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I'd lay long odds that it was the other way around. Clinton didn't
just pull this plan out of any bodily orifices; the NSA has to have
been working on it for years. While it's possible that Denning (and
other prominent people) just happened to start arguing for such a
system, it seems more likely that there was a suggestion involved.
If this guess is wrong, I apologize. | 11 |
Try the folks at Dimolex Corp., La Crescenta, CA 91214.
Their number is (818) 957-7001. They make membrane keypads
that are very flat, in layouts from 2 to 128 keys. They
have standard models, tactile models (with stainless domes
under each key to make a 'click' you can feel), as well as
backlit models. Some of them can even be cut with scissors
to form a funky shape other than a rectangle. Many of the
models are available in a 'kit' which includes a bezel,
colored and plain key covers, and rub on lettering to make
your own layout. One piece prices aren't cheap, though,
as they want $10 for one four position pad *kit*, and $45
for a 40 position *kit*.
I have no affiliation with Dimolex or any company connected
with them. I *have* purchased a couple of keypads from them,
and am pleased with what I got. | 12 |
Are you (two) joking?
Is the entire Internet flaming you (two)?
Ahh!, now I remember that Ohmite company was the first introducing "the pink
colored resistor", only for electronics working females ;-) | 12 |
Are you suggesting that we should forget the cold-blooded genocide of
2.5 million Muslim people by the Armenians between 1914 and 1920? But
most people aren't aware that in 1939 Hitler said that he would pattern
his elimination of the Jews based upon what the Armenians did to Turkish
people in 1914.
'After all, who remembers today the extermination of the Tartars?'
(Adolf Hitler, August 22, 1939: Ruth W. Rosenbaum (Durusoy),
"The Turkish Holocaust - Turk Soykirimi", p. 213.)
I refer to the Turks and Kurds as history's forgotten people. It does
not serve our society well when most people are totally unaware of
what happened in 1914 where a vicious society, run by fascist Armenians,
decided to simply use the phoniest of pretexts as an excuse, for wiping
out a peace-loving, industrious, and very intelligent and productive
ethnic group. What we have is a demand from the fascist government of
x-Soviet Armenia to redress the wrongs that were done against our
people. And the only way we can do that is if we can catch hold of and
not lose sight of the historical precedence in this very century. We
cannot reverse the events of the past, but we can and we must strive to
keep the memory of this tragedy alive on this side of the Atlantic, so as
to help prevent a recurrence of the extermination of a people because
of their religion or their race. Which means that I support the claims
of the Turks and Kurds to return to their lands in x-Soviet Armenia,
to determine their own future as a nation in their own homeland.
Serdar Argic | 17 |
For Sale:
Intel 96oo Baud Modem
External
V32/V42bis
Very Good Working Condition
Never had any problems
$160 oBo
Leave daytime number for fastest response.
| 6 |
[reply to keith@actrix.gen.nz (Keith Stewart)]
It would help if you (and anyone else asking for medical information on
some subject) could ask specific questions, as no one is likely to type
in a textbook chapter covering all aspects of the subject. If you are
looking for a comprehensive review, ask your local hospital librarian.
Most are happy to help with a request of this sort.
Briefly, this is a condition in which patients who have significant
residual weakness from childhood polio notice progression of the
weakness as they get older. One theory is that the remaining motor
neurons have to work harder and so die sooner. | 13 |
Ok, someone is fundamentalist, someone else is not.
What defines a fundamentalist (Not who!!!!!!!!!).
That is an essential question which nobody has agreed upon an answer,
at least to what literature / discussion / news i've seen..
| 17 |
This is similar to my saying that Clinton's timber summit does little to
fix the health care problem. Look at the whole picture, not just
randomly picked libertarian positions. If government is not allowed to
use "non-initiated force" to achieve its goals, than no special interest
can influence the government to use non-initiated force on their behalf.
The means to reaching such a restricted government is another topic
which I'll address briefly. It certainly won't happen until
libertarianism is the dominate philosophy. What means do we have to
make libertarianism the dominate philosophy? Statists run the education
monopoly, so we have to be creative. The Advocates for Self-Government
reports 85% of their Seminar 1 participants "embrace" libertarianism.
That's the best means I've seen yet. We should lobby for compulsory
Seminar 1 attendance. :) [in jest!]
Roger Collins | 18 |
Hello everybody,
I hope that I insert the right Options, so that my question is only
distributed through out Germany, because my question is more or less
country dependend.
Now the question:
Is there anybody who can tell my if (and of course where) there is
a ftp-site/archie (or whatever) where DIN fonts for X are available.
I am looking for fonts holding the specification:
DIN 16
DIN 6776
DIN V 40950
Thanks in advance
Juergen Schietke
Research Insitute for Discrete Mathematics
University of Bonn
Nassestr. 2
5300 Bonn 1 (Germany) | 5 |
Please define "morally straight".
And, don't even try saying that "straight", as it is used here,
implies only hetersexual behavior. [ eg: "straight" as in the slang word
opposite to "gay" ]
This is alot like "family values". Everyone is talking about them,
but misteriously, no one knows what they are.
---
"One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that
say "Mom", because of the love of their mom. It makes for more
virile men."
Bobby Mozumder ( snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu )
April 4, 1993 | 0 |
I loved the ABC coverage. The production was excellent. The appearance
was excellent. It had a sleek modern look. This was the first time I heard
Thorne & Clement & I thought they were great. My only request is to leave
Al Micheals out of this. He annoys me.
I'm hoping this leads to a regular-season contract. My guess would
be is that it will be roughly a weekly game from Feb.-April and then the
playoffs. I envy you Canadians with your TSN & CBC. Maybe I'll get a dish
to pick up Canadian TV. How much are those things, BTW?
| 10 |
Sorry, I should have been more specific. The 750 SS ran the quater in
12.10 @ 108.17. The last small V-twin Duc we got in the US (and the 400 is
a Pantah based V-twin) was the 500SL Pantah, and it ran a creditable 13.0 @
103. Modern carbs and what not should put the 400 in the high 12s at 105.
BTW, FZR 400s ran mid 12s, and the latest crop of Japanese 400s will out
run that. It's hard to remember, but but a new GOOF2 will clobber an old
KZ1000 handily, both in top end and roll-on. Technology stands still for
no-one...
| 8 |
Proven? Maybe not. But it can certainly be verified beyond a reasonable doubt. This
statement and statements like it are a matter of public record. Before the Six Day War (1967)
I think Nasser and some other Arab leaders were broadcasting these statements on
Arab radio. You might want to check out some old newspapers Ahmed.
I think if you take a look at the Hamas covenant (written in 1988) you might get a
different impression. I have the convenant in the original arabic with a translation
that I've verified with Arabic speakers. The document is rife with calls to kill jews
and spread Islam and so forth. | 17 |
No, they didn't have electrical power, but no, I don't find the idea of
Davidians calmly cooking lunch with gas masks on as the FBI knocks the
buildings down very credible,either.
It's not like this whole discussion is relevant. It started when some-
one made the wholly unsubstantiated allegation that the wood stove ig-
nited NAPALM the FBI shot into the buildings.
I'm not a groveling apoligist for the feds, far from it. But wild ac-
cusations like this are ridiculous and obfuscate legitimate criticism of
their conduct in this whole affair. | 16 |
Sorry for wasting your time with a probably simple question, but I'm not
an computer graphic expert. I want to read TIFF-Files with a PASCAL-program.
The problem is, that the files I want to read are in compressed form
( code 1, e.g. Huffman ). All books & articles I found describe only the
plain (uncompressed) format. I don't know where to get the original
TIFF specification, furthermore I haven't any access to a realy complete
library. Can anybody direct me to a good book or (even better) to an
specification available via ftp ?
Thanks in advance - Thomas Wolf | 1 |
: >: > Last year the US suffered almost 10,000 wrongful or accidental
: >: > deaths by handguns alone (FBI statistics). In the same year, the UK
: >: > suffered 35 such deaths (Scotland Yard statistics). The population
: >: > of the UK is about 1/5 that of the US (10,000 / (35 * 5)). Weighted
: >: > for population, the US has 57x as many handgun-related deaths as the
: >: > UK. And, no, the Brits don't make up for this by murdering 57x as
: >: > many people with baseball bats.
: [snip]
: If you examine the figures, they do. Stabbing is favourite, closely
: followed by striking, punching, kicking. Many more people are burnt to
: death in Britain as are shot to death. Take at look and you'll see for
: yourself.
It means that very few people are shot to death in Great Britain. | 16 |
: Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in favor of
: doing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of graphics by reading
: this group, from code to hardware to algorithms. I just think making 5
: different groups out of this is a wate, and will only result in a few posts
: a week per group. I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum
: for discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way?
: Just curious.
:
:
: Daemon
:
Yes. I also like knowing where to go to ask a question without getting
hell for putting it in the wrong newsgroup. | 1 |
I wouldn't trust Mitre for another reason:
remember "The Cuckoo's Egg"? How great was
their security, eh?
NSA - well, with the list of known "turncoats",
does it make you wonder how many more unknown
still are there?
(:-) (:-(
--
Regards,
Uri. uri@watson.ibm.com scifi!angmar!uri | 11 |
From the article "What's New" Apr-16-93 in sci.physics.research:
........
