trump is having is with independent men, with seniors, and of courses his big problem with suburban women. So I mean it's an uphill battle for Donald Trump. Nothing's impossible. I don't think there are all these secret Trump voters out there, by the way. There might be a few, but I think like there was before. And it is hard to demonize Joe Biden it was pretty easy for them to demonize Hillary Clinton. Those kinds of attacks are not sticking on Biden. So it is definitely uphill but could Trump pull it out? I don't have a crystal ball but unlikely.</s>ANDERSON: Yes. All right, Wisconsin of course played a central role in Donald Trump's victory in 2016. Four years later, the state remains a key battleground. But one where Donald Trump is trailing in the most recent polls and now political exhaustion it seems is weighing on its voters. The Chair of one of the state's Democratic Parties, one of the counties had this to say, John. I was really fascinated by this. "Most people don't want the ugliness of the political world to be front and center in their news every day and in their conversations and in their drive to work. He said a lot of people are just fed up with the constant barrage of whatever the scandal of the day is". It's clear fatigue has played a factor here with this. Do you think it plays a factor in this year's election?</s>KASICH: I do. I think it is like going to a dance club, OK, and you dance and they play the music and you dance faster and faster and faster. At some point you say stop the music. I just want to sit down. And I think that the chaos is getting to people. More and more people are turning off the news because they have heard enough, seen enough, actually don't know what to believe. But I think the chaos does not work in Trump's favor. And I think people want to get back to some sort of normalcy.</s>KASICH: So I do think that is a factor and all of this business about - all of those business about do you wear a mask and not wear a mask, what are redoing, this is not a serious problem, it is really disrupting the seniors in our country. That works again against President Trump.</s>ANDERSON: How important are these early voters? We are just looking at video here from Atlanta, Georgia, for example.</s>KASICH: Well, they are very, very, very important. In fact, what we know with what people are saying now, and I'm always a little skeptical projections. But this one is pretty decent and that is it is almost a 2-1 advantage for the Democrats right now in early voting. Now, that means Election Day is going to be pretty significant as well. The question is I read something this morning that maybe early voting will actually outnumber Election Day voting. We'll have to see. But right now that early voting is definitely favoring Biden. So with all of these things I'm saying, you know, the question is, well, then why is it - why isn't Biden just a slam dunk? Because America is so close you are not - you know it's hard to get any kind of a landslide. It is just very difficult because Americans are so closely divided. So these numbers in some of these states are pretty close. When they're close with a few weeks to go, anything can happen. I have been in many campaigns myself and what you see three weeks out is not necessarily what happens on Election Day.</s>ANDERSON: Yes. And this is a man who absolutely knows. John, viewers at home tonight will be forced to choose which town hall to tune into, whether they tune in at all of course is another question but the president's or Joe Biden's? Which do you believe will get more traction? And, by the way, which will you be tuning into?</s>KASICH: Well, you're going to have Trump supporters watch the Trump town hall and you're going to have Biden supporters watch the Biden town hall. And for those six people who are undecided, they will probably be watching reruns of "Apollo 13". And what am I going to be watching? I have a lot of TV I have to do today. So I probably won't be watching much of it. And I have got my daughters. My one daughter has come from Chicago from college. My other daughter from Ohio State will be around. And tonight, you know, I'm pretty busy. I'll be back on CNN later tonight. So I don't know what I'll see. But probably more with family than I will these town halls.</s>ANDERSON: And good for you. I'm sure you'll be absolutely delighted that the kids are back. We wish them the best. Have some fun with them. Former President Barack Obama has been speaking out about reforms needed for America regardless of who wins this election. Just have a listen.</s>OBAMA: I think a very important question after the election, even if it goes well with Joe Biden, is whether you start seeing the Republican Party restore some sense of norms that we can't breach because he's breached all of them. And they have not said to him this is too far.</s>ANDERSON: John, has American politics lost its decency?</s>KASICH: Yes. I think that it has. I think name-calling now insults are sort of OK. I've watched some of these commercials on television myself and thought holy cow, is that what it takes to win? May be it's not worth it. I think in regard to the Republican Party, the party has lost its ideas. We're not addressing the issue of climate change. We don't have a plan on health care. We don't know what we're going to do about the debt problem. Parties should be parties of ideas not, you know, insults and division and rhetoric. You've got to have your ideas. And the question after this election, if the Republicans lose, is what are they going to look like? Are we going to become a party of ideas or are we going to be just against things. Against things don't work. So the Democrats, they've got to be very worried that they are going to start drifting far left. What I hear from people, Becky, is they don't mind Joe Biden but they are fearful he is not strong enough to hold off the far left, so we become more socialist. And the Democrats ought to be careful that they don't trend far left. Now, if the Republicans don't have ideas and the Democrats starts trending far left, guess what may be another party coming, a third party is possible.</s>ANDERSON: Well that is interesting. And we've lived through these moments when we thought that there was room for a third party and of course they sort of waste away. I'm feeling a deja vu. We were discussing, not you and I particularly.</s>ANDERSON: But we as sort of commentators and reporters discussing the demise of the Republican Party in what we thought would be the wake of a Hillary Clinton win in 2016 around the same time and say what will happen to this Republican Party post this Clinton win four year ago? And of course that wasn't the case. And we continue to have the same discussions now. Final question to you the U.S. still waiting on its stimulus funds worth trillions, I spoke to the Head of the IMF last night who says authority is not inevitable to ease pandemic impact on public finance. This is quite a long sound bite but do please have a listen to what Kristalina Georgieva have to say.</s>KRISTALINA GEORGIEVA, MANAGING DIRECTOR, IMF: What we got to learn very quickly in this pandemic is a very simple straightforward lesson. Countries with strong fundamentals, prudent fiscal policies and good buffers do better. They could with stand the shock, they're more resilient. So the very first thing is during good times, do the right thing. But we are now where we are. We are under the pressure of this pandemic and it is very strange for many people that the Head of the IMF tells governments, please spend, support your doctors, support the vulnerable parts of your economy. Keep the receipts. There has to be accountability for what you spend. But please spend. Why? Because if we stop with the economy putting for weeks in a standstill and then for many more weeks in an unstable place, then we could have catastrophic impact on the world being of people with massive bankruptcies and massive unemployment.</s>ANDERSON: Right, that is the Head of the IMF. I was in discussion with her and Melinda Gates by the way of the Gates Foundation about what happens in this sort of post pandemic recovery? We're not there of course yet. U.S. unemployment weekly jobless claims hit nearly 900,000; today far more than the number that was expected. Is the U.S. prepared, John? Does it have the political will to spend its way out of economic trouble? And to be quite frankly, it seems to me that, that politicians on both sides of the divide are putting politics before the people at this point. Do you agree?</s>KASICH: Yes, I do agree with that. And there is so much pain out there. I just got an email from a young woman who works at a hotel in New York permanently laid off. No job, doesn't know where to go. I mean, it's everywhere. There are so many people that are facing these hard times and there are other people who are not facing those hard times. We have no right to ignore the real challenges and problems of the people being left out there in basically in the ditch. I don't know that they're getting something done about election, but they will pass something, they have to pass something to help the people who are really up against the wall with their children, their spouse. So I think something will happen. I'm not sure it will happen before the election. But doing something is absolutely in my opinion, it is inevitable.</s>ANDERSON: Pretty disgraceful if nothing happens to be quite frank. And John I know you're going to be--</s>KASICH: --because they're not thinking - Becky, they're not thinking about the pain that their neighbor is experiencing. That is the problem with politics today. It is become too much about my party and your party and we begin to forget the people who are the ones that are caught in the middle and there is real pain, real pain for people out there right now and it needs to be relieved.</s>ANDERSON: John, you always make sense. Thank you so much. I know you're going to be on Jimmy Kimmel tonight. But don't forget you're here as well for "Connect the World" for us.</s>KASICH: I will.</s>ANDERSON: Thank you.</s>KASICH: But I'll be on Don Lemon too. So it should be fun.</s>ANDERSON: Oh, my goodness. You were here first. That is the most important spot. Say hello to Jimmy and say hello to Don and come back to us soon. Thank you, sir.</s>KASICH: OK, thank you.</s>ANDERSON: Next up, he may have signed it but now Benjamin Netanyahu is urging the Knesset to approve his deal with the UAE, we'll have a live report about those discussions on normalization up next.

Benjamin Netanyahu Urges Knesset To Approve UAE Agreement.

ANDERSON: I'll get you an update on a story that we broke for you here on "Connect the World" and it is being changing so much right here in this region of the Middle East. The latest, Israel's Knesset has begun discussing the approval of the normalization agreement that would formally and fully normalize relations with the United Arab Emirates where I am and Israel. Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu started the talks by saying and let me quote him here; they say peace is made with enemies. No peace is made with those who have stopped being your enemy. Peace is made with those who want peace and not people who are committed to your destruction. Oren Liebermann joins me now from Jerusalem. This was an incredibly bold move back then some months ago, a huge development when it happened. Just help us understand the latest details as it were in Israel, any opposition?</s>OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There is some opposition. But this will pass with an over whelming majority. Vote in the Knesset still hasn't happened yet. The discussion around the agreement is going for seven hours and counting that's because nearly every member of the Knesset from every party wants their four minutes and in many cases going over four minutes for their input on this. But it is expected to pass again with an over whelming majority. There is an opposition from the joint list of Arab parties they will vote against this, that won't stop it from being passed because the numbers are too small. But one member of joint that essentially opposes it because it is bad for Israelis, bad for Palestinians and bad for the region and that it is part of the deal of the century. Becky regardless of that opposition it will be passed in the Knesset it will then go back to the government and the cabinet for ratification.</s>ANDERSON: That is Oren Liebermann speaking with us. Hundreds of Israelis drove to Jerusalem in a protest convoy Oren against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu demanding further investigation into his indictments, lest we forget. What is the latest on his trial?</s>LIEBERMANN: At this point we're waiting for the heart of the trial to start. The part where the panel of judges will listen to witnesses and listen to testimony but it seems like that may be delayed because of a delay in the process to get to this point all of the preliminary hearings and all of that. How much, that remains to be seen. And it hasn't delayed yet. That is scheduled to start as of January first or the first week of January I should say. There was protest were protesters carried mock submarines up toward Jerusalem. We've seen these sorts of protests before. And the reason their protesting is related to what's called case 3,000, otherwise known as the submarines affair, questions about Israel's purchase of submarines and the approval of advanced submarines going to Egypt. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wasn't charged in that case but some close to him were. The key issue here is that the high court is now hearing an appeal about whether the men, a government commission of inquiry into the submarines affair, that, if it happens, if it is approved by the high court to, could be very damaging for Netanyahu.</s>ANDERSON: Oren Lieberman is in the house, thank you sir. You're watching "Connect the World" live from Abu Dhabi. Up next, Queen Elizabeth II making her first appearance since Britain's lockdown original lockdown that is so we'll show you where she was and what she was doing up next?

Trump, Biden Appear In Dueling Town Halls After Nixed Debate; President Trump On Whether He Was Tested For COVID-19 Before The First Presidential Debate

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: And he wasn't willing or able to come up with a negative COVID test, so the debate was delayed. We thought that was going to be the end of it, hardly. And what we are seeing in real time tonight really may be the most stark contrast I've ever seen between two candidates. So, Trump finagled himself a counterprogramming slot on a competing network to Biden's Town Hall tonight. Biden would be on ABC. He was on NBC. That caused a lot of controversy. But now that I got to see it, I have to tell you, in a way, this may have been better for you. There is no question that seeing two candidates together is better, as a basis of comparison, than having to make choices about which one to watch in isolation. However, if you watched any of the President, it is so, incredibly concentrated, as a version of bad answers, on major points of division. You can't fail to see that this man is trying to divide this country on as many fault lines as he can. So, I'm going to bring in the top-tier political and health brains to size up what was going on in this mother lode of material that we have for you tonight. Now, Trump did not go to State TV to do this, and that was his mistake. He went to NBC, his former "Apprentice" home. And he actually got asked some important questions. And yes, he's good at slapping them to the side. But even being evasive, what he chooses to be evasive on, what he chooses to try to sell you he doesn't know, so he can't answer, is so obvious in its deception and in its malignant intent. For instance, when was his last negative COVID test? Was he tested, the day of the first Presidential debate? "Probably, I don't know, I don't remember," he says. And you want to paint Biden as demented? You can't remember your last negative test? You can't remember if you took a test at the debate? Really? And you're competent to be President? Are you sure you're better from COVID? A million different non-answers, and no, not in the ordinary politician way. There is no savvy. There is no spin. It's just grotesque denial and deception. Again, I don't see any winners in dueling Town Halls tonight. OK? You were supposed to see the candidates together, all right? And, in that way, the voters are the biggest losers, 19 days out, for us to toggle between channels. So, what we did is we watched them both at the same time, to figure out where we can kind of match up answers for you, at least in terms of the material for our panelists, so you'll get that basis of comparison at least, OK? But what's happening tonight, be very clear is a metaphor for where we are. We are on different channels. We are a country that is divided in a way that not only do we believe the other side is wrong, but we are deaf to them, literally tonight, and figuratively almost every day. You literally can't hear the other side. And it's a mistake. Trump's Town Hall is over. Biden's Town Hall is still underway. So, let's get to the highlights, lowlights, of Trump's event. Let's start with Jim Acosta. Jim, the President, I would say - I don't want to give him the credit of adding to the confusion, but he exposed the delusion of ignorance over his contraction of COVID. Set up the circumstance for us, and what stands out to you?</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Chris. I mean I think this was a night where the voters were cheated. They could have been watching a Presidential debate. Instead, they got two different Town Halls, as you just laid out perfectly, a few moments ago. And I think the President was essentially a busted fire hydrant of evasions and falsehoods. On the issue of when his last negative COVID test was, he simply refused to answer the question. It's obviously a question that's pretty simple to answer. But he just didn't want to answer it. And one of the reasons why people want an answer to this question is obviously it's still hanging out there, did the President not take a Coronavirus test on the night of that Presidential debate with Joe Biden? President Trump just would not answer that question. And here's how that played out.</s>SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS HOST: Did you test --</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it was afterwards.</s>GUTHRIE: -- the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: I don't know. I don't even remember. I test all the time.</s>GUTHRIE: So, you say you don't know if you got a test on the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: I had no problem. Again, the doctors do it. I don't ask them. I test all the time. And they --</s>GUTHRIE: Did you take a test, though, on the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: You know if you ask the doctor, they'll give you a perfect answer.</s>GUTHRIE: Yes.</s>TRUMP: But they take a test, and I leave, and I go about my business.</s>GUTHRIE: So, did you take a test on the day of the debate, I guess, is the bottom line.</s>TRUMP: I probably did. And I took a test the day before and the day before. And I was always in great shape.</s>COSTA: So not only, Chris, did he not answer that question, he did not answer specific questions about Roe versus Wade, healthcare, his taxes and so on. And so, in many ways, this was a missed opportunity for the voters all night long because they really didn't hear the President get pinned down on much of anything, even though the Host, Savannah Guthrie, tried mightily. And on the issue of QAnon, I mean I think that's a huge case in point, Chris, throwing it back to you. He simply just did not want to deal with that question.</s>CUOMO: Well, look, let's take it apart a little bit. One, if, he had good information about negative tests, he'd offer it. The privacy ruse is exposed by the fact that they only give convenient information. If something is private, you don't give any information. So, they give us when he was positive. They give us now that he's negative because you need to hear that. But they won't give you the other information because it's not good for them. Any other conclusion is irrational in the absence of any other proof, one. Two, mistake a lot of us make, when you're interviewing Trump, you can't move on. You have to stay frustratingly, uncomfortably, on one topic. I've seen you do this, in press conferences. It makes you controversial.</s>ACOSTA: That's right, yes. Don't I know it?</s>CUOMO: But you cannot let it go --</s>ACOSTA: Yes.</s>CUOMO: -- when he is saying something that's not true. You have to stay right there. Like with the bin Laden stuff, "You say you don't know QAnon. You have to. Because we all know that you were told and you retweeted it today by your people what you had done and why you had done it and what it would mean. And you have to know what it is because you're the President of the United States, and you get talked to about this all the time. You can't be that dumb." So you think it's OK? I don't know. I don't know what they're good with.</s>ACOSTA: Right.</s>CUOMO: "Are you OK with the idea that Osama bin Laden wasn't killed? Are you OK with that?" He would probably say one of two things. "No, I believe he was killed." Well, then why did you retweet it? Problem for him. Two, "I don't know," which, as we both know, he may well say, "I don't know. I don't know what I can trust." Either way, staying on it, as uncomfortable as it is - and we've both been in those situations. You got the Control Room in your ear, telling you to move on, you got other people, it's about the people, it's not about you, you can't do that with Trump. All respect to Savannah Guthrie and her success, it's not about her. We all make the same mistake. With this particular political animal, you can't move on. Now, third --</s>ACOSTA: That's right.</s>CUOMO: -- he always says he doesn't know about something, Jim, when he doesn't want to talk about it. With White supremacy, "Which group? Which group? Which one do you want me to talk about? Proud Boys? Oh yes, I don't really know them." "David Duke." "David Duke? Who? I don't know him. I don't know the guy." I don't know where you grew up. But that was a very common device in Queens, where we grew up. "Where were you the other night? Were you with Louis when Lou?" "Lou? I don't know a Louis. I don't know," you know, it's like I heard that on the street corner, like 100 times when somebody was riding someone else's bicycle. He has to know who QAnon is.</s>ACOSTA: Yes.</s>CUOMO: So, what did that situation speak to, to you? Why would he feign ignorance of an obvious?</s>ACOSTA: And Chris, I think that might be the headline of the night. I mean, obviously, the President knows what QAnon is. There are QAnon supporters who go to his rallies all the time. I go to his rallies, and we see the QAnon supporters, who are there. They put out those catchphrases, to one another, as they're walking into these rally venues, and so on. And so, when Savannah Guthrie tried to press the President, on QAnon, and would he disavow it, she gave him multiple opportunities. He had chance after chance after chance to do it, to denounce QAnon, and he simply did not do it, and here's how that played out.</s>GUTHRIE: Let me ask you about QAnon. It is this theory that Democrats are a satanic pedophile ring and that you are the savior of that. Now, can you just once and for all state that that is completely not true --</s>TRUMP: So, I know you --</s>GUTHRIE: -- and disavow QAnon --</s>TRUMP: Yes.</s>GUTHRIE: -- in its entirety?</s>TRUMP: I know nothing about QAnon.</s>GUTHRIE: I just told you.</s>TRUMP: I know very little - you told me, but what you tell me doesn't necessarily make it fact. I hate to say that. I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard. But I know nothing about it.</s>GUTHRIE: They believe it is a satanic cult --</s>TRUMP: If you'd like me to study --</s>GUTHRIE: -- run by the Deep State.</s>TRUMP: -- let me just study. What I do hear about it is they are very strongly against pedophilia. And I agree with that. I mean I do agree with that.</s>GUTHRIE: OK.</s>TRUMP: And I agree with it very strongly.</s>GUTHRIE: But they're not a satanic pedophile cult run by --</s>TRUMP: I have no idea. I know nothing about that.</s>GUTHRIE: You don't know that? OK.</s>TRUMP: No, I don't know that. And neither --</s>GUTHRIE: You just this week --</s>TRUMP: -- and neither do you know that.</s>GUTHRIE: OK.</s>ACOSTA: So, the President says he doesn't know anything about QAnon, and then he says well, he thinks it's about pedophilia. It can't be both of those things, Chris. And finally, you were talking about this retweet that he put out there earlier, over the last 24 hours, lending credence to this crazy conspiracy theory that Osama bin Laden is still alive. When you're President of the United States, you simply don't do that. You don't retweet crazy conspiracy theory tweets. And so, it's sort of - I think that encapsulated the night for me, Chris, because it felt like tonight was one hour of four years of the Trump presidency. Lies, conspiracies, and nonsense.</s>CUOMO: That's a good title for a Special. Jim Acosta, thank you very much. Appreciate the reporting. Let's bring in the big brains, the Chief Doctor, Sanjay Gupta, Dana Bash, David Chalian, and Michael Smerconish. It's good to have you all. Thank you very much. Important night, Dana. Look, we all know, again, the device of "I don't know anything about it but." First of all, he's dead wrong about QAnon being against pedophilia. What they're against is Catholics. And they have decided that pedophilia is a cabal run by the Democrats. So, they have zero virtue factor. How likely is it, Dana, that he is completely ignorant to what he was discussing?</s>DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know this, Chris, because you've interviewed him, as have I. It's been a while, but we both have. And the great thing about interviewing Donald Trump is that he answers the questions. And when he doesn't answer the questions, it's because he doesn't want to answer the questions. And that's where "I don't know" comes from. I mean, of course, he knows. Of course he knows what QAnon is. And the fact that he knew enough to say it was about pedophilia but, as you say, got it completely wrong, that they're not against pedophilia. They create conspiracies that pretend that people who are in power, who don't necessarily like the President, are part of pedophilia rings. I mean, and it goes on and on and on from there. So yes, he knows. Yes, he is familiar with it. Yes, he retweets QAnon-related conspiracy ideas. And the fact that Savannah wouldn't let it go, you know what good for her, because he rarely gets, as you mentioned earlier, tough questions other than - he doesn't really do interviews other than, what you called, State</s>TV. CUOMO: Yes, and look, again, we've been in this situation, both of us, many times. You want to move on. You want to spread the ball. You want to get in the people - you can't do it with Trump because you'll wind up allowing him to end on a deception. Sanjay, Chris Wallace said the plane showed up late to the debate, so there wasn't time for a test, so it was on the honor system. The President said, "Well, look, I didn't have to wear a mask tonight because we both took tests." They won't confirm that he had a negative test the day of the debate. They say, "Well, privacy." Does that make any sense to you when they have given us other test results that are advantageous to the President for people to know?</s>DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, it doesn't make sense. And there's a couple points. One is, first of all, it is a knowable answer. I mean, it is known. It's not like, "Well, we have to go check records." It's very clearly documented somewhere when the President last had a negative test. But I think the more salient point, Chris, that you're making is that this is a contagious virus. I mean, it's a very contagious virus. So, the reason you get tested, obviously, you want the person to know, so they can isolate themselves, so they don't spread it to other people. And that's why that testing system was in place. And I will say, you know, I really reviewed the Cleveland Clinic protocol. It was pretty porous. I mean, it was an honor system. You could take whatever kind of test you wanted. It could be a PCR test or it could be an antigen test, any sort of authorized test. Some of them have pretty high false negative rates, as you know. And you just had to basically say you had it. I mean there was no, you know, they didn't go back and specifically ask for the documentation. So, it really was truly an honor system. And today, he basically still is not answering the question. We don't know that he was negative for certain at that debate. It sounds like he says he was, but he didn't really still answer that question.</s>CUOMO: David, did Trump win tonight, just by having us talking about him, right now, and not talking about Biden? Or is the fact that we're talking to him, in an exposing way, about such deficiencies make it a net-negative?</s>DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Listen, I think tonight was a really missed opportunity for the President, Chris. Tell me - describe to me who was the voter he added? He's the candidate behind in this race. Who was the voter he added tonight, when the headline is QAnon, once again, all over the map on that, not discrediting it entirely, this notion that he can just retweet things that have no basis in fact, to give conversation out there, to the people, that they should be able to talk about it? He's the President of the United States. He's behind in this race. And there is - there are very few opportunities left with this kind of tune-in factor, for him, to actually add to his coalition now. I mean, we're past the 10 percent mark of people having already cast ballots. Each day is such - is such an important time frame for him right now. This was a golden platform for him, and I just think he threw it away because he did not take "The issue," Coronavirus, head on, and try to assuage the American people or paint a better path forward. He didn't do that. No. He was traveling around in conspiracy theory land. And, to me, when that's the headline emerging from this, I don't know why he spent the time doing the Town Hall.</s>CUOMO: I got a question for Michael. But, just to remind you guys, this is CUOMO PRIME TIME. I'm all about crosstalk. You never have to wait for a question here. You want to say something, say it. I love the free-for-all in terms of an exchange of ideas. I love when people - that's what makes you guys so great is your ability to build off one another. Michael, the bin Laden thing, at a minimum, means the President is OK leaving it up to you to decide whether or not we killed bin Laden, even though he is the Commander-in-Chief. That's the best-case scenario by his own reckoning. Who does that get to go out to the polls for him tonight?</s>MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, "SMERCONISH": Can I dodge your question, and respond to David Chalian instead?</s>CUOMO: Yes.</s>SMERCONISH: So, I understand what David said, and logically --</s>CUOMO: See, all you have to do is ask. That's the genius.</s>SMERCONISH: -- logically, you would think it's a night where he's seeking to do some addition. But that's never been the way that he's governed, and it's never been the way that he's run this campaign. It's not about addition in their mind. It's about motivation. And so, much of that which gets criticized here that he said, oddly, I think, to the President's way of thinking, is motivating. I don't know what the reaction will be. But my hunch is, in Trumpland, the reaction will be the dichotomy between the type of questioning that the President faced from Savannah Guthrie, and the sort of questioning that Joe Biden - Vice President Biden, was facing from George Stephanopoulos. Like everybody else, I've been sitting here with a clicker tonight, going back and forth. And I'll give you a concrete example. It's --</s>CHALIAN: But Michael, then why not do it on Fox?</s>SMERCONISH: -- it's the elephant in the room. So let me just address it.</s>CUOMO: Answer his question. Wait, hold on a second.</s>SMERCONISH: I don't think --</s>CUOMO: Well hold on. Michael? Michael?</s>SMERCONISH: I don't think --</s>CUOMO: Michael?</s>SMERCONISH: I don't think that Joe Biden - I don't think that Joe Biden is benefited from not being questioned about that "New York Post" story and Facebook and Twitter. He's prepared to deal with it. But when it's not raised, all that does is fuel Trumpland saying "Look at that."</s>CUOMO: All right.</s>SMERCONISH: "They won't even ask him that question."</s>CUOMO: But Michael, Michael, two things. One, you got to make sure that you know the reporting before you hit somebody with it because if you're wrong on your premise, that's bad journalism. Two, David made a good point. If your theory is correct, then he should have done it with Fox. So David, why would that be the smarter place, based on Michael's own assertion about what --</s>CHALIAN: Well listen</s>I -- BASH: Well --</s>CUOMO: -- balance would be.</s>CHALIAN: Michael has the right theory of the case for how Donald Trump wins this election still.</s>CUOMO: Yes.</s>CHALIAN: Which is - there's no doubt. That is his path, is finding more Trump-minded, specifically White non-college-educated folks who didn't show up in 2016.</s>SMERCONISH: Right.</s>CHALIAN: Who didn't show up in 2018, and turn them out. But they're not watching - I mean they might be watching the President. But going on NBC is a moment for him. You do that if you're in the business of addition. I agree with Michael.</s>BASH: And --</s>CHALIAN: That has not been the governing mission, at all, for 3.5 years of Donald Trump.</s>BASH: And --</s>CHALIAN: And, by the way, I think it's why he's behind in this race. Sorry, Dana, go ahead.</s>BASH: No, no, no, no, and I agree. Look, I was in Michael's home state of Pennsylvania, the other side of the state in Southwest PA, talking to people, and those voters do exist. The voters that didn't - that like Donald Trump, didn't vote before, and will go out and vote for him again. It's an open question about whether there is enough of them. But I want to add a data point that flies in the face of this whole idea that he's continuing to only speak to his base. Now, I know obviously, with him not denouncing QAnon, it's hard to make an argument otherwise. But he didn't answer the question about whether he wants to overturn Roe v. Wade. I mean, that, for a Donald Trump, looking only at his base should have been a slam dunk. But this is a Donald Trump, looking at a chasm, between himself and Joe Biden with female voters right now, as people are voting. And the fact that he didn't want to go there is very telling about where he sees things, not just with the people, who've already voted, but the internal polling that he's seeing.</s>CUOMO: To Dana's point, he also said tonight, several times, we should be on the same side, especially around healthcare. That's new talk for him. And he still bashed Pelosi and the deal-making. By the way, we're going to take a break. We're going to come back and talk about what Biden was saying. I think - I think not getting a deal, for Democrats right now, even a partial one, is something we've got to talk about. What Michael brought up, about, what Biden should be answering for, we also have to talk about, especially about court-packing. I don't know why people are saying that that's a distraction. It's a distraction because they won't answer it. But to Dana's point, he said we should be on the same side. He wouldn't answer about Roe v. Wade. And he said "I promise we'll always protect their pre-existing conditions" even though --</s>CUOMO: -- they're in court right now trying to end the pre-existing conditions. But good point, Dana, as always. Let's take a quick break. Let's come back and talk Biden. Michael, I'll start with you. Sanjay, I'll get you in there in terms of points of contrast, on COVID, because both guys really quiet on better plans, for the next six months, and we got to talk about that, next.</s>TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

Democratic Presidential Candidate Joe Biden On Court-Packing.

TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.</s>CUOMO: Trump is done. Joe Biden's Town Hall is still going. And he too is making headlines, and giving some answers that will demand our scrutiny. Let's go to Arlette Saenz in Philadelphia. Arlette?</s>ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Chris, Joe Biden is still in his 90-minute Town Hall that has really been heavily policy- focused. Biden has received some pointed questions about past statements and also support for past policies. But one of the most noteworthy moments came tonight when Biden offered his clearest answer yet when it came to the issue of court-packing. That is a question that he has deflected for weeks. Take a listen to what he had to say tonight.</s>JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm not a fan. I didn't say - it depends on how this turns out. I'm open to considering what happens from that point on.</s>GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, CHIEF ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: You know, you said so many times, during the campaign, all through the course of your career, it's important to level with the American people.</s>BIDEN: It is. But George, if I - if I say - no matter what answer I gave you, if I say it, that's the headline tomorrow. It won't be about what's going on now, the improper way, they're proceeding.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: But don't voters have a right to know where you stand?</s>BIDEN: They do have a right to know where I stand. They'll have a right to know where I stand before they vote.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: So you'll come out with a clear position before Election Day?</s>BIDEN: Yes.</s>SAENZ: Now, that's a bit of a shift. Biden had previously said that voters would know his position the day after the election. So, a bit of news that he made there. Biden also, again trying to present that contrast with the President on his handling of the Coronavirus - Coronavirus pandemic. And when he was asked about a vaccine, asked whether there should be consideration about making a vaccine mandatory, he said that that is something that should be talked about, but acknowledged that it would be very difficult to enforce, saying that a lot of these things have to happen through the state level. Now, Biden was also asked about his previous work and support of that 1994 Crime Bill. And during a discussion about the many people after these Crime Bills, from the 1980s, 1990s, many people being jailed for minor drug offenses, Biden was asked if that was a mistake. He said "Yes." His campaign is saying that he was referring to the 1986 Crime Bill, not the 1994 Crime Bill. So, that's something that will need to be sorted out. But this is a very heavily policy-focused Town Hall. Biden didn't really spend that much time going after President Trump directly. Instead, he is laying out what his agenda is, really offering this contrast without the President even being on that stage. Chris?</s>CUOMO: Arlette, thank you very much. No question, Joe Biden says things where he makes mistakes at a minimum. The good news for him is they're getting called out by a complete gaffe machine in our current president, President Trump. Let's bring back the panel here. Now, Michael, we have unfinished business, in terms of whether or not what Trump was doing tonight makes sense in terms of strategy, let alone value to people. But let's spend a little love time on Biden here, and what he did. Dana, help me understand this. I come to you often, for advice about how to be my best self. I don't get the criticism that I am asking a distraction question when I push the Democrats on court-packing. Their whole pitch is that they will be more straight than Trump is. That answer that he just gave, I don't even understand. "I don't know. I'm not in favor of it. I got to see what happens here. The people deserve to know my position, and I'll let them know before the election."</s>BASH: It's --</s>CUOMO: Why not just say yes or no?</s>BASH: It's not - it's not a distraction question. It's a real question, based on a real movement, inside the Democratic Party, to change the number of seats, to expand the number of seats, on the Supreme Court, in order to get more Democratically like-minded judges, if you will, or a Democratic President to appoint more judges. I mean, that is a fact. That is out there. The former Vice President knows that. He's trying to avoid answering that because if he says "Yes, I'm for it," it will really make people, who are kind of inclined to traditionally vote for Republicans, but don't like Donald Trump, maybe think twice about Biden, if he says - or if he says "No," that he's going to piss off the progressives and the opposite of what I just said about independents. But the thing is, is that when he says "I'm going to wait until, you know, before Election Day," as David Chalian reminds us every day, Election Day is right now, in many, many states.</s>CUOMO: Yes.</s>BASH: Millions of people have voted. So, that's not going to cut it with them.</s>CUOMO: That answer is "Trumpery" by definition. That has nothing to do with Trump's name. Look it up. It's a real word. Michael, but isn't this an example of why Trump screwed up and should have been on the stage with Biden? Because imagine how you expose --</s>SMERCONISH: Well no doubt.</s>CUOMO: -- that kind of answer.</s>SMERCONISH: No doubt. It would have been in the President's best interest, and the country's best interest, to see them together. The idea that America is clicking back and forth tonight, I think, is sad. Look, that answer from the Vice President is illogical because it could apply, that standard could apply to any hot-button issue.</s>CUOMO: Yes.</s>SMERCONISH: "Oh, if I answer you, that's going to become the issue." Well, that's the nature of public service. But the bigger point is this. It's all in keeping with the Hippocratic Oath nature of the Vice President's campaign. They're comfortably ahead, and all they want to do is no harm from now until the election. I knew the minute that Trump turned down the virtual debate opportunity that the Vice President would fill his dance card, and not be on the same stage with him, because they want to limit any exposure they have, and just ride this out.</s>CUOMO: How big a deal, David, is the Hamina-Hamina-Hamina on court- packing headline-for-headline versus "Yes, I want you guys to decide," the President says, whether or not we killed Obama (ph) whether or not the SEAL team guys are heroes or shills.</s>CHALIAN: Right. As you said, it's not sort of an equal wig kind of a thing here. But I just - it is befuddling to me how much time Joe Biden has spent on saying he doesn't want to talk about court-packing.</s>SMERCONISH: Right.</s>CHALIAN: It's just an inordinate amount of time that could be spent elsewhere. Politically, I'm not even sure that he would take on so much damage from the Left-wing of his Party, if he came out against this plan that would be somehow so damaging. I mean one of the big stories of 2020, Chris, is that the real divisions that exist inside the Democratic Party, which we saw play out, in the sort of halted Democratic nomination race that sort of wound down very quickly, back in March, they're real. There are real divisions inside the Party. And there's no doubt that there is real power in the Left-wing. But they've - they have papered over all of that because of the antipathy towards Trump. The entire Party is so focused on the mission of getting rid of Trump --</s>CUOMO: You think so?</s>CHALIAN: -- that Joe Biden saying he's not a fan of court-packing, in the past he said, "Democrats would rue the day," he's clearly signaling where he is on this. And I just don't know if the calculation is right that he would take on so much heat from the Left to really cause himself a political problem.</s>BASH: I think you're probably right, David. The thing that I'm hearing from people, around Joe Biden, as I'm sure you are is, that he just don't want to risk it, especially right now. They don't want to risk it. They feel that they've got the wind at their back. They're doing well and why say something that is going to --</s>CUOMO: But it makes him sound like Trump. It makes him sound like everything we hate about politicians. You're not answering a question --</s>BASH: He is a politician.</s>CUOMO: -- that you clearly have an answer to.</s>BASH: He is a politician.</s>CHALIAN: It is an inauthentic moment. There's no doubt about it.</s>CUOMO: Where you're supposed to be better.</s>CHALIAN: For a guy who sells himself as Mr. Authenticity.</s>CUOMO: Yes, you're supposed to be better. Now, Sanjay, something else neither guy had a good answer for tonight. How are we going to do things better in the next block of time? Harder for Trump, because he's this - on this double-down strategy that the pandemic's not a big deal, but Biden doesn't pop off with answers either, about what to do. And the only thing that really becomes a button is something that's more definite to discuss, like vaccines. And he says "I don't know that you can enforce a forced vaccine. It's a state issue." Let me play that sound, because a lot of people, watching tonight, their main concern in their life, is the pandemic and what it means to them. So, listen to this.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: If it's effective, will you mandate its use?</s>BIDEN: The answer is depending on how clear - vaccines, they say, have a very positive impact, and they're going to affect positively 85 percent of the American public. There's others that say this vaccine is really the key, this is - this is - this is the golden key. It depends on the state of the nature of the vaccine, when it comes out, and how it's being distributed. That would depend on. But I would think that we should be talking about, depending on the continuation of the spread of the virus, we should be thinking about making it mandatory.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: How did you --</s>CUOMO: What did you get?</s>GUPTA: Well, it's interesting because he's obviously trying to walk that line. I mean he's talked about the fact that he wouldn't take a vaccine, if it was Trump, who endorsed it, but he would take it if the scientists endorse it. So, he's drawing these lines. And he's - and he's walking the line on the mandatory - whether or not a vaccine should be mandatory as well.</s>CUOMO: Should it?</s>GUPTA: So, no surprise. I mean I think - well I think probably not, right at this point, because we don't even have an authorized vaccine. And we'd have to actually see what the data is. And it hasn't been tested in kids. Who would you give it to? Who's most likely to benefit? Not everyone may benefit the same. So, there's missing data. So, it's a fair thing to say, "Hey, at this point, with what we know, probably not mandating this." But, Chris, there were other points of distinction though besides the vaccine. He didn't talk about masks, for example, and brought up this fact that the White House - the model that the White House uses themselves, this IHME model, shows that if there was a near-universal mask mandate, you could save 100,000 lives. He talked about the idea that the Defense Production Act should have been implemented, so we have a lot more testing, the idea that people could test daily, like they do at the NBA, and other professional sports leagues, and things like that, why isn't that available to the average person?</s>CUOMO: You get the last word.</s>GUPTA: He spent - he spent some time also talking about this idea of who knew what when. Did the President - the President knew that this was a deadly virus, far deadlier than a - than a flu virus, and he knew that it was airborne, back on February 7th, so what was done about it. So, he brought up history and he did bring up this idea of Defense Production Act, for possibly testing, and masks, you know? So, aside from the vaccine, these are the points of distinction. It was really very much a commentary about economic health being the priority versus human health being the priority, which is where I think Vice President Biden was sort of focusing a lot of his comments tonight.</s>CUOMO: Right. I think that works on a panel like this. But if you're going to be President, you better have a plan to make it happen. Because walking the walk is hard in government. And I think that's one of the problems. I certainly saw it watching the State of New York trying to deal with the federal government. Remember, I had an unusual inside view, especially early on.</s>GUPTA: Yes.</s>CUOMO: And they can say a lot of things. They make very few things happen, even when they say they're trying to, because of how things hard - how hard things are, when you haven't done them before. Michael, last word to you, at the end of this night, where do you think it leaves us?</s>SMERCONISH: It's a whiplash evening, going back and forth between the channels. No blood drawn. Each side will see in it what they wanted to see. And all pressure, one week from tonight, on the final debate.</s>CUOMO: I like it. And I like you. All of you, thank you very much for being with me tonight. I appreciate it. Let's take a quick breather. When we come back, let's bring in a couple of different voices. Let's bring in Van Jones and Rick Santorum in terms of - because you got intensity here, of fringes, right? What is the state of play after tonight? Biden's still going, but it's about to end. Next.</s>TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

France Imposing Curfews for Paris, Other Cities to Slow Spread

SANCHEZ: France is taking drastic action to slow the spread of coronavirus. President Emmanuel Macron imposing a curfew for Paris and eight other cities of concern beginning this weekend. CNN's Melissa Bell joins us now live from France. And, Melissa, I understand this curfew is set to last for at least four weeks. How is it being received?</s>MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, it was very difficult for the government to announce simply because France's economy did not need this particular extra set of restrictions taken. So yes, from Saturday, the number of cities including Paris from 9:00 p.m. until 6:00 a.m., everything is going to be shut, and you're going to be expected to be at home. The reason, explained Emmanuel Macron on television last night, that they simply have to bring the surge of COVID-19 figures back under control. This wave he warned is more dangerous than the last, not only because it's spread over the whole of France but because there are no reserve beds left. So, it was a dramatic speech and that curfew comes into effect on Saturday, but today also we've had the news from our affiliate, BFM, there's been a number of searches conducted in some of these leading the fight against the COVID pandemic, the current and former health officials, the former prime minister. All this is part of the criminal investigation that was launched by a number of different parties who wanted to get to the bottom of whether French authorities had done enough to treat the pandemic here to try to get it back under control, especially in it early days, Boris.</s>SANCHEZ: Yeah, public health state of emergency now, more than seven months into this pandemic. Melissa Bell, reporting from Bordeaux, France, thanks so much.</s>ROMANS: All right. Fifteen minutes past the hour, one of the biggest states threatens to pull funding from local governments not enforcing coronavirus restrictions in hot spots. CNN has the reporters covering the latest stories coast to coast.</s>BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Brynn Gingras from New Jersey. Don't follow the rules, don't expect to get state funding. That's the message New York Governor Andrew Cuomo is sending to local governments who are failing to enforce gathering limits and school closures in COVID-19 cluster areas. Right now, a letter with that message is being sent to five areas in the state, including New York City, a separate letter with the same message will be addressed to schools in red zone areas who are not complying. Now, this comes as some schools and religious institutions are still operating despite the shut down order issued by the state last week. Now, according to the state, those designated red zone areas are at over 6 percent positivity rate. Cuomo says this is the final warning.</s>LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Lucy Kafanov in Denver. The city's mayor is warning residents they could face new restrictions if COVID-19 infections continue to rise. He said that recent case counts are as high right now as they were at the height of the pandemic back in May, and that hospitalizations have also soared. If the trend continues, the city's mayor warns Denver residents that they could go back to level three restrictions which would require businesses and indoor dining to cut their capacity in half.</s>AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Amara Walker in Georgia. Coronavirus rapid tests are coming to Arkansas. Governor Asa Hutchinson says that he expects to receive 50,000 antigen tests a week, adding to the current supply of 100,000. Election workers will be given priority to help workers comfort level before and after going to the polling places. Most of the tests, 55 percent of them will go to K-12 schools for a routine screening, 20 percent to the Department of Corrections, and another 20 percent to the state's human development centers. Health care workers will also get access to these rapid antigen tests.</s>SANCHEZ: Thanks to all of our correspondents for those reports. The most famous coach in college football now diagnosed with coronavirus. What Nick Saban's diagnosis means for the rest of the college football season, next in your "Bleacher Report".

Alabama Coach Nick Saban Tests Positive for COVID-19.

ROMANS: All right. President Trump says he saved the college football season but games keep getting cancelled. And now, the most prominent coach in the country has coronavirus. Andy Sholes has more in this morning's "Bleacher Report". Hey, Andy.</s>ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Christine. So, just a few days before Alabama is set to host Georgia in the biggest game of the college football season thus far, Crimson Tide head coach Nick Saban says he has tested positive for COVID-19. Saban immediately left the team's facility yesterday after hearing the news. The 68-year-old who has encouraged everyone to wear masks in PSA's, he says he's asymptomatic and in self-isolation now. Saban continued to monitor practice yesterday via zoom, and he says he was surprised by his diagnosis, adding that it's a reminder, you can get exposed no matter how safe you think you are.</s>NICK SABAN, ALABAMA HEAD FOOTBALL COACH: When we're in our own personal bubble here, I think everybody's in a much safer place. I think as soon as you travel you get exposed to a lot more things and a lot more people. I always tell our players, just assume everyone that you come in contact with might be infected, and you might be infected and not know it, and actually, you know, bring harm to them.</s>SCHOLES: Alabama's athletic director Greg Byrne tested positive for COVID-19 yesterday. He and Coach Saban, the only two in the program to test positive so far. They are going to do more testing today. For now, second-ranked Alabama still set to host third-ranked Georgia Saturday night. All right. Ole Miss hosted Alabama this past Saturday, and their head coach Lane Kiffin says his team is now dealing with coronavirus issues for the first time. He didn't specify how many players have tested positive, and he says he's hopeful the Rebels will be able to play Arkansas on Saturday. Florida's big showdown with LSU in Gainesville, meanwhile, it has been postponed. That game rescheduled for December 12th. A Florida school official saying 21 Gator players have tested positive for COVID-19 over the past several days. All right. The NFL cancelling the Pro Bowl for the first time since 1949 yesterday. It was going to be played in Las Vegas, but now they're going to host the game in 2022. There have been 12 games pushed back by COVID-19 already this NFL season, and losing the Pro Bowl, it could give the league more flexibility for scheduling down the line. All right. It's baseball, the Atlanta Braves sometimes just do not like the first inning in the postseason. The Braves giving up 11 runs to the dodgers in the first inning yesterday. That's the most runs in any inning in postseason history. Just last year, the Braves gave up the previous record of ten runs to the Cardinals in the first inning of game five of the NLDS. Atlanta, however, still leads this series 2- 1 over the Dodgers, even though they lost yesterday 15-3. The Astros, meanwhile, living to fight another day in the ALCS. George Springer breaking a 2-2 tie in the 5th with a massive home run to left. Astros hang on to the 4-3 victory. Game five of that series just after 5:00 Eastern today. You can see it on our sister network, TBS. Game four between the Dodgers and Braves at 8:00 Eastern. You know, Boris, the Astros getting that win, down 3-1. Let's see if they can make it a series.</s>SANCHEZ: Andy, I'm not going to lie, you can call me a hater, but anytime I see the Astros doing well, I see Astros highlight, I hear the faint clanging of a garbage can somewhere in the background. Andy Scholes with the "Bleacher Report" this morning, thank you so much. We are 25 minutes past the hour, and after a chaotic first debate, a presidential health crisis, and a debate cancellation, Joe Biden and Donald Trump will face off one last time. The final presidential debate special live coverage starts next Thursday at 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Trump Pushes Denial As U.S. Cases Return To Summer Levels; Trump And Biden To Appear At Dueling Televised Town Halls Tonight

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Progress lost. The coronavirus threat growing again. The nation is in jeopardy; the president is in denial.</s>BARACK OBAMA (D), FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just basic competence can end up saving lives.</s>BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And, President Obama stepping up to bat for Joe Biden, getting involved in the election. It's not the only big infusion for the Biden campaign, though. Good morning, thanks so much for joining us. This is EARLY START. I'm Boris Sanchez in for Laura Jarrett.</s>ROMANS: Nice to see you again this morning, Boris.</s>SANCHEZ: Thank you.</s>ROMANS: I'm Christine Romans. It's 30 minutes past the hour. A painful reality in the U.S. once again -- almost 60,000 confirmed coronavirus cases yesterday. That's more than we've seen in a single day since August first. Another 985 Americans are dead with trends heading in the wrong direction in almost half the states. At that rate, another 40 families will lose a loved one during just this one- hour broadcast.</s>SANCHEZ: Still, President Trump remains deeply committed to denial and distraction in order to keep his job. Also, Melania Trump revealed yesterday that their son Barron also recently tested positive for COVID and fortunately, he's now negative. But his father used that to again downplay the severity of the disease.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He had it for such a short period of time, I don't even think he knew he had it. Because they're young and their immune systems are strong and they fight it off 99.9 percent. And, Barron is beautiful and he's free -- free.</s>SANCHEZ: Remember, health experts say children are less likely to become severely ill than adults but they can still become infected and then spread the virus to others.</s>ROMANS: The CDC now posting an optimistic forecast about vaccines, promising something by the end of 2020. Dr. Anthony Fauci says we should know in the next few months if a vaccine could be widely available early next year as hoped.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: That will likely be within the first quarter of 2021 -- by, let's say, April of 2021. But that would be predicated on the fact that all of the vaccines that are in clinical trials have proven to be safe and effective.</s>ROMANS: Whenever a safe vaccine is approved, only a few million doses will likely be available at first. And, Fauci says Americans may have to rethink their large family gatherings this Thanksgiving. Remember, the president wanted everyone back in church by Easter.</s>SANCHEZ: Right. And looking across the country, COVID cases tied to a northern California megachurch are climbing. Hundreds attended an event at Bethel Church in Redding, even after infections had been confirmed there. And in North Dakota, they're reporting their highest number of daily cases since the start of the pandemic. This week, the state reporting fewer than 20 staffed ICU beds available. And with small family gatherings a concern, Beverly Hills has banned trick or treating and spraying shaving cream on Halloween.</s>ROMANS: All right. Tonight on T.V., it's the election version of anything you can do, I can do better. President Trump and former vice president Joe Biden participating in dueling town halls after their second debate was canceled. Biden will be appearing on ABC from Philadelphia, the president on NBC from Miami, both at 8:00 p.m.</s>SANCHEZ: And, Trump is also holding a rally in North Carolina today, but look at this. Early in-person voting has begun and cases are spiking. He took to the stage last night in Iowa, where cases are also spiking, and he did next to nothing to protect thousands of Iowans in this crowd. CNN's Jim Acosta is on the ground in Des Moines.</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Christine and Boris, President Trump staged yet another potential super-spreader event at the Des Moines airport in Iowa with thousands of people on hand. Many in the crowd were not practicing social distancing and they were not wearing masks. And I had a chance to talk to some of those Trump supporters as they were filing in. They essentially said they're placing their trust more in the president than the top health experts who say they should be playing it safe. And here's some of what they had to say.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I care about people and I don't want to give it to them if there's a chance you might be carrying it around myself. I'm not worried. I figure the sooner we all get it, the sooner we'll be done with it.</s>ACOSTA: And you don't think that could lead to a lot of people, you know, dying perhaps from the virus if --</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the numbers are vastly inflated.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have any concerns at all. You can't live your life in fear and I'm not really scared of this virus. There's all kinds of other viruses out there.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, if I'm going to get sick and die, I guess it's my turn. But I trust God and I'm not scared.</s>ACOSTA: And there were plenty of critics at the president's rally here in the Des Moines area. As we spotted outside the airport where this rally took place, there was a billboard that said "Trump Super- Spreader Event" with an arrow pointing to the rally site -- Christine and Boris.</s>ROMANS: All right, Jim Acosta in Iowa. Thanks, Jim. The Biden campaign finally playing its much-anticipated ace in the hole against President Trump. Barack Obama, interviewed by alums from his administration on their Pod Save America podcast. The former president telling the show's progressive audience the first priority is winning and then to push for policy changes once Democrats hold the White House. He also talked about the pandemic and how government should be able to respond if you have competent people -- the right people in place.</s>OBAMA: Just basic competence can end up saving lives. And so, one thing I would say to anybody who is skeptical about what government can do generally is to just take the example of when we were in office. You might not have been happy with everything I did -- all my policy choices. I didn't, you know, eliminate poverty in America. But when we had a pandemic or the threat of a pandemic, we had competent people in place who would deal with it.</s>SANCHEZ: The former president also says that if Joe Biden wins, he will have to rebuild the State Department and the rest of America's foreign policy apparatus.</s>OBAMA: It's not as if Trump has been all that active internationally. I mean, the truth is he doesn't have the patience and the focus to really substantially change a lot of U.S. foreign policy. What he's done is he's systematically tried to decimate our entire foreign policy infrastructure.</s>SANCHEZ: Now, Obama is expected to be out on the trail campaigning for Biden soon, and notably, in states where early voting is already underway. He's trying to convert enthusiasm into votes.</s>ROMANS: All right, 19 days until the election. It's time for three questions in three minutes. Let's bring in CNN senior political analyst John Avlon. Nice to see you this morning.</s>SANCHEZ: Good morning.</s>JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.</s>ROMANS: These dueling town halls tonight -- no debate, just talking about each other on different networks. Does this benefit anyone or does everyone kind of lose focus here by forcing voters to pick?</s>AVLON: Well look, it certainly divides focus. I mean, certainly, people can tape them and if they want to and can watch them side-by- side. Look, obviously, a double town hall debate would have been much better in terms of the clear contrast for voters. But, you know, this is -- town halls are actually a tough format for President Trump. Certainly, that was true in the ABC town hall a few weeks ago. Biden tends to do better. And so, they -- this is the a la carte choice America's got right now. I think it is a loss for the American people. But given the president's previous COVID diagnosis, you know, he took his marbles and went home, so we'll have the final debate together next week. But they'll still be some news that comes out of this.</s>ROMANS: Yes.</s>AVLON: Mark my words.</s>SANCHEZ: Yes, John, some of these numbers in fundraising really jump off the page. A record $383 million raised by Joe Biden in September. Typically, cash equals passion, right, and enthusiasm. Trump has yet to release his September numbers yet but he trailed Biden badly in August after leading the money race in the spring. Trump campaign folks point to 2016. They say that they ran a relatively barebones campaign and they still won. They're not too worried -- at least they say they're not worried. But should they be concerned?</s>AVLON: Yes. Look, you want to find the truth in politics, follow the money. When campaigns don't release their fundraising totals it's because they really don't want to. Look, money isn't everything. Money can't buy you love. Trump's hardcore supporters love him no matter what and he did succeed last time around, electorally, without having a money edge. But to be contesting this many states he won last time around, while pulling ads -- and the Biden campaign is putting up ads in a lot of states that have seemed pretty safe red in the past -- that's not a good sign no matter how you spin it.</s>ROMANS: You know, let's talk about the Barack Obama factor -- the former president getting involved. We just heard from him. He's going to hit the trail in the next week or so. Counterpoint, though. Does Biden need this when he's already kind of ahead? Could Obama polarize a race that's already tilting Biden's way?</s>AVLON: I don't think that people, like, don't know that Biden was Obama's V.P. I think this is clearly a play to the base move -- out on the campaign trail.</s>ROMANS: Yes.</s>AVLON: -- a lot of energy -- where, as you pointed out, voting is already going on. Look, in general, I'd just say one of the key rules to politics is the best defense is a good offense. You always campaign like you're behind. The moment campaigns start worrying about oh, what if we play too hard and alienate some folks, that's when you know you're really losing. It's an obvious move to make. It's time to make it -- let's go.</s>ROMANS: All right, John Avlon.</s>SANCHEZ: Yes.</s>ROMANS: Nice to see you.</s>SANCHEZ: Thank you very much, John.</s>AVLON: Take care, guys.</s>ROMANS: CNN political analyst. Great conversation. All right. Millions of Americans need another stimulus package but both sides in Washington more intent, it appears, on blaming each for failure instead of coming together to get this job done. Meanwhile, real people are struggling. Business owners trying to get creative to survive. Restaurants, including this one in Virginia, expanded outdoor seating by taking over nearby parking spaces in an empty lot. But, of course, colder weather is coming. That could mean fewer customers. Colder weather and the possibility of converging flu and coronavirus outbreaks threaten the makeshift operating models that so many have helped keep revenue flowing during the pandemic. Now, the type of help business owners can expect depends on the outcome of the election. President Trump and Joe Biden have laid out starkly different plans for helping businesses survive. Until then, all eyes are on stimulus talks. Both sides plan to speak again today, Boris.</s>SANCHEZ: Yes. The California Republican Party says it will not comply with the state's cease and desist order over unofficial ballot drop boxes placed in at least four counties. State officials say the boxes are illegal. They found them in Los Angeles, Ventura County -- Orange and Fresno as well. No word yet on what happens to the legal ballots that have been dropped into unauthorized boxes. And overnight, the U.S. Postal Service agreeing to reverse changes that slowed mail service nationwide. Many fear that the changes could delay the return of ballots being sent by mail.</s>ROMANS: In Virginia, a federal judge has extended the state's voter registration deadline through today. It comes after tech issues kept voters from registering Tuesday, which was the original deadline. In Tennessee, long lines greeted thousands on the first day of early voting, repeating those scenes that played out his week in Georgia and Texas. Also, in Texas, a win for Democrats. The State Appeals Court dismissing a Republican lawsuit trying to block curbside drive-thru voting in Harris County, which is home to Houston, a major Democratic stronghold. We'll be right back.

