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kanishka

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babylm2-subset

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Do you remember Fascist meetings?

They was never strong in , you'd think it would be in a place like this but they weren't.

Er I remember a debate, they'd two debates, there was one on the Market Square and there was one at the Cosmo, between the Black Shirts er and of course the Cosmo platform was open to anybody, didn't matter who they were, any shade of opinion.

Er no there was never never really active in .

The New Party made some members when they started, but when they turned themselves into the Fascist Party er they they rid of themselves of many of these er New Party peop , was in the New Party you know.

He was a very brilliant man you know.

His father was , editor of the Spectator, and there was a very you know, intelligent family really.

But he joined the New Party and so it er he spiked his guns for a long while.

Yes, now then, where are we going.

Talking about the the formation of the National Union.

Oh yes, aye, that's right.

So anyway I put in for this job and and there were people who who ought to have got it before me, er for instance er there was a councillor at er at , Tom , did you know Tom ?

Well he was a councillor at and a leader of the labour group on the Council at for ooh about thirty forty years.

His father before him was a fine man too, he was a prominent member of the Co-op.

And anyway he he was one of the candidates, but what I didn't know at that time there was a real feud between the women and the men.

Anything the men wanted the women would oppose, and vice versa.

So of course when Tom was put up and er there was about five of us put up for this job, they was all members of that union and I wasn't.

I was a member of the other union like the Hosiery Finishers.

But because all the men were supporting Tom all the women was in a vast majority was opposed to him and they'd vote for anybody, and it happened to be me you see.

They didn't know me.

And er I got, they'd got about twelve hundred members, and I think I got about a thousand , of course there weren't two of the men that knew and they voted.

Er and so I got the job like dead easy you see.

I've got an interesting point that I relate about this job that when I went to see them, about starting this job, they said, Well, they never told me before I got in, they said er, We've er we've got no money so we can't pay you a very good wage, but er we'll start you off with five pound a week, that's all we can afford, well I was earning more than that, during the War, nineteen forty two.

And so er I thought well I don't know, you know, I don't know

And so I said,saying to my wife, Well, I said er, I've got, I'm going to get involved in bus fares to and from office, and I'd got two kids at that time and I said er, I don't know when Anne said, Well no good, cos she was a good socialist and all, and says, Right, no good letting money stand in the road as it will get by.

Here, take it.

So I took it, for a drop you see.

But there were true to their word

Well we we formed the national union that comprised, have have you read any books on that , aye,formed that about nineteen forty forty five I should think, guess, that'll be it, about forty five.

And er then I left them in forty six and went back to me first love, and er it was a little self contained union.

I think it was one of the best in the country, and I'm I'm serious about that.

Not because I was there, but it was.

And then we had a wage structure that was second to none really.

We we had a cost of living bonus when it was practically unknown to have a cost of liv , which we'd had er er since er immediately after the First World War, nineteen nineteen time.

We had a cost of living bonus and er our wages rose with the cost of living er every month, not every year.

Every month, we got this cost of living, course it didn't er it didn't er fluctuate like it did in more recent years, but it was a safeguard and we always got increases on top of that like piece work increase and and er it it was a it was a good union, it you know.

With with we got innovations that no other union, not of it's size, ever had.

There was two thousand, we er you know was more than a union, it was it was a first class Friendly Society as well and it was friendly.

As a matter of fact er as the years went by we got this benevolent fund and we used to give all the old w as a mat we got a pension fund I know it don't sound much now, but at that time like during and just after the War we paid twelve and sixpence a week pension to all everybody who'd retired from the union after they'd done time, and we also gave them extra grants and took them on er you know outings until a time I said, Well we're spending all this money on outings, we could buy a bungalow at the seaside and let them all go you know pensioners go in their turn free.

And so we did this and we had this bungalow at Mablethorpe which is still running, we've been down, we went down a few weeks ago.

And the pensioners go down to this bungalow free, and it's in lovely spot and we gave something like two thousand pound for it.

And I was very friendly with the manager's secretary of the Co-op, Cyril at that time who was a big noise in , and er he furnished it for us at wholesale price you know and everything, they furnished the bungalow.

Put the carpets, put everything in and er and we paid for it and they still go ad now course the national union's taken it over but when we joined the national union there were two things that er I stipulated before we'd join.