WHAT'S NEW (in my opinion), Friday, 16 April 1993 Washington, DC
1. SPACE BILLBOARDS! IS THIS ONE THE "SPINOFFS" WE WERE PROMISED?
In 1950, science fiction writer Robert Heinlein published "The
Man Who Sold the Moon," which involved a dispute over the sale of
rights to the Moon for use as billboard. NASA has taken the firsteps toward this
hideous vision of the future. Observers were
startled this spring when a NASA launch vehicle arrived at the
pad with "SCHWARZENEGGER" painted in huge block letters on the
side of the booster rockets. Space Marketing Inc. had arranged
for the ad to promote Arnold's latest movie. Now, Space Marketing
is working with University of Colorado and Livermore engineers on
a plan to place a mile-long inflatable billboard in low-earth
orbit. NASA would provide contractual launch services. However,
since NASA bases its charge on seriously flawed cost estimates
(WN 26 Mar 93) the taxpayers would bear most of the expense. This
may look like environmental vandalism, but Mike Lawson, CEO of
Space Marketing, told us yesterday that the real purpose of the
project is to help the environment! The platform will carry ozone
monitors he explained--advertising is just to help defray costs.
..........
What do you think of this revolting and hideous attempt to vandalize
the night sky? It is not even April 1 anymore.
What about light pollution in observations? (I read somewhere else that
it might even be visible during the day, leave alone at night).
Is NASA really supporting this junk?
Are protesting groups being organized in the States?
Really, really depressed.
Enzo | 14 |
7 |
|
Hi,
I just bought a Mitsumi CD-ROM drive and a SB Pro soundcard. The pin outs on
the CD-ROM line-out and the SB Pro CD-IN are not the same. I am considering
taking the RCA output jacks on the Mitsumi interface card and routing them to
the line-in input on the SB Pro. Will this work with multi-media software
that uses the CD-ROM and the SB Pro or do I need to go to the CD-IN pins on
the SB-Pro.
Thanks,
John
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | 3 |
[...Dr. England's story deleted, it was a nice read the first time
through...]]
It isn't so much a matter of 'interpretation' of Bible texts
that sets Mormonism apart from orthodoxy as it is a matter of
*fabrication*.
About 20 years ago, _National Lampoon_ had some comic strips
in them that were drawn by Neal Adams. They were called "Son o' God" comics.
It was a parody of the Jesus in the Bible. In the comic, there were a
group of thirteen Jewish kids from Brooklyn, and when one of them said
the magic word, he turned into "Son o' God." He went from a myopic,
curly headed, yarmulke wearing boy to a replica of the stylizied
portraits of Jesus --- with long flowing brown hair and gentile
features.
Now, if someone were to profess faith in this NatLamp Jesus,
and claim that they were a Christian because they believed in this
NatLamp Jesus, we would have to say that this was fallacious since
this Jesus was a fabrication, and did not really exist.
This is the exact same thing that the LDS do when they claim
that they are Christian. They profess faith in Jesus, but the Jesus
that they profess to have faith in is as much a fabrication as the
NatLamp Jesus was.
| 19 |
subscribe min@stella.skku.ac.kr
| 5 |
SP> From: paulson@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (Sharon Paulson)
SP> to describe here. I have a fourteen year old daugter who experienced
SP> a seizure on November 3, 1992 at 6:45AM after eating Kellog's Frosted
SP> Flakes.
SP> Well, we were going along fine and the other morning, April 5, she had
SP> a bowl of another Kellog's frosted kind of cereal, Fruit Loops (I am
SP> When I mentioned what she ate the first time as a possible reason for
SP> the seizure the neurologist basically negated that as an idea. Now
SP> after this second episode, so similar in nature to the first, even
SP> he is scratching his head.
There's no data that sugar-coated cereals cause seizures. I haven't
even seen anything anecdotal on it. Given how common they are eaten
- do you know any child or adolescent who *doesn't* eat the stuff? -
I think that if there were a relationship we would know it by now.
Also, there's nothing weird in those cereals. As far as the brain
is concerned (except for a few infantile metabolic disorders such as
galactosemia), sugar is sugar, regardless if it is coated on cereal,
sprinkled onto cereal, or dissolved in soda, coffee or whatever.
There was some interest a few years ago in aspartame lowering
seizure thresholds, but I don't believe anything ever came of it. | 13 |
This game would have been great as part of a double-header on ABC or
ESPN; the league would have been able to push back-to-back wins by
Le Magnifique and The Great One. Unfortunately, the only network
that would have done that was SCA, seen in few areas and hard to
justify as a pay channel. )-;
gld | 10 |
I am a novice (at best) in working with pc networks, and am in the
process of planning a small accounting system for a small business.
The particular need in this case is for three machines, each in a
different office of the same building, each having access to a
Windows-based accounting system.
My first thought is to set up MS Windows for Workgroups on each of the
machines (likely a 486 and two 386's) along with the appropriate Ethernet
cards and cabling that come with the Windows for Workgroups starter kit (one
additional user kit will be necessary). It then seems logical to purchase
a simple multi-user accounting system, along the lines of DacEasy or
M.Y.O.B., and fire it all up! The 486 will more or less act as server with
a report/check printer attached to it.
Cable runs of 30-40 feet will be necessary for this setup.
Well, this all seems too easy to me. Would any of you network gurus out
there tell me if I am out of my mind here? Any and all suggestions, however
trivial, will be immensely appreciated. My apologies if this has been
brought up before.
Thanks!
John
--
John E. Martin jemartin@nyx.cs.du.edu University of Puget Sound '92
Kent, WA (formerly martin@ups.edu) SeinfeldSuperSonicsRushBelaFleck | 2 |
Yup. I agree with ya. I think Devils can beat Red Wings easily. SO I think
all those who send in their votes should try all these diffrent teams
before voting. I think Islanders and Quebec are much better then I had
expected.
COBRA
| 10 |
14 |
|
I addressed most of the key issues in this very long (284 lines) post
by Dean Kaflowitz in two posts yesterday. The first was made into the
title post of a new thread, "Is Dean Kaflowitz terminally irony-impaired?"
and the second, more serious one appeared along the thread
"A Chaney Post, and a Challenge, reissued and revised"
both only in talk.abortion, but I am posting its contents into
talk.religion.misc as soon as I exit here.
This should be enough for us to thrash out for the next week or so. The
second post really grapples with the main bones of contention between us.
The first is more lighthearted and tells about such things as
KaflowitzDebatingPoints [tm], which he continues to rack up on both
talk.abortion and talk.religion.misc, while setting follow-ups to
talk.abortion alone. His lame excuse for the latter policy is that
he gets a prompt as to where to set follow-ups, and does not follow
talk.religion.misc much; this suggests that he is being hypocritical in not
also setting his Newsgroups line to talk.abortion alone. | 19 |
They are illegal here in Manitoba as well though I don't know what
methods are used to detect them.
It has always amazed me with the way the laws work. It is not illegal to
sell them here in Manitoba, only to have them within a vehicle. (Last I
heard, they don't have to be installed to be illegal.) | 12 |
Bubblejets often splatter a little bit, whereas LaserJets (given half-way decent
toner, like HP's "Microfine" stuff) don't. Both produce very good output,
but you don't have to look too closely at the two to tell that LaserJet
output is definitely superior.
On the other hand, LaserJets which haven't been maintained properly and use
the cheapest toner the owner could find often produce awful output, much
worse than a bubblejet. :-)
One other thing... there are bubblejets, and then there are BubbleJets.
There are a few bubblejets out there that produce rather mediocre output
(such as HP's dinky little BubbleJet), whereas most produce really good
looking output (such as HP's DeskJets). IBM and Canon both produce some of
the really good style bubblejets.
---Joel Kolstad | 12 |
.
.
.
Are you sure about this? I'm currently looking at a copy of last
Thursday's SF Chronicle and there is the typical one column Traders
ad on page C7 in the Sports section. Not only that, but there is
a part in the middle which rather prominently says "WANTED: We pay
cash for assault rifles and pistols.". Granted, I haven't seen today's
paper yet. But I'd be surprised if there wasn't a Traders ad in it.
It's probably worth it to write to the Chronicle (and other papers)
anyway, because all their anti-gun editorials are disgusting.
By the way, let me put in a plug for Traders. I have shopped all
over the SF Bay Area and I have never seen another store with lower
prices. And their selection is amazing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Lee Gaucher | My opinions.
gaucher@sam.cchem.berkeley.edu | No one else's. | 16 |
Sorry I can't help you with your question, but I do have a comment to
make concerning aftermarket A/C units. I have a Frost-King or Frost-Temp
(forget which) aftermarket unit on my Cavalier, and am quite unhappy with
it. The fan is noisy, and doesn't put out much air. I will never have
an aftermarket A/C installed in any of my vehicles again. I just can't
trust the quality and performance after this experience.
- les
| 7 |
Peter,
I believe this is your most succinct post to date. Since you have nothing
to say, you say nothing! It's brilliant. Did you think of this all by
yourself?
-marc | 17 |
The little blue roller on the trackball interior is probably rubbing
against its support, just push it down the pin so that it no longer
touches it. I had a similar problem. | 4 |
It is told in the Gospels that the Pharisees (sp.?) and scribes bribed
the Roman soldiers to say that the Diciples stole his body in the night.
Good enough excuse for the Jewish and Roman objectives (of that day). | 15 |
Hmmm. These don't look like references to me. Is passive-aggressive
behavior associated with weight rebound? :-) | 13 |
Does anyone work with the A/ROSE card?
We have the problem that after certain crashes the card disappears from the
system, and lets crash the Mac then.
Okay, we don't use the card quite like one should, because we simulate
errors in the 68000. Before every instruction some specified registers are
masked, eg. to simulate a stuck-at-1-error in certain bits.