Germany Hit By Record Spike In New Coronavirus Cases.

SANCHEZ: The United States certainly not the only country struggling to contain coronavirus. Italy reporting its highest daily increase of new cases during the entire pandemic. It's more than 7,300. The previous record was set on March 21st. Now, some of those numbers pale in comparison to other countries, including Spain, Poland, the Czech Republic, and the U.K. Overnight, Germany also reporting a record daily increase in new cases. CNN's Scott McLean is live in Berlin and he joins us now with the latest. Scott, officials really trying desperately to keep up with these rising numbers.</s>SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and, Boris -- so, Germany's second wave of the coronavirus has actually now officially now eclipsed its first wave with the country reporting more than 6,600 cases in the past 24 hours. It comes just a day after Chancellor Angela Merkel met with the premiers of this country's 16 federal states to try to hash out a more unified approach to the virus in place of the patchwork of different rules and restrictions in different states. The afternoon meeting, though, stretched well into the evening. And several hours after it was supposed to end, the chancellor finally announced that in virus hotspots, which includes most large cities in this country, restaurants and bars will have to close early. There will also be restrictions on the size of social gatherings -- 10 people in public, just two households in private homes. They're going to see how these measures go over the next 10 days or so, but if they cannot manage to control the -- or flatten the curve of infection, the chancellor said she will not hesitate to bring in more stringent measures. And one other thing. She also specifically called out young people, saying that it is better to miss out on a few parties today so that you can have a better future tomorrow -- Boris.</s>SANCHEZ: Yes, a message that doesn't just resonate in Germany but all over the world and here in the United States as well. Scott McLean, thanks so much.</s>ROMANS: All right, to Russia now, once again reporting a record number of new infections, and further lockdowns are a definite possibility. In the middle of this COVID spike, Russian authorities have announced approval of a -- of a second vaccine, which has not been widely tested. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is live this morning for us in Moscow. Hi, Fred.</s>FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Christine. Yes, this vaccine comes from a lab in Siberia called the Vector Institute, which actually was a former chemical weapons lab. And the Russians, as you said, have approved this vaccine. It was announced yesterday by Vladimir Putin in a cabinet meeting without going through those key phase-three trials which, of course, are the main trials to see whether or not a vaccine is both effective and safe. The Russians are acknowledging that this vaccine has only been given to about 100 participants so far and they still claim that the vaccine, so far, has been effective and that there have been very few side effects. Now, it also seems to be the case, though, that the Russians don't believe that either this vaccine or the first vaccine that they approved, the Sputnik V vaccine, is going to be available to the broader public here in Russia anytime soon. As you mentioned, the number of new coronavirus infections still very high. Also, the Russians, the single-highest death toll for a single day happened in the past 24 hours. And the Russian authorities are urging people to stick by the pandemic measures and saying, as you mentioned, further stronger measures could become necessary, Christine.</s>ROMANS: All right, Frederik Pleitgen. Thank you so much for that, Fred. The Los Angeles City Council has approved the creation of unarmed crisis response teams to handle non-violent 911 calls instead of police. The measure allows the city to join forces with non-profit partners to implement the pilot program. Calls for less aggressive intervention grew louder after the police killings of George Floyd and others. The proposal now heads to Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti for final approval.</s>SANCHEZ: A huge bomb dropped by Britain during the Second World War exploding in a Polish canal during attempted removal on Tuesday. Look at that. The Tallboy-type bomb weighing 12,000 pounds is the largest ever found in Poland. It's believed to have been dropped during a raid on a German ship in the final days of the war. The Polish navy was trying to slowly incinerate the explosive inside the bomb when it just went off. Fortunately, no injuries or damages were reported.</s>ROMANS: Wow, what amazing footage. All right, let's get a check on CNN Business this morning. Losses for markets around the world here. Asian markets closed lower. European markets have tumbled as stimulus hopes fade and, well, coronavirus cases surge around the world. On Wall Street, futures right now down about one percent. That would be almost 300 points if it holds. Stocks finished lower Wednesday. The Dow down 166 points. The S&P 500 and the Nasdaq also down here. Investors will get the latest peek into the jobs crisis in just a couple of hours. First-time unemployment claims are expected to remain historically high. United Airlines posted another big loss as the pandemic keeps people out of the friendly skies. It lost $2.4 billion in the third quarter. And, United's CEO said while the pandemic will keep many people from flying in the near-term, the airline is focused now on a strong recovery that will allow it to bring back furloughed workers. United cut 13,000 jobs on October first after funding from the CARES Act ended. Starbucks plans to tie executive pay to diversity initiatives in 2021. Now, Starbucks did not specify how pay will be affected but it set goals to raise the number of employees who are black, indigenous, and people of color. Now, Starbucks is also launching a mentorship program to connect employees of color with senior leadership. A number of companies have made these commitments to increase diversity following racial unrest this year that really kind of revealed big inequality in the economy in hiring in American business. Sugar and spice and everything nice on a donut. Dunkin' is adding a spicy donut for the first time ever, just in time for Halloween -- the Ghost Pepper donut, topped with strawberry icing mixed with cayenne and ghost pepper. That's one of the hottest chili peppers in the world. Spicy foods have been trending on fast-food menus recently. This quirky menu add is Dunkin's latest move to keep customers coming back to stores. The daring donut will be available through December. I'm not sure I'm a taker.</s>SANCHEZ: I think I'm going to have to --</s>ROMANS: I'm not sure I'm a taker.</s>SANCHEZ: I think -- I think I'm going to have to add that to my renowned breakfast of boozy ice cream and pig's feet. I think it'll make a great addition.</s>ROMANS: We always have a good food story when you're here, Boris.</s>SANCHEZ: Thanks, Christine. Take a look at this. It'll make for a heck of a jack-o-lantern. A Minnesota teacher capturing the Super Bowl of pumpkins at the 47th annual Safeway World Championship Pumpkin weigh-in -- Weigh-Off in California. The winning weight was 2,350 pounds. At seven -- look at that smiling face -- at $7.00 a pound, Travis took home more than $16,000 in prize money. The owner drove 35 hours with this monster pumpkin strapped in the back of his pickup truck. Can you imagine driving alongside that thing on the freeway?</s>ROMANS: I can't imagine getting that thing in the pickup truck, let alone driving by it. All right, well done for Travis and his pumpkin. The Billboard Music Awards, last night, belonged to Post Malone. He came into the show the biggest nominee and left the biggest winner. He took home the Top Artist prize, one of nine awards overall. Korean pop band BTS won Top Social Artist for the fourth year in a row. They performed their hit "Dynamite" alongside a virtual band. Billie Eilish keeps racking up the awards. The 18-year-old singer won Best Female Artist. But the most poignant moment of the night came from John Legend.</s>JOHN LEGEND, SINGER-SONGWRITER: Singing "Never Break."</s>ROMANS: Legend giving this emotional performance two weeks after he and his wife announced they suffered a pregnancy loss. Before he began singing, he dedicated the ballad called "Never Break" to Chrissy Teigen. Oh, what a --</s>SANCHEZ: I get goose bumps hearing that.</s>ROMANS: -- beautiful -- he is -- he is such a star and they're such a great couple to share their story for so many other people, you know, who go through such hardship. All right, 54 minutes past the hour. That's it for us today. Thanks for joining us. I'm Christine Romans.</s>SANCHEZ: And I'm Boris Sanchez in for Laura Jarrett. "NEW DAY" starts right now.</s>LEGEND: Singing "Never Break."

Chris Christie: "I was Wrong not to Wear a Mask" at WH; Trump Falsely Claims 85 percent of People Wearing Mark "Catch" Virus

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WOLFBLITZER. Tweet the show @CNNSITROOM. Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.</s>ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next breaking news, Chris Christie, a top Trump ally, who spent seven days in the hospital with coronavirus after being in a closed room with the President with a sharp rebuke of the President tonight. Says he was wrong to think he was safe at the White House and wrong not to wear a mask. Plus, Trump and Biden in dueling town halls as Kamala Harris cancels campaign travel due to coronavirus cases and her inner circle will talk to both campaigns about what's ahead tonight. And clash in California, the Republican Party defying a state order to take down unauthorized ballot drop boxes. The man they're defying is my guess. What's he going to do next? Let's go OUTFRONT. And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT this evening the breaking news a top Trump advisor with a blistering takedown of Trump's handling of Coronavirus. Chris Christie speaking out finally. He contracted coronavirus after spending hours in debate prep with the President and his team. Almost everyone in that room got it. Christie spent a week in the hospital and has gotten out, now releasing a statement saying, "I believed when I entered the White House grounds, that I had entered a safe zone, due to the testing that I and many others underwent every day. I was wrong." "I was wrong not to wear a mask at the Amy Coney Barrett announcement, and I was wrong not to wear a mask at my multiple debate prep sessions with the President and the rest of the team. I hope that my experience shows my fellow citizens that you should follow CDC guidelines in public no matter where you are and wear a mask to protect yourself and others." It's a damning statement. And Chris Christie, again, I want to emphasize he spent seven days in the hospital with coronavirus. He now knows firsthand how serious the virus is and what he's saying is the opposite, of course, of what we have heard day in and day out from this president, coming out, walking up those White House stairs, whipping off his mask. The first thing he did when he came out to the public was whip off the mask and then here, he is today.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Did you see in CDC that 85 percent of the people wearing the mask catch it.</s>BURNETT: OK, that is completely and utterly false. That is not what the CDC said. We'll explain in a moment. But this complete lie about masks has deadly consequences, at a time when Americans need the truth more than ever. And by the way, we've been saying this again and again, but now just a little bit more of what Chris Christie said in the statement when we get to the word truth. He says, "I believe we have not treated Americans as adults, who understand truth, sacrifice and responsibility." Here is the truth tonight, 35 states now going in the wrong direction with an increase in cases. Nearly a thousand Americans died from coronavirus yesterday, unabated about a thousand deaths a day in this country, right now hospitalizations in this country at the highest since August. And what is the leader of the United States doing to address a situation that is now, yet again, worsening day by day? He today chose to attack Dr. Anthony Fauci.</s>TRUMP: And yes, my friend, and he's a nice guy, Tony, Tony Fauci, he's a nice guy. He's a nice guy, so I keep him around. We'll keep him around. He's a Democrat. Everybody knows that. He's Cuomo's friend.</s>BURNETT: OK. Let's just be clear here. That was done to demean Fauci. "Oh, he's a Democrat." So everything he's saying, when he's telling you things like wear a mask, this is serious, this is deadly, it's because he's a Democrat. Let's be clear. Fauci has served under six presidents starting with Ronald Reagan. He was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by the former President George W. Bush. And as a matter of fact, Fauci is not registered with either party. Now, I say that just because he's confirmed that but even if he were, it wouldn't matter. He's been saying what he said based upon the science. He has made it clear again and again that that is what this is about.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I have been in the public health arena and advising six administrations for the last - I've been doing this for the last five decades in public service. I have never ever either indirectly or directly endorsed a political candidate. I want to stay completely apolitical and stay as a scientist, a physician and a public health person.</s>BURNETT: Trump lashing out at one of the most trusted Americans when it comes to coronavirus. This paper by the President at such a crucial time explains why Republicans are speaking out. People like Chris Christie. And want to emphasize, Chris Christie is the most senior person in the Republican Party who is in that debate room with the President, preparing him for that debate. Republicans like him and like Sen. Ben Sasse and this is Ben sasse here on tape. We actually have the tape for you talking about Trump to his constituents, Republican-sitting senator.</s>SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): First he ignored COVID. And then he went into full economic shutdown mode. He was the one who said 10 to 14 days of shutdown would fix this, and that was always wrong. And so, I don't think the way he's led through COVID has been reasonable or responsible or right.</s>BURNETT: "I don't think the way he's led through COVID has been reasonable or responsible or right." Republican Senator, Ben Sasse. Kaitlan Collins is OUTFRONT live outside the White House. And Kaitlan, this is stinging criticism from the President's own party.</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erin. And Ben Sasse has been a periodic critic of the President's, but this is something else. Because also in that audio he says that the President treated the pandemic like it was a new cycle that he was covering and not a multi-year public health crisis, which is what, of course, Ben Sasse identifies it as during this call. We should note his spokesperson just told our health team was with 17,000 constituents. It wasn't exactly this private phone call that he was trying to keep secret. This is pretty public criticism, but it also comes as Dr. Fauci has been pushing back on the President saying that his rallies, it speaks for themselves what the public health risk is by having a lot of people gather with no mask and no social distancing at these rallies. Very few people wearing masks, we should note. And of course, you saw the President going after Dr. Fauci today who - we checked the D.C. voter registration records, Dr. Fauci is registered as a voter but he is not registered to any party. And, of course, as you noted, he's served under presidents from both sides of the aisle. But then we've also got Chris Christie tonight coming out with this statement saying basically that he was lulled into a false sense of security coming here to the White House and doing those debate prep sessions with the President. Thinking everyone had been tested when, of course, now we even have the President himself admitting today he was not tested on a daily basis like his aides were telling us for months that he was not only tested every day, but also tested multiple times a day according to Kayleigh McEnany. So you've really just got this round the clock criticism of the President and his handling of coronavirus, specifically coming from all sides. And so this is something he's going to be pressed on by voters in this town hall. So it'll be interesting to see how the President himself handles that question when it's not coming from someone in the media that he can demonize, but from a voter who's genuinely concerned about their way of life.</s>BURNETT: All right. Kaitlan, thank you very much. And I want to go now to Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Dr. Jonathan Reiner, Director of the Cardiac Cath Lab at GW. And as I was talking about President George W. Bush, the honor that he bestowed upon Dr. Fauci, you were there advising the medical team during the George W. Bush presidency. So Sanjay, let me just start with Chris Christie. He was in the hospital for seven days, contracted coronavirus it appears, whether it was in that room with the President during debate prep or at the Amy Coney Barrett, somewhere in there. I want to just read more of what he said. He said, "It's something to take very seriously. The ramifications are wildly random and potentially deadly. No one should be happy to get the virus and no one should be cavalier about being infected or infecting others." And he said wear a mask, he was wrong. I just want to be clear, when you talk about people who are being cavalier about being infected or infecting others and not wearing masks, and not admitting they were wrong, well, that's Trump. I mean, he's just come out here with a statement and said the exact opposite of the President.</s>DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, it's pretty clear. He talked about that meeting he had at the White House, there was a likelihood of spread. Obviously, we knew there was a lot of viral spread at the White House around that time. I mean, there's two things that struck me I'm sure probably struck Jonathan as well. First of all, it apparently takes people getting really sick and having a firsthand sort of confrontation with this virus sometimes to say what many people we've been saying for months now. And this is not a virus you want, it can cause all of these ramifications. We know how many people have already died. But that seems to be the situation sometimes. People have to be confronted with their own mortality in some ways to take this seriously. So I'm glad he's saying it. I wish that he'd been saying it before and it does make the case that even with the testing and all of those things unless you follow the basic public health practices, testing doesn't prevent you from getting infected. It obviously it determines it after the fact. So he's making all of these points that we've been talking about for some time.</s>BURNETT: Yes. And Dr. Reiner, Christie, as I emphasized he's sitting there with Trump in that debate prep room. He's the most visible, the big name in there. He helped him with his debate prep. And now he says this and this is damning. And he says it was just over two weeks until Election Day. And by the way, when he came out of the hospital he said, "You're going to hear from me in a few days." He put a lot of time and thought into this. There isn't a single word in here that wasn't very carefully thought through.</s>JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes. He seems to me to be two things. One, humbled as any person who spends a week in an ICU would be and angry that he was put in the ICU because of the lacks, precautions at the White House. He seem angry and humbled. Look, I'm glad to see it. But the other important issue is that he issued the kind of statement about masks that we all hoped the President would issue from his suite at Walter Reed. The kind of humbled grateful to be alive, let me tell my fellow Americans how they can prevent this from happening to themselves. Except that's not what the President did. He mused about maybe coming out and showing a superman T-shirt under his jacket. So I'm grateful for Gov. Christie for using his experience for the public good. I wish we had heard it from the President of the United States.</s>BURNETT: Right. I mean, Christie couldn't have been more clear. "I was wrong. I was wrong to not wear a mask. President of the United States got out of Walter Reed, walked up the stairs of the White House and ripped his mask off for the public. I mean, it is an incredibly stark distinction. Sanjay, now the President also and I said I would get more on this. I want to give you a chance to explain it. He said there's a CDC study that says 85 percent of people who wear a mask catch the virus? That is not true. What does the CDC say?</s>GUPTA: The CDC, the study that they're talking about here was basically looking at where are people most likely to catch the virus, what sorts of situations. That wasn't designed to find whether or not a certain percentage of people who are wearing masks are more likely to become infected or not. It was interesting, because what they were looking at specifically were are there certain situations like restaurants or bars that might make you more likely to get infected. And they found, for example, in this study people who were infected were twice as likely to have eaten at one of these places or visited a bar or coffee shop. So it had nothing really to do with that. What is interesting, I think, is that overall across the country, mask adherence is probably around 50 percent, 55 percent, depending on some of these models. So here people are self-reporting, do you wear a mask they are asked, and what you find is that the numbers that people typically give about 70 percent of them say that they wear a mask regularly, another 10 percent to 15 percent say they wear it sometimes. That's generally what people are saying, but that's obviously not the case. We know masks are designed to try and protect others from the mask wearer who may potentially be infected. So the real question would have been if you want to answer this question is how likely were you to be around people who are wearing masks, if you're trying to get the benefit of masks, that's the question should have been asked, that wasn't even part of the study.</s>BURNETT: Right, which is crucial. And by the way, I think a lot of people think that wearing a mask is OK if other people aren't around them. They don't understand at all that what you just said, it prevents people from getting it from them, not so much inbound. Dr. Reiner quickly on Dr. Fauci, the President obviously has attacked him repeatedly now calling him a Democrat. He isn't a Democrat although as I made the point, I don't think that that's relevant. What does this mean, Trump's push to just keep diminishing and make Fauci look political. It does have serious consequences.</s>REINER: It does, but he's not running against Tony Fauci. He's running against Joe Biden. Look, Tony Fauci is not the person who said he didn't see himself wearing a mask around the White House or who said that he didn't need to wear a mask because he was tested every day, which turned out to be a lie or who blocked the Postal Service from sending three quarters of a billion masks to every household in the United States or the person who blocked the CDC plan to require masks on public transport or the person to hold unmask gatherings every day now. He's not that person. He shouldn't worry about Tony Fauci. He should listen to Tony Fauci.</s>BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much. And next, the stages are set and right now Americans standing by to watch. Trump and Biden about to participate in dueling town halls live tonight. Both campaigns standing by to tell you what they're ready to do. Plus, Trump's message to suburban women.</s>TRUMP: The American dream it is, I let you have the American dream.</s>BURNETT: Is that working? John King at the magic wall to show you. And California's Republican Party defying a state border to remove unofficial mail ballot drop boxes. So then what's going to happen? I'm going to ask the State Attorney General.

Rep. Cedric Richmond (D-LA) Discusses About the Biden-Harris Campaign; Trump & Biden About to Take Part in Dueling Town Halls; Kamala Harris off the Trail After Aide Test Positive

BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden about to face voters in dueling town halls. Now the events are taking place on different networks but at the same time. So this was supposed to be the second night, I'm sorry, the night of their second debate. So we were all supposed to be able to watch them in one place, but now two separate places same time. It comes as we learned Biden's running mate, Sen. Harris, is now off the campaign trail after two people including her communications director tested positive for coronavirus. We're going to talk to both campaigns about this unprecedented and crucial night. I want to start with Democratic Congressman Cedric Richmond who is the national co-chair of the Biden campaign. Congressman Richmond, let me start with that news that I just shared. Sen. Harris suspending travel now until Sunday, she was going to be traveling in this window North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, all of them crucial states, we're 19 days away from election day. And obviously now with her communication director having coronavirus, how big of a concern is that and how much of a disadvantage is now having to stay home?</s>REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D-LA): Well, look, the campaign is very nimble. And we've learned to campaign during these different times that we're in. And look, Sen. Harris is fine. We're praying for her, but we're praying for all of the families that have suffered a loss because of coronavirus, lost wages, or have been infected themselves. But I will tell you this, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, they care more about the American people. They care about the janitors that clean up the auditoriums after they have an event. They care about the people who are there waiting on them. And so they're going to make sure they follow the doctor's orders and not even take a chance on contracting it but also passing it along to others because this is about us, not just Joe Biden or Kamala Harris.</s>BURNETT: So Biden and Trump are getting ready moments away here from these town halls. It's fair to assume because they're on at the same time, that you're going to Biden supporters watching Biden, Trump supporters watching Trump, that this is maybe perhaps more of a set of turnout town halls than it is trying to sway the miniscule number of undecided Americans. Who is Biden trying to reach tonight?</s>RICHMOND: Well, I think the Vice President is making his closing argument that it's the incompetence of the Trump administration that caused us to lose over 215,000 people, for over 7 million people to be infected, almost 40 million people to have to file unemployment claims. For us to go through this pain as a country, it's because of his incompetence and he is the first president in 90 years to lose jobs on his watch. Barack Obama and Joe Biden created 16 million jobs. Donald Trump lost 4 million and he claims that he's directing a great economy. It's just not true. So you'll hear facts from Joe Biden, you'll hear lies from Donald Trump on another network.</s>BURNETT: So the Supreme Court is going to be one of the topics, I'm sure. Now, President Trump has suggested, again, that Biden would pack the courts with liberal judges if he's elected. And Biden has dodged this question. He said, he's not a fan of court packing, but he has not come out and said what he will do. He's not announced his position, he said until after the election to the great dismay of many on the left of your party. Is that enough for people who are voting right now?</s>RICHMOND: Yes, it's enough. He has not dodged the question. What he has said is he's not going to answer the question and I think that that is a difference. But if you're talking about court packing, court packing is when you rush through unqualified judges, 50 judges on the circuit court and you put not one African-American on the circuit court and all of a sudden you want to pretend that you care about poor people, minorities, because you're not showing those people what you do. And so without showing that you respect black intellectual capacity, then you can't tell us that you also care about our welfare. And so look, we will answer that question at the appropriate time. But the real thing is, we should not confirm a justice with 19 days to go before an election and I believe the majority of the people in the country agree with that position.</s>BURNETT: Congressman, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.</s>RICHMOND: Thank you for having me.</s>BURNETT: And I want to turn now Tim Murtaugh. He is Communications Director for the Trump campaign. And Tim, I appreciate you coming back on. So I just want to start with Chris Christie.</s>TIM MURTAUGH, TRUMP CAMPAIGN COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: It's good to be on.</s>BURNETT: So he comes out with this statement after seven days in the ICU. He says he was wrong not to wear a mask at the Amy Coney Barrett announcement and debate prep sessions. Very clear he said I was wrong. I was wrong. He says, "I believed when I entered the White House grounds, that I had entered a safe zone, due to the testing that I and many others underwent every day. I was wrong. I was wrong not to wear a mask at the Amy Coney Barrett announcement and I was wrong not to wear a mask at my multiple debate prep sessions with the President and the rest of the team." We have heard no such thing, of course, from the President of the United States. Why? What do you say to Christie?</s>MURTAUGH: First, I'll answer that question just one second, I want to bring your attention to something that Congressman Richmond just said where he said that Joe Biden hasn't dodged the question about court packing. He just hasn't answered it, which is ridiculous. And he also misdefined court packing. Court packing is when you add more justices to the court to expand the size of the court.</s>BURNETT: Yes.</s>MURTAUGH: To pre guarantee outcomes of future cases. I just want to be clear that Congressman Richmond gave the wrong definition of court packing.</s>BURNETT: Yes, that is the definition of the term. Yes.</s>MURTAUGH: OK, thanks. So the President has always made clear that people should wear masks. He has said that it is patriotic to wear a mask. He also has said that it's very important that people take precautions and be safe. But he also doesn't want us to get to a point in this country where we go back to another society wide shutdown like Joe Biden said that he would consider if he were president.</s>BURNETT: If the scientists recommended it.</s>MURTAUGH: Another thing that's important to bring up in all this and the President has recommended it as well. The another thing to get to that's very important here is that the President is on a record pace with all of the scientists that are involved with this and the FDA in producing this life-saving vaccine. In record time, this is going to save millions of American lives when it is safely and effectively distributed to Americans, hundreds of millions of doses. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have spent a lot of time trying to scare people away from the vaccine. Their anti-vaccine rhetoric is actually very reckless and is playing politics with people's lives.</s>BURNETT: Well, Sen. Harris did say early in the debate, she'd be the first to line up to take it Dr. Fauci said to take it.</s>MURTAUGH: Yes, but in the next breath they attack the President and they say, but if Donald Trump had the vaccine then I wouldn't take it. That is a very clever way of saying both things at once but leaving doubt in people's mind. They're playing politics with the vaccine there's no way to avoid that.</s>BURNETT: And part of the reason that exist, let me just ask, Tim, because it comes back to what Christie had to say and also Ben Sasse today. It comes back to how the President has led on this, Christie goes on to say, "I believe we have not treated Americans as adults, who understand truth, sacrifice and responsibility that I know them to be." Ben Sasse on a call with thousands of constituents says, "Of the President of the United States, I don't think the way he's led through COVID has been reasonable or responsible or right." This is pretty damning because it's coming from your own party and Chris Christie was in the debate room with the President. There's no one who has been more central to his debate prep his reelection than Christie.</s>MURTAUGH: Treating Americans as adults is exactly the President's approach, Erin. The President wants people to be safe, to wear masks, to socially distance, to use hand sanitizer, to wash their hands all the time. But we also know that people in this country have the right to make their own choices, absolutely. We also know that Joe Biden to this day cannot say that he would do anything differently than President Trump has done in fighting the coronavirus except for the loan thing that we know that Joe Biden would not have restricted travel from China as President Trump did at the end of January and that saved thousands of American lives. And we know that Joe Biden would not have done that and if Joe Biden had been president in January, we as a country would be in far worse position today than we actually are and it is thanks to President Trump's leadership.</s>BURNETT: Tim?</s>MURTAUGH: Remember, the initial estimates were over 2 million people dead. The President has led on this issue. He has marshaled the private sector and the federal government. He has done an admirable job and we know Joe Biden has done nothing but sit on the sidelines and make it into one big political issue.</s>BURNETT: Tim, I will just say one thing and I understand you got to play the card your hands you dealt here. But to say that the President encourages people to wear masks and says it's patriotic because he said at one time.</s>MURTAUGH: Well, he does.</s>BURNETT: When he comes out of the hospital, walks up the steps to the White House and rips his mask off. When Chris Christie gets to the hospital after seven days in the ICU, he says, "I was wrong. I learned ...</s>MURTAUGH: See, again, when do you want to pay attention to CDC guidelines, Erin?</s>BURNETT: to say that those two things are not in stark contrast ...</s>MURTAUGH: The President was outside on a balcony, outside on a balcony, those CDC guidelines don't have any restrictions on wearing a mask outside when you're standing on your own balcony. And also the President wants to send the message to the American people we're in the fight, yes.</s>BURNETT: He had coronavirus. He had the eyes of the world on him.</s>MURTAUGH: He has ...</s>BURNETT: Tim, you can talk over me all you want, this is one of these objective things that what he did at that moment was awful. And it was inappropriate and it was irresponsible.</s>MURTAUGH: No.</s>BURNETT: And that is why people like Chris Christie and Ben Sasse say what they say, period.</s>MURTAUGH: Erin, Erin, the President personifies this fight against the coronavirus. He personifies it. He has firsthand personal experience with it.</s>BURNETT: His personification is that he did not wear a mask.</s>MURTAUGH: He is telling the American people that we will not be beaten by the coronavirus, that's his message. We will not be beaten, we will fight this.</s>BURNETT: Well, thousand more people died today.</s>MURTAUGH: And we will not be driven back in our basements by it.</s>BURNETT: Thousand more people died today. OK. Thank you, Tim. And next, former President Obama has a new message tonight for the early voters who are turning out in droves and waiting hours to cast their ballots. John King is at the magic wall. And a stunning attack against the President by a Republican senator.</s>SASSE: His family has treated the presidency like a business opportunity. He's flirted with white supremacists.

Trump Ally and GOP Sen. Rebuke Trump's Coronavirus Response; Obama Urges Voters to "Keep Making Your Voices Heard" Despite Long Voting Lines: "Our Democracy Depends On It"; Trump Falsely Claims Votes for Him Are Being Thrown Out, Won't Commit to Peaceful Transfer of Power If He Loses.

BURNETT: Breaking news. President Obama telling voters to be patient amid historic turnout and what are very long lines to vote already. He tweets, quote: Nobody should have to wait 11 hours to vote, but we're all grateful that you and those in line with you stuck it out. Keep making your voices heard, everybody. Our democracy depends on it. Those lines, like those you see in North Carolina, on your screen, nearly 230,000 votes cast as of 5:30 p.m. tonight on the first day of early voting. This as President Trump makes another plea to win over suburban women. It's been a crucial demographic he's pushed for, speaking to them during a rally in the key swing state.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The radical Democrats will confiscate your guns, destroy your suburbs. I keep hearing about the suburban women.</s>BURNETT: The polls, though, show major warning signs for Trump with women. Chief national correspondent and the host of "INSIDE POLITICS", John King, is</s>OUTFRONT. JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, Joe Biden's lead looks overwhelming, as you enter the final days. When you look deep into the numbers, two things stand out. Number one, stability. Joe Biden has led and for a long time. Number two, a giant gender gap. If this map holds up and Joe Biden becomes president, he will have women voters to thank. Let's walk through the numbers to look at. First, it's just the stability of the race. 2016 was volatile, Clinton and Trump jumping all over the place. This race has been steady, all year long. These are NBC numbers. Joe Biden led in January, he leads now in October and he leads by double digits now and it stretched out from the middle of the year to now. Joe Biden with the lead. What is powering that lead? Women. Yes, always a Democratic constituency. But look, this goes back to July. Joe Biden with a steady gender gap. It is growing as we get closer to Election Day. Joe Biden's support with women as we get closer to Election Day. Now, we know this matters for Democrats and we know the size of the gender gap is a big deal. Hillary Clinton had a big gender gap in 2016. She won among women by 13 points over President Trump, won the national vote, lost the Electoral College, 13. It was 19 points in 2018, that's Democrats voting in House elections. Democrats had a 19-point advantage for women. That is the single biggest reason Nancy Pelosi became speaker of the House. Now, look at this, 26 points is Joe Biden's lead among women in that new NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll heading into the final stretch. Now, some Republicans will say Hillary Clinton had a gender gap back in 2016, and look, the president won. And that is true. So let's bring that up and show it to you. Hillary Clinton did have a big gender gap. She won the facial women's vote by 13 points over President Trump. She won among women by seven points in North Carolina. Pennsylvania, it was 13, Florida, 4, Arizona, 4, Michigan, 11, Wisconsin, 10. Hillary Clinton wins among women in all of those states. Guess what? She lost all of those states. All of those states went to Trump. So Republicans say so what, Joe Biden has a gender gap too that we can beat. Look at the difference between 2016 and 2020. Nationally, it was 13 points for Hillary Clinton. Joe Biden's gender gap is twice that right now. North Carolina was 7, 13 points right now. Pennsylvania 13, 15 right now. That's the only one that's even close to the same. Florida, Hillary Clinton won with women by four points, 14 points is Joe Biden's lead. In Arizona, four points for Clinton, 18 points for Joe Biden. In Michigan, 11, it's up to 17. Wisconsin was 10 points for Clinton among women. Joe Biden has a 24- point lead among women in Wisconsin. So Democrats look at that map and say if that gender gap holds up, this will disappear and we'll get to this and maybe each more, because Joe Biden is in play in Florida and North Carolina. Women, the single biggest driving force in American politics. Women, Erin, the reason Joe Biden is winning heading into the stretch.</s>BURNETT: Wow. And you see those huge increases in Wisconsin stands out there, John. OK. So, let's go now to our political correspondent Abby Phillip, along with chief Washington correspondent for "Politico", Ryan Lizza. OK. Thanks to both. So, Ryan, you see John lay it out. Hillary Clinton wins women voters by 13 points. Not enough to get the Electoral College. And, of course, it all depends where these votes are. But Joe Biden right now is a much more significant margin, 26 points, and that holds in the swing states. Pennsylvania was the only one that looked about the same, right? All those other ones, wow, four times Clinton's edge in Arizona, more than triple than what she had in the state of Florida. You were at the Trump rally in Pennsylvania where it's closed. That's where he asks suburban women will you please like me. Is that resonating more there?</s>RYAN LIZZA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I've never seen -- that doesn't sound like a winning message, just will you like me? Most voters want results, and the issue that is driving those numbers down is his handling of the pandemic. And it's difficult to see what he can do between now and Election Day to, you know, emerge -- to do better on that issue. I think the question is, is this election more like 2016 or 2018, right? Not a lot has changed in these numbers from 2018, right? That was the election as John pointed out that handed Nancy Pelosi the House of Representatives. It looks a lot like that. Republicans are struggling in exactly the same way from the beginning of the Biden campaign, they have taken the lessons of 2018 and been driving the same messaging and demographic goals. And Trump has just not been able to dig out from the deficit he's found himself in for the last two years.</s>BURNETT: So, Abby, you know, this comes as you have Trump being slammed by Governor Christie and also Republican Senator Ben Sasse. "The Washington Examiner" obtaining this audio of a call he had with voters. Now, Kaitlan pointed out there were tens of thousands of people that could listen to this call. So, Sasse is not speaking thinking that it would remain a secret, but it is damning, you know, calling him on coronavirus irresponsible and unreasonable, and then here's another part of the call, Sasse talking about Trump.</s>SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): The way he kisses dictator's butts. I mean, the way he ignores the Uighurs who are in literal concentration camps in Xinjiang right now. He hasn't lifted a finger on behalf of the Hong Kongers. The United States regularly sells out our allies under his leadership, the way he treats women and spends like a drunken sailor. The way -- I criticized President Obama for that kind of spending. I criticize President Trump for as well. He mocks evangelicals behind closed doors. His family has treated the presidency like a business opportunity. He's flirted with white supremacists.</s>BURNETT: I mean, Abby, it just went on and on. Now, Sasse is a Republican, he's criticized the president in many ways other Republicans haven't, you know? But he stuck with him through impeachment. Does Sasse speaking out like this say something?</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's a reflection partly of Sasse no longer having to deal with a Republican primary. That's the first thing. But I think you're going to see more Republicans perhaps behind the scenes wanting to figure out ways of distancing themselves safely from President Trump. I don't think you're going to see them doing it quite the way that Sasse is doing here, because basically if you listened to this -- this commentary, you might as well be listening to a Joe Biden campaign ad. I mean, this is exactly the same thing that you would hear on the Democratic side. Republicans in tight races and in tough re-election battles are going to have a much more tailored or narrow path to distance themselves from Trump just enough on specific things, especially the coronavirus response. But not so much that they kind of raise up sort of, you know, a pro Trump, you know, supporters who are so loyal to the president that they won't support someone who is viewed as an enemy of the president. So, look, Ben Sasse is in a bit of a situation, but, yeah, with the numbers the president is showing nationally among women, among seniors, you're going to see more Republicans trying to do that really delicate dance to get away just enough so they can survive this November.</s>BURNETT: Right. And, of course, Ryan, you could see some right before the end if they see the polls -- really, you know, if they feel confident, they're going to try to jump ship so they can say they did it before he lost. We can all think of several names he could be on that list.</s>LIZZA: Yeah.</s>BURNETT: But Senator Sasse went on and said something really important, Ryan, which is he thinks President Trump is going to have a long lasting and negative impact on the entire Republican Party. Here's Sasse.</s>SASSE: In my dissents from President Trump are not only about policy, but it's also a prudential question, or political question about whether or not he's ultimately driving the country further to the left. Because that's what I think is ultimately going to happen because of Donald Trump. This has been my fear for five years. That's why I campaigned for everybody not named Trump in 2016. Donald Trump didn't win the presidency because America actually wants more reality TV around the clock stupid political obsessions. I just don't think that's what my neighbors want. It's not what I hear when I travel the state.</s>BURNETT: Ryan?</s>LIZZA: These were considered remarks, as you point out, Erin. These were not straight remarks. Sasse has been a barometer about how safe it is for Republicans to criticize President Trump. Early on, he hit him hard when Trump got really popular and Sasse was worried about his re-election, he retreated. Now the writing is on the wall, he sees the polls. Trump is likely to lose this election and he's coming out much more forcefully with his criticism, and it's a harbinger of the post-Trump debate in the Republican Party.</s>BURNETT: Yeah. All right. Thank you both very much. And coming up on CNN after the town hall, Kamala Harris will join Don Lemon on "CNN TONIGHT". And that is starting at 10:00 Eastern. Don't miss it. Next, President Trump doubling down, refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not saying anything. I'm saying this -- I think everybody says it -- you have to have a fair election.</s>BURNETT: Plus, older Americans, they were key to Trump's victory four years ago. But his handling of coronavirus is putting that support in jeopardy this time around.

Stocks Suffer Amid the U.S. Stimulus Standoff; President Trump and Joe Biden to Compete in Rival Town Halls

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need to know. Plug pulled. Stocks suffer amid the U.S. stimulus standoff. Debate duel-ish. President Trump and Joe Biden to compete in rival Town Halls. Trick bots takedown. Microsoft discusses its cybersecurity efforts to protect election integrity. And -- [VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]</s>CHATTERLEY: It's certainly dynamite. The BTS management IPO sets the market alight. It's Thursday. Let's make a move. And the warm welcome to another busy hour here on FIRST MOVE. Coming up, as I mentioned, the tech giant Microsoft will be discussing the exploding ransomware threat and the concerns about election integrity and their efforts to tackle so-called trick bots, appropriate for this time of year. But certainly, it's all tricks and no treats. Plus a dining out dilemma as winter approaches in the United States and across Europe and COVID cases rise. We'll be speaking to a successful restaurant owner about both the challenges and the lack of U.S. government support -- all of those issues front and center for global investors. The handover, as you can see from Europe, clearly weaker after various restrictions were announced in France, in Germany and in the U.K., all of the details on that coming up. For now though, let's take a look at futures as well. As you can see, set to fall more than one percent -- one and a half percent in the case of the tech heavy NASDAQ. There remains, I think little hope now of financial aid coming before November 3rd. The Treasury Secretary said negotiations will continue, but so does the blame game over the lack of agreement between the two sides and of course workers suffer as a result. Almost 900,000 new applicants sought first time benefits in the past week here in the United States, over 25 million workers continue to receive some form of government support. Wow. Asia stocks meanwhile losing altitude Thursday, too, meet new U.S.-China tensions. Reuters reporting that the White House may add Chinese Fintech giant and financial to their trade blacklist ahead of the company's upcoming IPO launch. That said, China did successfully sell some $600 billion worth of debt largely to U.S. institutional investors today, a message about the global hunt for high returns, I think, but perhaps a relative vote of confidence in Beijing's ability to fight the virus and contain the economic fallout. The contrast could not be more clear. Let's get to the drivers. Christine Romans joins us now. Christine, we were hoping for a slightly better number for these first time jobless claims. And actually, it was a slightly worse number than expected and I have to say you and I have been expecting this in light of the lack of support for small businesses in particular.</s>CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, it's unwelcome, but not super surprising. You and I, every week really talk about how the job recovery of the summer stagnated and is stagnating, and probably the best of the hiring was back in August, and now without the shock absorber, without the stimulus for the economy, you're seeing layoffs pick up again. Eight hundred ninety eight thousand in normal times would be just an unheard of number. Now, we have 30 weeks of historic high unemployment claims and you add in the pandemic programs. That's another 370 some thousands, so more than a million people for the first time filing for unemployment benefits. The continuing claims came down a little bit, I'm glad to see that. Honestly, that's -- to have that around 10 million again, in normal times, it would be unheard of. But to have that sort of trending lower, that means that people who are long term unemployed, that situation might be improving slightly or less terrible than it was a week ago. But still, with COVID cases rising, a jobs recovery apparently faltering and no help from Congress, this is a pretty miserable place to be if you're in the job market or out of work in the job market right now.</s>CHATTERLEY: Yes, we have to choose our phraseology carefully, don't we? Less terrible. I think we're going to go with that because an improvement is one thing, but when you're looking at the baseline here, it's pretty shocking and it remains so. Christine, I just think we've all got so complacent. Lawmakers have gotten complacent throughout the summer that we've managed to see a bounce back from the lows. We're still looking at a situation where we're not going to be able to agree because the politics is being put before the people, and the likelihood is these numbers get worse, and they get worse towards the back end of the year, as we head into winter and COVID cases rise.</s>CHATTERLEY: I would agree. I mean, and I also think -- we've talked a lot about the shape of the recovery, I think there are some industries and some people who are getting back to work, who are actually thriving actually in the labor market right now, and those are people who don't work in these frontline businesses. They don't work for restaurants, or hotels or bars, or, you know, customer facing kinds of jobs. So you have like a bifurcated labor market and a lot of pain is being had by people who may not have the elites in Washington, don't have close contact with it. You know, I'm just wondering how much out of touch Washington is to how deep the pain is on Main Street here, you know, the stock market has recovered. You know, you hear some people talk about how the bounce back was better than we thought, it wasn't as bad as we feared. Well, that may be true, but the collateral damage here is millions of people who have lost their livelihoods or lost income, and we are heading into a really tough, really tough part of the calendar.</s>CHATTERLEY: We're going to talk about that later on in the show with a restauranteur who did specifically that: galvanized lots of restaurant owners, because they simply didn't feel they had the lobby power in Washington to defend them in these negotiations, and it's such a great point. The contrast with like the airlines, for example, who clearly are still suffering, too. Christine Romans, thank you. All right, President Trump and Democratic challenger, Joe Biden will both take questions from voters tonight. Instead of facing off in their second debate, there'll be holding separate Town Halls at the very same time. Joe Johns is at the White House and has been looking at this -- all about this -- Joe, get my words out. The phrase "preaching to the choir" actually comes to mind here, because you're going to have supporters of each person and party watching the respective ones. I just wonder if anybody benefits -- Joe.</s>JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, that's the criticism too, because what we've got here is dueling Town Halls that are arranged in different cities. The President of the United States down in Miami; the challenger, Vice President, former Vice President Joe Biden, closer to Washington, D.C. over in Philadelphia. They will be on different networks, and the criticism is that the networks could have coordinated this better so that these two very important television events weren't held at the same time. That's one of the biggest issues. You're going to hold this thing at the same time so people don't have the opportunity to watch both events live as they happen. And there's a reason for that, because obviously, the networks we're trying to work around these candidates very busy schedules at the end of the campaigns, and fit them into their evening programs. And there's a lot of back and forth on that. The problem with it, of course, is that a lot of people say it sort of plays right into the hands of President Trump because what President Trump is going to get on NBC is simulcast on three networks, NBC, MSNBC, CNBC, which naturally means larger ratings at a time when he is going head to head against Joe Biden. The President loves to brag about his ratings. And from a campaign point of view, at this stage in the race with the President down in the polls, generally or tied with Joe Biden in many states, what that campaign wants most is to get eyes on the candidate, eyes on the President. So in that way, it's a big issue. And never mind, the fact that this was supposed to be Debate Night in America and we didn't get that because the Debate Commission said essentially, that the President was going to have to participate in a virtual debate because of COVID concerns, and the President backed out. So that's all the background -- Julia.</s>CHATTERLEY: Yes. It's interesting, isn't it? One wonders whether the Commission made that decision a little bit too early, because in light of the test results that we've had, subsequently, perhaps that debate could have gone ahead. But yes, you need a bit of a runway here to make these decisions. My recommendation is, you know, social media and mobile phones one can watch right debates at the same time. The joys of modern technology.</s>JOHNS: Yes, that's absolutely right. Very important to say that. I mean, you can afford this thing. You can look at it on the internet. It's not like 20 years ago when you didn't have other options to reach right back in and catch what you missed.</s>CHATTERLEY: A hundred percent there are options here. You do not have to choose. Joe Johns in Washington for is there. Thank you, sir.</s>CHATTERLEY: All right, so let's move on. BTS, one of the world's most popular boy bands grabbing the spotlight and this time it's in the stock market. Shares of Big Hit Entertainment, the management company behind the K-pop sensation soared 90 percent on the first day of trading in South Korea. Paula Hancocks is in Seoul for us with all the details.</s>PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Everything this band touches seems to turn to gold. BTS is South Korea's most well- known boy band shooting to the top of the Billboard chart last month, a feat no other Korean artist has achieved.</s>JUNGKOOK, SINGER, BTS (through translator): It still doesn't feel 100 percent real, mostly because right now, we can't perform in front of people, in front of our fans.</s>HANCOCKS (voice over): The next chapter, IPO. BTS' management Big Hit Entertainment is listing the company on South Korea Stock Exchange, a move that values the company more than $4 billion, more than the next three top K-pop agencies combined. In today's strong market, some assume investors will flock to buy the shares including the band's hardcore fan base.</s>KIM EUN-HEE, BTS FAN (through translator): I'm eager to pick up one or two shares even if it's just one, so I pulled my money and plan to put in 150,000,000 won. I want to get closer to BTS as one team and help them.</s>HANCOCKS (voice over): Big deal for Big Hit. But some worry that they are too reliant on just one act.</s>PARK JU-GUN, BUSINESS ANALYST (through translator): Ninety percent of Big Hit Entertainment's revenue is from BTS, so the risk is there, but it has started to shift its revenue structure to a multifaceted portfolio.</s>HANCOCKS (voice over): Big Hit says it has created an ecosystem of artists, apps and content.</s>BANG SI-HYUK, CEO, BIG HIT ENTERTAINMENT (through translator): We drove profit not only through the album and music, but online concerts, official merchandise, multimedia content and more.</s>HANCOCKS (voice over): Military service looms for all seven members of the group, but they could use another international K-pop group, Big Bang, as a model, solo careers, some also questioned the timing of the IPO in the middle of a global pandemic, but the market sees it as a sign that the company can only go up as the world recovers.</s>JU-GUN (through translator): If the company is highly valued now in the midst of a pandemic, it will be an opportunity to gain even more momentum next year post pandemic.</s>HANCOCKS (voice over): In a rare move for the industry, Big Hit has given more than $7 million worth of shares to each member of the band, a share of the success and perhaps a guarantee for the future.</s>CHATTERLEY: Paula Hancocks joins us now. Paula, there is everything in this business story. There's politics, there's the money, there's the complication. Just to be clear, they've outsold more physical albums in the United States than Justin Bieber, Harry Styles, Billy Eilish, they are huge around the world. But talk us through some of these complications: military service, potentially, for some of these guys, and really soon.</s>HANCOCKS: Well, that's right, Julia. I mean, this is mandatory military service here in South Korea, every man does it unless they have a particular exemption or aren't able to, and it lasts about 18 months. So this is very close for some of these members of BTS. Just a couple of months away, it would be because the oldest is almost 28 years old, which is how far you can defer the military service. That one particular member has now, we hear joined a graduate school program, so he can defer it another year. But what is happening in this country now is politicians are now talking about this. Should they change the rules for BTS? Should they actually defer them going to military service for another two years, so that they can really enjoy their career? And of course, they are bringing a lot to South Korea as well, that the Culture Ministry here estimates that BTS has contributed about one and a half billion dollars to the South Korean economy with tourism, with promoting Korea, promoting Korean goods like food and cosmetics. So politicians are really thinking about it seriously, and there is potentially going to be a bill to try and push back the military service for them -- Julia.</s>CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, there are different ways that you can provide service to your country, and when you're bringing in those kind of revenues versus providing support in terms of a military service, one has to ask the question. But it's a huge issue as well, if somebody is investing in this stock when -- and you pointed this out in your report, when 90 percent of the sales of this management company come from one group. They need to diversify and they need to do it quickly.</s>HANCOCKS: Absolutely, and the company knows this. They've been quite honest about their saying that they are signing on more artists quite quickly. But of course, who knows if those artists are going to be successful. It's highly unlikely they will be as successful as BTS. So yes, BTS is a massive asset to big hits, because they wouldn't have had this IPO quite frankly, without them. But it is also a liability to have all of their eggs in one basket, but they say they're trying to diversify in different ways as well. Not just new artists, they have a platform for example called Weavers which they are giving exclusive content to fans of the particular bands that the fans can message particular artists, so they are trying to find different ways to make sure that they are not just reliant on one band. At this point, we know for the first half of this year there has been about 88 percent of their sales which have been attributed to BTS, so it's slightly less, but not really very much at all. So clearly, all their eggs are in one basket and they are aware of this, but they also see it is an asset and they're trying to diversify they say.</s>CHATTERLEY: Yes, these are some very sparkly eggs. I have to say, South Koreans, they are used to losing their stars to military service and them disappearing for a while, but here in the United States, if you're gone for a year or a year and a half, you are forgotten, so they need to think about this as well, their global audience. Paula, great to have you with us. Paula Hancocks there. All right, speaking of pops and K-pops, no pop in this bubble. Singapore and Hong Kong is setting up a travel bubble between the two cities. Visitors will need to provide a negative COVID test and travel on dedicated flights. Officials call the plan a significant first step in reviving air travel. Selina Wang joins us now from Hong Kong. This is exciting, Selina, and actually critical for two international regions. Talk us through what more we know.</s>SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, that's exactly right. Hong Kong and Singapore are both major travel hubs, so the fact that they are opening this travel bubble is a very strong sign for getting back to normalcy. So what this bubble means is that travelers going between these two locations do not have to quarantine, but they do need to prove that they had negative COVID tests and this is also a sigh of relief for these places because they've been hit, Julia, extremely hard by these travel restrictions. They don't have a domestic market to rely on, to offset the massive drop in international travel. For instance, if you look at the data for this August for passenger airport traffic volume, it shrunk to just two percent of last August's number, so a severe drop here. But the fact that they're able to open up this travel bubble also speaks to the fact that both places have managed to rein in the pandemic and keep those COVID cases low through contact tracing, through social distancing, and through intense travel restrictions. So Hong Kong has banned most non- residents from coming in, and they've set up this complex system in place to prevent any imported infections. For instance, when I traveled recently from Beijing into Hong Kong, I had to quarantine for 14 days. I had to wear a wristband tracker every day just to prove to authorities that I was staying in my room. I had to take two COVID tests. Singapore has also had intense restrictions as well. And even despite all of this, some experts have said that maybe this is too soon. They think these places need to be showing zero COVID infections for many consecutive days before going forward with this. And you have seen Asian countries be really tepid about opening these travel corridors, even with countries with a low risk of infection, and that Julia is in stark contrast to what we're seeing, for instance, in Europe, where there are some countries there with free borders despite this resurgence in cases.</s>CHATTERLEY: Yes, you know, I have my head in my hands when I listen to the management tools that are being used in countries over near where you are versus what we've seen in Europe and here in the United States. It has to be managed or it's not possible at all. Selina, great to have the details and they'll just have to be flexible. Selina Wang, thank you for that. All right. These are the stories making headlines around the world. The World Health Organization says around 80 percent of European countries are seeing a rise in COVID numbers. On Wednesday, Italy recorded its highest daily increase in coronavirus cases since the beginning of the pandemic. European leaders meanwhile, meeting in Brussels for a two-day Summit on Brexit. British Prime Minister Boris Johnson previously set today as the final possible date for a trade deal to be agreed. That won't now happen, but Prime Minister Johnson has indicated he'll wait for E.U. leaders to finish their discussions Friday before deciding on the U.K.'s next steps. Thailand's government has issued an emergency decree banning gatherings of more than five people in Bangkok. It is designed to stifle pro-democracy demonstrations that have gripped the country now for months. Police arrested several protest leaders after thousands of people marched on Wednesday calling for the Prime Minister to resign. All right, those are just some of the headlines we are watching and now we're going to take a break so FIRST MOVE will be back after this. Don't go away.