And one was that this bungalow should be retained completely er by members of the Hosiery Finishers in spite of being a national union which of course has still operated, and secondly, that er nobody should go to this union until er er at least when I've finished that they should be voted for and they weren't going to impose anybody on this union, they'd vote for somebody from among their own members, which of course operated and that's operating now.

See.

And er I'll show you a little booklet I've got somewhere on that about the nation about his bungalow.

Which perhaps not revolutionary but to me it was er it was but of all these things that er we've done lots of things you know, but the thing that I, that stands out in my memory is is that er it'd be about nineteen forty eight, there was a a one of the old members who I worked with was, lived alone and he was very ill.

So I went to see him and the neighbour said to me, Well, I said, God it's cold, I said, Why ain't he got a fire?

She said, Well, she said, The truth is you know we keep bringing sticks in and that, but he's got no er he's got no fire, he's got no coal, he can't he can't make a fire.

You know there were only very few electrics, so I said, Well we've got this money in the benevolent fund.

So I ordered him a load of coal.

I went down to the straight away to the coal dealer and said, Take him a load of coal, and he took him.

Well I told the committee and they were delighted and so was I.

Er and that's one thing that stands out in my, of course he died, but the point is at least he died with a fire.

And er I think that's good you know.

I'm sentimental enough to think that's good, and er and er and lots of things like that you know but that th really stands out.

I remember the man very well and alone .

And I tell you one of my early recollections when I went to school, I'm going back now, was er across the way from where I lived, was a family and their name was , I remember the name although I'd only be about nine.

I remember their name.

I'd only be nine.

And er he and I know where he worked at Brass Foundry on Road, and he fell ill.

And he died.

And er of course there were no pension, no widow's pension, no nothing at all.

And so there was er old age pension, state, there was nothing then you know nothing at all.

And so er they had to go to the workhouse you see and I can see it now in this er this cobbled street and this er cab er drawn by a horse of course, hansom cab.

And I can see this er this woman with her three children go off to the workhouse and er they was crying but they were waving and then all the neighbours was out waving to them.

Now that's er er a recollection isn't it?

Going to the workhouse, yeah, this family, mm.

Do you do you remember ever ever having long periods of illness yourself?

At all?

I I I only had one one illness in my life until last year.

And er I had er in nineteen sixteen I had er what they called typhoid fever which now they call enteric fever you know.

I had s that for sixteen weeks.

And I never went to hospital because me cousin was a nurse who'd er you know got married and so she er proffered to nurse me which she did and er the then er health people in allowed me to stay at home because of this you see and I was at home and er that was in nineteen sixteen.

And that's the only illness I that I ever had.

And did you find it difficult managing without without the money, your parents?

Well me parents they got they was alright they, you know what I mean, they weren't wealthy but they they they were they'd always got enough to live on.

Me dad had got a decent job for them times, you know he, I think he got thirty bob a week which was a lot of money.

But he was alright you know what I mean with the, I never never really knew want, there were lots of things that I wanted and never got of course but I never really, I could never say I wanted, and I never went hungry, not even at any time, you know.

Did your mother work at all?

She worked at home, she used to make er bags, you know, er shopping bags, and she was a very good machinist and a remarkable cook and everything.

She could do anything, she was a wonderful woman.

And er a very devout Christian who never went to to er chapel like in her later years but she was, she was a good Christian lady.

Aye.

And she died of a cancer and er so did me father, and probably so shall I, but if a cancer don't kill me summat else will.

Erm you started work

at

yeah it's on, you started work at in nineteen thirteen.

That's right.

Er how did you go about getting the job?

Well jobs were weren't particularly hard to get in nineteen thirteen and er well in any case me father worked there and he'd worked there many years so i it was the normal thing that you usually followed your father like.

Although I wanted to go down the pit because you got more money you see.

In in those day

Nearly all my friends were down the pit.

Oh really?

Oh aye

Cos I I thought the the pit was quite well known for being a poor poor payer.

Well i i it wasn't so bad as where I er as when I went.

And they didn't work so many hours, I worked er I don't know whether I told you this last time but er I worked, my normal week was sixty six hours, sixty six hours for five shilling.

Was this when you started?