Normally, the "crash instance" of A/ROSE notices a crash, sets a flag and
stops working. By reading the mentioned flag the Mac can notice a card
crash. That works fine for almost all crashes, but as said, sometimes the
card doesn't set the flag and disappears from the system.
The documentation of A/ROSE does not tell us anything about its behavior
when crashing, and so at the moment we are trying to understand by analyzing
the assembler code, and that's both frustrating and lengthy.
So, can anyone help?
Please only reply via email, as I don't read this group.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
_ Department of Computer Science IV
/ \ |\/| University of Dortmund, Germany
\_/laf | |aennig e-mail: maennig@veronica.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the beginning God created Adam ... ahem! ... atoms. Atoms of hydrogen." | 4 |
I don't think they're paying for it.
Useful? I find his estimate of the annual value to law enforcement
of $5 million quite useful, if rough (e.g. wiretaps may be
preferentially used on otherwise-hard-to-catch criminals, resulting
in an underestimate). This comes to twenty cents a head over the
U.S. population. I would find some rigorous numbers on this quite
useful -- it would make for nice slogans: "Your privacy is worth
$0.37", or whatever it turns out to be.
| 11 |
No chance. If that CS ignited at all, it would have been
quite similar to a grain bin explosion. Explosion, I note. The
entire compound would have been leveled, not merely burned. As
there was no explosion, there was no CS ignition causing the fire.
Note: at five miles a decent grain elevator explosion will
knock you on your butt and your ears will ring for days. I speak
from experience here. | 16 |
Sjogren's syndrome has been known to induce dryness in vaginal tissue as well
as induce primary biliary cirrhosis. Otherwise the abdominal swelling could be
due to a complication of Sjogren's known as pseudolymphoma which *can* produce
a splenomegaly (enlarged spleen). She should definitely see a rheumatologist.
Since you don't mention skin disorder, anemia, or joint pain you'd probably
rule out erythema nodosum or scleroderma.
Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL
| 13 |
Now we have strong evidence of where the CPR really stands.
Unbelievable and disgusting. It only proves that we must
never forget...
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not so unconventional. Eugenic solutions to the Jewish Problem
have been suggested by Northern Europeans in the past.
Eugenics: a science that deals with the improvement (as by
control of human mating) of hereditory qualities of race
or breed. -- Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary.
This is nothing more than Feisal Husseini's statement that the
Zionist entity must be disolved by forcing it to "engage" the
surrounding "normal" Arab society.
"a strong mixed stock", "integration of Israeli society into
the Middle East in a graceful manner," these are the phrases
of Nazi racial engineering pure and simple. As if Israeli
society has no right to exist per se!
"the continued existance of a specific Jewish People overrides
any other consideration, be it human love, peace of human
rights." Disolve the Jewish People and protect human values
such as love and peace; yes ve have heard this before Her Himmler.
Notice how the source of the problem seems to be accruing to
the Jews in this analysis. Ya, Der Spiegal ist a gut sourcen...
Nice attempt to mix in a slam against U.S. aid to Israel.
Critical comment: you can take the Nazi flag and Holocaust photos
off of your bedroom wall, Elias; you'll never succeed.
-- Chris Metcalfe
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 17 |
Archive-name: atheism/resources
Alt-atheism-archive-name: resources
Last-modified: 11 December 1992
Version: 1.0
Atheist Resources
Addresses of Atheist Organizations
USA
FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION
Darwin fish bumper stickers and assorted other atheist paraphernalia are
available from the Freedom From Religion Foundation in the US.
Write to: FFRF, P.O. Box 750, Madison, WI 53701.
Telephone: (608) 256-8900
EVOLUTION DESIGNS
Evolution Designs sell the "Darwin fish". It's a fish symbol, like the ones
Christians stick on their cars, but with feet and the word "Darwin" written
inside. The deluxe moulded 3D plastic fish is $4.95 postpaid in the US.
Write to: Evolution Designs, 7119 Laurel Canyon #4, North Hollywood,
CA 91605.
People in the San Francisco Bay area can get Darwin Fish from Lynn Gold --
try mailing <figmo@netcom.com>. For net people who go to Lynn directly, the
price is $4.95 per fish.
AMERICAN ATHEIST PRESS
AAP publish various atheist books -- critiques of the Bible, lists of
Biblical contradictions, and so on. One such book is:
"The Bible Handbook" by W.P. Ball and G.W. Foote. American Atheist Press.
372 pp. ISBN 0-910309-26-4, 2nd edition, 1986. Bible contradictions,
absurdities, atrocities, immoralities... contains Ball, Foote: "The Bible
Contradicts Itself", AAP. Based on the King James version of the Bible.
Write to: American Atheist Press, P.O. Box 140195, Austin, TX 78714-0195.
or: 7215 Cameron Road, Austin, TX 78752-2973.
Telephone: (512) 458-1244
Fax: (512) 467-9525
PROMETHEUS BOOKS
Sell books including Haught's "Holy Horrors" (see below).
Write to: 700 East Amherst Street, Buffalo, New York 14215.
Telephone: (716) 837-2475.
An alternate address (which may be newer or older) is:
Prometheus Books, 59 Glenn Drive, Buffalo, NY 14228-2197.
AFRICAN-AMERICANS FOR HUMANISM
An organization promoting black secular humanism and uncovering the history of
black freethought. They publish a quarterly newsletter, AAH EXAMINER.
Write to: Norm R. Allen, Jr., African Americans for Humanism, P.O. Box 664,
Buffalo, NY 14226.
United Kingdom
Rationalist Press Association National Secular Society
88 Islington High Street 702 Holloway Road
London N1 8EW London N19 3NL
071 226 7251 071 272 1266
British Humanist Association South Place Ethical Society
14 Lamb's Conduit Passage Conway Hall
London WC1R 4RH Red Lion Square
071 430 0908 London WC1R 4RL
fax 071 430 1271 071 831 7723
The National Secular Society publish "The Freethinker", a monthly magazine
founded in 1881.
Germany
IBKA e.V.
Internationaler Bund der Konfessionslosen und Atheisten
Postfach 880, D-1000 Berlin 41. Germany.
IBKA publish a journal:
MIZ. (Materialien und Informationen zur Zeit. Politisches
Journal der Konfessionslosesn und Atheisten. Hrsg. IBKA e.V.)
MIZ-Vertrieb, Postfach 880, D-1000 Berlin 41. Germany.
For atheist books, write to:
IBDK, Internationaler B"ucherdienst der Konfessionslosen
Postfach 3005, D-3000 Hannover 1. Germany.
Telephone: 0511/211216
Books -- Fiction
THOMAS M. DISCH
"The Santa Claus Compromise"
Short story. The ultimate proof that Santa exists. All characters and
events are fictitious. Any similarity to living or dead gods -- uh, well...
WALTER M. MILLER, JR
"A Canticle for Leibowitz"
One gem in this post atomic doomsday novel is the monks who spent their lives
copying blueprints from "Saint Leibowitz", filling the sheets of paper with
ink and leaving white lines and letters.
EDGAR PANGBORN
"Davy"
Post atomic doomsday novel set in clerical states. The church, for example,
forbids that anyone "produce, describe or use any substance containing...
atoms".
PHILIP K. DICK
Philip K. Dick Dick wrote many philosophical and thought-provoking short
stories and novels. His stories are bizarre at times, but very approachable.
He wrote mainly SF, but he wrote about people, truth and religion rather than
technology. Although he often believed that he had met some sort of God, he
remained sceptical. Amongst his novels, the following are of some relevance:
"Galactic Pot-Healer"
A fallible alien deity summons a group of Earth craftsmen and women to a
remote planet to raise a giant cathedral from beneath the oceans. When the
deity begins to demand faith from the earthers, pot-healer Joe Fernwright is
unable to comply. A polished, ironic and amusing novel.
"A Maze of Death"
Noteworthy for its description of a technology-based religion.
"VALIS"
The schizophrenic hero searches for the hidden mysteries of Gnostic
Christianity after reality is fired into his brain by a pink laser beam of
unknown but possibly divine origin. He is accompanied by his dogmatic and
dismissively atheist friend and assorted other odd characters.
"The Divine Invasion"
God invades Earth by making a young woman pregnant as she returns from
another star system. Unfortunately she is terminally ill, and must be
assisted by a dead man whose brain is wired to 24-hour easy listening music.
MARGARET ATWOOD
"The Handmaid's Tale"
A story based on the premise that the US Congress is mysteriously
assassinated, and fundamentalists quickly take charge of the nation to set it
"right" again. The book is the diary of a woman's life as she tries to live
under the new Christian theocracy. Women's right to own property is revoked,
and their bank accounts are closed; sinful luxuries are outlawed, and the
radio is only used for readings from the Bible. Crimes are punished
retroactively: doctors who performed legal abortions in the "old world" are
hunted down and hanged. Atwood's writing style is difficult to get used to
at first, but the tale grows more and more chilling as it goes on.
VARIOUS AUTHORS
"The Bible"
This somewhat dull and rambling work has often been criticized. However, it
is probably worth reading, if only so that you'll know what all the fuss is
about. It exists in many different versions, so make sure you get the one
true version.
Books -- Non-fiction
PETER DE ROSA
"Vicars of Christ", Bantam Press, 1988
Although de Rosa seems to be Christian or even Catholic this is a very
enlighting history of papal immoralities, adulteries, fallacies etc.