Microsoft Discusses its Cybersecurity Efforts to Protect Election Integrity.

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to the show, we are just 19 days away from the presidential election here in the United States and one of the big talking points in the run up has been the risk of election interference. And according to Microsoft, a new serious threat is ransomware. The company said earlier this week it took action to disrupt trick bot, which it calls one of the world's most infamous and prolific distributors of ransomware. It could for example, infect computer systems used to report election night results seizing those systems at a prescribed hour to cause maximum chaos. Wow. We're joined by Tom Burt, Corporate Vice President of Customer Security and Trust at Microsoft. Tom, great to have you on the show once again. We've given viewers a sense there, but just lay out the threat and how prolific is this?</s>TOM BURT, CORPORATE VICE PRESIDENT OF CUSTOMER SECURITY AND TRUST, MICROSOFT: Well, the threat is a serious one and it's been recognized as such by both the technology sector, but also government. Chris Krebs, the Director of CISA in the Department of Homeland Security has been talking about this threat for some time, and the challenge is exactly what you described. It is that this software could be used by cyber criminals looking to make money by nation states looking to disrupt the election, in order to tie up, to lock up the computers being used for some part of the voting process on Election Day, and not reveal the key to let you get those computers operating again until you pay a significant ransom.</s>CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, you can imagine the chaos that would cause and they have infected a number of Internet of Things devices, as well. We're enjoying greater connectivity than we've ever had before. But then it can access corporations, to households, we're all potentially vulnerable.</s>BURT: We all are very much potentially vulnerable, and these botnets, these criminal networks of infected devices that have been secretly infected by these criminal syndicates with their software so they can control your computer, this is a real plague on the internet. And so that's one of the reasons why we've been working to disrupt the botnets and have a real focus on how they might impact the election this year.</s>CHATTERLEY: And who's doing this, Tom, before we talk about what the Digital Crimes Unit that you guys have actually been up to? Who's doing this? Is it networks? Is it nation states? How accurate can you be in tracing where the threat is coming from?</s>BURT: The threat of ransomware can come from a number of different sources and that can include these well-established syndicates of criminals who can live in many different countries, but work together to conduct their crime, but also nation states and actors who are controlled or directed by governments can also use ransomware to try to create some disruption, so we're concerned about both of those risks.</s>CHATTERLEY: Tom, talk me through what the Digital Crimes Unit did and what you took down. I know it involved a court order, working with telecommunication companies, just talk me through what was required and what was done.</s>BURT: In this instance, we identified one particular botnet, this one called trick bot that has been a plague on the financial services industries. It's been stealing money from consumers for a number of years. It's really an infamous botnet. But it also is known as a prime distributor of this ransomware malware. And we decided that if we could possibly take that botnet down prior to the election, it would help us reduce the risk that ransomware would be utilized as an attack during the election itself. So what the Digital Crimes Unit did is they have forensic investigators, engineers who actually look very carefully at how does the botnet operate? We actually take some computers and get them infected on purpose by the botnet, so that we can then communicate with those who are controlling the botnet and observe what's happening and it takes a lot of work and a lot of time to build that out. And once we know how it operates, what its architecture is, then we built partnerships, in this case, extensive partnerships, including other technology companies, like Symantec was a great partner, and we worked together to then go to court and get an order from the court that will instruct everyone who controls, who hosts part of the infrastructure that the criminals are using to block that infrastructure. And that's been -- we got that court order. It was sealed until we could launch our work to actually block that infrastructure, and we've been working on that since a week ago and we're making really great progress on shutting down this botnet.</s>CHATTERLEY: Tom, it's great work. I know, it's just a piece of the Defending Democracy Program. I was just looking at it here and this is where you work with global governments and institutions to protect democracy and election integrity, which is fantastic work by you guys that Microsoft. Tom, who did this? Where do you think this emanated from?</s>BURT: The best we can say today is that it appears that the people operating this trick bot botnet operate from somewhere in Eastern Europe, and whether that's from a single country or multiple countries, we can't say for sure, but it does appear to be operated from Eastern Europe.</s>CHATTERLEY: The obvious response there would be, it's coming from Russia, but you would have told me that if you could, I'm assuming so we can't be so specific, Eastern Europe.</s>BURT: That's right. I can't be that specific, but certainly, Russia could be one of the countries from which this botnet is operated.</s>CHATTERLEY: Yes. Great to have you with us, Tom. Great work from you and the team. Thank you so much. Tom Burt there, the Vice President of Customer Security and Trust at Microsoft. All right, some breaking news now just in to CNN. Vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris leaving the campaign trail until Sunday, after one of her flight crew tested positive for coronavirus. Her campaign say she did not have direct contact with the crew member, but out of an abundance of caution, they are canceling her travel schedule. All right, G-20 countries offering a new lifeline to nations struggling under the strain of the pandemic. But the World Bank says, more needs to be done to support them. We'll discuss what that might look like, next. Stay with us.

U.S. Reports Nearly 60,000 New Cases, Highest in 2 Months; Trump, Biden to Hold Dueling Town Halls after Debate Nixed; Obama to Hit Campaign Trail for Biden This Week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number of states with increases in new cases keeps going up. Nearly 50,000 new cases a day.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are heading into a fall and winter without a national plan. Too many states are letting their guard down.</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Trump staged yet another potential super spreader event in Iowa.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: When people are close to each other and you don't have virtually everyone wearing a mask, that is a risky situation.</s>BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One thing we know is that just basic competence can end up saving lives. When we had a pandemic, we had competent people in place who would deal with it.</s>ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.</s>JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Thursday, October 15. It's 6 a.m. here in New York. And this morning, doctors tell us they are running out of beds in some hospitals in Wisconsin. Running out of beds. That is where we are again. Five states are seeing more hospitalizations than they have at any point in this pandemic. Nearly 60,000 new coronavirus cases reported overnight. That's the highest daily total since early August. Nine hundred and eighty-five new deaths reported. Each one matters. The maps show rising cases across the country. Look at all the states in orange and red there. Dr. Anthony Fauci issued a warning to all of us for Thanksgiving. He says, bite the bullet. Steer clear of family gatherings. On the subject of large gatherings, the president violating the recommendations from the White House coronavirus task force. The task force calls Des Moines, Iowa, a yellow zone, meaning no gatherings of more than 25 people. The president's rally overnight easily closer to 2,500. Most of the people there, unmasked. This in a state where hospitalizations are accelerating, where one in five people tested are positive for the virus. It's little wonder the president hasn't stopped the spread, even into his own house, where we learned his son, Barrett, was also infected.</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: More than 14 million Americans have already cast their ballots. Voter enthusiasm is at record highs. Yesterday, we saw another day of very long lines for early voting across the country. And former president Barack Obama is speaking out in a new interview about President Trump and Joe Biden. President Obama is expected to hit the campaign trail for Biden next week. But we begin with the pandemic. CNN's Adrienne Broaddus live in Wisconsin, where they are seeing a record number of hospitalizations. What's the latest, Adrienne?</s>ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Wisconsin is in crisis. The state's positivity rate is 22 percent. ICUs are strained, and every region of the state is reporting hospitals with one or more current or imminent staff shortages.</s>BROADDUS (voice-over): This morning, the United States is facing dangerous coronavirus wave. New cases are on the rise in at least 35 states over the past week, and the country is averaging more than 50,000 new cases per day for the first time in about two months, recording nearly 60,000 new cases on Wednesday, the highest since August.</s>DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: For the short-term, we have to hunker down. We have to get through this season.</s>BROADDUS: With holidays like Thanksgiving just weeks away, Dr. Anthony Fauci encouraging Americans to rethink travel plans.</s>FAUCI: That is a risk. You may have to bite the bullet and sacrifice that social gathering unless you're pretty certain that the people that you're dealing with are not infected.</s>BROADDUS: As Iowa reached a positivity rate over 18 percent, President Trump held a rally in Des Moines, with few masks in the crowd and no social distancing. Trump is also scheduled to hold an event in Wisconsin Saturday, as the state experiences a coronavirus surge, reporting more than 3,100 new infections Wednesday. A circuit judge temporarily blocking Governor Tony Evers's efforts to restrict public gatherings to 25 percent.</s>GOV. TONY EVERS (D-WI): Just because some folks out there want to see full bars and full hospitals, doesn't mean we have to listen. The longer it takes for folks to take this virus seriously, the longer it will take to get our economy and our communities back.</s>BROADDUS: Fauci says holding large gatherings like the president's campaign rallies are dangerous.</s>FAUCI: When people are close to each other and you don't have virtually everyone wearing a mask, that is a risky situation that could very well lead to the kind of spreader events that we have seen in similar settings.</s>BROADDUS: Meanwhile, the virus sidelining the University of Florida football program after at least 21 players tested positive. And Alabama football coach Nick Saban is now self-isolating at home after a positive COVID test.</s>NICK SABAN, HEAD COACH, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA FOOTBALL: This was routine, every day. We test our players every day. I get tested every day. I feel fine; I felt fine. I was very surprised, you know, by this.</s>BROADDUS: And back here in Wisconsin, the field hospital is reserved for patients who are nearing the end of their treatment. And here's something to look forward to. As we look ahead, Dr. Anthony Fauci says a safe and effective COVID-19 vaccine should be, or may be, widely available by April 2021, a year after the start of the pandemic. Back to you.</s>CAMEROTA: That is a high note to end on. Adrienne, thank you very much. So President Trump and Joe Biden were supposed to face off Joe Biden were supposed to face off in a debate tonight. But instead, both men will be competing for prime-time viewers in dueling town halls. CNN's Joe Johns is live at the White House for us with more. Hi, Joe.</s>JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn. Yes, dueling town halls, indeed. So these two candidates are going to be squaring off on competing television networks at the same time tonight. This was supposed to be debate night in America, as you said, but the debate got canceled due to the fact, essentially, that the president backed out after the debate commission said, Look, we need you to do this virtually because of COVID concerns. Now, the president will be in Miami. The vice president, Vice President Biden, will be in Philadelphia. Both in town halls. Now, these -- these town halls were held on the condition, or the town hall for the president, I should say, is held on the condition that he take an independent test for COVID to show that he's in the clear. And he's done that. There were two experts who had to review that test. One of them was Dr. Anthony Fauci. Dr. Fauci had a warning for people who were placing too much stock in the president's recovery. Listen.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When people say, The president beat it, I'm not worried about it, what's your response?</s>FAUCI: Well, that's sort of like saying, somebody was speeding in a car at 95 miles an hour and didn't get in an accident, so I can go ahead and speed and not get in an accident. We're very, very pleased that the president did so well when he was infected with coronavirus, but there are also a lot of people who are his age and his weight which did not do as well as the president did.</s>JOHNS: Now, the president is expected to have a busy day today. Besides this town hall in Miami, he's also supposed to have a rally in North Carolina. And then he's going to have a fund-raiser at his Doral property just outside Miami. John, back to you.</s>BERMAN: Look, he might need the money. The Biden campaign announcing record-breaking fundraising numbers. Joe Johns at the White House, thank you very much.</s>JOHNS: You bet.</s>BERMAN: So a brand-new interview with former President Obama. He's speaking out about President Trump criticizing him and previewing what he will say when he goes on the campaign trail next week for former Vice President Biden. CNN's Jessica Dean live in Washington with the latest on this -- Jessica.</s>JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to you, John. Yes, we heard from President Obama in this new podcast on the popular podcast "Pod Save America." It's hosted by former Obama White House alums. So you can imagine that most of the listeners already listening to this are planning to support the Biden/Harris ticket. But now it is time for the Biden campaign to convert support into actual votes. And that's where we see them deploying President Obama, first on this podcast, then to the campaign trail. I want to talk for a moment about what he said on the podcast. He did, as you mentioned, criticize President Trump on a host of issues, including foreign policy. He also made a big pitch for his friend and his former vice president, Joe Biden, specifically to young voters and to black and Latino men. Take a listen.</s>OBAMA: A lot of times, when you're thinking about the presidency, it's great to look at policy and, you know, do they have -- what were their ten-point plans on this, or that, or the other. But a lot of it is, what's their basic character? Right? Are they people who instinctively care about the underdog? Are they people who are able to see the world through somebody else's eyes? And stand in their shoes? Are they people who are instinctively generous in spirit, right? And that is who Joe is.</s>BERMAN: Four hundred and thirty-two million dollars cash on hand is insane.</s>DEAN: It's insane.</s>BERMAN: With a month left to go. That was what he was talking about at the beginning of October. So that's how much they had. That is so much money, it's hard to know how to spend it all, although I'm sure the Biden campaign will find a way.</s>DEAN: Yes.</s>BERMAN: Jessica Dean, thanks very much. So nearly 60,000 new coronavirus cases reported overnight. That's the highest number since the beginning of August. What's the country going to do to stop it? Where's the plan? That's next.

U.S. Reports Nearly 60,000 New Cases, Highest Level in Two Months; Europe Triggers Tighter Restrictions, Paris under Curfew

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is New Day. Happy New Day to you, John.</s>JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Happy New Day. Are the stockings up or something?</s>CAMEROTA: No, but you have set the tone by playing music throughout this. And I hope you will for the rest of the program, because we need some levity, because hospitals in Wisconsin are running out of beds this morning. They're quickly filling up with coronavirus patients. Wisconsin is having a particularly hard time getting their arms around this outbreak, but four other states are also seeing record hospitalizations. Now, overnight, the U.S. reported nearly 60,000 new cases. That's the highest daily total since early August. Dr. Anthony Fauci is now warning all of us that we may need to steer clear of family gatherings on Thanksgiving. Of course, that's not stopping President Trump from holding very large gatherings and defying the White House coronavirus task force. He held this rally in Iowa in front of thousands of people, a largely unmasked crowd. In Iowa, one in five people tested are now testing positive for the virus.</s>BERMAN: Just think about that for a second though. Dr. Fauci is basically telling us we might have to cancel Thanksgiving, but the president is appearing with thousands of people in a packed rally. Just think about that. More than 14 million Americans have already cast their ballots. We saw another day of very long lines for early voting across the country. Former President Barack Obama speaking out in a new interview about President Trump and Joe Biden. The former president expected to hit the campaign trail for Biden next week. Let's begin though with the pandemic. CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me now. And, Sanjay, maybe it's because you trained me, it's the hospitalization numbers that we have seen every morning that have so troubled me over the last week. If you look at the national chart, and you can see, it has bottomed out and it is now going up and is going up more steeply by the day. We have five states that are seeing record hospitalizations, including Wisconsin. We're going to talk to a Wisconsin doc next hour who says he's been working at several hospitals that are already running out of beds. So why does this trouble you?</s>DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, you know, hospitalizations are, I think, a truer assessment of what's going on here. We've always sort of used testing, you know, as an idea of what's happening. But, you know, even now, you know, if you look at the numbers on the right side of the screen, you can probably multiply them times five to get a better sense of how many people out there have been infected over the last several months. So we still undertest, but when people then become hospitalized with COVID, that's going to be a much truer assessment of what's going on. The big question is, and this is the same question, the same dialogue we were having back in March and April, which is, are we ready for what is potentially going to come? And seems increasingly likely is going to come in terms of patients needing hospital bed. So I think we have this graphic looking around the country and sort of saying, okay, what is the capacity, what can we deal with right now in terms of overall hospital beds? And what you find is that more states than not are already, the darker the color here, are already beyond 70 percent full. Now, what is normal around this time of year, maybe closer to 60 percent. So it's not that much dramatically different, but it's not even really in the flu season as of yet. You add into that coronavirus, this twindemic that people talk about, it's a concern. Where I'm living in Georgia, we're 89 percent full already. So you can imagine as you start to get a lot more patients here, what are you going to do? Similar situation as to what they're talking about in Wisconsin, trying to build that surge capacity. And one other thing, John, you say we bottomed out with regards to hospitalizations. Of course, we didn't bottom out, we just came to the lowest level that we have come in the last couple of months. I just want to show you, to that point, 1918 again, I have shown this graphic a couple times over the last several of months. But when we look at 1918 and look at these waves, that where the idea of waves came from, they really did bottom out in terms of cases and I know that they really came low in terms of hospitalizations and overall deaths as well. But look at what happened there in the second wave. That was the concerning one. That was October. And they had close to 200,000 people die in a single month during that time, 195,000 people. So that's why going into the fall, historically, looking at what could happen, hopefully doesn't, that's what they're trying to avoid.</s>CAMEROTA: Sanjay, I want to ask you about Thanksgiving. Because Dr. Fauci weighed in on this and he basically said that his family has already made the decision. Already, his three adult children will not be coming home, as they normally do. They have already decided not to. So let me just play for you what he said about the rest of our families.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It is unfortunate, because that's such a sacred part of American tradition, the family gathering around Thanksgiving. But that is a risk. You may have to bite the bullet and sacrifice that social gathering, unless you are pretty certain that the people that you're dealing with are not infected.</s>CAMEROTA: Aha, he gave me an opening. Because I'm in denial, as John can tell you. So isn't there a way to do it safely, where if everybody gets tested right before they're all going to get together, they could maybe still do it?</s>GUPTA: Possibly, yes. I mean, I don't want to be absolutist about this. And, by the way, we're having the same conversation in our family as well. My parents are in their mid to late 70s, they live in Florida, they would love to come see the grandkids. Can't we just get tested? And we know that testing is not the solution to everything, because people can have false negatives and testing doesn't prevent you from getting the illness, but, Alisyn, yes. And we could have been in a very different spot in this country by this point if we had widespread easily available testing to a point where, you know, the NBA had it, you know, the White House has it, where you could do even daily testing as needed. So we're not there. But is it possible that people could get tested, you know, what is it now, middle of October, 14 days at least before Thanksgiving, get tested again right beforehand, then potentially spend Thanksgiving with their family? Yes. It's a lot of steps to go through. And if you're living in an area where you have a lot of viral dynamics, you might be exposed in the interim. So it's possible. It's going to take a lot of work this year in order to make it happen. If you can do it outside, if you live in a warmer weather state, great. if you live somewhere cooler and you can really open up windows and allow a lot of ventilation. Again, visualizing this virus like clouds of smoke, wafting that smoke away, making it a lot less likely for people to become infected. Yes, it's possible. But we could have been in a very different position right now had we done testing, had we been able to bring the viral loads way down in this country.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, it's like the constant testing -- sorry to interrupt, but it's not like the constant testing at the White House prevented an outbreak.</s>GUPTA: Right, it doesn't prevent the outbreak. But in a situation like this, if you can be really diligent about it, like they did, again, with the NBA, they tested people 14 days before they came into the bubble, tested them again when they arrived there and then started testing, as soon as somebody tested positive, they got isolated, all the things that we talk about.</s>BERMAN: Look, I appreciate your both being glass half full about this. I don't think that's the thrust of what Dr. Fauci was talking about. I think Dr. Fauci was trying to gently tell us that this isn't safe to get together with our families, extended families, on Thanksgiving. I think he's trying to ease us into it and will be saying it more and more, I think, forcefully over the next few days. But, Alisyn, you're in here with me every day. I mean, you can get tested every day, but what about me? I mean, what about everyone in here? It's not -- I don't think we should be sending the signal to people that --</s>CAMEROTA: That I don't care about you?</s>BERMAN: -- that there are all of these ways to do it, when, in fact, I think what Dr. Fauci saying is this is dangerous. It's dangerous.</s>CAMEROTA: And you're not thinking about other people?</s>BERMAN: And you're not the NBA. If you're going testing now, you've got to go into --</s>CAMEROTA: What do you mean, I'm not the NBA?</s>BERMAN: -- a 14-day bubble, you're going to go into 14-day bubble before Thanksgiving?</s>CAMEROTA: No. I mean, I appreciate Sanjay telling me all of the steps, because when you hear all of those steps, it becomes actually a little too onerous to do it. It's just easier to say, okay, so this year, we're not going to do it.</s>BERMAN: Anyway, it's tough.</s>CAMEROTA: Sanjay, thanks for witnessing this family squabble that John and I are having. Thanks for being here and trying to mediate it.</s>GUPTA: I know.</s>CAMEROTA: Great to see you.</s>GUPTA: You got it. Thank you.</s>CAMEROTA: The pandemic is also getting worse overseas. The United Kingdom's health secretary telling parliament moments ago that the spike in cases there are grave and serious. The mayor of London just announced that the city is preparing to ban people from mixing with other households indoors. Germany also reporting a record increase in new coronavirus cases. Chancellor Angela Merkel restricted to social gatherings to just ten people in public and in private. And in France, a 9:00 P.M. curfew will go into effect this Saturday in Paris and a number of other cities. So, joining us now is Maria Van Kerkhove. She is the World Health Organization's Technical Lead on this pandemic and an infectious disease epidemiologist. Ms. Van Kerkhove, thank you very much for being here. Can you just explain what's happening in Europe? Because so many countries there felt that they had licked the problem, they had flattened the curve, which would suggest that the virus was not kind of circulating around as much. And now that so many are having to go into these lockdown measures, what happened?</s>MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, CORONAVIRUS TECHNICAL LEAD, WHO HEALTH EMERGENCIES PROGRAMME: Well, thanks, Alisyn, for having me on again. Yes, we are certainly seeing a very concerning situation across Europe, where we're seeing a resurgence, we're seeing an increase in transmission and a large number of countries across the region. In fact, about 80 percent of countries across the European regions are seeing a growth right now. But the thing that we need to really understand is, as you've pointed out, many of the countries have brought these pandemics, these outbreaks under control and they can do it again. Now is the time. We must come together and use the tools that we have at hand. We are in a completely different situation than we were in a few months ago. We know so much more about this virus, how to control the virus. We need to stay focused, we need to have unity across the region, across the world, in fact, to be able to apply the tools that we have at hand where we can bring these outbreaks under control. And as you pointed out earlier in your show, it's not just the cases that we're worried about. We're seeing a large increase in hospitalizations, we're seeing an increase in ICU rates across a number of countries. But it's not uniform across every country and every city. There are hot spots. And so what we need to do is target the interventions to where they are needed most and we can do this. And I think that's the message, is that even though people are really becoming tired of this and wanting to get back to, quote, unquote, normal, our new normal means we are going to have to be living with this for some time and make some sacrifices, but put the work in to be able to bring these outbreaks under control.</s>CAMEROTA: Ms. Van Kerkhove, I don't know if you can this graphic, if we put it up on the screen, but I'd still like to show it because it jumped out at me. This is the deaths in Europe, the past week versus the previous week. Let me show you. Those are the cases. Here we go. It's hard not to see that there is country in green, which means the deaths have gone down, and that's Sweden. Then, of course, Sweden has gotten a lot of attention because they did things a little differently, I think. They still had restrictions, it wasn't a total free-for-all there, but they kept restaurants and, I think, stores and stuff open. Is there any reason that you can explain why Sweden would be having fewer deaths right now?</s>VAN KERKHOVE: No. What I can say is, in terms of mortality, we have definitely seen a reduction in mortality over time, and that's for a number of reasons. I mean, first of all, surveillance has increased, so we're picking up people on the more mild end of the spectrum. We're also preventing outbreaks from happening in long-term living facilities. And many countries have seen, unfortunately, the virus entering long- term living facilities with devastating effects. We're doing better on this end, but although we still need to make sure that the virus doesn't enter those situations. We're also much better at treating patients. So with finding cases earlier with rapid detection, they enter the clinical pathway much sooner. They have their oxygen saturation checked very quickly, they're administered oxygen if necessary, they're given dexamethasone if they have severe or critical disease. All of that saves lives. Our frontline workers, our doctors are better trained, better experienced with this virus. And so we're doing much better at actually preventing people from advancing to severe disease and preventing people from dying. So I think there're a number of reasons. But make no mistake --</s>CAMEROTA: Yes. But I guess my question is --</s>VAN KERKHOVE: -- if we don't prevent the cases, then those can lead to further deaths down the road.</s>CAMEROTA: Understood. I guess my question is about the different approaches that different -- it wasn't one-size-fits-all. There were different approaches. And I'm wondering if one worked better than the other. And part of the reason I asked is because, this week, there has been information here in the U.S. that the White House is leaning towards a so-called herd immunity approach, which is more of a let her rip approach, and that's something that President Trump seems to have approached. And so I was wondering if you have been able to tell which approach has worked best.</s>VAN KERKHOVE: With this idea of herd immunity, this is a phrase that's used when you use vaccination, when you vaccinate a certain amount of the population to be able to protect the rest of the population that isn't able to get that vaccine. Herd immunity, as an approach, by letting the virus circulate, is dangerous. It leads to unnecessary cases and it leads to unnecessary deaths. Our director general and many of us have been speaking about this, that this is not a strategy for this virus, because there is so much that we can do. What I think countries are doing, and you pointed this out, there is no one-size-fits-all on how the actions and the interventions need to be used, but there are a series of tools that we have that everyone is using, even Sweden is using in terms of physical distancing, across Europe, across the United States. What we need to make sure is that not only do governments have clear, strong approaches, but that individuals know, are empowered, are educated and enabled to actually carry out many of these actions. If there are stay-at-home orders or if somebody is asked to work from home, they need to be supported in doing so. If people cannot be -- if cases cannot be isolated in medical facilities and they need to be isolated at home, they need to be cared for and checked up on and make sure that they don't infect their families. There's so much that can be done. But the way that they are tailored, the way that they are used and targeted needs to be specific to the country, needs to be specific to look at the demographics of the country, the way that people live. If you live in a single-family home, which many people in Sweden do, versus multi-generational homes, there's lots of considerations that need to be taken into account when you talk about the approach that's used. But there are so many tools that have to be used. And even the alarming situations that we're seeing across much of Europe, in the United States as well, it can be turned around. We need to think about what we need to do as individuals and how each of the decisions that we make can actually contribute to bringing this pandemic to an end.</s>CAMEROTA: Thank you for all of those reminders and all of the information. Maria Van Kerkhove, we appreciate having you on New Day.</s>VAN KERKHOVE: Thank you.</s>CAMEROTA: Former President Barack Obama preparing to hit the road to campaign for Joe Biden. Hear what he has to say about the Republican Party and President Trump in this very new interview. That's next.

Obama Says, GOP has Allowed Trump to Politicize Justice System.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I think a very important question after the election, even if it goes well with Joe Biden, is whether you start seeing the Republican Party restore some sense of norms that we can't breach, because he's breached all of them. And they have not said to him, this is too far.</s>BERMAN: That's a brand-new interview with former President Barack Obama on the podcast, Pod Save America, blasting Republicans for allowing the president to politicize the justice system. The former president expected to campaign for Joe Biden next week. Joining us now, CNN Political Commentator Scott Jennings, he was a special assistant to President George W. Bush. And also with us is David Litt, former speechwriter for President Obama, and the author of Democracy in One Book or Less. So, David, I want to start with you. Because one of the things that I think has been a little bit accepted in our political history is that Barack Obama is an incredible campaigner for himself. He has won his elections that he has run for himself very big, hasn't always been as successful campaigning for others, whether it be in midterm elections or for Hillary Clinton last time. So where do you think and how do you think the former president will be most effective and did you hear that at all in this interview last night?</s>DAVID LITT, FORMER SPEECHWRITER FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, first of all, thank you for having me on this morning. And let me say, we're in a pretty remarkable situation where the most trusted figure in American politics is Michelle Obama and the second-most trusted figure in American politics is Michelle Obama's husband, Barack Obama. And so both have a really unique authority to speak to the American people, not just Democrats at this point, but also independents and Republicans, about what this job takes, about what the kind of character of someone who should be having this job ought to be, and then also about who Joe Biden is. All of that makes them particularly good surrogates this year in the next couple of weeks in particular. And one of the things I noticed, you mentioned that President Obama was on a podcast, my former speechwriting colleagues, Pod Save America. And he's speaking directly to some of the most engaged, active, most likely volunteers in the Democratic Party. So he's able to reach Democrats directly and it's not just about sending a message, it's also about moving up engagement, getting that extra volunteer shift, getting people to call up their friend in a swing state and get them to vote early. So you're seeing all of these avenues that President Obama can use, combined with that unique credibility and trust, combined with a year that if the polls are right, is starting to break Democrats' way pretty heavily. I think you add all of those things together and you can see why both of the Obamas make such a good pair of closers.</s>CAMEROTA: Scott, I know, as a Republican, you're not in the business of giving Joe Biden advice or political strategy, but do you think there is a way for the Biden campaign to deploy President Obama, in a way, to a demographic that Joe Biden isn't hitting?</s>SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, I'll give anybody advice. I mean -- and it's worth what you paid for it, so just keep that in mind. Number two, yes, of course, I mean, Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, the Obamas, popular people, very articulate in laying out the stakes of an election. I mean, they're far more articulate in some ways than Joe Biden is in laying out what they want to see for the future of country. So anytime you have popular, powerful, well-known, popular surrogates, it's better than a sharp stick in the eye. And so I think Biden needs those kinds of people. I'm not sure how much of an impact he'll have. I mean, Barack Obama has been a feature of every federal election since 2004. He's done well for himself, as John pointed out, he has not done very well for others. I would say if I were the Democratic president that had created the conditions in this country that led to Donald Trump becoming the president, I would probably be campaigning 24 hours a day too. Heck, I would probably be in therapy. And so I'm not surprised to see them out on the campaign trail. And I think turnout and enthusiasm in both party's bases is pretty jacked already. So I think it's a great thing to have to drive news cycles. Will it cause a single person to turn out that wasn't already going to turn out, I'm not so sure about that.</s>BERMAN: Speaking of jacked, let's talk about money. Scott was excited there for a second.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes, I saw that.</s>BERMAN: It's about money, neither of us. Look at the fundraising haul that was announced by the Biden campaign last night, $383 million in September. And it's the number on the right that really matters, which is $423 million cash on hand at the beginning of October. David, that is an enormous sum of money, one that actually it will be challenging to figure out how to spend it all effectively. What does that tell you when you have a challenger -- and we don't know President Trump's fundraising number yet, but based on the last month, it may be a safe assumption, it's not as high as the Biden team. What does that tell you?</s>LITT: Well, John, if you remember, the Trump campaign was supposed to be the Death Star. They called it the Death Star. And, apparently, the Rebel Alliance has arrived and they brought reinforcements. I mean, what we're seeing is an enormous amount of support. And one of the most important numbers within that number is the percentage of those donations that come from small donor donors, who can give again before the end of this election cycle and also from people who represent not just a couple of big names writing a couple of checks, but represent enthusiasm for the candidate. So I think what you are seeing is an incredible eagerness. You're seeing the same thing with early voting where Democrats are -- they have been waiting for four very long years to do something to turn the page on President Trump, and they're jumping at the chance. And I think that coupled, by the way, with the fact that Joe Biden, lots of people, including on this network, will say, well, he's not a great campaigner. Look at those fundraising numbers, he's running a very impressive campaign</s>CAMEROTA: Scott, feel free to comment on fundraising. And also I just wanted to touch that Republican governor of Massachusetts, Charlie Baker, has announced through a statement that he will not be voting for President Trump. No surprise, but just wondering your thoughts on that.</s>JENNINGS: Yes. Well, the fundraising story is far more important than Governor Baker, who is obviously not a fan of Donald Trump. I'm old enough to remember, by the way, when Democrats were the party that said, money and politics was evil. Now, I mean, look, at the presidential level, at the Senate level, congressional campaigns, Democrats have all the money. They have unlimited money. You look at what's happening for Biden and for Jaime Harrison in South Carolina, for Mark Kelly, all of these Senate races and congressional races, unlimited amount of money. You'll never be able to spend it all, and so all the voices that told us that money is evil in politics have suddenly gone very quiet. Now, I celebrate money in politics and I think it's perfectly fine for people to spend money in politics. And I think if there's a message in all of this, it's to Republican and conservative donors, and that is, when you get mad about something and you're upset about policy, don't run to Facebook and post some ornery message. Pull out your wallet and give money, because that's what the Democrats have figured out how to do, and God bless them. They have absolutely figured out the small dollar fundraising game in a way the Republicans haven't. And I suspect it's going to make a big difference in all of the federal elections this fall.</s>BERMAN: All right. Scott Jennings, David Litt, thank you both so much for being with us. I appreciate it. So the pandemic has hit small businesses so hard, particularly restaurants and hotels. What do the workers there need now with so much pain on the horizon?

Obama to Hit Campaign Trail

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That there was then a misconception about who President Obama actually can move. I do think that there is a segment of the Democratic Party, but they -- it's a more moderate sort of center left segment of the Democratic Party that, obviously, loves President Obama and the levels of enthusiasm definitely are affected by his presence on the campaign trail. I definitely think there's been a shift away from President Obama among the most liberal of liberals, like sort of the Bernie Sanders liberals out there. So I really don't think those are the kinds of people that he is really trying to appeal to. But you heard him talking specifically to minority men, in particular, black voters, in particular. You know, it's worth a try. Again, four years ago, he had the same message, telling black voters, get out there. Saying to black voters, if you don't get out there, I will view it as a personal insult to me. So it is really an open question to me whether that kind of message is going to work again. I think the circumstances, obviously, are different, but President Obama really has to kind of give it his all because he's tried to motivate Democratic voters in the past and it hasn't always worked.</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Abby, I want to talk about what was supposed to be happening tonight and what will be happening tonight. So there was supposed to be the second presidential debate, but instead there'll be dueling town halls.</s>CAMEROTA: Why can you cue it up perfectly during the commercial break. Every time I have said "dueling," Abby, during the commercial break, John does this, OK? It's quite distracting.</s>BERMAN: Because I'm contractually obligated. When anyone ever says the word "dueling," you've got to play dueling banjos.</s>CAMEROTA: OK. So that's what's going on behind the scenes. Here's my question, Abby, is that --</s>PHILLIP: You can just keep playing it while -- while we're talking, John. Go ahead.</s>BERMAN: Sorry.</s>PHILLIP: Yes.</s>CAMEROTA: I can't tell if the dueling town halls create a problem for voters or solve a problem for voters. And so meaning, like, now you'll have to click back and forth if you want to compare and contrast, or each candidate will be able to finish a sentence.</s>PHILLIP: Honestly, this is, to be honest, it's ridiculous, if you're a voter. You know, I mean what are you supposed to get out of it? I -- what we're going to see tonight are people who are inclined to vote for bidden tuning into bidden, people who are inclined to vote for President Trump tuning into President Trump. That is not the purpose of debate night, what this was supposed to be. I -- I think that tonight is going to be, honestly, a travesty for the American public in terms of really seeing these two candidates up against each other, unless you're really, really committed and you Tivo the whole thing and watch it back later. And if you're that kind of person, you probably already know who you're going to vote for. So, look, I mean, I don't know that there's anything that can be done about it tonight, but I think that this is going to be really people with preconceived notions tuning into what they want to listen to and I don't think it's going to really do anything to move the ball forward in terms of what we know about the differences, obviously, between the two, but how they stack up against each other, how they -- how they can really go up against each other in terms of policy and character and temperament and all of those other things.</s>BERMAN: I know there was a lot of outrage out there in the liberal twittersphere over the fact that NBC is doing this, but I also know that there are people within Biden world who don't mind the idea of a lot of people watching President Trump on TV?</s>PHILLIP: Yes.</s>BERMAN: When was the last time he went on TV in front of millions of people and helped himself? That, I mean, in all honesty, it's not clear to me that his desire to maybe pull more ratings than Joe Biden is going to help him the way he thinks it will.</s>PHILLIP: Yes. Totally. I -- I mean, obviously, the president is focused on this idea of ratings. But that really doesn't matter if the people who are tuning into you either already agree with you or already disagree with you and you're not changing their mind. The president needs to have a good session and -- and I -- I think it would be a mistake, though, for the Biden campaign or Biden allies or whoever to assume that it -- that it will definitely be a terrible town hall session for the president. I don't think that you can assume that. I think it is definitely possible -- like, we've seen President Trump, you know, four years ago, have decent town hall sessions. He has the ability to do it. The question is, does he want to? So far I haven't seen any evidence that he's -- he's willing to sort of moderate his demeanor for -- for, you know, independent voters, but I think that he has the ability to. So we'll see what happens tonight.</s>CAMEROTA: Abby, thank you. Thank you.</s>BERMAN: It's your --</s>CAMEROTA: John's going to play us out.</s>BERMAN: It's your walk off music.</s>PHILLIP: I love it.</s>BERMAN: Abby Phillip, thank you.</s>CAMEROTA: Thank you, Abby.</s>BERMAN: Thank you very much for being with us this morning.</s>CAMEROTA: And --</s>BERMAN: OK, wait. There we go. So other major news overnight. We learned that Alabama Coach Nick Saban, legendary college football coach, has tested positive for coronavirus. This has just huge implications in the sports world. That's next.

Saban Tests Positive for COVID

BERMAN: Developing overnight, major news in college football. Alabama Head Coach Nick Saban announced that he has tested positive for coronavirus and is isolating at home. The news comes three days before the Crimson Tide scheduled to face off with Georgia. Joining us now, Nicole Auerbach. She is the senior college football writer for "The Athletic." Nicole, great to have you with us. Look, for our purposes, I'm not as interested in how Saban may coach from home over the phone during the game, but for our viewers who may not watch college football, this guy is a towering figure in all of sports. Alabama is the team in college athletics. So talk to me about the symbolism of Coach Saban, who, by the way, has been masking and promoting social distancing, the symbolism of him testing positive.</s>NICOLE AUERBACH, SENIOR COLLEGE FOOTBALL WRITER, "THE ATHLETIC": Yes, it's a big deal. It was one of those moments where you go, wow, you know, this virus really is in control because, as you mentioned, he has been masking. He has been tested daily. Alabama has been really a model for testing and behavior. But, as we know, you can't test your way out of a pandemic. And there have still been a lot of issues in every league, even those with a lot of resources like the SEC. You've had two other games postponed this weekend in addition to now the marque game of the weekend, not having the Hall of Fame head coach. The good news is, Nick Saban is asymptomatic, so that's great and he's feeling good and he practiced via Zoom the other day, yesterday. But, yes, this is absolutely a wake-up call for anyone who felt like, you know, sports returning was a sense of normalcy and, you know, the virus wasn't that big of a deal.</s>BERMAN: Well, the SEC, which is the conference that Alabama plays in, they are the conference that basically said, we're going to play no matter what. They were playing anyway. And they have had some games, but they've also had to cancel some games. LSU, national champion, just had to cancel a game they were going to play this weekend. Florida has nearly two dozen players who just tested positive. So what does that mean for the efforts to play at all costs?</s>AUERBACH: Well, honestly, it's not going to change much in terms of protocol. These were disruptions that those in charge of the SEC and other conference felt were going to happen. They built in extra buy weeks in the back end of the schedule so that they could make up games that mattered for conference races. They had coaches come up with plans, like Nick Saban is dealing with right now, for if they were unable to coach a game, who would take over, who would essentially almost be a head coach in waiting. So these were part of the plan all along. I think they said, if we are going to have a college football season, we will play through these issues and disruptions. So I don't think it will ultimately change anything, but, again, it certainly reminds you who's actually in charge, and that's the virus.</s>BERMAN: That's right. And, look, the Big Ten postponed their season and is now coming back to play. President Trump is taking credit for that. I don't know that it was necessarily President Trump as much as college football fans and just college football reality. But what does it mean for them? I mean it's clear that people will get sick. As you say, the virus is in charge. People will get sick. And they have no pad in terms of their schedule.</s>AUERBACH: Yes, the Big Ten is interesting. And, like you said, I mean it certainly wasn't one phone call from the president and more so that everyone else was playing and that there were advances in testing to make it possible to justify returning. But really the Big Ten has no wiggle room. There's no games, no -- no buy weeks to make up any games and there's actually a 21-day shutdown period, which is more than the other league. So if a player or coach tests positive, they're out for three weeks minimum, no matter what, even if they have no symptoms. So they're playing, they're -- they're moving forward in a way where they can say we're playing in the fall, but they're going at it with really strict protocols that are going to make it very difficult.</s>BERMAN: Right.</s>AUERBACH: But, again, they will get through some sort of a season.</s>BERMAN: You say that. I do wonder, with several dozen or nearly two dozen players on Florida testing positive, and it does seem to be moving about the country, what it would take for there to be a complete reckoning or rethinking of college football?</s>AUERBACH: Well, I personally thought that we would possibly get to there earlier in the calendar when regular students returned to these campuses. But you saw college football programs power on, Alabama in particular. There were over a thousand positive cases in the regular student body and they were still practicing and moving forward with games. So that is still something that is -- you know, that -- that they were able to play through and continue to play through. So I think, you know, obviously it's about a possibility that a place like Florida or a Vanderbilt, which also had to cancel their games, could get to a point where they can't finish the season. We haven't had that happen yet. But it's possible that if multiple teams and programs get to that point, Baylor's another potential candidate that have kind of been dealing with ongoing outbreaks, it is possible that, you know, you could get to the point where other people decide it's not worth it for them. But, like I said, I thought we would get to that point earlier and people decided to play through it.</s>BERMAN: It will be interesting to see. You can't will this virus away. As you said, the virus is in charge. And let's just hope that all these players and the coaches and all of their families remain safe and as healthy as can be. Nicole Auerbach, always great to have you on. Thanks for being with us.</s>AUERBACH: Thank you.</s>BERMAN: The California Republican Party refusing to comply with a state order to remove unofficial ballot boxes. What is this going to do? That's next.

GOP Doubles Down on Private Ballot Boxes

CAMEROTA: Developing this morning, California's Republican Party is refusing to comply with a judge's order to stop using unofficial ballot drop boxes. CNN's Kristen Holmes joins us now with more. So, this is a twist.</s>KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn, this is a really striking escalation in what is likely to be a political showdown ahead of November 3rd. They didn't just say they weren't going to comply, they actually said that they might add more ballot boxes because the program is going so well. And just a reminder here, the California Republican Party started putting up these unofficial ballot boxes in at least four counties. This alarmed election officials who said it was illegal. They then issued a cease and desist. Now, of course, we know that the party is not actually going to comply. However, they have said that they will take down any boxes that are labeled as official. And, Alisyn, I want to note one thing here, which is this decision to not comply came after President Trump tweeted at the party, saying, stay strong.</s>CAMEROTA: That's very interesting. That's an important note. There was also this major development, Kristen, overnight in regards to absentee ballots in North Carolina. So what's happening there?</s>HOLMES: Yes, that's right. So it was a mixed decision. A judge was overseeing three big voting cases there, but he essentially said that the state must ensure that every single ballot has a witness signature. So earlier on in the year, around September, the state issued out a directive that said that if there were missing witness signatures from an absentee ballot, that that was OK, the voter would just have to be notified and issue an affidavit saying that they -- it was, in fact, their ballot. The judge is saying absolutely not, that there must be witness signatures. But in a small twist, he is allowing some other things to be fixed during what is called the ballot curing process. And I want our listeners, our viewers, to be very aware of that term, "ballot curing," because it's something they're going to hear a lot about in the days up to the election and afterwards. This is the fixing of a ballot, an absentee ballot, that has some sort of correct information. So he is allowing for some of these minor fixes and have the ballot still count, but witness signatures will not be one of them. In a win for voting rights, advocates, though, he has said that ballots can be counted up to November 12th if they're received up to November 12th, after the election.</s>CAMEROTA: Ballot curing. Thank you for alerting us to yet another strange voting phrase that will become part of our lexicon. Thank you very much. OK, now to this, Breonna Taylor's boyfriend speaking out for the first time. What he says happened the night Breonna was killed.

Coronavirus Cases Continue to Rise in States Across U.S.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know is the answer.</s>DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And the state and the county board say, look, voting by mail is trustworthy. It is safe. It is secure. But it's confusing. And to add to that confusion, late last night a federal judge issued three different rulings on election- related laws. They said -- the judge said basically, look, the witness signature has to be there. But if there's other witness information that's deficient, that can be cured or fixed. Now, that has not been sent down to the counties yet, John and Alisyn, so they're still in limbo at this point. But voters may get some kind of information soon on the status of their ballots, although I've been watching this for a while, and I can tell you that we thought that was going to happen several times in the past month.</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Dianne Gallagher, thank you very much for all of that reporting. And NEW DAY continues right now.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.</s>JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. Don't do Thanksgiving. It's not a warning that most people want to hear, but this morning Dr. Anthony Fauci is making it clear Thanksgiving gatherings will be dangerous.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: That is a risk. You may have to bite the bullet and sacrifice that social gathering.</s>BERMAN: So we can't have Thanksgiving this year because of the quickly deteriorating situation around the country. Five states seeing more hospitalizations than at any point during this pandemic. Nearly 60,000 new coronavirus cases were reported overnight, that's the highest daily total in the U.S. since early August, 985 deaths also reported. Each one matters. You can look at the map, all the orange and red here, that's the rising cases across the country. So remember, Dr. Fauci says we really can't have a big Thanksgiving this year, but President Trump is still holding giant rallies. This is Des Moines, Iowa. The Coronavirus Task Force, the White House coronavirus task force calls Des Moines a yellow zone, meaning no gatherings of more than 25 people. This rally is much closer to 2,500, and most of the people there are unmasked, and this is in a state where hospitalizations are accelerating -- that's the chart right there -- and one in five people who are tested are testing positive for the virus.</s>CAMEROTA: Of course, coronavirus plays into the election. More than 14 million Americans have already cast their ballots. Voter enthusiasm is at record highs. Yesterday we saw another day of very long lines for early voting across the country. And former President Barack Obama speaking out last night in a new interview. President Obama is expected to hit the campaign trail for Biden next week. We'll get to all of that. But we want to begin with the pandemic. Joining us now is Dr. Paul Casey, he is the emergency medical doctor at Berlin Hospital in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and Lina Tucker Reinders, she is the executive director for the Iowa Public Health Association. Great to have both of you with us this morning. Dr. Casey, I want to start with you because of what's happening in Wisconsin. We can put up a couple of graphs. The hospitalization there has spiked in the past few weeks. So give us a status report of what's happening at the hospitals and why we're seeing this -- what looks like this Mount Everest type curve.</s>DR. PAUL CASEY, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT AT BERLIN HOSPITAL: Good morning, thank you for having me. So we're facing a crisis in our community in terms of health care. Over the course of the past three weeks we have seen an alarming spike in COVID patients who require admission. And it's a very steep limb on this curve. What that has done has placed entire wards full of COVID patients on top of all the other patients we have to take care of. Under normal circumstances hospital capacity is typically 70 percent to 80 percent. So you throw on top of that an entire ward of patients with COVID-19, it stretches us to the limit.</s>BERMAN: I was reading, Dr. Casey, that you've been working at hospitals where they are just flat out running out of beds.</s>CASEY: That's correct. So yesterday I did a 12-hour shift at one of our critical access hospitals 40 miles away. Critical access hospitals typically don't have more than 25 beds. That particular hospital was full. I had four patients who had COVID-19 pneumonia who needed to be admitted. We were able to open up one bed in the hospital later in the day. I ended up transferring one 40 miles away. And then that filled up most of the other beds in the surrounding communities, so the next available option was a hospital 80 miles away. Those two patients chose to go home on oxygen rather than being transferred 80 miles away.</s>CAMEROTA: Dr. Casey, one more question. What's going to happen? What's the plan?</s>CASEY: Well, it's going to get worse. We are on the upper limb this curve. We predict it will peak mid-November. So unfortunately, what's probably going to happen is we're going to have to reduce essential nonemergency services like we did in the spring. We had not yet eliminated needed but nonemergency surgery. So, for example, if you need a hip replacement, that's not an emergency, but you need it. Those kinds of surgeries will have to be delayed until the pandemic is over. We have not gotten there yet, but we're very, very close.</s>BERMAN: So Dr. Reinders, you're seeing record hospitalizations in Iowa as well. I know Des Moines and the surrounding area is a yellow zone, which means there aren't supposed to be gatherings of more than 25 people, yet the president was there with a gathering of thousands of people, most of them unmasked, which is flouting the White House Coronavirus Task Force, their own guidelines. So as someone who is trying to help people, what is this picture? How does this picture make you feel?</s>LINA REINDERS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, IOWA PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION: Thank you for having me this morning. And I have to say that we are experiencing very much what Dr. Casey described in Wisconsin. Just yesterday we, again, set a record high for hospitalizations and we are very concerned about the spread that is happening here in Iowa. We will have to wait to see what in the next two weeks, what the results of the president's visit was yesterday. But what we do know is that the pandemic has made it clear that everyone's health is intertwined. We know what works to limit the spread, and it's not about politics. It's about public health and those mitigation strategies that we know that work.</s>CAMEROTA: Ms. Reinders, you pointed out something interesting that we've noticed. Obviously, the president has a big rally and then we have to wait several weeks to find out what the medical results, the health results of those rallies are, if we ever find out. Not all states contact trace after something like that. But Minnesota does. And so every day we learn more about what happened after one of his September 18th rallies in Minnesota. The new number is it turns out that 24 cases have been linked to that Trump rally, 16 of them people got sick after attending this outdoor -- it was an outdoor rally at an airport. Four of those people were at a counter rally, so they went to counter what they were hearing at the Trump rally and they got sick. And then there was another rally where people got sick on September 30th, another one on September 24th. And so, in Iowa when you see a rally like that, what happens at hospitals? Do you just -- are you preparing for a spike? Are you preparing for an outbreak? What action is taken after you see what happened last night?</s>REINDERS: Well, we are very concerned anytime we see mass gatherings. As you said in the opening, we are -- the White House task force has recommended no gatherings above 25. Our own emergency proclamation in Iowa says that mass gatherings should not occur and that if they do that social distancing should be adhered to. We did not see that last night and we are not seeing that in other events that are happening around Iowa. I do have to say that our public health professionals across the state are doing their very best job to follow up with contact tracing and make sure that individuals who have been exposed are given the correct advice to quarantine, to isolate, to get tested. What we know works is masks in combination with social distancing in combination with testing and contract tracing and quarantining, isolation. None of these mitigation strategies alone is a silver bullet, but they all work in concert together, which is why we need to adhere to all of them.</s>BERMAN: So Dr. Casey, we know from talking to doctors here in New York city and in New Jersey and in Florida and in Texas and in Arizona that this can be overwhelming. What you're going through already and what you acknowledge will only get worse over the next month can be overwhelming for people in your situation. So how are you doing now, and what do you need?</s>CASEY: The thing we need the most is for the spread of this virus to stop. We currently are doing fine. We are able to take care of all patients that come in, but we're going to soon be overwhelmed if the continued climb of this virus continues. We have enough PPE, we have enough hospital beds, but that's soon going to be different. The thing we learned very early in this pandemic was that these patients actually don't need ventilators. I think some of the high death rate we saw early on was due to the fact that we treated these patients like we treated other people with pneumonia who had an oxygen requirement, put them on the ventilator. It turns out that was the wrong strategy. So we don't really need thousands of ventilators. We need space, and we need this virus to stop.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes. On that note, Dr. Paul Casey, Lina Reinders, thank you both very much for giving us status reports on your very hard hit states right now.</s>BERMAN: And thank you both for what you're doing. You have your work cut out for you in the next few weeks. Thank you.</s>CASEY: Thank you.</s>REINDERS: Thank you.</s>CAMEROTA: OK, big story in the "New York Times" this morning, President Trump's top economic advisers were privately telling high- end donors something very different about the pandemic than they told the public. Details next.

Reporting Indicates White House Economic Advisers Provided Different Information Privately to Republican Donors than Provided Publicly about Coronavirus Pandemic; Interview with Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D- RI) About Judge Amy Coney Barrett Confirmation Hearing.

BERMAN: Developing overnight, a new report in the "New York Times" reveals what White House economic advisers were privately telling Republican donors in the early days of the pandemic, while at the same time publicly downplaying the pandemic to the American people. This is what the "Times" reports, quote, "The president's aides appeared to be giving wealthy party donors an early warning of a potentially impactful contagion at a time when Mr. Trump was publicly insisting that the threat was nonexistent. Elite traders had access to information from the administration that helped them gain financial advantage during a chaotic three days when global markets were teetering." Joining us now is Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse. He is a member of the Judiciary Committee who has been involved in Supreme Court confirmation hearings. Senator Whitehouse, first on this story from "The New York Times," a lot of your focus overall has been about the intersection of money and politics. Here is the White House reportedly saying something differently publicly than what economic advisers are saying behind closed doors. Your take?</s>SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, (D-RI): Yes, absolutely. Every voter in America needs to understand that while President Trump was telling all of us that they had the coronavirus under control, his administration was meeting secretly with big investors and letting them know that it was much worse. In effect the public was being lied to directly by the president while big Republican donors were being given the straight scoop. If that's not enough to get people to the voting booth, I don't know what is.</s>JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Any thought of investigating this? What should be the ramifications?</s>WHITEHOUSE: Well, I think there's going to be some looking into this, but not on the Senate side because on the Senate side, the gavels are all controlled by Republicans who don't dare cross with Trump on anything, never have, they just roll over for the Trump administration every single time. It's -- I call it the spines of foam moment for the Republican Party.</s>BERMAN: You obviously have been deeply involved with the confirmation hearings for Judge Amy Coney Barrett. One of the things that has been the major focus for Democrats, I think, we can agree, has been health care and the future of Obamacare.</s>WHITEHOUSE: Correct, correct.</s>BERMAN: We got a sense I think yesterday from Senator Graham and also Judge Barrett, trying to make the case that maybe, maybe the Supreme Court won't rule to overturn Obamacare in a month because of this issue of severability, the idea that you can take certain parts out of the law out without throwing the whole thing out. Let me just play a little bit of sound there.</s>JUDGE AMY CONEY BARRETT, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: If there's one provision within the statute that's unconstitutional, the question is whether that one section can simply be rendered null and excised from the statute, severed, or whether that provision is so central to the statute that its unconstitutionality, once it's pulled out the whole house of cards collapses and the presumption is always in favor of severability.</s>SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Would it be further true that if you can preserve a statute, you try to, to the extent possible?</s>BARRETT: That is true.</s>GRAHAM: Okay. That's the law, folks.</s>WHITEHOUSE: Yeah, I think they would love to get out of the predicament that they're in. The Republican Party platform says that it wants to reverse the Obamacare cases, the president has tweeted that he wants to terminate health coverage under Obamacare. All of the signals out of the administration and the big donors behind this process are that she is intended to be a judicial torpedo aimed at people's health care. But at the same time, a lot of Republicans, four of them on the Senate Judiciary Committee, are facing voters right now who think that that's a terrible idea. So they are torn between what their party's policy is and what their voters want to hear and I think that was Chairman Graham trying to create a little daylight so that Senator Tillis and Senator Ernst and himself and Senator Cornyn can go home to their states and try to create some impression with voters that there's not such a risk here.</s>BERMAN: By all signs, the committee will vote out this confirmation over in a week and then the full Senate will vote on it, and Judge Barrett will be confirmed to the Supreme Court. My question to you is -- look, that's what it looks like is going to happen. I know nothing is done until it's done. But, Senator Whitehouse, what consideration have you done to how you think you should govern and legislate going forward with a court that looks like it will be a 6-3 conservative court? How will that affect the way that you do your job?</s>WHITEHOUSE: Well, I think what we need to do is take a good look at some of the mischief that is going on at and around the Supreme Court. All of the three last nominees have had very significant procedural peculiarities about their appointments. This has all the signals of a political power grab. There is a record of the court's decisions in partisan 5-4 cases, 80-0 favoring big Republican donor interests. This is a court that doesn't operate under a code of ethics and that is the worst discloser of gifts (ph) and hospitality and travel of any of the major offices, worse than the circuit courts, worse than Congress, worse than the cabinet. I think we need to understand really what the problem is at the court. I think we are in for a long set of issues related to the Supreme Court. The Republicans basically have compromised the integrity of the court in order to fashion a court that will rule for their big donor interests. We need to look into that and figure out how to respond.</s>BERMAN: I would settle for cameras inside so we can see with our own eyes --</s>WHITEHOUSE: That would be an easy one.</s>BERMAN: -- how one branch of government does --</s>WHITEHOUSE: It's even more important to know, for instance, when somebody comes in to file an amicus brief who is paying for them.</s>BERMAN: Senator Whitehouse, Mitch McConnell says he is going to put on the floor -- this is a targeted relief bill, it is not anything close to the bill that the House and House Democrats passed five months ago, but it's $500 billion in relief to the American people, and Mitch McConnell is going to put it on the floor. It may be the last chance to get any relief money to the American people over the next week -- or next few weeks I should say before Election Day. How do you explain to Rhode Island voters who may need money your vote on this?</s>WHITEHOUSE: Well, I think this is probably a cynical political strategy by Mitch McConnell to give his troubled senators who are facing the voters now something to say that they voted for. There is a chance that if it clears the Senate, then real negotiations will begin to take place with the House and a serious bill can emerge. But I cannot go to my Rhode Island voters and say to them we helped this group of people but we didn't help these people and we didn't help you and we didn't help the state with its terrible cruel budget problems brought on by this coronavirus. This is the ultimate picking winners and losers which is what Mitch McConnell usually says he's against. So, it looks like a ploy to me. If it turns into something real, then we'll be very interested.</s>BERMAN: Senator Whitehouse, I appreciate you being with us this morning. Thank you very much.</s>WHITEHOUSE: Thank you. Good to be with you.</s>BERMAN: Former President Barack Obama getting ready to hit the campaign trail for Joe Biden. And there is a brand-new interview with a lot of talking overnight. We'll play some of the clips, next.

Biden's Record-Breaking Fundraising; Jobless Claims for Last Week

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It is unimaginable to me that you have an incumbent Republican president who had such a deficit in terms of resources, because we've seen Donald Trump reducing his buy in key strategic places clearly because he doesn't have the money to compete with Joe Biden in all of these places. That is something that is really new and it speaks to how digital fundraising and small dollar fundraising online has revolutionized politics in this country and it has shifted the edge on money from Republicans, who have traditionally held it, to Democrats.</s>JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's a mystery. In some ways it's inexplicable. And I don't think we fully know the answers yet as to how the Trump campaign can have what appears to be money problems. Now, they haven't reported their September fundraising yet. We don't know their cash on hand. But as you say, they've stopped spending in states. And I don't have the list in front of me, unfortunately right now --</s>AXELROD: Yes.</s>BERMAN: But some of their spending decisions are odd, are very odd for a campaign three weeks out.</s>AXELROD: Yes, no, they've pulled out -- they pulled their -- they pulled down parts of their buy in places like Michigan and Wisconsin in recent weeks. They pulled out of Ohio, where they're in an even race and they have to have it. No Republican has ever won without winning the state of Ohio. So they clearly, clearly have money problems. They made a big bet -- you know, they spent a billion dollars up front and they made a big bet that, a, this could create a digital fundraising base that would be renewable at this point in the campaign. And that clearly hasn't worked out to their advantage. They also have made a bet that all the organizing they've been doing online and identification of swing voters who might come their way or base voters who haven't voted the last time, that's going to pay off on -- on November 3rd. We'll see about that. There's no evidence that that is really yielding much right now. But that is their bet and we will see. But it's putting them at a huge disadvantage on television right now.</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Speaking of television right now, tonight there was supposed to be the second presidential debate.</s>AXELROD: Yes.</s>BERMAN: I don't have dueling banjos cued up here.</s>CAMEROTA: What did you do? How --</s>BERMAN: I didn't know you were going with it. I didn't know you were going with it. OK.</s>CAMEROTA: But instead there will be dueling town halls. Is Joe Biden relieved about that? Is he happy about that? Or did he somehow get outfoxed by the Trump campaign?</s>AXELROD: Well, we'll see how the town halls go. You know, the president's -- his debate appearance, his last town hall appearance on ABC did not go particularly well for him. I mean one of the odd things about this campaign is that more exposure for the president hasn't necessarily helped him. So, yes, the president will have a big forum, but I'm not sure -- you know it depends on how he performs. And if he performs differently than we've seen in the past, perhaps it will help him. If he performs in the way he did in that debate, which was disastrous for him, it won't help him. As for Biden, you know, he is in control of this race right now. He's ten points ahead. Time is a wasting for Trump. And so, you know, I think his needs are not as great as Trump's right now. He doesn't need to turn this race, he just needs to hold what he has. And so, you know, I don't think there's as much pressure on him. But, clearly, what Trump did is, you know, and he will say -- and we know what he'll say, my ratings were better than his ratings. And that -- that may be satisfying to the president, but it may not relate to what happens on November 3rd.</s>BERMAN: David Axelrod, it's great to have you on. Thank you for your loyal viewership. Appreciate it.</s>AXELROD: OK. Yes, I'm with you, brother. See ya.</s>BERMAN: All right, we do have breaking news. Thirty weeks into the pandemic, historically high layoffs continue. The stock market this morning is rattled by the lack of stimulus and other things it's seeing. CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans -- we have breaking jobless numbers, Romans. What are they?</s>CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they're numbers you're not going to like, John. And 898,000 first time unemployment claims in the week. That's 898,000. Again going in the wrong direction. We wanted to see these start to stabilize, but over and over again you've seen this number hanging in stubbornly 800,000 and now really high in the 800,000 range. When you add in the other pandemic programs that people can apply for, for the first time for like gig workers and the self-employed, there were 372,000 first-time unemployment claims. So more than a million people facing a layoff in the most recent week that we record this and filing with their states for unemployment benefits. Continuing claims give us a -- gives us a longer term picture of how many people are out there continuing to get a check week after week. That fell slightly to just over 10 million. In normal times, that would be an unheard of number, but we've seen this one beginning to trend lower. Overall, in all kinds of programs, 25 million Americans, 25 million people who were formerly employed are now receiving some sort of jobless check. So what I'm seeing here is a stagnating job market recovery. We saw some hiring in the summer, as you know, and now we're seeing those layoffs continue and the hiring start to fizzle here. There's no stimulus for a shock absorber. That's a big problem here. And if you look at the stock market this morning, those rising case counts around the world are a really big problem. John, you cannot have rising case counts and a recovering, normal economy. Those are mutually exclusive. So Wall Street waking up to that.</s>BERMAN: Wall Street, they can read the numbers. The numbers are crystal clear this morning about where this pandemic is heading.</s>ROMANS: Yes.</s>BERMAN: Christine Romans, thank you very much. So the pandemic has had such an impact on so many families. We speak to a man who lost eight family members to coronavirus, next.

Struggling Workers Call on Congress for Relief

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: The Labor Department will release its weekly jobless claims about an hour from now, but we already know, the hospitality and food industry have been very hard hit by the pandemic. With millions of workers across the country laid off. So what's going to happen to the hotel and restaurant business? Joining us now is Johanna Ortiz; she's a worker at New York's Roosevelt Hotel, which is set to close this year. And Colorado restaurant owner, Bobby Stuckey is with us as well. Guys, we're so happy to have you both here. We know this is a really hard time for both of you. Joanna, let me just start with you, you worked at the Roosevelt, I mean, this looks -- all the pictures that you've sent us, this looks like more than just a job. I mean, this looks like your family. We see you with all of your colleagues here, you know, celebrating different people's birthdays and parties and events. And so, the Roosevelt is closing, and so tell us about what this is doing to your life.</s>JOHANNA ORTIZ, WORKS AT ROOSEVELT HOTEL: Yes, hi. Well, at the Roosevelt, we started off as co-workers, we became friends and we ended up as a family. The Roosevelt has notified us now that they will close. And it's very heartbreaking. We've been there for -- well, I personally have been there for 20 years. The hotel notified us that they would be closing and because of the union, we were able to get a 90-day extension, so we now will be working until December 31st.</s>CAMEROTA: And I mean, I know that you're a single mom of two, and so what does your future look like?</s>ORTIZ: Well, right now, it's pretty uncertain. A lot of us in the hospitality industry are going to have to reinvent ourselves. It's going to be really hard. A lot of hotels are closing, jobs are not available right now. The rooms are empty. It's just really sad to see. In the 20 years, I have never seen the hospitality industry this heartbreaking.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes, Bobby, how about your life? I mean, we all know what's happening to restaurants all around the country.</s>BOBBY STUCKEY, RESTAURANT OWNER: Well, thanks for having me, Alisyn. And my heart goes out to every hospitality person in the country, Johanna, who just spoke. You know, I'm in Boulder, Colorado, we have four restaurants between here and Denver, 200 and some employees pre- COVID. And the restaurant industry, not just my restaurants, but every restaurant in the country is holding on by their fingernails, trying to get to the other side of this. And we're in a situation where since March, our industry was first closed and then across the country, reopened in very tough times and tough restrictions. And we're just fighting for our lives.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, I don't really understand the math, to tell you the truth, Bobby. I don't understand how it is sustainable that restaurants can only be open at 25 percent capacity. It just doesn't -- obviously, it's not a long-term plan. And so, what do you think the landscape is going to look like when this is all over? How many of our favorite restaurants will be gone for good?</s>STUCKEY: Well, Alisyn, you brought up a great point. And quite frankly, we can do some simple math right here, and it explains it. And that's why we need -- there actually is a plan. It's the Restaurants Act. And it's in the heroes package, and Roger Wicker has it in the Senate. So, we -- there is a plan, but no one's doing anything about it, you know? You're right. The restaurant industry is this quiet giant. We're 11 million jobs, 10 percent of the American workforce, one of the biggest private sector job creators. And we mean so much to America -- I always say, it's like a cornerstone species. You take the restaurant industry out, everything is going to be caved in. So now, we know that that's how many jobs are at stake. I think -- and what studies have shown is that our industry will probably lose half of its restaurants by February if a package is not put into place.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes, and that package, I mean, one of the things I know, on October 1st, the house did pass this $2.2 trillion coronavirus stimulus proposal, there was $120 billion in there to help independent restaurants and bars. But, you know, we know that it's in limbo. I mean, that's what Congress is -- one of the things that Congress is haggling over. And so Johanna, when you talk about how many hospitality workers will have to reinvent themselves, what does that look like for you? How will you begin to do that?</s>ORTIZ: Well, at my hotel, we're approximately 475 employees. On a daily basis, we used to have scheduled hundreds of employees on one day. Right now, we're down to about maybe 25 a day. So most of us are on layoff. We've been on layoff since March. And fortunate for me, I am a member of the union represented by the hotel, so they have been able to ensure us actually a severance pay that will be paid out today, which is going to come great for everyone who is home, and they've also ensured health coverage.</s>CAMEROTA: Thank goodness.</s>ORTIZ: So, it's one less thing to worry about.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes, thank goodness. Well, Bobby Stuckey, Johanna Ortiz, we're thinking of you. Thanks so much for sharing the personal struggle that you're going through right now, and of course, that extends to all of us, you know, how different the landscape is going to look after this pandemic. Thank you both, good luck. We'll check back and keep in touch with you both.</s>ORTIZ: Thank you.</s>STUCKEY: Thank you.</s>CAMEROTA: Coming up, we have a CNN exclusive. The U.S. government's three-year investigation into millions of dollars in Trump campaign cash. Details finally revealed and we'll tell you if there are still questions unanswered.

Early Voting Kicks Off in North Carolina.

CAMEROTA: Early voting begins today in North Carolina as President Trump heads to that battleground state. Meanwhile, a legal fight over how to fix ballot errors is leaving thousands of voters in limbo. CNN's Dianne Gallagher is live in Charlotte with more. What do we know, Dianne?</s>DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I talked to one voter who is standing here right next to me who has experienced that exact issue with those mail-in ballots. Now, there are 33 different locations here in Mecklenburg County for them to do early voting. And when I asked most people why they did not want to vote by mail because more than half a million people already have, I got the exact same answer. What did you tell me?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't trust the system. I didn't trust them mailing me something and me going through.</s>GALLAGHER: And the thing is the data shows that there might be a reason for them to feel that way.</s>GALLAGHER (voice-over): Every day for more than a month now, Lee Zacharias checks the mail and comes up empty.</s>LEE ZACHARIAS, NORTH CAROLINA VOTER: I submitted my application August 20th in person at the Board of Elections office.</s>GALLAGHER: You have not voted yet, though?</s>ZACHARIAS: I have not received a ballot.</s>GALLAGHER: Like thousands of others in North Carolina, because of the pandemic --</s>ZACHARIAS: I have a compromised immune system.</s>GALLAGHER: Zacharias is voting by mail for the first time this year or trying to. According to ballot tracks, a new tool that North Carolina voters can use to check their status, her original ballot was mailed on September 11th. She contacted Guilford County in late September and was told ballot tracks might not be accurate, so to be safe, they canceled the original and sent her a new ballot which she's still waiting to get.</s>ZACHARIAS: Makes me angry.</s>GALLAGHER: Across town, a different kind of voting problem. Forty- seven-year-old Vincent Gager returned his and his 83-year-old dad's ballots weeks ago. So, he was shocked when we told him state data shows their ballots haven't been accepted.</s>VINCENT GAGER, NORTH CAROLINA VOTER: I've been doing it the same way for years. I sign his, you know, I'm the witness because you know, I'm his son.</s>GALLAGHER: He's not alone. So far, more than 1.3 million North Carolina voters have requested an absentee ballot, and almost 40 percent of them have already been returned. But according to state data, nearly 7,200 are still under review, meaning the vote hasn't yet been accepted. Black voters make up only 16 percent of the total statewide ballot returns, but they account for almost 40 percent of the ballots listed as pending.</s>ANTHONY SPEARMAN, PRESIDENT, NAACP, NORTH CAROLINA: This is no way to run an election.</s>GALLAGHER: Dr. T. Anthony Spearman is the president of the North Carolina NAACP. He's also a member of the Board of Elections in Guilford County where nearly 6 percent ballots returned by black voters are still listed as pending.</s>SPEARMAN: So many of them are for the first time undergoing this process, and their naivety to it is causing some of these rejections.</s>GALLAGHER: As election workers review ballots for processing, they're supposed to notify a voter if they find a problem. Most issues can be fixed or cured without having to fill out a new ballot. But a slew of lawsuits surrounding what to do with ballots that are missing witness information led to the state board telling counties to do nothing and just wait for court guidance, leaving thousands of voters in limbo as the clock ticks down to election day.</s>SPEARMAN: And people are losing confidence, they're losing trust in the election cycle.</s>GALLAGHER: Creating suspicion in the shadows of North Carolina's ugly history of minority voter disenfranchisement.</s>GAGER: And I feel like they're trying to do voter suppression.</s>GALLAGHER: Still waiting on her ballot, Zacharias is suspicious, too.</s>ZACHARIAS: So I want to cast a vote.</s>GALLAGHER: Are you afraid that your state is going to prevent you from doing that?</s>ZACHARIAS: I don't know the answer.</s>GALLAGHER: And the state and the county boards say, look, voting by mail is trustworthy, it is safe, it is secure.

U.S., European Markets Fall as COVID Crisis Deepens; Harris Suspends Travel After Two Linked To Campaign Test Positive

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS HOST: Going into the last hour of trading on Wall Street and it is a difficult day. The market is trying to find some purchase and is failing, although it's picked up in the last half hour or so. But it was down on the back of the economic woes -- the coronavirus woes that seems to be everywhere at the moment. The day so far. This is what we're looking at. The E.U. Infectious Disease Chief admits on this program, Europe has failed to contain the virus. The head of Europe C.D.C. tells me shutdowns are no magic bullet. The jobless claims numbers in the U.S. are trending in the wrong direction. We need to ask what happens next. And while Donald Trump and Joe Biden prepare for rival Town Halls, the TV networks are doing a dueling for the 8:00 p.m. hour. Live from New York on Thursday. It is October the 15th. I'm Richard Quest and yes, of course, I mean business. Good evening. We start tonight with the debate that is being discussed in every country, especially in Europe and the United States and every state. It is the issue of lives versus livelihoods. As tonight, we tell you'll hear from not only the head of the C.D.C. equivalent in Europe, but also the head of the O.E.C.D., the lives versus livelihood debate, which goes to the heart of the way forward to beat, battle and recover from the coronavirus pandemic. Tonight, Europe's COVID crisis is accelerating with the grim reality setting in for investors. The markets are now starting to have a firm wobble and alarm bells are ringing across European and U.S. markets, all firmly in the red with investors piling in to safe havens like gold and government bonds. And in London, the latest major European capital to tighten restrictions where they are raising the alert level to high only hours after Paris announced curfews, some 80 percent of European countries are now seeing rises in cases. Phil Black is in London. London has now become the latest to see its status rise. But Phil, in practical terms, what are the changes that need to take that have taken place.</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's by no means a lockdown, Richard, but what it is, is a significant blow to people's personal lives during what is already a very difficult time. The key change here is that from Saturday, it will be illegal for people who don't live together to mix together indoors. So what that means is that you can't hang out with family and friends in homes, in bars, restaurants, cafes, any indoor location, which means accessing those key important relationships and maintaining them. Well, it's going to be much harder for the people of London and the other areas of England that are now moving in to that tier-two, that high risk area. In theory, people can still get together outdoors, in parks and gardens and so forth like this one. But that's not going to be really as practical as the winter deepens, as the days get colder and shorter -- Richard.</s>QUEST: Phil, the U.K., like Paris and large parts of France and now Germany is suffering from this rising number of cases pretty much to where we were earlier in the year. Is there a feeling that the government has lost control here?</s>BLACK: I think there is a degree of acceptance in certain areas that the virus is now out of control. That's what we're seeing. We're seeing all the key markers trending in the wrong direction. Almost 19,000 new cases confirmed today across the U.K. There's around 150,000 people spread out across U.K.'s hospitals at the moment being treated for coronavirus. All this means is that it is growing, yes, but it is not growing at the same rate everywhere. There are clear hotspots of which say London has been identified as one today. And so that is why the government is pushing for this regional tiered approach. And it believes that it is the right balance in terms of suppressing the virus, but maintaining wherever possible as much freedom and as much economic freedom as possible.</s>BLACK: But while the government is pushing that approach, there is a growing lobby of people who object to that and say the time has come, including we've heard from the government's own scientific advisers, the time has come for what they call a circuit break lockdown. Two to three, maybe four weeks of a national lockdown, so that everyone can take the time to reassess, catch some breathing space, and slow down the virus enough and get organized in order to deal with the coming winter period. That is what we are particularly hearing from northern regions in England that the government is now trying to nudge into the highest level of lockdown. But they are resisting that because they believe that it is not appropriate, that it won't work, that it's a flawed plan, and they don't believe they're getting the economic support they need in order to make that work. So there is something of a standoff in this country at the moment, Richard, between those who believe the regional approach is appropriate and those who want a stronger national, perhaps short-term lockdown in order to try and get ahead of this virus ahead of winter.</s>QUEST: Phil black who is in London. The question of targeted lockdowns, well, the head of the European Infectious Diseases Center says that targeted lockdowns are not the answer. They are not a magic bullet that will put right the problem. The latest measures to limit nightlife, indoor mixing at home, according to the E.C.D.C., these measures won't single handedly stop the spread. In other words, it'll be stronger testing and tracing, the traditional mechanisms that are key to long term containment. I spoke to Andrea Ammon earlier and asked her whether or not these lockdowns even though they're not a magic bullet, will they be enough?</s>ANDREA AMMON, DIRECTOR, EUROPEAN CENTER FOR DISEASE PREVENTION AND CONTROL: The basis of these measures in March and April was that, you know, it was a package. You know, it was everything was stopped and everything came to a standstill and it worked very well because it was within weeks, we were down to 20 percent of the cases. But it, of course, also had severe complications and side effects on society, on the mental health of people and the economy, of course, and with the measures now are more refined, in principle, they are still targeting reduced meeting of people and distance, but it's now more targeted to specific actions.</s>QUEST: Do we know -- and I'm not sure this is something the E.C.D.C. even looks at as opposed to national governments -- do we know those social situations are of most concern?</s>AMMON: I think it's any situation that is bringing people close together. I think that what is what we have to assume, and it is just that the measures now they look, they are more refined in order to avoid the blunt instrument that has been used in March and April.</s>QUEST: Do you believe that they will be sufficient? Or are we inevitably realistically going to require bigger, longer lockdowns?</s>AMMON: I think that is what -- bigger, longer lockdown is what everybody wants to avoid. So, I think we are now in a phase where these measures are applied, we have to see unfortunately for a longer period of two to four weeks to see an effect because of the long incubation period. So we will -- we cannot say yet whether this will work.</s>QUEST: The reason I pushed this point is because in various countries, measures have been taken and I agree it is political oppositions that are saying this, various measures are being taken. But already the experts say this is not going to be enough. The measures are being more in hope than expectation. So are you satisfied that the measures being taken will be sufficient? They are necessary, but will they be sufficient or is it your gut feeling law is going to be required?</s>AMMON: Well, the point is, I have said this before, these so-called non- pharmaceutical interventions or more popular, lockdown measures are not a magic bullet. So they alone will not control the epidemic. What is necessary in parallel is that all efforts are made to find cases, to identify contact persons quickly, put them in quarantine if they had high risk contact and have a reporting system in place that really tracks cases fast. I think that is essential to have in place in parallel to all of these measures. These measures alone will not do the job.</s>QUEST: But Director, we are failing here. I mean, not you, but as a society in our countries, we are failing to get a grip on</s>COVID. AMMON: Yes, I think it's certainly a very difficult virus to control. I mean, that is something that was known even before that a virus that is easily transmitted to from human to human via the air and can be transmitted by asymptomatic people is extremely difficult, if not impossible to really control completely. I mean, what we need here is really that everybody in the population understands that their behavior makes the difference.</s>QUEST: That's the Director of the E.C.D.C. and the view on the lives side of the argument, if we look at the livelihood side of the argument, and we remember, of course, it's not a zero sum game. Let's turn to the O.E.C.D. You're about to hear from the head of the O.E.C.D., who says that the economic damage is unprecedented from what's taking place. The organization itself, the O.E.C.D. is a 37-member international body comprising of course of the advanced economic economies, developing economic and social policy. It's roughly half of the global GDP, and it works with non-members like China, India, and Brazil. Angel Gurria is the O.E.C.D. Secretary General, in Paris. You were listening there to the Director of the E.C.D.C., Angel, now the issue becomes whether or not the economic damage, the measures being taken are sufficient to mitigate much of the problem.</s>ANGEL GURRIA, SECRETARY GENERAL, O.E.C.D.: There has been a very strong response. But obviously, the measures are not enough. And second, the measures cannot start and then stop because obviously, there's still a lot of support that has to be provided. So let's not make the same mistake we made in 2008-2009 to withdraw the support, withdraw this efforts too soon, because otherwise, we'll have to pay a very, very heavy price for it.</s>QUEST: But where do you stand, Secretary General, where do you stand on this question of, you know, avoiding the full lockdown because it will be particularly damaging, if not devastating to the global economy to do this a second time. So in a sense, we are now risking lives, because we are reluctant on livelihoods.</s>GURRIA: Frankly, the dilemma between lives and livelihoods was a false dilemma in the first wave, and it is a false dilemma today. What we have to do, and now the fact that we have a second wave is the best evidence that we have, is throw everything we've got at beating the enemy, at beating the virus. We do not yet have a vaccine. Let's push very hard and again, everything we've got to develop a vaccine, to develop a medicine, but in the meantime, do everything that we know in order to beat the virus. That is then going to mitigate the cost, the economic and social consequence if we beat the virus sooner rather than later.</s>QUEST: At what point though do you become worried global -- I mean, we had Gita Gopinath from the I.M.F., who you know very well on the program, and I was asking her about whether or not GDP debt that is over 100 percent is a worry. Everybody says, keep spending, but now we're starting to hear from Joe Biden, more taxes; from in the U.K., more taxes. At what point does this spending become a problem?</s>GURRIA: Right now, Richard, we have to keep investing, not spending in beating the virus. This is the best short term, the best medium term, and the best long term investment that we can make. Then after that, what we will have to deal is with the consequences, but there will be smaller consequences or not as heavy consequences or not as onerous consequences, because we beat the virus easier and/or faster, or, you know, earlier.</s>QUEST: I saw your numbers on what you're predicting for global GDP, basically, down roughly say four percent, give or take. But what's -- but that doesn't tell the full story as we've discussed on this program. It is this K-shaped recovery. Those without and those in poverty are getting worse. Those who've got assets, portfolios, and resources are recovering, and in some cases doing well. So how does policy need to change?</s>GURRIA: It needs to be more selective going forward. In the beginning, it was inevitable, you know, you'll throw resources in anything that moved, and you know, the informal labor, the people who are losing the employment and the small and medium enterprises, the tourism sector, et cetera. Right now, you have to be more selective, first of all, because you don't have resources to support any of the frail industries, but also, because there will be sectors, which may not be able to recover as we know them today. There will be companies that may not be able to survive as we know them today. There will be jobs that we might not be able to save simply by, you know, throwing money at them, because it will no longer be viable. So yes, there will have to be a reallocation of resources. There will also have to be choices to be made, which are always difficult choices. But we have to be much more selective in this second round when we fight against the virus.</s>QUEST: Angel Gurria, it is always good to have you, sir. You're looking well and that's good, too. Thank you for joining us on</s>QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. GURRIA: And congratulations on a very happy occurrence, a very happy event.</s>QUEST: Thank you, referring of course because I got married at the weekend. Thank you very much, Angel. It's good to have you.</s>GURRIA: Indeed.</s>QUEST: Thank you, sir. Now, when we come back after the break, Angel was talking there about jobs, and the targeting of jobs. We will have the CEO of Manpower, who will join us on exactly where the jobs are being lost, the nonviable jobs. And the viability very much on the stock market of BTS, the boy band that has now gone public, and a roaring success. Back to the news, in a moment.

U.S. Unemployment Claims Show Weakening Job Market; Queen Makes First Public Appearance Since Pandemic

QUEST: The U.S. markets and how they've traded. They've got a lot on their minds at the moment, and the recent strong rallies seem to have evaporated for the time being. Look at how today went. Today was low at the start. And then it slowly picked up throughout the course of the afternoon. We're at the best of the day, and this is despite the stalled stimulus talks and the weakening job recovery, 900,000 first time claims last week. It is up from the previous week when the economists have looked for a decline. Julia Chatterley is with me. Julia, I mean, the numbers are what they are. And it's not surprising. But we are all having a better day than first of all -- I am interested, very interested in what Angel Gurria, I'm not sure whether you were able to hear him, talking about the necessity for targeted stimulus and job creation plans, recognizing that many jobs may no longer be viable are not worth actually protecting.</s>JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, "FIRST MOVE": I couldn't agree more with him. The first stimulus package that we did, Richard, was just about getting the money out there. Now, we recognize that if you put the hands -- if you put money in the hands of small businesses, they retain workers. If you invest, and he made a specific difference there between spending and investing, if you invest in ways to provide protections for people, for businesses, to allow people to safely go into their businesses and to protect people to invest in testing, you will see less spending going forward. Otherwise, you have to buy the recovery in the absence of a plan, Richard. As we've discussed, tackle the virus, you have to spend more to buy the recovery.</s>QUEST: Is it you're feeling looking at the market, and I know it's sort of you know, lick your finger and see which way the winds blow on any given day, but is there a feeling that there's a dose of reality, permeating investors fixed goals, or at least the market's thick skull, that this is not going to be over by Christmas?</s>CHATTERLEY: You mean the virus isn't going to be over by Christmas? Yes, I think the market knows that. I think the market is waiting on a vaccine and I think that's the most important thing, in terms of a determinant of sentiment. What I also think the market is pricing in here is stimulus at some point. Investors know they can wait for that financial aid package. The problem is, the real economy can't wait. And actually, that's what the job states today told me, Richard. The real economy is still struggling. Investors can wait for when the next package arrives.</s>QUEST: Finally, Julia, I'm going to throw you a big question for a brief answer, always the way. Julia, the election, I can't work out where it fits in to all of this.</s>CHATTERLEY: I think, and Goldman Sachs said it this week, and I agree. The vaccine outweighs earnings season right now and the fundamentals, it outweighs political risk. We have priced out some of the concern, I think about instability after the election not getting a result and I think just somebody winning this selection, which is what the polls are suggesting, is allowing investors to be a little bit more complacent about the election.</s>QUEST: Julia, good to see you. Have a good program tomorrow. Thank you. Julia Chatterley from "First Move." Jonas Prising is with me, the CEO of ManpowerGroup, as we digest this information and look at the jobs. The numbers suggesting that the jobless claims, I was going to say, a stalling with arguably getting worse as a second wave now starts to hit the United States.</s>JONAS PRISING, CEO, MANPOWERGROUP: I think I would express it as the rate of improvement is clearly slowing down. So when you think about it, Richard, in February, the unemployment rate in the United States was 3.5 percent, and then at the worst part of the pandemic, it was over 14 percent and now it's back down to 7.8 percent. So it's clearly improved.</s>PRISING: But the rate of improvement as you can see from the new unemployment claims has really stalled whilst the continuous employment claims continue to come down. So the labor market is continuing to get better, but the rate of improvement is clearly slowing down.</s>QUEST: I was interested in your survey and studies. I was looking at it, 31 percent of employers that you talked to believe that the hiring won't return to predictive -- to pre-pandemic levels until June 2021 or never. In other words, this -- it's back to this point, I keep harping on about with Angel Gurria and with Julia, it is back to this idea of viable jobs and we don't really know the full ramifications of that.</s>PRISING: Well, I think it is back to the idea that we're faced with a slow, uneven and gradual recovery, both in the economy and in the labor markets, and within that recovery, you will have winners and losers. And for a while, you will have losers that are going to be permanent losers where the jobs are not going to be available, but you will also have current losers that will see a resurgence of employment as the vaccine comes out and the situation improves. And the numbers you cited there, Richard, are you know, we did the same numbers we looked at. We did the same survey five months ago. And at that point, employers were -- more than half of the employers were saying no, no, we think things are going to come back to normal by the end of the year. So that was what the majority thought then. Moving forward, just five months later, you know, only a third of them believe it will be quick and many -- the majority now thinks it'll be longer and take more time than they originally thought. So clearly, moving from a V-shaped recovery to more of a U-shaped recovery.</s>QUEST: That V to U when at the same time as we've got the K involved with those who are doing well versus not. But I want to get your quick take on this idea of working from home. Now, I'm still working from home, even though it looks otherwise, I'm not sure whether you're at home, you look like you've got a nice bit of art on the back walls, I suspect you might be at home. I mean, all we all settled in? You saw Microsoft's announcement that certain people will be able to work from home permanently. How much of this is a true permanent shift in work in practice?</s>PRISING: I think the permanent shift is the realization both from an employee perspective and from an employer perspective. But frankly, the technology that we've had, you know, at our fingertips for many years, can make a very significant shift in how we engage with the workplace. But what we don't believe is that this shift is going to lead to a massive shift to remote working as a whole, but rather that it's going to be the response that workers have asked for many years, and we know it's one of the things that they desire the most, which is flexibility to work in a way that fits within their work life and their personal lives. And I think that is going to be the lasting legacy of this pandemic, that worker flexibility and the choices that they have and employer's comfort level at making those choices available to them is going to be the new normal, and that's going to be very beneficial for employees that can combine personal and work life in a much better way, and also for employers as they look at the benefits of the way of working. But I do believe that most employers and employees in the end want to have a level of interaction with their colleagues so that they can drive the business forward. It's just going to look a little bit different, but we don't believe that there's a tidal wave over remote working coming on a permanent basis. This is a reaction to a health crisis and an economic crisis that eventually we'll find its way somewhere in the middle again.</s>QUEST: Jonas, thank you. Good to have you on the program. Always lovely to hear your views on this. Thank you for joining us this evening. Now, in just a moment, the country that is doing the best in the in Europe or the E.E.A., we will have the Prime Minister of Norway. Look at the numbers and whatever Norway is doing right, one begs the question, why don't other countries follow? It has the lowest rate of infections on the continent, in a moment.

Thailand Bans Public Gatherings As Protests Swell

QUEST: Hello. I'm Richard Quest. There's a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS coming up. We'll have the Prime Minister of Norway. He'll join me after the news headlines as we discuss what Norway's done that's given it the lowest rate of infections 14-day moving average in the -- on the continent. And also, BTS, the boy band, the BTS boy band IPO and it's all a roaring success. You have to wait for BTS at least until after the news headlines because this is CNN. And on this network, the news it always comes first. The World Health Organization says about 80 percent of European countries are seeing a rise in COVID cases. On Wednesday, Italy record its highest daily increasing cases since the beginning of the pandemic. London and Paris have imposed tighter restrictions to combat the spread. Thailand's government has issued an emergency decree banning gatherings of more than five people in Bangkok. It's designed to stifle prodemocracy demonstrations that have gripped the country for months. This</s>ERNA SOLBERG, PRIME MINISTER OF NORWAY: Well, we have closely been following our numbers. And we've been both tracing the origin of every people who get sick, everybody that I've met, we have quarantine people. And we have this strategy of when you have a local outbreak, we are putting a lot of things in force to make sure that it doesn't increase. And we will have outbreaks in different cities and parts of the country. We do have a larger number in Oslo but overall, we seem that local governments in Norway together with their national government is handling the tracing of the infection, stopping it counting and isolating people. And then we get good numbers, I think -- but it's a -- it's a costly and of course, a manpower, intensive work the way we are doing it.</s>QUEST: This idea though, if I was to talk -- if I was to talk to any Prime Minister in the E.U. or the U.K., they would tell me that they have tests and trace in place. But they've got this, that and the other, they would make all the same noises. But their results are very different. So again, you know, what do you think that you've done right in that sense or from your observation, were you stricter in opening up in the way you handle the opening up? SOLBERG; We were stricter in the beginning because we had a large influx that came from winter holiday places in Italy and Austria. We got -- we were on -- I think number four on the list in March of people infected, we managed to put in place a lot of strict measures at that time. And the Norwegian people responded by being good at social distancing, make -- taking their own precautions. We didn't have to stop that much of the economic activity that a lot of other countries and because people are really following the rules and regulations. And I think still we are blessed with the fact that people have trust in their government trust in their local authorities and that they are following the rules and regulations and using social distancing as their most important measure that you can have.</s>QUEST: You're the second person on this program tonight to talk about trusting their government, the head of the ECDC, who you may well be familiar with said exactly that. Do you think many countries are paying the price of a deficit in trust?</s>SOLBERG: Well, I think yes, in one way or the other thing is that we have - - we of course have seen which parts of our societies are more vulnerable. Of course, people who are in low income, where the -- where the housing conditions are different and more difficult, migrant workers and our minorities and we've tried to work very closely with health personnel with minority background themselves to reach out to -- the minority groups in Norway to make sure that they also can listen to the information that you have to understand that in a more diverse society, not everybody is following Norwegian news and vision press conferences. They will have to be reached by other measures. And I think that also makes it easier for us. We are a small country; we are transparent and -- but we are also quite conscious on the fact that we need to make our information and our knowledge accessible to people and minorities.</s>QUEST: All right. But</s>SOLBERG: It's not fair. And it's going to become a more increasing problem for world economy for business because some of these folks can't in fact do their job anymore because their workers have to be changed. They can't continue to say like this. And what we will do is that that will -- that will, in fact, increase the costs, it will increase our problems with delivering goods. And I think this is a part of a very large economic problem that we have to deal with. And that's why I believe that all countries should make sure that this is possible to change. The seafarers on the boats will be -- is important for the seafarers and their families. But it's also important for business. Prime Minister, very grateful that you're taking time to talk to us today. Thank you. The Prime Minister of Norway joining me there. Now, tonight in the United States, there's a television event that you won't want to miss, but you're going to have to miss one of them. Biden and Trump town halls at the same time. Who came first and who should have changed? After the break. It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS and you're most welcome.

Networks And Candidates Compete In Dueling Town Halls.

QUEST: All right. So, forget the ability to tape or TiVo or do whatever it is people do with digital recordings. Tonight at 8:00 p.m. in the United States, you have a choice to make. Do you wish to watch a town hall with the president of United States Donald Trump or with his opponent? The former Vice President Joe Biden. You can't watch them both at the same time where you can if you've got two T.V.s, but let's not go there. You know what I'm talking about. The candidates are holding jeweling town halls. To be fair, Biden was first on ABC after Trump walked out of the debate, or the virtual debate. Trump then came along on NBC. It was supposed to be a town hall debate to compare the two. Instead, there are separate platforms. But as Newt Gingrich might have said, the Donald Trump, he did say he is the executive producer now of the largest, most significant reality T.V. show in the world. He'll be delighted by tonight, who'll get the most viewers? Who will watch? But it's been like this since the start of his candidacy, his nomination, and his presidency. Let's go back through the T.V. Presidency of Donald Trump. It started right at the beginning with that escalator. The escalator down Trump Tower in 2015, when he described Mexican immigrants</s>BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: He does. This is what he does. He creates these made for T.V. moments. He thinks the ratings are the most important metric. Unfortunately, they are not -- or unfortunately, they are not. The more important metric right now are the polls, the President is losing in all the major polls, so he needs to appeal to a broader swath of the country. Maybe he can do that on NBC tonight. But I'm very skeptical, Richard, because everything we've seen from the president, every single day, is an appeal to the base. Earlier today, he called the NB -- he trashed NBC. He attacked Comcast, the parent company, and he made fun of Savannah Guthrie, the host of this event. So, that's typical Donald, no signs of him changing his tone a head of the town hall.</s>QUEST: Why? Why would you do it? This is what I don't understand. If you're going to be on NBC tonight, why would you -- you're our chief media correspondent, why would you trash the network and the anchor that's going to be questioning you tonight?</s>STELTER: Well, I think, number one, he speaks to different audiences at different times. So, he was speaking to his Fox News audience this afternoon, saying that NBC is a con job. He was also suggesting that it's all going to be a setup. So, he was giving excuses in case it doesn't go well. He's working the refs ahead of time, and giving excuses, so that, you know, if the questions are hard, if he has a bad performance, he can say it was all set up. And that's typical Trump as well.</s>QUEST: Brian, should NBC firstly have scheduled this at all? And secondly, scheduled it against ABC? ABC was first out of the gate in what -- in what they've done. Was it wrong, as the New York Times says today that, you know, that the viewers, the American voter is poor as a result?</s>STELTER: Yes, this is a clear misstep by Cesar Conde, the head of the NBC News group. He's been in the job for a few months now. This is a high- profile misstep by him. Maybe it was his underlings. Maybe it was lieutenants that made this decision. But his name is on the statement today saying, look, we share in the frustration that these events are happening at the same time. NBC's excuse is that Biden was on a town hall on NBC at 8:00 p.m. last week. So, the network says it's giving Trump the exact same treatment this time. That's the excuse, but it doesn't really add up. There are a lot of other nights at 8:00 p.m. that Trump could have had a town hall in NBC. It seems that the President wants this head-to-head matchup with Biden and NBC is giving the president what he wants. And that's why so many staffers inside the network are complaining to me and other reporters saying, this feels like collusion. It feels like NBC is colluding with the President. Why are we doing this? There's a lot of internal -- inside turmoil. But at the end of the day, these two town halls are going to happen. They're going to happen at the same time. And ultimately, Richard, viewers are the losers, because there should have been a real debate. There should have been a real debate between these two men, but instead, they're going to be talking past each other, which is kind of a symbol of our divided media landscape.</s>QUEST: You summed it up beautifully, as always, so grateful. Brian Stelter, thank you for joining us. OK. BTS IPO, what will happen next, after the break?

Two Kamala Harris Campaign Officials Test Positive For COVID- 19; Trump Continues Holding Large Rallies; Coronavirus Cases Spiking Across Country.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The ATP has ignited allege that this incident happened, and they call on all players to abide by coronavirus protocols or, of course, risk jeopardizing these tournaments being carried out -- Brianna.</s>BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right, Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much for that. And our special coverage continues now with Jake Tapper.</s>ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.</s>JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. We begin today with the national lead and what certainly looks a lot like a second wave of the coronaviruses. As the United States enters the fall and winter months we are seeing a country on this pandemic map blanketed in red, 35 states showing an increase in new cases, all headed in the wrong direction. This is up 16 percent from last week, new case average, more than 52,000 per day. At this rate, the U.S. will likely hit eight million cases of coronavirus by the end of the week, or even nine million by Election Day, November 3. Even worse, hospitalizations across the country are also rising. Yesterday, that number was about 37,000, up nearly 10,000 from two weeks ago. And with nearly 1,000 deaths reported just yesterday, the death average also kicked up slightly to 724 dead Americans every day, 724. Wearing masks in public and socially distancing remain the best way to stop the virus from spreading and to protect other people from getting COVID if you contract it. And yet President Trump continues to undermine that effort. He completely misrepresented a CDC study just minutes ago, telling this to a crowd in Greenville, North Carolina. And, again, let me reiterate before I show this clip, this is not true, what the president said. This is false.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: How about all the masks? They keep saying, nobody wears a mask, wear the masks, although then they come out with things today. Did you see, CDC, that 85 percent of the people wearing the mask catch it, OK?</s>TAPPER: That is not true; 85 percent of people wearing masks do not catch it. That is a falsehood. The CDC study he's referring to was of people who had coronavirus, and a high percentage of them claimed they had worn masks. That's true. But, also, more than 40 percent of them had had close contact with somebody who had COVID, usually family members. The study was looking at how people got COVID, and found that restaurants dining was a key risk factor, because it's a place where people who wear masks take off their masks. It is distressing that the main source of false information about this pandemic continues to be President Trump, who took an oath to protect the American people and is doing the opposite. A better source of information, Dr. Anthony Fauci, is warning, Americans may have to -- quote -- "bite the bullet" and sacrifice some Thanksgiving gatherings.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: Understanding that everyone has this traditional emotional, understandable, warm feeling about the holidays, we really have to be careful this time, and each individual family evaluate the risk/benefit of doing that.</s>TAPPER: In Wisconsin, where there is a 21 percent positivity rate, four times the national average, the state for the first time ever reported more than 1,000 people hospitalized. CNN's Adrienne Broaddus joins us now live from West Allis, Wisconsin. Adrienne, you're outside a field hospital right now. This is what -- part of what the state's doing to prepare for an onslaught of new cases?</s>ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is part of the state's effort. And just moments ago, we learned there are more than 3,700 new cases, more than 3,700, Jake. And 17 more people have died since we talked to you this time yesterday. Listen, we talk a lot about the numbers, but those numbers represent people. And behind those people are families. And, today, health officials told us it's only going to get worse. Now, Governor Evers has issued an emergency order allowing health care workers from other states to practice here in the state of Wisconsin, to help treat the surge. Another record Wisconsin didn't want to set, more than 1,000 people in the hospital. If you think about it, that's about a 25 percent increase of hospitalizations in the last seven days, compared to this time last week. That's all information we got from DHS. The bottom line, the ICUs are strained. Every region of the state is reporting a current staff shortage or imminent staff shortages -- Jake.</s>TAPPER: All right, Adrienne Broaddus in Wisconsin, stay safe. In Colorado, Democratic Governor Jared Polis is now warning, hospital capacity is in jeopardy. CNN correspondent Lucy Kafanov is live for us in Denver. Lucy, Colorado seeing some of its highest hospitalization numbers since May.</s>LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Jake, to the point that officials are now describing this as the third wave of the virus, with hospitalizations and new cases surging across the state, Denver County leading that spike. But we have had cases reported in every single county across the state at the moment. Officials reports 274 active COVID-19 outbreaks this week. That sets a new record. And these are largely concentrated around schools, day care facilities, bars, restaurants, churches, very concerning, as businesses continue to operate and folks keep sort of going out with these numbers spiking. Now, in terms of the hospitalizations, that is a major concern that Governor Polis did indeed warn about, 317 confirmed COVID-19 patients across the state of Colorado right now. Just to put that number in context, that's nearly a 60 percent increase since October 1, less than the month being finished, effectively, those numbers continuing to rise, and 77 percent of the state's ICU bed capacity currently in use. So, this is very worrying, considering the fact that we are heading into the winter. Flu season is just around the corner. And so that hospital capacity remains a very large concern, Jake.</s>TAPPER: All right, Lucy Kafanov in Denver, Colorado, thanks so much. Joining us now to discuss, the chief of infectious diseases at Mass General, Dr. Rochelle Walensky. Dr. Walensky, I want to start with this complete misrepresentation of a CDC study that President Trump said today. Again, it is not true that 85 percent of mask-wears get the virus. It is completely not true. Explain how damaging this could be, because, obviously, wearing masks is the best way right now for us to get ahold of this pandemic.</s>DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Good afternoon, Jake. So, I want to be very clear. This was a CDC study, and they interviewed people who had gotten a disease and had not gotten the disease. And what they found in those interviews is that people who did not get the disease wore masks more frequently than people who did get the disease. It is true that they report that some people who became infected with COVID were wearing masks in public. But it's also the case and the top-line results from this study was that, if you got COVID, you're 2.5 times more likely to have eaten in a restaurant the two weeks prior. And that is certainly a place where masks are taken off.</s>TAPPER: At President Trump's rally last night in Iowa -- let's put up some of those images -- the crowd was mostly maskless. There was obviously no distancing. Everybody was bunched closely together. Fauci told me the other day that this is asking for trouble. This is the exact opposite of what the president and any campaign should be doing right now. You, as an infectious disease expert, when you see images like this, when you see President Trump barnstorming the country, going from state to state holding these events, what do you think?</s>WALENSKY: You know, the Trump administration is now endorsing a plan that is moving towards herd immunity, that is, people can get infected and we will therefore then get more people who are immune. I want to be very -- and these rallies sort of suggest that. I want to be clear that herd immunity is a vaccination plan. It is not a mass infection plan. And so, when I see footage like that, I worry. And let me tell you why I worry. We know that there's been a massive amount of excess mortality over the last many months. A new study came out last week that demonstrated only about two-thirds of that excess mortality is actually even related to COVID. There's been a third of that excess mortality that is simply related to the fact that people can't access to medical care, hospital capacity is at its limits. And so they can't even access medical care for routine things that really keep them well.</s>TAPPER: And so, if they're -- if the president's -- whether or not these rallies are part of a plot for infection, so as to create this deranged herd immunity idea, which would kill somewhere between one and two million Americans, or not, you're saying the idea of more infections means even more deaths unrelated to COVID, people who can't get medicine, can't go to the hospital, et cetera.</s>WALENSKY: It relates to deaths on -- massive deaths related to COVID. Some have called it mass murder. But it's more than that. Even if you can protect yourself from COVID, if you can't access medical care when you need it, then you can't protect yourself from other things, heart attacks, strokes, and everything else.</s>TAPPER: And experts have been warning that the colder months will almost certainly bring a second wave or a resurgence of coronavirus. You're in Massachusetts. I'm sure that's a concern. Now we're seeing at least seven states with record high hospitalization numbers. Is this the second wave, or do you think it's going to get even worse?</s>WALENSKY: I'm worried it's going to get quite worse, actually. I mean, we are seeing numbers now that reflect infection rates that have happened about two weeks ago. Two weeks ago in many areas of the country, including the Northeast, we were still able to be outside. I worry that this has just been sort of laissez-faire behavior. And that is going to get even worse in the weeks to come.</s>TAPPER: Dr. Fauci is asking Americans to reconsider any Thanksgiving plans that they may have for November. He says people who may be coming from out of town, who may have been on planes and airports may pose a risk. Is there a safe way to do Thanksgiving? I mean, if everybody got tested ahead of time, a week ahead of time and a day ahead of time? I mean, is there a way to do it?</s>WALENSKY: I would agree with Dr. Fauci. Certainly, I think if people can get a test a week ahead of time, stay quarantined during that week, then we can talk about how it might be safe together. But, again, when you start thinking about how travel mixes in with that, it becomes complicated. And not everybody has the capacity or the ability to take all that time off to be able to quarantine to do it properly.</s>TAPPER: Can you explain how the risk of gathering with family also depends on what state you or your guests are coming from? What factors should Americans consider?</s>WALENSKY: Right. So part of the issue is sort of the local community. We know rates of COVID and testing rates in, for example, Wisconsin are over 21 percent. If you had family members coming in from Wisconsin or from similarly high states, then you could imagine that you are -- you might be more likely to have more asymptomatic people at your dinner table than you would otherwise expect.</s>TAPPER: Fourteen public health organizations recently condemned what you just condemned, herd immunity, this deadly opinion that's proposed in this position paper that the White House has been praising. Fauci this morning said this. Take a listen.</s>FAUCI: If you just let things rip and let the infection go, no masks, crowd, it doesn't make any difference, that, quite frankly, George, is ridiculous.</s>TAPPER: Why do you think this idea keeps getting traction?</s>WALENSKY: It's now an idea that's been endorsed by the administration. There have been numerous epidemiologists who have endorsed this position. I want to be very clear that this is what Sweden did. This is what Sweden did and failed, that position that essentially says that you can take vulnerable people, you can take people in nursing homes and protect them, and that you can instead let young people who otherwise wouldn't have severe disease get infected and reach herd immunity. The CDC has estimated that about 47 percent of our population is at higher risk of COVID. And how we would somehow protect those vulnerable communities is just destined to fail, as it did in Sweden.</s>TAPPER: All right, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Senator Kamala Harris' campaign staffers test positive. The V.P. nominee is now off the trail. Who were they in contact with? What could this mean for the homestretch run? And people getting up before dawn and waiting hours to vote in one critical state, but the lines may be more than a sign of just voter enthusiasm. Stay with us.