(German translation: "Gottes erste Diener. Die dunkle Seite des Papsttums",
Droemer-Knaur, 1989)
MICHAEL MARTIN
"Atheism: A Philosophical Justification", Temple University Press,
Philadelphia, USA.
A detailed and scholarly justification of atheism. Contains an outstanding
appendix defining terminology and usage in this (necessarily) tendentious
area. Argues both for "negative atheism" (i.e. the "non-belief in the
existence of god(s)") and also for "positive atheism" ("the belief in the
non-existence of god(s)"). Includes great refutations of the most
challenging arguments for god; particular attention is paid to refuting
contempory theists such as Platinga and Swinburne.
541 pages. ISBN 0-87722-642-3 (hardcover; paperback also available)
"The Case Against Christianity", Temple University Press
A comprehensive critique of Christianity, in which he considers
the best contemporary defences of Christianity and (ultimately)
demonstrates that they are unsupportable and/or incoherent.
273 pages. ISBN 0-87722-767-5
JAMES TURNER
"Without God, Without Creed", The Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore,
MD, USA
Subtitled "The Origins of Unbelief in America". Examines the way in which
unbelief (whether agnostic or atheistic) became a mainstream alternative
world-view. Focusses on the period 1770-1900, and while considering France
and Britain the emphasis is on American, and particularly New England
developments. "Neither a religious history of secularization or atheism,
Without God, Without Creed is, rather, the intellectual history of the fate
of a single idea, the belief that God exists."
316 pages. ISBN (hardcover) 0-8018-2494-X (paper) 0-8018-3407-4
GEORGE SELDES (Editor)
"The great thoughts", Ballantine Books, New York, USA
A "dictionary of quotations" of a different kind, concentrating on statements
and writings which, explicitly or implicitly, present the person's philosophy
and world-view. Includes obscure (and often suppressed) opinions from many
people. For some popular observations, traces the way in which various
people expressed and twisted the idea over the centuries. Quite a number of
the quotations are derived from Cardiff's "What Great Men Think of Religion"
and Noyes' "Views of Religion".
490 pages. ISBN (paper) 0-345-29887-X.
RICHARD SWINBURNE
"The Existence of God (Revised Edition)", Clarendon Paperbacks, Oxford
This book is the second volume in a trilogy that began with "The Coherence of
Theism" (1977) and was concluded with "Faith and Reason" (1981). In this
work, Swinburne attempts to construct a series of inductive arguments for the
existence of God. His arguments, which are somewhat tendentious and rely
upon the imputation of late 20th century western Christian values and
aesthetics to a God which is supposedly as simple as can be conceived, were
decisively rejected in Mackie's "The Miracle of Theism". In the revised
edition of "The Existence of God", Swinburne includes an Appendix in which he
makes a somewhat incoherent attempt to rebut Mackie.
J. L. MACKIE
"The Miracle of Theism", Oxford
This (posthumous) volume contains a comprehensive review of the principal
arguments for and against the existence of God. It ranges from the classical
philosophical positions of Descartes, Anselm, Berkeley, Hume et al, through
the moral arguments of Newman, Kant and Sidgwick, to the recent restatements
of the classical theses by Plantinga and Swinburne. It also addresses those
positions which push the concept of God beyond the realm of the rational,
such as those of Kierkegaard, Kung and Philips, as well as "replacements for
God" such as Lelie's axiarchism. The book is a delight to read - less
formalistic and better written than Martin's works, and refreshingly direct
when compared with the hand-waving of Swinburne.
JAMES A. HAUGHT
"Holy Horrors: An Illustrated History of Religious Murder and Madness",
Prometheus Books
Looks at religious persecution from ancient times to the present day -- and
not only by Christians.
Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 89-64079. 1990.
NORM R. ALLEN, JR.
"African American Humanism: an Anthology"
See the listing for African Americans for Humanism above.
GORDON STEIN
"An Anthology of Atheism and Rationalism", Prometheus Books
An anthology covering a wide range of subjects, including 'The Devil, Evil
and Morality' and 'The History of Freethought'. Comprehensive bibliography.
EDMUND D. COHEN
"The Mind of The Bible-Believer", Prometheus Books
A study of why people become Christian fundamentalists, and what effect it
has on them.
Net Resources
There's a small mail-based archive server at mantis.co.uk which carries
archives of old alt.atheism.moderated articles and assorted other files. For
more information, send mail to archive-server@mantis.co.uk saying
help
send atheism/index
and it will mail back a reply.
| 0 |
I am looking for the latest drivers for the Actix graphics accelerator card.
The driver I am currently using is version 1.21 and doesn't support more
than 256 colors in 1024x768 mode even you have 2MB memory.
The BBS support for Actix is unbelievable! They are still using 2400bps
modem! It will take you hours to download the drivers, it hurts when you
are calling long distance. Is there any ftp site that has a collection
of video drivers for windows?
BTW, anyone using this card, and how do you like it so far?
Thanks.
--
Daniel Y.H. Wong UofT:(416)978-1659
wongda@picton.eecg.toronto.edu Electrical Engineering | 2 |
I have a 1986 Acura Integra 5 speed with 95,000 miles on it. It is positively
the worst car I have ever owned. I had an 83 Prelude that had 160k miles on
it when I sold it, and it was still going strong . This is with religious
attention to maintenance such as oil changes etc. Both cars were driven in
exactly the same manner..
1. It has gone through two clutches (which are underrated.)
2. 3 sets of tires (really eats tires in the front even with careful align)
3. All struts started leaking about 25-30k miles
4. Windshield wiper motor burned up (service note on this one)
5. Seek stop working on radio about 20k miles
6. Two timing belts.
7. Constant error signals from computer.
8. And finally. A rod bearing went out on the No. 1 piston seriously damaging
the crankshaft, contaminating the engine etc. When the overhaul was done
last week it required new crankshaft, one new cam shaft (has two) because
the camshaft shattered when they tried to mill it. The camshaft took 4
weeks to get because it is on national back order.
Everything on the engine is unique to the 1986 year. They went to a new
design in 87. Parts are very expensive. | 7 |
(hudson)
(me)
/(hudson)
/So. Why is someone elses will such a big deal if morality is all relative.
I don't believe I ever said that morality was all relative.
What I said was that I can make my mind up on my own, thank you, and that
you don't have the right to tell others what to think.
I think that you will find that in most moral systems, there is
a respect for human life and the dignity of the person. It is all the
stuff besides these points that forms the core of the disagreement between
primitive moral absolutists like yourself and the rest of us.
/(hudson)
/Maybe (the insane lover of pain might reason) if other people experienced
/enough pain, they might learn to enjoy it, too.
Fine. There is still the clinical definition of crazy. And this also
involves a violation of free will, because the insane lover of your
little example would be inflicting pain on a non-willing subject.
Try again.
(hudson)
(me)
/(hudson)
/You have to have some sort of premise about choice or self-awareness.
No, you do not. I demonstrated to you the example of the football
team which doesn't require premises about freedom of choice or
sentience/self-awareness. | 19 |
You know, everybody scoffed at that guy they hung up on a cross too.
He claimed also to be the son of God; and it took almost two thousand
years to forget what he preached.
Love thy neighbor as thyself.
Anybody else wonder if those two guys setting the fires were 'agent
provacateurs.'
| 19 |
Yeah, do you expect people to read the FAQ, etc. and actually accept hard
atheism? No, you need a little leap of faith, Jimmy. Your logic runs out
of steam!
Jim,
Sorry I can't pity you, Jim. And I'm sorry that you have these feelings of
denial about the faith you need to get by. Oh well, just pretend that it will
all end happily ever after anyway. Maybe if you start a new newsgroup,
alt.atheist.hard, you won't be bummin' so much?
Bye-Bye, Big Jim. Don't forget your Flintstone's Chewables! :)
--
Bake Timmons, III | 0 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The "used to kill" is the heart of the misinformation. It's one
of those technically accurate phrasings that conveys the wrong impression.
What Mr. Quiqley is more than aware of, I'm sure, is that when people
read this they think violent arguments where one member of the family
grabs a gun and shoots another, thereby creating a tragic situation
which could easily have been avoided had the gun not been there, or
a tragic accident, especially involving a child.
Unfortunately, that's not the way things stack up. The majority
of that 43 "times" (37 I believe) are suicides. That is, someone
intentionally took a firearm and shot themselves intending to kill
themselves. And why it's popular to try and blame suicides on guns,
the evidence doesn't support this. Internal studies, as well as
comparative studies with other countries, indicate that cultural
factors far outweigh whether a person will kill themselves or not.
(Japan, for instance, has a slightly higher rate than the U.S. There
people jump off buildings.)
According to the National Crime Survey, 40% of violent crime
is commited by "non-strangers," which mistakenly has been generalized
regarding the King County study to mean, "Friends and family." That
is, Mr. Quigley, and others who quote this statistic, are banking on
the mental image that a "Friend, family member, or child," equates
to a loving relationship, and that it was cut short in a moment of
anger. Unfortunately, all too often husbands beat and kill wives,
children assault parents, or vice-versa. Most rapes are commited by
someone known to the victim, for instance. Essentially, that a gun
was used against a "friend" or family member doesn't mean they
weren't trying to hurt the other person. Crime is highest among
poor urban families, and those are also the areas most "at risk"
for family problems, especially violent ones. A son in a gang may
not be as loving toward his parents if they disapprove than a suburban
kid might.
Finally, it hinges on the fallacy that a dead intruder is the
only value of a self-defense firearm. Using the minimum figures I
worked out using the NCS I got about an 80:1 ratio between deadly
self-defenses (justifiable homicides) and with-gun self-defenses.