Fauci Says Safe and Effective Vaccine May Be Widely Available in April

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Pun intended</s>JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Let's talk about vaccines if we can. Dr. Fauci said a safe and effective vaccine could be available by April. The World Health Organization is saying that young healthy people however might not get a vaccine until 2022.</s>COHEN: Right, I think sometimes, Jake, that we think, oh, when there's a vaccine, I'll just go to my doctor's office, or I'll go to my local pharmacy and get it. No big deal. It is a big deal. Because we're trying to vaccinate an entire country and that can't happen all at once. So there have been efforts to prioritize. And there are different schemes for prioritizing. But all of them pretty much put young people at the very end because they don't tend to get very sick from COVID. They don't tend to die from COVID. They spread it. But first we're going to protect first responders. Doctors and nurses and EMTs, elderly people, people in nursing homes. Young people come at the end of the list. And it could take a while to get them.</s>TAPPER: Although obviously if they have pre-existing conditions. That would put them --</s>COHEN: That's true.</s>TAPPER: -- ahead on the list.</s>COHEN: Correct</s>TAPPER: And you have some new reporting --</s>COHEN: Good point.</s>TAPPER: -- on the stalled AstraZeneca vaccine trail. What's up with that?</s>COHEN: That's right, so this has been going on for more than a month. And we started asking why is it taking so long and a source explained it to me. So let's take a look at the timeline. So the AstraZeneca trials started, the Phase III trials started on the 31st. The pause was announced September 9th, so you can see that it didn't go on for very long. And then it wasn't until the week of October 5th, so about a month later, that AstraZeneca got their safety data to the FDA according to this source. And I was speaking to a former commissioner of the FDA. And he said, look, this is going to take a while potentially. Because, you know, the FDA is going to have a lot of questions. Two volunteers have become sick. They've developed neurological symptoms, both of them and that's a red flag. When you see there are the same kinds of symptoms in more than one volunteer, that is a red flag. The FDA is going to have a lot of questions -- Jake.</s>TAPPER: And that's why you don't listen to politicians who want a vaccine released --</s>COHEN: Right.</s>TAPPER: -- before an election for political reasons when there's safety measures to be taken. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much.</s>COHEN: Thanks.</s>TAPPER: Close to 18 million people tested positive, just as many have been thrown into poverty since this crisis began. That shocking number next.

Long Lines Across North Carolina As Early Voting Begins; California GOP Defying State Orders to Remove Unofficial Ballot Drop Boxes; Trump Claims U.S. Is Doing Fine with Coronavirus.

TAPPER: Back now with our MONEY LEAD, there is still no financial relief for millions of Americans suffering economically because of the pandemic. And today Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican Majority Leader in the Senate made it clear there is virtually no chance of reaching any sort of stimulus deal before the election. McConnell plans to put a $500 billion proposal on the floor next week and says he will not go any higher despite the fact his offer is about a quarter of what the Democrats have proposed. And even President Trump has signaled he'd be willing to go bigger than both Democrats and Republicans. CNN's business anchor Julia Chatterley joins us now. And Julia, the administration, the Trump administration reportedly offering more money in some areas but it seems pretty unlikely they will get close to Democrats who are demanding $2.2 trillion in the package. And what does this mean for people?</s>JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the stimulus money Muppet show, quite frankly, Jake, where everyone disagrees with everyone. You're right quite. President Trump earlier today suggested that he'd be willing to go above $1.8 trillion. Within hours Senator Mitch McConnell had ruled that sum out. And why would the Democrats ultimately agree to a paltry $500 billion next week when they've ruled out money that is so much higher than that. It leaves people simply without hope of any support coming at any time soon. But I actually don't think though the bigger disagreement here is on the size of the package, it's simply how the money is spent. And while these guys continue to argue and don't act, people are simply left with nothing. And that's unacceptable.</s>TAPPER: The recovery is slowing, what recovery there was. And that's exactly what the data suggests, the data we got today.</s>CHATTERLEY: Right.</s>TAPPER: Another 898,000 Americans, almost 900,000 Americans claiming first time jobless benefits. And there still remains a lot of uncertainty about California's true numbers. The Labor Department is using estimates while they deal with fraud and a backlog of claims?</s>CHATTERLEY: There are all sorts of gray clouds coming out this data, Jake, you're quite right. The risk here is that California's numbers are higher. And let's be clear, the claims number that we saw today is the highest level it's been since August. Even the silver lining here, the number of people actually getting their hands on cash, the so-called continuing claims dropped. But the positive trend on that to some degree is offset by the number of people who are maxing out on the amount of benefits they can collect so they drop out of the numbers. You just showed the key figure here, 25 million Americans are claiming some form of benefit for job loss as a result of what we've seen in this pandemic, and we have now got COVID cases rising. We're approaching flu season and any benefit of financial aid is simply fading and here we are.</s>TAPPER: And now two studies are saying that poverty is higher now than before COVID hit. The stimulus worked for some time but I guess it dissipated fairly quickly.</s>CHATTERLEY: Exactly right. Short time it worked really well. In fact, 18 million Americans were held out of poverty at the peak of the crisis in May. Fast forward to September and the benefits of the aid rolled off, the bump up, the $600 a week in benefits had stopped. And that number dropped to around 4 million people. But take a look at the poverty rates today, Jake. We have 16 percent of people right now living in poverty, and it is way, way worse for people in minorities compared to the white population in America. It's around a quarter of blacks and Hispanics living in poverty. That's people who can't pay their rent, they can't pay their bills, they can't feed their families. That answers your first question. It's desperate.</s>TAPPER: It's awful. Julia Chatterley, thank you so much. In our 2020 LEAD, huge lines in battle ground state North Carolina today, the first day of early voting. Senator Kamala Harris had to cancel her travel to the Tar Heel state after two of her campaign staffers tested positive for COVID as the campaign provided an extremely detailed account of staffers and infections. In stark contrast with the Trump White House, which still hasn't disclosed to the public when the President last tested negative before he got the coronavirus. And whether he possibly infected citizens of Ohio, Minnesota, New Jersey before he announced his infection. Not that exposing his supporters to potential infection seems to be a particular concern. President Trump's reckless rally in North Carolina ended just a short time ago. But it is a sign North Carolina is a state very much in play and where there remains confusion around mail- in ballots, as CNN's Pamela Brown reports for us now.</s>MICHAEL FLEMING, NORTH CAROLINA VOTER: I want to come out here first thing in the morning and get my vote in as soon as possible.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALES: Good morning.</s>PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today voters are camped out outside polling places in the battleground state of North Carolina. Some telling CNN they are voting in person because they have second thoughts about vote by mail.</s>HATTIE REDFEARN, NORTH CAROLINA VOTER: We didn't want our ballots to get lost, misplaced, thrown in the trash or whatever's going on. So, to be on the safe side, just come on in, stand in line, be prepared, and here we are.</s>BROWN: Some Joe Biden supporters are even admitting they changed their mind on vote by mail after the President lashed out against it.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mail ballots are a very dangerous thing for this country.</s>BROWN: And over concerns the Postal Service can't handle the crush of ballots. But a new court ruling is causing election officials in the Tar Heel state to scramble. A federal judge handed Democrats a win upholding a policy allowing ballots that arrive through November 12th to be counted if they were mailed on or before election day. The same judge also handing Republicans a win in a ruling that makes it harder for voters to fix absentee ballots with missing signatures. Both rulings may be appealed. In Georgia, massive lines earlier this week, some even eight hours long have started to ease up.</s>SEAN TERRELL, GEORGIA VOTER: Oh, it sucks but, you know, I'd rather be out here doing my civic duty than not.</s>BROWN: Today the Secretary of State say they're seeing improvements on wait times caused by a statewide capacity problem after the state's election vendor increased bandwidth. With just 19 days to go, more than 17 million Americans have already voted. This according to data from 45 states. So far, the states with the most ballot returns, Florida, Texas, and California. And the Golden State, Republicans have until the close of business today to remove unofficial ballot drop boxes set out in four counties. But the state Republican Party says it will ignore a cease and desist from the State Attorney General and Secretary of State to remove them.</s>ALEX PADILLA, CALIFORNIA SECRETARY OF STATE: We certainly hope to comply with the cease and desist orders. But we're inviting people to submit information if they continue to see these very problematic fake drop boxes.</s>BROWN: And Jake, a source familiar tells me that Republican officials do plan to appeal over that North Carolina case when the ballots should be received by. And just to put this all in perspective, we're less than three weeks away from election day and there is still ongoing litigation in key battleground states. You have North Carolina but you also have Pennsylvania and Wisconsin over which ballots will actually get counted -- Jake.</s>TAPPER: All right, Pamela Brown with the latest in our "MAKING IT COUNT" series. Politics keeping its boot on the neck of science. A new investigation you'll see first on THE LEAD what one CDC official calls a cluster "f" of a response as COVID began its killing spree in the U.S. Stay with us.

CDC Warns Indoor Sports Could Be Super-Spreader Events

TAPPER: The HEALTH LEAD, "Inside the Fall of the CDC." It's a new stunning investigation just out from "ProPublica" describing the crisis at the Centers for Disease Control and its handling of the pandemic. With internal e-mails and interviews that report details how White House pressure left CDC officials muzzled. How politics interfered with decision making at the highest levels. And missteps at CDC itself, leading to confusion and delays. One e- mail revealing the frustration over revising guidelines on reopening churches. CDC's head of coronavirus respond told his colleagues, quote, I'm very troubled on this Sunday morning that there will be people who will get sick and perhaps die because of what we were forced to do, unquote. I want to bring in "ProPublica's" senior reporter Patricia Callahan. She's among the journalists breaking this great story today. Patricia, thanks so much for joining us. So, you obtained hundreds of e-mails and government documents. You interviewed more than 30 CDC employees, contractors, Trump administration officials. You're reporting opens with that frustration from CDC's chief official on coronavirus response around Memorial Day over changed guidance on church reopenings. Describe what led to that e-mail.</s>PATRICIA CALLAHAN, SENIOR REPORTER, PROPUBLICA: So, the CDC head issued safety advice for houses of worship earlier in the spring. And the White House fought over that language and ultimately tabled it, didn't put it out. The President, right before Memorial Day weekend, started blaming Democrats for keeping churches closed and suddenly the CDC found itself on his front burner and they had a very short period of time to reconcile the differences with the administration and put their guidance out. And they did that in sort of going through the last-minute edits from the White House they rejected one that said that churches -- that the administration wanted to delete a line that said, you know, that churches and mosques and synagogues should consider suspending the use of choirs. Because their own research had shown that a single choir member singing can infect an enormous amount of people, can lead to a super-spreader event. And they wanted to make sure people understood that something, you know, that brings people great comfort in their faith, can lead to injury, it can lead to illness and death. And so, they wanted to include that line. The White House, after the guidance went up called and said, you know, that this was insubordination, that they should not have made these changes, that the White House changes were not optional, they were mandatory. And so, the CDC had to take that guidance down and replace it with a version that didn't mention that singing would lead to illness and death.</s>TAPPER: It's incredible.</s>CALLAHAN: And the head of the CDC response at the time, you could just hear the anguish and anger that he's pouring out into this e-mail to his colleagues.</s>TAPPER: And you write about White House meddling notably from Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner, the President's son-in-law and daughter and son-in-law. What did you learn from your reporting about their involvement in White House decisions?</s>CALLAHAN: Well, we heard from people who said there were a lot of sort of young men in suits with -- it was, you know, red ties and beards who seemed -- who were sort of proteges of the President's son-in-law, who would show up to these meetings, you know, that had absolutely no experience in public health. And we also saw that the President's daughter Ivanka weighed in on guidance for reopening schools. So, there was this constant cast of characters that had nothing to do -- no backgrounds in public health that were weighing in on these decisions that would influence, you know, the safety of the American people. And it was --</s>TAPPER: You described CDC officials as muzzled by the White House and the Coronavirus Task Force. You quote a senior CDC official saying, quote, when it mattered the most, they shut us up, a senior CDC official said. The threat is clear. If we want to ever be able to talk tomorrow, or next week, or next month or whatever is being dangled in front of us, you stay inside the lines. And that wasn't just about fear of losing their jobs, you write about the fear of the White House cutting off communication with the</s>CDC. CALLAHAN: Yes, there was always this threat that if you stepped outside the lines, you would lose your seat at the table. And I think this is something that we really heard over and over again from people, some of whom like wept when they talked to us about it, because it put them in this position where they had to decide, you know, do you go along? Do you speak up, or do you put your head down and go along? And there was intense division among CDC staff about which was the right way to -- which was the right road to take. And whether that acquiescence of their leaders, you know, was part of their undoing. It was sort of the ultimate sign that this agency that's a model for the world had just so thoroughly lost its way that one person said to us, you know, the cowardice and the caving are just disgusting to me.</s>TAPPER: Patricia Callahan, thank you so much. A chilling report from "ProPublica" about the CDC. Coming up, you may not have to worry about your uncle talking about what he saw on Facebook this Thanksgiving. Dr. Fauci is warning about getting together this holiday season. That's ahead.

Two Kamala Harris Campaign Officials Test Positive For COVID- 19; Coronavirus Cases Spiking Across Country.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In North Carolina, where the president held another reckless rally this afternoon and early voting starts today, the state is reporting its highest daily case count ever. There were nearly 60,000 new cases reported across the U.S. today; 985 people died from the virus. At this rate, the U.S. could top nine million coronavirus cases and 230,000 deaths by Election Day. Health experts have been very clear. Wearing masks, socially distancing can dramatically help reduce the spread of the virus, and yet President Trump on the campaign trail continues to undermine those efforts. Today, he completely misrepresented a CDC study and lied to the American people about it. Listen to this. But, before you do, just keep this in mind. This is not true.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look at all the masks. They keep saying, nobody wears a mask, wear the masks, although then they come out with things today. Did you see, CDC, that 85 percent of the people wearing the mask catch it, OK?</s>TAPPER: That is not true in any way; 85 percent of people wearing masks do not catch it. There is no study that suggests that at all. I asked the White House what he was talking about. They referred me to a CDC study of people who had coronavirus. A high percentage of them claimed that they had worn masks. But that's not the fact of the matter in terms of how they got the virus. More than 40 percent of those individuals had also had close contact was somebody who had COVID, mostly family members. A great number of them had eaten at restaurants. The report was trying to find out how these people who claimed they wore masks got the virus. But President Trump continues to misrepresent facts, instead of facing the reality. The president also now dismissing Dr. Anthony Fauci as a -- quote -- "Democrat. Everybody knows that." That's not true. There's no evidence Fauci is a Democrat. He's not registered as one. He has served in his position since 1984 under both Republican and Democratic administrations, heralded by both Democratic and Republican presidents. CNN's Kaitlan Collins joins me. Now, Kaitlan, Trump is now using his rallies to attack Dr. Fauci.</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. I think this is the first time we have actually seen the president go after Dr. Fauci at one of his rallies. And it comes just days after the president's campaign used Dr. Fauci in a campaign ad to try to appeal to voters. And now he's going after him, criticizing him for things he said in the past on coronavirus, even though the president himself has changed his position on the pandemic several times, and also claiming the Dr. Fauci is a Democrat. When you actually look in the D.C. voter registration records, it says that Dr. Fauci is registered as a voter, but has no party affiliated with him. And, of course, he made clear in his statement this week that he's gone to great pains to make sure that he does not endorse any political candidates, given what you said, he's worked under presidents of both parties, being in government for decades in service. And so this is the president going after Dr. Fauci as he tries to reframe really his entire response to the pandemic ahead of that town hall tonight.</s>COLLINS (voice-over): President Trump is holding his fourth rally in four days, as he hopes to make up lost ground against Joe Biden in North Carolina, a state he must win in three weeks.</s>TRUMP: Can you believe -- can we believe we're even fighting against this guy?</s>COLLINS: Before leaving Washington, Trump called into FOX Business, where he defended holding large rallies with thousands of people packed together.</s>TRUMP: What I do is, outside is a big thing. And if you look at those people, they really are wearing masks. I'll tell you, I looked last night in Iowa, there were many, many people wearing masks.</s>COLLINS: The people directly behind Trump may have been wearing masks, but cameras showed that many in the audience weren't. Dr. Anthony Fauci says holding large rallies with few health precautions is a major risk.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: You can't run away from or argue with the numbers. That's a high-risk endeavor.</s>COLLINS: One of the first people in Trump's inner circle to test positive was Hope Hicks. And she was not wearing a mask when she joined him on the campaign trail today. Contradicting what his staff has said in the past, Trump acknowledged today he was not being tested on a daily basis.</s>TRUMP: I'm tested, not every day, but I'm tested a lot. I was really tested a lot after I got rid of it, because they wanted to make sure, and I always tested a lot.</s>COLLINS: That's not what his press secretary told reporters in July.</s>KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He's tested more than anyone, multiple times a day, and we believe that he's acting appropriately.</s>COLLINS: The pandemic has killed over 200,000 Americans and left many struggling to pay bills or find jobs. Despite that, Trump is downplaying the impact of coronavirus.</s>TRUMP: We have been affected less by the pandemic than any other major country in the world.</s>COLLINS: The Treasury secretary said yesterday that a stimulus deal before the election is unlikely, though Trump claimed today it's possible. With no evidence and no explanation, he also claimed that no would pay for the $1.8 trillion relief package.</s>TRUMP: Well, there's a lot of ways, OK? There's a lot of ways. And I will figure every one of them out. I already have them figured out.</s>COLLINS: That promise echoing one he's made many times before that also never happened.</s>TRUMP: We will build the wall. Mexico is going to pay for the wall.</s>COLLINS: Now, Jake, of course, the president has now twice today made that claim that you were talking about, where he claimed that 85 percent of people who wore a mask got COVID-19, something that is obviously inaccurate and not something that the CDC has said. Instead, they have talked about how wearing a mask is not intended to protect you, the person wearing it. It's to protect other people, in case you have COVID-19. But what this study actually showed was that people who got it in this study of adults that they did were twice as likely to have reported dining at a restaurant than those who did not get coronavirus. But, as the president is making all of these false claims about wearing a mask, Jake, keep that in mind the next time his aides try to push this idea that he has always been consistent that people should wear a mask and whatnot, something that they have used time and time again when we have tried to press them on the president obviously making inaccurate statements about the effectiveness of wearing a mask.</s>TAPPER: Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much. Appreciate it. With just 19 days to go until Election Day, the Biden campaign has pulled Senator Kamala Harris off the campaign trail after two people in her orbit, including her communications director, tested positive for the virus. The campaign says Senator Harris did not have close contact with either of those people. But, as a precaution, her events have been canceled for the weekend. CNN's M.J. Lee joins me now lives. M.J., the Biden/Harris campaign, they disclosed every bit of information, it seems, about this incident and the individuals and how -- who came in contact with them and what. It seemed aimed in some ways at contrasting themselves with the White House, which has been completely nontransparent about President Trump contracting the virus.</s>M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're absolutely right about that. We have gotten a pretty full accounting from the Biden campaign on what appears to have happened. And that is that two people -- the first is Senator Harris' communications director, and the second person is a member of her flight crew -- did test positive for COVID- 19 late last night. And what we understand from the campaign is that both of those people traveled with Senator Harris on a plane on October 8, and that both of them, including Senator Harris as well, were wearing N95 masks on the plane and that, during this time, Harris did not have close contact with either of those people. That's according to the CDC's definition of what it means to be exposed to someone with the virus, and that, importantly, 48 hours prior to testing positive, those people did not have contact with either Senator Harris or former Vice President Joe Biden. And the good news, Jake, is that Senator Harris was tested for COVID- 19 earlier today. That test came back negative. She was also tested yesterday as well. That test was also negative. So, really, it is out of an abundance of caution, the Biden campaign says, that she has been taken off the trail for in-person events for the time being. They expect her to go back out on the trail on Monday. So, remember, she was supposed to be out on the campaign trail in North Carolina today. Those events are now going to be virtual. And, as for our former Vice President Joe Biden, he is going to continue campaigning, including attending this town hall this evening in Philadelphia.</s>TAPPER: All right, M.J., thank you so much. And Democratic vice presidential running late Senator Kamala Harris will join CNN's Don Lemon on "CNN TONIGHT" this evening 8:00 p.m. Eastern. You don't want to miss it. Joining us now to discuss the coronavirus, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. And, Sanjay, I have to say, again, the president, the leading purveyor of false information about the virus, misrepresenting this CDC study, for whatever reason. I don't know if he misunderstood it, or if he's just lying about it. It's dangerous. It is not true that this study said 85 percent of people who wear masks catch the virus. It's a lie.</s>DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, it's absolutely a lie. That isn't even what the study was trying to determine. As you pointed out, Jake, it was a totally different sort of focus of the study. In the study, as you know, they found people -- they had people who were symptomatic, people got tested for the virus, people who were infected, people were not infected. They said they were about just as likely to have worn a mask whether they had been infected or not. But, interestingly, Jake, that's the problem with these studies, first of all, is that about half the country regularly or sometimes wears a mask. We know that from lots of different studies. In this self-reported study, about eight out of 10 people said that they regularly or sometimes wore a mask. Point is that, it's self- reported. It's very hard to make any sense of that data. What we know, I think pretty convincingly, that the CDC has always said -- and they just sent us a statement again -- is that the mask is really designed to protect others from a potentially infected mask- wearer. So, the real question should be, if you got infected, how likely are you to be around people who weren't wearing masks, not how likely were you to be wearing a mask. So, as you point out, it was a totally different study. Masks are a good thing. That's been borne out over and over again, and it helps protect others from you. You may not even know you're carrying the virus.</s>TAPPER: Yes, I mean, what the -- they were trying to figure out how these people got the virus.</s>GUPTA: Right.</s>TAPPER: And one of the -- I think 42 percent of the people who, -- and, again, they claimed they wore the mask. We don't know if it's true or not; 42 percent of them said they had had close contact with somebody who had the virus, meaning they probably -- and mostly family members.</s>GUPTA: Right.</s>TAPPER: So they probably didn't wear a mask around that person at home. And then they were more -- I think more than twice as likely to have gone to a restaurant, when you obviously take off your mask to eat. So it wasn't saying wearing a mask doesn't do anything. In fact, it was saying the opposite. These people who got the disease when they weren't wearing masks, they didn't spread it because they were -- because they often were wearing masks. I mean, it's just lunacy. And I can't believe we have to spend our time talking about this from the president, who is charged with protecting the American people.</s>GUPTA: Yes, I mean, the most basic thing, this mask-wearing, because everyone has this conversation, we're actually not going to lock down again. You hear that all the time. So you're not going to do anything? We're not going to lock down, we're not going to wear masks, we're not going to abide by basic public health practices? I mean, if the country were a patient, had a disease, you're basically saying, look, I'm just praying that this is just going to cure itself. I'm not willing to do anything, no treatment at all, to take care of this disease, and hope that it goes away. That's obviously a really bad strategy. Just like herd immunity, where the virus will run through the country, the virus runs through that metaphor of the human body and you get progressively sicker. So, it makes no sense. And here we are still talking about it in October.</s>TAPPER: The Biden campaign says the both of the individuals who tested positive for coronavirus were on a flight with Senator Harris on October 8. They were all wearing N95 masks. And we're told she was not in close contact with either of them for more than 15 minutes. Based on those details, is it -- is it safe for Senator Harris to return to the campaign trail Monday, do you think?</s>GUPTA: Well, it's one of these things where you have got to define close contact. And I read that statement, and they were careful to say there was no close contact. And there is a definition around this. This isn't a precise science, but basically saying, did you have contact with the person within six feet for longer than 15 minutes, unmasked as well, and was that at least two days, 48 hours before the person developed symptoms from their infection? So, if that's true, if she did not meet any of those criteria, it does not qualify as a close contact. And I will say, Jake, as we talked about, she gets tested, they say it's negative. That doesn't necessarily mean that you can't be positive a couple days from now from an exposure that happens earlier. So I'm sure they're going to monitor that. But if the close contact criteria were not met, she would be good.</s>TAPPER: And let's talk about what we're seeing in the U.S. right now, because it's getting worse, nearly 60,000 new cases just yesterday. At least seven states are reporting a record high number of hospitalizations. There's a chance we could hit nine million cases of coronavirus before Election Day, almost 1,000 deaths yesterday. How bad is this going to get, do you think?</s>GUPTA: Well, Jake, it's really worrisome. I mean, I don't know how to represent this anymore. I don't want to frighten people, but it's really worrisome. I mean, one of the things that I think you got to keep in mind is that we think about this virus ,and it has a certain fatality ratio, meaning, if you're infected, this is the likelihood someone might die. But it's also contingent on what medical resources are, right? We had this conversation in April. If you start to run into situations -- and we can show the map of the country in terms of hospital capacity right now. Typically, this time of year, critical care capacity around 60, 65 percent. The purple means it's already over 70 percent, dark purple, even higher than that, I believe. Most of the country, even before we go into flu season, is already at really significant capacity, Jake, here in Georgia, 89.2 percent capacity. So what happens over the next couple of months? My point is, the viruses are here. They're contagious. We know that. I'm talking about flu and coronavirus coming over the next few months. But if hospitals start running into trouble, that's going to be a real challenge. I mean, they're already planning, Jake, in these cities looking at buildings, trying to determine can that be a hospital sort of surge capacity structure? So that's a really worrisome part. To try and prevent those preventable deaths is of huge concern.</s>TAPPER: When the president's out there on the campaign trail talking about the great therapeutics and everything that people have available to them, as if the average Joe Six-Pack in Greenville, North Carolina, will be able to medevac over to Walter Reed and be given an infusion of all these experimental treatments that he will quickly recover from. That's just not the reality, not to mention, of course, the lack of safety net in this country. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.</s>TAPPER: It turns out the "let 'er rip" approach is not a good approach. Who knew? Scientists. Dr. Fauci's new warnings about deadly dangers of herd immunity. And they are the most vulnerable to coronavirus. Some have not seen their grandchildren in person in months. What Joe Biden is doing to pull key senior support away from Trump? Stay with us.

Number of Company That Charters Biden's Plane Tests Positive, Campaign Says Biden Wasn't in Close Contact; Trump Losing Support Among Florida Seniors Over Administration's Botched Pandemic Response.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Some breaking news now. The Biden campaign has just released saying that an employee of the charter plane company used by Joe Biden has tested for coronavirus. This employee was on a plane with Biden for two flights Monday and Tuesday, though the campaign says that, quote, Vice President Biden was not in close contact as defined by the CDC with this individual at any time, unquote. That they were more than 50 feet away, they wore masks, et cetera. Biden's doctor and medical advisors say there is no need for Joe Biden to quarantine. In our 2020 lead, both the Trump and Biden campaigns are stepping up their fight to win the support of older voters, a crucial voting bloc in many states including Florida. They favored President Trump in 2016, but that support seems to be slipping. Nationally, though, the latest CNN poll shows Biden well ahead of President Trump with 60 percent of the vote among those aged 65 and older. When you take a closer look at Florida, there is a shift and it's statistically even. And as CNN's Jeff Zeleny report, it's the Trump administration's handling or mishandling of the pandemic that could cost the president this critical support.</s>CROWD: Let's vote Joe! Let's vote Joe!</s>JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These Florida seniors are fired up for Joe Biden.</s>ZELENY: But it's not only Democrats taking their stand. A bigger threat to President Trump's re-elections may come from voters like Tommye and Rody Johnson. They are lifelong Republicans who supported him four years ago, but won't again.</s>TOMMYE JOHNSON, REPUBLICAN BIDEN SUPPORTER: I feel he's responsible for thousands and thousands of deaths because of his attitude about it. He's still dishonest about it. He keeps saying it's getting better and it never is. It's getting worse.</s>ZELENY: Their frustration that the president turned to fury with his handling of coronavirus.</s>RODY JOHNSON, REPUBLICAN BIDEN SUPPORTER: Damn it, we voted for him and of course, the virus, COVID has been terrible.</s>ZELENY: Three weeks ago, his son tested positive for COVID-19.</s>R. JOHNSON: I was mad because he had it, and it was, you know -- and I kept thinking that's Mr. Trump's fault because this thing should never have gotten as far as it had.</s>ZELENY: Seniors were key to Trump's victory in 2016. Yet falloffs from this critical voting bloc have the president sounding the alarm this week at a rally here.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Biden's agenda would be a catastrophe for Florida seniors.</s>ZELENY: During his own Florida visit, Biden turned the subject back to coronavirus.</s>JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: So many lives have been lost unnecessarily because this president cares more about the stock market than he does about, you know, the well-being of seniors.</s>ZELENY: Tobi Schelin is a nurse who is going door to door for Biden where she hears the stories.</s>TOBI SCHELIN, BIDEN SUPPORTER, VOLUNTEER: They can't hug their grandkids. So it's been huge. That's been a huge factor.</s>ZELENY: The pandemic and the fear of a close election drives these senior volunteers.</s>MARY MCBEE, BIDEN SUPPORTER, VOLUNTEER: My precinct went to Trump by four votes. Four, only four votes, that's maybe two houses, three houses. I don't want to wake up this year the day after election and say, what more could I have done?</s>ZELENY: Signs of an exceedingly tight race are plentiful here, with passionate support for Trump on display from flags to front yards.</s>ANN ALEKSINAS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: There's more people out supporting him now because he's had so many people going against him, and I don't feel he's been treated fairly by the Democrats at all.</s>ZELENY: The question is how many Trump voters have soured on the president. The Johnsons live in a county that's still deep red, but they're no longer shy about showing their affirmative support for Biden.</s>R. JOHNSON: Mr. Biden is a nice man, and there was a time I didn't like him at all. I love him.</s>ZELENY: But it's Trump that's driving them in this race.</s>T. JOHNSON: He is so dishonest, and the worst is that whenever he is caught in a lie, he blames it on somebody else. It's always somebody else. He's -- he's impossible.</s>ZELENY: Now, President Trump is arriving in Florida tonight. He'll be holding a campaign rally again tomorrow night. So by the end of the week, that's three appearances in five days. So, Jake, certainly underscoring the importance of Florida. Now, there are also millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars actually flooding the TV airwaves on common issues like Social Security and taxes, but it's this new issue of coronavirus that indeed could turn this campaign one bright spot for Republicans, they've certainly increased their registered voters here since this pandemic began, almost twice as many as registered Democrats, at least in terms of new voters -- Jake.</s>TAPPER: Yeah, the Republican Party in Florida has their act together, I think it's fair to say. Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much. Let's discuss with Sabrina Siddiqui of "The Wall Street Journal" and "Politico's" Laura Barron-Lopez. Sabrina, let me start with you. Tonight, Biden, Trump doing separate town halls, one on ABC, one on NBC instead of a debate because Trump pulled out of the debate because he refused to do it remotely even though he had coronavirus at the time. Obviously, the dynamic is going to be different. The last debate was tough to watch, of course, with all of the interruptions and bickering. Might these separate town halls be more effective in some ways?</s>SABRINA SIDDIQUI, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, certainly, it's an opportunity for both candidates to speak directly with American voters. Now, it's worth pointing out that this is a format where President Trump has struggled in the past, in part because he does have a challenge when it comes to showing empathy and connecting directly with voters addressing their concerns. The last time he participated in a town hall with ABC, he often didn't answer the question he was asked and once again, defended his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. I think we're at a stage in this race where there are less than three weeks to go, millions of Americans have already cast their ballots and there is a much smaller percentage of undecided voters compared with this stage in the race four years ago and polling shows Vice President Joe Biden not only has a double-digit lead and national polls, but he also is ahead of Trump in several key battlegrounds including some swing states that President Trump carried four years ago. So I think the stakes are certainly higher for President Trump, and I really think that once again, the town halls will be dominated by the issue that has been at the center of this campaign and that is not just the coronavirus pandemic, but President Trump's handling of the virus.</s>TAPPER: And, Laura, I mean, what happened, of course, is the president tested positive for the virus. It wasn't clear if he had it when he was at the first debate, the debate commission said, OK, we need to do this remotely. President Trump pulled out and then Biden scheduled his town hall on ABC. Do you think it's a mistake that NBC scheduled their Trump town hall at the exact same time? Doesn't that do a disservice to the American people?</s>LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it certainly makes it harder for voters to decide whether or not they want to spend time watching one or if they want to attempt to flip between the channels. My colleagues would have reported that there is an internal, you know, upset right now at NBC, that the head of MSNBC is frustrated that NBC decided to hold this town hall at the same time as the Biden town hall was already scheduled and NBC is saying that they hired a third party independent firm to vet voters to make sure that these are voters that are potentially very undecided. But it certainly raises questions about what -- if this benefits the American public at all and also it makes me think about a lot of undecided voters that I've been interacting with in the last few weeks. I was in a focus group watching some undecided women who voted for Trump in 2016. They don't know how they're going to vote this time and they appear to be leaning towards Biden, and so, I would assume that they would tune in actually more to the Biden town hall versus the Trump one.</s>TAPPER: I've seen some people suggest on social media, Sabrina, that Savannah Guthrie or one of the attendees of the town hall this evening of the NBC town hall with Trump should ask him about the fact that he's been pushing this nonsense, deranged conspiracy theory that SEAL Team 6, the heroes who killed Osama bin Laden didn't actually kill Osama bin Laden. It's this bizarre and ludicrous conspiracy theory that the president has twice re-tweeted. I know it probably won't be asked, but what do you think of that subject in itself? I mean, is that something that you think you would press him on?</s>SIDDIQUI: Well, absolutely, and I think -- first of all, as you point out it's a baseless conspiracy theory. It's coming after another conspiracy theory touted by Trump was in essence blown up when the Justice Department concluded investigation into the unmasking of Michael Flynn and other Trump associates without any criminal charges, and not even a report really to substantiate claims that the president had long pushed a Biden conspiracy against him. So, you know, he seems to move on to now another theory. I think the real question is what exactly is his strategy at this point? Who is he appealing to with these conspiracy theories? This is a president who has a base but he doesn't have a coalition. And four years ago, he was propelled to victory in part because enough independents and suburban voters swung in his favor, certainly especially in the final weeks of the race. I think this time around, he's losing support not just from those two constituencies but also from seniors. And you even see a dip in his numbers with white working class men and women, of course, representing his core constituencies. So, I think the broader question to ask is what is really the president doing with pushing conspiracy theories, with just less than three weeks remaining, in an election that again has been entirely about the coronavirus pandemic --</s>TAPPER: Yeah.</s>SIDDIQUI: -- racial justice protests, the direction of the economy in the country under his stewardship and not about conspiracy theories.</s>TAPPER: Yeah, I think the answer is he's flailing. But I don't think there is a strategy. Laura Barron-Lopez and Sabrina Siddiqui, thanks so much to both of you. Appreciate it. Dr. Anthony Fauci's new warning about Thanksgiving that every American should hear. Stay with us.

COVID-19 Second Wave?; Interview With Former Acting CDC Director Dr. Richard Besser; Georgia Governor Extends COVID-19 Restrictions through October 31; More Than 17 Million General Election Ballots Cast So Far Despite Trump's Continued Disinformation About Voting

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.</s>WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. We're following breaking news. Tonight, there are new and ominous indicators that the United States is now plunging into the second wave of the coronavirus pandemic. In addition to the rising death toll and case count, most states are not reporting alarming spikes in new infections, 21 of them seeing all- time highs, as hospitalizations are also soaring right now. But President Trump is again insisting the country is doing fine -- his word, fine -- as he campaigned in North Carolina, where daily cases just peak. The president ignoring the evidence of downplaying fatalities, as the CDC now projects another 23,000 Americans may die by the end of election week. The president is now in Miami, as he and Joe Biden prepare to take part in competing televised town halls tonight. It's an alternative to their second debate, which was canceled because Mr. Trump refused to participate virtually. Let's go straight to our chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta. He's in Miami for us. Jim, the president's complaining about this town hall tonight, and he's renewing his attacks on Dr. Anthony Fauci.</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That is true, Wolf. President Trump will be on his way to a town hall here in Miami shortly, after he backed out of what was supposed to be a presidential debate with Joe Biden. The president is already claiming he's being -- quote -- "set up" in tonight's town hall, but that's not true. And Mr. Trump is also attacking, as you said, one of the administration's top health experts in Dr. Anthony Fauci. That's despite the fact that the president was featuring Fauci in one of his campaign ads just a few days ago. The president is claiming the U.S. is doing just fine when it comes to the coronavirus. But that raises the question, this is fine?</s>ACOSTA (voice-over): On a night of dueling televised town halls with Democrat Joe Biden, President Trump is complaining about imaginary forces conspiring against him, from the news media.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, you know I'm being set up tonight, right? And so they asked me if I would do it. And I figured, what the hell? We get a free hour on television.</s>ACOSTA: To Dr. Anthony Fauci from the president's own Coronavirus Task Force.</s>TRUMP: And you have my friend. And he's a nice guy, Tony, Tony Fauci. He is a nice guy.</s>TRUMP: He said, this is not a threat, this is not a problem. Don't worry about it. It's not once -- a problem. It's the craziest thing. But he's a nice guy. So I keep him around. Right? We keep him around.</s>ACOSTA: The president is lashing out at one of the nation's most trusted health experts just days after Fauci was taken out of context in a Trump campaign ad.</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I can't imagine that anybody could be doing more.</s>ACOSTA: After that, the president's attack on Fauci came as Mr. Trump staged yet another rally, where many supporters were not social distancing and not wearing masks, just like top White House officials traveling with the president, Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and adviser Hope Hicks, who weren't using masks as they boarded Air Force One. Even as the virus is raging out of control, the president is insisting his administration has a handle on the pandemic.</s>TRUMP: We're not doing any more lockdowns, and we're doing fine.</s>ACOSTA: But this is fine? The Centers for Disease Control is forecasting as many as 240,000 deaths by November 7, with 59,000 new cases and 985 deaths reported Wednesday. Mr. Trump is portraying himself as a warrior against lockdowns, blasting Democratic leaders like Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer.</s>TRUMP: And they ought to open up the states. That's the other thing with the Democrats, maybe more important. Open up the states. She wants to be a dictator in Michigan, and the people can stand there. And they want to get back and they want to get back to work.</s>ACOSTA: It's not clear how seriously the president has taken the virus, as he conceded he's not being tested every day for COVID-19.</s>TRUMP: I'm tested, not every day, but I'm tested a lot. I was really tested a lot after I got rid of it, because they wanted to make sure, and I always tested a lot.</s>ACOSTA: Contradicting what the White House said earlier this year.</s>KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president is the most tested man in America. He's tested more than anyone, multiple times a day. And we believe that he's acting appropriately.</s>ACOSTA: The president is again raising worries about what he will do after Election Day, refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses.</s>TRUMP: I'm not saying anything. I'm saying this. I think everybody says it. You have to have a fair election.</s>ACOSTA: Mr. Trump is continuing his war of words with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, even as she is negotiating with administration officials over a new coronavirus relief bill.</s>TRUMP: She's got a lot of problems. She's got a lot of mental problems, and it's going to be very hard to do anything with her. She wants to wait until after the election. She thinks it hurts the Republicans. And I don't. I think it hurts -- I think it hurts them.</s>ACOSTA: Complicating those talks, Senate Republicans want a stimulus package that's far smaller than what Pelosi and the administration are discussing.</s>SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): They were discussions going on between with the secretary of the Treasury and the speaker about a higher amount. That's not what I'm going to put on the floor.</s>ACOSTA: And during his attack on Dr. Fauci, the president accused the administration's health expert of being a Democrat. But that's ridiculous. There is no evidence that is the case. And more, importantly, Fauci has served under six presidents from both parties. And when he was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the president in office at that time with George W. Bush, a Republican -- Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Yes. It's really, really sad what the president is saying. All right, Jim Acosta, thank you very, very much. Let's get to the breaking news on the state of the pandemic here in the United States and the second wave that health experts have been so worried about. CNN's Nick Watt is trying to put all of this together for us. Nick, there's breaking news, first of all, I understand, out of Georgia?</s>NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. Georgia has just extended its COVID-19 restrictions through at least the end of the month, and records falling across the country, Illinois, most cases in a day, same in North Carolina and both Dakotas, Ohio, most cases in a day, a new record two days in a row. And, today, Wolf, some words of wisdom from Mayor Marty Walsh up in Boston. He says, one day, we will go back to parties, we will go to games, but, right now, we are at a very critical point.</s>RICARDO AGUIRRE, FAMILY MEMBER OF CORONAVIRUS VICTIMS: I feel very incompetent.</s>WATT (voice-over): This virus destroyed Ricardo Aguirre's business, killed eight family members, including his father.</s>AGUIRRE: We did everything together.</s>WATT: And nearly 60,000 new COVID-19 infections across America yesterday, highest tally in a couple of months.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is now unconscionable this late into the outbreak.</s>WATT: The Atlanta Falcons won't practice today after a positive test. And perhaps the biggest name in college sports is now COVID-positive.</s>NICK SABAN, HEAD FOOTBALL COACH, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA: I feel fine. I felt fine. I was very surprised by this.</s>WATT: These are the nationwide daily case counts, bad in the spring, worse in the summer, rising again, rising fast, a call to arms in NYC, our one-time epicenter.</s>MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D-NY), NEW YORK: Simple as this. Crucial week. This is the way to stop the second wave.</s>WATT: This week, 21 states logged their highest average daily case counts ever.</s>GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): We have got to get these numbers down. And if this trend continues, our hospital capacity will be in jeopardy.</s>WATT: In just a week, the number of COVID-19 patients in the hospital in Indiana jumped 25 percent, in Ohio 28 percent, in Delaware 30 percent, in Minnesota 32 percent, in Wisconsin, more COVID-19 patients in the hospital now than ever.</s>ASHOK RAI, CEO, PREVEA HEALTH: If there was a major car accident today in Green Bay, between all the hospitals, we wouldn't be able to take care of it.</s>WATT: But advisers to our president reportedly promoting herd immunity, AKA, let it rip.</s>FAUCI: I think that we just got to look that square in the eye and say it's nonsense.</s>DR. MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: It leads to unnecessary cases and it leads to unnecessary deaths.</s>WATT: What might have been, New Zealand, small island nation, granted, but 25 deaths total. Why? Quick action, real border closures, a nationwide lockdown, strong test-and-trace, this according to a new study from "The Lancet." Here, cases are rising, temperatures are falling. Some say the first wave never ended. Here comes the second. So, Thanksgiving?</s>FAUCI: You may have to bite the bullet and sacrifice that social gathering.</s>WATT: And indoors is the issue. And here's why. We have been hearing from the CDC about an amateur hockey game in Florida back in the summer, 22 players. One of them, they say, was infected, and during the course of that game infected as many as 13 other players. Now, granted, around the Thanksgiving table, hopefully, you're not going to be panting and hitting people as much as you would be on the ice, Wolf, but it is indoors. That is the issue. The virus spreads indoors -- Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Yes, it's going to be harder and harder to eat outdoors as it gets colder and colder here in the United States.</s>WATT: Yes.</s>BLITZER: All right, thanks very much, Nick Watt, reporting from Los Angeles. Joining us now, Dr. Richard Besser, the former acting director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Dr. Besser, thank you so much for joining us. And, as you know, the U.S. seems to be clearly at the beginning of a second wave in the pandemic. Do you worry we're going to see a surging death toll similar to what we saw in the early spring?</s>DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Well, Wolf, there are parts of the nation that are seeing a second rise in cases, and then there are other parts that are really seeing their first big increase. Many parts of the Midwest, many rural communities that thought they may have been spared by this are seeing the increases that occurred in other places. And what we do will really matter. The CDC predicts the number of deaths will continue to rise, and rise dramatically. So much of that depends on what we do as a nation, whether we follow the guidance of public health or not. One of the things that concerns me, Wolf, is that not only are we seeing the number of cases going up in so many places. Each region of the nation is also seeing an increase in the number of hospitalizations. And that is what you see before you see an increase in the number of deaths. Fortunately, the treatment for this has improved. But I expect, with the increase in hospitalizations, we will see an increase in deaths.</s>BLITZER: Yes, and the CDC is now forecasting -- projecting up to 240,000 American deaths by November 7, just a few days after the November 3 election. The president, on the other hand, says the U.S. is doing fine -- his word, fine. But based on all the modeling being done by the CDC, we're still a long way from the end of this pandemic right now, aren't we?</s>BESSER: Well, this is still early days. The CDC director has said that nowhere -- no more than 10 to 15 percent of people in this country have been infected. That leaves a lot of people who are still susceptible to this. You know, Wolf, there's there's there's a really damning report out today in ProPublica that looks at the fall of CDC, and the influence of politics in their work. And the influence has been catastrophic, in terms of not allowing proper public health recommendations to come forward, and not allowing CDC to make the case for the measures that we need to do as a nation to keep the number of deaths as low as possible.</s>BLITZER: You heard Dr. Fauci warning Americans that they might not necessarily be able to have gatherings like Thanksgiving as usual, as they traditionally do every year, given the fact that this coronavirus pandemic seems to be escalating right now. Is he right about that?</s>BESSER: Well, I think everyone needs to be careful. And everyone needs to look at who's inside their bubble, what the risks are to the people that they have close contact with, and think about the risks of bringing other people into that close setting. If there's a group of people that you have been associating with throughout this, and you're having the same exposures, then that's a group that you might be able to celebrate Thanksgiving with. But the idea of people coming together from all over the country, exposing people who are at great risk, could have grave consequences. And, Wolf, this will be a time as well when a lot of students are returning from colleges and universities, bringing whatever exposures they had across the country. We're going to want to make sure that those individuals coming back can be kept away from people who are at highest risk. And, for many households, in particular lower-income households, that is very challenging to do.</s>BLITZER: It's a whole new way of living right now. Dr. Fauci is also warning Americans about what's called herd immunity. That's a strategy that's actually being pushed -- hard to believe -- it's actually being pushed by some inside the White House. Why is herd immunity such a dangerous concept for a disease like the coronavirus?</s>BESSER: Well, when I think of herd immunity, as a pediatrician and an infectious disease epidemiologist, I think about it in terms of, how many people do you need, what percentage of the population do you need to vaccinate to protect those in your community who can't get the vaccine, so, people who may have cancer or have immune problems that puts them at great risk? And it varies for different infections. But the idea of letting an infectious disease run rampant around young people, and thinking that young people will just keep to young people, and that the people who are at greatest risk with underlying medical conditions or the elderly will be kept separate, is absolutely ludicrous. We are a connected society. And this kind of policy is going to have racist implications. And the same populations, black Americans, Latino Americans, Native Americans, who've been hit the hardest, will get hit even harder with this kind of approach, where you're just letting the virus run rampant.</s>BLITZER: Yes.</s>BESSER: It's very reckless.</s>BLITZER: Let's not forget, young people, they may have limited, very minor symptoms or asymptomatic, but they can simply pass it on to their parents, their grandparents, a lot of friends and neighbors as well. So, it's obviously very serious. Dr. Besser, thank you so much for joining us.</s>BESSER: Thank you, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Just ahead: a Republican senator heard blasting President Trump, saying he secretly mocks evangelicals and flirts with white supremacy. Plus, Joe Biden learns he was on a plane with someone who actually tested positive after a COVID scare for Senator Kamala Harris. We have new details, new information coming into THE SITUATION ROOM.

Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE) is Interviewed About the Judge Amy Coney Barrett's Supreme Court Nomination.

BLITZER: The Senate Judiciary Committee will vote a week from today to advance Judge Amy Coney Barrett's nomination to the Supreme Court, setting up her confirmation by the end of this month. Democrats attempted to delay the process today, saying they've had inadequate time to review the nominee. We're joined now by Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware. He's a member of the Judiciary Committee as well as a very strong supporter of Joe Biden. Senator Coons, thanks so much for joining us. And as you've been hearing all day, Senate Democrats -- they are facing some serious criticism for what some view was a cautious approach to questioning Judge Barrett. Is there anything more your party could have done to oppose her nomination over the past few days?</s>SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): No, Wolf. We used every procedural tool we had available. And, frankly, I thought we launched a very coordinated, focused, capable challenge both to Judge Barrett's legal philosophy, her writings, to demonstrate her impact. And we worked tirelessly to make it clear to the American people what's at risk, what's at stake, both what's at the -- on the docket of the Supreme Court, what are the cases that are coming up soon, where having her seated might make a dramatic difference in the lives of the average American and what's on the ballot. Over and over, Democrats focused on real people from our home states, who would be denied coverage if the Affordable Care Act were reversed or repealed. That's on the docket of the Supreme Court a week after the election, which is just 19 days from today. And, Wolf, I think we made it clear, every one of us, that we opposed this rush in partisan proceeding, and we had profound and justifiable questions about how Judge Barrett, if she becomes Justice Barrett, might carry out President Trump's promise that his next justice would overturn the Affordable Care Act, reverse Roe versus Wade, and may well be the deciding vote in an election dispute should one arise from this upcoming presidential election.</s>BLITZER: But do you acknowledge it's probably over, it's a done deal, she's going to get confirmed, the Republicans -- they have the majority. The Democrats are the minority.</s>COONS: If the Republicans are determined to keep racing forward with this unprecedented confirmation this close to a presidential election, in which more than half the states are voting, there's nothing else we can do except appeal to the American people.</s>BLITZER: I want you to listen to part of a recording from a campaign telephone town hall given by your colleague, Republican Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska. It's very stark. Here's what he said, this is a Republican, speaking about the president in a public town hall with Nebraskans. Listen to this.</s>SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): He mocks evangelicals behind closed doors. His family has treated the presidency like a business opportunity. He's flirted with white supremacists. I mean, the places where we differed on COVID, he -- at the beginning of the COVID crisis, he refused to treat it seriously. For months, he treated it like a news cycle by news cycle PR crisis rather than a multi-year public health challenge, which is what it is.</s>BLITZER: What's your reaction to that, Senator Coons?</s>COONS: It's striking that Senator Sasse is repeating out loud in Nebraska what millions of Americans already know, but most Republican senators won't confirm, which is that President Trump has badly mishandled our nation's response to this pandemic. As a result, nearly 8 million Americans are infected, more than 120,000 dead. And we are facing a second Great Depression if we can't deliver another round of COVID relief. Why Republicans aren't more forceful in publicly calling on President Trump to change course and to take his responsibilities for our public health and safety seriously, is beyond me. If you watched the proceedings of the last couple of days, Wolf, I made several personal appeals to my Republican colleagues, like Senator Sasse who serves on the Judiciary Committee with me, to step back from the precipice of confirming Judge Barrett, and instead work together in the better interest of this country to prevent this ongoing challenge of the pandemic, the recession, and the ways in which President Trump is an unconventional president, putting our very democracy at risk.</s>BLITZER: Senator Coons, thanks so much for joining us.</s>COONS: Thank you, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: All right. We're going to have more news just ahead.

"Ominous" Signs COVID Second Wave is Now Hitting U.S. as Deaths Top 217,000 and Cases Near 8 Million; Trump Claims U.S. "Doing Fine" as New Cases Surge and CDC Projects Up to 23,000 More Deaths by Nov. 7; Trump Falsely Claims Dr. Fauci, Who has Served Under 6 Presidents, is a Democrat

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: May his memory and the memories of all of those we've lost to this horrible virus be a blessing. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter @jaketapper. You can tweet the show @theleadcnn. Our coverage on CNN continues right now. Thanks for watching.</s>WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room. We're following breaking news, ominous signs right now that the United States is entering a dreaded second wave of the coronavirus pandemic as the death toll here in the U.S. now tops 217,000 people and the number of confirmed cases approaches 8 million. Despite that very grim reality, President Trump says the country is, "doing fine," a claim belied by a new CDC projection of up to 23,000 more U.S. COVID deaths by November 7. The President is just arriving in Miami to participate in one of two dueling town halls tonight replacing a debate that was cancelled after Mr. Trump refused to take part virtually due to his coronavirus infection. Let's start off our coverage of our Miami right now. Our Chief White House Correspondent Jim Acosta is on the scene for us. Jim the President, he's in clearly in full campaign mode with less than three weeks to go until the election?</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. President Trump is on his way to a town hall here in Miami after he backed out of what was supposed to be a presidential debate with Joe Biden. The President is already claiming he's being, "set up in tonight's town hall." Mr. Trump is also attacking one of his administration's top health experts Dr. Anthony Fauci. That's despite the fact that the President was featuring Fauci in one of his campaign ads just a few days ago.</s>ACOSTA (voice-over): On the night of dueling televised town halls with Democrat Joe Biden, President Trump is complaining about imaginary forces conspiring against him from the news media --</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So you're not being set up tonight, right? And so they asked me if I do it, I figured what the hell, we get a free hour on television.</s>ACOSTA: -- to Dr. Anthony Fauci from the President's own Coronavirus Task Force.</s>TRUMP: And yes, my friend and he's a nice guy, Tony, Tony Fauci, he's a nice guy. He said, this is not a threat. This is not a problem. Don't worry about this. There's no problem. It's the craziest thing. But he's a nice guy. So I keep him around, right? We keep him around.</s>ACOSTA: The President is lashing out at one of the nation's most trusted health expert just days after Fauci was taken out of context in a Trump campaign</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I can't imagine that anybody could be doing more.</s>ACOSTA: After that, the President's attack on Fauci came as Mr. Trump staged yet another rally where many supporters were not social distancing and not wearing masks. Just like top White House officials traveling with the President, Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and advisor Hope Hicks, who weren't using masks as they boarded Air Force One. Even as the virus is raging out of control, the President is insisting his administration has a handle on the pandemic.</s>TRUMP: We're not doing any more lockdowns and we're doing fine.</s>ACOSTA: But this is fine? The Centers for Disease Control is forecasting as many as 240,000 deaths by November 7, with 59,000 new cases. And 985 deaths reported Wednesday. Mr. Trump is portraying himself as a warrior against lockdowns blasting Democratic leaders like Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer.</s>TRUMP: And they ought to open up the states. That's the other thing with the Democrats, maybe more important, open up the stage. She wants to be a dictator in Michigan. And the people can't stand her and they want to get back, and they want to get back to work.</s>ACOSTA: It's not clear how seriously the President has taken the virus as you he conceded he's not being tested every day for COVID-19.</s>TRUMP: I'm tested not every day, but I'm tested a lot. I was really tested a lot after I got rid of it because they wanted to make sure and I was tested a lot.</s>ACOSTA: Contradicting what the White House said earlier this year.</s>KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President is the most tested man in America. He's tested more than anyone multiple times a day. And we believe that he's acting appropriately.</s>ACOSTA: President is again raising worries about what he'll do after Election Day, refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses.</s>TRUMP: I'm not saying anything. I'm saying this, I think everybody says it, you have to have a fair election.</s>ACOSTA: Mr. Trump is continuing his war of words with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi even as she is negotiating with administration officials over a new coronavirus relief bill.</s>TRUMP: She's got a lot of problems. She's got a lot of mental problems. And it's going to be very hard to do anything with her. She wants to wait till after the election. She thinks it hurts the Republicans and I don't. I think it hurts them.</s>ACOSTA: Complicating those talks and Republicans want a stimulus package that's far smaller than what Pelosi and the administration are discussing.</s>SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R) MAJORITY LEADER: The word discussions going on between the</s>ACOSTA: Now, during his attack on Dr. Fauci earlier today, the President accused the administration's health expert of being a Democrat. There is no evidence that is the case. More importantly, it's a ridiculous charge because Fauci as we know, Wolf, has served under six presidents from both parties. And when he was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the president at that time was a Republican, George W. Bush. Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Yes. Terrible what he's saying about Dr. Fauci terrible, indeed. All right Jim Acosta, thank you very much. Let's get some more of the breaking pandemic news. Brian Todd is working on more on this story for us. Brian, health experts are warning almost -- they've been warning from almost the beginning that the U.S. potentially could face a second wave of this virus certainly seems to be the case. We're seeing elements of that emerging right now.</s>BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. Lots of talk tonight about a second wave happening. You've got record cases in Illinois, and other states. You know, new coronavirus cases across America are shooting up to disturbing new levels. And you've got health officials now warning of new dangers outside of American cities.</s>TODD: New warnings tonight that this pandemic is taking a devastating toll on rural America. Tennessee's Health Commissioner sounding an alarm for her state.</s>DR. LISA PIERCEY, TENNESSEE HEALTH COMMISSIONER: That has been very startling to me and the team over the last several days, our death rate in rural population is double that in the urban population.</s>TODD: In Kentucky, one of at least seven states that have just reported record high hospitalizations for one day. The governor says residents need to be jolted into action.</s>GOV. ANDY BESHEAR, (D) KENTUCKY: Everybody ought to be concerned and everybody ought to be doing the right thing. And those that are out there that try to confront you for wearing a mask or being a jerk, that's all they are. And they're putting your health at risk.</s>TODD: Wisconsin just reported more than a thousand hospitalizations. Its highest number for a single day since the pandemic began. What's behind the spikes in rural areas across the U.S.?</s>JESSICA MALATY RIVERA, THE COVID TRACKING PROJECT: Some of the bigger mandates that happen in cities like mask wearing and physical distancing are not really transmitting or going as far as rural areas.</s>TODD: And concerns tonight about other states with large rural populations getting hit harder. In Georgia, the governor's executive orders requiring social distancing and limiting mass gatherings expire at midnight tonight and so far haven't been extended. This comes as 35 states are trending upward and experiencing new coronavirus cases. And for the first time in months, the U.S. recorded nearly 60,000 new cases in one day on Wednesday.</s>RIVERA: A lot of reasons that can explain these trends, number one, fall weather usually brings colder temperatures and that means more people are doing indoor activities, which is very high risk when it comes to virus transmission. We're seeing some restrictions loosening in several states.</s>TODD: Meantime, America's top voice on the pandemic citing the dangers of household gatherings told ABC that this year more Americans may have to forego bringing their extended families together for Thanksgiving.</s>FAUCI: We really have to be careful this time, and each individual family evaluate the risk benefit of doing that.</s>TODD: And there's new pushback to the idea of so called herd immunity, letting the virus run unchecked through communities so more people would contract COVID-19. The thought being, some could later develop resistance to the virus. It's been promoted by some scientists and some people in the Trump administration. But 14 public health organizations are condemning the idea.</s>FAUCI: If you just let things rip and let the infection go, no masks, crowd, it doesn't make any difference. That quite frankly, is ridiculous.</s>TODD: And there's new concerns tonight that another great fall institution college football could be in some jeopardy. The biggest name in the sport, Alabama head coach Nick Saban has tested positive. The coach of the University of Mississippi says his team is, "having issues with COVID after playing Alabama last Saturday." And a big game between Florida and LSU slated for this coming weekend has had to be postponed at least until December after several members of the Florida program tested positive. Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Yes. Clearly this coronavirus pandemic is escalating, you know, even as we speak. Brian, thank you very much. Let's get some more on all of this. Our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is joining us. Sanjay, based on the growing number of new cases, the growing number of hospitalizations, the U.S. is clearly beginning to see what the experts call a second wave of the virus. Are we headed for another surge in deaths? I hope not, but potentially like the one we saw in the early spring?</s>DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, unfortunately, Wolf, it sort of looks that way. I mean, you know, if you look at the map overall for some time, it was sort of this patchwork, right? You saw this increasing in cases and one part of the country stable or even decreasing other parts of the country. And the wave sort of moved across the country, back and forth and up and down. But as you point out Wolf now, more states than not actually increasing in numbers, none really going down anymore. So, it's starting to really consolidate around this second wave unfortunately. And Wolf, you know, there's not a lot of context for this, right? Though, call them wave in part because as you mentioned what happened back in 1918, and we can show that again, there were sort of three major waves at that point and it was the second wave. There, if you can see that it's a little bit smaller. If you can see that timeline sort of fits exactly with what's happening now, sort of saw a significant pick. You know the first wave in the spring, they had a much -- more significant leveling off. And then the second wave, which began sort of in October timeframe is the real concern. Wolf, that's exponential growth that you're looking at, the line that goes straight up. And that's what everyone's talking about and trying to prevent.</s>BLITZER: Yes. And what was really disturbing, the CDC now forecasting what -- up to 240,000 U.S. deaths by November 7, only in a few weeks, 217,000 deaths right now, that means what, another 23,000 deaths in the next few weeks. The President claims the U.S. is in his words, doing fine. He says, doing just fine. Almost a thousand Americans are dying every day. Yesterday, we just checked, 985 Americans died just yesterday. Why is the President of United States saying we're doing fine?</s>GUPTA: No, I mean, I think he's obviously trying to paint a rosy picture here. You know, the numbers obviously tell a very different story. And, you know, we look at the overall number of people who are newly infected, and you know, 10s of thousands, 50, 60,000 people a day, it's unbelievable that we just talked about that as if it's a, you know, it's a daily thing now. I mean, there are countries around the world that haven't had that many cases, near that many cases throughout this entire pandemic. And it's a daily thing here. The concern though, Wolf, is that, you know, the death rate, you know, the number of infections go up, but we're still seeing, even though younger people may be more likely getting infected, we're still seeing as you point out these tragic deaths. So you know, this idea that if you're young and you're healthy, doesn't matter. It does matter. Because the death rate has not gone down. It's going up and that people are spreading it even if they don't know it.</s>BLITZER: And nearly 60,000 confirmed cases here in the United States just yesterday, and nearly a thousand deaths. All right, Sanjay, thank you very much. Dr. Sanjay Gupta always helping us. Up next, we'll have more on tonight's dueling presidential town halls. We'll also check in on the Biden campaign and what we can expect from the Democratic presidential nominee. Plus, serious concerns over the coronavirus keeping his running mate Kamala Harris off the campaign trail. And we're just learning that someone on former Vice President Biden's plane has now just tested positive as well. We'll update you on that. Stay with this.

Trump Arrives in Miami as He and Biden Set to Hold Dueling Town Hall.

BLITZER: The breaking news this hour, President Trump arriving in Miami for a town hall that will go head to head with the Joe Biden town hall in Philadelphia. The debate that was scheduled for tonight was cancelled after President Trump refused to take part virtually despite his coronavirus infection. Our Political Correspondent Arlette Saenz is covering the Biden campaign for us. She's in Philadelphia already. Arlette, so what should we expect from this town hall tonight?</s>ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Joe Biden will be taking questions directly from voters as he participates in an ABC News town hall here in Philadelphia. This town hall coming about happening on the night that that second presidential debate was supposed to be held. The Biden campaign had agreed to a virtual debate, but the President cancelled it. And once he backed out the Biden campaign said that they were going to make other plans, scheduling this town hall. Biden has participated in quite a few town halls over the course of his candidacy, including several with CNN. And his campaign in the past have felt that these have been favorable formats for the former vice president to directly speak to voters. Now this town hall is being held here in Philadelphia by ABC News. The moderator this morning said that Biden will receive a mix of questions from a mix of people, undecided voters, and some people who've already made up their minds for supporting either Biden or Trump. And everyone inside that room will be tested for coronavirus. ABC News says the former vice president himself tested negative for coronavirus last night. And this is coming as we are just 8 -- 19 days out from Election Day and Joe Biden is entering that final stretch with a lot of cash. His campaign announced last night that he raised $383 million dollars in the month of September. A major financial advantage he has at this moment.</s>BLITZER: Yes, a ton of ton of money. All right, Arlette, thank you very much. Let's dig deeper right now. Our CNN Political Correspondent Abby Phillip is with us. CNN Chief Political Correspondent Dana bash and our Political Director David Chalian -- town halls. But first, the President is launching a new direct attack, Dr. Anthony Fauci, claiming the top doctor is simply a Democrat. These attacks on Dr. Fauci went almost a thousand Americans are dying almost every day. I got to tell you, frankly, disgusting, but what's been the reaction?</s>DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you heard the reaction in the crowd. He was getting some attaboys and applause or maybe the better way to describe it was boos when he said Anthony Fauci's name. And that is because that he -- they somehow, the Trump White House, the President at times, although he has been a little bit more careful, sometimes tongue in cheek but a little bit more careful than others in the Republican Party to really slam out the Anthony Fauci. They've made him into a Boogeyman, which, as you said, makes absolutely no sense. It's as if they can't really make the coronavirus the real enemy, which is that's what it is. It is the virus as the enemy. So, they're making Anthony Fauci who does is as careful and as diplomatic as he can be much more than I think anyone else would be in that position. And it is unfair. And you know, I think the person who would be the most surprised to hear that he's a Democrat is George W. Bush, who gave him, you know, one of the highest honors that a president can give to an American citizen to a civilian. And that's what he did to Dr. Anthony Fauci. And it was well deserved. And I think it's an objective statement to say it still is.</s>BLITZER: Yes. I mean, he's saved so many lives over the years. It's really disgusting. You know, Abby, right now, we're what, 19 days from the presidential election, we've only seen one debate between President Trump and former vice president Biden. Tonight, instead of facing off as all of our viewers know, the candidates are going to appear in separate town halls at exactly the same time. So what impact you think this is going to have on the contest?</s>ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Wolf, it's really interesting, because the President was the one who backed out of a virtual debate, and is doing this town hall instead. But based on his own comments, today, his own tweets today, it seems to suggest that perhaps the President doesn't actually want to do this. He has been slamming NBC News, he's been sort of pre spinning the town hall tonight, a town hall with voters and saying that it's going to be, you know, bad for him, or that the audience is going to be stacked against him. This is a president who does not sound like someone who thinks that this is a golden opportunity to have the stage all to himself to speak to the American public. I think in terms of how this affects the race, it remains to be seen, it is not going to be possible for voters really to watch both of these at the same time. So you're going to see the audience sort of bifurcate itself. And I think that's going to lead to sort of reinforcing people's already preconceived notions, not adding much to the debate. And so I think that's really unfortunate for this race. But you know, the President's comments and behavior today, it leads me to question what kind of Donald Trump are we going to see tonight? And will he use this as an opportunity to change the narrative around his presidency and his candidacy? And it seems like he's gearing up for it to be just more of the same, which so far has been very, very damaging to him among key groups like women voters and older voters, seniors in particular.</s>BLITZER: So David Chalian, what is the president need to do starting tonight, 19 days to go to change things around because the polls are not really good for him right now.</s>DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: They're not Wolf. And as Abby suggesting, the advice would probably be from his advisors to try and redirect his closing argument here as best he can. Deal with coronavirus head on and then try to highlight some of the good in the economy in the building back in the plan to restore America to sort of a post COVID time. But that's not what Donald Trump does. That's like in some laboratory over here in politics. And so, what Donald Trump does is he lays out his grievances, he tries to throw mud up and distract away instead of dealing head on with the pandemic that every American is dealing with. And it is because those have been his strategies and his tactics that he is in the position he's in. These are fleeting opportunities for him now. You noted 19 days left. There's only one more debate. You don't get this kind of shot at millions of viewers tuning in, where you can really sell your message. There aren't many of those left, Wolf, in this campaign. And remember, 70 million people have already voted. We're over the 10 percent mark of votes cast and what is it -- in the expected electorate. Time is running out each day for Donald Trump. And these kinds of opportunities should not be squandered.</s>BLITZER: All right, David, thank you. Dana, Abby, guys, thanks very, very much. Into our viewers, stay with CNN tonight. Democratic vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris will join our own Don Lemon after the dueling town halls. That's live at 10 p.m. Eastern later tonight. Coming up, is President Trump in denial or is he still trying to downplay the coronavirus pandemic? I'll ask the veteran journalist Bob Woodward who spent hours interviewing the President for his new book "Rage." Plus, new restrictions in Europe right now. They are emerging as new cases on the continent, our surgeon.

Woodward: Sasse "Got Caught Telling The Truth"

BLITZER: President Trump is in Florida right now after wrapping up a rally earlier in the day in North Carolina. As with all of his rallies this week, the President made some wild, totally unsubstantiated claims in front of his supporters who ignore social distancing guidelines and despite all this happening, despite a second wave of coronavirus cases sweeping the country. We're joined now by the veteran journalist Bob Woodward. He's the Associate Editor at the Washington Post. He's also the author of the bestselling brand new book entitled "Rage" about President Trump and his administration. Bob, thanks so much for joining us. The U.S. clearly now entering a second wave --</s>BOB WOODWARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: Thank you.</s>BLITZER: -- so disturbing. The President telling Americans as he did today, everything is fine. He use the word fine. Is the President in denial or is he still trying to downplay the virus like he admitted to you he was doing back in the spring?</s>WOODWARD: I think it's both. And I want to go back to that January 28 meeting, which is really when this began for him when his national , when his national security adviser Robert O'Brien said this will be, the virus will be the biggest national security threat to your presidency. And then Pottinger, Matt Pottinger, the deputy who'd been in China laid out. Now here's what's really interesting is we look back on this. Pottinger laid out what was coming. But what he said to the President was, look, China is in trouble because they are in denial officially, that the experts, the health experts, and Pottinger head sources know that this is going to be a pandemic. And the big problem is that the Chinese government will not officially tell the population what is happening. And so now, we see would have 10 months later, the President doing exactly the same thing. He was warned about by Matt Pottinger saying to him, look, the Chinese lied, this is their habit. This is why they are in trouble. This is why they literally at one point, the next month in February, the Chinese lockdown, half the country amid. And when the Chinese locked down, it's not just, oh, please don't leave your home, they lock you in your home. So literally, the President had the description of Chinese behavior that's so cat -- was so catastrophic for the Chinese. Now, we're experiencing precisely that. It is Orwellian plus, plus.</s>WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: And it looks like it's getting worse by the day, as I said, almost 1,000 Americans died just yesterday. According to the New York Times, Bob, early on in the pandemic, Trump administration officials gave private briefings on the virus to wealthy investors that were much more dire than the public message, the administration was sending out there that sort of lines up with your reporting, doesn't it?</s>WOODWARD: It does. And the idea that there's a secret channel to investors is horrifying and corrupt whether it was intended that way or not. As, you know, as reporters were always looking for inside information, what really happened, business people, investors who have tens of billions of dollars hinge on whether you make a smart move. So information is power and the information is money. And this is a kind of corruption of the system. And again, you have to go back and put this on President Trump's shoulders. He knew he had the opportunity. He has the bully pulpit. He could have in so many ways, warn the public in the duty to warn is probably the first responsibility a president has. And so this is turning into a nightmare. I believe it's turning into not only a health nightmare, but a political nightmare, not just for the Republican Party, but for the whole country, because the political system we have, it seems that we can't deal with the reality of what is right before us. Here we had, what 10 days ago, the President wasn't even that, the President of the United States saying, getting the virus is a blessing from God.</s>BLITZER: Yes.</s>WOODWARD: Now suppose you have somebody in your family who died of this. You had to shiver. So I think we're at, just to summarize, in one of the most dangerous periods in American history, because we're not in control of this. The President is not in control. And we have a political system that seems to also be dysfunctional.</s>BLITZER: In your excellent book "Rage". You interviewed a whole bunch of folks, including people that work very closely with the President, a lot of Republicans. I want to play for you, you know, Bob some new audio that has just emerged of Republican, Republican Senator Ben Sasse talking about the President. I want you to listen to this.</s>SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): He mocks evangelicals behind closed doors, his family has treated the presidency like a business opportunity. He's flirted with white supremacists. I mean, the places where we differed on COVID, he, at the beginning of the COVID crisis he refused to treat it seriously. For months, he treated it like a news cycle by news cycle PR crisis rather than a multi-year public health challenge which is what it is.</s>BLITZER: Remember, that's a Republican senator from Nebraska, Ben Sasse, saying those things. What do you make of that?</s>WOODWARD: What I make of it is he got caught telling the truth. And as I know, there's other Republican senators who feel exactly the same way. And they have not yet been caught, and more catastrophically, they won't share with the public the conclusion, the private collusion conclusion they have. And so, you know, I am sure more people are going to get caught on this. And I want -- what does Sasse I said, I haven't heard.</s>BLITZER: You know, they -- his office confirmed that it's an authentic audio clip of what he said in a private conversation that has emerged now. But it's obviously, you know, what I've heard from a whole bunch of Republicans who are refusing to go public and saying things like this, privately, they will say these things, but they're afraid of the President. They don't want to say anything like this publicly. I'm sure you've heard that as well.</s>WOODWARD: Yes. But step back on this and the horror of it, that we have the world of private truth and public untruth. The job of public officials is to find some way to get the private into the mainstream. It really is almost a crime against every voter in this country to not somehow break down that barrier. You know, in our business in the media, we tried to break down that barrier. We try to get behind it and say what's -- what are the real attitudes? What's going on? What are the real motivations? And we have a gigantic breakdown here. It's very dangerous.</s>BLITZER: It's very dangerous indeed. Bob Woodward as usual, thank you very much. And once again, his bestselling book is entitled "Rage", there you see the book cover definitely worth reading. Coming up, a look at the global coronavirus headlines, including leaders announcing very harsh new restrictions, as the new wave of cases is sweeping across Europe. Plus, exclusive CNN reporting and a just concluded government investigation into the money trail for the 2016 Trump campaigns in a turn up anything, we'll be right back.

Tough New Restrictions On Indoor Gathering In Britain

BLITZER: United States isn't the only country dealing with a second wave of the coronavirus, cases are also surging right now across Europe forcing leaders to tighten restrictions big time. Let's begin with CNN's Phil black he's joining us from London right now. So Phil, what are you seeing over there?</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, tough new restrictions on people's personal lives are set to kick in here from Saturday. It will be illegal for people from different households to spend time together. Indoors so no hanging out in bars, restaurants, cafes, even homes making it much harder for people to maintain and draw support from some of their most important relationships it will still be possible to socialize outside in groups of up to six but that's going to become less practical as the winter deepens. London's Mayor Sadiq Khan says there's no choice but to implement these restrictions. Because it is now clear he says the virus is spreading rapidly in all parts of the capital, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Phil Black in London. Thank you. New restrictions meanwhile, going into effect this weekend in hardest cities across France right now CNN's Melissa Bell is there. Melissa, tell us more.</s>MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf here in France, the system of curfews announced by the French President yesterday on television, eight French cities plus the greater Parisian region will see a curfew from 9:00 p.m. until 6:00 a.m. from this Saturday. Also from Saturday, this country enters a state of sanitary emergency which really gives local authorities a great deal of power. If they need to enforce fresh restrictions should they prove necessary for the time being? The figures have been growing with several records set over the course of the last week, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Well, all right Melissa, Melissa Bell in France for us. Meanwhile, a dramatic new surge in cases across Italy is producing some of the worst numbers of the entire pandemic. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in Rome for us. Ben what's the latest there?</s>BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, for the second day in a row, Italy is recording record high increases in the number of COVID-19 cases, numbers far higher than we're seeing at the height of the lockdown earlier this year. Now most of the cases or rather the largest number of cases are in the Lombardy region in the north of the country, which was hardest hit by the pandemic earlier this year. What's different at this time, is that the number of cases reported in Campania where Naples is located in the southern part of the country are dramatic, far higher than in the past. And this is an area that doesn't have the resources to deal with COVID-19. And also has Italy's highest population densities. Also worrying is the fact that the death toll reported Thursday is almost twice that from the day before. Wolf?</s>BLITZER: All right, Ben, thank you, Ben Wedeman in Rome. Coming up, details of a federal investigation into a suspected foreign link to President Trump's 2016 campaign cash. It's a CNN exclusive. Plus, the President claiming his town hall later tonight is a quote setup. We'll be right back.

For Three Years, Feds Chased Suspected Foreign Link To Trump's 2016 $10 Million Donation, With Extraordinary Secrecy

BLITZER: Now for an exclusive new report, CNN has learned that federal prosecutors, including special counsel, Robert Mueller, spent more than three years investigating whether money flowing through an Egyptian state owned bank could have back million, millions of dollars that Donald Trump used, that the Trump campaign used in the 2016 campaign. Ultimately, the Mueller team was not able to obtain all the information it needed nor could the U.S. Attorneys in Washington, who continued the investigation until this year, and decided not to pursue charges. Our senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is joining us right now. Evan, this is not something that was publicly known before today.</s>EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. This was an investigation that was conducted with utmost secrecy. It started soon after Trump won the presidency back in 2016, continued until this summer and has never been described publicly. We spoke to more than a dozen sources familiar with the effort. In addition to what we learned from newly released court documents, some of the hints that we saw from public records. Two other sources told CNN that FBI investigators first came, became interested in the case after intelligence came in, including from an informant that suggested that Trump's last minute $10 million injection into his campaign less than two weeks before the 2016 election could have been backed by money that came from overseas through an Egyptian state owned bank. Now it's not clear that the investigators ever had concrete evidence solid evidence of a relevant bank transfer. But multiple sources told us that there was sufficient information to justify seeking a subpoena in court and to keep this investigation going even after Robert Mueller ended his investigation last year. The investigation was looking into a potential campaign finance law violation. And it began with the FBI and the U.S. attorney here in Washington before Mueller took it on, and it was largely conducted by Mueller's investigators. But when Mueller was done, it went back to the prosecutors here in Washington, who soon afterwards told the court that it was quote, a still a robust probe, but they never felt that they got enough records from the Egyptian bank. Now it's just this summer that the case was officially closed and no charges were filed. Now the big questions that prosecutors were trying to answer but, Wolf, they never did was whether Donald Trump was supported by or indebted to a foreign power. Robert Mueller's office declined to comment and a senior adviser to the Trump 2020 campaign, Jason Miller told CNN quote, President Trump has never received a penny from Egypt.</s>BLITZER: You know, it's very interesting, because was there ever discussion as far as you know, Evan, of trying to get to the bottom of this by actually subpoenaing the President's financial records?</s>PEREZ: Yes, that's one of the more interesting things that we discovered, Wolf, multiple sources told us that last year, as recently as last year, federal prosecutors here in Washington were pushing for the President's financial records to be subpoenaed. The decision went then to the then U.S. Attorney Jessie Liu, who spent weeks looking over the investigative records and she decided to reject the subpoena requests. Were told by sources that Liu decided that they just hadn't met the standard for the subpoena but interestingly, she did not close the case. As for the Justice Department, here's what we were told by a senior justice official for this reporting, quote, the case was first looked at by the special counsel investigators who failed to bring a case, and then it was looked at by the U.S. Attorney's Office and career prosecutors in the national security section, who also were unable to bring a case. Based upon the recommendations of both the FBI and those prosecutors, Michael Sherwin, the acting U.S. attorney, formally closed the case in July.</s>BLITZER: The special counsel's office I understand, Evan, was known for keeping their various investigative threads under wraps. But there were never any leaks about this even after the case was formally closed. How did they go about keeping all this secret?</s>PEREZ: Yes, I mean, we we've covered this investigation for so long, Wolf, and very few details ever came out. They never mentioned it in the Mueller report. It was listed among 11 cases that Mueller transferred to other prosecutors when his investigation ended. But that entry was redacted. The only indication was this secretive court proceedings over the subpoena that Mueller's team issued to a unnamed foreign company for records. Now the Mueller's team was going to the extent of actually locking down an entire floor of the federal courthouse so that attorneys could come in and leave without being seen. Now neither the company nor the details of what prosecutors were looking for was ever being, was ever publicly released. But CNN was told that it was this fight over this with the state owned Egyptian bank. By the way, Wolf, the spokesman for the Egyptian President declined to comment for this story.</s>BLITZER: And Evan, now this investigation continued under Bill Barr's Justice Department, the Attorney General. Did prosecutors actually explain why?</s>PEREZ: Well, we know that the court, they told the court that the investigation was continuing robustly and quote, they said, very much alive issue. We know about the fact that they were looking to issue a subpoena and they got it rejected. But that's about it until the case was closed. The fact of the matter is, even to this day, the case was closed because investigators never really got an answer to their ultimate question, which was, was Donald Trump supported by or indebted to a foreign power, Wolf?</s>BLITZER: Evan Perez, excellent, excellent reporting. Thank you very much. Coming up, as a second wave of the coronavirus pandemic sweeps the U.S., President Trump claims the country is quote, doing fine.

Rudy Giuliani's Daughter Endorses Joe Biden

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And good evening. It would be one thing to say this is a busy Friday night, except busy really doesn't begin to cover it. Virtually nothing in the headlines tonight is remotely normal, or even to be expected, in any ordinary presidential campaign so close to election day. In the last 24 hours or so, we've seen the president of the United States declined to repudiate a conspiracy group that believes Hollywood celebrities, and Democratic leaders drink the blood of children, and worship Satan. We've seen the president get duped by a satirical site into tweeting that Twitter shut down the entire service to block a favorite news story of his. A story we learned from two sources late today that authorities are actually investigating for potential ties to a Russian disinformation campaign. We also learned that a prominent Republican governor, Maryland's Larry Hogan, has cast his ballot for Ronald Reagan. Deceased, former president, not the living, breathing, leader of his own party. We watched another leading Republican, an adviser no less to the president, Chris Christie, single out what he calls the White House's cavalier attitude toward coronavirus. We saw the president today hold a mass gathering of some of the most vulnerable people to the virus, seniors. And late today, we learned this from new reporting by CNN's Jake Tapper. The president's former chief of staff, General John Kelly, has told friends Donald Trump is, quote, the most flawed person, unquote, he's ever met. The account is part of a new CNN special airing Sunday night. Here is the rest of what General Kelly said. Quote: The depths of his dishonesty is just astounding to me. The dishonesty, transactional nature of every relationship, though it's pathetic more than anything else. He is the most flawed person I have ever met in my life. That is just part of the picture tonight. Dominating all of it, the fact that now more than 8 million Americans have contracted the coronavirus and the death toll is quickly approaching 220,000. What's worse, unlike the last surges, this one is not limited to any one single region. It's nationwide. Today in Florida, however, speaking to seniors, here's what the president said.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My message to America's seniors today is one of optimism, confidence, and hope. Your sacrifice has not been in vain. The light at the end of the tunnel is near. We are rounding the turn. I say that all the time. Some of the media doesn't like hearing it but I say it all the time. We're rounding that turn. We are prevailing and we are. It's amazing what's happening, if you look at what's been going on. It's been really, very amazing.</s>COOPER: Well, he's right about that. It is very amazing what's going on. Perhaps stunning would be a better word. Florida is now averaging nearly 2,800 new cases a day. That's up from 2,400 just a week ago. North Carolina where the president spoke to maskless crowds yesterday set a new record for cases today. And Wisconsin, where he visits tomorrow, they now have a positivity rate of more than 26 percent. Potentially, one in four people at his rally in Jamesville, Wisconsin, tomorrow, could be carrying the virus. This is what the president calls really, very amazing. His surgeon general, today, called it something else.</s>DR. JEROME ADAMS, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: I want you all to be aware that Wisconsin is currently one of our red states. Meaning, your positivity rates are over 10 percent and going in the wrong direction. Cases are in the red, going in the wrong direction. It is critical that we actually understand where this virus is circulating, so that we can get cases under control and reverse positivity.</s>COOPER: Well, this afternoon, the president said, and I am quoting now. And my plan is very simple. We're going to crush the virus and go back to exactly where we were. Sadly, he could be right about the second party again, not the way he meant it. America's already in a position, like it has never seen, before. Not since the so-called Spanish flu pandemic. As always, mask wearing was not a priority for the crowd or social distancing, with Florida's positivity rate close to 12 percent. This morning, as we mentioned, former New Jersey governor, Chris Christie, went on ABC's "Good Morning America", called on the president to do more.</s>CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: I think we need to be honest with the American people and just say directly to them we don't know everything we need to know about this disease, at this point, George. But what we do know is that masks can, certainly, help. Do they prevent everything? Of course, there is nothing that prevents everything. But we should be very affirmative. Leaders all across the politics, sports, the media, should be saying to people, put your masks on and be safe until we get a vaccine that can help to protect us.</s>COOPER: Governor Christie, as you know, came down with COVID. He attended that super spreader event for Amy Coney Barrett at the White House. He also prepped the president for his debate in Cleveland. Oh, and, by the way, he said that no one from the White House did any contact tracing with him, and said he regrets not wearing a mask when he was there.</s>CHRISTIE: It was a mistake. You know, I -- I was led to believe that, you know, all the people that I was interacting with at the White House had been tested. And it gave you a false sense of security. And it was a mistake.</s>COOPER: Rudy Giuliani, also, helped with debate prep. He did not contract COVID, thankfully. But new CNN reporting says that federal authorities want to know whether he's been spreading something else, namely, Russian disinformation. According to an official, as well as a congressional source briefed on the matter, federal authorities are investigating whether e-mails purporting to detail the business dealings of Joe Biden's son in Ukraine and China are connected to an ongoing Russian disinformation campaign. They were published in stories by "The New York Post" CNN has not been able to verify. "The Post" says it got them through two Trump confidants. His former chief strategist and now-indicted alleged felon Steve Bannon, and his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani. Our next guest tonight is filmmaker Caroline Giuliani. She's just written a piece for "Vanity Fair". The title: Rudy Giuliani is my father. Please, everyone, vote for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. In it, she writes, quote: If being the daughter of a polarizing mayor who became the president's personal bulldog has taught me anything, it is that corruption starts with yes-men and women, the cronies who create an echo chamber of lies and subservience to maintain their proximity to power. And Caroline Giuliani joins me now. Thanks very much for being with us. What made you want to speak out? Because it's not an easy thing to do what you're doing.</s>CAROLINE ROSE GIULIANI, RUDY GIULIANI'S DAUGHTER: First of all, thank you for having me. I really respect your work, and it's an honor to be here. I -- I chose to speak out now -- well, this has actually been boiling up in me for a very long time, and I think our country has been in crisis for four years, if not more, and it just felt like the time because I wanted to make sure that I didn't get to November 3rd, and regret not having said more to get people out there to vote.</s>COOPER: But you are -- I mean, you're somebody who has worked very hard to make a name for yourself, to -- you're a filmmaker, and to -- you know, to live a life on your own terms. To then enter into this arena, pointing out that you are the child of someone well-known, it's -- it's just a brave thing to do, given that it's completely antithetical to kind of how you've lived your life.</s>GIULIANI: Yes, thank you. I -- that was definitely a difficult part of the decision, because I didn't particularly want to identify myself that way. But I felt that because of my experience growing up in politics, and feeling so overwhelmed by them, and the difficult nature of them, I was just seeing that around me, that everyone else was now feeling what I've been feeling my whole life. And I just wanted to make sure that people didn't, you know, turn around and climb in a hole, that they, instead, dive -- dive into it and vote. That's the only way to change this.</s>COOPER: Yes. In the piece you write, and I'm quoting: I may not be able to change my father's mind, but together, we can vote this toxic administration out of office. Is -- have you talked to your father since this was published? Did he know you're going to do this?</s>GIULIANI: I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I was thinking about writing a little something. I haven't spoken to him since -- since it was published, but, if it were me, I'd be very proud of my daughter.</s>COOPER: I mean, for any family, you know, all families have differences in opinion, and political differences, and, you know, this is -- maybe on a different scale. But how do you normally deal with it? Is it something you just choose not to talk about politics with, you know, he is your dad after all? Or do you -- I mean, in the article, you talk about, at times, you feel like there -- you have no other choice but to address certain issues.</s>GIULIANI: Yes, I think those things boil up and at a certain point, you can't -- at least I couldn't repress them. But it was definitely give-and-take throughout my whole life. I just think that now, we come to such at a point of crisis that I've just had no choice but to say something. I -- there's toxic and -- environment of bullying and vicious sniping, needs to be turned around, and I really think that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris can do that. I absolutely love Kamala Harris. I --</s>COOPER: Joe Biden was not your first choice?</s>GIULIANI: Not initially, but I was keeping my options open, and seeing what people had to say, and I was a huge fan of kamala. And when Joe Biden picked Kamala, I got so excited because it just -- I feel like it reflected that he's willing to have people who challenge him around him, and that is the way to break up the echo chamber of yes-men and -- which I think is a huge problem right now.</s>COOPER: You end the piece by saying: We are hanging by a single, slipping finger on the cliff's edge, and the fall will be fatal. If we remove ourselves from the fight, our country will be in freefall. Alternatively, we can hang on, elect a compassionate and decent president, and claw our way back onto the ledge. If I, after decades of despair over politics can engage in our democracy to make this critical moment, I know you can too. When you see "The Washington Post" report that, you know, the White House was warned that your dad, you know, was, quote, being used to feed Russian disinformation to the president, just seeing that in the news, what goes through your mind as -- I can't imagine it.</s>GIULIANI: No, I choose to focus on what we can do to fix this problem. I think that that's where we all need to be focusing our energy. I think that that is by making sure that everyone votes, and chooses to elect someone who has empathy, and will start to turn this country around.</s>COOPER: Do you -- are you campaigning for Biden? Or, is this -- is this kind of it?</s>GIULIANI: I'm open to continuing to speak out for him. I'll probably go in a few podcasts. But, yes, I'm definitely on Team Biden, and happy to help however I can.</s>COOPER: It's also interesting, because so many people focus on the president and his, you know, lies and the choices he makes, but you -- you talk about the yes-men and women, the people around who enable all of this, who make it possible.</s>GIULIANI: Yes. As a filmmaker, you know, I think plenty about what causes people to do what they do. So, I've spent my whole life kind of examining the psychology behind fame and power, and I find that very interesting and compelling, and also revealing. And I think that, yes, no one -- no one becomes as tyrannical as Trump has without a bunch of people telling him -- supporting him.</s>COOPER: This may be too personal a question. If it is, you know, don't (ph) answer, obviously. But what do you think led your down -- your dad down this path? Because, obviously, there are a lot of people -- I don't know your dad personally at all -- there's a lot of people who, you know, did know who him, who say that he seems different than he was, than the person they knew many years ago.</s>GIULIANI: Yes. I don't know that I can really speak to that, but what I do feel is that Trump has created an environment. And I think that a lot of people's behavior is symptomatic of this toxic environment that he's created. And it's gotten worse every year since he's been elected.</s>COOPER: You hear -- when you hear people saying things now that they seem to feel emboldened to say things that maybe previously, they would have kept to themselves. And it's often coming from the kind of most core part of the brain, or like the deepest set of unattractive parts of our human nature.</s>GIULIANI: Yes. I mean, I find it really sad that he's encouraged that type of discriminatory behavior, and it's more than sad, it's outrageous. And I think that we need to start correcting that, by electing Joe Biden, and I just really hope that everybody gets excited about him, because I really think that he can turn this thing around.</s>COOPER: Caroline Giuliani, it's really a pleasure to talk to you and I wish you the best.</s>GIULIANI: You too. Thank you for having me.</s>COOPER: Take care. Coming up next, the president's refusal to disavow QAnon and what his supporters think of this bizarre conspiracy cult. And later, with the president holding one or more super-spreader events today, what the latest modeling says about the virus, the surge of the virus, and how many lives mask wearing could save in the months ahead.

Trump: "I Know Nothing About QAnon"; Pres. Trump Attacks Looks On NBC Town Hall Moderator Savannah Guthrie.

COOPER: The president is in Macon, Georgia, tonight. Earlier in Florida, he called last night's television town hall, quote, another evening in paradise. Ahead tonight, a full discussion of how it stacked up against Joe Biden's competing town hall. But right now, one more aspect about it, how he answered questioning from NBC's Savannah Guthrie about the cult known as QAnon.</s>SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Let me ask you about QAnon. It is this theory that Democrats are a satanic pedophile ring, and that you are the savior of that. Now, can you just, once and for all, state that that is completely not true? And disavow QAnon, in its entirety?</s>TRUMP: I know nothing about QAnon.</s>GUTHRIE: I just told you.</s>TRUMP: I know very little. You told me but what you tell me doesn't, necessarily, make it fact. I hate to say that. I know nothing about it. I do know, they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard. But I know nothing about it.</s>GUTHRIE: They believe it is a Satanic cult run by the</s>DNC. TRUMP: Stunning subject. I tell you what I do know about. I know about Antifa and I know about the radical left and I know how violent they are and how vicious they are. And I know had how they are burning down cities run by Democrats, not Republicans.</s>GUTHRIE: Republican Senator Ben Sasse said, quote, QAnon is nuts and real leaders call conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories. Why not just say it's crazy and not true?</s>TRUMP: He may be right. Can I be honest? He may be right. I just don't know about QAnon. Why aren't you asking Joe Biden questions about why doesn't he condemn Antifa?</s>GUTHRIE: Because you're here.</s>TRUMP: Ha, ha, so cute.</s>COOPER: Just a reminder. QAnon is not all about stopping pedophilia. It's all about falsely accusing people of pedophilia. That, and accusing Democrats and well-known actors and artists of being Satan worshippers who drink the blood of children, together, they all get together, have parties where they do that apparently, according to QAnon. There is crossover between QAnon followers and the president, Savannah Guthrie pointed out because according to the cult fantasy, President Trump is secretly working to arrest the global cabal of blood-drinking pedophiles. They used to say he was working with Robert Mueller and the Mueller team, but then the Mueller report came out and they just made up another lie. Our Gary Tuchman is in Macon tonight, spoke with some rallygoers about the cult. Gary, what are they saying to you?</s>GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, President Trump has been speaking for about one hour now in this airport tarmac in Macon, Georgia. Like we've seen before, most people are not wearing masks. They're also not socially distancing. It looks like a mosh pit at a concert. He's been talking about locking up the Biden family, locking up Hillary Clinton. No mention, no surprisingly about QAnon. But as you said, he had a chance last night to condemn QAnon, he did not do it. Today, at this rally just before it started, we talked with supporters who are strong favor QAnon, others who know little about it. But none of them, none of the people we talked to wanted to condemn President Trump's strategy for dealing with it.</s>TUCHMAN: You have the QAnon shirt and one of the things believes in is there's a conspiracy theory, satanic pedophilia. Do you believe in that?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.</s>TUCHMAN: Trump has not criticized the conspiracy QAnon. You say you believe in theories like this.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes, sir, 100 percent.</s>TUCHMAN: You think he has your back by not criticizing it?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I really do. Yes.</s>TUCHMAN: You think he should denounce QAnon?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.</s>TUCHMAN: Why?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because why should he?</s>TUCHMAN: Because they believe in crazy stuff.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's what you guys try to make us believe crazy stuff.</s>TUCHMAN: But do you believe there are Democrats and celebrities who are in a pedophile ring?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do. Yes, I do.</s>TUCHMAN: Where does that come from, that belief?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where does that come from? Why don't you ask little kids?</s>TUCHMAN: No, pedophilia is terrible, but everyone, of course, in the world is against the pedophilia. But to say that Hillary Clinton and Democrats</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me ask you, who do you work for? ABC or</s>CNN. TUCHMAN: CNN. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I'm not talking to</s>CNN. TUCHMAN: It's crazy. It's ludicrous. Does that bother you that he wouldn't say it's wrong?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it didn't because I think he wants to put everything out there so that you can judge for yourself.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've heard it before.</s>TUCHMAN: Yes, you heard it, with all due respect, ma'am, hearing it does not mean it's true.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just believe whatever is wrong he's gong to fix right.</s>TUCHMAN: Donald Trump?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes.</s>TUCHMAN: And do you think the president should have denounced QAnon?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. I don't think he has enough information to denounce QAnon, at this point.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He can tweet anything he wants because we love him. We trust him.</s>TUCHMAN: Now, traditionally, at presidential campaign rallies, particularly in the final month, it is easy to find people undecided or who are curious. You want to go to a rally to decide they should vote for a candidate. At Donald Trump's rallies, finding an undecided voter is like finding a polar bear in Georgia. You do not find any of them. These people are committed and that's why we hear absolutely no complaints about what Donald Trump does or what Donald Trump says -- Anderson.</s>COOPER: All right. Gary Tuchman, Gary, thanks very much. Perspective now from "New York Times" technology columnist Kevin Roose, whose column "Shift" examines the intersection of tech, business and culture. So, Kevin, president could have easily disavowed QAnon. He -- he chose the most, kind of, ridiculous tact of all which is I just don't know anything about it, which is what he always says about Michael Cohen. I don't know who he is. We're not close at all. The reason he is not saying he disavows it is because he knows that QAnon supports him. He is at the core of their fantasy, that he is, single-handedly, battling the deep state and this global cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who are drinking children's blood. Above all else, the group supports the president, he will almost never criticize it. Did it -- did it surprise you, last night, at all? Did anything he said last night surprise you?</s>KEVIN ROOSE, NEW YORK TIMES TECHNOLOGY COLUMNIST: No, it didn't surprise me because one thing we know about this president is that he is extremely reluctant to criticize anyone who likes him. We've seen that with, you know, authoritarians. We have seen that with white supremacists and other fringe groups. And we have seen that, now, several times with QAnon. I mean, this is not the first time he has been presented with the opportunity to disavow QAnon, and has declined to do so. And as you said, I mean, his -- his remark about sort of not knowing anything about it is pretty implausible given the amount of time that he spends on Twitter and watching cable news. It -- it's exceedingly unlikely that he's never heard a basic explanation of what this movement believes about, you know, him or the global cabal or this pedophile ring. So it struck me as particularly galling that he said it was about pedophilia and stopping pedophilia. QAnon -- saying that QAnon is about stopping pedophilia is a little by like saying the moon landing conspiracy theory was about astrophysics. Like it's just not the point.</s>COOPER: Right.</s>ROOSE: The point is to call your enemies pedophiles and to get revenge against them as part of this conspiracy theory.</s>COOPER: Right.</s>ROOSE: It's not -- it has very little to do with actually helping children.</s>COOPER: Right. This is not the center for missing and exploited children. This is -- this bunch of people, online, following directions from a completely unknown poster who, you know, they believe is, you know, a high-level intelligence official or somebody in the -- in the Trump White House, when, in fact, I mean, this person has been wrong for months, now. And, you know, made up stuff that just doesn't come to pass. Robert Mueller was supposedly at the core working with Trump against, you know, Hillary Clinton and Hillary Clinton was going to get arrested. I mean, it's all just this fantasy. It's amazing to me how, also, it traffics in, you know, just anti-Semitic tropes, that have been around for centuries, anti-Catholic tropes as well. You know, the idea of this global cabal, the Rothschilds, and one -- one of the candidate -- congressional candidates has talked about Rothschilds, and Saudi Arabia and Soros and they are running this global cabal. I mean, it's insane.</s>ROOSE: Yes. It's a very unoriginal conspiracy theory in that it ties together basically every popular conspiracy of the past hundred years. And as you mentioned, this is not the Center for Missing Children. This -- the actual groups that actually do work on behalf of, you know, victims of child exploitation are begging QAnon believers to stop. They're sort of being inundated with false claims, with fake reports. Their hotlines are being overwhelmed. And they are saying we don't want your support. You are not in this, for the same reasons that we are.</s>COOPER: Yes. I mean, it -- it's -- it's extraordinary, though, that the president, who, you know, has retweeted QAnon followers' stuff dozens of times, and has been asked about QAnon before. If he wanted to, he obviously knows all about it. But the idea that he doesn't know anything, the idea that some aide of his would not take him aside and say, here's the deal with QAnon, as if he didn't know, because he's going to be asked about it. I mean, that would just be, like, political malpractice for him not to have been fully briefed on who these people are and what they want.</s>ROOSE: Yes. And interestingly, this seems to have changed in the last few months. I went to a Trump rally last year, where there were people at the door being turned away for having QAnon posters and signs. The Secret Service was not letting those people into the rally, presumably, because someone on the campaign was reluctant to have that appear on camera, was -- was sort of embarrassed and didn't want that to be associated with the campaign. Now, we see the president not just sort of declining to disavow them, but seeming to embrace QAnon. And so, it seems like this is being embraced as an opportunity for the president to keep a hyper-loyal, hyper-engaged group of supporters at his side. And it's not just the president. I mean, you don't see any Republicans, at all, denouncing QAnon. In part, I think because they are one of the -- one of the Republicans' most loyal and devoted and energetic fan bases.</s>COOPER: Yes. And you have written about this extensively and I appreciate it. Kevin Roose, good talking to you. Thank you.</s>ROOSE: Thanks for having me.</s>COOPER: With President Trump's campaign schedule showing no signs of slowing down, we're going to take a look at just how vulnerable are some of the people, without masks, at his rallies. We have CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta to check the data. His report, next.

U.S. Reaches 8 Million Covid-19 Cases, As The Pace Of New Infections Signals A Tough Winter

COOPER: You're looking at tonight's Trump rally in Macon, Georgia. His third one today has been pretty much on the road all week and his campaign aides say he even wants to do more. All before crowds were most not all are not wearing masks and breaking numbers now. Breaking news, I should say the number of use cases of coronavirus has topped 8 million so far. Today, Johns Hopkins University is reporting more than 61,000 new cases and nearly 800 deaths. Tomorrow as we reported the president scheduled to be at a rally in Janesville, Wisconsin State facing a surge in cases. All of which begs the question just how vulnerable are those supporters who chose not to wear masks at these rallies? Here's our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald J. Trump.</s>SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For President Trump's supporters, these rallies have come to represent a show of force against fear.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a 99.9 percent survival rate. And I am going to continue to live my life. I hope everybody else does too.</s>GUPTA (voice-over): For a lot of public health experts though, these rallies also have the elements of a contagion, few masks, lots of people closely clustered together for more than 15 minutes at a time. (on-camera): You can't see the virus but what is happening during a super spreading event.</s>ERIN BROMAGE, BIOLOGY PROFESSOR, UNIV. OF MASSACHUSETTS: You know, it's a very rough analogy. But if we think of a campfire, and you've got just a gentle breeze that night, not everybody's sitting around that campfire is equal in regards to the amount of virus or smoke that they're actually getting into their face.</s>GUPTA (voice-over): It is true that outdoors can be up to 20 to 30 times safer than indoors, the virus just more likely to disperse into the air, but it is still not completely safe. Again, think of that campfire smoke, it drifts and lingers and then travels wherever the wind may carry it. But here's the problem, definitively linking a gathering like this, or this to a later spike in new infections can be challenging, especially with 50,000 people becoming infected every day. So, to better understand the impact, CNN took a look at data from large rally several weeks ago to see what happened to a relevant and related measure of the viruses damage. Hospitalizations. Now as you watch this, remember, after someone is exposed, it typically takes about four weeks before they might become sick enough to require hospitalization. June 20th, Tulsa Oklahoma an indoor rally. Here was the situation going into that weekend in Tulsa. On that particular day, there were 197 hospitalizations in the state. On July 8th, two and a half weeks later, the Tulsa Department of Health held the press conference.</s>BRUCE DART, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TULSA HEALTH DEPARTMENT: A few days we've had almost 500 cases and we knew we had we had several large events over a little over two weeks ago, which is about right. So, I guess we just connect the dots.</s>GUPTA (voice-over): And then five weeks after the rally, the number of hospitalizations is at 625 more than triple what it was on June 20th. June 23rd, Phoenix, Arizona. Just days after that stop in Tulsa, President Trump held another indoor event, this time Phoenix. When he visited around 2,000 people were being hospitalized daily in Arizona, though the number was already rising, fast forward 10 days and that number shoots up to more than 3,000 cases daily, and that's maintained over the next three weeks. August 17th, Oshkosh, Wisconsin, take a look at what happened after the President visited Oshkosh on August 17th. This time outside, five weeks later, the number of hospitalizations rising by nearly 20 percent and continues its upward climb. Now, as far as the recent rallies go, Florida, Pennsylvania and Iowa. Well, they've all been within the last few weeks. So we may not have seen the impact on hospitalizations as of yet.</s>BROMAGE: There's no doubt that there has been transmission at the protests, the political rallies, it's just the fact that the virus doesn't discriminate it will find a new host in a crowd that's there. If you're gathering together in a large group of people, there has almost certainly been transmission. It is impossible, very difficult to visualize that transmission or document that transmission when there is so many people attending these events, and then they scatter it back out into the communities.</s>GUPTA (voice-over): On Saturday, the President's heading to Janesville, Wisconsin, but an hour away from where this 530 bed field hospital was erected earlier this week, a foreshadowing of what may be to come.</s>COOPER: And Sanjay joins me now I also want to bring Dr. Chris Murray, the Director of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, the University of Washington, his institute's computer modeling has often been cited and has been a mainstay of our broadcast helping explain what may lie ahead. Sanjay, considering how many rallies and events they're like this. Why haven't we heard of more cases then connected to them?</s>GUPTA: Well, it's just very hard to do the contact tracing here, Anderson. As you know, I mean, we've talked about this, you get 50,000 newly infected diagnose people in any given day, I mean, it's an entire sector of society really, to do that much contact tracing, people may not want to participate. It's just very challenging. And, you know, I don't think we're giving it a lot of focus in this country, in part because of those numbers. To give you some context, in New Zealand, the contact tracing there is so sophisticated. There was a report recently one of the medical journals about the fact that they were able to contact trace people getting infected from a particular garbage can lid, they are actually showing this garbage can lid as a potential source of infection. They are using CCTV cameras, tracing people's whereabouts, and coming to that sort of conclusion. That's how sophisticated you can get we're obviously nowhere close to that here. Anderson.</s>COOPER: Dr. Murray, an indoor event to protect seniors in Fort Myers, Florida today, the President said that we are, quote, rounding the turn and will be soon ending the pandemic. Can you just talk about what your most recent model finds in terms of deaths in the U.S. is -- I mean, are we rounding a turn?</s>CHRISTOPHER MURRAY, DIRECTOR, IHME UNIV. OF WASHINGTON: No Anderson, we're not running the turn. If you look at the map in the U.S., what's happening is exactly what we expected as the whole northern half of the U.S. transmission is on the upswing. You look across all the northern countries in Europe, they're already well into the fall winter surge. And that's what's heading our way. We expect that the death toll unfortunately, unless we change our behavior is going to reach 390,000 deaths by February 1st.</s>COOPER: That's almost double what it is now.</s>MURRAY: Absolutely. Yes. Well, it's not over. The worst is still the common unfortunately.</s>COOPER: I mean, that's extraordinary that in from between now and February 1st as another, almost 200,000 people according the model will die.</s>MURRAY: Absolutely. And we're going to, you know, see these upticks just, you know, gradually get or steadily get worse and worse, as we roll into November and December. And I think it's at that point, that it's not just people are going to die. But many states are going to have to put back on some of those mandates if they want to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed. And then there's all the economic hit that comes with that as well.</s>COOPER: And just to be clear, because you and I've talked about this before, if right now, I think you said around 45 percent of the country wears mask regularly. If 95 percent of the country wore masks regularly, the number of deaths could be cut by some 40,000. If I'm not wrong, is that correct still?</s>MURRAY: No. The number of deaths could be cut quite a bit more. It's more in our latest estimates from this week. We could cut deaths between now and February 1st by increased mask use by 74,000. So it's a really big dumbbell.</s>COOPER: Wow.</s>MURRAY: And, you know, that the future is not cast in stone. It's really in our control in terms of whether we're careful and wear a mask.</s>COOPER: Right.</s>MURRAY: What's going to happen in each state.</s>COOPER: And Sanjay to the point that Dr. Murray also just made, which is I think, is really important to talk about. If people were wearing masks now and distancing, then the shutdowns that Dr. Murray says, are probably inevitable in some states, because of the numbers will rise so much. Those shutdowns could actually -- might not take place if more people wore masks now, so that wouldn't reach the levels of deaths that we're talking about.</s>GUPTA: That's right. I mean, you know, if you even if you look at the CDC model, and sort of, you know, dive deeper into those numbers, wearing masks, the physical distancing, that the hand hygiene, all the things that we've been talking about, you could start to see the bending of the curve. I mean, it varies when I looked at those models in terms of how long that would take. But yes, I mean, if there was sort of widely adopted, you know, sort of application of those basic models, five weeks or so I think he could really start to see the curve start to flatten and then bend downward.</s>COOPER: Sanjay I know you of course --</s>GUPTA: I'm curious as well, if I can ask for a second. Yes, you know, Dr. Murray, so I look at these numbers very carefully. And so, the last model is you mentioned 390,000, people projected sadly to die by February 1st, it's actually down a little bit 6,000 I think, from what you had projected -- of what the model had projected earlier. And yet, we know the virus is likely to spread more during this period as well, according to the model. So, more spread and yet the death rate came down a little bit. And I'm just curious. Well, I know it's a small amount of change. But why would that be?</s>MURRAY: Well, it's mostly California. And what's happening in California is that deaths have been coming down really pretty steadily. And even though cases are now slowing, and are actually sort of flattening out in California, we're still seeing deaths come down faster than we sort of expected to see. So that change in our numbers is really driven by California. And the uptick all across the northern states is sort of exactly as we predicted. So, no, no change there.</s>COOPER: Dr. Chris Murray, appreciate it. Sanjay, as well. Thank you so much. Still to come, the ratings are in for last night's dueling town halls, we'll talk about who came out on top of that and how the different approaches by the two candidates may have played out with voters.