Between the FBI Uniform Crime report and the NCS there's an enormous
amount of data and anybody with the calculator can crunch the numbers.
As such it is incorrect to assume that a dead body is the only valid
means of determining the success of such a defense, since according
to the NCS (which has been considered by many to seriously under-report
defenses) there were far more successful with-gun defenses than intruders
killed.
Not it also confines itself to the home, where attack by a "friend
or family member" is far, far more likely, and excludes any defense
which occurs outside the home. (I believe a large number occur in
businesses.)
I have not seen the exact data for this, so I can't comment. I
will point out Canada's and Japan's suicide rate as indications that
culture far more than firearm availability affect suicide rates.
There was also a comparative study between Canada (for what
it's worth, considering the difficulty of comparing across cultural
lines) published in the New England Journal of Medicine (I can get the
exact cite if you need it) that concluded that restrictive firearm laws
would not significantly impact the over-all suicide rate.
| 16 |
Does anybody have informations about the
W 86 C 451 and W 86 C 456 chips (40pin DIL pckg)?
They are build in a multifunction io-card for pc.
Thanks
Dirk
--
------------------------------------------------------------
Dirk Junghanns junghanns@rz.tu-ilmenau.de | 12 |
I "think" you should try linking to /usr/lib/libXmu.a instead of
-lXmu. At least that solved the problem for me!
| 5 |
I wrote in response to dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe):
Was Paul a God too? Is an interpretation of the words of Paul of higher
priority than the direct word of Jesus in Matt5:14-19? Paul begins
Romans 14 with "If someone is weak in the faith ..." Do you count
yourself as one who is weak in the faith?
Yes, but what does the Bible have to say? What did Jesus say? Paul
closes Romans 14 with, "On the other hand, the person with doubts about
something who eats it anyway is guilty, because he isn't acting on his
faith, and any failure to act on faith is a sin." Gaus, ISBN:0-933999-99-2
Have you read the Ten Commandments which are a portion of the Law? Have
you read Jesus' word in Matt5:14-19? Is there any doubt in your mind
about what is right and what is sin (Greek hamartia = missing the mark)?
Whereas, the Ten Commandments and Jesus' words in Matt5:14-19 are fairly
clear, are they not?
Matt5:14-19 doesn't answer your question?
Breaking bread - roughly synonymous with eating.
How do you unite this concept of yours with the Ten Commandments and
Jesus's word in Matt5:14-19?
Or, they assumed that the Ten Commandments and Jesus' word in
Matt5:14-19 actually stood for something? Perhaps they were "strong in
the faith?"
---------------------------
[No, I don't believe that Paul can overrule God. However Paul was
writing for a largely Gentile audience. The Law was regarded by Jews
at the time (and now) as binding on Jews, but not on Gentiles. There
are rules that were binding on all human beings (the so-called Noachic
laws), but they are quite minimal. The issue that the Church had to
face after Jesus' death was what to do about Gentiles who wanted to
follow Christ. The decision not to impose the Law on them didn't say
that the Law was abolished. It simply acknowledged that fact that it
didn't apply to Gentiles. Thus there is no contradiction with Mat 5.
As far as I can tell, both Paul and other Jewish Christians did
continue to participate in Jewish worship on the Sabbath. Thus they
continued to obey the Law. The issue was (and is) with Gentile
Christians, who are not covered by the Law (or at least not by the
ceremonial aspects of it).
Jesus dealt mostly with Jews. I think we can reasonably assume that
Mat 5 was directed to a Jewish audience. He did interact with
Gentiles a few times (e.g. the centurion whose slave was healed and a
couple of others). The terms used to describe the centurion (see Luke
7) suggest that he was a "God-fearer", i.e. a Gentile who followed
God, but had not adopted the whole Jewish Law. He was commended by
Jewish elders as a worthy person, and Jesus accepted him as such.
This seems to me to indicate that Jesus accepted the prevailing view
that Gentiles need not accept the Law.
However there's more involved if you want to compare Jesus and Paul on
the Law. In order to get a full picture of the role of the Law, we
have to come to grips with Paul's apparent rejection of the Law, and
how that relates to Jesus' commendation of the Law. At least as I
read Paul, he says that the Law serves a purpose that has been in a
certain sense superceded. Again, this issue isn't one of the
abolition of the Law. In the middle of his discussion, Paul notes
that he might be understood this way, and assures us that that's not
what he intends to say. Rather, he sees the Law as primarily being
present to convict people of their sinfulness. But ultimately it's an
impossible standard, and one that has been superceded by Christ.
Paul's comments are not the world's clearest here, and not everyone
agrees with my reading. But the interesting thing to notice is that
even this radical position does not entail an abolition of the Law.
It still remains as an uncompromising standard, from which not an iota
or dot may be removed. For its purpose of convicting of sin, it's
important that it not be relaxed. However for Christians, it's not
the end -- ultimately we live in faith, not Law.
While the theoretical categories they use are rather different, in the
end I think Jesus and Paul come to a rather similar conclusion. The
quoted passage from Mat 5 should be taken in the context of the rest
of the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus shows us how he interprets the
Law. The "not an iota or dot" would suggest a rather literal reading,
but in fact that's not Jesus' approach. Jesus' interpretations
emphasize the intent of the Law, and stay away from the ceremonial
details. Indeed he is well known for taking a rather free attitude
towards the Sabbath and kosher laws. Some scholars claim that Mat
5:17-20 needs to be taken in the context of 1st Cent. Jewish
discussions. Jesus accuses his opponents of caring about giving a
tenth of even the most minor herbs, but neglecting the things that
really matter: justice, mercy and faith, and caring about how cups and
plates are cleaned, but not about the fact that inside the people who
use them are full of extortion and rapacity. (Mat 23:23-25) This, and
the discussion later in Mat 5, suggest that Jesus has a very specific
view of the Law in mind, and that when he talks about maintaining the
Law in its full strength, he is thinking of these aspects of it.
Paul's conclusion is similar. While he talks about the Law being
superceded, all of the specific examples he gives involve the
"ceremonial law", such as circumcision and the Sabbath. He is quite
concerned about maintaining moral standards.
The net result of this is that when Paul talks about the Law being
superceded, and Jesus talks about the Law being maintained, I believe
they are talking about different aspects of the Law. Paul is
embroiled in arguments about circumcision. As is natural in letters
responding to specific situations, he's looking at the aspect of the
Law that is currently causing trouble: the Law as specifically Jewish
ceremonies. He certainly does not intend to abolish divine standards
of conduct. On the other hand, when Jesus commends the Law, he seems
to be talking the Law in its broadest implications for morals and
human relationships, and deemphasizing those aspects that were later
to give Paul so much trouble.
It's unfortunate that people use the same terms in different ways, but
we should be familiar with that from current conflicts. Look at the
way terms like "family values" take on special meaning from the
current context. Imagine some poor historian of the future trying to
figure out why "family values" should be used as a code word for
opposition to homosexuality in one specific period in the U.S. I
think Law had taken on a similar role in the arguments Paul was
involved in. Paul was clearly not rejecting all of the Jewish values
that go along with the term "Law", any more than people who concerned
about the "family values" movement are really opposed to family
values. | 15 |
You will need Driver ver 3.5.2 to work with Quadra/Centris. You can download
it from iomega BBS: 1-801-778-4400
-- | 4 |
Hate to wreck your elaborate theory, but Steve Dyer is not an MD.
So professional jealosy over doctors who help their patients with
Nystatin, etc., can't very well come into the picture. Steve
doesn't have any patients.
Yes, everyone who is normal does that. We use candida on the other arm
when we put a tuberculin test on. If people don't react to candida,
we assume the TB test was not conclusive since such people may not
react to anything. All normal people have antibodies to candida.
If not, you would quickly turn into a fungus ball.
You've just discovered one of the requirements for a good quack theory.
Find something that no one can *disprove* and then write a book saying
it is the cause of whatever. Since no one can disprove it, you can
rake in the bucks for quite some time.
That is odd, isn't it? Why do you suppose it is that MDs with these
common problems don't go for these crazy ideas? Does the "professional
jealosy" extend to suffering in silence, even though they know they
could be cured if they just followed this quack book?
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." | 13 |
I have the following Canon items for sale, the condition is listed
as numerical. 10 indicates like new condition.
Canon T70 body (Multiprogram AE, Dual metering system,
build in motor drive etc.) 9-
Canon FD 50mm/F1.8 10
Canon FD 85mm/F1.8 with Canon BT-52 hood 8 (excellent portrait lens)
Osawa 28-50mm/F3.5-4.5 zoom (made in Japan) with soft case 10
Soligor 80-200mm/F4.5 MACRO (1:4) zoom (Japan) with hard case 10
Vivitar SMS30D dedicated thyristor flash in box with manual 10
Asking $350/obo. S&H not included. | 6 |
Okay, I don't use it very much, but I would like for it to keep working
correctly, at least as long as Apple continues to make System software
that will run on it, if slowly :-)
Here is the problem: When the screen is tilted too far back, vertical
lines appear on the screen. They are every 10 pixels or so, and seem
to be affected somewhat by opening windows and pulling down menus.
It looks to a semi-technical person like there is a loose connection
between the screen and the rest of the computer.
I am open to suggestions that do not involve buying a new computer,
or taking this one to the shop. I would also like to not have
to buy one of Larry Pina's books. I like Larry, but I'm not sure
I feel strongly enough about the computer to buy a service manual
for it.