Hundreds Of Thousands More Watch Biden Townhall Than Trump's

COOPER: For a president who cares an awful lot about ratings and the size of his campaign events. This one may hurt. The average viewership for Joe Biden's town hall in ABC last night was about 4.1 million. For President Trump's Town Hall. 13.5 million. That number is the sum total viewers who watch Trump on NBC, MSNBC and CNBC. Now, we'll be the first to point out that TV ratings are generally not a proxy for votes or polls. And I'll say it again, TV ratings are not a proxy for votes or polls. But it's fair to point out these numbers come after widely pan first debate for the president, an undisciplined campaign full of conspiracy theories. And a president who hasn't really articulated what his second term agenda would be, and real questions about the viability of the President's campaign and its effect on down ballot candidates. Perspective now from two former White House advisers, David Axelrod, former senior adviser to President Obama and a CNN senior political commentator. And David Gergen, former advisor to presidents Nixon, for Reagan and Clinton, and a CNN senior political analyst. David Axelrod, do you think -- I mean, does anything? Can you extrapolate anything from the fact that more people tuned in to watch Vice President Biden than President Trump? I mean, it was on three different networks for NBC. I don't know if that would have made a difference.</s>DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, no, look, I was sort of shocked by that number. Because, you know, the one thing that I assumed was that even if people didn't like Trump, it's like a gators block. You know, they want to show up to see what exactly happens. And I think, you know, Anderson, the person who does assign greater importance to this is Donald Trump. How many times has he tweeted over the years about ratings, he judges everything by rating system must have been a terrible blow. But honestly, given what happened last night, he may be better off if fewer people have had watched it because he just doubled down on crazy. You know, the virus is we're turning the corner on the virus. You just heard from the experts that we're not turning the corner on the virus, you know, the conspiracy theories, QAnon defending this retweet of a conspiracy theory that the Navy Seals were killed, who were allegedly involved in this Bin Laden raid, because the Bin Laden raid was fake. I mean, this is the President of the United States. And these are the kinds of things that have placed him in the hole he's in. There are 18 days left, and he didn't do anything last night to change the dynamic.</s>COOPER: David Gergen, I mean if you were someone at home last night, flipping back and forth between the two town halls, essentially, you're going back and forth between two different worlds.</s>DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely. The irony, Anderson is that Trump reportedly believed that if he went head to head town hall to town hall at the same hour, he would come out so far had vastly had that he could humiliate Biden. And just the opposite occurred, humiliate Trump. And there's something I think there's something larger going on. We haven't quite figured out yet. But after a period of time, we wish Republicans seem to be doing better than Democrats approaching this election. They got more people registered than to Democrats and in the intervening years. But now the Democrats are coming on very strong. We've had this avalanche of people went out to vote early. Plus, the kind of -- the people are now coming out, almost as if they're retching. They're so angry with it like John Kelly, you know, saying he was the most flawed human being he'd ever met. And Rudy Giuliani's daughter who's on tonight along with John Kelly. And with all of that going on, there is something going on in the electorate that we haven't quite captured yet. But there is no question there is an enthusiasm and anger, desire to get to get this done with. And get this out and get this problem behind us and it's really, really interesting to watch.</s>COOPER: David Axelrod, do you agree that there's something going on out there? I mean, is that -- you know, I always question whether there's danger of Democrats looking at national polls and getting complacent thinking, oh, well, you know, there's 10 points ahead nationally, or whatever it may be.</s>AXELROD: Well, look, there's always that danger. But, you know, what we've been seeing this, from the day after the inauguration when all those women took to the streets to protest. And what you saw on the streets that day was not anger so much as resolved. And that played out in the 2018 midterm elections when there was a really enormous turnout. It's the thing that tilted the House of Representatives, back to the Democrats. I think that has continued and we're seeing it in the early voting patterns. Sure, I think it would be wise for Democrats to be vigilant. There are those registration numbers that that David mentioned. But 10 points is a substantial margin, 18 days before the election. Hillary Clinton, two weeks out, had an average lead of 3.5 points nationally and she finished 2.5 points ahead. If Joe Biden were to win by 10 points nationally, he is more likely to achieve a electoral college landslide than anything else. I think one analysts -- one analytics pros may have been Nate Silver said 99 percent chance you win the electoral college if you win by more than seven points. So, there is a lot here. I mean there are plenty other things I could say to you that would point to a by victory. And on top of all of that, there's a huge spending disparity. I was looking at the television numbers today. And to the extent that there's anybody who hasn't made up their mind. You know, there's like -- Biden as like a four to one advantage in some of these key battleground states. So, all the indications are positive, but everybody has, you know, Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome from the last election. So, I imagine we're going to see a lot of anxiety between now and when these votes are counted, and there's going to be some worry about how they're counted.</s>COOPER: Yes. David Gergen, I think was in the beginning this week, you know, we were talking about the President holding these large campaign rallies, people aren't wearing masks, no social distancing, and going from state to state and you said, going from obscenity to obscenity. I've been thinking a lot about that. I thought it was very striking and disturbing, you know, reality. Is there -- the President was playing defense. I mean, is there any other way to explain why he's campaigning in Georgia today? Historically, red state he wanted by five points in 2016.</s>GERGEN: No, he said he's obviously panicked about him is falling out of his world. I think he's become much more erratic. But these rallies really are obscene. We are, as I said, staggering from one obscenity to the next as a people. This will end eventually. And right now, it's very tough for a lot of people. And I think increasingly, people think that we have a president who is emotionally as well as intellectually unhinged at the moment, and that causes a lot of anguish. You know, we don't know his health situation yet. They haven't been honest with us about it. But I think most of all, it's just so merely (ph), incomprehensible as well as merely, you know, merely accountable for people who are coming down with it because they come to his rallies, as we've seen now, the evidence is starting to come in from past rallies that how many people have gotten sick. And we the third wave, the third peak approaching? Yes, we've got to be going just the person will be talking to Chris Christie on a call. If he's rallies, talk to Chris Christie, go home and get do his real job, which that have been president and get the stimulus package passed. Then he would deserve some praise.</s>COOPER: Yes, I mean, David Axelrod -- yes, go ahead David.</s>AXELROD: I just want to make one point that because we talked a lot about what Trump did in his town hall. Biden was quite good in his, he was calm, he was detailed. He was confident he related well, to people and he inspired a sense of confidence and the Trump campaign put out a statement deriding him as Mr. Rogers. Well, you know, what, Mr. Rogers was pretty darn popular for a reason. And in contrast to Donald Trump, Mr. Rogers seems like quite a relief. So, I don't know if they even have a grasp on what is going on here. Or they wouldn't send out a statement like that.</s>COOPER: Yes. David Axelrod, David Gergen, thank you. Programming note, President Trump and Joe Biden are scheduled to face- off one final time before Election Day. Debate will air on CNN next Thursday night. Our special live coverage on that night will start at 7:00 p.m. Just ahead tonight, President Trump on the attack what he said just moments ago at his rally about NBC's Savannah Guthrie, the moderator of the town hall last night.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: -- Virginia, he was known for a mess. If you look at --

Coronavirus Cases Rise in Most U.S. States; A La Nina Forms in the Pacific; Thousands More Satellites are Headed for Space.

CARL AZUZ, CNN 10 ANCHOR: After a thorough analysis of weekdays compiled over decades of experience, our independent study has concluded that Fridays are awesome. I`m Carl Azuz. We`re happy to have you watching this Friday, October 16th. Like several nations in Europe we told you about earlier this week, many parts of the United States are seeing an increase in coronavirus cases. It`s not spreading evenly, as you can see on this map. The recorded number of new cases is increasing in states. It`s holding steady in states and dropping in three. In the coming days, the nation of India is expected to surpass America in total COVID infections. The Asian country`s cases are rising and its population is four times that of the U.S. But at this point, America has seen more positive tests than any other country. It`s recorded 7.9 million diagnoses since record-keeping began early this year and more than 217,000 deaths have been blamed on the disease in America. When you look at these numbers the death rate may appear higher than it really is. The reason being that as many as 40 percent of people who catch the virus have no symptoms and many of them may not get tested. There are also people who do have symptoms but think it`s just a cold and don`t get tested. Based on statistics that came out this summer, more than percent of people who catch coronavirus survive it though it is more deadly than the flu. Some American businesses and communities have strict laws in place, limiting public gatherings and requiring masks. In others, people can be seen in crowded areas without masks, getting back to business as usual. So the restrictions and the reactions to the disease are vastly different from place to place, but health officials say the threat of spreading the virus goes up as fall temperatures come down.</s>DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Why do we expect COVID-19 infections to increase in winter months? There are three major reasons. First, the virus that causes COVID-19 is a coronavirus and other coronaviruses spread more in winter months. That`s the seasonal variation we see for the common cold and for other respiratory viruses so we expect to see the same pattern with this novel coronavirus too. Second, in winter months, the air is less humid. Particles that carry the virus can linger in the air for longer. Also our nasal membranes are drier and more vulnerable to infection. Third, as the weather gets colder, people will spend more time indoors. We know that being outdoors versus indoors can reduce the risk of transmission for COVID-19 by 18 to 19 times. That`s because the particles that carry the virus get diffused by circulating air, when people are gathered indoors in tight spaces without good ventilation that increases the likelihood of spread. All of this is why we need to stay extra vigilant in the winter months. If you`re seeing friends and extended family, stay outdoors as much as you can. If you need to be indoors, keep the windows open. Check your ventilation and keep the air circulating, make sure everyone has a mask on if you`re outdoors and cannot maintain a six foot distance or anytime you`re indoors with people who are not in your immediate household.</s>AZUZ: Winter predictions are next. If you were to draw a horizontal line through the center of the United States, relatively warm and dry conditions are expected south of that line in the months ahead. Warmer temperatures are also expected in the U.S. Northeast. This prediction is according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or NOAA, and it`s making that forecast based on something called La Nina. This is a natural cooling of ocean surface temperatures in the Pacific. And CNN 10 contributor Tyler Mauldin explains how it forms.</s>TYLER MAULDIN, CNN 10 CONTRIBUTOR: Forecasters at the Climate Prediction Center, Carl, expect La Nina conditions to have a major impact on our winter weather here in the U.S. This year`s La Nina could be on the stronger side too. A La Nina watch is issued when a La Nina could soon form. Our watch however was recently upgraded to a La Nina advisory, meaning it`s here now and expected to continue. There`s an approximately percent chance this La Nina could continue right through the months of December, January and February. I would say those are pretty good odds, wouldn`t you? So let`s talk about what a La Nina is and how it impacts the world`s weather. Let`s start in the Pacific Ocean. This is where the action happens. During a La Nina, the trade winds which blow from east to west get a lot stronger. This affects both the ocean and the atmosphere. In the ocean, warm waters get pushed to the West Pacific due to the more intense wind, allowing cool water to bubble up to the surface of the East Central Pacific. In the air, the Walker circulation gets stronger which is the circulation of air rising over the warm waters and sinking back down over those cooler waters. The jet stream is reshaped as a result, changing our weather patterns. Its impacts are felt far and wide too not just in the U.S. but around the world. It`s to blame this year for more hurricanes in the Atlantic, flooding in Australia, you name it.</s>AZUZ (voice-over): Ten-second trivia: Which of these words comes from a Latin term meaning "track" or `rut"? Orbit, path, circulate or route? The answer here is orbit, which usually follows a curved track around something in space.</s>AZUZ: In addition to millions of pieces of space junk like used rocket stages, parts of spacecraft and old broken satellites, there are roughly 3,000 working satellites orbiting the Earth and more are about to join them as part of a single mission to give more people access to broadband internet. It`s called Starlink it`s being launched by the space flight company SpaceX, and it could add between 12,000 and 30,000 satellites to low earth orbit. Here`s CNN 10 contributor Chris James -- Chris.</s>CHRIS JAMES, CNN 10 CONTRIBUTOR: Hey, Carl, on the clearest of nights, I love looking up into the sky to see if I can spot a satellite or space object making its way across the dark horizon. But experts are raising the red flag about a growing problem that could change the future of space as we know it. The issue: space is getting too crowded. For decades, researchers have been worried that growing congestion in space could have devastating consequences. This theory is known as Kessler syndrome which says that if space traffic becomes too dense, one single collision between two objects could set off a catastrophic domino effect that would essentially turn the space around Earth into an extraterrestrial wasteland. By the way, this was the main plot line in that film "Gravity". Robert Beck, the CEO of a launch startup company called Rocket Lab, says that his company is having a very difficult time finding clear paths for rockets to launch new satellites due to the sheer number of objects in space right now, especially considering SpaceX`s rapidly growing Starlink constellation. SpaceX has said that they are determined to being responsible stewards of outer space and the company has equipped its Starlink satellites with the ability to automatically get out of the way just in case. There are oncoming objects. And once operational, the SpaceX system could make Internet access available to the billions of people around the world who don`t have it. As exciting as that prospect sounds, the odds of avoiding disaster only become slimmer with each new satellite launch, according to one expert who says that he`s optimistic that we can avoid Kessler syndrome so long as these companies agree to abide by certain rules and norms of behavior. Back to you, Carl.</s>AZUZ: One word, SquidBot. This is a project at the University of California San Diego. It`s a soft robot that can push itself through the water. It can also carry a camera to keep tabs on what`s happening under the waves. Soft robots can be less damaging to marine life than other robots, and while SquidBot is faster than other soft robots, its speed tops out at about half a mile per hour, real squids can squirt along at 24 miles per hour. Plus, it probably takes an awful lot of squid -- I mean quid -- to take a shot with SquidBot, that is unless you ink a special deal. I mean, paying full prices for suckers. Now, before you inverte-berate me, I`m going to go ahead and squid while I`m ahead. That`s enough squidding around, and we got a squid-daddle anyway. Shout out to Chapel School in So Paulo, Brazil. We received your request on our YouTube channel. I`m Carl Azuz. Have a great weekend from all of us here at CNN 10. END

Donald Trump And Joe Biden Face Tough Questions in Dueling Town Halls; Record Numbers of Early Voters Casting Ballots; Trump May Be Losing Support Among Older Voters; Rudy Giuliani's Daughter Supporting Biden; Trump and Biden Appear on Dueling Town Halls After Mixed Debate; Republican Senator Blasts President Trump; Biden Campaign Halts Kamala Harris's Travel After Staffers Test Positive for COVID

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to "CNN Newsroom." I'm John Vause. Ahead this hour, same night, same time, but quite possibly different planets, the dueling town halls just 18 days from the American election. Also ahead is this.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whenever he is caught in a lie, he blames it on somebody else. It is always somebody else. He's impossible.</s>VAUSE: The great disdain among seniors for President Trump. This once rock-solid base of republican support is now finding its way to Joe Biden. Also this hour, nations across Europe are bracing for new lockdowns as COVID cases continue to surge. We are live in Rome with the very latest. U.S. president and his Democratic rival were more than 2000 kilometers apart, on different networks and different cities, but they may as well have been in different universes. President Trump and Joe Biden were meant to have a virtual debate Thursday night. It was a precaution after Trump was diagnosed with the coronavirus. But he refused. So, voters had to flip between dueling town halls which were airing at the same time. Joe Biden answered questions about his policies, including how we deal with the coronavirus pandemic and how we protect black Americans from police violence and racial injustice. He also addressed the question about packing the Supreme Court. We will have more on that in a moment. President Trump's town hall was mostly antagonistic. He argued with the moderator about conspiracy theories, his tax returns, and how he has been dealing with the pandemic. One question he wouldn't or couldn't answer was about his own coronavirus tests.</s>SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, BROADCASTER: When did you last remember having a negative test?</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I test quite a bit. And I can tell you that before the debate, which I thought was a very good debate and I felt fantastically, I was -- I had no problem before. It was afterwards --</s>GUTHRIE: Did you test the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: I don't know. I don't even remember. I test all the time.</s>GUTHRIE: But debate commissions rules, it was the honor system --</s>TRUMP: Yeah.</s>GUTHRIE: -- that you would come with a negative test. You said you don't know if you got a test on the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: I had no problem. Again, the doctors do it. I don't ask them. I test all the time.</s>GUTHRIE: Did you take a test on the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: You can ask the doctor. They will give you a perfect answer.</s>GUTHRIE: Do you take a test every single day?</s>TRUMP: No, no, but I take a lot of tests.</s>GUTHRIE: OK. And you don't know if you took a test the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: Possibly I did, possibly I didn't.</s>VAUSE: Round and round and round it went. But, did President Trump's town hall offer any new information, any new insight, which could move that very small number of undecided voters? Well, according to CNN's Jim Acosta, not really. Here he is.</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Voters did not get a lot of straight answers from President Trump during the town hall that took the place of a presidential debate with Joe Biden. Given multiple opportunities to denounce the false conspiracy theory QAnon, the president evaded the question and simply would not say what he thought about the group. Here is more of what he had to say.</s>TRUMP: I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard. But I know nothing about it.</s>GUTHRIE: They believe it is a satanic cult run by the deep states.</s>TRUMP: If you like me to study the subject -- I tell you what I do know about. I know about Antifa, I know about the radical left, I know how violent they are and how vicious they are, and I know how they are burning cities run by Democrats, not run by Republicans.</s>GUTHRIE: Republican Senator Ben Sasse said -- quote -- "QAnon is nuts and real leaders call conspiracy theories conspiracy theories."</s>TRUMP: He may be right.</s>GUTHRIE: Why not just say it's crazy and not true?</s>TRUMP: Can I be honest: He may be right. I just don't know about QAnon.</s>GUTHRIE: You do know.</s>TRUMP: I don't know. No, I don't know.</s>ACOSTA: And the president also gave evasive answers on health care, abortion, even his own personal income taxes. But perhaps the biggest missed opportunity of the night for the voters was when the president would not say when his last negative coronavirus test was, leaving open the possibility that he walked into that last presidential debate with Joe Biden potentially symptomatic for COVID-19. Jim Acosta, CNN, Miami.</s>VAUSE: Now, to Philadelphia, where the Democratic nominee mingled with the audience long after the town hall was over. Here is CNN's Arlette Saenz with this report.</s>ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Over the course of a 90- minute town hall here in Philadelphia, Joe Biden faced a range of questions, from how to handle the coronavirus pandemic to the economy and even his support for the 1994 crime bill. This was a heavily policy-focused discussion, as he faced questions from a mix of undecided voters and people who have already made up their minds about supporting Biden or Trump. And one of the most noteworthy exchanges came during a discussion about the issue of court packing.</s>SAENZ: Joe Biden has deflected when asked about adding more justices to the Supreme Court for weeks now. He offered a bit more of a detailed answer in this town hall. Take a listen.</s>JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not a fan. I then say it depends on how this turns out. I am open to considering what happens from that point on.</s>GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: You said so many times during the campaign, all through the course of your career, it is important to level --</s>BIDEN: It is, but George, if I say -- no matter what answer I gave you, if I say it, that is the headline tomorrow. It won't be about what is going on now. The improper way they are proceeding.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: But don't voters have a right to know where you stand?</s>BIDEN: They do have a right to know where I stand. They have a right to know where I stand before they vote.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: So you will come out with a clear position before Election Day?</s>BIDEN: Yes.</s>SAENZ: So Biden there not completely ruling out the possibility of adding more justices to the Supreme Court, saying he wants to see how the nomination with Amy Coney Barrett moves forward and will give voters a bit more of an answer, closer to Election Day. Biden also criticized President Trump for his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. And he was asked about a coronavirus vaccine, whether it should be mandated. Biden said that there should be a discussion about making it mandatory, but acknowledged that there could be legal issues with actually implementing that. But overall, Biden stayed very policy-focused as he was presenting his agenda for a Biden ministration, offering a contrast to the president, without the president even being on that stage. On Friday, Joe Biden is heading to Michigan, where he will have two stops in that critical battleground state as early voting is underway and he is trying to get people to head out and vote. Back to you.</s>VAUSE: Michael Genovese is the president of the Global Policy Institute at Loyola Marymount University. He is live this hour in Los Angeles. Michael, great to have you with us. I'll get to these dueling town halls in a moment. But before that, Donald Trump had a rally in North Carolina. To the cheers of the crowd, he kind of declared the beginning of the end for this pandemic. Here it is.</s>TRUMP: My plan is already crushing the virus. Look at our numbers. Look at our numbers.</s>VAUSE: You know, by any measure, the numbers are awful. They speak</s>MICHAEL GENOVESE, PRESIDENT OF GLOBAL POLICY INSTITUTE, LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIVERSITY: Well, that is because, John, you're comparing industrialized nations and their response to the coronavirus. But the United States under Trump as far as the COVID virus is concerned is acting like a third world country, not an industrialized nation. We are doing almost everything that we shouldn't be doing. We should be having more restrictions. We should have a set policy by the federal government. We should have in place a program to facilitate the decline of the virus. We do not. We do not have a national policy. And so the president is just mumbling words that have really no meaning.</s>VAUSE: Yeah. That's what happened a little bit too during these town halls. It was Donald Trump, you know, in Miami, on NBC, arguing with the moderator, making false claims about face masks and a whole lot else. Listen to this.</s>TRUMP: I'm good with masks. I'm OK with masks. I tell people to wear masks. But just the other day, they came out with a statement that 85 percent of the people that wear masks catch it. So, you know, this is a very --</s>GUTHRIE: They didn't say that. I know that study --</s>TRUMP: That's what I heard, and that's what I saw.</s>VAUSE: Yeah, well, you heard wrong, because it's not true. Joe Biden on ABC was calm yesterday. He spent a lot of time after town hall talking with the audience. And there was this concession he made on the question about packing the Supreme Court. Here he is.</s>BIDEN: I'm not a fan. I then say it depends on how this turns out, not how he winds, but how it is handled.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: But don't voters have a right to know where you stand?</s>BIDEN: They do have a right to know where I stand. They have a right to know where I stand before they vote.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: So you will come out with a clear position before Election Day?</s>BIDEN: Yes, depending on how they handle this.</s>VAUSE: If Biden has been laser-focused on avoiding gaps and controversy, he seemed to continue during the town hall, and that was a pretty smart move by Biden who had been criticized for not taking a stance on this issue.</s>GENOVESE: Yeah. I think Joe Biden is misplaying his hand on this. We do have a right to know his position and, as he said, you will hear it before Election Day. Well, people are already voting. There are millions and millions of people who have already voted. How long should they wait? So I think, in this case, Biden is opening himself up for criticism because he has mishandled his response to the question of court packing.</s>VAUSE: Is he being smart?</s>GENOVESE: I think when you have to keep trying to answer the same question in different ways, there is a problem. He has not been able to pull it off. He's not glib enough. That may be a compliment to his character.</s>GENOVESE: Donald Trump could pull this off. Biden just can't.</s>VAUSE: All right. During this town hall, Donald Trump, would describe it as a profile encouragement moment, actually taking a strong stance against white supremacy. Here he is.</s>TRUMP: I denounce white supremacy.</s>GUTHRIE: OK.</s>TRUMP: And frankly, you want to know something? I denounce Antifa and I denounce these people on the left that are burning down our cities that are run by Democrats.</s>VAUSE: There is always "but." It's great that he's sort of trying to quote the non-bigot (ph) vote, but then there's also this false equivalency when he goes on about the threat posed by these left-wing groups.</s>GENOVESE: And that is because Donald Trump has these talking points that he wants to hit. You know, he has his phobias. He has these people that he hates. He reaches out, clings to them, even when it is not an appropriate answer. Donald Trump has not been clear. He has not been forthcoming. He has been going all over the waterfront. The moderator tried to give him opportunities to clarify, and he simply went back to the old talking points, attacking the left, attacking democratic cities, attacking Antifa, and avoiding the real question at hand.</s>VAUSE: Yeah. The past four years, there's been such a little criticism, at least publicly, about the president coming from Republicans in Congress. But here is the senator from Nebraska, talking about Trump on the phone with constituents on Wednesday. Listen to this.</s>SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE) (voice-over): He mocks evangelicals behind closed doors. His family has treated the presidency like a business opportunity. He's flirted with white supremacists. I mean, the places where we differed on COVID, he -- at the beginning of the COVID crisis, he refused to treat it seriously for months. He treated it like a news cycle by news cycle PR crisis rather than a multi-year public health challenge which is what it is.</s>VAUSE: That is just a fraction of what Ben Sasse had to say. Is it a case now the Republicans are staring down the possibility, this down- ticket massacre that some have found something of a backbone, but earning enough to criticize Trump in a private phone call, not to go to the public with this?</s>GENOVESE: Well, it did go public, and the words were powerful and full of condemnation of the president by someone who is very prominent in his own party. The problem is they are just words, powerful words of condemnation but just words. Where is the action to back them up? Where is the pushback? For four years now, Republican senators and Senator Sasse have been basically just bending over for Donald Trump. Four years of phony enablers. Yes, cheerleader. Yes, cheerleader. The party has been spineless. They're full of particulars that Senator Sasse laid out. It was utterly devastating. Even if it came from Democrats, it would be devastating. Coming from a Republican, it was worse. Kisses dictators' butts, flirted with white supremacists, sells out allies, his handling of COVID was irresponsible, the way he treats women, he spends like a drunken sailor, mocks evangelicals behind their back, and uses the presidency for business opportunities. It was incredibly powerful. But if those words meant anything, to Senator Sasse and to Republicans, they would have pushed back. They were aiding and abetting Donald Trump, not fighting him on these.</s>VAUSE: How much of an indictment is this on Ben Sasse? He obviously believes the stuff and it is pretty grim. But he allowed it to happen. I mean, this is your point, no action. I mean, who comes out of this worse, Trump or Sasse?</s>GENOVESE: I'm not sure why, but Republicans are scared to death of Donald Trump. He doesn't seem very frightening. He seems like a paper tiger. And so what is he going to do? Is he going to primary you? Maybe. But, really, if you have these strong believes and you're a man or woman of principle, and Sasse's words today were principled words, you need to act on them. If they are just words, they are nothing. They have no meaning. You have to get beyond the words and get to the action. Republicans have failed the country miserably.</s>VAUSE: Right. And coming in 18 days before the election to the timing is rather unfortunate. Michael, thank you. Michael Genovese is in Los Angeles. Appreciate you being with us, Michael.</s>GENOVESE: Thank you, John.</s>VAUSE: Well, as I say, just 18 days away from the election, Kamala Harris, Biden's running mate, has been grounded for at least a few days after two people working close to the campaign were diagnosed with the coronavirus. President Trump is striking out of the Biden campaign, saying it proves the coronavirus hit them, even as they use precautions like masks. Harris tells CNN's Don Lemon what she thinks about that comment from Donald Trump.</s>SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA): He is just incorrect. And the reality of it is that, first of all, his approach to this issue is something the American public are suffering from.</s>HARRIS: For example, what we did is we have been -- we have had -- and he mocked Joe Biden in their debate about wearing masks and protocols that say that we understand, love their neighbor, wear your mask. We have had protocols that have been about saying that we need to have social distancing. We are not going to bring large crowds together because we don't want people to get sick as they exercise their rights in our democracy. On the other hand, you have Donald Trump who has overlooked all of that when he had information since January about how serious this was, and he did not tell the American people.</s>DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You have tested negative, right? You been tested?</s>HARRIS: Yes, many times.</s>LEMON: Many times, OK.</s>HARRIS: I was last exposed to the folks you mentioned seven days ago, I've had multiple tests since.</s>LEMON: OK.</s>HARRIS: I've come up negative. They are all doing well, I'm happy to say. And --</s>LEMON: OK.</s>HARRIS: -- yeah, and this is where we are.</s>VAUSE: This is where we are. We will come back in a moment. And when we do, the coronavirus once again spreading like wildfire across the U.S. and that is putting incredible pressure on hospitals across the nation. Also, a second wave is crashing across Europe. Cases in Germany and France are hitting levels never seen before during this pandemic. We will hear from our reporters spread out across the region.

The United States is Struggling to Curb COVID-19; WHO: About 80 Percent of European Nations are Seeing COVID Cases Rise; A New Necklace Reminds Wearers to Social Distance; Tokyo Theme Park Opens Its Doors to Remote Workers.

VAUSE: Welcome back. By any measure, the United States is failing to contain the pandemic with devastating consequences. Almost eight million are infected and more than 200,000 dead and counting. Now, an influential model predicts there could be more than 390,000 virus deaths in the U.S. by February. That is slightly lower than previous forecasts. But the harsh reality is that in just over three months, another 172,000 Americans will most likely be dead. CNN's Nick Watt has our report.</s>RICARDO AGUIRRE, LOST BUSINESS AND SEVERAL FAMILY MEMBERS TO COVID-19: I feel very incompetent.</s>NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This virus destroyed Ricardo Aguirre's business. It killed eight family members, including his father.</s>AGUIRRE: We did everything together.</s>WATT (voice-over): And nearly 60,000 new COVID-19 infections across America yesterday, highest tally in a couple of months.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is now unconscionable, this late into the outbreak.</s>WATT (voice-over): The Atlanta Falcons won't practice today after a positive test, and perhaps the biggest name in college sports is now COVID positive.</s>NICK SABAN, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA HEAD FOOTBALL COACH: I'm still fine. I feel fine. I was very surprised by this. WATT (voice-over): These are the nationwide daily case counts. Bad in the spring, worse in the summer, rising again, and rising fast, a call to arms in NYC, our one-time epicenter.</s>MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY, NEW YORK: Simple as this crucial week.</s>DE BLASIO: This is the week to stop the second wave.</s>WATT (voice-over): This week, 21 states logged their highest average daily case counts ever.</s>GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): We've got get these numbers down. And if this trend continues, our hospital capacity will be in jeopardy.</s>WATT (voice-over): In just a week, the number of COVID patients in the hospitals in Indiana jumped 25 percent, in Ohio, 28 percent, in Delaware, 30 percent, in Minnesota, 32 percent, in Wisconsin, more COVID-19 patients in the hospital now than ever.</s>ASHOK RAI, PRESIDENT AND CEO, PREVEA HEALTH: If there is a major car accident today in Green Bay, between all of the hospitals, we wouldn't be able to take care of it.</s>WATT (voice-over): But advisers to our president reportedly promoting herd immunity AKA let it rip.</s>ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I think that we just got to that square in the eye and say it is nonsense.</s>MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, WHO HEALTH EMERGENCIES PROGRAM: It leads to unnecessary cases and at least to unnecessary deaths.</s>WATT (voice-over): What might have been? New Zealand, a small island nation, granted, but 25 deaths total. Why? Quick action, real border closures, and nationwide lockdown, strong test and trace, this, according to a new study, in the Lancet. Here, cases are rising, temperatures are falling. Some say the first wave never ended. Here comes the second. So, Thanksgiving?</s>FAUCI: You may have to bite the bullet and sacrifice that social gathering.</s>WATT (on camera): Before the Thanksgiving holiday here in the U.S., of course, it is Halloween. Beverly Hills is now one of the first cities in the country to ban trick or treating. They say they will not be out there hunting for kids wearing costumes. But if you are caught trick or treating or caught giving candy to a stranger, you may get a 100 dollar fine. Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.</s>VAUSE: Just a short time ago, Germany reported another record for daily coronavirus infections, part of a second wave of the pandemic, showing no signs of letting up. The cases are on the rise in roughly 80 percent of all European countries. That is what Maria Van Kerkhove, a top infectious disease expert at the World Health Organization, told CNN.</s>KERKHOVE: We are certainly seeing a very concerning situation across Europe. We are seeing resurgence. We are seeing an increase in transmission in large numbers of countries across the region. In fact, about 80 percent of countries across the European regions are seeing a growth right now.</s>VAUSE: We have CNN correspondents covering this from across the region. Ben Wedeman is in Rome, Phil Black is in London, and we will start with Melissa Bell reporting in from Paris.</s>MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Here in France, a system of curfews announced by the French president in order to try and tackle the country's soaring COVID-19 figures. Again, tonight, another record was set in terms of the number of new cases announced for a single 24- hour period. That is something that we have seen over the course of the last week. Several times, records are broken, and of course, that will have an incidence on the strain on ICUs. The French president explained last night on television that the second wave threatened to be even worse than had been the first because the virus was now so spread out across France and because there were now no spare beds. The question now of whether that will be enough, of course, poses itself from Saturday. It is also a state of emergency that France enters with more restrictions possible then if the numbers don't improve. Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tough new restrictions on personal lives are set to kick in here in London. From Saturday morning, it will be illegal for people from different households to spend time together indoors. So, no hanging out in homes, bars, restaurants, cafes, making it harder to maintain and draw support from important relationships. It will still be possible to socialize outdoors in groups of up to six, but that will become less practical as the winter deepens. London's</s>VAUSE: Live now, CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman in Rome. Ben, first time round, we saw it was northern part of Italy which is getting hammered by the virus. Now, this time, it seems like the south are seeing their numbers spike. Do we know why?</s>BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not really. I mean, as you've said, the largest number of positive active cases at the moment is still in Lombardy where Milan is located.</s>WEDEMAN: But Campania where Naples is, seen as basically the second highest number among the regions in Italy. It was largely spared earlier in the year, but what we are seeing now is that the number of cases there is growing dramatically. And as a result, the governor of that region has declared that, as of today, schools will be closed, universities, restaurants must close at 9 p.m. All parties, religious and civic gatherings are now prohibited across the board. And this is a part of the country where the health system isn't anywhere near as good as that in the north. And the poverty levels are much higher. Plus, you have the highest population densities in Italy. So, the expectation is that this could become Southern Italy, particularly Campania could become the epicenter of the outbreak, this time exceeding what happened in Northern Italy. John?</s>VAUSE: Ben, thank you for the update. Ben Wedeman there for us live in Rome. Queen Elizabeth is back in the public eye for the first time since the coronavirus forced the U.K. into a lockdown back in March. She visited a military research facility. Prince William was there. Neither was seen wearing a mask. The royal official say the decision was made after a consultation with the queen's doctors and scientists at that facility. A robotics company in the United Kingdom has developed the latest coronavirus fashion, a necklace called "Bump." The new device reminds those who wear it to socially distance in accordance with scientific guidelines. "Bump" is worn around the neck and display warranty signals. When you are at safe two meters or more from another person wearing the necklace, it lights up blue. If one meter or closer, though, the device lights up red. It has a loud beep to alert wearers they aren't properly socially distanced. It is kind of annoying.</s>HUGH BRASHER, LONDON MARATHON RACE DIRECTOR: I think that this technology can be used in business, really for companies trying to come back to the office. So many conversations are going on about how do you ensure someone safety. Health and safety are so important these days.</s>VAUSE: Probably a good idea. Well, a Tokyo theme park is offering remote workers a change of scene. Here at the Yomiuriland, visitors can take a break from the confines of the home office. For about $18, they can pick up mobile Wi-Fi hotspot and work in the fresh air. It also includes a spin on the park's Ferris wheel. One remote worker says it is a very much welcome change.</s>TATSUKI YAMAMOTO, REMOTE WORKER (through translator): It's different from how I usually work, so it's refreshing, and I feel great because it's outdoors.</s>VAUSE: It's a way for the theme park to bring in some extra cash as it feels the pinch of the coronavirus pandemic. Coming up on "CNN Newsroom," with millions of early voters casting ballots, President Trump asked, yet again, will you accept the results of the election? What did he say? We will tell you in a moment. Plus this --</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a time I didn't like him at all. I loved him.</s>VAUSE: Older Americans switching their loyalty from Trump to Biden. We tell you why in just a moment.

Protests Continue in Thailand Amid Government Crackdown

VAUSE: Thailand's Prime Minister says he will not resign, despite huge pro-democracy protests. Thousands gathered for a second straight night, defying a government ban on public gatherings. Police have arrested more than 50 people so far. Jonathan miller, from UK's Channel 4 News has more now reporting from Bangkok.</s>JONATHAN MILLER, FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, CHANNEL 4 NEWS: 4 a.m., and anyone still up and watching state TV saw this, proclamation of another emergency decree from Thailand's military backed regime. 30 minutes later, the riot police move in to end the protest outside government HQ. Peace and order have to be restored, the decree had stated. Gatherings of more than 5 were banned, as well as any reporting deemed to threaten national security. Police cleared the site, arresting two protest leaders, both strident anti-monarchists, including a lawyer Anon Nampa, already facing charges of sedition. The protesters who obstructed the royal motorcade on Wednesday afternoon with Queen Suthida and a Prince on board were cited as a pretext for the emergency decree. Three police generals were summarily removed from their posts. 8 a.m. and Rung Panusaya, the student leader who had led demands for royal reform went live on Facebook to call a fresh protest at 4 p.m. in Central Bangkok. Half an hour later, she too was arrested. Down with feudalism, she shouts, long live the people. Here, the monarchy is protected by the strictest royal anti defamation laws in the world. It is only 3.30, and already a defiant few have risked arrest, chanting expletives at their Prime Minister. The local police chief's in a bind. This is an unlawful gathering, he declared, to no avail. Emboldened by this show of rebellion, more and more thronged in. Pam (ph), a teenager insisting that we show her face said, I am risking being here to claim back our democracy. We asked her, wasn't she scared of being arrested? No, she said, I've moved beyond that, I'm more afraid of being a slave for the rest of my life. Well, if you thought an emergency decree and the threat of unrest and jail would put people off, not a bit of it. Look at this, we are in a major intersection, in the heart of commercial Bangkok. They blocked off the road, and police don't know what to do at the moment. They are under orders to arrest, but look what they are up against. And from the regime, no offers of negotiation, no compromise. The numbers at the Ratchaprasong Intersection just continued to swell. The young protesters sense cracks in the edifice of monarchy and military, and they have lost their sense of fear.</s>VAUSE: And our thanks to Jonathan Miller from Channel 4 News for that report from Bangkok. And thank you for watching CNN Newsroom. I'm John Vause, stay with us, World Sport is next with Patrick Snell.

Tennis players Accused of Fleeing Russia After Diagnosis

PATRICK SNELL, SPORT ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT, CNN INTERNATIONAL: Hi there, welcome to CNN World Sport today, what it must be like to be a fan of the Tampa Bay Rays right now. For the last two nights, a place in Major League Baseball's coveted World Series has been in their sights, but it seems nobody told their opponents, the Houston Astros. The Rays seemingly have the best of 7, American League Championship Series in the bag at 3-nothing up, and in front of no fans. Tampa's neutral venue in San Diego, they have been pegged (ph) back George Springer with a home run for Houston, as we near the business end of this covid-19 impacted campaign. Stepping up to the plate literally now, the Ray's South Korean star, Ji-Man Choi, tying it all up in the 8th 3 apiece, at this point as the tension and the drama would mount. Check this out, Puerto Rican star Carlos Correa belting the walk-off home run almost out of sight here. The Astros still alive; they win it 4-3 in Game 5. The Rays have now lost two on the bounce, but they still lead the series 3-2, ahead of Game 6. Later on Friday, what a night for that man Correa.</s>CARLOS CORREA, BASEBALL SHORTSTOP, HOUSTON ASTROS: Yes, I knew off the bat, the ball is going well out (ph) there during day time. So as soon as I hit, I knew it was gone. I thought two-way, I was going to end it and I thought (inaudible) I was going to end this. So, to all to do it, it's a different, a whole different story.</s>DUSTY BAKER, HOUSTON ASTROS MANAGER: He told me that he was going to walk-off. And I was like, yes. And he just said I told you. And I was like, hey man, keep telling me.</s>SNELL: Well, the Astros attempting to do something, only one team has ever done before when trailing 3-0 and then coming back to win the series. That team, the Boston Red Sox back in 2004, when they went on to win the World Series ending an 86-year drought in the process and breaking the so-called Curse of the Bambino for selling the legendary Babe Ruth to the Yankees in 1919. Well, you have to go back to 1995 for the last time the Braves won the World Series, but we can tell you first time from living here, the Atlanta fans may just be daring to dream once more from Southern California to Arlington, Texas where 11,000 fans allowed. In fact, the Braves last reached the World Series in 1999 and at least another appearance there now in their side (ph) after they rout the LA Dodgers here in Game 4. We'll say though, it was tight and it was tense. So won a piece (ph) in the sixth inning but that's just when the Braves powered ahead. Freddie Freeman with the go-ahead hit there; Marcell Ozuna, the Dominican Republic star homering twice on this night. A total of six runs in the sixth, for Atlanta, 10-2 wins, they are 3-1 up now in the series and just one victory away from the full classic. Alright, let's reset now and head to Europe where the English Football League has rejected the Premier League's proposed $65 million COVID-19 rescue package. Here's for the three-tiers actually below the top flight, saying the conditional offer put forward falls some way short. It comes after controversial plans to reduce the amount of clubs in the EPL were rejected. Meantime, after the international break, the Premier League returning and some intriguing story lines. First up on Saturday, well, it should be a pulsating Merseyside derby seeing table-topping Everton take on fierce local rivals and reigning champs Liverpool remember were thumped 7-2 by Aston Villa last time out. Later in the day, Man United travelling to New Castle after the Red Devils recent thrashing at the hands of Tottenham. Much scrutiny right now on United skipper Harry Maguire after recent poor form and his midweek sending off while on England duty. And I'm wondering will we finally get to see the Gareth Bale derby for Spurs or rather his second derby for the club? Tottenham hosting West Ham Sunday. Alright to Germany now where in recent months, we've seen a number of the country's smaller clubs giving away hosting rights. This incup (ph) competition is due to homestays in coronavirus climate (ph) and/or I will say the cost involved of actually trying to especially equip a staging for TV, all off this remember without fans and without income. There are 142 places between European champions Bayern Munich and FC Duren, the nation's fifth year, the modern version of Duren, only formed just under three years ago. Actually, a 3-0 loss pretty respectable considering Bayern thumped Barcelona 8-2 recently the Champions League quarters, a couple of debut goals here for new signing Eric Maxim Choupo-Moting. There is a German Cup match Duren were meant to host, but the game ultimately moving to Munich. To the very latest now on the continuing impact we're seeing on athletes in the era of COVID-19, fair to say the spotlight on one American tennis star more intense than ever right now after a whole sequence of episodes playing out in an overseas event he was due to be competing in. CNN's Fred Pleitgen now taking up the story.</s>FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A bizarre string of events at a tennis tournament here in Russia as an American player went AWOL apparently after testing positive for COVID-19. Talking about U.S. Sam Querrey, who is of course very well-known for a very powerful first serve and for lots of aces. He was supposed to take part in a tournament in St. Petersburg in Russia. However, a day before the tournament was set to start, both he and his wife tested positive for COVID-19. The organizers say they then placed Querrey and his family in self isolation in a hotel, but when doctors wanted to see them, Querrey refused to open the door. They were supposed to get tested again on October 15th, however they weren't there anymore. Now, the surveillance cameras of hotel showed that in the early morning hours of October 13th, the family was seen leaving the hotel very early, and later, apparently, Querrey told the ATP that he had left Russia on a private plane. Now, CNN tried to reach out to Querrey's representatives. So far, we have not gotten an answer. The ATP says it is aware of the incident and is urging all players to abide by coronavirus protocols. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.</s>SNELL: Thanks to Fred there. Well, another powerful example of an athlete taking a stance against social injustice here in the U.S. Why for American golfer Kirk Triplett, the matter is deeply personal.

Golfer Shining Light on Social Justice Fight

SNELL: Welcome back to CNN World Sport. Here in the United States, we have seen a whole spate of athletes in recent months taking a stance against social injustice. For the American golfer Kirk Triplett, he has spelt it (ph) with a sticker. The three-time PGA Tour winner competed in this year's Senior Players Championship with a Black Lives Matter logo on his bag. You see for Triplett, this matter is deeply personal. He and wife Cathi are proud parents to four children, two of whom are adopted. Among them, his 18-year-old son Kobe is African-American. I recently spoke with Kirk about the stance he has been taking.</s>SNELL: And what was the reaction to it when that sticker was displayed? As you said, it got some attention. What kind of reaction did you get?</s>KIRK TRIPLETT, AMERICAN PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: For most of the part, I can say it is running (ph), at least 80 percent people are speaking out, saying very positive things. Thanks for standing up; thanks for saying something. We really appreciate your story. And I'm getting some of these anecdotal stories from people, both white and black, about experiences that they've had and the more of those kind of things that we hear and that we share, I think the better we all understand each other. So for me, overall, I've been kind of surprised and feel pretty good about the outreach here and the things that people have told me.</s>SNELL: And to those who seemingly don't get it, to the negative comments, what's your message to them?</s>TRIPLETT: I didn't do it to change people's minds. I didn't do it to make a big statement or a big point. I mean, like I said, I felt like it was a relatively safe thing for me to do because of my family situation. You know, I had just a very unique small sliver of understanding about maybe what some of the African-American community is going through. And I just wanted to tell them that, I hear your message, I understand what you're saying. And yes, there's social injustice out there and there's some stuff we've got to work on.</s>SNELL: What specific challenges do you feel he is facing as an 18- year-old in this current situation, moving forward?</s>TRIPLETT: I think he faces the same challenges any young African- American male faces, just sort of an uncertainty from the world around him, looking at him based on what he looks like. You know, if he's in the wrong place at the wrong time, what's going to happen? Is the situation going to escalate or is he going to have the ability to kind of manage it and control it and let it de-escalate a little bit? But, I guess my fear, or my - what bothers me - is why should that be his responsibility, right? Why should he be the one that has to make it slow down and make people react differently? That shouldn't be his responsibility, that should be the system's responsibility.</s>SNELL: What's the message you want to get out? If there's one message you can use this platform here and now, Kurt, what would it be?</s>TRIPLETT: I think first and foremost, my message is to the African American community that, here I am in a demographic that you think is not hearing what you're saying. And I'm hearing it, right, and I understand it, and I agree with you. Well now where do we go? Now, what do we do? Right. And there are more people like me. We just don't - most of them don't put stickers on their bags.</s>SNELL: The PGA Tour is pledging $100 million over the next 10 years towards racial and social injustice causes. What's your response to that, and do you feel golf is doing enough?</s>TRIPLETT: It's easy to just sort of earmark some money and hopefully make a difference, and the Tour's investigating ways to make sure that they do more than that. And I'm looking forward very much to sort of being a participant in those programs. We wanted to be more than put a sticker on your bag or throw money at a cause or - but we don't want to decide what to do with it, we want help and we want partnership, and we want the African American community to let us know what to do.</s>SNELL: And our thanks to Kirk for his time, powerful words indeed. Thank you for joining us today. Do join us for late Friday edition of World Sport team here in Atlanta. We'll see you again next time. Bye for now.

From Face-to-Face Debate to Town Halls; President Trump Always Ready with Excuses; Dueling Presidential Town Halls; Chalian, Trump Did Not Win Over New Voters At Town Hall; Comparing And Contrasting Dueling Town Halls.

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. presidential election is now less than three weeks away. But instead of a debate, voters got dueling town calls. We'll show you how they played out. Now this comes as millions of Americans cast their ballots early. We look at the potential impact on the race. Plus, COVID cases climb around the world. We'll tell you about one part of America getting hit hard, and the new restrictions facing certain European countries. Live from CNN world headquarters in Atlanta, welcome to you, our viewers here in the United States, Canada, and around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. And this is CNN Newsroom. Well on the night when Joe Biden and Donald Trump were supposed to share the same stage for their second debate, the two presidential candidates instead held competing town halls on rival television networks. At the same time you'll see the sharp contrast between them for yourself in just a moment. For Biden, the format was familiar territory, to talk policy, although at times he avoided straight answers. When the event was over, he stayed to talk with voters off camera. Now, a wide contrast, the president while he was much more combative, Trump's responses to pointed questions about the pandemic, white supremacy, conspiracy theories and other issues were largely defensive and peppered with falsehoods. Voters were hoping to find out what President Trump plans to do if he wins a second term, he didn't exactly give them a clear answer. We get more from CNN's Jim Acosta in Miami.</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The voters did not get a lot of straight answers from President Trump during that town hall that took the place of a presidential debate with Joe Biden. Given multiple opportunities to denounce the false conspiracy theory QAnon, the president evaded the question and simply would not say what he thought about the group. Here's more of what he had to say.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard. But I know nothing about it.</s>SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, CO-ANCHOR, NBC NEWS: They believe it is a satanic cult run --</s>TRUMP: If you like me to --</s>GUTHRIE: -- the deep states.</s>TRUMP: -- study the subject. I'll tell you what I do know about. I know about antifa and I know about the radical left and how violent they are and how vicious they are and I know how they are burning down cities run by Democrats not run by Republicans.</s>GUTHRIE: Republican Senator Ben Sasse said, quote, "QAnon is nuts. And real leaders call conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories.</s>TRUMP: He may be right.</s>GUTHRIE: Why not just say it's crazy and not true?</s>TRUMP: Can I be honest? He may be right. I just don't know about QAnon.</s>GUTHRIE: You do know.</s>TRUMP: I don't know. No, I don't know.</s>ACOSTA: And the president also gave evasive answers on healthcare, abortion, even his own personal income taxes. But perhaps the biggest missed opportunity of the night for the voters was when the president would not say when his last negative coronavirus test was, leaving open the possibility that he walked into that last presidential debate with Joe Biden, potentially symptomatic for COVID-19. Jim Acosta, CNN, Miami.</s>BRUNHUBER: Biden faced plenty of tough questions from voters in Philadelphia in a town hall moderated by ABC News' George Stephanopoulos. And while his responses were heavy on policy, there were a few times when he chose to dodge, rather than give a straight answer. CNN's Arlette Saenz reports.</s>ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Over the course of a 90-minute town hall here in Philadelphia, Joe Biden faced a range of questions, from how to handle the coronavirus pandemic to the economy, and to even his support for the 1994 crime bill. This was a heavily policy focused discussion as he faced questions from a mix of undecided voters and people who have already made up their minds about supporting Biden or Trump. And one of the most noteworthy exchanges came when during a discussion about the issue of court packing, Joe Biden has deflected when asked about adding more justices to the Supreme Court, for weeks now. And he offered a bit more of a detailed answer in this town hall. Take a listen.</s>JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not a fan, I didn't say it depends on how this turns out. I'm open to considering what happens from that point on.</s>GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, CHIEF ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: You know you said so many times during the campaign, or through the course of your career, it's important to level with the American people.</s>BIDEN: It is. But George, if I say -- no matter what answer I gave you, if I say it, that's the headline tomorrow. It won't be about what's going on now, the improper way they are proceeding.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: But don't voters have a right to know where you stand?</s>BIDEN: They do have a right to know where they stand. I have a right to know where I stand before they vote.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: So, your come out with a clear position before election day?</s>BIDEN: Yes.</s>SAENZ: So, Biden they are not completely ruling out the possibility of adding more justices to the Supreme Court, saying he wants to see how this nomination with Amy Coney Barrett moves forward, and will give voters a bit more of an answer closer to election day. Now, but Biden also criticized President Trump for his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. And he was asked about a coronavirus vaccine and whether it should be mandated. Biden said that there should be a discussion of making it mandatory, but acknowledged that there could be legal issues with actually implementing that. But overall, Biden state very policy focused as he was presenting his agenda for a Biden administration, offering a contrast to the president, without the president even being on that stage. Now, on Friday, Joe Biden is heading to Michigan, where he will have two stops in that critical battleground state as early voting is underway and he is trying to get people to head out and vote. Back to you.</s>BRUNHUBER: At their town halls, both candidates were asked about their personal COVID testing regimens. Their answers underscored their differences. Biden confirmed daily testing and described the tests he usually takes. Mr. Trump wouldn't give specific details, and he refused to say whether he had taken a test before the first presidential debate, days before he was hospitalized with the virus. Now listen.</s>GUTHRIE: So, did you take a test on the day of the debate, I guess is the bottom line?</s>TRUMP: I probably did and I took a test the day before and the day before and I was always in great shape and I was in great shape before the debate.</s>GUTHRIE: Do you take a test every single day?</s>TRUMP: No, no, but I take a lot of tests.</s>GUTHRIE: OK. And you don't know if you took a test on the day of the debate.</s>TRUMP: Possibly I did. Possibly I didn't.</s>BIDEN: By the way before I came up here, I took another chest. I've been taking it every day, the deep test, you know, the one they're going both. Because I wanted to be able to -- if I had not passed that test, and they didn't want to come here, and not, you know, expose anybody. And I just think it's -- it's just decency.</s>BRUNHUBER: Leslie Vinjamuri joins us from London where she is the head of the U.S. and Americas program at Chatham House. Thank you so much for joining us. I want to talk about something which -- well maybe the president doesn't want to have keep coming up -- you know, the QAnon thing. I mean, we know the president doesn't want to really alienate supporters who hold fringe positions, but in not condemning them in that question, is that just creating yet another destruction for him late in the campaign when the attention could be better focused elsewhere?</s>LESLIE VINJAMURI, HEAD, U.S. AND THE AMERICAS PROGRAMME, CHATHAM HOUSE: Well, I think to be very honest, destruction is a very mild word for something that's very dangerous potentially and the words of the president speak miles to those who are listening and for QAnon and for permission. So, yes, it's certainly a distraction for him if he's trying to get that 5 percent of the electorate that hasn't fully decided who they intent to vote for. If he's trying to persuade them that this is a president who will ensure security and safety in America streets then I think that that's a distraction. But it's far more potentially damaging and destabilizing, because it sends a signal to certain groups that they, that the president is granting them permission to remain active.</s>BRUNHUBER: All right, let's turn to Biden, now. Why this sort of roughly middle ground of not taking a firm position on court packing until later?</s>VINJAMURI: Yes, this has been very interesting. And we saw also the vice-presidential nominee, Kamala Harris, in the debates with Mike Pence, also deflect this question. They've clearly wanted to watch and see the hearings for Amy Coney Barrett to judge the public sentiment, to see how critically the Senate will move towards a confirmation. All of these are critical questions. But you know, what we did hear last night is that there will be that Vice President Biden will make a decision before those debates -- before the election. So, there is a commitment. But it is true that they haven't wanted to very clearly say what their position yet, is. And this is a very important, very important issue, obviously, for Democratic Party voters, very important issue for Trump's base. America is very polarized. They feel very passionately about social issues in very different ways. And the Supreme Court is the lightning rod for that social division in America.</s>BRUNHUBER: Absolutely. Well there's no question looking at them that of the two town halls, I guess, the president got the greater grilling from the moderator. We saw the Trump campaign tweet about it after. It's all they were talking about on Fox, and Hunter Biden, I guess, so. Will his supporters see this town hall as the real debate? The debate Trump is engaged with every day a debate, not against Biden, but against the left wing press intent on destroying him, this, you know, watching this would just confirm everything that they knew, that the establishment is against him, and maybe it will further encourage them to rally the wagons?</s>VINJAMURI: I -- you know, I think that that is beyond a shadow of a doubt. That is the narrative has really taken hold for several years now. It's not new that the president hasn't been given a fair platform, that he has been attacked by the media. We've seen this -- I don't think it's going to change anything to do with the turnout or voting. It might drive more people to be sure that they vote for -- remember, that we are on track for a record turnout in the United States. David Wassermann of the Cook Political Report is anticipating between 150 and 160 million Americans will turn out to vote. That's one up from 137 million in 2016. So, people are already passionate. They are passionate on both sides. But absolutely, his supporters will see him as being attacked again. It will drive turnout. And a lot of what's happening right now on both sides of that aisle is about ensuring that people stand in those very, very long lines, that they mail-in their ballots, that they exercise their right to vote. It's incredibly important, but it's also important for the candidates to ensure that people do turn out and vote. Because remember, as I said before, there's only about 5 percent of the electorate that haven't made up their minds. For most people, it's just about ensuring that they do actually vote.</s>BRUNHUBER: I want to drill down on that. You mentioned an interesting point, the number of people who have voted, you know, almost 18 million Americans so far. Is that a real reflection of the energy in this campaign maybe for either side? Or just a reflection of the COVID realities that people want to get it done early, and, you know, given the misinformation coming from the White House, might be afraid of voting by mail?</s>VINJAMURI: I think it's a combination of factors. I think that people are very aware that voting is complicated, that it might not go as smoothly as we would all like to go. But the lines are long, that the mail-in balloting has been fraught because the president has attacked the legitimacy of mail-in balloting, that he is claiming fraud, people are certainly worried that if they mail-in those ballots they might not be counted, they might be contested. We've seen, you know, that the litigation in the state of Pennsylvania, a critical state. But I think that people are just very certain of who they want to be president. They are passionate I -- mean, you know, the upside for America's democracy is that people are passionately engaged. So, they are lining up because they want to be sure that their vote is heard. So, you know, there are many positive stories coming out of what is a very, very, difficult time in American politics.</s>BRUNHUBER: Well said. Thank you so much. Leslie Vinjamuri with Chatham House in London. I appreciate it.</s>VINJAMURI: Thank you.</s>BRUNHUBER: Health officials are alarmed about a second wave of coronavirus cases engulfing Europe. So just ahead, we'll take you to London to find out about the new restrictions the British are planning to impose in the coming hours. Plus, we'll talk to a virus expert to find out what he thinks of President Trump's take on mask wearing. That's just ahead. Stay with us.