On a related note: what does the monitor connector connect to? | 4 |
I have stated before that I do not consider myself an atheist, but
definitely do not believe in the christian god. The recent discussion
about atheists and hell, combined with a post to another group (to the
effect of 'you will all go to hell') has me interested in the consensus
as to how a god might judge men. As a catholic, I was told that a jew,
buddhist, etc. might go to heaven, but obviously some people do not
believe this. Even more see atheists and pagans (I assume I would be
lumped into this category) to be hellbound. I know you believe only
god can judge, and I do not ask you to, just for your opinions. | 15 |
)Do you know what frequencies chanels 17 to 19 use and what is usually
)allocated to those frequencies for broadcast outside of cable?
17 is air comm.
18 is amateur
19 is business and public service
| 12 |
I agree completely, but there was only a refund for people who bought the GC
with a Quadra. I have seen an alpha version of an extension from Apple called
8.24 GC QuickTime Video which offloads QuickTime compression/decompression
from the cpu to the AM29000 on the card. So it seems it can be done even though
in a developer article it states that the GC can't be programmed - but they
asked that any suggestions be sent in anyway... | 4 |
And in other parts of the world, European "Socialists" would be known as
fascist capitalist pigs. Get your head out of your labels and think carefully
for once:
According to the EFF announcement on this thing, the NSA has been developing
this turkey for *four* years. The manufacturing contract was let *14 months
ago*. Anyone out there who believes that the fact that Clinton's name was
on this White House announcement means that Bush or any other Republican is
a staunch supporter of personal privacy is a fool. | 11 |
Who wants to look through the bars at some reactionary Liberal conspiracy-
theory idiots and see how they rant and rave at the erosion of their populist
support? This is very typical of the elitist Liberal attitude that The People
are incapable of thinking for themselves. This elitist attitude will be the
eventual undoing of the arrogant liberal tide sweeping America, as The People
begin to realize more and more that they are being treated like errant children
and robbed of their freedoms by a bunch of Utopian arrogent socialist jerks.
Although I find myself often disagreeing with the populist rationale
of Mr. Limbaugh, I find him entertaining and I often agree with his
conclusions. The fact that he sends liberal reactionaries like these
idiots through the roof makes him all the more entertaining.
Actually, I find Limbaugh's oratory less than sizzling and his debating
skills sometimes lacking, even though his conclusions are often correct.
I would suggest that a bankrupt leftist ideology that hopes to use concentrated
political power and a loaded gun to force everyone to do the "right" things
(where "right" is defined by the elitist academics who lead the movement)
is showing an acute case of "myopic social perspective", not to mention
arrogance and utter stupidity.
Limbaugh is certainly far from perfect, but his opponents in the established
body politic and the media are the ones arguing for Federal control of
virtually all aspects of the lives of the Citizenry, and for the elimination
of local control over Affairs Public.
Perhaps Limbaugh has a following because The People are tired of being treated
like errant children by a self-important group of arrogant controlling myopic
people who have no understanding of how life operates outside of the "oughta-be's"
inside their own hopelessly closed minds.
OK, let us take your word for that and work with it. A nice specific
incident.
Hmmm, "Congress shall pass no law regarding an establishment of religion,
nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Liberal translation: "the
federal government (as long as it is run by Liberals) may force local
school districts to include certain iconic content in Christmas displays,
while prohibiting others."
I think Limbaugh has you on this one. It seems to me that he is arguing
for LESS imposition of the federal government into religion.
Nice job on the specificity of that one, too.
[Analysis of historical/modern communication media deleted]
Ah yes, it is a conspiracy of profound proportions. Methinks that you
may be a bit resentful of Mr. Limbaugh's success because you attribute it
primarily to luck (how, after all, could anyone with profound differences
of opinion from yourself have become successful without the operation of
conspiracy or blind luck!) Do you feel this same level of knee-jerk
resentment against lottery winners, or do you congratulate them on their
good fortune?
This should be great fun, since it is the Liberal movement in America
that is pushing the hardest for centralized fascist control of The People
and business (government/business 'partnership' indeed), and Mr. Limbaugh
is the populist nemesis of that movement.
I have read Mr. Limbaugh's book, and although it was not the most literary
piece I have read in recent memory it certainly did not contain "venom"
at all, let alone "venom" comparable to an individual who callously murdered
millions out of racism.
A very serious tone in that oratory.
You neglect to mention that Mr. Limbaugh (have you ever listened to his show,
BTW?) continuously encourages his audience to think for themselves rather
than blindly following any media icon, himself included. You yourself mention
that he makes no bones about his show being strictly about his own opinions.
He also adopts a rather satirical approach, and presumes his audience to be
intelligent enough to distinguish satire from seriousness (and he says as much).
This is in contrast to the average mass-media show, in which the audience is
treated as society's intellectual lowest common denominator.
I am sure that Adolf Hitler was a master of satire; I am sure he was just
kidding when he said that the Jews were the cause of Germany's problems and
needed to be exterminated.
This is not religion, it is clearly a perverse worship of race. Since
Christ was a Jew, it seems quite unlikely that Hitler's characterization of
the Aryan as "the highest image of the Lord" fits with Christian doctrine.
Private religious schools have a vastly better record of success than
publicly funded schools. American history is indeed primarily Judeo-
Christian. I suppose that Mr. Limbaugh pointing out facts is equivalent
to Adolf Hitler worshiping the Aryan race. I think you might be reaching
just a wee bit here.
Definite suggestion that the government should control the entertainment
industry here.
Just a guess here, but I don't think that Mr. Limbaugh would advocate
government control of Hollywood. You should perhaps call his radio show
to confirm this. I believe this is more a criticism of Hollywood and the
depraved moral values it espouses, not an advocation of government control
of Hollywood.
90's Liberals, on the other hand, want to have complete government control
of our school systems, so that the government can teach The People at an
early age the "right" way to view religion and morality. I believe Mr.
Limbaugh is against this, as his satirical use of the "young heads full
of mush" hyperbole indicates.
Pretty strong conspiracy theory insinuated here, with an implicit plea for
government power to be used to break up the conspiracy.
Indication here that "Elements of the Media" (since career is a self-selected
categorization, perhaps an inferred 'larger percentage than represented in
the populace at large') has a leftist bias. Doesn't sound too unreasonable.
No insinuation that CNN should not report in an objective fashion, only
that for reporters to say that they do not have any personal bias in the
situation is disingenuous to megalomaniacal.
You may disagree, and it may well be exagerrated, but it is not an unreasonable
opinion; and Mr. Limbaugh goes well out of his way to make sure that his
audience knows that these are his opinions, unlike most other reporting that
purports to achieve perfect objectivity but in actuality will in some degree
or other, in a statistical sense, reflect the biases of the reporters. Who
is being disingenuous here, Mr. Shaw or Mr. Limbaugh?
Again, you should ask Mr. Limbaugh himself, but I expect that he would
oppose government control of the media.
It is indeed depressing to see such myopia and tiresome Liberal arrogance.
Liberals love to play games with paradigms as a way of discrediting people
who disagree with them. Why don't you challenge conservative ideology
on an intellectual level rather than engaging in ludicrous comparisons?
Perhaps the underpinnings of your ideology are intellectual only in that
they exist in your mind, not the real world.
Perhaps there are a few among the intellectually challenged who percieve
Rush Limbaugh as a hate-monger, but in my experience he has been spreading
laughter at the ludicrous self-importance of the Left, not hatred.
As to Mr. Bush, you may be correct about his fascist economic leanings.
Mr. Reagan, on the other hand, did his best to reverse the fascist trend
of government involvement in business. Mr. Clinton is increasing fascism
in America through "business/government partnership" and increased levels
of taxation. Perhaps you should not have skipped your vocabulary classes
in grade school.
Hmmm. Seems to me that Limbaugh is not in any way comparable to Hitler
because he has not murdered six million Jews and many, many others out of
racism. I come from a mixed-race family, so I am quite well attuned to
racism; I don't hear any coming from Rush Limbaugh. The only place I hear
racism coming from these days and being taken seriously is from the Liberal
Left.
The Liberal Left is the movement I see trying to get America hooked
on the opiates of Socialized Medicine, Socialized Transportation, Socialized
Education, etc. The Left already has America hopelessly addicted to
that Liberal drug, the Social Security Chain Letter. It is quite clear
to me that while the Hitler analogy does not really apply to either Rush
Limbaugh or William Jefferson Clinton, if one of the two is closer than
the other it is clearly the Fascist Clinton.
This is the same address as "Idiots Anonymous", isn't it?
Matt Freivald
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
LiBORGalism:
THINKING IS IRRELEVANT. INTEGRITY IS IRRELEVANT.
FREE SPEECH IS IRRELEVANT. PRIVATE PROPERTY IS IRRELEVANT.
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS IRRELEVANT.
CONSERVATIVISM IS FUTILE.
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
THESE ARE MY OPINIONS ONLY AND NOT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 18 |
I am trying to get a copy of the _official_ rules of baseball.
Someone once sent me the ISBN number of it, but I have since lost it.
Can anyone give me this information, or tell me where I can find the
book? None of my local bookstores have it. | 9 |
Foolish me. And here I thought it had something to do with the
fact that they were hitting against Wakefield, who had no "kncukle"
to his ball that day, and Otto, who has no stuff. I wonder if
Reggie gave the same pep talk and instruction to the rest of the
lineup, who also suddenly came alive those two games.
-- The Beastmaster
| 9 |
un, you better add at least another plus to the Pederson
for Neely trade, the Bruins also received a number 1 round
draft pick, didn't play great this year but Wesley's still a
decent defenseman.... And the Bruins got Pederson back eventually
anyway.....