Virus Infections Spike Due to Complacency; England Facing New Restrictions; In-Person Schooling Not Safe for Children and Families; World Health Organization Officials Grapple With COVID-19 Surge

BRUNHUBER: There was troubling news for the U.S. and its struggle with the coronavirus. An influential model now predicts that could be more than 389,000 COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. by February. This comes as much of the country is seeing a spike in new infections. CNN's Brian Todd has more.</s>BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New warnings that this pandemic is taking a devastating toll on rural America. Tennessee's health commissioner is sounding an alarm for her state.</s>LISA PIERCEY, COMMISSIONER, TENNESSEE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH: That has been very startling to me and the team over the last several days. Our death rate in rural population is doubled out in the urban population.</s>TODD: In Kentucky, one of seven states that have just reported record high hospitalizations for one day, the governor says residents need to be jolted into action.</s>GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): Everybody ought to be concerned. And everybody ought to be doing the right thing. And those that are out there that try to confront you for wearing a mask or being a jerk, that's all they are. And they are putting your health at risk.</s>TODD: Wisconsin just reported more than 1,000 hospitalizations on Wednesday. Its highest numbers for a single day since the pandemic began. What's behind the spikes in rural areas across the U.S.?</s>JESSICA MALATY RIVERA, SCIENCE COMMUNICATION LEAD, THE COVID TRACKING PROJECT: Some of the bigger mandates that happen in cities like mask wearing and physical distancing are not really translating are going as far as rural areas.</s>TODD: This comes as 35 states are trending upward and experiencing new coronavirus cases. And for the first time in months, the U.S. recorded nearly 60,000 new cases in one day, on Wednesday.</s>RIVERA: A lot of reasons that can explain these trends are, number one, fall weather usually brings colder temperatures and that means more people are doing indoor activities, which is very high risk when it comes to virus transmission. We are seeing some restrictions loosening in several states.</s>TODD: Meantime, America's top voice on the pandemic, citing the dangers of household gatherings, told ABC that this year, more Americans may have to forego bringing their extended families together for Thanksgiving.</s>ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We really have to be careful this time, and each individual family evaluate the risk benefit of doing that.</s>TODD: And there's a new push back to the idea of so-called herd immunity, letting the first run unchecked through communities so more people would contract COVID-19. The thought being some could later develop resistance to the virus. It's been promoted by some scientists and some people in the Trump administration. But 14 public health organizations are condemning the idea.</s>FAUCI: If you just let things rip and let the infection go, no masks, crowd, it doesn't make any difference, that, quite frankly, is ridiculous.</s>TODD: And their new concern that another great fall institution in America, college football, could be in some jeopardy. The biggest name in the sport, Alabama head coach, Nick Saban, has tested positive. The coach of the University of Mississippi says his queen team is, quote, "having issues with COVID after having played Alabama last Saturday." And a big game between Florida and LSU slated for this coming weekend has had to be postponed at least until December after several members of the Florida program tested positive. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.</s>BRUNHUBER: Now, of course, the U.S. isn't the only country with coronavirus numbers heading in the wrong direction. We are getting some troubling new numbers from Germany. During the past 24 hours the country reported daily case record of more than 7,000 new infections. And other European nations are ramping up restrictions as cases surge there as well. In France, some of its hardest hit areas including Paris will face a 9 p.m. curfew starting later Friday. Health officials in Italy say the country's new case numbers set another record Thursday with almost 9000. And in the U.K., London plans to increase its alert level on Saturday from medium to high. So, we've all those angles covered for you this hour. We'll start first in the U.K. Phil Black is joining us now from London with more on the new restrictions there. Phil, several regions including London where you are moving to tier two lockdown. Practically, what does that mean?</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Kim, So, it's London, but more than that, it is more than half of England's population. They will be living with tougher new restrictions from this weekend. In most of the affected regions nothing is being forced to close but people's personal lives are going to be significantly impacted. The key change is from Saturday, tomorrow, the people who don't live together will not be allowed to spend time together indoors, so no hanging out with friends and family in homes, restaurants, cafes. Anywhere that's in inside. They can still socialize outside in groups of up to six but that's going to become less practical as the winter deepens. What it means is that people are going to find it tougher to maintain, to access, to draw support from key personal relationships. London's mayor says it's necessary because the virus is running out of control across, and spreading rapidly across much or every part of London, he says. But this is not just London. In the north of England, Liverpool is already in a higher alert category in which pubs and bars and some other businesses are forced to close, the government once Manchester and Lancashire to also join that category. But so far, those areas are essentially refusing, defying the government, insisting they need more financial assistance in order to do that. The government's tiered regional approach to dealing with the coronavirus through the winter, it was only recently announced but it's already under a great deal of pressure from critics on two sides. On one side, you have those who believe that the existing measures are inadequate, that they are weak, that they will not significantly slow the virus, and they are pushing for some sort of national move, like a short-term lockdown to get ahead of the virus. And then on the other hand, you've got a growing number of critics particularly within the prime minister's own conservative party who are fed up with restrictions altogether, and who openly question whether they do any good at all, Kim.</s>BRUNHUBER: All right. Phil Black in London, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Now for more on the surge in coronavirus cases around the world, let's bring in Sterghios Moschos from Newcastle England, he is an associate professor of molecular virology at Northumbria University. Thank you so much for joining us here. I will start, you know, where you are, northeast of England among the region's worst hit by the virus in the country. We just saw almost, you know, some 2,000 students and universities there in the northeast test positive in the last week or so. How big a factor has students been going back to school, been in the surge that we are seeing in so many countries including, you know, here in the U.S.?</s>STERGHIOS MOSCHOS, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN CELLULAR & MOLECULAR SCIENCES, NORTHUMBRIA UNIVERSITY: So back in August, we saw many cases of outbreaks in universities and colleges in the United States. Another time it became very clear that it was a major risk for any country in the world that the congregation of young people in the settings of schools and colleges would increase transmission. And there were warnings given back then that we will see then ongoing transmission in the community that would lead to the seniors being infected and being put at risk of death or permanent disability, or basically loss of quality of life because of this virus. Unfortunately, governments worldwide did not seem to learn from that situation. They didn't take the necessary decisions to prevent the transmission. I am, first and foremost, an academic and an education focused person. I want to be next to my students to teach them. I enjoy that process most, more than anything else in the university. But first, before that comes their health and the health of society. But unfortunately, the place we are standing right now is not supporting neither the health of students, nor the health of society.</s>BRUNHUBER: So, you are saying in-person education should not continue, is that the solution here?</s>MOSCHOS: For the foreseeable future unless it's absolutely necessary. It's very clear that we cannot have face to face education. That involves both the academics the teachers at schools, and I would even hazard the primary schools and below nurseries not being open. Because we now have data from Switzerland, from France, from Germany, from Italy, from Greece, you know, from everywhere, showing that transmission happens with children, and we do not know, still, and we won't know for years what is the developmental impact of this virus. So, we cannot take that risk. Beyond that, we need to be able to sustain function of this society and the economy. And if we are allowing the virus to create to access bubbles of the sizes of schools and their associated families and workplace, well, we are not achieving that.</s>BRUNHUBER: Well, one thing that might help bring down those numbers, experts agree of course we have to wear masks. But even yesterday at a town hall with voters President Trump questioned the use of masks. Listen to this.</s>TRUMP: I am OK with masks. I tell people to wear masks. But just the other day they came with a statement that 85 percent of the people that wear masks catch it.</s>BRUNHUBER: All right. So, the president got the number right there, but the interpretation of the study was wrong. You know, the truth is, though, I mean, wearing mask, especially a cloth mask as we know isn't necessarily designed to protect the wearer, but how pervasive is this, you know, masks don't stop the spread claim? And how harmful is this misinformation giving -- given what we are seeing now with the rise in case numbers?</s>MOSCHOS: Yes, it's absolutely and totally harmful. I cannot emphasize in stronger words without being appropriate for the time of day, that the lack of use of reasonable personal protective equipment, and my God, a cloth mask is a reasonable piece of protective personal equipment, put at risk everyone in your own immediate vicinity and everyone in your community. The data is clear from the best universe of the United States, the best universities in the U.K. that face masks prevent the migration of aerosols. And we also have results showing that even the incoming aerosols can be contained to an extent by masks. So why shouldn't we not wear this? There is absolutely nothing about it. And the study about the 85 percent people apparently by wearing masks, well, that's just a number that, you know, can be impressive, but what we don't know is whether these people washing their masks between users or discarding them, whether washing their hands effectively. Whether they're getting infected by people at their own homes in a setting where they weren't wearing masks? So, it's not as simple, you know, most people that get the virus are wearing masks anyway. It really isn't like that. No. It's multiple layers of protection and we need to take all of these into account.</s>BRUNHUBER: So if masks are part of the solution to prevention while the cure still eludes us, and further to that, a World Health Organization study came out and found that the antiviral drug Remdesivir has little or no effect on mortality for patients hospitalized within and it doesn't seem to help patients recover any faster. How surprising, and maybe how disappointing is that given that it's become almost, you know, standard treatment for many here, especially the serious cases?</s>MOSCHOS: Look, the scientists have come up saying that they are criticizing the design of the study, et cetera, et cetera. But the reality is, clinicians will take a drug that looks like it's good enough and they will start giving it to people. And that's exactly what the solidarity trial represents. And what we see from those graphs in the trial, is that there is practically no difference between any of the four treatments. If there is a slight difference that is that hydroxychloroquine and interferon actually increase slightly the risk of mortality of death to coronavirus disease. Remdesivir and Lopinavir basically do nothing. When you build a house, you want to have flat ground so that you have stable foundation. So, if there is any difference then you may start seeing it. Well, that's the thing. This trial shows us that these two drugs, which I believe only one of them was given to Donald Trump, actually as good as sugar water. The drugs are flat nearly as a pancake. So here we are. We only have Dexamethasone right now that seems to have a degree of effect on the outcome of the disease once you're hospitalized. Therefore, I need to bring home the message to the listeners that we have four drugs, four drugs that we've had high hopes with and none of them work. We've got many vaccines -- We've got many vaccines also in advance stages of trials. And what we need to realize is the vaccines may not work. And we need to be working to that possibility that the vaccines may not work. And not that we have to just live with it, but we have to eliminate this conditions because, otherwise, society breaks down. And we just don't want that, do we?</s>KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We will have to end on that depressing note. I guess the point is --</s>MOSCHOS: It's not (inaudible), it's a reality.</s>BRUNHUBER: Just wear a mask that will circumvent a lot of this misery. Thank you so much, Sterghios Moschos, from Moscow in Newcastle, we really appreciate it.</s>MOSCHOS: You are very welcome.</s>BRUNHUBER: Well, there is much more ahead, on CNN, including more analysis on our top story. Those dueling town halls for the U.S. President, and his Democratic challenger. Stay with us.

Giuliani Targeted By Russian Intelligence

BRUNHUBER: And welcome back to you our viewers in the United States, Canada, and around the world. I am Kim Brunhuber, and you are watching CNN Newsroom. With early voting already underway, the U.S. Presidential contenders held dueling town hall events Thursday night. President Donald Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden, did not debate directly, because Mr. Trump refused to participate in a virtual format. But, at the respective events, both candidates face tough questions, including queries on what they do if they lost.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- just the way I wanted to be. But when I see thousands of ballots, right? Unsolicited ballots, being given out by the millions, and thousands of them are dumped in dumpsters, and when you see ballots with the name Trump military ballots, from our great military, and they are dumped in garbage cans.</s>SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, JOURNALIST: Why is a handful -- we can go all night, which we won't, but we can go all night --</s>TRUMP: No, it is not happening every day.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Vice President, if you lose, what will that say to you about where America is today?</s>JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, 2020 U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, it could say that I am a lousy candidate. And that I didn't do a good job. But, I think, and I hope, that it does not say that we are as racially, ethnically, and religiously at odds with one another as it appears the president wants this to be.</s>BRUNHUBER: Election Day is now less than three weeks away, but more than 17 million early voters have already cast ballots in 44 states, and Washington D.C. CNN's political director thinks the U.S. President likely did not win over new voters in this town hall performance. David Chalian said, Mr. Trump's references to conspiracy theories like QAnon, would not help him very much.</s>DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Who is the voter he added tonight when the headline is QAnon, once again, you know, all over the map on that. Not discrediting it entirely, this notion that that he can just retweet things that have no basis in fact, give conversation out there, to the people that they should be able to talk about it. He's the president of the United States. He is behind in this race, and there are very few opportunities left with this kind of tune in factor for him to actually add to his coalition now.</s>BRUNHUBER: Conservative CNN political commentator, Michael Smerconish says Republicans aren't trying to add new voters, they are trying to motivate the voters they already have.</s>MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I understand what David said, and logically, logically, you would think it is a night where he is seeking to do some addition. But that's never been the way that he's governed, and it's never been the way that he has run this campaign. It is not about addition, in their mind, it is about motivation.</s>BRUNHUBER: Smerconish criticize the fact that both town halls occurred simultaneously. He said, forcing viewers to switch between channels may have left some people with a skewed perspective. During the impeachment process, against President Trump, he was reportedly warned that his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, was being used as a conduit for Russian misinformation. According to the Washington Post, citing several former officials, the president was directly told that Giuliani became a target of Russian intelligence while he was in the Ukraine. Trying to dig up dirt on Joe Biden and his son Hunter. The Russians apparent intent was to get Giuliani to pass that information directly to President Trump. But after the president was warned, one former official told the Post, (inaudible) said that's Rudy. All right. Still ahead, a common challenge for the European Union, France, and Italy are among the countries taking firm action, as COVID cases spike. Stay with us.

Italy, France Take Action As COVID-19 Cases Surge

BRUNHUBER: All right. Let's go back to Europe in the alarming rise in COVID-19 cases there. The World Health Organization says roughly 80 percent of European countries are now seeing a rise in infections. So here's a snapshot of some of those. France, Spain, the Czech Republic, and the U.K. Now, France has reported a new record for daily infections, while Italy is beginning to close schools that had only reopened last month. We have reporters covering all the angles. We are live in Bordeaux, France, and Rome, Italy. France is imposing a curfew on many of its COVID hotspots including the capital city Paris. So, that is where we're we go now. We are not going to go to Paris. We'll go to Melissa Bell in France who is joining us from Bordeaux. Melissa, with the curfew just on the horizon, what's the latest there?</s>MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that very worrying figures from last night, the largest daily increase in new cases that we've seen since this began, more than 30,000 new cases declared for a single day. And to put that figure into perspective, Kim, you have to consider what the French president announced on Wednesday, when he announced the series of curfews for nine French cities. The idea, he said was to bring the number of daily cases down to 3 to 5,000. So, that's how far France has to go to meet the president aim. The question is, whether just these curfews will be enough. From Saturday, what we will see is that nine cities with curfews from 9:00 p.m., until 6:00 a.m., it's going to be policed by 12,000 policemen and women. Will it be enough though to bring those soaring rates back under control? The positivity rate, by the, way also interesting, Kim. 12.6 percent, the highest we've seen yet, and just to put that figure in perspective. On the first of September, it was three times less than that. That is how quickly things have progressed and how widespread the virus now is and how exponentially fast it's rising, especially in some of those really badly hit cities. Kim?</s>BRUNHUBER: All right. We will keep following that story, thank you so, much. CNN's Melissa Bell from Bordeaux, France. So, now, we go to the Italian capital where CNN's Ben Wedeman is tracking a surge in cases there. So, Ben, the U.K. just added Italy to its visitor to quarantine lists. So, another sign I guess of the worsening COVID situation where you are?</s>BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Definitely. What we are seeing a surge in numbers. In fact yesterday, Italy reported 8,804 cases, that's almost 2,000 more than the height of the pandemic, earlier this year. What we also saw yesterday, that the death toll jumped from Wednesday, 43, to 83. So, definitely, the situation here is getting much worse. Still much better than France, fortunately. But, there are certain parts of the country where there is real concern, and that is in the region of Campania where Naples is located. There, that region now has the second highest number of active cases, and what is significant about that is that unlike the north of Italy, where the public health system is very good, where people are relatively wealthy. In the south, in Campania people are much poorer and the public health system is much less equipped than the north to deal with this outbreak of COVID. And in addition to that, you have some of the most densely populated parts of the country. So, the fear is that that part of Italy, which was relatively spared in the earlier phases of the pandemic, earlier this year. Could be about to be hit like a tsunami, as a result of these rising numbers. So, we understand that now in that area, in that region, Campania, schools will be closed, restaurants must closed by 9:00 p.m. All parties, civic gatherings, religious gatherings, are banned. And now there is talk of the possibility of imposing French style curfews on that part of the country as well. Kim?</s>BRUNHUBER: All right. Thank you so much Ben Wedeman in Rome, I appreciate it. And please do stay with us, we will be right back with our top story, more on the dueling town halls, stay with us.

Biden, Trump Respond to Questions about the Economy; Biden And Trump Town Halls Mirror U.S. Divide; Town Halls Won't Change Minds; Trump Rallies As COVID Numbers Rise.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. Ahead this hour. On different networks in different cities, Trump and Biden held two very different town halls. In many ways, symbolic of a country deeply politically divided and socially distant. The second wave of the coronavirus pandemic now crashing across Europe. Cases on the rise in almost every country. London on maximum alert, a nighttime curfew for Paris.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My plan is already crushing the virus. Look at our numbers, look at our numbers.</s>CROWD: (Applause)</s>VAUSE: Look at the numbers. By any measure, the numbers are shockingly tragic. With predictions the U.S. will count almost 390,000 dead from this pandemic by February. The U.S. president and his Democratic rival were more than 2,000 kilometers apart on different networks in different cities but they may as well have been in different universes. President Trump and Joe Biden were meant to have a virtual debate Thursday night, a health precaution after Trump was diagnosed with the coronavirus. But he refused. So voters had to flip between dueling town halls airing at the same time. Joe Biden answered questions about policy including how he'd deal with the coronavirus pandemic, how he'd protect black Americans from police violence and racial injustice. He did make a commitment though about the issue of packing the supreme court. More on that in a moment. Meantime, Donald Trump's town hall was mostly antagonistic. He argued with the moderator about conspiracy theories, his tax returns, how he'd handle the pandemic, face masks, the whole works. But the question is did President Trump's town hall offer any new information or insight to those very few undecided voters? Not really, according to our Jim Acosta.</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The voters did not get a lot of straight answers from President Trump during that town hall that took place of a presidential debate with Joe Biden. Given multiple opportunities to denounce the false conspiracy theory, QAnon, the president evaded the question and simply would not say what he thought about the group. And here's more of what he had to say.</s>TRUMP: I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard. But I know nothing about.</s>SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, "NBC" TOWN HALL HOST: They believe it is a Satanic cult --</s>TRUMP: If you'd like me to --</s>GUTHRIE: -- run by the deep state.</s>TRUMP: -- study the subject. I tell you what I do know about. I know about antifa and I know about the radical left and I know how violent they are and how vicious they are. And I know how they are burning down cities run by Democrats, not run by Republicans.</s>GUTHRIE: Republican Senator Ben Sasse said quote, "QAnon is nuts. And real leaders call conspiracy theories conspiracy theories.</s>TRUMP: He may be right.</s>GUTHRIE: Why not just say it's crazy --</s>TRUMP: Can I be honest?</s>GUTHRIE: -- and not true?</s>TRUMP: He may be right. I just don't know about QAnon.</s>GUTHRIE: You do know.</s>TRUMP: I don't know. No, I don't know.</s>ACOSTA: And the president also gave evasive answers on health care, abortion, even his own personal income taxes. But perhaps the biggest missed opportunity of the night for the voters was when the president would not say when his last negative coronavirus test was. Leaving open the possibility that he walked into that last presidential debate with Joe Biden potentially symptomatic for COVID- 19. Jim Acosta. CNN, Miami.</s>VAUSE: Now to the Biden event in Philadelphia. The Democratic nominee mingled with the audience, long after the town hall was over. CNN's Arlette Saenz has that report.</s>ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Over the course of a 90- minute town hall here in Philadelphia, Joe Biden faced a range of questions from how to handle the coronavirus pandemic to the economy. And even his support for the 1994 crime bill. This was a heavily policy-focused discussion as he faced questions from a mix of undecided voters and people who have already made up their minds about supporting Biden or Trump. And one of those noteworthy exchanges came during a discussion about the issue of court packing. Joe Biden has deflected when asked about adding more justices to the supreme court for weeks now. And he offered a bit more of a detailed answer in this town hall. Take a listen.</s>JOE BIDEN, FMR. VICE PRESIDENT AND DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, I'm not a fan, I didn't say -- it depends on how this turns out. I'm open to considering what happens from that point on.</s>GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, CNN ANCHOR: You've said so many times during the campaign, all through the course of your career, it's important to level with the American people.</s>BIDEN: It is. But George if I say -- no one matter what answer I gave you, if I say it, that's the headline tomorrow. It won't be about what's going on now, the improper way they're proceeding.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: But don't voters have a right to know where you stand?</s>BIDEN: They do have a right to know where I stand. And they'll have a right to know where I stand before they vote.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: So you'll come out with a clear position before election day?</s>BIDEN: Yes.</s>SAENZ: So Biden there not completely ruling out the possibility of adding more justices to the supreme court, saying he wants to see how this nomination with Amy Coney Barrett moves forward. And will give voters a bit more of an answer closer to election day. Now Biden also criticized President Trump for his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. And he was asked about a coronavirus vaccine and whether it should be mandated. Biden said that there should be a discussion of making it mandatory but acknowledged that there could be legal issues with actually implementing that. But overall, Biden stayed very policy focused as he was presenting his agenda for a Biden Administration. Offering a contrast to the president without the president even being on that stage. Now on Friday, Joe Biden is heading to Michigan where he will have two stops in that critical battleground state as early voting is underway, he's trying to get people to head out and vote. Back to you.</s>VAUSE: Joining us from New York, CNN political commentator and former Clinton White House aide, Keith Boykin. And in Louisville, Kentucky, CNN political commentator and former assistant to George W. Bush, Scott Jennings. So. Great to have you both with us.</s>SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good evening.</s>KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: (Inaudible).</s>VAUSE: Here's a split screen moment which I thought kind of captured the differences here between these dueling town halls. In Miami, appearing on the NBC network, President Trump arguing with the moderator over wearing a face mask.</s>TRUMP: By the way --</s>GUTHRIE: (...) required at your rallies and you could say --</s>TRUMP: -- I never said don't wear them.</s>GUTHRIE: -- everyone put on a mask right now. And the University of Washington says --</s>TRUMP: Savannah --</s>GUTHRIE: -- you would save lives.</s>TRUMP: -- University of Washington then you have other places say different things. You have a lot -- hey, Dr. Fauci said don't wear a mask, right?</s>GUTHRIE: At first, but then everybody agreed.</s>VAUSE: Sixteen hundred miles away in Philadelphia on "ABC," Joe Biden who was taking a deep dive into education policy.</s>BIDEN: We have one school psychologist in America now for every 1,507 kids. It should be one to 500, not just in schools that are poor, but in all schools.</s>VAUSE: And, Scott, we'll begin with you because I'm curious. How did Trump actually decide that this town hall was a better option than a virtual debate with Joe Biden?</s>JENNINGS: Well, good question. Frankly -- he had a live audience, Biden had a live audience. There was no reason they couldn't have had their normal debate tonight. I frankly lay a lot of the blame at the feet of the presidential debate commission for not pulling this together. So I think it would have been better had they been together. That having been said, Trump, I think, had a better night tonight than he did in his first debate against Joe Biden. He had a decent moment on taxes, he had some not so decent moments on masks and then on the Seal Team 6 tweet and on a couple of other issues. But all in all, he looked good. He was strong, his voice was strong. And he, I think, comported himself better tonight, frankly, than he did when he faced off against Joe Biden a couple of weeks ago. So a better night. Not necessarily a winning night, but a better night.</s>VAUSE: And Keith, your assessment overall?</s>BOYKIN: Well, I think we've really lowered the bar for the President of the United States. The fact that he's able to complete a few sentences, he doesn't fall down and collapse and that he doesn't go off into crazy -- as many crazy tangents as he did in his first debate is supposed to be somehow a better night. It's a reflection of just how bad he was. He was evasive and dishonest, he was like a used car salesman. He didn't remember the last time he had his most coronavirus test which is completely implausible. The idea that they're sticking this six-inch swab in your nose and you can't possibly remember the last time that happened to you. The comment that Scott mentioned about the QAnon tweet. This is the president of the United States who is retweeting a conspiracy theory from this domestic terrorist group known as QAnon, which is suggesting that former vice president Joe Biden somehow was involved in a conspiracy to murder or assassinate the members of Seal Team 6. That's an outrageous thing for any president to say, for any American to say. And the fact that the president of the United States said that, repeated it. And then he went on Savannah Guthrie's town hall and claimed he didn't know anything about QAnon. it's just completely implausible. It's the same lie he used when he talked about the white supremacists at Charlottesville, the same lie he used when he talked about the Proud Boys and the same lie he used when he talked about David Duke years ago.</s>VAUSE: Let me jump in. Because you mentioned the president when he was asked about that -- when he was last tested negative for COVID-19. And in many ways, he did talk in circles. And this is part of what he said.</s>GUTHRIE: Did you take a test on the day of the debate is the bottom line?</s>TRUMP: I probably did. And I took a test the day before and the day before. And I was always in great shape. And I was in great shape for the debate.</s>GUTHRIE: Do you take a test every single day?</s>TRUMP: No, no. But I take a lot of tests.</s>GUTHRIE: OK. And you don't know if you took a test the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: Possibly I did, possibly I didn't.</s>VAUSE: Scott, surely the Trump Campaign knew that this question was coming. Could they have come up with a better answer than "I don't remember?"</s>JENNINGS: Well, yes, you're right. They should have known it was coming and B., yes, they could have a better answer. And the answer is just to say when it was. It's not a hard question. The evasiveness is -- sometimes I find that President Trump is evasive even when it's not in his -- it serves no purpose. Like there's no -- you don't gain anything here, you're not saving anything, you're not scoring any political points. And so better if you just answer it and move on. You already had coronavirus, he came out on the other side of it so the issue is kind of over. So by being evasive, you're prolonging it. I don't understand it.</s>VAUSE: Keith, when it comes to the coronavirus vaccine, Joe Biden made some news with this statement. Listen to this.</s>BIDEN: We should be talking about, depending on the continuation of the spread of the virus, we should be thinking about making it mandatory.</s>STEPHANOPOULOS: But how could you --</s>VAUSE: And you know, Keith, making anything mandatory in this country comes with a boatload of blow back. And vaccines are in a league of their own. This seems to be sort of counter to the strategy we've seen so far from Biden which is sort of lie low and let Trump implode.</s>BOYKIN: Well, when he used the word "mandatory," he offered a ton of caveats. He didn't say everybody's going to be required to do it and George Stephanopoulos even asked him about that. He was talking about the same sort of way that we talk -- we do with schools where we mandate that people are vaccinated to go to schools. He said he would encourage governors of the various states to do that. And if the governors wouldn't mandate it, he would encourage the mayors and the local city officials to put in mandates. But it wasn't a hard mandate saying that you're going to go to prison if you don't take a vaccine, it was more of a statement of government policy. So I don't think there was anything earth shattering in that statement at all. But I think what's more responsible was that he was actually willing to talk about the fact that we do need testing, that we do need a vaccine and we do need to encourage social distancing and mask wearing. And Donald Trump was doing the exact opposite. And he's responsible for the reason why we have so many deaths right now; 215,000 Americans dead. And more than 7.9 million who are infected with coronavirus because of his mismanagement and negligence.</s>VAUSE: This wasn't "FOX NEWS," this was NBC. And so the president faced some tough questions. Like why he -- and to whom did he owe $430 million as reported by the "New York Times." Here's his answer.</s>GUTHRIE: Are you confirming that yes, you do owe some $400 million?</s>TRUMP: What I'm saying is it's a tiny percentage of my net worth.</s>GUTHRIE: That sounds like yes.</s>TRUMP: I don't owe money to any of these sinister people. This has been going on for years now, Russia, Russia, Russia. It turned out to be a hoax. And it turned out to be that Hillary Clinton and the Democrats were dealing with Russia, not me.</s>VAUSE: Scott, much like "When did you last test negative for the coronavirus," this could also be very easily cleared up if he released his tax returns. Is it fair to say that until he does that, the denials by themselves just seem like weak tea?</s>JENNINGS: I'm going to defend the president on this one. Because this is an attempt to launch a conspiracy theory when really none exists. The president files a personal financial disclosure form just like every federal official. And on page 34 and page 35 -- it's online, you could google it -- it clearly lists what his debts are and to whom he owes money. And he owes money to a bank, Deutsche Bank. No one's hiding it, there's is nothing in there about Russia. It is a simple -- I owe this much to a bank. And it is on a government document for all the world to see. So for Savannah Guthrie tonight, just like a lot of Democrats do, to bring it up like it's some sinister cover-up or conspiracy theory is just not true. She should have known better that the president's already filed these documents and they're out there for the world to see.</s>VAUSE: Keith, though --</s>BOYKIN: I want to just be --</s>VAUSE: -- how important is this right now to voters? Because normally it would be pretty huge any other time but not, I guess, at the moment in the midst of a pandemic?</s>BOYKIN: Well, I'm sorry. I didn't get the question, what was it?</s>VAUSE: Just how important it is to the voters right now, this whole issue of what the president owes and his tax returns?</s>BOYKIN: Well, the reality is it's not very important to the voters at all. Because they knew about this in 2016, they suspected he didn't pay taxes. The "New York Times" came out with the report recently, showed that he paid only $750 in taxes in the year 2016 when he ran for president. Which is an outrageously low sum of money for somebody who claims to be a billionaire. Most people who are working people pay far more than that in their taxes every year. And so he's clearly been evading taxes and there are many years where he didn't pay taxes at all. And he's the first president in modern history, the first president since Richard Nixon, not to release his tax returns. The federal financial disclosure forms that Scott talked about, those aren't sufficient, they don't give you all the detailed information you can get in tax returns. And Scott knows that, the president knows that. He keeps using this excuse about he's under audit. The audit doesn't preclude you from releasing your tax returns, we all know that. Even his Republican opponents were saying that in 2016. Nicki Hailey who was (inaudible) recently was out on the campaign trail with Marco Rubio in 2016 saying as an accountant, she knows that there's no audit that precludes you from releasing your tax returns. So the one thing that Trump and Scott are both right about is that they made a central (ph) calculation. That it doesn't matter to voters because people --</s>VAUSE: Yes.</s>BOYKIN: -- make --</s>VAUSE: OK. Very quickly though, Scott. If I just finish up on Scott. Because we also heard from Biden, he made a concession that he will state a position on stacking the supreme court with extra justices. That's after the current nominee to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg is confirmed. Were you surprised by that, Scott? Do you think that has some political downside and risk for Biden?</s>JENNINGS: Well, number one, court packing is horribly unpopular. All the polls show it. And that's why Biden has not wanted to take a position on it because the majority of Americans don't think it's right. But a lot of people in his base do want to do it because they think it's a way to get revenge on Donald Trump for appointing supreme court justices. And he's been stuck between a veritable still and a carapace (ph). I am surprised that he has mishandled it so badly so far. if he really he was sitting on such a large national lead in this race, he would just say to his base look, I'm not going to do it and move forward. And the American people would say good, he gave us a straight answer. The vacillation and obfuscation on this has hurt the Biden Campaign. I'd like to see what position he comes up with here because I'll be stunned if he ever truly gives a straight answer before election day.</s>VAUSE: OK. We are out of time. Thank you both, Keith Boykin and Scott Jennings. Appreciate you being with us. Thanks.</s>JENNINGS: Thank you.</s>BOYKIN: (Inaudible).</s>VAUSE: Well, packing them in the midst of a pandemic. Donald Trump continues to hold likely super spreader events as a new model predicts a soaring U.S. death toll. Also, the ongoing debate: Saving lives or saving jobs. The debate over lockdowns takes on new urgency on both sides of the Atlantic.

Manchester Mayor Blasts U.K. Government Plans for Tier 3 Lockdown; Kenya Stars Struggling Through Pandemic

VAUSE: About 80 percent of all European countries are now seeing a number of confirmed cases rise during the second wave. That number comes from senior infectious disease expert at the World Health Organization. Moments ago Germany announced it set another for new infections. More than 7,300 -- about 700 more than the record set the day before. The Italian health ministry on Wednesday reported its highest daily increase in cases since the pandemic began. The Czech Republic, once a model for how to deal with the pandemic, now home to one of the fastest-growing outbreaks. The prime minister even says the latest numbers are catastrophic. France meantime, set a new record for cases a few days before nightly curfews in the Paris region and several other cities go into effect. And in the U.K. London has been moved to a high alert level. That means different households can't mix indoors anymore. Greater Manchester and other city regions are slamming the government for wanting to move them to a very high alert level, in which case, pubs would have to close. Before we go to CNN's Melissa Bell in Paris, let's hear from Salma Abdelaziz in Manchester, England.</s>SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: I'm Salma Abdelaziz in Manchester where the mayor has outright rejected calls from the government to increase the alert level of this city to very high risk. That is the highest tier in England's the new three-tier COVID alert system. This is what the mayor had to say.</s>ANDY BURNHAM, MAYOR, GREATER MANCHESTER: They are asking us to gamble our residents' jobs, homes, and businesses, and a large chunk of our economy on a strategy that their own experts tell them might not work. We would never sign off for that.</s>ABDELAZIZ: Prime Minister Boris Johnson's strategy to deal with this latest spike is under increased scrutiny. On the one, hand you have the prime minister and his government arguing that small limited regional lockdowns is the best way to tackle the surge in cases. On the other hand, you have a growing camp of people who say, a circuit breaker is needed. Essentially, a nationwide complete lockdown. On that side, you have the country's top scientific advisers. All of this political wrangling happening while the number of coronavirus cases across the U.K. continues to rise.</s>MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Here in France, a system of curfews announced by the French president in order to try and tackle the country's soaring COVID 19 figures, again tonight, another record was set in terms of the number of new cases announced for a single 24- hour period. That's something that we've seen over the course of the last week several times, records broken, And of course, that will have an incidents on the strain on ICUs. The French president explained last night on television that the second wave threatens to be even worse than had been the first because the virus was now so spread out across France and because there were now no spare beds. The question now of whether that will be enough, of course, poses itself from Saturday. It is also a state of emergency that France enters with restrictions possibly than if the numbers don't improve. Melissa Bell, CNN -- Paris.</s>VAUSE: Well, before this pandemic swept across the world and Africa in particular, one of the stars of Kenya's Rugby Sevens team was hoping he would have an Olympic battle now. Instead, he is training on his own and not getting paid. Here is CNN's David McKenzie.</s>DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Andrew Amonde likes to lead by example. After months of lockdown, the 14-year veteran and captain of Kenya Sevens rugby team is back training for his Olympic dreams.</s>ANDREW AMONDE, KENYA SEVENS: Sports can still go on despite having the pandemic around.</s>MCKENZIE: Training without his teammates or even a contract.</s>AMONDE: All of the contracts were canceled. And there is the dangers for free because I love the game, you know. When I play the rugby, I came and developed a love for it. And I just</s>MCKENZIE: A love of the game tested by COVID-19. Organizers grabbed the popular global Sevens tournament when the pandemic struck. Suddenly out of cash, the Kenyan rugby union says, it was left with little choice. But you stopped paying its players. Amonde says the youngest team members were hardest hit.</s>AMONDE: There's no other can go now because there are no jobs for them now because they are fulltime rugby players. And the only thing they can wait for is for rugby to resume and for them to be get both their contracts.</s>MCKENZIE: When CNN visited the Sevens Team in 2018 they were on a high. Their success growing the fast paced Sevens game in Kenya, even competing for attention with the country's fabled runners. But the national team has struggled to win games since then. Amonde says its time to rebuild.</s>AMONDE: Getting -- to get your expectation level --</s>MCKENZIE: His goal is to medal in Tokyo -- that's a challenge. And the Kenyans' strict lockdown-rules. Amonde still can't compete or even practice with his teammates. Hard work and sacrifice is something Amonde and the Kenyan Sevens team know all about. If fans don't call them to or heroes for nothing. David McKenzie, CNN.</s>VAUSE: Coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, thanks to the coronavirus pandemic, millions of people are now facing epic new challenges. CNN travels around the globe to find out the impact.

World Food Programme: 265M Facing Acute Food Shortages

VAUSE: Some alarming new details from the U.N. on the impact of the COVID-19 virus. The World Food Programme projects 265 million people could face what it calls acute food insecurity this year because of the pandemic. A 130 million increase compared to last year. The virus is disrupting supply chains and economic hardship means fewer are giving to charities. That means food programs are being cut just when they're needed the most. We have reports now from CNN correspondents in Havana, London, and Johannesburg.</s>ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Eleni Giokos, in Tembisa in Johannesburg. And today we have families, children waiting for their weekly food parcel. And it basically includes staples like corn meal and the likes of oil, some</s>GIOKOS: And of course, children were also under big pressure. The nutrition program that was feeding around 9.6 million children daily came to a standstill for a few months. Now, we are emerging out of a lockdown. Economic activity is resuming, but assistance like this absolutely remains vital in South Africa.</s>ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Anna Stewart in London. The pandemic has pushed people into poverty on an unprecedented scale here in the U.K. In March, there was an 81 percent increase and people needing help from food banks like this one, according to the Truffle Trust Charity. At the start of the lockdown, about half of those turning up for emergency food parcels had never needed help from one before. Job losses ,reduced hours and reduced pay have been detrimental, particularly to those who are already on low incomes. The number of people on welfare support called universal credit here in the U.K. has more than doubled this year. It is expected to rise further. The government's furlough scheme has ended and the new replacement scheme is far less generous. Many fear that the U.K. could be on the brink of mass unemployment. The Truffle Trust Charity says that 670,000 additional people could be classed as destitute by the end of this year if the government does not do more to support them.</s>VAUSE: Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause. Please stay with. I will be back after a very short break. You're watching CNN.

Pfizer Expects to Apply for Emergency Use Authorization in U.S. for Its COVID-19 Vaccine as Early as Next Month

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A very good Friday morning to you. It is Friday. I'm Jim Sciutto.</s>POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: It's been a week. I'm Poppy Harlow. We're so glad you're here. Well, this morning, we are following new developments in the race for a coronavirus vaccine as the nation grapples with a surge in cases and hospitalizations across the country. Drug Giant Pfizer says it now expects to apply for emergency use authorization for its COVID vaccine in the United States as early as late next month. They say, we're operating at the speed of science. That's notable. It comes in this open letter from Pfizer's CEO where he also writes, quote, all the data contained in our U.S. application will be reviewed not only by the FDA's own scientist but also by an external panel of independent panel of experts at a publicly held meeting convened by the agency.</s>SCIUTTO: Now, to be clear that pledge of transparency is standard. It is still important though given America's growing concerns, questions that political pressure coming from the White House might apply pressure to rush a vaccine before it's safe and ready. Also this morning, President Trump and Joe Biden both back on the campaign trail today after last night's dueling town halls, a stark contrast in both substance and style. More from the town halls in a moment. First, we do want to go to Elizabeth Cohen for what we know about this Pfizer vaccine trial. And we spoke about his last hour, but is anything of what they're doing here in terms of public release of the information and also getting an outside panel to kind of double check the results, any of that unusual?</s>ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Jim, the outside panel, as it's described in the letter from the CEO of Pfizer doesn't seem to be anything different. All of these trials have to not just go to the Food and Drug Administration, they also have to go through what's called the data and safety monitoring board. This board is so independent, Jim, that they actually won't tell you who's on it because they don't want anybody to try to influence them. So that's good. That's the standard way of doing it. That's a good way of doing it. What we're seeing is Pfizer and other companies getting smarter and emphasizing not speed, but emphasizing safety because they can see from the polls they get worse and worse with each passing month, so many Americans not trusting this vaccine. So now the companies are getting smarter and emphasizing safety. Now, I want to take a look at a sentence from this letter from the Pfizer's CEO. And there's a word here that really gives me some pause and I think should give all of us pause, as far as sort of putting this in context. This says, assuming positive data, Pfizer will apply for emergency authorization use in the U.S. soon after the safety milestone is achieved in the third week of November, assuming positive data. What they're trying to say is, look, we anticipate having data to look at. Assuming it's positive, we will go for authorization from the FDA. It might not be positive. They don't know because they haven't seen it. It might not be positive. They might end up with data showing, look, you did a trial and, so far, your vaccine is not working or we can't tell if your vaccine is working, continue your trial. So the fact that they're saying, assuming positive data, tells us they might not actually be going to the FDA. They might or they might not. And that's important for us all to keep in mind just to sort of temper our expectations. Jim, Poppy?</s>SCIUTTO: Understood. Glad you caught that, Elizabeth. It's why we have you dive into this so deeply. Well, Joe Biden and President Trump are both back on the campaign trail today holding events in key states this after last night's dueling town halls. President Trump tried to reset his campaign while also defending his response to the pandemic.</s>HARLOW: Let's go to Ocala, Florida. The president is set to have a rally there today. And it's where we find our Jeremy Diamond. Good morning, to you, Jeremy. Florida always a crucial state, especially crucial for the president this year on that path to re-nomination with older voters, where he has been struggling in recent weeks across the state.</s>JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question. This is a state that the president won last time around in 2016, and he is fighting here to try and win it again. The president on defense in many of those battleground states that he won last time around. And his problems in Florida are particularly acute with seniors, as you mentioned. And that is where he is beginning his day today in Fort Myers, Florida, with an event focused on America's seniors and his plans for American seniors. This, as we know that Joe Biden has been gaining advantage with those seniors who were reliable demographic for the president back in 2016. After that, we'll find the president here in Ocala, Florida, where he will have a campaign rally, and then another rally this evening in Macon, Georgia. And so what is clear is that the president moving forward with this campaign as if this pandemic were not happening. And that is also what we heard from the president last night, during his town hall in Miami, where we heard the president continue to downplay the threat of this pandemic and insist that the United States is doing better than it actually is. Listen.</s>SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, MSNBC HOST: Our deaths per capita is among the highest --</s>DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Excess mortality. We're a winner on the excess mortality. And what we've done has been amazing. And we have done an amazing job. And it's rounding the corner and we have the vaccines coming and we have the therapies coming.</s>DIAMOND: And you hear the president say there that we are rounding the corner when, in fact, cases are shooting up across the country. Most states in the United States right now experiencing increases and the availability data on the excess mortality just doesn't support what the president is saying. And Savannah Guthrie is correct there to point out that the United States has one of the highest death rates per capita. Now, the president was also asked last night about this question about when he had his last negative test. Listen to the response.</s>GUTHRIE: Did you test the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: I don't know. I don't remember.</s>GUTHRIE: Did you take a test though on the day of the debate?</s>TRUMP: If you ask the doctor, they'll give you a perfect answer. But they take the test and I leave and I go about my business.</s>GUTHRIE: So did you take a test on the day of the debate, I guess, is the bottom line?</s>TRUMP: I probably did. And I took a test the day before and the day before.</s>DIAMOND: And this is a question, Jim and Poppy, that the president and his team have repeatedly refused to answer. And the president saying there that he doesn't remember if he took a test on debate day is probably all we need to hear. The president likely would remember if he took a test on the day of the debate, particularly because it's been such a source of controversy since the president tested positive for coronavirus. And what we know is that the president not only do we know if he tested positive on that day of the debate but he also went on to travel to several states in the days following that, and, again, putting other people at risk, as we know. Jim, Poppy?</s>SCIUTTO: Well, knowing is essential to proper contact tracing. The when matters. Jeremy Diamond, thanks very much. Well, President Trump misrepresented a week's old CDC study during last night's town hall, making false claims, we've got to say it, about masks and infection. Have a listen.</s>TRUMP: As far as the mask is concerned, I'm good with masks. I'm okay with masks. I tell people to wear masks. But just the other day, they came out with a statement that 85 percent of the people that wear masks catch it. So, this is a very tricky --</s>GUTHRIE: They didn't say that. I know that study.</s>TRUMP: That's what I heard and that's what I saw.</s>SCIUTTO: Well, it's not what the study said. It talked about people going to indoor restaurants. Let's move on for a moment. The president said this after he himself having COVID. Compare that to what the former New Jersey governor, Chris Christie, said, a member of the president's debate prep team, after revealing yesterday he spent seven days in the ICU battling coronavirus.</s>FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTE (R-NH): I've been so careful, George, for seven months because of my asthma, wearing masks, washing my hands, social distancing. And for seven months, I was able to avoid the virus in one of the worst hit states in the country, in New Jersey. But I let my guard down. And it was wrong. It was just a big mistake.</s>SCIUTTO: He let his guard down at that White House event. Joining me now, Dr. Carlos del Rio, the Executive Associate Dean of Emory University School of Medicine. Dr. del Rio, always good to have you on this morning.</s>DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, EXECUTIVE ASSOCIATE DEAN, EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Good morning, Jim.</s>SCIUTTO: I want to play, because I want you to place into context for our viewers the importance of this. Another comment from Chris Christie, which, we remind folks, he was infected, he was at that White House event, he spent seven days in an ICU. He says the following, have a listen, about whether the White House contacted him to do contact tracing. Have a listen.</s>CHRISTIE: Well, I know there was no contact tracing done with me, George. My contact tracing was done by my local county board of health. They called me while I was in the hospital to contact trace and make sure they had all that information.</s>SCIUTTO: Now, White House officials claim that they did contact trace after that event. How credible is that claimed contact tracing if you don't comment someone who is very close to the present, who was infected, and, in fact, very sick from this virus?</s>DEL RIO: Well, I think, Jim, that contact tracing, in general, has failed in our country. I mean, the idea was, on theory, you'd test people, you find those that are infected and you rapidly go and find their contacts and either quarantine or contact, test them and try to stop transmission that way. But I would say, as a country, we have really failed in contact tracing. And I'm not surprised that the White House is part of that failure. Basically, we haven't done the job we need to do in contact tracing. And so as a result of that, we have not stopped the chains of transmission.</s>SCIUTTO: Well, it's a shame. It's a shame because all the science seems to show it would make a difference. On the question of whether he was tested the day of the debate. This is a very simple question with a simple answer, yes or no. White House doctors had refused to answer it, the president last night gave a sort of, I don't really know, maybe I did, maybe I didn't, I think, was his phrasing there. Given that we may have to accept the possibility or the fact that he was not tested that day. From a health care perspective, is that irresponsible?</s>DEL RIO: Well, I mean, I think it's -- we should know the day of the test. But I think the issue is, and I want to emphasize this to people, a negative test does not mean that you're not infected. And I think the White House then showed us that they did test for that event and then everybody took off their mask and then we had a super- spreader event. So I want to emphasize that rather than thinking the test as a preventative strategy, the test allows you to identify those that are infected. But if you're negative, that doesn't mean you're in the clear. And I think the important thing is people at the debate should have been wearing masks. I was very concerned when I saw that many people in his camp, when they sat down, took off their masks. And people, colleagues from the Cleveland Clinic, which was there at the debate, asked them to put on their mask and they refused. I think that's the part that I find irresponsible.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes, simple steps. And you see Chris Christie saying, listen, I let my guard down, right, and paid for it, in effect. Big picture question, if I can, here, because you're seeing a surge in the U.S., you're also seeing a surge in Europe in new infections. In countries that had gotten a better handle on this early on, a country such as Germany, given that, do you see the U.S. response comparatively as less of a failure, if you see what I mean here, in that both Europe and the U.S. are going through a big jump right now?</s>DEL RIO: No, I think so. And I think what this is telling us is that this virus is really tricky and really, really hard to control. And I think, as governor Chris Christie said, he let his guard down once and then he got infected, ended up in the ICU. And I'm glad he's fine but he could have easily died. I particularly like his statement. And on his statement, he says something that he's urging leaders, regardless of political affiliation, to urge every American to wear a mask. And that's what I would say. I think we need to continue urging everybody to wear a mask, to continue social distancing and to avoid places that are crowded. The surge in Europe is primarily driven by young people going to bars, to restaurants, to nightclubs, and I think going to those places that are crowded, that are close with not good air circulation and not wearing a mask is exactly how transmission is occurring. So we know how to stop transmission. It's hard. It is not easy. But I think we need to continue doing it because it also is very hard to see people sick and more importantly see people dying. We have an unacceptably high number of people have died in this country. And thought is -- the prediction is that by the end of the year, we will be close to half a million Americans having died from this virus.</s>SCIUTTO: And we know that masks help. And sad to see the president question that again last night on a big platform. Dr. Carlos del Rio, thanks very much.</s>DEL RIO: Thank you, Jim.</s>SCIUTTO: Well, Republican Senator Ben Sasse is not mincing his words, criticizing the president in a call with constituents. He's now issuing a dire warning as well about the GOP's chances in this upcoming election.</s>HARLOW: Also, a new devastating report shows the ongoing stimulus stalemate that is pushing millions of Americans -- millions more into poverty. And as the president refuses to directly condemn the fringe conspiracy group, QAnon, CNN speaks to the former supporter about the real life dangers of this.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't realize the nefarious kind of impact it was having on me because it was very insidious how it slowly disconnected me from reality.