Pat Ellis
P.S. GO BRUINS GO UMAINE BLACK BEARS 42-1-2 NUMBER 1......
HOCKEY EAST REGULARS SEASON CHAMPIONS.....
HOCKEY EAST TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS>......
PAUL KARIYA, HOBEY BAKER AWARD WINNER.......
NCAA DIV. 1 HOCKEY TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| 10 |
I don't understand the fascination with vent windows. They create a tremendous
turbulence and noise that makes even a simple connversation impossible at
speeds above 40mph. The current flow-throuh ventilation, if designed right,
are far more superior. | 7 |
I've just read Carol's response and I just had to get into this. I've
got some verses which are not subject to interpretation because they say
what they say. They are 2 Peter 1:20-21, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, and
Galatians 1:11-12.
Also, based on the fact that Jesus is the Word incarnate and he judges
people if they follow him (see Acts 17:29-31 and John 5:21-27) and that
those who reject Jesus' teachings are judged by the very words he spoke
(see John 12:47-50), then Jesus' words are true and do not need
interpretation, nor would it be just of God to judge based on his word
if it had to be interpreted. | 15 |
The only ether I see here is the stuff you must
have been breathing before you posted...
| 14 |
You may also want to buy a 'self injector' or something like that.
My friend is diabetic. You load the hyperdermic, put it in a plastic case
and set a spring to automatically push the needle into the skin and depress
the plunger.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Live From New York, It's SATURDAY NIGHT... | 13 |
So what should I carry if I want to comply with intelligent helmet laws?
(The above comment in no way implies support for any helmet law, nor should
such support be inferred. A promise is a promise.) | 8 |
There is something going on here. It seems that once a month, the VW
group must have get a specific detailed question about Hondas. I
would like to ask that next month we get one about Hyundai instead of
Honda. Thank you. | 7 |
Two questions:
1: I'm trying to figure out how to access cmos advanced chip setting on a
EISA motherboard (AIR) that has AMI bios..specifically I would like to set
the atclk or wait states or bus speed on this board, I can't seem to be
able to do it..any help in this area would be greatly appreciated.
2: I am looking for a phone number for WANGTEK tape drives, specifically I
am looking for jumper settings on a 5099EN24 drive.. | 3 |
Didn't you hear? His address has changed. He can be reached at the
following address:
dkoresh@branch.davidian.compound.waco.tx.us
I think he was last seen posting to alt.messianic.
Jim | 0 |
Not just because of the riflemen. They also have many hard bunkers in
the mountains that would be nearly impossible to penetrate. As for
tanks, they would be rather useless in such mountainous terrain.
Gee, that's a new one. He thought it was a different ethnic group.
Since Hitler was determined to control, at the least, all of Europe,
do you think he gave a damn about international monetary concerns?
Also, there's a LOT of gold in Swiss vaults. Don't you think he new
that? If he could have, he would have taken Switzerland. However,
crazy as he was, he wasn't totally stupid. It would have cost him a
hell of a lot to take Switzerland, with no guarantee that an invasion
would be successful. He probably figured (or his generals did, when
he was listening to them) that it wasn't worth the cost. | 16 |
Really? What makes you think the Islanders have a better shot? They
couldn't even beat the Whalers in two games!
(Well, since you're a Pens fans the whole question is moot. I think
the teams most likely to beat the Pens are the Bruins, Nordiques, and
Blackhawks but I don't think they can really do it. :-)) | 10 |
I look at zApp and really liked it. However, I think you should
wait for version 2.0 (I think it will be out soon). | 2 |
[ etc. ]
Hey, he's the only manager so far to lead the Seattle Mariners to a
winning season, out of, what, fifteen? Give him some credit for that.
-- dave
--
/''' The Machman machman@u.washington.edu david c carroll
c-OO
\ "Big Science. Hallelujah" | 9 |
Do YOU eat all your food cold?
-- | 16 |
: I've been thinking about how difficult it would be to make PGP available
: in some form on EBCDIC machines.
Don't encourage them. Let EBCDIC machines die an honorable death :) | 11 |
Give out the address, I'll drive by and take a look myself, then post.
| 7 |
Power lines and airplanes don't mix. In areas where lines are strung very
high, or where a lot of crop dusting takes place, or where there is danger
of airplanes flying into the lines, they place these plastic balls on the
lines so they are easier to spot.
| 12 |
I think you are too optimistic! PostScript is a very big language and
so the fig format can not be able to be an interpreter of ANY arbitrary
ps code. The only program I know to manipulate PostScript files is
IslandDraw.
I for myself use xfig and include the PostScript files (converted to
epsi format). Small changes then are possible (erasing some letters,
adding text and so on).
Reinhard
| 1 |
:
: THE HAMAS WAY of DEATH
:
: (Following is a transcript of a recruitment and training
: videotape made last summer by the Qassam Battalions, the military
As opposed to Israel's many ways of death. Using bombers and artillery
against Lebanese towns and villages. Using fire arms and lethal
variants of tear gas and *rubber coated* bullets against stone
throwers. Using tanks and anti-tank missiles against homes after a 5
minute evacuation warning. Using Shin Bit's "reasonable" physical
pressure in interrogation. And more. Not counting of course past
practices such as the bombardment of Beirut in 1982, the bombing of the
Egyptian school of Bahr-El-Bakar and the Abu-Za'bal factory in 1978,
the downing of the Libyan airliner full of Egyptian passengers near
the same time. Overseeing the Maronite massacre in Sabra and Shatilla.
That is of course besides numerous massacres by Irgun and other gangs
during the British mandate period.
Ironically the same Op-Ed page in the NYT times from which the Naftaly
copied this article was running another article next to it by A.M.
Rosenthall blaming Bosnian Muslims for their own genocide by effectively
saying that it is stupid to seek independence if independence will bring
your people slaughter. But what else would one expect from Mr. Rosenthall
who never wasted a chance to bash Arabs or Muslims. | 17 |
I really like these claims. Where did they come from? We hear,
practically daily, that the NSA monitors, oh, everything. They can
crack anything. They'd never release a cryptosystem they couldn't crack.
Where do people get these fascinating facts? 'The Puzzle Palace'?
If you can get it for a buck, 2nd hand, it must be true, eh? I'm pretty
sure the NSA is supposed to, among many other things, provide high-quality
cryptosystems to a variety of places. I don't recall reading anywhere
reliable that they're supposed to:
1) Monitor my phonecalls.
2) Monitor usenet.
3) Provide only cryptosystems they can easily crack.
4) etc etc.
This is not to say that they *don't*, they might. But you don't
know that they do, and you have no evidence that they do, for almost
all values of you. It follows, therefore, that for most values of 'you',
your claims about the NSA border on paranoia. | 11 |
one i saw had vented rears too...it was on a lot.
of course, the sales man was a fool..."titanium wheels"..yeah, right..
then later told me they were "magnesium"..more believable, but still
crap, since Al is so m uch cheaper, and just as good....
i tend to agree, tho that this still doesn't take the SHO up to "standard"
for running 130 on a regular basis. The brakes should be bigger, like
11" or so...take a look at the ones on the Corrados.(where they have
braking regulations). | 7 |
Is Kratz claiming that he can reliably visually distinguish an M-16
from an AR-15? That he can see the difference between a semi-auto and
a full-auto UZI? That he can see the difference between the various
versions (some full-auto, some semi-auto only) of the M-11/9?
If so, I'd love to hear the details, if only because they'll demonstrate
that Kratz is blowing smoke.
Considering that one can design a gun so that it looks just like
another gun, yet have very different properties, and that that's
quite common....
Most kids in my neighborhood were quite young when they figured out
that my parents car wasn't much like Richard Petty's, even though it
looked just like it (except for the paint job). Things must have been
different with Kratz.
No, it doesn't, but that's irrelevant. If visual inspection of the
outside worked, TV would be acceptable, but since it doesn't, the fact
that it's just as good as seeing in person doesn't mean much.
-andy gave Kratz a chance to back down on this in private | 16 |
Basically, there are two algorithms determining whether a point is inside,
outside or on the polygon. The first one is Ray (or half line) method. In
this method, you can draw any ray, if the number of the intersection point
of the ray and the polygon is even, then it is outside. If the number is odd,
then it is inside. Of cause, you have to deal with the special cases which
may make you headache.
The second method is PI algorithm. Draw the lines between the point and
all the vertices on the polygon. Calculate and sum the angles of the
successive lines. If the result is 2*PI, then it is inside. If PI, then
it is on the polygon. Otherwise it is outside.
My experience tells the second method is relible.
Hope this helps. | 1 |
:
: nobody seems to have noticed that the clipper chip *must* have been
: under development for considerably longer than the 3 months that
: clinton has been president. this is not something that choosing
: choosing bush over clinton would have changed in the slightest; it has
: been in the works for some time.
Actually, many of us have noted this. We have noted that the program
started at least 4 years ago, that the contracts with VLSI Technology
and Microtoxin were let at least 14 months ago, that production of the
chips is well underway, and so forth.
Nobody I know has claimed Clinton intitiated the program. But he chose
to go ahead with it.
-Tim May | 11 |
Please could someone in the US give me the current street
prices on the following, with and without any relevant taxes:
8 Mb 72 pin SIMM
16 Mb 72 pin SIMM (both for Mac LC III)
Are any tax refunds possible if they are to be exported
to the UK? Can you recommend a reliable supplier? | 4 |
10 |
|
Hi,
does anyone have a keyboard map for a Sun UK type 5 keyboard for use under
X11/R5 ?
Thanks,
Nigel.
| 5 |
I wonder if anyone can tell me whether or not I can create a bitmap
of any size? I followed the bitmap creation example in SDK manual
and specified a 24x24 bitmap (set the width/height to 24) and supplied
a byte string with 72 chars. But I just cannot get the right bitmap
image. I changed the width/height to 32x32 and used the same value
string (padded with zero byets to make up to the right size) and
got the image.
The example in the manual is 64x32 size, which are multiple of 2 bytes.
Can you define a bitmap image of any size?
Thanks very much.
G Chen chen@citr.uq.oz.au | 2 |
@>>
@>>Has anyone had any experience with GEICO's extended
@>>warranty plan. It seems to be slightly less expensive than
@>>the normal dealer-sponsored policy.
@>>
@>and once again....*never* buy extended warranties....they are a complete and
@>total ripoff period!!!! you are better off taking your money and putting it
@>
in a bank and using that money for repairs. many extended warranties never
@>pay or have co-payments etc.
@>
How many people will actually put that money in the bank and keep it there for the
sole use of a automotive repair......maybe for people who have a hard time saving
money or don't want the hassle of worrying about paying for everything the
extended warranty is worth it.....for some people it is worth it...others not, and
for some the peace of mind knowing you won't have too many unexpected expenses
is enough.....if you drive a lot, your basic warranty can be up in a little longer than
a year....how many people can make the car payments as well as large repairs....
It may work for some people......
Andrew
-- | 7 |
: [deletions]
:
: > How can you reconcile the administrations self proclaimed purpose of
: > providing law enforcement with access to encrypted data without making
: > the clipper system the only crypto available in the U.S... ?
:
: The Second and Fourth Amendments do come to mind.
:
I think i heard someplace (misc.legal?, comp.org.eff.talk?) that the courts
have pretty much eliminated the fourth amendment already.
| 11 |
A brilliant algorithm. *NOT*
Seriously - it's correct, up to a sign change. The flaw is obvious, and
will therefore not be shown.
sorry about that.
| 1 |
Praise God! I'm writing everyone to inform you that I have been
accepted to the Doctor of Psychology program at Fuller Theological
Seminary in Pasadena, CA. I've been working long and hard to try to
get in there and have said many hours of prayer. I'm very excited for
this opportunity, but also very nervous about it.
I'd appreciate the prayers of the readers of this group for my preparation
for school this summer and for my career as a graduate student. I'd also
appreciate any information any of the readers of this group might have
about Fuller, Pasadena, or California in general, like good places to
have fun, good churches to check out, or anything else that might be
good for me to know. Also, if anyone knows of any foundations that
might have funding or scholarship money available, please let me know!
Of course, if you wish to make a personal contribution.....:)
The contract for my current job is over at the end of April. I'll be
taking a couple classes at UT this summer and then I'll be moving to
Pasadena. Hopefully, I'll be able to get net.access next fall, although
Fuller doesn't have it itself.
I've enjoyed the interesting discussions and I commend everyone for their
earnest search to please God. Thanks to our moderator for providing
such a wonderful service and in doing a great job of running this news
group.
May God bless you all. Vaya con Dios, mi amigas y amigos.
Paul
===============================================================================
Paul Conditt Internet: conditt@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu
Applied Research Phone: (512) 835-3422 FAX: (512) 835-3416/3259
Laboratories Fedex: 10000 Burnet Road, Austin, Texas 78758-4423
University of Texas Postal: P.O. Box 8029, Austin, Texas 78713-8029
Austin, Texas <----- the most wonderful place in Texas to live
| 15 |
Hmmm. Care to be more vague?
| 13 |
Hello everyone.
Last week I posted a similar question to alt.wedding. Now I come in
search of a deeper-level answer.
My fiance is Lutheran and I am Catholic. We plan on getting married in
her church because she is living there now and I plan on moving there
in a month or so. I called my Catholic priest to find out what I needed
to do in order for the marriage to be recognized by my church.
Needless to say that I have found that there is no "hard and fast" rule
when it comes to how the Catholic law for interfaith weddings is interpreted.
But I'm pretty sure that we CAN get married without too much problem; the
trick lies in the letter of dispensation.
But that is not why I am here....
What I'd like to know is:
What are the main differences between the Lutheran and Catholic religions?
My priest mumbled something about how the Eucharist was understood...
I have heard that if two religions combine soon, it would be these two.
Any help would be appreciated...
Thanks so much!
Bill
--
Bill Burns [ Internet: wdburns@mtu.edu ] Mac Network System Administrator
[ AppleLink: SHADOW ] Apple Student Rep, MTU
First we must band together as friends,
then mearcilessly crush our enemies into paste. | 15 |
Is there any FAQ list for Programming in X windows? | 5 |
The following jazz magazines will go for the best
OFFER received. Shipping not included, these are
pretty heavy. Of course if you are local (Mass, USA)
you can come get 'em in person. All are in GREAT
condition!! These will go as one lot. I will not
break them up.
Metronome - Sep 1947, Feb 1948, June 1948,
Nov 1950, Dec 1950, June 1952
Nov 1953
Downbeat - Jan 15,1947 (was newspaper sized..folded)
Jan 18,1962, Feb 15,1962, Dec 19,1963,
Mar 12,1964, Apr 9,1964, May 7,1964,
May 21,1964, Jun 4,1964, Jul 16,1964,
Sep 10,1964, Dec 17,1964, Dec 31,1964,
Aug 26,1965, Oct 7,1965, Oct 21,1965,
Dec 16,1965, Dec 30,1965, Jan 13,1966,
Apr 21,1966, Jul 28,1966, Sep 8,1966,
Dec 29,1966, Feb 9,1967, Feb 23,1967,
Jun 15,1967, Nov 15,1967, Apr 4,1968,
Aug 8,1968, Sep 5,1968, Oct 3,1968,
Oct 31,1968, Feb 6,1969, Mar 6,1969,
May 15,1969, Jun 12,1969, Jul 10,1969,
Jul 24,1969, Aug 21,1969, Sep 4,1969,
Dec 2,1969, May 14,1970, May 28,1970,
Jun 11,1970, Jun 25,1970, Jul 9,1970,
Aug 19,1971, Mar 15,1973, Mar 29,1973,
May 10,1973, May 24,1973, Nov 1985
Also I will toss in (free):
Jazz Journal (Feb 1979,Apr 1979) and
CODA Magazine (Jun 1985, Dec 1985)
| 6 |
I wrote :
Nice strawman indeed. The discussion is not about whether there were
tanks
used in sixties riots; instead, it is about whether those tanks fired
their
main guns in one of those riots. You claim they did. That claim is
ludicrous.
Awesley replied:
I repeated what I had been told, under what context I had heard it,
supporting the claim that tanks were indeed used in Detroit in 67.
The issue has never been whether tanks were used in Detroit in 1967. It
has been whether they fired their main guns. You did not merely claim that
tanks were used--you claimed that they fired their main guns to suppress
sniper fire and that they were "quite" effective at this. You continue to
back away from this claim and defend something else that nobody is
disputing.
Awesley went on:
I
spent a few minutes in a library today -- found their computer was
down and they don't have a card catalog. Anyway, it took about 10
minutes to find this in _Nightmare in Detroit, A Rebellion and It's
Victims_ by Sauter and Hines, on page 133, telling of the death of
Tonia Blanding, age 4.
"When the tank was fired upon by snipers it turned in the direction
the shots came from. [...] the fifty-caliber machine gun mounted on the
tank belched fire into the buildings. After a short round into the front
of the buildings, the tank guns spit again, tearing apart huge holes out
of the side of the apartment."
Well, it's not the main gun.
"Well, it's not the main gun." Gee, that's only the entire point. Are you
now going to admit that you were wrong?
will I see any pictures of tanks firing their main
guns? Will I see pictures of buildings damaged by the shells? Will I
read
the reports of the tank fire? I'll bet you dollar to doughnuts I won't.
It will take more than second-hand accounts from a few old National Guard
sergeants shooting the shit to convince me that tanks shelled American
cities in the Sixties.
Awesley replied:
Well, if you bothered to read them, it wouldn't take long at all to
find reports of tank * fire * -- although not necessarily of the main
guns.
I will never read of tanks firing their main guns in Detroit in the '67
riots. There is simply no way that such an event could have taken place
without it being common knowledge even 26 years later. The American
military firing shells from tanks in American cities on blacks would have
been *big* news.
Awesley goes on:
You can also read of the troops using grenade launchers.
To fire fragmentary grenades? I doubt that as well. To fire concussion
grenades? Perhaps. To fire tear gas? Certainly. But you would be
perfectly willing to let us believe they fired frags, wouldn't you, since
it makes your other claim seem more plausible.
And on:
I don't
expect to convince you; you'll have to open your mind and eyes and
actually
do a little research to be convinced one way or the other. Let me know
what you find.
I already know what you found: nothing. If I claimed that the Marines used
F-4s to launch rockets at buildings in Trenton, New Jersey would you
believe me? Would you suspend judgment until you had a chance to research
it? Or would your bullshit filters kick in?
If tanks had fired their main guns in Detroit, people would have been
screaming about it for the past two and half decades. I would know about
it. Unless you also claim that the National Guard managed to cover it up.
If your mind is open enough to believe that, well, good for you. I prefer
to live in reality. And here in reality, I find it hard to believe that
those tanks even had any shells, much less fired them. | 16 |
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